ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

HC Deb 29 April 1902 vol 107 cc287-332

Standing Order No. 17 read—

"That no Motion for the Adjournment of the House shall be made until all the Questions on the Notice Paper have been disposed of, and no such Motion shall be made before the Orders of the Day or Notices of Motion have been entered upon, except by leave of the House unless a Member rising in his place shall propose to move the Adjournment for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, and not less than forty Members shall thereupon rise in their places to support the Motion; or unless, if fewer than forty Members and not less than ten shall thereupon rise in their places, the House shall, on a division, upon Question put forthwith, determine whether such Motion shall be made."

(2.15.) MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I beg to move the Amendment standing in my name. I accept the Amendment of my hon. friend the Member for King's Lynn, viz., to omit, in line 1, the words "allowed to be."

Amendment proposed to the Standing-Order— In line 2, to leave out the words 'on the Notice Paper,' and insert the words 'asked at the commencement of business at the afternoon sitting.'"—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question proposed—" That the words 'on the Notice Paper' stand part of the Standing Order."

MR. BRYCE

said he thought the right hon. Gentleman had risen to move the adjournment of the debate. They had now reached an hour which, he was sure, anyone who had heard the answer of the right hon. Gentleman to his Question in the early part of the sitting would not have expected to be exceeded. They had completed a very difficult Rule, on which a great number of intricate and unexpected Questions had arisen, which were debated with perfect good humour and good temper. The right hon Gentleman had met them in a similar spirit, and, confessedly, the Rule was much improved, and no one could say that the discussion of it was either futile or needless. Now the right hon. Gentleman was asking the House, at a time when they were unable to give attention to difficult Questions, to enter upon the consideration of a highly contentious and important Rule, which would require a number of hours, if properly discussed. He could not believe that the right hon. Gentleman, after the conciliatory spirit he had displayed earlier in the evening, would wish by the simple force of his majority to put this Rule through without proper discussion. Therefore, he ventured to appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to allow the discussion to come to a close. The right hon. Gentleman asked some time ago whether an arrangement might be made under which the remaining Rules in the block could be passed on Thursday. It was impossible to give a positive undertaking of that kind, for the reason that they did not know until they began to discuss the Rules what latent difficulties and pitfalls might be in them. There was no desire whatever to unduly prolong discussion upon them. The right hon. Gentleman must perceive that there was nothing to be gained by undue discussion of the Rules. The discussion of the Rules which had been disposed of had resulted in their being considerably improved, and, therefore, it was not because he anticipated any unduly prolonged discussion on the remaining Rules, but merely because he did not think it possible before they had entered on the Rules to know how long they would take or what unforeseen difficulties might arise, that he felt that such a pledge could not be given to the right hon. Gentleman. He believed that it would be in the interest of the smooth passage of the Rules and of the form in which they would ultimately emerge, which was a matter of just as much importance on one side as on the other, if the right hon. Gentleman would now consent to adjourn the debate. He therefore begged to move that the debate be now adjourned.

Motion made, and Question proposed—" That the debate be now adjourned."—(Mr. Bryce.)

MR. A. J. BALFOUE

said he really found some difficulty in following the observations of the light hon. Gentleman. The right hon. Gentleman had been good enough to say that he had shown a conciliatory spirit in the earlier part of the evening. He trusted that a conciliatory spirit was the spirit he should always show with reference to matters in this House. When he asked, an hour and a half ago, if there was any reasonable prospect of finishing the Rules on Thursday, he was met with a blank indication of refusal. The House would believe him when he said that he was unable to understand how the House could profitably spend more than Thursday in discussing what now remained of the present block of Rules. There were some matters to be raised on private business, but apart from that all the critical points in the Rules forming the block had been disposed of. That was his sincere opinion, and when he expressed it to the House it was in the hope and expectation that a reasonable prospect might be hold out of finishing the remaining Rules in the block on Thursday. He thought he would have been met in a corresponding spirit. Therefore, he felt bound to ask the House to deal with the single point raised in the Amendment to the next Rule, which was not a new Standing Order. There was really only one point of substance to be decided, namely, whether a Motion for the adjournment should be taken at an evening sitting or at a morning sitting, and in his opinion that would take only a very short space of time, though of course he should be very glad to put it off until Thursday if he had any hope held out to him or any indication given to him that it would not be made the excuse for continuing the discussion over Thursday. He must therefore ask the House to proceed with the discussion, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would not press his Motion to a division.

MR. BRYCE

said he had expressed no opinion as to whether the remaining Rules would he got through on Thursday or not. He only said that bearing in mind the difficulties which had unexpectedly arisen in connection with other Rules, he was unable to give the undertaking for which the right hon. Gentleman had asked.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said he did not ask for a pledge. 'He could assure the right hon. Gentleman that he only asked for a general understanding that there should be an endeavour to pass the remaining Rules in the block on Thursday. Even when an indefinite pledge of that kind was given by hon. Members below the gangway, he had always found it had been kept, and he should have been glad to accept even a pledge in that indefinite form.

MR. JOHN REDMOND

said he really thought that the light hon. Gentleman—quite unintentionally, of course—had misrepresented what took place. He distinctly understood the right hon. Gentleman to ask for what amounted to an understanding on their part that Thursday would see the end of this block of Rules. The right hon. Gentleman rightly acknowledged that when any understanding was arrived at between the Government and the Irish Members it was always carefully observed, and it was because he was afraid that the right hon. Gentleman might have been misled, that he intervened at once and said that the suggestion of his hon. friend did not include an undertaking—he thought he used that word—that the Rules would be finished on Thursday night. If the right hon. Gentleman had simply asked that they would not obstruct the Rules, that would have been an entirely different thing. They had not, in any sense, obstructed the Rules, and the practical result of the discussions was to bring about very serious Amendments in all the Rules which had been passed. No one could say that there had been any serious attempt at obstruction, and if the right hon. Gentleman had said to him, "I will agree to the adjournment if you will give me an assurance that the discussion of the remaining Rules will not be unduly prolonged," he would have given him that undertaking. But he understood the right hon. Gentleman to ask for an undertaking that the Irish Members would be a party to closing the discussion on Thursday night, whether the Rules had been adequately discussed or not. He was not in a position to give that undertaking, and thereupon the right hon. Gentleman insisted on having an hour and a half of useless discussion. He did not agree with the right hon. Gentleman that there was no point of real importance in the Rules still remaining to be discussed in this block. He thought that the Rule they were now invited to discuss with reference to the right of moving the adjournment of the House, which was one of the few opportunities which remained to Irish Members to raise discussions in the House—a right which was to be seriously diminished—was of such importance as to make it impossible that it could be adequately discussed at this hour in the morning. There was also the Rule with reference to Private Business, which ought to be carefully scrutinised and adequately discussed, and he was not at all sure that those matters could be adequately discussed in the time at their disposal on Thursday. He did not know why the right hon. Gentleman wished to confine the debate to Thursday. Was it his anxiety that Friday should be devoted to the consideration of an important private Member's measure dealing with the ice cream traffic in Scotland? He should not complain if the right hon. Gentleman took Friday for the Rules, and it seemed to him more reasonable that a full day's discussion on Thursday and on Friday might conceivably afford a sufficient opportunity for adequately discussing the remaining Rules in the block. He did not know why the right hon. Gentleman laid such stress on Thursday. If the right hon. Gentleman adjourned now he could commence a reasonable discussion on the remaining Rules on Thursday, with the assurance that they did not intend to offer anything in the nature of friction or obstruction, and, if he were unable to finish on Thursday, let him sacrifice the ice-cream traffic in Scotland and take Friday. It seemed to him that the right hon. Gentleman's attitude was thoroughly unreasonable, and he would appeal to him in his own interest not to remain obdurate but to accept the suggestion that had been made.

MR. CHAPLIN

said that he thought the impasse which had arisen was the result of a misconception. He himself understood that what his right hon. friend had asked for was not an undertaking but an understanding that the whole of the present block of Rules should be completed on Thursday, but it would be impossible on the spur of the moment to enter into any such arrangement as that. His right hon. friend knew that there were three or four Rules which had been partially dealt with, and which remained to be completed, and that many important matters remained to be discussed on the other Rules. With regard to the Rule as to the adjournment of the House, he was not looking at it from the present time point of view, but he was looking forward to the time, he believed with some wisdom, for it was sure to happen sooner or later, when Members now sitting on that side of the House would be sitting on the other side, and then the Rule would be a matter of the most supreme importance. The right hon. Gentleman said that apart from private business really very little more required to be done, but, surely private business in its present position was a question of enormous importance, and they ought not to be asked to pledge themselves to deal with it in one day's sitting in addition to a, number of other matters. Personally, he could say that in the course of his career he had never obstructed business, and that he had taken part in the discussion of these Rules not from any motive of obstruction. He thought that the right hon. Gentleman would act wisely in his own interest and in the interest of his Party and of good feeling in the House if he accepted the Motion for the adjournment. It was really the first occasion in his recollection that a Minister had ever attempted to force a change of procedure down the throats of the House of Commons. When Mr. Gladstone made his great changes in procedure, although the proposals were introduced earlier in the session than had been done on the present occasion, their consideration was not completed until the following October, notwithstanding the fact that they were far less numerous than those now proposed. He hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would come to some arrangement, and not enter upon what was bound to he a more or less controversial subject at half-past two in the morning, when no necessity whatever could be shown for so extreme a course.

(2.32.) MR. DILLON

could not understand the extreme tenderness of the First Lord with regard to Thursday. While there was no intention of unduly protracting the discussion on Thursday, he failed to see why, if necessary, the consideration of the Rules could not he continued on Friday. In view of the character of the remainder of the Rules it was impossible for anyone to give an undertaking—if they intended honestly to abide by it, as the Irish had always done—that the discussion should he concluded on Thursday at a reasonable hour. Whether or not that end was achieved depended entirely upon the spirit and manner in which hon. Members were met by the First Lord. It was very likely, if the discussion proceeded on Thursday on the same lines as had been the case on the last two nights, the Rules would be finished by common consent. But if a different spirit was shown and no concessions made, the debate would necessarily be prolonged. It was impossible to conduct a discussion of this kind without irritation and the use of the closure unless, there was give and take on both sides. When, earlier in the proceedings, the First Lord made a considerable concession, the suggestion was immediately made that, in recognition of that con cession, the further discussion on the Rule——

MR. SPEAKER

I do not think this is really relevant to the question of adjournment.

MR. DILLON

said he would not pursue the point. He would simply remind the Government that it was never too late to mend, and urge them, in the interests of the progress of business on Thursday, and in order that the consideration of the Rules might be concluded in the same temper that had hitherto obtained, to consent to the adjournment. He had never known a similar discussion to be conducted with such good temper as, on the whole, the present had been, and the right hon. Gentleman would be well-advised in now allowing Members to go home to bed.

MR. LOUGH

trusted the First Lord would be satisfied with the assurances he had received. Undoubtedly, there was some misunderstanding at a quarter past one, but the right hon. Gentleman had now obtained, both from hon. Members sitting behind him as well as from Gentlemen on the Opposition side, every promise that be could fairly expect. He had been assured that there would be no obstruction, and that very likely the Rules would be finished on Thursday—at any rate, that the discussion would be carried on with every disposition to get the Rules through if possible. The First Lord should also remember his statement at the commencement of the proceedings that it was not intended to sit far into the night. It was now twenty minutes to three o'clock, and nobody could deny that good work had been done.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

desired to join in the appeal which had been made. It was well known that he was no friend of these new Rules, but it would be acknowledged that he had discussed them not in any spirit of obstruction, and that he had on many occasions assisted the Government as far as he could, and made appeals, which had not been ineffective, to hon. Members to refrain from dividing the House or further pressing matters. The Rules which remained were extremely important. Many very debatable questions were involved, and, if not properly debated, the Rules would inevitably lead to horrible confusion. It would be far better to give extra time to the consideration of the Rules now, than to run the risk of their breaking down hereafter. Some of the Rules were almost equivalent to an Act of Parliament, in the amount of detailed consideration they required, and nobody could say with certainty that the whole of the remaining proposals could be disposed of in one day. If the right hon. Gentleman could not give Friday to the Rules, why not give Monday? The Leader of the House came down with twenty-four proposals: of those twenty-four some twelve were to be persevered in; of those twelve some of the most important yet remained to be dealt with.

MR. SPEAKER

The remarks of the hon Gentleman hardly touch the question of adjournment.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

said that personally he should suffer considerably if the sitting was continued, because at two o'clock he had to attend the Public Accounts Committee, and, before that hour he must prepare himself for the duty he had then to discharge by going through the accounts. It would be a pity if, after the manner in which the debate had been conducted, instead of separating in an amiable and friendly spirit, Members went away with any feeling of animosity.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said it was very difficult to carry out the views of hon. Gentlemen, because they were so indefinite. The interpretation given by the hon. Member for West Islington of the remarks which had fallen from both sides of the House was that the Rules might be got through, though Members could not pledge themselves to that result. If anything approaching that had been said an hour and a half ago, or if he had understood it to be said—he did not think it was said—they might have been in bed by this time. Unless they came to that point he did not see how they could do anything but go on.

MR. FLYNN

said it was most unreasonable to insist on proceeding with the consideration of a fresh Rule when Members were naturally tired and fatigued after a long day's work. The ordinary Wednesday sitting was to commence at noon: was no regard to be paid to the officials of the House? If the right hon. Gentleman had met Members in a proper spirit, there was every reason to believe that satisfactory progress would have been made on Thursday.

MR. MACVEAGH

appealed to the First Lord of the Treasury in regard to the hardships which would be inflicted upon the officials of the House by the adoption of this course. [Cries of "Divide, divide."] From his own standpoint he had no wish to prolong the sitting, for he had been at work since 10.80. He was a teetotaler himself, and he had not had as many refreshments as some hon. Gentlemen opposite. [Ministerial cries of "Order, order!"]

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member must keep to the question.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place, and claimed to move—"That the Question be now put."

(2.48.) Question put—" That the Question be now put."

The House divided:—Ayes, 161; Noes, 92. (Division List No. 153.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F.	Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor.)	Fisher, William Hayes
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte	Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden	Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.	Forster, Henry William
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r	Galloway, William Johnson
Archdale, Edward Mervyn	Chapman, Edward	Gardner, Ernest
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.	Collings, Rt. Hon Jesse	Gordon Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn)
Arrol, Sir William	Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready	Gore, tin. GRC. Ormsby-(Salop
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole	Goschen, Hn. George Joachim
Bain, Colonel James Robert	Compton, Lord Alwyne	Green, Walford D. (Wednesbr'y
Balcarres, Lord	Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)	Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North.)	Gretton, John
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Cranborne, Viscount	Greville, Hon. Ronald
Balfour, Rt.Hn. Gerald W (Leeds	Dalkeith, Earl of	Groves, James Grimble
Beckett, Ernest William	Denny, Colonel	Hambro, Charles Eric
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Dickson, Charles Scott	Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G (Midd'x
Bignold, Arthur	Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Doughty, George	Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith-	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Hay, Hon. Claude George
Brassey, Albert	Doxford, Sir William Theodore	Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton	Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.
Brymer, William Ernest	Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward	Higginbottom, S. W.
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs)	Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brights'de
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Finch, George H.	Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry
Johnston, William (Belfast)	Melville, Beresford Valentine	Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex)	Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh)	Molesworth, Sir Lewis	Smith, H. C. (North'd. Tyneside
Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop	Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)	Smith, James Parker (Lanarks
Keswick, William	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy	Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Knowles, Lees	More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)	Spear, John Ward
Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Morgan, David J (W'lthamstow	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)	Morrell, George Herbert	Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)
Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth)	Morrison, James Archibald	Stanley, Lord (Lancs)
Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Lawson, John Grant	Murray, Rt. Hn. A Graham (Bute	Stock, James Henry
Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareh'm	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)	Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)	Newdigate, Francis Alexander	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Nicholson, William Graham	Thornton, Percy M.
Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie	Nicol, Donald Ninian	Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Lockwood, Lt-Col. A. R.	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens	Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Long, Lt.-Col. A. R.	Parkes, Ebenezer	Valentia, Viscount
Long, Rt. Hon. Walter (Bristol, S	Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Peel, Hn Wm. Robert Wellesley	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
Lowe, Francis William	Pretyman, Ernest George	Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunt'n
Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale)	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward	Welby, Sir-Charles G. E (Notts)
Loyd, Archie Kirkman	Purvis, Robert	Whiteley, H (Ashton-und. Lyne
Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft	Reid, James (Greenock)	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth	Remnant, James Farquharson	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Macartney, Rt. Hn. W. G. Ellison	Renwick, George	Wilson, A. Stanley (York. E. R.)
Macdona, John Cumming	Richards, Henry Charles	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.)	Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W	Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)	TELLERSS FOR THE AYES—
Manners, Lord Cecil	Russell, T. W.	Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh.	Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)	Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.)	O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Asher, Alexander	Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)	O'Shee, James John
Atherley-Jones, L.	Joyce, Michael	Paulton, James Mellor
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Lambert, George	Pirie, Duncan V.
Blake, Edward	Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.)	Power, Patrick Joseph
Roland, John	Leese, Sir Joseph F (Accrington)	Price, Robert John
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn	Leigh, Sir Joseph	Priestley, Arthur
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James	Levy, Maurice	Reckitt, Harold James
Burke, E. Haviland-	Lough, Thomas	Reddy, M.
Caldwell, James	Lundon, W.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Channing, Francis Allston	MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.	Rigg, Richard
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Condon, Thomas Joseph	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Roe, Sir Thomas
Crean, Eugene	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Delany, William	M'Crae, George	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Dillon, John	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)
Doogan, P. C.	M'Kean, John	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Edwards, Frank	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Emmott, Alfred	Mansfield, Horace Rendall	Soares, Ernest J.
Evans, Samuel T. (Gl'amorgan)	Murphy, John	Spencer, Rt. Hn C. R. (Northants
Ffrench, Peter	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Sullivan, Donal
Flavin, Michael Joseph	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Flynn, James Christopher	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipper'y, Mid	Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Fuller, J. M. F.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Gilhooly, James	O'Brien, P. J (Tipperary, N.)	Weir, James Galloway
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick)	O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)	Whiteley, George (York, W. R)
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Dowd, John	Wilson, Henry J. (York. W. R.)
Hammond, John	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Hayden, John Patrick	O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-	O'Malley, William	Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan.
Helme, Norval Watson	O'Mara, James

(3.0.) Question put accordingly—That the debate be now adjourned."

The House divided:—Ayes, 93: Noes, 160. (Division List No. 154.)

AYES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)	Hobhouse, C E. H. (Bristol, E.	Paulton, James Mellor
Asher, Alexander	Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)	Pirie, Duncan V.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Joyce, Michael	Power, Patrick Joseph
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Lambert, George	Price, Robert John
Blake, Edward	Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.)	Priestley, Arthur
Boland, John	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Reckitt, Harold James
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn)	Leigh, Sir Joseph	Reddy, M.
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James	Levy, Maurice	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burke, E. Haviland-	Lough, Thomas	Rigg, Richard
Caldwell, James	Lundon, W.	Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Channing, Francis Allston	MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Russell, T. W
Condon, Thomas Joseph	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Crean, Eugene	M'Crae, George	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Delany, William	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Dillon, John	M'Kean, John	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Donelan, Captain A.	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Doogan, P. C.	Mansfield, Horace Rendall	Soares, Ernest J.
Edwards, Frank	Murphy, John	Spencer, Rt. Hn C. R. (Northants
Emmott, Alfred	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Sullivan, Donal
Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Thomas, David Alfr'd (Merthyr
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipp'r'ry, Mid	Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Ffreneh, Peter	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph	O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)	Weir, James Galloway
Flynn, James Christopher	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Fuller, J. M. F.	O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)	Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
Gilhooly, James	O'Dowd, John	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.
Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick)	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N
Hammond, John	O'Malley, William	TELLERSS FOR THE AYES—
Hayden, John Patrick	O'Mara, James	Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. M'Arthur.
Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-	O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Helme, Norval Watson	O'Shee, James John

NOES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F.	Dickson, Charles Scott	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte	Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden	Doughty, George	Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Lawrence, Wm. E. (Liverpool)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn	Doxford, Sir William Theodore	Lawson, John Grant
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton	Lee, Arthur H (Hants, Fareh'm
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.	Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward	Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)
Arrol, Sir William	Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Finch, George H.	Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie
Bain, Colonel James Robert	Fisher, William Hayes	Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.
Balcarres, Lord	Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon	Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Bristol, S.)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r	Forster, Henry William	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey	Galloway, William Johnson	Lowe, Francis William
Balfour, Rt. Hn. Gerald W (Leeds	Gardner, Ernest	Lowther, C. (Cumb. Eskdale)
Beckett, Ernest William	Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick	Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Gordon, Hn. J E (Elgin & Nairn	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft
Bignold, Arthur	Gore, Hn. GRC. Ormsby-(Salop	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsm'th
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Goschen, Hon. George Joachim	Macartney, Rt. Hn. WG Ellison
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith-	Green, Walford D (Wednesbury	Macdona, John Cumming
Brassey, Albert	Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs	M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Gretton, John	M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Ed'nb'rgh W.
Brymer, William Ernest	Greville, Hon. Ronald	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.)	Groves, James Grimble	Manners, Lord Cecil
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Hambro, Charles Eric	Maxwell, W J H (Dumfriesshire
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G. (Mid'x	Melville, Beresford Valentine
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich	Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm.	Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.	Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd	Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Chamberlain, J Austen (Worcr.	Hay, Hon Claude George	Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Chapman Edward	Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.')	More, Robt Jasper (Shropshire)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse	Higginbottom, S. W.	Morgan, David J (Walthamst'w
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready	Hope, J. F. (Sheffi'ld, Brightside	Morgan, Hn Fred (Monm'thsh.
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole	Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry	Morrell, George Herbert
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Johnston, William (Belfast)	Morrison, James Archibald
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow	Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex)	Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh	Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham (Bute
Cranborne, Viscount	Keuyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Dalkeith, Earl of	Keswick, William	Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Denny, Colonel	Knowles, Lees	Nicholson, William Graham

Nicol, Donald Ninian	Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander	Valentia, Viscount
O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torroens	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Parkes, Ebenezer	Smith, H C North'mb. Tyneside	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n	Smith, James Parker (Lanarks	Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (T'nt'n
Peel, Hn. Wm. Robt. Wellesley	Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)	Welby, Sir Charles GE (Notts
Pretyman, Ernest George	Spear, John Ward	Whiteley, H (Ashton-und. Lyne
Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Purvis, Robert	Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Reid, James (Greenock)	Stanley, Lord (Lancs)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Remmant, James Farquharson	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Renwick, George	Stock, James Henry	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Richards, Henry Charles	Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Ridley, Hon. M. W. Stalybridge	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson	Thornton, Percy M.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Robertson, Herbert (Hackney	Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray	Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-	Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward

Original Question again proposed. "That the words 'on the Notice Paper' stand part of the Standing Order."

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

said he did not see what necessity there was now for altering these words. There might have been necessity when other arrangements were proposed as they were originally, but surely having regard to the Rule which the House had passed with regard to Questions, it seemed quite clear that under that Rule every one of the Questions on the Notice Paper would be disposed of—some of them by being answered immediately orally during the first forty minutes, others during the subsequent five minutes, others by being postponed, and the last of them by being brought under the order which enabled a Minister to have the answer printed and circulated with the Votes. He could see no reason for making the Amendment proposed by the right hon. Gentleman.

MR. CHAPLIN

asked whether it would now be in order to discuss the whole of the Standing Order in regard to the "Adjournment of the House."

MR. SPEAKER

The right hon. Gentleman may discuss whether the words "on the Notice Paper" shall be omitted for the purpose of putting in "allowed to be asked at the commencement of business at the afternoon sitting."

MR. CHAPLIN

As each Rule has been reached, I thought we had commenced with a general discussion on the whole Rule.

MR. SPEAKER

There has been no general discussion where there has been a series of Amendments on an existing Standing Order, but where there has been a new Standing Order proposed there has been a general discussion. Where there is only an Amendment to an existing Standing Order, the discussion must be confined to that Amendment.

MR. CHARLES HOBHOUSE

said he understood the Speaker to rule at the commencement of the last Amendment which was before the House that it was competent to have a general discussion on the Rule.

MR. SPEAKER

When an Amendment is moved, it can, of course, be discussed. This is a very small Amendment, and can only be discussed as far as it goes. It is really put in as a consequential Amendment.

MR. BLAKE

said it appeared to him that the suggestion of the hon. Member for King's Lynn was deserving of attention. It was obvious that something would have to be done under the Rule in connection with the former arrangement about Questions, because under that arrangement a certain number of Questions only were to be disposed of at the afternoon sitting, and the remainder were to be postponed. But that was not the ease under the present proposal, as all the Questions on the Notice Paper would have to be answered either verbally or in print.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said it was merely a question of drafting, and he ventured to think that the drafting he suggested was better than that which found favour with the two hon. Gentlemen. It was a matter which might be disputed for a long time, but it was perfectly clear and explicit, and he would ask the House not to waste time over a purely drafting matter.

(3.18.) Question put—"That the words 'on the Notice Paper' stand part of the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 87; Noes, 157. (Division List No.155.)

AYES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)	Helme, Norval Watson	O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Asher, Alexander	Jones, William (C'rnarvonshire	O'Shee, James John
Atherley-Jones, L.	Joyce, Michael	Pirie, Duncan V.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.)	Power, Patrick Joseph
Blake, Edward	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Price, Robert John
Boland, John	Leigh, Sir Joseph	Priestley, Arthur
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn)	Levy, Maurice	Reddy, M.
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James	Lough, Thomas	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burke, E. Haviland-	Lundon, W.	Rigg, Richard
Caldwell, James	MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Channing, Francis Allston	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Condon, Thomas Joseph	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Crean, Eugene	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Delany, William	M'Crae, George	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Dillon, John	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Donelan, Captain A.	M'Kean, John	Soares, Ernest J.
Doogan, P. C.	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Spencer, Rt. Hn. C R (Northants
Edwards, Frank	Mansfield, Horace Rendall	Sullivan, Donal
Emmott, Alfred	Murphy, John	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.
Ffrench, Peter	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipper'ry, Mid	Weir, James Galloway
Flavin, Michael Joseph	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	White, Patrick
Flynn, James Christopher	O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)	Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
Gilhooly, James	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John	O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick)	O'Dowd, John	TELLERSS FOR THE AYES—
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)	Mr. Charles Hobhouse and Mr. Fuller.
Hammond, John	O'Kell, Jam's (Roscommon, N.
Hayden, John Patrick	O'Malley, William
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-	O'Mara, James
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F.	Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse	Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte	Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready	Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden	Compton, Lord Alwyne	Hay, Hon. Claude. George
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)	Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley
Archdale, Edward Mervyn	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Cranborne, Viscount	Higginbottom, S. W.
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.	Dalkeith, Earl of	Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside
Arrol, Sir William	Denny, Colonel	Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Dickson, Charles Scott	Johnston, William (Belfast)
Bain, Colonel James Robert	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh)
Balcarres, Lord	Doxford, Sir William Theodore	Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r	Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton	Keswick, William
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward	Knowles, Lees
Balfour, Rt. HnGerald W. (Leeds	Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.
Beckett, Ernest William	Finch, George H.	Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth)
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Fisher, William Hayes	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Bignold, Arthur	Fitzroy, Hon. Edwaid Algernon	Lawson, John Grant
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Forster, Henry William	Lee, Arthur. H (Hants., Fareham
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith-	Galloway, William Johnson	Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)
Brassey, Albert	Gardner, Ernest	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick	Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie
Brymer, William Ernest	Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn	Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.)	Gore, Hn G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire	Goschen, Hon. George Joachim	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Green, Walford D. (Wednesbury	Lowe, Francis William
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.	Lowther, C. (Camb., Eskdale)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.	Gretton, John	Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r	Greville, Hon. Ronald	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	Groves, J. Grimble	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth)
Chapman, Edward	Hambro, Charles Eric	Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G (Midd'x	Macdona, John Cumming
M'Calmont, Col. J (Antrim, E.)	Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington)	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W.	Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley	Stock, James Henry
M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Pretyman, Ernest George	Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Manners, Lord Cecil	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Maxwell, W. T. H (Dumfriesshire	Purvis, Robert	Thornton, Percy M.
Melville, Beresford Valentine	Reid, James (Greenock)	Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.	Remnant, James Farquharson	Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Molesworth, Sir Lewis	Renwick, George	Valentia, Viscount
Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)	Richards, Henry Charles	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Moon, Edward Robert Pacy	Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)	Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. Thomson	Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunton
Morgann, David J. (Walthamstow	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)	Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.)
Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh.)	Russell, T. W.	Whiteley, H (Ashton-und.-Lyne
Morrell, George Herbert	Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Morrison, James Archibald	Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Graham (Bute	Smith, H. C (N'rth'mb, Tyneside	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)	Smith, James Parker (Lanark)	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Newdigate, Francis Alexander	Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Nicholson, William Graham	Spear, John Ward	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Nicol, Donald Ninian	Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk	Sir William Walrondand Mr. Anstruther.
O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens	Stanley, Edward J as. (Somerset)
Parkes, Ebenezer	Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)

(3.29.) Question put—"That the words 'asked at the commencement of business' be there inserted in the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 158; Noes, 88. (Division List No. 156.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F.	Dickson, Charles Scott	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte	Doughty, George	Lawson, John Grant
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Doxford, Sir William Theodore	Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn	Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward	Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.	Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Lock wood, Lt.-Col. A. R.
Arrol, Sir William	Finch, George H.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Fisher, William Hayes	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Bain, Colonel James Robert	Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon	Lowe, Francis William
Balcarres, Lord	Forster, Henry William	Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale)
Balfour, Rt Hon. A. J. (Manch'r)	Galloway, William Johnson	Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Gardner, Ernest	Lucas, col. Francis (Lowestoft)
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds	Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth
Beckett, Ernest William	Gordon, Hn J. E (Elgin & Nairn)	Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Gore, Hn G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop	Macdona, John Cumming
Bignold, Arthur	Goschen, Hon. George Joachim	M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.)
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Green, Walford D. (Wedn'sbury	M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith-	Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.)	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)
Brassey, Albert	Gretton, John	Manners, Lord Cecil
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Greville, Hon. Ronald	Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh.)
Brymer, William Ernest	Groves, James Grimble	Melville, Beresford Valentine
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.)	Hanrbro, Charles Eric	Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (D'rbyshire	Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G. (Mid'x	Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Haubury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.	Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.	Hay, Hon. Claude George	More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r	Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley	Morgan, David J. (Walth'mst'w
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	Heath, Jame-(Staffords., N. W.	Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh.
Chapman, Edward	Higginbottom, S. W.	Morrell, George Herbert
Cochrane, Hon. Tiros. H. A. E.	Hope, J. F. (Sheffield. Brightside	Morrison, James Archibald
Collings, Rt. Hon Jesse	Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry	Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready	Johnston, William (Belfast)	Murray, Rt. Hn A. Graham (Bute
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)	Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop)	Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Keswick, William	Nicholson, William Graham
Cranborne, Viscount	Knowles, Lees	Nicol, Donald Ninian
Dalkeith, Earl of	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Denny, Colonel	Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth)	Parkes, Ebenezer
Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)	Smith, H C (North'mb, Tyneside	Wason, John Catbcart (Orkney
Peel, Hn Wm. Robert Wellesley	Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.	Welby, Lt.-Col. A C E (Taunton
Pretyman, Ernest George	Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)	Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.
Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward	Spear, John Ward	Whiteley, H. (Ashtonund. Lyne
Purvis, Robert	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Reid, James (Greenock)	Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Remnant, James Farquharson	Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Renwick, George	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Richards, Henry Charles	Stock, James Henry	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge	Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)	Thornton, Percy M.	TELLERSS FOR THE AYES—
Russell, T. W.	Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray	Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-	Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander	Valentia, Viscount
Seely, Charles Hilcon (Lincoln)	Warde, Colonel C. E.
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)	Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-	O'Malley, William
Asher, Alexander	Helme, Norval Watson	O'Mara, James
Atherley-Jones, L.	Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.)	O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire)	O'Shee, James John
Blake, Edward	Joyce, Michael	Power, Patrick Joseph
Boland, John	Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.)	Price, Robert John
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn)	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington)	Priestley, Arthur
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James	Leigh, Sir Joseph	Reckitt, Harold James
Burke, E. Haviland-	Levy, Maurice	Reddy, M.
Caldwell, James	Lough, Thomas	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Channing, Francis Allston	Lundon, W.	Rigg, Richard
Condon, Thomas Joseph	MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Crean, Eugene	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Delany, William	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Dillon, John	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Donelan, Captain A.	M'Crae, George	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Doogan, P. C.	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Edwards, Frank	M'Kean, John	Soares, Ernest J.
Emmott, Alfred	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R. (Northants
Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Mansfield, Horace Rendall	Sullivan, Donal
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	Murphy, John	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr)
Ffrench, Peter	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings)
Flavin, Michael Joseph	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Flynn, James Christopher	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid	Weir, James Galloway
Fuller, J. M. F.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Gilhooly, James	O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)	Wilson, Henry J. (York. W. R.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick)	O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Dowd, John	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Hammond, John	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)	Mr. Pirie and Mr. George Whiteley.
Hayden, John Patrick	O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.

Amendment proposed to the Standing Order— In line 5, after the word 'place,' to insert the words 'at an afternoon sitting.'"—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question proposed—" That the words 'at an afternoon sitting' be there inserted."

(3.40.) MR GIBSON BOWLES

said that at present there was nothing in the Standing Order which precluded a Motion for adjournment at a Wednesday sitting, and as the old Wednesday business was to be shifted to Friday, he thought the privilege of moving the adjournment ought to be retained for Friday sittings. The urgency which made a Motion for the adjournment proper might arise or only come to the knowledge of a Member on Friday morning. Surely it would require no particular argument to show that it ought to be possible to make a Motion for the adjournment at the morning sitting on Friday. He thought there was a certain importance in his proposal, as a Motion for the adjournment was almost the only independent action now left to hon. Members. It could only be moved when it concerned a matter of public importance and was urgent, and it ought to be possible to discuss it on Friday as well as on any other day of the week. It was rather more important on Friday than on the other days, because after Friday followed Saturday and Sunday. [An Hon. Member laughed. The education of the Tory Party was becoming quite marvellous, and he was sure the hon. Member would follow him in his argument that as two dies non followed Friday it was more important that a Motion for the adjournment should be discussed on that day than on other days.

Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment— To insert, after the word 'afternoon,' the words 'or morning.'"—(Mr. Gibson Bowles.)

Question proposed—" That those words be there inserted in the proposed Amendment."

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said the matter was not of great importance to the Government, but he thought the House would be well advised not to accept the Amendment. It was perfectly true that there was nothing in the Standing Order which prohibited a Motion for the adjournment on Wednesday, but in the memory of man no such Motion had been moved; and if Motions for the adjournment were to be moved at morning sittings in future, it would lead to considerable inconvenience.

MR. T. W. RUSSELL

remembered an occasion in connection with the Land Bill of 1896, when the adjournment was moved at twelve o'clock.

MR. BRYCE

said that his impression was, that on a famous day in 1881, when the Coercion Bill was being taken, the adjournment was moved at midday.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

thought it was a point of some importance to private Members, because if the first part of a sitting was occupied by a discussion on a Motion for adjournment, the time left for the consideration of whatever private Member's Bill was down for discussion would be so short that the closure would not be granted at the end of the sitting, and thus a very effective method of preventing the consideration of an unpopular Bill would be provided. As far as the Government were concerned, they did not take a very strong view either way. Another point was, that it was the usual, though not the invariable, practice for Motions for adjournment to be preceded by a Question to the Minister concerned. Of course, such Questions on this particular day would not lead to any answer.

Amendment to proposed Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(3.50.) Question put—" That the words 'at an afternoon sitting' be there inserted in the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 154; Noes, 87. (Division List No. 157.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F.	Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse
Agg-Garduer, James Tynte	Bignold, Arthur	Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden	Blundell, Colonel Henry	Compton, Lord Alwyne
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Boscawen, Arthur Griffith-	Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn	Brassey, Albert	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Cranborne, Viscount
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.	Brymer, William Ernest	Dalkeith, Earl of
Arrol, Sir William	Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.)	Denny, Colonel
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire)	Dickson, Charles Scott
Bain, Colonel James Robert	Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Doughty, George
Balcarres, Lord	Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r	Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.)	Doxford, Sir William Theodore
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r	Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds	Chapman, Edward	Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward
Beckett, Ernest William	Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst
Finch, George, H.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S)	Renwick, George
Fisher, William Hayes	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Richards, Henry Charles
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon	Lowe, Francis William	Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge
Forster, Henry William	Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale)	Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Galloway, William Johnson	Loyd, Archie Kirkman	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Gardner, Ernest	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)	Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth)	Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn)	Macartney, Rt. Hn. W. G. Ellison	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Gore, Hn. G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop	Macdona, John Cumming	Smith, H. C (North'mb, Tyneside
Goschen, Hon. George Joachim	M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.)	Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Green, Walford D. (Wednesbury	M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W	Spear, John Ward
Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.)	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk
Gretton, John	Manners, Lord Cecil	Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset)
Greville, Hon. Ronald	Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh.)	Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Groves, James Grimble	Melville, Beresford Valentine	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Hambro, Charles Eric	Milner, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G.	Stock, James Henry
Hamilton, Rt. HnLordG (Midd'x	Molesworth, Sir Lewis	Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.	Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford	More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)	Thornton, Percy M.
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley	Morgan, David J. (Walth'mstow	Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.)	Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh.	Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Higginbottom, S. W.	Morrell, George Herbert	Valentia, Viscount
Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside	Morrison, James Archibald	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry	Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.	Wason, John Cathcart (Orknev)
Johnston, William (Belfast)	Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Grah'm (Bute	Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunton
Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh)	Murray, Charles J. (Covcntrj')	Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.)
Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop.	Newdigate, Francis Alexander	Whiteley, H (Ashton-und.-Lyne
Keswick, William	Nicholson, William Graham	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Knowles, Lees	Nicol, Donald Ninian	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Lambton, Hn. Frederick Wm.	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth)	Parkes, Ebenezer	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Lawson, John Grant	Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley
Lee, Arthur H. (Hants., Fareham	Pretyman, Ernest George
Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward	TELLERSS FOR THE AYES—
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Purvis, Robert	Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie	Reid, James (Greenock)
Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.	Remnant, James Farquharson
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)	Helme, Norval Watson	O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Asher, Alexander	Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.	O'Shee, James John
Atherley-Jones, L.	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Power, Patrick Joseph
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Joyce, Michael	Price, Robert John
Blake, Edward	Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.)	Priestley, Arthur
Boland, John	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Reckitt, Harold James
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn	Leigh, Sir Joseph	Reddy, M.
Burke, E. Haviland-	Levy, Maurice	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Caldwell, James	Lundon, W.	Rigg, Richard
Channing, Francis Allston	MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Russell, T. W.
Condon, Thomas Joseph	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Crean, Eugene	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Delany, William	M'Crae, George	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Dillon, John	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Donelan, Captain A.	M'Kean, John	Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Doogan, P. C.	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Soares, Ernest J.
Edwards, Frank	Mansfield, Horace Rendall	Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R (Northants
Emmott, Alfred	Murphy, John	Sullivan, Donal
Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr)
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings)
Ffrench, Peter	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid	Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Weir, James Galloway
Flynn, James Christopher	O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Fuller, J. M. F.	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	Wilson, Henry J. (Vork, W. R.)
Gilhooly, James	O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	O'Dowd, John
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Hammond, John	O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.	Mr. Pirie and Mr. George Whiteley.
Hayden, John Patrick	O'Malley, William
Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-	O'Mara, James

Amendment proposed to the Standing Order— At the end, to add the words, 'If the Motion is so supported, or the House so determines that it shall be made, it shall stand over until the evening sitting of the same day.'"—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question proposed—"That those words be there added to the Standing Order."

(4.0.) MR. CHAPLIN

said that the Leader of the House had himself admitted that he considered the power of moving the adjournment as a safety valve which it was necessary to provide, and the right hon. Gentleman proposed to do this by allowing Motions for adjournment to be made at the evening sittings alone. Limited in that way, Motions for the adjournment must lose at least half their value and half their effective force. Motions of this kind, to be effective, must command the attention of the Government. Would they command that attention if they were limited to the evening sittings? The Government were to have four morning sittings, and the chances were that Motions for the adjournment would fall upon one of the private Members' nights, in which case it would be a matter of indifference to the Government whether the adjournment was moved and carried or not. If there was little time left after the adjournment was over, the Government would care even less. But supposing it were moved on a Government evening, and the debate lasted some time. Another difficulty was that adjournments were often moved because of unsatisfactory answers given to Questions. In the future it would not always be within their power to move the adjournment if an hon. Member was dissatisfied with a reply given to his Question. The answers to some Questions would only be circulated in print. The result would be that a blocking notice might be put on the Paper, and the right of hon. Members to exercise the safety valve which the right hon. Gentleman had provided for them would be lost and would be totally ineffective. When he pointed out this difficulty before, the right hon. Gentleman said he would make a proposal to prevent it, if necessary; but nothing had been done. On his own showing it seemed to him that the proposal made by the right hon. Gentleman failed in its purpose. He was very anxious indeed to preserve what was undoubtedly a most valuable privilege. He proposed this Amendment to limit the operation of the Rule to cases where there had not been more than three Motions for adjournment during the session. That would preserve to them some of their rights, if they could not keep the whole, and it would leave it within the power of hon. Members to make three effective Motions of adjournments. He was quite aware that it was impossible to carry any proposal of that kind against the legions which the right hon. Gentleman had had at his back, although at the present moment those legions were not very numerous. [MINISTERIAL Cries of "Oh, Oh!"] He did not know whether hon. Members who cried "Oh, oh!" had heard the figures in the division which had just been read out. At present they were dealing with a proposal to deprive the House of one of its most important powers, and they were doing this in a House which contained not more than one-third of its Members at an hour when no one could have expected it—between three and four in the morning. He was astonished that hon. Gentlemen on his own side were so ready to part with a weapon which they had always found of the utmost value when they were in a minority in the House of Commons. He thought they would live to regret parting with this weapon. He begged to move his Amendment.

Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment— After the word 'made,' in line 2, to insert the words 'and a similar Motion has not been made three times during that session, it shall be taken at an afternoon sitting otherwise.'"—(Mr. Chaplin).

Question proposed—" That those words be there inserted in the Amendment proposed to the Standing Order. '

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said that his right hon. friend must be aware that it was impossible for the Government to accept the Amendment he had proposed. If Motions for adjournment were worth anything at all, why stop three? If it were true, as his right hon. friend seemed to suppose, that a Motion for adjournment lost all its importance by being carried over to nine o'clock in the evening, then he thought that, to be consistent, the right hon. Gentleman ought to lay this down as a general proposition. His own view was that the Amendment ought not to be accepted, because it was entirely based on false reasons. His right hon. friend appeared to suppose that the whole virtue of a Motion for adjournment consisted in the fact that it ended by a division which would prevent further business being proceeded with that night, and that that was the danger which hung over the Government when the adjournment was moved. In that view his right hon. friend was entirely mistaken. The inconvenience was not confined to the Government, it extended to the whole House. It was not for the public convenience that when business had to be got through any portion of their time should be absolutely wasted. The reason why a Motion for adjournment was a useful weapon in the hands of the critics of the Government was that it enabled forty Members, without notice, to raise any question they chose and to debate it at any length. He ventured to say that the brief notice that would be given under this rule would be a great advantage. He thought this would be an advantage not merely to the Government, but also to hon. Members of the House. In those cases in which the House really wished to have a full account of the transactions in respect of which the Government were called to account, it was really most important that the Minister who was to be attacked should have some opportunity of getting up the facts and mastering the case which he had got to present to the House. Consider for a moment the extraordinary inconsistency of their present practice. They all agreed that some notice should be given of Questions, and they were all agreed that some considerable time should be devoted to Questions. The Government could not pass any resolution without giving a day's notice, but the House might have a Motion for adjournment on a complicated issue, and about which the Minister incriminated might have very little information. That could be brought before the House, without warning to anybody, after the Questions were over. He objected to the Amendment in the interest of sound debate. He asked the House to recollect that a Minister might say, "If I had been told of this I could have answered the case." Perhaps it would not have been a good answer, but that excuse would be removed by the system now proposed. He could not see that any loss occurred to the other side. The privilege of moving the adjournment appeared to him to remain not only unimpaired, but the system which he proposed to the House left absolutely untouched those valuable hours in which the most important part of their debates were carried on, and which at present were subject to very serious invasion at the hands of any section of the House which desired to invade them. What he had proposed was really an essential part of the general scheme of business.

MR. CHARLES HOBHOUSE

said the right hon. Gentleman proposed to put off the discussion, and to curtail the time in regard to Motions for the adjournment of the House, It seemed to him that what the right hon. Gentleman called sound debate was impossible under a system which limited the statement of the hon. Member who moved the adjournment, and the Minister who replied, to a single hour. In that hour it would be almost impossible to develop the case.

(4.20.) MR. DILLON

said the only difficulty he had in supporting the Amendment, was that it did not go far enough. The First Lord of the Treasury had adopted an attitude which he could not understand at all. He had spoken of the sacred four and a half hours between three and half past seven, and he seemed to attach extraordinary and exceptional importance to them. The right hon. Gentleman claimed that the value of the Rule rested upon the retaining of these hours for Government business. Why was there any particular virtue in these four and a half hours as against the three hours between twelve and three? Anyone who had studied the Rules would see that the throwing off of the Motion for adjournment till nine o'clock really deprived the House of the weapon of adjournment for dealing with the executive. This proposal would be an enormous gain to the Government. The hon. Member asked the House to consider what would have happened a few nights ago if the proposed Rule had been in force when the adjournment of the House was moved with respect to the Cartwright case. The hon. Member for the Montrose Burghs would have spoken to almost empty benches at nine o'clock, and the Motion would have been stifled, snuffed out, and extinguished between then and ten o'clock. The Leader of the House asked them to accept the proposition that a Motion for adjournment would be more effective if put off till nine o'clock. In saying so, he was presuming on the ignorance of people who had not studied the Rules at all. The evident expectation of the framers of the Rules was that the hour between nine and ten would be a dead hour in the House, because it was provided that the House could not be counted out then. A Motion for adjournment proposed then would be a farce. What the Ministry wanted was to get rid of the Motion for adjournment altogether, because it was a dangerous weapon. They were afraid to come before the House frankly and say that this was their object. They took the roundabout device by which the Motion for adjournment would be not frankly killed but relegated to a period of the evening when it would become a farce. In the past the Motion for adjournment had not been abused. He had over and over again exerted his influence to prevent his colleagues from moving the adjournment, because he felt that if the weapon was abused it would eventually be destroyed. It was too valuable to throw away in this manner. He considered it to be a public scandal that they should be compelled to debate this important question in a thin House at this hour, when they should be asleep. He did not think there ever had been a case before when the House had been forced to debate an all-important and vital issue like this at such an hour in such a slender House.

MR. GEORGE WHITELEY

said he desired to ask the ruling of the Chair with regard to the question they were discussing. He understood that they were only discussing the Amendment of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Sleaford Division, and he took it that an ample opportunity would arise later to discuss the whole question.

MR. SPEAKER

On this Amendment the hon. Gentleman can practically discuss the importance of not limiting the right to an afternoon sitting.

(4.35.) MR. PIRIE (Aberdeen, N.)

said he desired to enter his protest against what, to his mind, was a grave and serious scandal. Their constituents sent them to Parliament to remedy public grievances, and there were no better means of doing that than by the privilege, which had existed almost from time immemorial, of moving the adjournment of the House. He protested against such an important question as this being dealt with at such an hour of the morning, when the House was physically unable to exercise a sound judgment on the matter. He hoped, therefore, that the Leader of the House would yield to the representations which had been made to him, and adjourn the debate. He begged to move "That the debate be now adjourned."

MR. SPEAKER,

being of opinion that the Motion was an abuse of the Rules of the House, declined to propose the Question thereupon to the House.

Debate resumed.

MR. McCRAE (Edinburgh, E.)

said it seemed to him that there was really not very much difference between the view taken by the First Lord of the Treasury and the view taken on that side of the House. They were discussing a very important matter, and anything affecting the right of a Member to move the adjournment of the House should be very carefully considered. He submitted that the right hon. Gentleman ought to be satisfied with the progress he had already made, and he, therefore, begged to move the adjournment of the debate.

MR. SPEAKER

I believe the House quite understood, when it divided on the last Motion for the adjournment of the debate, that it was dividing on the question as to whether the discussion on this Rule should be concluded or not.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

Do I understand you, Sir, to rule that when this House has decided against a Motion for the adjournment of the debate, it has decided, in effect, that it will carry to the bitter end all the subjects under discussion?

MR. SPEAKER

No, I said I thought that was the view of the House. Perhaps I should have qualified that by saying, assuming that the debate did not extend to a very unreasonable length.

MR. JOHN REDMOND

May I ask whether your ruling amounts to this, that the House, having taken that view in the last division, you will go the length of ruling that any Motion for the adjournment now is an abuse of the forms of the House? Otherwise, I say you are bound to put the Motion.

MR. SPEAKER

At this moment, I say it is an abuse.

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR

said that as a decision had now been given which practically meant that they must discuss the question fully now or not at all, be thought they had a right to ask hon. Gentlemen opposite to listen with some degree of patience to the remarks hon. Members on that side deemed it their duty to make. He was unable to reconcile the two positions taken up by the right hon. Gentleman. The right hon. Gentleman was against a Motion for the adjournment at an afternoon sitting, and at the same time he held that a Motion for the adjournment at an evening sitting was practically the same, so far as the fate and influence of the Motion was concerned. Those two positions were absolutely irreconcilable. If the time of the Government at an evening sitting were less valuable than the time of the Government at an afternoon sitting, then a Motion for the adjournment at an evening sitting was less valuable than at an afternoon sitting. Either the right hon. Gentleman's exposition was wanting in its usual lucidity, or his own fatigued brain—[an Hon. Member laughed]—it was well to have a brain equal to being fatigued—could not understand the exposition of the right hon. Gentleman; but certainly he thought the two statements were contradictory. He held that the time of an afternoon sitting was more valuable and more influential than the time of an evening sitting, and for that very reason he asked that Motions for the adjournment should be moved in the afternoon sitting. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Sleaford Division ought to have aroused in the memory of the right hon. Gentleman some very portentous recollections of the value to an Opposition of Motions for the adjournment. He remembered the historic day when Mr. Gladstone held a meeting at the Foreign Office with regard to the then pending Home Rule Bill of 1886, and the afternoon of that day, when the present Chancellor of the Exchequer moved a Motion for the adjournment, and it was the debate on that Motion that produced the final separation between the two sections of the then united Liberal Party, and in that way decided the fate of a great Government and of a great historic Party. In face of that recollection, the right hon. Gentleman, at five o'clock in the morning, with a small body of his supporters, impatient of discussion, proposed to destroy one of the greatest and most effective instruments for the protection of a minority in this House. It was in a House resounding with the trombone snores of his supporters that the right hon. Gentleman proposed to destroy one of the greatest powers of Parliament. The right hon. Gentleman maintained that Motions for the adjournment were safeguarded and preserved in all their pristine purity and integrity by the change he proposed. Did anyone imagine that the right hon. Gentleman was serious in that statement? [Mr. A. J. BALFOUR: Yes, I am.] When the right hon Gentleman said that a Motion for the adjournment at an evening sitting was practically the same as at a morning sitting, either his own powers of credence or the right hon. Gentleman's powers of acting were stretched to almost breaking point. They all knew what a nine o'clock sitting would be. His late friend Mr. Biggar used to be called "Count" Biggar, because, within thirty seconds of the Speaker taking the Chair at an evening sitting he always moved a count, and they all went home quite pleased with their free evening. But if the late Mr. Biggar were now a Member he would not have the power to move a count, because the right hon. Gentleman had taken most elaborate precautions to prevent the House being counted out. The House might only contain two Members and the Speaker, but still a count could not be moved, and he ventured to prophesy that under the new Rule there would only be an average of ten or twelve Members in the House between nine o'clock and ten o'clock, not one of them a Front Bench man. On private Members' nights, the Member who had the Motion, would, of course, be present, and he might be supported by ten or twelve friends' and although the House had no existence in the real sense of the word, it would continue to sit until ten o'clock and its life would be held by the attenuated thread of the most meagre attendance. That practically meant that from nine o'clock to ten o'clock there would be no House at all in any real effective sense. The proposition of the right hon. Gentleman was one of the most incredible and ridiculous ever advanced by a man in his position. Even if a division were taken between nine o'clock and ten o'clock, and it was shown that there were only two Members in one lobby, one in the other, and the four tellers, seven in all out of 670, even then the House would not adjourn, but would go on to the next business. He did not like to use the adjective "Machiavellian" except in a strictly Pickwickian sense, but if the Machiavellian ingenuity of the right hon. Gentleman were devoted solely to the purpose of making the period between nine o'clock and ten o'clock on a private Members' night—[Mr. A. J. BALFOUR: Or any night]—an absolute nullity and of reducing it to a farce and an absurdity, he could not have taken greater precautions than he had. The difference between a morning sitting and an evening sitting was that there was a full House at one and an empty House at the other. Did any one suppose that hon. Gentlemen would be influenced by a Motion for adjournment which they had not heard made? One of the greatest scandals connected with the House, which, however, the new Rules did not pretend to remove, was that two Gentlemen representing the different Parties could by a word, or even by a turn of the thumb, have more to do with the result of a division than the most eloquent speech; and the right hon. Gentleman, instead of making an energetic effort to reduce the crying evil, was actually aggravating and increasing it. Take the ease of Mr. Cartwright. In all his experience he had never heard a debate that had more vitality, more interest, more reality, and he thought in the end more beneficial effect, than that debate. It was a real debate, because for the moment the shackles of Party were removed and men spoke their real opinions from the depths of their conscience. The result was that a serious effect was brought to bear on the future conduct of many high persons both in England and in South Africa. Suppose the Rule they were now discussing had been then in existence, and that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose Burghs had been put off until nine o clock in the evening, he would have had to address an empty Treasury Bench and an empty House, except for the presence of a few friends and colleagues; and for all practical purposes his speech would have been as futile as if he had gone on a rock jutting out into the sea and endeavoured by the sound of his voice to subdue a storm. In face of those facts, was it not clear that what the right hon. Gentleman proposed to do was, not to destroy the right to move the adjournment—he had not the boldness to do that—but to so impair, nullify, and embarrass it as to make it practically of no consequence or power? He would ask the House to look at the question free from the spirit of Party. He knew it was very hard to ask hon. Members to do that, especially at five o'clock in the morning, when, very reasonably and properly, they thought that the supreme national interest of the moment was to get home to bed instead of having to snore on the green benches opposite. He would put it to hon. Members that there were moments in the life of a nation when it was absolutely neeessary to bring the Government of the day to account at once, and subject it to immediate and severe criticism. It was a valuable right, and a most necessary protection for the liberty of the country, and might even, on occasion, affect the national existence. That right the right hon. Gentleman was not ashamed to filch from the House of Commons at five o'clock in the morning. One of the most extraordinary proceedings of the States General during the French Revolution occurred one night, when the nobles, in a moment of expansiveness and enthusiasm, voted away all the historic rights enjoyed by their order for centuries. That night lived in French history as the night which gave France liberties she had never enjoyed before. Tonight, under the instruction and guidance of the right hon. Gentleman, the head of the great Constitutional

Party, ought to live in the annals of the House of Commons as the night in which one of the greatest privileges of its Members was filched away, when none of those Members were in a condition seriously to fight for it.

(5.0.) Mr. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question proposed, "That the Question be now put."

The House divided:—Ayes, 147; Noes, 86. (Division List No. 158.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F.	Fisher, William Hayes	Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte	Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon	Macdona, John Cumming
Allhusen, Augustus H'nry Eden	Forster, Henry William	M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Galloway, William Johnson	M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinbur'h, W
Archdale, Edward Mervyn	Gardner, Ernest	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick	Manners, Lord Cecil
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.	Gordon, Hn J. E. (Elgin & Nairn)	Maxwell, W J H (Dumfriesshire
Arrol, Sir William	Gore, Hn G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop	Melville, Beresford Valentine
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Goschen, Hon. George Joachim	Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.
Bain, Colonel James Robert	Green, Walford D (Wednesbury	Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Balcarres, Lord	Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs)	Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r	Gretton, John	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Balfour, C. B. (Hornsey)	Greville, Hon. Ronald	More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds	Groves, James Grimble	Morgan, David J (Walthamstow
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Hambro, Charles Eric	Morgan, Hn. Fred (Monm'thsh
Bignold, Arthur	Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G (Midd'x	Morrell, George Herbert
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm.	Morrison, James Archibald
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith-	Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd	Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Brassey, Albert	Heath, James (Staffords, N. W.	Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham (Bute)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Higginbottom, S. W.	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs)	Hope, J. F. (Sheffleld, Brightside	Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire	Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry	Nicholson, William Graham
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Johnston, William (Belfast)	Nicol, Donald Ninian
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh)	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.)	Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop	Peel, Hn Wm. Robert Wellesley
Chapman, Edward	Keswick, William	Pretyman, Ernest George
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Knowles, Lees	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Collings, Rt. Hn. Jesse	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Purvis, Robert
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready	Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth)	Reid, James (Greenock)
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Remnant, James Farquharson
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)	Lawson, John Grant	Richards, Henry Charles
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham	Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge)
Cranborne, Viscount	Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)	Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Dalkeith, Earl of	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Denny, Colonel	Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie	Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Dickson, Charles Scott	Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.	Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Doughty, George	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S.	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Smith, H C (North'mb, Tyneside
Doxford, Sir William Theodore	Lowe, Francis William	Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton	Lowther, C. (Cumb, Eskdale)	Spear, John Ward
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward	Loyd, Archie Kirkman	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)	Stanley, Edward Jas (Somerset)
Finch, George H.	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth	Stanley, Lord (Lancs)
Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.	Warde, Colonel C. E.	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Stock, James Henry	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier	Welby, Lt.-Col. A C E (Taunton
Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)	Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Thornton, Percy M.	Whiteley, H. (Ashton und. Lyne
Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Valentia, Viscount	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.	Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-	O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Asher, Alexander	Helme, Norval Watson	O'Shee, James John
Atherley-Jones, L.	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Power, Patrick Joseph
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Joyce, Michael	Price, Robert John
Blake, Edward	Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.	Priestley, Arthur
Boland, John	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington	Reckitt, Harold James
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn)	Leigh, Sir Joseph	Reddy, M.
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James	Levy, Maurice	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burke, E. Haviland-	Lundon, W.	Rigg, Richard
Caldwell, James	MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.	Russell, T. W.
Channing, Francis Allston	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)
Condon, Thomas Joseph	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Crean, Eugene	M'Crae, George	Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Delany, William	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Soares, Ernest J.
Dillon, John	M'Kean, John	Spencer, Rt Hn C. R. (Northants
Donelan, Captain A.	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Sullivan, Donal
Doogan, P. C.	Mansfield, Horace Rendall	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Edwards, Frank	Murphy, John	Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Emmott, Alfred	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.
Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Weir, James Galloway
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	O'Brien, Kendal (Tip'era'y, Mid	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Ffrench, Peter	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph	O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.
Flynn, James Christopher	O'Conor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Fuller, J. M. F.	O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Gilhooly, James	O'Dowd, John	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)	Mr. Pirie and Mr. Charles Hobhouse.
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.
Hammond, John	O'Malley, William
Hayden, John Patrick	O'Mara, James

(5.10.) Question put accordingly, "That those words be inserted in the Amendment to the proposed Amendment to the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 85; Noes, 148. (Division List No. 159.)

AYES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)	Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Lundon, W.
Asher, Alexander	Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Ffrench, Peter	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Flavin, Michael Joseph	MacVeagh, Jeremiah
Blake, Edward	Flynn, James Christopher	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)
Boland, John	Fuller, J. M. F.	M'Crae, George
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James	Gilholey, James	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Burke, E. Haviland-	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	M'Kean, John
Caldwell, James	Hammond, John	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)
Channing, Francis Allston	Hayden, John Patrick	Mansfield, Horace Rendall
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-	Murphy, John
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Helme, Norval Watson	Nannetti, Joseph P.
Crean, Eugene	Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Delany, William	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid
Dillon, John	Joyce, Michael	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Donelan, Captain A.	Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.	O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)
Doogan, P. C.	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington)	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Edwards, Frank	Leigh, Sir Joseph	O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Emmott, Alfred	Levy, Maurice	O'Dowd, John
O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)	Reddy, M.	Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings)
O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
O'Malley, William	Rigg, Richard	Weir, James Galloway
O'Mara, James	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
O'Suaughnessy, P. J.	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)	Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
O'Shee, James John	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Pirie, Duncan V.	Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Power, Patrick Joseph	Soares, Ernest J.
Price, Robert John	Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R. (Northants	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Priestley, Arthur	Sullivan, Donal	Mr. T. W. Russell and Mr. Gibson Bowles.
Reckitt, Harold James	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr)
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F.	Gore, Hn. G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop	Morrell, George Herbert
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte	Goschen, Hon. George Joachim	Morrison, James Archibald
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden	Green, Walford D. (Wednesbury	Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.)	Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Graham (Bute
Archdale, Edward Mervyn	Gretton, John	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Greville, Hon. Ronald	Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.	Groves, James Grimble	Nicholson, William Graham
Arrol, Sir William	Hambro, Charles Eric	Nicol, Donald Ninian
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G. (Midd'x	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bain, Colonel James Robert	Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.	Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley
Balcarres, Lord	Hardy, Laurence, (Kent, Ashford	Pretyman, Ernest George
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r.	Heath, James (Staffords., N. W.)	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Higginbottom, S. W.	Purvis, Robert
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W. (Leeds	Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside	Reid, James (Greenock)
Bentinck, Lord Henry G	Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bignold, Arthur	Johnston, William (Belfast)	Richards, Henry Charles
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh)	Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith-	Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop.	Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. Thomson
Brassey, Albert	Keswick, William	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Knowles, Lees	Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.)	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire	Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth)	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Smith, HC. (North'mb, Tyneside
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Lawson, John Grant	Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.	Lee, Arthur H. (Hants., Fareham	Spear, John Ward
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r.	Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)	Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk
Chapman, Edward	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie	Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse	Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S.	Stock, James Henry
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Sturt, Hon. Humphrey Napier
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)	Lowe, Francis William	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale)	Thornton, Percy M.
Cranborne, Viscount	Loyd, Archie Kirkman	Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Dalkeith, Earl of	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)	Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Denny, Colonel	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth)	Valentia, Viscount
Dickson, Charles Scott	Macartney, Rt Hn. W. G. Ellison	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Doughty, George	Macdona, John Cumming	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.)	Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E. (Taunt'n
Doxford, Sir William Theodore	M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W	Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Whiteley, H. (Ashton-und-Lyne
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward	Manners, Lord Cecil	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Maxwell, WJ. H (Dumfriesshire	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Finch, George H.	Melville, Beresford Valentine	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Fisher, William Hayes	Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G.	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon	Molesworth, Sir Lewis	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Forster, Henry William	Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Galloway, William Johnson	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Gardner, Ernest	More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick	Morgan, David J. (Walthamstow	Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn	Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh.

(5.20.) Mr. A. J. BALFOUR

claimed, "That the words 'If the Motion is so supported, or the House so determines that it shall be made, it shall stand over until the evening sitting of the same day' be added to the Standing Order."

Question put accordingly, "That those words be there added to the Standing Order."

The House divided:—Ayes, 148; Noes, 86. (Division List No. 160.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F.	Gore, Hn GRC. Ormsby-(Salop)	Morrell, George Herbert
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte	Goschen, Hon. Geo. Joachim	Morrison, James Archibald
Allhusen, Augustus Henry E.	Green, Walford D. (W'dnesbury	Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.)	Murray, Rt. Hn A. Graham (Bute
Archdale, Edward Mervyn	Gretton, John	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Greville, Hon. Ronald	Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.	Groves, James Grimble	Nicholson, Wm. Graham
Arrol, Sir William	Hambro, Charles Eric	Nicol, Donald Ninian
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G. (Mid' x	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bain, Colonel James Robert	Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm.	Peel, Hon. Wm. R. Wellesley
Balcarres, Lord	Hardy, Laur. (Kent, Ashford)	Pretyman, Ernest George
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r	Heath, James (Staffords. N. W.	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Higginbottom, S. W.	Purvis, Robert
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds	Hope, J. F. (Sheffi'd, Brightside	Reid, James (Greenock)
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry	Remnant, James Farquharson
Bignold, Arthur	Johnston, William (Belfast)	Richards, Henry Charles
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh)	Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalyb'dge
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith-	Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop.	Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Brassey, Albert	Keswick, William	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Knowles, Lees	Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.)	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Sadler, Col. Samuel Alex.
Cavendish, V. CW. (Derbyshire	Lawrence, Joseph (M'nmouth)	Seely, Chas. Hilton (Lincoln)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Smith, H. C. (N'th'mb, Tyneside
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Lawson, John Grant	Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)	Spear, John Ward
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r	Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)	Stanley, Hn. Artbur (Ormskirk)
Chapman, Edward	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie	Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse	Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Colomb, Sir John Chas. Ready	Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Bristol, S.)	Stock, James Henry
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow	Lowe, Francis William	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale)	Thornton, Percy M.
Cranborne, Viscount	Loyd, Archie Kirkman	Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Dalkeith, Earl of	Lucas, Col. Eras. (Lowestoft)	Tuffnell, Lt-Colonel Edward
Denny, Colonel	Lucas, Regd. J. (Portsmouth)	Valentia, Viscount
Dickson, Charles Scott	Macartney, Rt Hn W. G. Ellison	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Doughty, George	Macdona, John Cumming	Wason, J. Cathcart (Orkney)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.	Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E. (T'nton
Doxtord, Sir William Theodore	M'Iver, Sir Lewis (E'in burgh, W	Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton	M'Killop, Jas. (Stirlingshire)	Whiteley, H (Asht'n-und.-Lyne
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward	Manners, Lord Cecil	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfries.)	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Finch, George H.	Melville, Beresford Valentine	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Fisher, William Hayes	Milner, Rt. Hon. Sir Fred k. G.	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Fitzroy, Hon. Edw. Algernon	Molesworth, Sir Lewis	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Forster, Henry William	Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Galloway, William Johnson	Moon, Edward Robert pacy
Gardner, Ernest	More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire	TELLERSS FOR THE AYES—
Godson, Sir Augustus Fred k.	Morgan, David J. (Walth'stow)	Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Gordon, Hn J. E (Elgin & Nairn)	Morgan, Hn. Fred (Monm'thsh.
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.)	Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	Ffrench, Peter
Asher, Alexander	Condon, Thomas Joseph	Flavin, Michael Joseph
Atherley-Jones, L.	Crean, Eugene	Flynn, James Christopher
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Delany, Willliam	Fuller, J. M. F.
Blake, Edward	Dillon, John	Gilhooly, James
Boland, John	Donelan, Captain A.	Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Herb. J.
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn)	Doogan, P. C.	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James	Edwards, Frank	Hammond, John
Burke, E. Haviland-	Emmott, Alfred	Hayden, John Patrick
Caldwell, James	Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale-
Channing, Francis Allston	Evans, Smal. T. (Glamorgan)	Helme, Norval Watson
Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary, M	Russell, T. W.
Joyce, Michael	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal W.)	O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)
Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accringt'n)	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Leigh, Sir Joseph	O'Donnell, T. (Kerry W.)	Sinclair John, (Forfarshire)
Levy, Maurice	O'Dowd, John	Soares, Ernest J.
Lundon, W.	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo N.)	Spencer, Rt. Hon. C. R (N'thants
MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A.	O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon N.)	Sullivan, Donal
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	O'Malley, William	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
MacVeagh, Jeremiah	O'Mara, James	Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall)	O'Shaughnessy, P. J.	Thomson, P. W. (York, W. R.)
M'Crae, George	O Shee, James John	Weir, James Galloway
M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Power, Patrick Joseph	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
M'Kean, John	Price, Robert John	Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Priestly, Arthur	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Mansfield, Horace Rendall	Reckitt, Harold James
Murphy, John	Reddy, M.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Nannetti, Joseph P.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford	Mr. Pirie and Mr. Charles Hobhouse.
Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Rigg, Richard

The Standing Order "Adjournment of the House," as finally adopted, is as follows:—

That no Motion for the adjournment of the House shall be made until all the Questions asked at the commencement of business at the afternoon sitting have been disposed of and no such Motion shall be made before the Orders of the Bay or Notices of Motion have been entered upon, except by leave of the House, unless a Member rising in his place at an afternoon sitting shall propose to move the Adjournment for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, and not less than forty Members shall thereupon rise in their places to support the Motion; or unless, if fewer than forty Members and not less than ten shall thereupon rise in their places, the House shall, on a division, upon Question put forthwith, determine whether such Motion shall be made. If the Motion is so supported, or the House so determines that it shall be made, it shall stand over until the evening sitting of the same day.

(5.30.) Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

MR. DILLON

said they were entitled to complain of the treatment the House had received from the First Lord of the Treasury. The course followed by the right hon. Gentleman had resulted in a gross waste of public time. That had been the universal experience of all Ministers who had embarked in enterprises of this character. He felt absolutely confident that the right hon. Gentleman had not increased his chances of getting the Rules through on Thursday night. But for the course which had been taken, he thought it was exceedingly likely that the Rules might have been got through then. He did not think the right hon. Gentleman was well advised when he refused the offer which was made in a friendly and conciliatory spirit about one o'clock. Experience had shown that the vigorous use of the closure did not tend to the making of progress.

MR. BRYCE

said he desired to express the sense which obtained on that side of the House of the very unusual and extremely unfortunate course take by the Government. It was a course which the Opposition endeavoured to dissuade them from, and one which would redound neither to the credit of the proceedings of the House nor to the excellence of the Rules on which they had been at so untimely an hour engaged.

When the Question "That the House do now adjourn" was again put from the Chair, there were loud and repeated cries of "No!" from the Nationalist Benches; but

MR. SPEAKER

said: Hon. Members cry "No," but I shall take no notice of that. This House now stands adjourned.

Adjourned at twenty minutes before Six o'clock.