HC Deb 29 April 1902 vol 107 cc287-332

Standing Order No. 17 read—

"That no Motion for the Adjournment of the House shall be made until all the Questions on the Notice Paper have been disposed of, and no such Motion shall be made before the Orders of the Day or Notices of Motion have been entered upon, except by leave of the House unless a Member rising in his place shall propose to move the Adjournment for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, and not less than forty Members shall thereupon rise in their places to support the Motion; or unless, if fewer than forty Members and not less than ten shall thereupon rise in their places, the House shall, on a division, upon Question put forthwith, determine whether such Motion shall be made."

(2.15.) MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I beg to move the Amendment standing in my name. I accept the Amendment of my hon. friend the Member for King's Lynn, viz., to omit, in line 1, the words "allowed to be."

Amendment proposed to the Standing-Order— In line 2, to leave out the words 'on the Notice Paper,' and insert the words 'asked at the commencement of business at the afternoon sitting.'"—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question proposed—" That the words 'on the Notice Paper' stand part of the Standing Order."

MR. BRYCE

said he thought the right hon. Gentleman had risen to move the adjournment of the debate. They had now reached an hour which, he was sure, anyone who had heard the answer of the right hon. Gentleman to his Question in the early part of the sitting would not have expected to be exceeded. They had completed a very difficult Rule, on which a great number of intricate and unexpected Questions had arisen, which were debated with perfect good humour and good temper. The right hon Gentleman had met them in a similar spirit, and, confessedly, the Rule was much improved, and no one could say that the discussion of it was either futile or needless. Now the right hon. Gentleman was asking the House, at a time when they were unable to give attention to difficult Questions, to enter upon the consideration of a highly contentious and important Rule, which would require a number of hours, if properly discussed. He could not believe that the right hon. Gentleman, after the conciliatory spirit he had displayed earlier in the evening, would wish by the simple force of his majority to put this Rule through without proper discussion. Therefore, he ventured to appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to allow the discussion to come to a close. The right hon. Gentleman asked some time ago whether an arrangement might be made under which the remaining Rules in the block could be passed on Thursday. It was impossible to give a positive undertaking of that kind, for the reason that they did not know until they began to discuss the Rules what latent difficulties and pitfalls might be in them. There was no desire whatever to unduly prolong discussion upon them. The right hon. Gentleman must perceive that there was nothing to be gained by undue discussion of the Rules. The discussion of the Rules which had been disposed of had resulted in their being considerably improved, and, therefore, it was not because he anticipated any unduly prolonged discussion on the remaining Rules, but merely because he did not think it possible before they had entered on the Rules to know how long they would take or what unforeseen difficulties might arise, that he felt that such a pledge could not be given to the right hon. Gentleman. He believed that it would be in the interest of the smooth passage of the Rules and of the form in which they would ultimately emerge, which was a matter of just as much importance on one side as on the other, if the right hon. Gentleman would now consent to adjourn the debate. He therefore begged to move that the debate be now adjourned.

Motion made, and Question proposed—" That the debate be now adjourned."—(Mr. Bryce.)

MR. A. J. BALFOUE

said he really found some difficulty in following the observations of the light hon. Gentleman. The right hon. Gentleman had been good enough to say that he had shown a conciliatory spirit in the earlier part of the evening. He trusted that a conciliatory spirit was the spirit he should always show with reference to matters in this House. When he asked, an hour and a half ago, if there was any reasonable prospect of finishing the Rules on Thursday, he was met with a blank indication of refusal. The House would believe him when he said that he was unable to understand how the House could profitably spend more than Thursday in discussing what now remained of the present block of Rules. There were some matters to be raised on private business, but apart from that all the critical points in the Rules forming the block had been disposed of. That was his sincere opinion, and when he expressed it to the House it was in the hope and expectation that a reasonable prospect might be hold out of finishing the remaining Rules in the block on Thursday. He thought he would have been met in a corresponding spirit. Therefore, he felt bound to ask the House to deal with the single point raised in the Amendment to the next Rule, which was not a new Standing Order. There was really only one point of substance to be decided, namely, whether a Motion for the adjournment should be taken at an evening sitting or at a morning sitting, and in his opinion that would take only a very short space of time, though of course he should be very glad to put it off until Thursday if he had any hope held out to him or any indication given to him that it would not be made the excuse for continuing the discussion over Thursday. He must therefore ask the House to proceed with the discussion, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would not press his Motion to a division.

MR. BRYCE

said he had expressed no opinion as to whether the remaining Rules would he got through on Thursday or not. He only said that bearing in mind the difficulties which had unexpectedly arisen in connection with other Rules, he was unable to give the undertaking for which the right hon. Gentleman had asked.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said he did not ask for a pledge. 'He could assure the right hon. Gentleman that he only asked for a general understanding that there should be an endeavour to pass the remaining Rules in the block on Thursday. Even when an indefinite pledge of that kind was given by hon. Members below the gangway, he had always found it had been kept, and he should have been glad to accept even a pledge in that indefinite form.

MR. JOHN REDMOND

said he really thought that the light hon. Gentleman—quite unintentionally, of course—had misrepresented what took place. He distinctly understood the right hon. Gentleman to ask for what amounted to an understanding on their part that Thursday would see the end of this block of Rules. The right hon. Gentleman rightly acknowledged that when any understanding was arrived at between the Government and the Irish Members it was always carefully observed, and it was because he was afraid that the right hon. Gentleman might have been misled, that he intervened at once and said that the suggestion of his hon. friend did not include an undertaking—he thought he used that word—that the Rules would be finished on Thursday night. If the right hon. Gentleman had simply asked that they would not obstruct the Rules, that would have been an entirely different thing. They had not, in any sense, obstructed the Rules, and the practical result of the discussions was to bring about very serious Amendments in all the Rules which had been passed. No one could say that there had been any serious attempt at obstruction, and if the right hon. Gentleman had said to him, "I will agree to the adjournment if you will give me an assurance that the discussion of the remaining Rules will not be unduly prolonged," he would have given him that undertaking. But he understood the right hon. Gentleman to ask for an undertaking that the Irish Members would be a party to closing the discussion on Thursday night, whether the Rules had been adequately discussed or not. He was not in a position to give that undertaking, and thereupon the right hon. Gentleman insisted on having an hour and a half of useless discussion. He did not agree with the right hon. Gentleman that there was no point of real importance in the Rules still remaining to be discussed in this block. He thought that the Rule they were now invited to discuss with reference to the right of moving the adjournment of the House, which was one of the few opportunities which remained to Irish Members to raise discussions in the House—a right which was to be seriously diminished—was of such importance as to make it impossible that it could be adequately discussed at this hour in the morning. There was also the Rule with reference to Private Business, which ought to be carefully scrutinised and adequately discussed, and he was not at all sure that those matters could be adequately discussed in the time at their disposal on Thursday. He did not know why the right hon. Gentleman wished to confine the debate to Thursday. Was it his anxiety that Friday should be devoted to the consideration of an important private Member's measure dealing with the ice cream traffic in Scotland? He should not complain if the right hon. Gentleman took Friday for the Rules, and it seemed to him more reasonable that a full day's discussion on Thursday and on Friday might conceivably afford a sufficient opportunity for adequately discussing the remaining Rules in the block. He did not know why the right hon. Gentleman laid such stress on Thursday. If the right hon. Gentleman adjourned now he could commence a reasonable discussion on the remaining Rules on Thursday, with the assurance that they did not intend to offer anything in the nature of friction or obstruction, and, if he were unable to finish on Thursday, let him sacrifice the ice-cream traffic in Scotland and take Friday. It seemed to him that the right hon. Gentleman's attitude was thoroughly unreasonable, and he would appeal to him in his own interest not to remain obdurate but to accept the suggestion that had been made.

MR. CHAPLIN

said that he thought the impasse which had arisen was the result of a misconception. He himself understood that what his right hon. friend had asked for was not an undertaking but an understanding that the whole of the present block of Rules should be completed on Thursday, but it would be impossible on the spur of the moment to enter into any such arrangement as that. His right hon. friend knew that there were three or four Rules which had been partially dealt with, and which remained to be completed, and that many important matters remained to be discussed on the other Rules. With regard to the Rule as to the adjournment of the House, he was not looking at it from the present time point of view, but he was looking forward to the time, he believed with some wisdom, for it was sure to happen sooner or later, when Members now sitting on that side of the House would be sitting on the other side, and then the Rule would be a matter of the most supreme importance. The right hon. Gentleman said that apart from private business really very little more required to be done, but, surely private business in its present position was a question of enormous importance, and they ought not to be asked to pledge themselves to deal with it in one day's sitting in addition to a, number of other matters. Personally, he could say that in the course of his career he had never obstructed business, and that he had taken part in the discussion of these Rules not from any motive of obstruction. He thought that the right hon. Gentleman would act wisely in his own interest and in the interest of his Party and of good feeling in the House if he accepted the Motion for the adjournment. It was really the first occasion in his recollection that a Minister had ever attempted to force a change of procedure down the throats of the House of Commons. When Mr. Gladstone made his great changes in procedure, although the proposals were introduced earlier in the session than had been done on the present occasion, their consideration was not completed until the following October, notwithstanding the fact that they were far less numerous than those now proposed. He hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would come to some arrangement, and not enter upon what was bound to he a more or less controversial subject at half-past two in the morning, when no necessity whatever could be shown for so extreme a course.

(2.32.) MR. DILLON

could not understand the extreme tenderness of the First Lord with regard to Thursday. While there was no intention of unduly protracting the discussion on Thursday, he failed to see why, if necessary, the consideration of the Rules could not he continued on Friday. In view of the character of the remainder of the Rules it was impossible for anyone to give an undertaking—if they intended honestly to abide by it, as the Irish had always done—that the discussion should he concluded on Thursday at a reasonable hour. Whether or not that end was achieved depended entirely upon the spirit and manner in which hon. Members were met by the First Lord. It was very likely, if the discussion proceeded on Thursday on the same lines as had been the case on the last two nights, the Rules would be finished by common consent. But if a different spirit was shown and no concessions made, the debate would necessarily be prolonged. It was impossible to conduct a discussion of this kind without irritation and the use of the closure unless, there was give and take on both sides. When, earlier in the proceedings, the First Lord made a considerable concession, the suggestion was immediately made that, in recognition of that con cession, the further discussion on the Rule——

MR. SPEAKER

I do not think this is really relevant to the question of adjournment.

MR. DILLON

said he would not pursue the point. He would simply remind the Government that it was never too late to mend, and urge them, in the interests of the progress of business on Thursday, and in order that the consideration of the Rules might be concluded in the same temper that had hitherto obtained, to consent to the adjournment. He had never known a similar discussion to be conducted with such good temper as, on the whole, the present had been, and the right hon. Gentleman would be well-advised in now allowing Members to go home to bed.

MR. LOUGH

trusted the First Lord would be satisfied with the assurances he had received. Undoubtedly, there was some misunderstanding at a quarter past one, but the right hon. Gentleman had now obtained, both from hon. Members sitting behind him as well as from Gentlemen on the Opposition side, every promise that be could fairly expect. He had been assured that there would be no obstruction, and that very likely the Rules would be finished on Thursday—at any rate, that the discussion would be carried on with every disposition to get the Rules through if possible. The First Lord should also remember his statement at the commencement of the proceedings that it was not intended to sit far into the night. It was now twenty minutes to three o'clock, and nobody could deny that good work had been done.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

desired to join in the appeal which had been made. It was well known that he was no friend of these new Rules, but it would be acknowledged that he had discussed them not in any spirit of obstruction, and that he had on many occasions assisted the Government as far as he could, and made appeals, which had not been ineffective, to hon. Members to refrain from dividing the House or further pressing matters. The Rules which remained were extremely important. Many very debatable questions were involved, and, if not properly debated, the Rules would inevitably lead to horrible confusion. It would be far better to give extra time to the consideration of the Rules now, than to run the risk of their breaking down hereafter. Some of the Rules were almost equivalent to an Act of Parliament, in the amount of detailed consideration they required, and nobody could say with certainty that the whole of the remaining proposals could be disposed of in one day. If the right hon. Gentleman could not give Friday to the Rules, why not give Monday? The Leader of the House came down with twenty-four proposals: of those twenty-four some twelve were to be persevered in; of those twelve some of the most important yet remained to be dealt with.

MR. SPEAKER

The remarks of the hon Gentleman hardly touch the question of adjournment.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

said that personally he should suffer considerably if the sitting was continued, because at two o'clock he had to attend the Public Accounts Committee, and, before that hour he must prepare himself for the duty he had then to discharge by going through the accounts. It would be a pity if, after the manner in which the debate had been conducted, instead of separating in an amiable and friendly spirit, Members went away with any feeling of animosity.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said it was very difficult to carry out the views of hon. Gentlemen, because they were so indefinite. The interpretation given by the hon. Member for West Islington of the remarks which had fallen from both sides of the House was that the Rules might be got through, though Members could not pledge themselves to that result. If anything approaching that had been said an hour and a half ago, or if he had understood it to be said—he did not think it was said—they might have been in bed by this time. Unless they came to that point he did not see how they could do anything but go on.

MR. FLYNN

said it was most unreasonable to insist on proceeding with the consideration of a fresh Rule when Members were naturally tired and fatigued after a long day's work. The ordinary Wednesday sitting was to commence at noon: was no regard to be paid to the officials of the House? If the right hon. Gentleman had met Members in a proper spirit, there was every reason to believe that satisfactory progress would have been made on Thursday.

MR. MACVEAGH

appealed to the First Lord of the Treasury in regard to the hardships which would be inflicted upon the officials of the House by the adoption of this course. [Cries of "Divide, divide."] From his own standpoint he had no wish to prolong the sitting, for he had been at work since 10.80. He was a teetotaler himself, and he had not had as many refreshments as some hon. Gentlemen opposite. [Ministerial cries of "Order, order!"]

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member must keep to the question.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place, and claimed to move—"That the Question be now put."

(2.48.) Question put—" That the Question be now put."

The House divided:—Ayes, 161; Noes, 92. (Division List No. 153.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F. Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor.) Fisher, William Hayes
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. Forster, Henry William
Anson, Sir William Reynell Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r Galloway, William Johnson
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Chapman, Edward Gardner, Ernest
Arkwright, John Stanhope Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Collings, Rt. Hon Jesse Gordon Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn)
Arrol, Sir William Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready Gore, tin. GRC. Ormsby-(Salop
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Goschen, Hn. George Joachim
Bain, Colonel James Robert Compton, Lord Alwyne Green, Walford D. (Wednesbr'y
Balcarres, Lord Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r Corbett, T. L. (Down, North.) Gretton, John
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Cranborne, Viscount Greville, Hon. Ronald
Balfour, Rt.Hn. Gerald W (Leeds Dalkeith, Earl of Groves, James Grimble
Beckett, Ernest William Denny, Colonel Hambro, Charles Eric
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Dickson, Charles Scott Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G (Midd'x
Bignold, Arthur Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.
Blundell, Colonel Henry Doughty, George Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Hay, Hon. Claude George
Brassey, Albert Doxford, Sir William Theodore Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.
Brymer, William Ernest Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Higginbottom, S. W.
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs) Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brights'de
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. Finch, George H. Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry
Johnston, William (Belfast) Melville, Beresford Valentine Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G. Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Molesworth, Sir Lewis Smith, H. C. (North'd. Tyneside
Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Smith, James Parker (Lanarks
Keswick, William Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Knowles, Lees More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) Spear, John Ward
Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Morgan, David J (W'lthamstow Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Morrell, George Herbert Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)
Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth) Morrison, James Archibald Stanley, Lord (Lancs)
Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Lawson, John Grant Murray, Rt. Hn. A Graham (Bute Stock, James Henry
Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareh'm Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Newdigate, Francis Alexander Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Nicholson, William Graham Thornton, Percy M.
Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Nicol, Donald Ninian Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Lockwood, Lt-Col. A. R. O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Long, Lt.-Col. A. R. Parkes, Ebenezer Valentia, Viscount
Long, Rt. Hon. Walter (Bristol, S Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n Warde, Colonel C. E.
Lonsdale, John Brownlee Peel, Hn Wm. Robert Wellesley Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
Lowe, Francis William Pretyman, Ernest George Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunt'n
Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Welby, Sir-Charles G. E (Notts)
Loyd, Archie Kirkman Purvis, Robert Whiteley, H (Ashton-und. Lyne
Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft Reid, James (Greenock) Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth Remnant, James Farquharson Willox, Sir John Archibald
Macartney, Rt. Hn. W. G. Ellison Renwick, George Wilson, A. Stanley (York. E. R.)
Macdona, John Cumming Richards, Henry Charles Wilson, John (Glasgow)
M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) TELLERSS FOR THE AYES
Manners, Lord Cecil Russell, T. W. Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh. Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Asher, Alexander Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) O'Shee, James John
Atherley-Jones, L. Joyce, Michael Paulton, James Mellor
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Lambert, George Pirie, Duncan V.
Blake, Edward Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.) Power, Patrick Joseph
Roland, John Leese, Sir Joseph F (Accrington) Price, Robert John
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn Leigh, Sir Joseph Priestley, Arthur
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Levy, Maurice Reckitt, Harold James
Burke, E. Haviland- Lough, Thomas Reddy, M.
Caldwell, James Lundon, W. Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Channing, Francis Allston MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. Rigg, Richard
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Condon, Thomas Joseph MacVeagh, Jeremiah Roe, Sir Thomas
Crean, Eugene M'Arthur, William (Cornwall Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Delany, William M'Crae, George Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Dillon, John M'Hugh, Patrick A. Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)
Doogan, P. C. M'Kean, John Shipman, Dr. John G.
Edwards, Frank M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Emmott, Alfred Mansfield, Horace Rendall Soares, Ernest J.
Evans, Samuel T. (Gl'amorgan) Murphy, John Spencer, Rt. Hn C. R. (Northants
Ffrench, Peter Nannetti, Joseph P. Sullivan, Donal
Flavin, Michael Joseph Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, Kendal (Tipper'y, Mid Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Fuller, J. M. F. O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Gilhooly, James O'Brien, P. J (Tipperary, N.) Weir, James Galloway
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) Whiteley, George (York, W. R)
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Dowd, John Wilson, Henry J. (York. W. R.)
Hammond, John O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Hayden, John Patrick O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- O'Malley, William Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan.
Helme, Norval Watson O'Mara, James

(3.0.) Question put accordingly—That the debate be now adjourned."

The House divided:—Ayes, 93: Noes, 160. (Division List No. 154.)

AYES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) Hobhouse, C E. H. (Bristol, E. Paulton, James Mellor
Asher, Alexander Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Pirie, Duncan V.
Atherley-Jones, L. Joyce, Michael Power, Patrick Joseph
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Lambert, George Price, Robert John
Blake, Edward Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) Priestley, Arthur
Boland, John Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington Reckitt, Harold James
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn) Leigh, Sir Joseph Reddy, M.
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Levy, Maurice Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burke, E. Haviland- Lough, Thomas Rigg, Richard
Caldwell, James Lundon, W. Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Channing, Francis Allston MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. Roe, Sir Thomas
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Russell, T. W
Condon, Thomas Joseph MacVeagh, Jeremiah Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Crean, Eugene M'Crae, George Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Delany, William M'Hugh, Patrick A. Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Dillon, John M'Kean, John Shipman, Dr. John G.
Donelan, Captain A. M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Doogan, P. C. Mansfield, Horace Rendall Soares, Ernest J.
Edwards, Frank Murphy, John Spencer, Rt. Hn C. R. (Northants
Emmott, Alfred Nannetti, Joseph P. Sullivan, Donal
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Thomas, David Alfr'd (Merthyr
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) O'Brien, Kendal (Tipp'r'ry, Mid Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Ffreneh, Peter O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Weir, James Galloway
Flynn, James Christopher O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Fuller, J. M. F. O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
Gilhooly, James O'Dowd, John Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.
Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N
Hammond, John O'Malley, William TELLERSS FOR THE AYES
Hayden, John Patrick O'Mara, James Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. M'Arthur.
Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Helme, Norval Watson O'Shee, James John
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F. Dickson, Charles Scott Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden Doughty, George Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth
Anson, Sir William Reynell Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Lawrence, Wm. E. (Liverpool)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Doxford, Sir William Theodore Lawson, John Grant
Arkwright, John Stanhope Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lee, Arthur H (Hants, Fareh'm
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)
Arrol, Sir William Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Finch, George H. Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie
Bain, Colonel James Robert Fisher, William Hayes Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.
Balcarres, Lord Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Bristol, S.)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r Forster, Henry William Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey Galloway, William Johnson Lowe, Francis William
Balfour, Rt. Hn. Gerald W (Leeds Gardner, Ernest Lowther, C. (Cumb. Eskdale)
Beckett, Ernest William Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Gordon, Hn. J E (Elgin & Nairn Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft
Bignold, Arthur Gore, Hn. GRC. Ormsby-(Salop Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsm'th
Blundell, Colonel Henry Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Macartney, Rt. Hn. WG Ellison
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Green, Walford D (Wednesbury Macdona, John Cumming
Brassey, Albert Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Gretton, John M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Ed'nb'rgh W.
Brymer, William Ernest Greville, Hon. Ronald M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Groves, James Grimble Manners, Lord Cecil
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. Hambro, Charles Eric Maxwell, W J H (Dumfriesshire
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G. (Mid'x Melville, Beresford Valentine
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm. Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Chamberlain, J Austen (Worcr. Hay, Hon Claude George Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Chapman Edward Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.') More, Robt Jasper (Shropshire)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Higginbottom, S. W. Morgan, David J (Walthamst'w
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready Hope, J. F. (Sheffi'ld, Brightside Morgan, Hn Fred (Monm'thsh.
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Morrell, George Herbert
Compton, Lord Alwyne Johnston, William (Belfast) Morrison, James Archibald
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham (Bute
Cranborne, Viscount Keuyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Dalkeith, Earl of Keswick, William Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Denny, Colonel Knowles, Lees Nicholson, William Graham
Nicol, Donald Ninian Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander Valentia, Viscount
O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torroens Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln Warde, Colonel C. E.
Parkes, Ebenezer Smith, H C North'mb. Tyneside Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n Smith, James Parker (Lanarks Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (T'nt'n
Peel, Hn. Wm. Robt. Wellesley Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) Welby, Sir Charles GE (Notts
Pretyman, Ernest George Spear, John Ward Whiteley, H (Ashton-und. Lyne
Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Purvis, Robert Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset Willox, Sir John Archibald
Reid, James (Greenock) Stanley, Lord (Lancs) Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Remmant, James Farquharson Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Renwick, George Stock, James Henry Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Richards, Henry Charles Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Ridley, Hon. M. W. Stalybridge Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson Thornton, Percy M. TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Robertson, Herbert (Hackney Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward

Original Question again proposed. "That the words 'on the Notice Paper' stand part of the Standing Order."

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

said he did not see what necessity there was now for altering these words. There might have been necessity when other arrangements were proposed as they were originally, but surely having regard to the Rule which the House had passed with regard to Questions, it seemed quite clear that under that Rule every one of the Questions on the Notice Paper would be disposed of—some of them by being answered immediately orally during the first forty minutes, others during the subsequent five minutes, others by being postponed, and the last of them by being brought under the order which enabled a Minister to have the answer printed and circulated with the Votes. He could see no reason for making the Amendment proposed by the right hon. Gentleman.

MR. CHAPLIN

asked whether it would now be in order to discuss the whole of the Standing Order in regard to the "Adjournment of the House."

MR. SPEAKER

The right hon. Gentleman may discuss whether the words "on the Notice Paper" shall be omitted for the purpose of putting in "allowed to be asked at the commencement of business at the afternoon sitting."

MR. CHAPLIN

As each Rule has been reached, I thought we had commenced with a general discussion on the whole Rule.

MR. SPEAKER

There has been no general discussion where there has been a series of Amendments on an existing Standing Order, but where there has been a new Standing Order proposed there has been a general discussion. Where there is only an Amendment to an existing Standing Order, the discussion must be confined to that Amendment.

MR. CHARLES HOBHOUSE

said he understood the Speaker to rule at the commencement of the last Amendment which was before the House that it was competent to have a general discussion on the Rule.

MR. SPEAKER

When an Amendment is moved, it can, of course, be discussed. This is a very small Amendment, and can only be discussed as far as it goes. It is really put in as a consequential Amendment.

MR. BLAKE

said it appeared to him that the suggestion of the hon. Member for King's Lynn was deserving of attention. It was obvious that something would have to be done under the Rule in connection with the former arrangement about Questions, because under that arrangement a certain number of Questions only were to be disposed of at the afternoon sitting, and the remainder were to be postponed. But that was not the ease under the present proposal, as all the Questions on the Notice Paper would have to be answered either verbally or in print.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said it was merely a question of drafting, and he ventured to think that the drafting he suggested was better than that which found favour with the two hon. Gentlemen. It was a matter which might be disputed for a long time, but it was perfectly clear and explicit, and he would ask the House not to waste time over a purely drafting matter.

(3.18.) Question put—"That the words 'on the Notice Paper' stand part of the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 87; Noes, 157. (Division List No.155.)

AYES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) Helme, Norval Watson O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Asher, Alexander Jones, William (C'rnarvonshire O'Shee, James John
Atherley-Jones, L. Joyce, Michael Pirie, Duncan V.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) Power, Patrick Joseph
Blake, Edward Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington Price, Robert John
Boland, John Leigh, Sir Joseph Priestley, Arthur
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn) Levy, Maurice Reddy, M.
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Lough, Thomas Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burke, E. Haviland- Lundon, W. Rigg, Richard
Caldwell, James MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. Roe, Sir Thomas
Channing, Francis Allston MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Condon, Thomas Joseph MacVeagh, Jeremiah Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Crean, Eugene M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Delany, William M'Crae, George Shipman, Dr. John G.
Dillon, John M'Hugh, Patrick A. Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Donelan, Captain A. M'Kean, John Soares, Ernest J.
Doogan, P. C. M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Spencer, Rt. Hn. C R (Northants
Edwards, Frank Mansfield, Horace Rendall Sullivan, Donal
Emmott, Alfred Murphy, John Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Nannetti, Joseph P. Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.
Ffrench, Peter O'Brien, Kendal (Tipper'ry, Mid Weir, James Galloway
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) White, Patrick
Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
Gilhooly, James O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) O'Dowd, John TELLERSS FOR THE AYES
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Mr. Charles Hobhouse and Mr. Fuller.
Hammond, John O'Kell, Jam's (Roscommon, N.
Hayden, John Patrick O'Malley, William
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- O'Mara, James
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F. Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden Compton, Lord Alwyne Hay, Hon. Claude. George
Anson, Sir William Reynell Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.
Arkwright, John Stanhope Cranborne, Viscount Higginbottom, S. W.
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Dalkeith, Earl of Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside
Arrol, Sir William Denny, Colonel Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Dickson, Charles Scott Johnston, William (Belfast)
Bain, Colonel James Robert Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh)
Balcarres, Lord Doxford, Sir William Theodore Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Keswick, William
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Knowles, Lees
Balfour, Rt. HnGerald W. (Leeds Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.
Beckett, Ernest William Finch, George H. Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth)
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Fisher, William Hayes Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Bignold, Arthur Fitzroy, Hon. Edwaid Algernon Lawson, John Grant
Blundell, Colonel Henry Forster, Henry William Lee, Arthur. H (Hants., Fareham
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Galloway, William Johnson Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)
Brassey, Albert Gardner, Ernest Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie
Brymer, William Ernest Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Gore, Hn G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Green, Walford D. (Wednesbury Lowe, Francis William
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs. Lowther, C. (Camb., Eskdale)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. Gretton, John Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Greville, Hon. Ronald Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Groves, J. Grimble Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth)
Chapman, Edward Hambro, Charles Eric Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G (Midd'x Macdona, John Cumming
M'Calmont, Col. J (Antrim, E.) Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W. Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley Stock, James Henry
M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Pretyman, Ernest George Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Manners, Lord Cecil Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Maxwell, W. T. H (Dumfriesshire Purvis, Robert Thornton, Percy M.
Melville, Beresford Valentine Reid, James (Greenock) Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G. Remnant, James Farquharson Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Molesworth, Sir Lewis Renwick, George Valentia, Viscount
Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Richards, Henry Charles Warde, Colonel C. E.
Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. Thomson Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunton
Morgann, David J. (Walthamstow Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.)
Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh.) Russell, T. W. Whiteley, H (Ashton-und.-Lyne
Morrell, George Herbert Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Morrison, James Archibald Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander Willox, Sir John Archibald
Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln) Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Graham (Bute Smith, H. C (N'rth'mb, Tyneside Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Smith, James Parker (Lanark) Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Newdigate, Francis Alexander Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Nicholson, William Graham Spear, John Ward TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Nicol, Donald Ninian Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk Sir William Walrondand Mr. Anstruther.
O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Stanley, Edward J as. (Somerset)
Parkes, Ebenezer Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)

(3.29.) Question put—"That the words 'asked at the commencement of business' be there inserted in the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 158; Noes, 88. (Division List No. 156.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F. Dickson, Charles Scott Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Doughty, George Lawson, John Grant
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham
Anson, Sir William Reynell Doxford, Sir William Theodore Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Arkwright, John Stanhope Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Lock wood, Lt.-Col. A. R.
Arrol, Sir William Finch, George H. Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Fisher, William Hayes Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Bain, Colonel James Robert Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Lowe, Francis William
Balcarres, Lord Forster, Henry William Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale)
Balfour, Rt Hon. A. J. (Manch'r) Galloway, William Johnson Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Gardner, Ernest Lucas, col. Francis (Lowestoft)
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth
Beckett, Ernest William Gordon, Hn J. E (Elgin & Nairn) Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Gore, Hn G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop Macdona, John Cumming
Bignold, Arthur Goschen, Hon. George Joachim M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.)
Blundell, Colonel Henry Green, Walford D. (Wedn'sbury M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)
Brassey, Albert Gretton, John Manners, Lord Cecil
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Greville, Hon. Ronald Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh.)
Brymer, William Ernest Groves, James Grimble Melville, Beresford Valentine
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Hanrbro, Charles Eric Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (D'rbyshire Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G. (Mid'x Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Haubury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. Hay, Hon. Claude George More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Morgan, David J. (Walth'mst'w
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Heath, Jame-(Staffords., N. W. Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh.
Chapman, Edward Higginbottom, S. W. Morrell, George Herbert
Cochrane, Hon. Tiros. H. A. E. Hope, J. F. (Sheffield. Brightside Morrison, James Archibald
Collings, Rt. Hon Jesse Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready Johnston, William (Belfast) Murray, Rt. Hn A. Graham (Bute
Compton, Lord Alwyne Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop) Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Keswick, William Nicholson, William Graham
Cranborne, Viscount Knowles, Lees Nicol, Donald Ninian
Dalkeith, Earl of Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Denny, Colonel Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth) Parkes, Ebenezer
Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington) Smith, H C (North'mb, Tyneside Wason, John Catbcart (Orkney
Peel, Hn Wm. Robert Wellesley Smith, James Parker (Lanarks. Welby, Lt.-Col. A C E (Taunton
Pretyman, Ernest George Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.
Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Spear, John Ward Whiteley, H. (Ashtonund. Lyne
Purvis, Robert Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Reid, James (Greenock) Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset Willox, Sir John Archibald
Remnant, James Farquharson Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Renwick, George Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Richards, Henry Charles Stock, James Henry Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Thornton, Percy M. TELLERSS FOR THE AYES
Russell, T. W. Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander Valentia, Viscount
Seely, Charles Hilcon (Lincoln) Warde, Colonel C. E.
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- O'Malley, William
Asher, Alexander Helme, Norval Watson O'Mara, James
Atherley-Jones, L. Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) O'Shee, James John
Blake, Edward Joyce, Michael Power, Patrick Joseph
Boland, John Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) Price, Robert John
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn) Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington) Priestley, Arthur
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Leigh, Sir Joseph Reckitt, Harold James
Burke, E. Haviland- Levy, Maurice Reddy, M.
Caldwell, James Lough, Thomas Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Channing, Francis Allston Lundon, W. Rigg, Richard
Condon, Thomas Joseph MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. Roe, Sir Thomas
Crean, Eugene MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Delany, William MacVeagh, Jeremiah Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Dillon, John M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Donelan, Captain A. M'Crae, George Shipman, Dr. John G.
Doogan, P. C. M'Hugh, Patrick A. Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Edwards, Frank M'Kean, John Soares, Ernest J.
Emmott, Alfred M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R. (Northants
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Mansfield, Horace Rendall Sullivan, Donal
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) Murphy, John Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr)
Ffrench, Peter Nannetti, Joseph P. Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings)
Flavin, Michael Joseph Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid Weir, James Galloway
Fuller, J. M. F. O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Gilhooly, James O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Wilson, Henry J. (York. W. R.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Dowd, John TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Hammond, John O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Mr. Pirie and Mr. George Whiteley.
Hayden, John Patrick O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.

Amendment proposed to the Standing Order— In line 5, after the word 'place,' to insert the words 'at an afternoon sitting.'"—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question proposed—" That the words 'at an afternoon sitting' be there inserted."

(3.40.) MR GIBSON BOWLES

said that at present there was nothing in the Standing Order which precluded a Motion for adjournment at a Wednesday sitting, and as the old Wednesday business was to be shifted to Friday, he thought the privilege of moving the adjournment ought to be retained for Friday sittings. The urgency which made a Motion for the adjournment proper might arise or only come to the knowledge of a Member on Friday morning. Surely it would require no particular argument to show that it ought to be possible to make a Motion for the adjournment at the morning sitting on Friday. He thought there was a certain importance in his proposal, as a Motion for the adjournment was almost the only independent action now left to hon. Members. It could only be moved when it concerned a matter of public importance and was urgent, and it ought to be possible to discuss it on Friday as well as on any other day of the week. It was rather more important on Friday than on the other days, because after Friday followed Saturday and Sunday. [An Hon. Member laughed. The education of the Tory Party was becoming quite marvellous, and he was sure the hon. Member would follow him in his argument that as two dies non followed Friday it was more important that a Motion for the adjournment should be discussed on that day than on other days.

Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment— To insert, after the word 'afternoon,' the words 'or morning.'"—(Mr. Gibson Bowles.)

Question proposed—" That those words be there inserted in the proposed Amendment."

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said the matter was not of great importance to the Government, but he thought the House would be well advised not to accept the Amendment. It was perfectly true that there was nothing in the Standing Order which prohibited a Motion for the adjournment on Wednesday, but in the memory of man no such Motion had been moved; and if Motions for the adjournment were to be moved at morning sittings in future, it would lead to considerable inconvenience.

MR. T. W. RUSSELL

remembered an occasion in connection with the Land Bill of 1896, when the adjournment was moved at twelve o'clock.

MR. BRYCE

said that his impression was, that on a famous day in 1881, when the Coercion Bill was being taken, the adjournment was moved at midday.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

thought it was a point of some importance to private Members, because if the first part of a sitting was occupied by a discussion on a Motion for adjournment, the time left for the consideration of whatever private Member's Bill was down for discussion would be so short that the closure would not be granted at the end of the sitting, and thus a very effective method of preventing the consideration of an unpopular Bill would be provided. As far as the Government were concerned, they did not take a very strong view either way. Another point was, that it was the usual, though not the invariable, practice for Motions for adjournment to be preceded by a Question to the Minister concerned. Of course, such Questions on this particular day would not lead to any answer.

Amendment to proposed Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(3.50.) Question put—" That the words 'at an afternoon sitting' be there inserted in the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 154; Noes, 87. (Division List No. 157.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse
Agg-Garduer, James Tynte Bignold, Arthur Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Blundell, Colonel Henry Compton, Lord Alwyne
Anson, Sir William Reynell Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Brassey, Albert Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)
Arkwright, John Stanhope Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Cranborne, Viscount
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Brymer, William Ernest Dalkeith, Earl of
Arrol, Sir William Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Denny, Colonel
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire) Dickson, Charles Scott
Bain, Colonel James Robert Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Doughty, George
Balcarres, Lord Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.) Doxford, Sir William Theodore
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds Chapman, Edward Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward
Beckett, Ernest William Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst
Finch, George, H. Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S) Renwick, George
Fisher, William Hayes Lonsdale, John Brownlee Richards, Henry Charles
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Lowe, Francis William Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge
Forster, Henry William Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Galloway, William Johnson Loyd, Archie Kirkman Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Gardner, Ernest Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth) Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) Macartney, Rt. Hn. W. G. Ellison Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Gore, Hn. G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop Macdona, John Cumming Smith, H. C (North'mb, Tyneside
Goschen, Hon. George Joachim M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Green, Walford D. (Wednesbury M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W Spear, John Ward
Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk
Gretton, John Manners, Lord Cecil Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset)
Greville, Hon. Ronald Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh.) Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Groves, James Grimble Melville, Beresford Valentine Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Hambro, Charles Eric Milner, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G. Stock, James Henry
Hamilton, Rt. HnLordG (Midd'x Molesworth, Sir Lewis Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) Thornton, Percy M.
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Morgan, David J. (Walth'mstow Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.) Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh. Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Higginbottom, S. W. Morrell, George Herbert Valentia, Viscount
Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside Morrison, James Archibald Warde, Colonel C. E.
Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Wason, John Cathcart (Orknev)
Johnston, William (Belfast) Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Grah'm (Bute Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunton
Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Murray, Charles J. (Covcntrj') Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.)
Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop. Newdigate, Francis Alexander Whiteley, H (Ashton-und.-Lyne
Keswick, William Nicholson, William Graham Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Knowles, Lees Nicol, Donald Ninian Willox, Sir John Archibald
Lambton, Hn. Frederick Wm. O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth) Parkes, Ebenezer Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Lawson, John Grant Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley
Lee, Arthur H. (Hants., Fareham Pretyman, Ernest George
Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward TELLERSS FOR THE AYES
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Purvis, Robert Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Reid, James (Greenock)
Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Remnant, James Farquharson
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) Helme, Norval Watson O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Asher, Alexander Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. O'Shee, James John
Atherley-Jones, L. Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Power, Patrick Joseph
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Joyce, Michael Price, Robert John
Blake, Edward Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) Priestley, Arthur
Boland, John Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington Reckitt, Harold James
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn Leigh, Sir Joseph Reddy, M.
Burke, E. Haviland- Levy, Maurice Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Caldwell, James Lundon, W. Rigg, Richard
Channing, Francis Allston MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. Roe, Sir Thomas
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Russell, T. W.
Condon, Thomas Joseph MacVeagh, Jeremiah Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Crean, Eugene M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Delany, William M'Crae, George Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Dillon, John M'Hugh, Patrick A. Shipman, Dr. John G.
Donelan, Captain A. M'Kean, John Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Doogan, P. C. M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Soares, Ernest J.
Edwards, Frank Mansfield, Horace Rendall Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R (Northants
Emmott, Alfred Murphy, John Sullivan, Donal
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Nannetti, Joseph P. Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr)
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings)
Ffrench, Peter O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Weir, James Galloway
Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Fuller, J. M. F. O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Wilson, Henry J. (Vork, W. R.)
Gilhooly, James O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John O'Dowd, John
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Hammond, John O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N. Mr. Pirie and Mr. George Whiteley.
Hayden, John Patrick O'Malley, William
Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- O'Mara, James

Amendment proposed to the Standing Order— At the end, to add the words, 'If the Motion is so supported, or the House so determines that it shall be made, it shall stand over until the evening sitting of the same day.'"—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question proposed—"That those words be there added to the Standing Order."

(4.0.) MR. CHAPLIN

said that the Leader of the House had himself admitted that he considered the power of moving the adjournment as a safety valve which it was necessary to provide, and the right hon. Gentleman proposed to do this by allowing Motions for adjournment to be made at the evening sittings alone. Limited in that way, Motions for the adjournment must lose at least half their value and half their effective force. Motions of this kind, to be effective, must command the attention of the Government. Would they command that attention if they were limited to the evening sittings? The Government were to have four morning sittings, and the chances were that Motions for the adjournment would fall upon one of the private Members' nights, in which case it would be a matter of indifference to the Government whether the adjournment was moved and carried or not. If there was little time left after the adjournment was over, the Government would care even less. But supposing it were moved on a Government evening, and the debate lasted some time. Another difficulty was that adjournments were often moved because of unsatisfactory answers given to Questions. In the future it would not always be within their power to move the adjournment if an hon. Member was dissatisfied with a reply given to his Question. The answers to some Questions would only be circulated in print. The result would be that a blocking notice might be put on the Paper, and the right of hon. Members to exercise the safety valve which the right hon. Gentleman had provided for them would be lost and would be totally ineffective. When he pointed out this difficulty before, the right hon. Gentleman said he would make a proposal to prevent it, if necessary; but nothing had been done. On his own showing it seemed to him that the proposal made by the right hon. Gentleman failed in its purpose. He was very anxious indeed to preserve what was undoubtedly a most valuable privilege. He proposed this Amendment to limit the operation of the Rule to cases where there had not been more than three Motions for adjournment during the session. That would preserve to them some of their rights, if they could not keep the whole, and it would leave it within the power of hon. Members to make three effective Motions of adjournments. He was quite aware that it was impossible to carry any proposal of that kind against the legions which the right hon. Gentleman had had at his back, although at the present moment those legions were not very numerous. [MINISTERIAL Cries of "Oh, Oh!"] He did not know whether hon. Members who cried "Oh, oh!" had heard the figures in the division which had just been read out. At present they were dealing with a proposal to deprive the House of one of its most important powers, and they were doing this in a House which contained not more than one-third of its Members at an hour when no one could have expected it—between three and four in the morning. He was astonished that hon. Gentlemen on his own side were so ready to part with a weapon which they had always found of the utmost value when they were in a minority in the House of Commons. He thought they would live to regret parting with this weapon. He begged to move his Amendment.

Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment— After the word 'made,' in line 2, to insert the words 'and a similar Motion has not been made three times during that session, it shall be taken at an afternoon sitting otherwise.'"—(Mr. Chaplin).

Question proposed—" That those words be there inserted in the Amendment proposed to the Standing Order. '

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said that his right hon. friend must be aware that it was impossible for the Government to accept the Amendment he had proposed. If Motions for adjournment were worth anything at all, why stop three? If it were true, as his right hon. friend seemed to suppose, that a Motion for adjournment lost all its importance by being carried over to nine o'clock in the evening, then he thought that, to be consistent, the right hon. Gentleman ought to lay this down as a general proposition. His own view was that the Amendment ought not to be accepted, because it was entirely based on false reasons. His right hon. friend appeared to suppose that the whole virtue of a Motion for adjournment consisted in the fact that it ended by a division which would prevent further business being proceeded with that night, and that that was the danger which hung over the Government when the adjournment was moved. In that view his right hon. friend was entirely mistaken. The inconvenience was not confined to the Government, it extended to the whole House. It was not for the public convenience that when business had to be got through any portion of their time should be absolutely wasted. The reason why a Motion for adjournment was a useful weapon in the hands of the critics of the Government was that it enabled forty Members, without notice, to raise any question they chose and to debate it at any length. He ventured to say that the brief notice that would be given under this rule would be a great advantage. He thought this would be an advantage not merely to the Government, but also to hon. Members of the House. In those cases in which the House really wished to have a full account of the transactions in respect of which the Government were called to account, it was really most important that the Minister who was to be attacked should have some opportunity of getting up the facts and mastering the case which he had got to present to the House. Consider for a moment the extraordinary inconsistency of their present practice. They all agreed that some notice should be given of Questions, and they were all agreed that some considerable time should be devoted to Questions. The Government could not pass any resolution without giving a day's notice, but the House might have a Motion for adjournment on a complicated issue, and about which the Minister incriminated might have very little information. That could be brought before the House, without warning to anybody, after the Questions were over. He objected to the Amendment in the interest of sound debate. He asked the House to recollect that a Minister might say, "If I had been told of this I could have answered the case." Perhaps it would not have been a good answer, but that excuse would be removed by the system now proposed. He could not see that any loss occurred to the other side. The privilege of moving the adjournment appeared to him to remain not only unimpaired, but the system which he proposed to the House left absolutely untouched those valuable hours in which the most important part of their debates were carried on, and which at present were subject to very serious invasion at the hands of any section of the House which desired to invade them. What he had proposed was really an essential part of the general scheme of business.

MR. CHARLES HOBHOUSE

said the right hon. Gentleman proposed to put off the discussion, and to curtail the time in regard to Motions for the adjournment of the House, It seemed to him that what the right hon. Gentleman called sound debate was impossible under a system which limited the statement of the hon. Member who moved the adjournment, and the Minister who replied, to a single hour. In that hour it would be almost impossible to develop the case.

(4.20.) MR. DILLON

said the only difficulty he had in supporting the Amendment, was that it did not go far enough. The First Lord of the Treasury had adopted an attitude which he could not understand at all. He had spoken of the sacred four and a half hours between three and half past seven, and he seemed to attach extraordinary and exceptional importance to them. The right hon. Gentleman claimed that the value of the Rule rested upon the retaining of these hours for Government business. Why was there any particular virtue in these four and a half hours as against the three hours between twelve and three? Anyone who had studied the Rules would see that the throwing off of the Motion for adjournment till nine o'clock really deprived the House of the weapon of adjournment for dealing with the executive. This proposal would be an enormous gain to the Government. The hon. Member asked the House to consider what would have happened a few nights ago if the proposed Rule had been in force when the adjournment of the House was moved with respect to the Cartwright case. The hon. Member for the Montrose Burghs would have spoken to almost empty benches at nine o'clock, and the Motion would have been stifled, snuffed out, and extinguished between then and ten o'clock. The Leader of the House asked them to accept the proposition that a Motion for adjournment would be more effective if put off till nine o'clock. In saying so, he was presuming on the ignorance of people who had not studied the Rules at all. The evident expectation of the framers of the Rules was that the hour between nine and ten would be a dead hour in the House, because it was provided that the House could not be counted out then. A Motion for adjournment proposed then would be a farce. What the Ministry wanted was to get rid of the Motion for adjournment altogether, because it was a dangerous weapon. They were afraid to come before the House frankly and say that this was their object. They took the roundabout device by which the Motion for adjournment would be not frankly killed but relegated to a period of the evening when it would become a farce. In the past the Motion for adjournment had not been abused. He had over and over again exerted his influence to prevent his colleagues from moving the adjournment, because he felt that if the weapon was abused it would eventually be destroyed. It was too valuable to throw away in this manner. He considered it to be a public scandal that they should be compelled to debate this important question in a thin House at this hour, when they should be asleep. He did not think there ever had been a case before when the House had been forced to debate an all-important and vital issue like this at such an hour in such a slender House.

MR. GEORGE WHITELEY

said he desired to ask the ruling of the Chair with regard to the question they were discussing. He understood that they were only discussing the Amendment of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Sleaford Division, and he took it that an ample opportunity would arise later to discuss the whole question.

MR. SPEAKER

On this Amendment the hon. Gentleman can practically discuss the importance of not limiting the right to an afternoon sitting.

(4.35.) MR. PIRIE (Aberdeen, N.)

said he desired to enter his protest against what, to his mind, was a grave and serious scandal. Their constituents sent them to Parliament to remedy public grievances, and there were no better means of doing that than by the privilege, which had existed almost from time immemorial, of moving the adjournment of the House. He protested against such an important question as this being dealt with at such an hour of the morning, when the House was physically unable to exercise a sound judgment on the matter. He hoped, therefore, that the Leader of the House would yield to the representations which had been made to him, and adjourn the debate. He begged to move "That the debate be now adjourned."

MR. SPEAKER,

being of opinion that the Motion was an abuse of the Rules of the House, declined to propose the Question thereupon to the House.

Debate resumed.

MR. McCRAE (Edinburgh, E.)

said it seemed to him that there was really not very much difference between the view taken by the First Lord of the Treasury and the view taken on that side of the House. They were discussing a very important matter, and anything affecting the right of a Member to move the adjournment of the House should be very carefully considered. He submitted that the right hon. Gentleman ought to be satisfied with the progress he had already made, and he, therefore, begged to move the adjournment of the debate.

MR. SPEAKER

I believe the House quite understood, when it divided on the last Motion for the adjournment of the debate, that it was dividing on the question as to whether the discussion on this Rule should be concluded or not.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

Do I understand you, Sir, to rule that when this House has decided against a Motion for the adjournment of the debate, it has decided, in effect, that it will carry to the bitter end all the subjects under discussion?

MR. SPEAKER

No, I said I thought that was the view of the House. Perhaps I should have qualified that by saying, assuming that the debate did not extend to a very unreasonable length.

MR. JOHN REDMOND

May I ask whether your ruling amounts to this, that the House, having taken that view in the last division, you will go the length of ruling that any Motion for the adjournment now is an abuse of the forms of the House? Otherwise, I say you are bound to put the Motion.

MR. SPEAKER

At this moment, I say it is an abuse.

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR

said that as a decision had now been given which practically meant that they must discuss the question fully now or not at all, be thought they had a right to ask hon. Gentlemen opposite to listen with some degree of patience to the remarks hon. Members on that side deemed it their duty to make. He was unable to reconcile the two positions taken up by the right hon. Gentleman. The right hon. Gentleman was against a Motion for the adjournment at an afternoon sitting, and at the same time he held that a Motion for the adjournment at an evening sitting was practically the same, so far as the fate and influence of the Motion was concerned. Those two positions were absolutely irreconcilable. If the time of the Government at an evening sitting were less valuable than the time of the Government at an afternoon sitting, then a Motion for the adjournment at an evening sitting was less valuable than at an afternoon sitting. Either the right hon. Gentleman's exposition was wanting in its usual lucidity, or his own fatigued brain—[an Hon. Member laughed]—it was well to have a brain equal to being fatigued—could not understand the exposition of the right hon. Gentleman; but certainly he thought the two statements were contradictory. He held that the time of an afternoon sitting was more valuable and more influential than the time of an evening sitting, and for that very reason he asked that Motions for the adjournment should be moved in the afternoon sitting. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Sleaford Division ought to have aroused in the memory of the right hon. Gentleman some very portentous recollections of the value to an Opposition of Motions for the adjournment. He remembered the historic day when Mr. Gladstone held a meeting at the Foreign Office with regard to the then pending Home Rule Bill of 1886, and the afternoon of that day, when the present Chancellor of the Exchequer moved a Motion for the adjournment, and it was the debate on that Motion that produced the final separation between the two sections of the then united Liberal Party, and in that way decided the fate of a great Government and of a great historic Party. In face of that recollection, the right hon. Gentleman, at five o'clock in the morning, with a small body of his supporters, impatient of discussion, proposed to destroy one of the greatest and most effective instruments for the protection of a minority in this House. It was in a House resounding with the trombone snores of his supporters that the right hon. Gentleman proposed to destroy one of the greatest powers of Parliament. The right hon. Gentleman maintained that Motions for the adjournment were safeguarded and preserved in all their pristine purity and integrity by the change he proposed. Did anyone imagine that the right hon. Gentleman was serious in that statement? [Mr. A. J. BALFOUR: Yes, I am.] When the right hon Gentleman said that a Motion for the adjournment at an evening sitting was practically the same as at a morning sitting, either his own powers of credence or the right hon. Gentleman's powers of acting were stretched to almost breaking point. They all knew what a nine o'clock sitting would be. His late friend Mr. Biggar used to be called "Count" Biggar, because, within thirty seconds of the Speaker taking the Chair at an evening sitting he always moved a count, and they all went home quite pleased with their free evening. But if the late Mr. Biggar were now a Member he would not have the power to move a count, because the right hon. Gentleman had taken most elaborate precautions to prevent the House being counted out. The House might only contain two Members and the Speaker, but still a count could not be moved, and he ventured to prophesy that under the new Rule there would only be an average of ten or twelve Members in the House between nine o'clock and ten o'clock, not one of them a Front Bench man. On private Members' nights, the Member who had the Motion, would, of course, be present, and he might be supported by ten or twelve friends' and although the House had no existence in the real sense of the word, it would continue to sit until ten o'clock and its life would be held by the attenuated thread of the most meagre attendance. That practically meant that from nine o'clock to ten o'clock there would be no House at all in any real effective sense. The proposition of the right hon. Gentleman was one of the most incredible and ridiculous ever advanced by a man in his position. Even if a division were taken between nine o'clock and ten o'clock, and it was shown that there were only two Members in one lobby, one in the other, and the four tellers, seven in all out of 670, even then the House would not adjourn, but would go on to the next business. He did not like to use the adjective "Machiavellian" except in a strictly Pickwickian sense, but if the Machiavellian ingenuity of the right hon. Gentleman were devoted solely to the purpose of making the period between nine o'clock and ten o'clock on a private Members' night—[Mr. A. J. BALFOUR: Or any night]—an absolute nullity and of reducing it to a farce and an absurdity, he could not have taken greater precautions than he had. The difference between a morning sitting and an evening sitting was that there was a full House at one and an empty House at the other. Did any one suppose that hon. Gentlemen would be influenced by a Motion for adjournment which they had not heard made? One of the greatest scandals connected with the House, which, however, the new Rules did not pretend to remove, was that two Gentlemen representing the different Parties could by a word, or even by a turn of the thumb, have more to do with the result of a division than the most eloquent speech; and the right hon. Gentleman, instead of making an energetic effort to reduce the crying evil, was actually aggravating and increasing it. Take the ease of Mr. Cartwright. In all his experience he had never heard a debate that had more vitality, more interest, more reality, and he thought in the end more beneficial effect, than that debate. It was a real debate, because for the moment the shackles of Party were removed and men spoke their real opinions from the depths of their conscience. The result was that a serious effect was brought to bear on the future conduct of many high persons both in England and in South Africa. Suppose the Rule they were now discussing had been then in existence, and that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose Burghs had been put off until nine o clock in the evening, he would have had to address an empty Treasury Bench and an empty House, except for the presence of a few friends and colleagues; and for all practical purposes his speech would have been as futile as if he had gone on a rock jutting out into the sea and endeavoured by the sound of his voice to subdue a storm. In face of those facts, was it not clear that what the right hon. Gentleman proposed to do was, not to destroy the right to move the adjournment—he had not the boldness to do that—but to so impair, nullify, and embarrass it as to make it practically of no consequence or power? He would ask the House to look at the question free from the spirit of Party. He knew it was very hard to ask hon. Members to do that, especially at five o'clock in the morning, when, very reasonably and properly, they thought that the supreme national interest of the moment was to get home to bed instead of having to snore on the green benches opposite. He would put it to hon. Members that there were moments in the life of a nation when it was absolutely neeessary to bring the Government of the day to account at once, and subject it to immediate and severe criticism. It was a valuable right, and a most necessary protection for the liberty of the country, and might even, on occasion, affect the national existence. That right the right hon. Gentleman was not ashamed to filch from the House of Commons at five o'clock in the morning. One of the most extraordinary proceedings of the States General during the French Revolution occurred one night, when the nobles, in a moment of expansiveness and enthusiasm, voted away all the historic rights enjoyed by their order for centuries. That night lived in French history as the night which gave France liberties she had never enjoyed before. Tonight, under the instruction and guidance of the right hon. Gentleman, the head of the great Constitutional

Party, ought to live in the annals of the House of Commons as the night in which one of the greatest privileges of its Members was filched away, when none of those Members were in a condition seriously to fight for it.

(5.0.) Mr. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question proposed, "That the Question be now put."

The House divided:—Ayes, 147; Noes, 86. (Division List No. 158.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F. Fisher, William Hayes Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Macdona, John Cumming
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden Forster, Henry William M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.
Anson, Sir William Reynell Galloway, William Johnson M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinbur'h, W
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Gardner, Ernest M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)
Arkwright, John Stanhope Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Manners, Lord Cecil
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Gordon, Hn J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) Maxwell, W J H (Dumfriesshire
Arrol, Sir William Gore, Hn G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop Melville, Beresford Valentine
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.
Bain, Colonel James Robert Green, Walford D (Wednesbury Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Balcarres, Lord Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs) Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r Gretton, John Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Balfour, C. B. (Hornsey) Greville, Hon. Ronald More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds Groves, James Grimble Morgan, David J (Walthamstow
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Hambro, Charles Eric Morgan, Hn. Fred (Monm'thsh
Bignold, Arthur Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G (Midd'x Morrell, George Herbert
Blundell, Colonel Henry Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm. Morrison, James Archibald
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Brassey, Albert Heath, James (Staffords, N. W. Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham (Bute)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Higginbottom, S. W. Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs) Hope, J. F. (Sheffleld, Brightside Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Nicholson, William Graham
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Johnston, William (Belfast) Nicol, Donald Ninian
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop Peel, Hn Wm. Robert Wellesley
Chapman, Edward Keswick, William Pretyman, Ernest George
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Knowles, Lees Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Collings, Rt. Hn. Jesse Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Purvis, Robert
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth) Reid, James (Greenock)
Compton, Lord Alwyne Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Remnant, James Farquharson
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Lawson, John Grant Richards, Henry Charles
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge)
Cranborne, Viscount Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Dalkeith, Earl of Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Denny, Colonel Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Dickson, Charles Scott Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Doughty, George Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- Lonsdale, John Brownlee Smith, H C (North'mb, Tyneside
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Lowe, Francis William Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lowther, C. (Cumb, Eskdale) Spear, John Ward
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Loyd, Archie Kirkman Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Stanley, Edward Jas (Somerset)
Finch, George H. Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth Stanley, Lord (Lancs)
Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. Warde, Colonel C. E. Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Stock, James Henry Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier Welby, Lt.-Col. A C E (Taunton
Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Thornton, Percy M. Whiteley, H. (Ashton und. Lyne
Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward Willox, Sir John Archibald
Valentia, Viscount Wilson, John (Glasgow)
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Asher, Alexander Helme, Norval Watson O'Shee, James John
Atherley-Jones, L. Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Power, Patrick Joseph
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Joyce, Michael Price, Robert John
Blake, Edward Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W. Priestley, Arthur
Boland, John Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington Reckitt, Harold James
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn) Leigh, Sir Joseph Reddy, M.
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Levy, Maurice Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burke, E. Haviland- Lundon, W. Rigg, Richard
Caldwell, James MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. Russell, T. W.
Channing, Francis Allston MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry MacVeagh, Jeremiah Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)
Condon, Thomas Joseph M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Shipman, Dr. John G.
Crean, Eugene M'Crae, George Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Delany, William M'Hugh, Patrick A. Soares, Ernest J.
Dillon, John M'Kean, John Spencer, Rt Hn C. R. (Northants
Donelan, Captain A. M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Sullivan, Donal
Doogan, P. C. Mansfield, Horace Rendall Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Edwards, Frank Murphy, John Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Emmott, Alfred Nannetti, Joseph P. Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Weir, James Galloway
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) O'Brien, Kendal (Tip'era'y, Mid White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Ffrench, Peter O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.
Flynn, James Christopher O'Conor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Fuller, J. M. F. O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Gilhooly, James O'Dowd, John TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Mr. Pirie and Mr. Charles Hobhouse.
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.
Hammond, John O'Malley, William
Hayden, John Patrick O'Mara, James

(5.10.) Question put accordingly, "That those words be inserted in the Amendment to the proposed Amendment to the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 85; Noes, 148. (Division List No. 159.)

AYES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) Esmonde, Sir Thomas Lundon, W.
Asher, Alexander Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.
Atherley-Jones, L. Ffrench, Peter MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Flavin, Michael Joseph MacVeagh, Jeremiah
Blake, Edward Flynn, James Christopher M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)
Boland, John Fuller, J. M. F. M'Crae, George
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Gilholey, James M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Burke, E. Haviland- Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton M'Kean, John
Caldwell, James Hammond, John M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)
Channing, Francis Allston Hayden, John Patrick Mansfield, Horace Rendall
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- Murphy, John
Condon, Thomas Joseph Helme, Norval Watson Nannetti, Joseph P.
Crean, Eugene Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Delany, William Jones, William (Carnarvonshire O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid
Dillon, John Joyce, Michael O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Donelan, Captain A. Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W. O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)
Doogan, P. C. Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington) O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Edwards, Frank Leigh, Sir Joseph O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Emmott, Alfred Levy, Maurice O'Dowd, John
O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Reddy, M. Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings)
O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N. Redmond, John E. (Waterford) Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
O'Malley, William Rigg, Richard Weir, James Galloway
O'Mara, James Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) White, Patrick (Meath, North)
O'Suaughnessy, P. J. Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.) Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
O'Shee, James John Shipman, Dr. John G. Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Pirie, Duncan V. Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Power, Patrick Joseph Soares, Ernest J.
Price, Robert John Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R. (Northants TELLERS FOR THE AYES
Priestley, Arthur Sullivan, Donal Mr. T. W. Russell and Mr. Gibson Bowles.
Reckitt, Harold James Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr)
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. Gore, Hn. G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop Morrell, George Herbert
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Morrison, James Archibald
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Green, Walford D. (Wednesbury Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Anson, Sir William Reynell Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Graham (Bute
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Gretton, John Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Arkwright, John Stanhope Greville, Hon. Ronald Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Groves, James Grimble Nicholson, William Graham
Arrol, Sir William Hambro, Charles Eric Nicol, Donald Ninian
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G. (Midd'x O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bain, Colonel James Robert Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley
Balcarres, Lord Hardy, Laurence, (Kent, Ashford Pretyman, Ernest George
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r. Heath, James (Staffords., N. W.) Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Higginbottom, S. W. Purvis, Robert
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W. (Leeds Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside Reid, James (Greenock)
Bentinck, Lord Henry G Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Remnant, James Farquharson
Bignold, Arthur Johnston, William (Belfast) Richards, Henry Charles
Blundell, Colonel Henry Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop. Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. Thomson
Brassey, Albert Keswick, William Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Knowles, Lees Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth) Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Smith, HC. (North'mb, Tyneside
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Lawson, John Grant Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. Lee, Arthur H. (Hants., Fareham Spear, John Ward
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r. Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk
Chapman, Edward Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. Stock, James Henry
Compton, Lord Alwyne Lonsdale, John Brownlee Sturt, Hon. Humphrey Napier
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Lowe, Francis William Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) Thornton, Percy M.
Cranborne, Viscount Loyd, Archie Kirkman Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Dalkeith, Earl of Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Denny, Colonel Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth) Valentia, Viscount
Dickson, Charles Scott Macartney, Rt Hn. W. G. Ellison Warde, Colonel C. E.
Doughty, George Macdona, John Cumming Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E. (Taunt'n
Doxford, Sir William Theodore M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Whiteley, H. (Ashton-und-Lyne
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Manners, Lord Cecil Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Maxwell, WJ. H (Dumfriesshire Willox, Sir John Archibald
Finch, George H. Melville, Beresford Valentine Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Fisher, William Hayes Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G. Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Molesworth, Sir Lewis Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Forster, Henry William Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Galloway, William Johnson Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Gardner, Ernest More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Morgan, David J. (Walthamstow Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh.
(5.20.) Mr. A. J. BALFOUR

claimed, "That the words 'If the Motion is so supported, or the House so determines that it shall be made, it shall stand over until the evening sitting of the same day' be added to the Standing Order."

Question put accordingly, "That those words be there added to the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 148; Noes, 86. (Division List No. 160.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. Gore, Hn GRC. Ormsby-(Salop) Morrell, George Herbert
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Goschen, Hon. Geo. Joachim Morrison, James Archibald
Allhusen, Augustus Henry E. Green, Walford D. (W'dnesbury Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Anson, Sir William Reynell Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Murray, Rt. Hn A. Graham (Bute
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Gretton, John Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Arkwright, John Stanhope Greville, Hon. Ronald Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Groves, James Grimble Nicholson, Wm. Graham
Arrol, Sir William Hambro, Charles Eric Nicol, Donald Ninian
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G. (Mid' x O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bain, Colonel James Robert Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm. Peel, Hon. Wm. R. Wellesley
Balcarres, Lord Hardy, Laur. (Kent, Ashford) Pretyman, Ernest George
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r Heath, James (Staffords. N. W. Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Higginbottom, S. W. Purvis, Robert
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds Hope, J. F. (Sheffi'd, Brightside Reid, James (Greenock)
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Remnant, James Farquharson
Bignold, Arthur Johnston, William (Belfast) Richards, Henry Charles
Blundell, Colonel Henry Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalyb'dge
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop. Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Brassey, Albert Keswick, William Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Knowles, Lees Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Sadler, Col. Samuel Alex.
Cavendish, V. CW. (Derbyshire Lawrence, Joseph (M'nmouth) Seely, Chas. Hilton (Lincoln)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Smith, H. C. (N'th'mb, Tyneside
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Lawson, John Grant Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham) Spear, John Ward
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Stanley, Hn. Artbur (Ormskirk)
Chapman, Edward Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Colomb, Sir John Chas. Ready Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Bristol, S.) Stock, James Henry
Compton, Lord Alwyne Lonsdale, John Brownlee Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow Lowe, Francis William Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) Thornton, Percy M.
Cranborne, Viscount Loyd, Archie Kirkman Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Dalkeith, Earl of Lucas, Col. Eras. (Lowestoft) Tuffnell, Lt-Colonel Edward
Denny, Colonel Lucas, Regd. J. (Portsmouth) Valentia, Viscount
Dickson, Charles Scott Macartney, Rt Hn W. G. Ellison Warde, Colonel C. E.
Doughty, George Macdona, John Cumming Wason, J. Cathcart (Orkney)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E. Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E. (T'nton
Doxtord, Sir William Theodore M'Iver, Sir Lewis (E'in burgh, W Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton M'Killop, Jas. (Stirlingshire) Whiteley, H (Asht'n-und.-Lyne
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Manners, Lord Cecil Williams, Col. R. (Dorset)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfries.) Willox, Sir John Archibald
Finch, George H. Melville, Beresford Valentine Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Fisher, William Hayes Milner, Rt. Hon. Sir Fred k. G. Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Fitzroy, Hon. Edw. Algernon Molesworth, Sir Lewis Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Forster, Henry William Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Galloway, William Johnson Moon, Edward Robert pacy
Gardner, Ernest More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire TELLERSS FOR THE AYES
Godson, Sir Augustus Fred k. Morgan, David J. (Walth'stow) Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Gordon, Hn J. E (Elgin & Nairn) Morgan, Hn. Fred (Monm'thsh.
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Ffrench, Peter
Asher, Alexander Condon, Thomas Joseph Flavin, Michael Joseph
Atherley-Jones, L. Crean, Eugene Flynn, James Christopher
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Delany, Willliam Fuller, J. M. F.
Blake, Edward Dillon, John Gilhooly, James
Boland, John Donelan, Captain A. Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Herb. J.
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn) Doogan, P. C. Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Edwards, Frank Hammond, John
Burke, E. Haviland- Emmott, Alfred Hayden, John Patrick
Caldwell, James Esmonde, Sir Thomas Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale-
Channing, Francis Allston Evans, Smal. T. (Glamorgan) Helme, Norval Watson
Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary, M Russell, T. W.
Joyce, Michael O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal W.) O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)
Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accringt'n) O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Shipman, Dr. John G.
Leigh, Sir Joseph O'Donnell, T. (Kerry W.) Sinclair John, (Forfarshire)
Levy, Maurice O'Dowd, John Soares, Ernest J.
Lundon, W. O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo N.) Spencer, Rt. Hon. C. R (N'thants
MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon N.) Sullivan, Donal
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift O'Malley, William Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
MacVeagh, Jeremiah O'Mara, James Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall) O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Thomson, P. W. (York, W. R.)
M'Crae, George O Shee, James John Weir, James Galloway
M'Hugh, Patrick A. Power, Patrick Joseph White, Patrick (Meath, North)
M'Kean, John Price, Robert John Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Priestly, Arthur Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Mansfield, Horace Rendall Reckitt, Harold James
Murphy, John Reddy, M. TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Nannetti, Joseph P. Redmond, John E. (Waterford Mr. Pirie and Mr. Charles Hobhouse.
Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Rigg, Richard

The Standing Order "Adjournment of the House," as finally adopted, is as follows:—

That no Motion for the adjournment of the House shall be made until all the Questions asked at the commencement of business at the afternoon sitting have been disposed of and no such Motion shall be made before the Orders of the Bay or Notices of Motion have been entered upon, except by leave of the House, unless a Member rising in his place at an afternoon sitting shall propose to move the Adjournment for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, and not less than forty Members shall thereupon rise in their places to support the Motion; or unless, if fewer than forty Members and not less than ten shall thereupon rise in their places, the House shall, on a division, upon Question put forthwith, determine whether such Motion shall be made. If the Motion is so supported, or the House so determines that it shall be made, it shall stand over until the evening sitting of the same day.

(5.30.) Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

MR. DILLON

said they were entitled to complain of the treatment the House had received from the First Lord of the Treasury. The course followed by the right hon. Gentleman had resulted in a gross waste of public time. That had been the universal experience of all Ministers who had embarked in enterprises of this character. He felt absolutely confident that the right hon. Gentleman had not increased his chances of getting the Rules through on Thursday night. But for the course which had been taken, he thought it was exceedingly likely that the Rules might have been got through then. He did not think the right hon. Gentleman was well advised when he refused the offer which was made in a friendly and conciliatory spirit about one o'clock. Experience had shown that the vigorous use of the closure did not tend to the making of progress.

MR. BRYCE

said he desired to express the sense which obtained on that side of the House of the very unusual and extremely unfortunate course take by the Government. It was a course which the Opposition endeavoured to dissuade them from, and one which would redound neither to the credit of the proceedings of the House nor to the excellence of the Rules on which they had been at so untimely an hour engaged.

When the Question "That the House do now adjourn" was again put from the Chair, there were loud and repeated cries of "No!" from the Nationalist Benches; but

MR. SPEAKER

said: Hon. Members cry "No," but I shall take no notice of that. This House now stands adjourned.

Adjourned at twenty minutes before Six o'clock.