HC Deb 21 May 1900 vol 83 cc750-7

Mr. Vanghan - Davies, Mr. George Doughty, and Mr. Harry Foster nominated Members of the Committee.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That General Goldsworthy be another Member of the Committee. " — (Sir William Walrond.)

MR. GIBSON BOWLES (Lynn Regis)

I hope it will not be thought it is from any want of respect for the hon. and gallant Member that I propose to vote against this resolution. But I wish to make a short explanatory statement of the reasons why I think he should not be a member of the Committee. The House is aware that this Committee is to sit upon a Bill which proposes to regulate the number of inches a sole shall measure before it is capable of being sold. It must be, I believe, eight inches. The House is also aware. I presume, that there is no provision enabling the Committee to send for persons, Papers, etc., and I believe it is intended that the Committee shall take no evidence whatever, but shall simply have the Bill before it as it is. That being the case, it becomes extremely important that the Committee should be a fair one, and that it should be composed of persons who have some knowledge of sea fisheries. It is proposed that it should consist of thirteen members, and only three of these are known to be against the Bill. The Government will therefore have a majority of ten. As regards the hon. and gallant General, he is, we know, a gallant soldier, and he is also Member for Hammersmith; but as I am credibly informed that there are no sea fish to be found at Hammersmith I cannot understand how he can be expected to have any local knowledge of sea fisheries. He occupies a useful position as Chairman of the Kitchen Committee, and I am bound to say that under his auspices there has been some amelioration of the complaints as to the supply of food to Members of this House. But even that would not render him competent to deal with sea fish, until at any rate they arrive at the boiling stage. Consequently, Sir, I do think the hon. and gallant Gentleman is not the sort of Member to be placed upon this Committee. He would necessarily be favourable to the Government. I will not say that he would vote pre- cisely as they wish, but I do think it highly probable that he would do so. There are other Members of this House who have a certain knowledge of sea fisheries who have not been invited to join the Committee. I shall mention no names, but I have observed that almost all those who have taken a prominent part against this Bill, and who have some knowledge of sea fisheries, have been eminently distinguished by the Government by being left outside the Committee. I end my remarks by repeating the hope that it will not be supposed for one moment that I am taking this action because of any want of belief in either

the military or Parliamentary capacity of my hon. and gallant friend, who I am sorry to see is not in his place. I do it solely because I think there are too many Government Members in favour of the Bill on the Committee, and because I hold that there ought to be more Members who have a knowledge of sea fisheries. The hon. and gallant Member possesses no such knowledge, and I shall therefore be obliged to take a division against him.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 212;Noes, 77. (Division List No. 130.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. Courtney, Rt. Hon Leonard H. Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs.)
Aird, John Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) Hoare, E. Brodie (Hampstead)
Anson, Sir William Reynell Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Curzon, Viscount Hobhouse, Henry
Arnold, Alfred Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) Hornby, Sir William Henry
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Houston, R. P.
Ashton, Thomas Gair Donelan, Captain A. Howell, William Tudor
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H. Doogan, P. C. Hudson, George Bickersteth
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Hutton, John (Yorks. N. R.)
Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire) Doxford, Sir William Theodore Jacoby, James Alfred
Baillie, James E. B. (Inverness) Drage, Geoffrey Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick
Baird, John George Alexander Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas Jenkins, Sir John Jones
Baldwin, Alfred Evans, Sir F. H. (Southampton) Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez E.
Balfour, Rt Hon A. J. (Manch'r) Faber, George Denison Johnston, William (Belfast)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) Fardell, Sir T. George Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex)
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn E. Kay-Shuttle worth, Rt. Hn Sir U
Barry, Rt Hn A H Smith- (Hunts) Ferguson, R. C. M. (Leith) Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H.
Barry, Sir Francis T. (Windsor) Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J (Manc'r) Kimber, Henry
Beach, Rt Hon Sir M. H. (Bristol) Finch, George H. Lafone, Alfred
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Bethell, Commander Fisher, William Hayes Lawson, John Grant (Yorks)
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmund Lecky, Rt Hon William Edw. H.
Biddulph, Michael Flannery, Sir Fortescue Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn- (Swan.)
Bill, Charles Flower, Ernest Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Liverpool)
Blundell, Colonel Henry Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Lowe, Francis William
Bolitho, Thomas Bedford Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Brassey, Albert Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis Lucas-Shadwell, William
Broadhurst, Henry Fry, Lewis Lyell, Sir Leonard
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Galloway, William Johnson Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Gibbs, Hon. V. (St. Albans) Macaleese, Daniel
Burt, Thomas Gilliat, John Saunders Macartney, W. G. Ellison
Butcher, John George Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. Macdona, John Cumming
Buxton, Sydney Charles Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St Geo.) M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.)
Campbell, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Glas.) Goulding, Edward Alfred M'Ewan, William
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley M'Iver, Sir L. (Edinburgh, W.)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Graham, Henry Robert Malcolm, Ian
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Maple, Sir John Blundell
Causton, Richard Knight Gunter, Colonel Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F.
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Gurdon, Sir William Brampton Mellor, Rt. Hn. J. W. (Yorks)
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) Haldane, Richard Burdon Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M.
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Halsey, Thomas Frederick Milbank, Sir P. Chas. John
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord Geo. Milward, Colonel Victor
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm) Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Charrington, Spencer Hardy, Laurence Moore, William (Antrim, N.)
Chelsea, Viscount Haslett, Sir James Horner More, Robert J. (Shropshire)
Coghill, Douglas Harry Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Hazell, Walter Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Commins, Andrew Helder, Augustus Murray, Rt Hn A Graham (Bute)
Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Hickman, Sir Alfred Myers, William Henry
Newdigate, Francis Alexander Rutherford, John Wanklyn, James Leslie
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Sandon, Viscount Warr, Augustus Frederick
Pease, Joseph A. (Northmb.) Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.)
Pease, Sir Joseph W.(Durham) Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd
Percy, Earl Sharpe, William Edward T. Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Pierpoint, Robert Sinclair, Louis (Romford) Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Platt-Higgins, Frederick Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch) Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.)
Plunkett, Rt. Hon. H. Curzon Smith, James Parker (Lanark.) Wilson, J. W.(Worcestersh, N.)
Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Smith, Samuel (Flint) Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)
Purvis, Robert Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)
Rankin, Sir James Spencer, Ernest Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Rasch, Major Frederic Carne Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset) Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Redmond, William (Clare) Sturt, Hon. Humphrey Napier Wrightson, Thomas
Renshaw, Charles Bine Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) Wylie, Alexander
Rickett, J. Compton Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ.) Wyndham, George
Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. Thorburn, Sir Walter Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Charles T. Thornton, Percy M. Young, Commander (Berks, E.)
Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Round, James Tritton, Charles Ernest TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Royds, Clement Molyneux Tuke, Sir John Batty Sir William Walrond and
Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) Ure, Alexander Mr. Anstruther.
NOES
Allan, William (Gateshead) Hogan, James Francis Phillpotts, Captain Arthur
Allison, Robert Andrew Horniman, Frederick John Pickard, Benjamin
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Baker, Sir John Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Reckitt, Harold James
Barlow, John Emmott Jones, David B. (Swansea) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Billson, Alfred Kilbride, Denis Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Blake, Edward Kinloch, Sir John Geo. Smyth Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur Labouchere, Henry Souttar, Robinson
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Leng, Sir John Spicer, Albert
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Lloyd-George, David Stanhope, Hon. Philip J.
Caldwell, James Lough, Thomas Stevenson, Francis S.
Cameron, Robert (Durham) Maclean, James Mackenzie Strachey, Edward
Carmichael, Sir T. D. Gibson- MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Tanner, Charles Kearns
Cawley, Frederick M'Cartan, Michael Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Charming, Francis Allston M'Crae, George Weir, James Galloway
Clark, Dr. G. B. M'Ghee, Richard Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Colomb, Sir John Chs. Ready M'Kenna, Reginald Williams, John Carvell (Notts.)
Crombie, John William Mappin, Sir Frederick Thorpe Wills, Sir William Henry
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Wilson, Fredk. W. (Norfolk)
Evans, Sam. T. (Glamorgan) Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel) Wilson, J. (Durham, Mid.)
Fenwick, Charles Moss, Samuel Wilson, John (Govan)
Garfit, William Norton, Captain Cecil Wm. Woods, Samuel
Gold, Charles Nussey, Thomas Willans Young, Samuel (Cavan, East)
Gull, Sir Cameron O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.)
Harwood, George O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) TELLERS FOR THE NOSE—
Hayden, John Patrick Oldroyd, Mark Mr. Gibson Bowles and Mr.
Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. Perks, Robert William Price.

Sir Cameron Gull, Sir Brampton Gurdon, Mr. Seale-Hayne, Mr. Graham Murray, Mr. Pretyman, Mr. William Redmond, Mr. Ritchie, Mr. Rothschild, and Captain Sinclair nominated other Members of the Committee.—(Sir William Walrond.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That five be the quorum of the Committee."—(Sir William, Walrond.)

* SIR J. COLOMB (Great Yarmouth)

had the following notice on the Paper— That the Committee have power to send for persons, Papers, and records. That seven be the quorum. He said: I understand that I am unable to move that the Committee "have power to send for persons, Papers, and records," and my hon. and gallant friend is not permitted to move that the evidence of the Royal Commission and Select Committee be referred to this Committee. In fact, there is no provision for the Committee taking any evidence at all, and under these circumstances I think the quorum should be raised. I propose to take out the word "five" and put in "seven."

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member cannot move that Amendment to a Motion under Standing Order XVI. He can only vote against the proposal that five be the quorum.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 184; Noes, 116. (Division List No. 131.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F Flannery, Sir Fortescue Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford)
Aird, John Flower, Ernest Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Anson, Sir William Reynell Fry, Lewis Murray, Ht. Hn. A. G. (Bute)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Galloway, William Johnson Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Arnold, Alfred Garfit, William Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Gilliat, John Saunders Myers, William Henry
Ashton, Thomas Gair Goldsworthy, Major-General Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. Pease, Herbert P. (Darlington)
Baillie, James E. B. (Inverness) Goschen, Rt. Hn G J (St George's) Percy, Earl
Balcarres, Lord Goulding, Edward Alfred Pierpoint, Robert
Baldwin, Alfred Graham, Henry Robert Plunkett, Rt. Hon. H. Curzon
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r.) Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds) Gunter, Colonel Purvis, Robert
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Halsey, Thomas Frederick Rankin, Sir James
Barry, Rt. Hn A H Smith-(Hunts) Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord George Rasch, Major Frederic Carne
Barry, Sir Francis T.(Windsor) Hanbury, Rt. Hon Robert Wm. Renshaw, Charles Bine
Beach, Rt. Hon Sir M. H. (Bristol) Hardy, Laurence Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir Matthew W
Bemrose, Sir Henry Howe Haslett, Sir James Horner Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Bethell, Commander Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Round, James
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) Royds, Clement Molyneux
Biddulph, Michael Helder, Augustus Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Bolitho, Thomas Bedford Hickman, Sir Alfred Rutherford, John
Brassey, Albert Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs.) Sandon, Viscount
Broadhurst, Henry Hoare, Edw Brodie(Hampstead) Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich) Savory, Sir Joseph
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Hobhouse, Henry Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard
Butcher, John George Hornby, Sir William Henry Sharpe, Wm. Edward T.
Campbell, Rt. Hn. J A (Glasgow) Houston, R. P. Sinclair, Louis (Romford)
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) Howell, William Tudor Smith, A. H. (Christchurch)
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Smith, J. Parker (Lanarks.)
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Hudson, George Bickersteth Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Cavendish, V. C. W (Derbyshire) Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.) Spencer, Ernest
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick Stanley, E. J. (Somerset)
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) Jenkins, Sir John Jones Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Johnston, William (Belfast) Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Charrington, Spencer Kimber, Henry Talbot, Rt. Hon. J. G. (Ox, Unv.)
Chelsea, Viscount Lafone, Alfred Thorburn, Sir Walter
Coghill, Douglas Harry Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) Thornton, Percy M.
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Lecky, Rt. Hon. Wm. E. H. Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. M.
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a) Tritton, Charles Ernest
Commins, Andrew Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverp'l) Tuke, Sir John Batty
Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) Lowe Francis William Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Loyd, Archie Kirkman Wanklyn, James Leslie
Courtney, Rt. Hon. L. H. Lucas-Shadwell, William Warr, Augustus Frederick
Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred Welby, Sir C. G. E. (Notts.)
Curzon, Viscount Macaleese, Daniel Wharton, Rt. Hon. John L.
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) Macartney, W. G. Ellison Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon Macdona, John Cumming Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) Williams, Joseph Powell- (Birm)
Doxford, Sir Wm. Theodore M'Ewan, William Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)
Drage, Geoffrey M'Iver, Sir L. (Edinburgh, W.) Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)
Elliot, Hon. A. R. Douglas Malcolm, Ian Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)
Faber, George Denison Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Fardell, Sir T. George Mellor, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Yorks.) Wrightson, Thomas
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Wylie, Alexander
Fergusson, Rt. Hn Sir J. (Manc'r) Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Wyndham, George
Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) Milbank, Sir Powlett C. J. Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Finch, George H. Milward, Colonel Victor Young, Commander (Berks, E.)
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Monckton, Edward Philip TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Fisher, William Hayes Moore, William (Antrim, N.) Sir William Walrond and
Fitz Wygram, General Sir F. More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) Mr. Anstruther.
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) Asquith, Rt. Hon. H. Henry Baker, Sir John
Allan, William (Gateshead) Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire) Barlow, John Emmott
Allison, Robert Andrew Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Bartley, George C. T.
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Hedderwick, Thomas Chas. H. Pease, Joseph A. (Northumb.)
Billson, Alfred Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. Perks, Robert William
Blake, Edward Hogan, James Francis Phillpotts, Captain Arthur
Bowles, T. G. (King's Lynn) Horniman, Frederick John Pickard, Benjamin
Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Reckitt, Harold James
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Jacoby, James Alfred Redmond, William (Clare)
Burt, Thomas Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez Edw. Reid, Sir Robert Threshie
Buxton, Sydney Charles Jones, David Brynmor (Swan.) Rickett, J. Compton
Caldwell, James Kay-Shuttleworth, Rt. Hn Sir U Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Cameron, Robert (Durham) Kearley, Hudson E. Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Kilbride, Denis Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Carmichael, Sir T. D. Gibson- Kinloch, Sir John Geo. Smyth Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)
Cawley, Frederick Labouchere, Henry Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Channing, Francis Allston Leng, Sir John Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Clark, Dr. G. B. Lloyd-George, David Souttar, Robinson
Crombie, John William Lough, Thomas Spencer, Ernest
Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) Lyell, Sir Leonard Spicer, Albert
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Maclean, James Mackenzie Stevenson, Francis S.
Doogan, P. C. MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Strachey, Edward
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) M'Cartan, Michael Ure, Alexander
Evans, Sir Francis H (South'ton) M'Crae, George Weir, James Galloway
Fenwick, Charles M'Ghee, Richard Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) M'Kenna, Reginald Williams, John Carvell (Notts.)
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Maddison, Fred. Wills, Sir William Henry
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Maple, Sir John Blundell Wilson, Fred. W. (Norfolk)
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Mappin, Sir Frederick Thorpe Wilson, Hy. J. (York, W. R.)
Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel) Wilson, John (Durham, Mid)
Gold, Charles Moon, Edw. Robert Pacy Wilson, John (Govan)
Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Gull, Sir Cameron Moss, Samuel Woods, Samuel
Gurdon, Sir William Brampton Norton, Capt. Cecil William Young, Samuel (Cavan, East)
Haldane, Richard Burdon Nussey, Thomas Willans
Harwood, George O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) TELLERS FOR THE NOES —
Hayden, John Patrick O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) Sir John Colomb and Mr.
Heaton, John Henniker Oldroyd, Mark Price.

Bill read a second time, and committed for Monday, 18th June.