§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI do not think the House will, under the somewhat exceptional conditions of the session, object to the motion which I now have the honour to move, as this session is differentiated from previous sessions in one or two very important factors which I will briefly recall to the House. It is absolutely necessary that without delay the War Office should obtain further powers to spend money, and that will be done under the Estimate which will be proposed by the Under Secretary for War. It is further necessary that the Exchequer shall have power to make payments, and that will be done under the Appropriation Bill which will immediately follow my hon. friend's statement. It will also be necessary before the 31st March that the Treasury should have further powers to obtain money by borrowing or otherwise. The power to take Tuesday for the discussion of financial business, the House will see, is, therefore, proposed in the interest rather of the House than of the Government. The financial business, which will enable us to carry on the necessary operations in South Africa and comply with the law, must be got through by a certain definite date, and if the discussion is to be as complete and adequate as the 1249 House would probably desire, it is necessary the Government should obtain such an amount of time as will give that latitude to discussion which they would wish to possess. We take no power, it will be seen, to deal with any legislative proposal, and there will consequently be no temptation to abuse the powers for which we are now asking. I need not reiterate that we are prepared to make an exception to the motion in the case of Tuesday, the 20th instant, which we trust will be entirely allocated to the discussion of the question of the inquiry respecting the Jameson raid. May I, in conclusion, express a hope that the House will grant us these powers and privileges without lengthened debate, so that, with the shortest possible delay, my hon. friend may be able to lay his statement before the House.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That, until the end of the financial year, Financial Business do have precedence on Tuesday whenever set down by the Government, and that the provisions of Standing Order 56 be extended to that day."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs)I am of opinion that the House is hardly in a humour at present to offer much impediment to Government business, especially of the important kind to which the right hon. Gentleman has referred. At the same time I must say I look in vain for a precedent such as we might have expected the right hon. Gentleman to lay down for the proposals he now makes. There are seven weeks between the present time and the end of March. There are seven of these Tuesdays over which he hangs this sword, and I may further point out that this year is particularly favourable to the Government in this respect, that Easter comes in April, so that there is no deduction to be made from the time on account of holidays. On that ground I should have thought it was quite superfluous to make a motion of this sort which threatens, in an unpleasant way, the rights and privileges of private Members.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURIt is in their own interest.
§ SIR. H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANEach Member does not think that it is in his own interest to have his privileges 1250 curtailed. As to what the right hon. Gentleman has said of the necessity or probability of extensive discussion of the Army and other Estimates, I have no doubt there may be a desire fully to discuss them, but, so far as the great schemes of Army extension and organisation go, I should imagine it would be much more suitable that they should be postponed for further consideration at a time when the atmosphere—I mean the moral atmosphere—is somewhat cooler, and when we are away from the influence of existing circumstances. However, as I said when I first rose, I do not think there is any disposition to put any obstacle in the way of the Government managing their business as they choose in this respect, and, therefore, I make no demur to the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman.
§ MR. D. A. THOMAS (Merthyr Tydvil)I had intended to move, before I received the assurance of the right hon. Gentleman, an Amendment to except Tuesday, the 20th inst., from the operation of this resolution. I think even now it would be more in accordance with precedent if an Amendment of that kind were embodied. [An HON. MEMBER: No, no!] Well, I say "Yes," and I know what I am talking about. I may remind the House that when the right hon. Gentleman's Government took the time of private Members in 1898, he specially excepted two Wednesdays. Still, after the assurance of the right hon. Gentleman that he is not only going to except Tuesday, the 20 thinst., but also to allocate the entire day to the discussion set down for that occasion, I do not propose to move any Amendment.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.)I can well understand my right hon. friend the Leader of the Opposition getting up in a spirit of enormous generosity and acceding practically to the Government proposal. But we on these benches are private Members. This is a private Members' affair, and should not be a matter of arrangement between the two front benches. When the First Lord of the Treasury comes down with motions of this kind, he usually produces a half-sheet of paper, on which are set forth precedents by which he wishes to justify his proposal. We are told that such and 1251 such a thing occurred in such and such a year. Now, I have had an extended Parliamentary experience, and I never recollect a motion of this kind having been made so early in the session. It is a systematic attack on the rights of private Members. We on these benches may claim to be unselfish in our opposition to this proposal, for we have no motions down for the Tuesdays which are affected by it. I do ask the right hon. Gentleman or one of his colleagues to give us a precedent for a motion of this kind. It is a shameless raid on the rights and interests of private Members, and if such things are to be allowed, we shall soon have left to us no rights and no interests.
MR. JAMES LOWTHER (Kent, Thanet)said that whilst under the special circumstances he did not desire to throw any difficulties in the way of the Government, it was only right that he should explain that the suggestion he made a few days previously to the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury had been misunderstood. He had made the suggestion that when the Government found it necessary to take time which otherwise would be at the disposal of private Members of the House, the Government should accede an equivalent to the private Members at some later period in the session, when the exigencies of public business permitted it. It was a precedent which had been followed by Mr. Gladstone, who, when he asked private Members to give him one night, undertook to place private Members' business on the Paper on a Government night in the order in which it came. That was the suggestion which he made.
§ MR. FLYNN (Cork, N.)opposed the motion that financial business should have precedence on Tuesdays. The motion, in his opinion, simply meant that seven Tuesdays would be taken away from private Members. The tendency of Parliamentary procedure of this kind was to render the private Members more and more a negligible quantity. The danger he foresaw was that under the pressure of urgency the House would be asked to pledge itself not only to the amount of money and men required by the Government to prosecute the war, but to additions to the Navy and war material also. It appeared to him that private Members 1252 of the House had no business in the House but to be whipped up to go into one lobby or another and vote aye or no as the case might be. As for any legislation of a social character, they appeared to have no place whatever, yet it was well known the most useful legislation of that character had been initiated by private Members in the past. So far as he was concerned, so long as he had had a seat in the House he always had protested, and always should protest, against the giving of private Members' time to the Government of the day.
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND (Waterford)disclaimed being one of those who took an exalted view of the question of private Members' time. He had repeatedly in the past voted in favour of the Government absorbing the time of private Members, because, in his opinion, the only chance of any practical legislation was through the Government. If the programme was generally approved the House ought to give its time to carrying it out. When he had voted for the Government on similar occasions in the past, it had always been when there was legislation proposed of which he approved. The official Leader of the Opposition had said that he did not oppose the present motion, and in saying that he had spoken for the chief portion, no doubt, of the Opposition. The right hon. Gentleman had said that no one was in the humour to put difficulties in the way of the Government; but speaking for a considerable number of the hon. Gentlemen who sat and thought with him, he (Mr. Redmond) might say they were in no humour to give any facilities to the Government to obtain a further fifteen millions of money, to bring to a successful conclusion a war which they regarded as an unjust and an abominable war.
MR. BRYN ROBERTS (Carnarvonshire, Eifion)I think there ought to be an assurance such as has been asked for by the hon. Member for Thanet, and also the assurance that the right hon. Gentleman will apply all the Government time to Government business as well; otherwise it will be open to the Government to apply the whole of their own time to other purposes, while the time of private Members is used for the financial business of the Government. This motion is not reasonable in my opinion, because it will 1253 enable the Government, if they choose, to seize certain nights when matters which they do not like to be discussed are going to be debated, and having regard to the way in which the Government has studiously avoided all questions as to whether General Buller warned them—a question which will be very
§ much pressed—I think we ought to receive some assurance that if this House grants this facility it will be used for the purpose of carrying on financial business which could not otherwise be carried on in time.
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 294; Noes, 40. (Division List No. 11.)
1255| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. | Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord George |
| Aird, John | Cripps, Charles Alfred | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. |
| Allan, William (Gateshead) | Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Hanson, Sir Reginald |
| Allhusen, Augustus Henry E. | Cross, H. Shepherd (Bolton) | Hardy, Laurence |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Hare, Thomas Leigh |
| Arnold, Alfred | Currie, Sir Donald | Haslett, Sir James Horner |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Curzon, Viscount | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H. | Dalkeith, Earl of | Hazel, Walter |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Helder, Augustus |
| Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire) | Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Chas. H. |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan | Hermon-Hodge, R. Trotter |
| Baillie, J. E. B. (Inverness) | Dewar, Arthur | Hickman, Sir Alfred |
| Bainbridge, Emerson | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. S. (Staffs.) |
| Baird, John George Alexander | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Hill, Sir Edw. Stock (Bristol) |
| Baker, Sir John | Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Dorington, Sir John Edward | Hobhouse, Henry |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Doughty, George | Horniman, Frederick John |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Houston, R. P. |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Douglas-Pennant, Hon. E. S. | Howard, Joseph |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Drage, Geoffrey | Howell, William Tudor |
| Barry, Rt. Hn. A.H. Smith- (Hunts | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.) |
| Bartley, George C. T. | Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M.H. (Bristol | Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Jessel, Captain Herbert M. |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. W.W.B. (Hants.) | Elliot, Hn. A. Ralph Douglas | Johnston, William (Belfast) |
| Beckett, Ernest William | Evans, Sir F. H. (South'ton) | Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea) |
| Bethell, Commander | Faber, George Denison | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Farquharson, Dr. Robert | Kay-Shuttleworth, Rt. Hn. Sir U. |
| Biddulph, Michael | Fenwick, Charles | Kearley, Hudson E. |
| Blakiston-Houston, John | Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Kimber, Henry |
| Bond, Edward | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Kinloch, Sir John Geo. Smyth |
| Bonsor, Henry Cosmo Orme | Fisher, William Haves | Knowles, Lees |
| Bowles, Capt. H.F. (Middlesex) | Fison, Frederick William | Lafone, Alfred |
| Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn | Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Laurie, Lieut.-General |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning- (Corn |
| Brookfield, A. Montagu | Fletcher, Sir Henry | Lawrence, W. F. (Liverpool) |
| Brown, Alexander H. | Flower, Ernest | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) |
| Bryce, Rt. Hon. James | Foster, Sir Wal er (Derby Co.) | Lecky, Rt. Hn. William E. H. |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Fry, Lewis | Leese, Sir Jos. F. (Accrington) |
| Butcher, John George | Galloway, William Johnson | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Garfit, William | Leighton, Stanley |
| Caldwell, James | Gedge, Sydney | Leng, Sir John |
| Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (C. of Lon.) | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Gilliat, John Saunders | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J. | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Goddard, Daniel Ford | Lorne, Marquess of |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. | Gold, Charles | Lowe, Francis William |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Lowther, Rt. Hon. James (Kent) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Loyd, Archie Kirkman |
| Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon | Lucas-Shadwell, William |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Goschen, Rt. Hn. G.J. (St. George's) | Lyell, Sir Leonard |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Macartney, W. G. Ellison |
| Charrington, Spencer | Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley | Macdona, John Cumming |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Graham, Henry Robert | Maclean, James Mackenzie |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | M'Crae, George |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Green, W. D. (Wednesbury) | M'Ewan, William |
| Colomb, Sir John Charles R. | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Maddison, Fred. |
| Cook, Fred Lucas (Lambeth) | Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) | Malcolm, Ian |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow | Griffith, Ellis J. | Maple, Sir John Blundell |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Haldane, Richard Burdon | Marks, Henry Hananel |
| Courtney, Rt. Hon. Leonard H. | Halsey, Thomas Frederick | Martin, Richard Biddulph |
| Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W.F. | Quilter, Sir Cuthbert | Strust, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Uni. |
| Middlemore, J. Throgmoton | Reid, Sir R. Threshie | Tennant, Harold John |
| Milner, Sir Fred. George | Rentoul, James Alexander | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) |
| Milward, Colonel Victor | Richardson, J. (Durham, S. E.) | Thomas, Alfred (Glamorgan, E. |
| Monckton, Edward Philip | Richardson, Sir Thos. (Hartlep'l | Thomas, David Alfred (Merth'r |
| Monk, Charles James | Rickett, J. Compton | Thorburn, Sir Walter |
| Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel) | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| More, R. Jasper (Shropshire) | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) | Ure, Alexander |
| Morley, Rt. Hon. J. (Montrose | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Verney, Hon. Richard Greville |
| Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford | Robinson, Brooke | Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) |
| Moulton, John Fletcher | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Wallace, Robert |
| Muntz, Philip A. | Round, James | Ward, Hon. R. A. (Crewe) |
| Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) | Russell, Gen. F. S. (Cheltenh'm) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) | Wason, Eugene |
| Myers, William Henry | Sandys, Lieut. Col. Thos. Myles | Webster, Sir Richard E. |
| Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert | Weir, James Galloway |
| Nicholson, William Graham | Saunderson, Rt. Hn. Col. Ed. J. | Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E. |
| Nicol, Donald Niman | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard | Whitmore, Chas. Algernon |
| Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Seeley, Charles Hilton | Williams, John Carvell (Notts.) |
| O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Williams, Joseph P.- (Birm.) |
| Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Palmer, George Wm. (Reading) | Shaw-Stewart, M.H. (Renfrew | Wilson, Charles Henry (Hull) |
| Paulton, James Mellor | Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh'e | Wilson, Frederick W. (Norfolk) |
| Pease, Herbert P. (Darlington) | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) | Wilson, John (Govan) |
| Perks, Robert William | Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch) | Wodehouse, Ht. Hn. E.R. (Bath) |
| Pierpoint, Robert | Smith, James Parker (Lanarks. | Woods, Samuel |
| Pilkington, Sir G.A. (Lancs, S.W.) | Smith, Samuel (Flint) | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C.B. Stuart- |
| Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Plunkett, Rt. Hon. H. C. | Spencer, Ernest | Wyndham, George |
| Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Pretyman, Ernest George | Stephens, Henry Charles | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Price, Robert John | Stevenson, Francis S. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. | |
| Purvis, Robert | Strachey, Edward | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Hammond, John (Carlow) | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Hayden, John Patrick | Pinkerton, John |
| Blake, Edward | Healy, Maurice (Cork) | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Carvill, Patrick G. Hamilton | Jordan, Jeremiah | Redmond, John E. (Waterford |
| Clark, Dr. G. B. | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cum'land) | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Lough, Thomas | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Crean, Eugene | MacDonnell, Dr. M.A. (Q'n's C. | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Crilly, Daniel | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.) |
| Daly, James | M'Cartan, Michael | Tanner, Charles Kearns |
| Doogan, P. C. | M'Ghee, Richard | Tully, Jasper |
| Engledew, Charles John | Mandeville, J. Francis | |
| Farrell, James P. (Cavan, W.) | Murnaghan, George | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan. |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | |
| Flynn, James Christopher | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | |
| Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) |
§ Ordered, That, until the end of the financial year, financial business do have precedence on Tuesday whenever set down by the Government, and that the provisions of Standing Order 56 be extended to that day.