§ Ordered, That all Members who are returned for two or more places in any part of the United Kingdom do make their election for which of the places they will serve, within one week after it shall appear that there is no question upon the Return for that place; and if any thing shall come in question touching the Return or Election of any Member, he is to withdraw during the time the matter is in debate: and that all Members returned upon double Returns do withdraw till their Returns are determined.
§ Resolved, That no Peer of the Realm, except such Peers of Ireland as shall for the time being be actually elected, and shall not have declined to serve, for any county, city, or borough of Great Britain, hath any light to give his vote in the Election of any Member to serve in Parliament.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That it is a high infringement of the liberties and privileges of the Commons of the United Kingdom for any Lord of Parliament, or other Peer or Prelate, not being a Peer of Ireland at the time elected, and not having declined to serve for any county, city, or borough of Great Britain, to concern himself in the election of Members to serve for the Commons in Parliament, except only any Peer of Ireland, at such Elections in Great Britain respectively where such Peer shall appear as a candidate, or by himself, or any others, be proposed to be elected; or for any Lord Lieutenant or Governor of any county to avail himself of any authority derived from his Commission, to influence the Election of any Member to serve for the Commons in Parliament."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)
§
Amendment proposed—
To leave out from the word 'Kingdom,' in line 2, to the word 'for,' in line 8."—(Mr. James Lowther.)
§ MR. WHARTON (York, W.R., Ripon)formally seconded the Amendment.
§ Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNOR (Scotland, Liverpool)With reference to this Sessional 60 Order as to the interference of Peers in the elections, the Amendment of the right hon. Gentleman does not deal with the main question. In every session the right hon. Gentleman has pressed his objection to this rule, and upon one occasion I found myself—as much to my own astonishment as to that of the right hon. Gentleman—in the same lobby with him. I have arrived at the conclusion to which I came upon grounds entirely different to those which induced him to propose this Amendment. It is quite evident that a rule of this kind, if it is not observed, should not be on the Statute-book of the country and should not remain an Order of this House. If the law is good it should be obeyed, and if it is bad it should be repealed. I think it was General Grant who laid down the wise dictum that the very best way to get rid of a bad law is that it should be put into operation. This rule has been proved to be inoperative, and I think the breach of the high privileges of this House is in voting that Peers should not be allowed to take part in elections and then allowing the law to be disobeyed. I know that some hon. Gentlemen on this side of the House will not approve of the support I give to the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman. I know that some gentlemen on the opposite side are of opinion that if this rule were abrogated it would be in the interest of the party they represent. I have heard it said that if this rule were repealed, and if Peers were allowed to offer themselves for election to the House of Commons, fifty or sixty constituencies in the country would be certain to be represented by Peers. I am prepared to face a contingency of that kind I cannot understand how anyone who approves of equal political rights can be in favour of a policy of exclusion and disability by which you prevent any citizen of the country from seeking to represent his fellow-citizens. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely impartial in this matter, and I accept his assurance that he does not look for any party advantage. I will be perfectly candid with the right hon. Gentleman and tell him that I regard his motion as anticipatory of more serious and more important movements. It is perfectly impossible that we could have Peers taking part in the election of Mem- 61 bers to this House and at the same time deprive the people of the right to share in the choice of the Members of another Chamber. It is an anomaly and an anachronism that one man simply by right of birth should have the same rights of legislation and administration as the representative of 100,000citizens of the country. That anomaly would, I think, be made very much more flagrant by the resolution of the right hon. Gentleman. I
§ think it would pave the way for the disappearance of that anomaly. I am in favour of the right hon. Gentleman's Motion, and I will vote for it because I think the best way of getting rid of the privilege is by getting rid of the rule.
§ Question put.
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 326; Noes, 123. (Division List No. 1.)
65| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. | Crombie, John William | Hambro, Charles Eric |
| Allen, Chas. P. (Glouc, Stroud | Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G. (Mid'x |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Hamilton, Marq. of (L'nd'derry |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan | Hardy, Laurance (K'nt, Ashford |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Harmsworth, R. Leicester |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Dickson, Charles Scott | Harris, F. Leverton (Tynemth.) |
| Arrol, Sir William | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Harwood, George |
| Asher, Alexander | Digby, John K. D. Wingfield- | Haslem, Sir Alfred S. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Dimsdale, Sir Joseph Cockfield | Haslett, Sir James Horner |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Dixon- Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- |
| Balcarres, Lord | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A Akers- | Hayter, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur D. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r) | Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) | Healy, Timothy Michael |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G.W. (Leeds) | Doxford, Sir William T. | Helder, Augustus |
| Balfour, Maj. K. R. (Christch. | Duke, Edward Henry | Helme, Norval Watson |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Duncan, James H. | Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H. |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Dunn, Sir William | Hermon-Hodge, Robt. Trotter |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M.H.(Bristol | Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin | Higginbottom, S. W. |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Elibank, Master of | Hoare, E. Brodie (Hampstead) |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Elliot, Hon. A. R. Douglas | Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich) |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Emmott, Alfred | Hobhouse, C.E.H. (Bristol, E.) |
| Black, Alexander William | Evans, Samuel T. | Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset, E. |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Fiber, George Denison | Holland, William Henry |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Fardell, Sir T. George | Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) |
| Bowles,Capt. H. F.(Middlesex) | Farquharson, Dr. Robert | Horner, Frederick William |
| Brassey, Albert | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Horniman, Frederick John |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Ferguson, R. C. Munro(Leith) | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Fergusson, Rt. Hn Sir J. (Manc'r | Hoult, Joseph |
| Brookfield, Colonel Montagu | Ffrench, Peter | Howard, Capt J. (Kent, Faversh |
| Brown, George M. (Edinburgh | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Howard, J. (Midx., Tottenham) |
| Bryce, Rt. Hon. James | Fisher, William Hayes | Hozier, Hon. James H. Cecil |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Hudson, George Bickersteth |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Fitzroy. Hon. Edward Algernon | Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. |
| Burt, Thomas | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Johnston, William (Belfast) |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea) |
| Caldwell, James | Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) | Jones, William (Carnarvons.) |
| Cameron, Robert | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Kennedy, Patrick James |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Fuller, J. M. F. | Kenyon, James (Lancs., Bury) |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Furness, Sir Christopher | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W.(Salop) |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Garfit, William | Kimber, Henry |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lanes.) | Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin&Nairn | King, Sir Henry Seymour |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. | Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) | Kinloch, Sir John Geo. Smyth |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Gordon,Maj Evans-(T'rHmlets | Knowles, Lees |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon J.(Birm. | Gore, Hon. F. S. Ormsby- | Lambton, Hon. Frederick W. |
| Chamberlain, J Austen(Worc'r | Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon | Langley, Batty |
| Chamberlayne, T.(S'thampton | Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Law, Andrew Bonar |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Graham, Henry Robert | Lawrence, William F. |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Grant, Corrie | Lawson, John Grant |
| Chapman, Edward | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
| Charrington, Spencer | Greene, Sir E.W. (Bury St. Ed. | Leamy, Edmund |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H.A.E. | Grenfell, William Henry | Lecky, Rt Hon William Edw. H. |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Gretton, John | Lee, Capt A. H. (Hants, Fareh'm |
| Colville, John | Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) | Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow | Griffith, Ellis J. | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Grores, James Grimble | Leigh, Sir Joseph (Stockport). |
| Craig, Robert Hunter | Gurdon, Sir William Brampton | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie |
| Cranborne, Viscount | Hain, Edward | Leng, Sir John |
| Cremer, William Randal | Halsey, Thomas Frederick | Leveson-Gower,. Fredk. N. S. |
| Levy, Maurice | Philipps, John Wynford | Talbot.Rt.Hn. J.G.(Ox. Univ.) |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Pierpoint, Robert | Taylor, Theodore Cooke |
| Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Pilkington, Richard | Tennant, Harold John |
| Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Thomas, David A. (Merthyr) |
| Long, Rt Hn. Walter (Bristol, S) | Plummer, Walter R. | Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings |
| Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Thomas, J A (Glamorgan,Gow'r |
| Lowe, Francis William | Pretyman, Ernest George | Thomson, Frederick W. |
| Lowther, Rt. Hn. J. W. (Penrith | Price, Robert John | Thorburn, Sir Walter |
| Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Purvis, Robert | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) | Quilter, Sir Cuthbert | Tomkinson, James |
| Lucas,ReginaldJ(Portsmouth) | Radcliffe, R. F. | Tomlinson, W. Edw. Murray |
| Macdona, John Gumming | Randles, John S. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Maconochie, A. W. | Rankin, Sir James | Tufnell, Col. Edward |
| M'Crae, George | Redmond, John E.(Waterford) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Majendie, James A. H. | Reid, James (Greenock) | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Malcolm, Ian | Remnant, Jame Farquharson | Wallace, Robert |
| Manners, Lord Cecil | Renshaw, Charles Bine | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Mansfield, Horace Kendall | Renwick, George | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Martin, Richard Biddulph | Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge | Warner,Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Maxwell, W.J (Dumfriesshire) | Ridley, Samuel F. (BethnalGr'n | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Melville, Beresford Valentine | Rigg, Richard | Wason, Eugene(Clackmannan) |
| Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson | Wason, Jn. Cathcart (Orkney |
| Middlemore, John Throgmor't'n | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | Webb, Col. William George |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Roberts, John H. Denbighs.) | White, George (Norfolk) |
| Mitchell, William | Robson, William Snowden | White, Luke (York, E.K.) |
| Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. | White, Patrick (Meath, North |
| Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Whiteley, Geo. (York, W.R.) |
| Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Ropner, Colonel Robert | Whiteley, H.(Ashton-u.-Lyne) |
| More, Robert J. (Shropshire) | Rothschild, Hn. Lionel Walter | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) | Round, James | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Morris, Hon. Martin Henry F. | Rutherford, John | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth |
| Moulton, John Fletcher | Schwann, Charles E. | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Murphy, J. | Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R. |
| Newnes, Sir George | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) | Wilson, Chas. Hy. (Hull, W.) |
| Nicol, Donald Ninian | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) | Wilson, John (Falkirk) |
| Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, N. | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Norman, Henry | Skewes-Cox, Thomas | Wilson, J. W.(Worcestersh. N.) |
| Nussey, Thomas Willans | Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East) | Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.) |
| O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | Smith, H. C. (NorthumbTynesd | Wodehouse, Rt Hon E. R.(Bath) |
| O'Kelly, J. (Roscommon, N.) | Smith, J. Parker (Lanarks.) | Woodhouse, SirJ T. (Hudd'rsf'd |
| O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens | Smith, Samuel (Flint) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Spear, John Ward | Wrightson, Sir Thomas |
| Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | Spencer, Rt Hn C.R. (Northants | Wylie, Alexander |
| Palmer, Grorge W. (Reading) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | Stevenson, Francis S. | Wyndham-Quin, Major W.H |
| Parkes, Ebenezer | Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart | Young, Commander (Berks, E. |
| Partington, Oswald | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Pease, Sir Joseph W. (Durham) | Stone, Sir Benjamin | |
| Peel, Hon. Wm. Robert W. | Strachey, Edward | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Pemberton, John S. G. | Stroyan, John | Sir William Walrond and |
| Percy, Earl | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) | Mr. Anstruther. |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Carew, James Laurence | Dyke, Rt. Hon Sir William Hart |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Cawley, Frederick | Ellis, John Edward |
| Ambrose, Robert | Churchill, Winston Spencer | Farrell, James Patrick |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Clancy, John Joseph | Fenwick, Charles |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready | Fison, Frederick William |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Flynn, James Christopher |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Crean, Eugene | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Cullinan, J. | Goulding, Edward Alfred |
| Bartley, George C. T. | Dalkeith, Earl of | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) |
| Bell, Richard | Dalziel, James Henry | Guthrie, Walter Murray |
| Bignold, A. | Delany, William | Haldane, Richard Burdon |
| Blake, Edward | Dewar, T. R. (Tower Hamlets) | Hardie, J. K. (Merthyr Tydvil), |
| Boland, John | Dickinson, Robert Edmond | Harrington, Timothy |
| Bond, Edward | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Hay, Hon. Claude George |
| Bowles, T. G. (King's Lynn) | Dillon, John | Hayden, John Patrick |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Donelan, Captain A. | Heath, Arthur H. (Hanley) |
| Caine, William Sproston | Doogan, P. C. | Hope, J. F. (Sheffi'd, Brightside) |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Dully, William J. | Jacoby, James Alfred |
| Joicey, Sir James | Morley, Rt. Hon. J. (Montrose | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Jordan, Jeremiah | Muntz, Philip A. | Reid, Sir Robert T. (Dumfries |
| Joyce, Michael | Murnaghan, George | Roche, John |
| Kearley, Hudson E. | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Kitson, Sir James | O'Brien, James F. N. (Cork) | Russell, T. W. |
| Labouchere, Henry | O'Brien, Kendal(Tipper'y, Mid | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- |
| Lambert, George | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander |
| Laurie, Lieut.-General | O'Brien, William (Cork) | Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh) |
| Lundon, W. | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | Seton-Karr, Henry |
| MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford) |
| Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | O'Doherty, William | Shipman, Dr. John |
| M'Calmont, Col. J.(Antrim, E.) | O'Dowd, John | Soares, Ernest J. |
| M'Dermott, Patrick | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) | Sullivan, Donal |
| M'Fadden, Edward | O'Malley, William | Tanner, Charles Kearns |
| M'Govern, T. | O'Mara, James | Thomas, J. A. (Glam., Gower) |
| M'Hugh, Patrick A. | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Tully, Jasper |
| M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) | Pease, Herbert P. (Darlington | Vincent, Col. Sir C.E.H.(Shef'd |
| Maple, Sir John Blundell | Penn, John | Welby, Lt.-Col. A.C.E. (Tauntn |
| Marshall Hall, Edward | Pickard, Benjamin | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid) |
| Mellor, Rt. Hon. John William | Pirie, Duncan V. | Young, Samuel (Cavan, East) |
| Milward, Colonel Victor | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | |
| Montagu, Won. J Scott(Hants.) | Pym, C. Guy | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Mooney, John J. | Reckitt, Harold James | Mr. James Lowther and Mr. Wharton. |
| Morgan, Hn. Fred (Monm'thsh. | Reddy, M. |
Main Question put, and agreed to.
§ Resolved, That it is a high infringement of the liberties and privileges of the Commons of the United Kingdom for any Lord of Parliament, or other Peer or Prelate, not being a Peer of Ireland at the time elected, and not having declined to serve for any county, city, or borough of Great Britain, to concern himself in the election of Members to serve for the Commons in Parliament, except only any Peer of Ireland, at such elections in Great Britain respectively where such Peer shall appear as a candidate, or by himself, or any others, be proposed to be elected; or for any Lord Lieutenant or Governor of any county to avail himself of any authority derived from his Commission, to influence the election of any Member to serve for the Commons in Parliament.
§ Resolved, That if it shall appear that any person hath been elected or returned a Member of this House, or endeavoured so to be, by Bribery, or any other corrupt practices, this House will proceed with the utmost severity against all such persons as shall have been wilfully concerned in such Bribery or other corrupt practices.