Commons Sitting of 7 August 1900

ASSASSINATION OF THE KING OF ITALY.
The Treasurer of the Household reported Her Majesty's Answer to the Address of the 31st day of July, as followeth:—
"I thank you for your loyal and dutiful address. I unite with you in
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the expression of indignation and deep concern at the tidings of the-assassination of my illustrious ally His Majesty the King of Italy, and I will not fail to convey to His Majesty's successor on the throne your sentiment of abhorrence at the perpetration of such a crime, and your sympathy with the Royal. Family of Italy, and with the Government and people of that country."

DEATH OF H.R.H. THE DUKE OF SAXE-COBURG AND GOTHA, DUKE OF EDINBURGH, K.G.
The Treasurer of the Household reported Her Majesty's Answer to the Address of the 2nd day of this instant August, as followeth:—
"I return you my most sincere thanks for your loyal and dutiful address expressing sympathy with me in the great loss which I have sustained by the death of my beloved son, the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and-Gotha. The assurance of your warm interest in all that concerns my family, and the declaration of your cordial feelings towards both myself and them, are a source to me of true: gratification and comfort."

PETITIONS.
  FACTORIES AND WORKSHOPS BILL.
  Petition from Hornsey, against; to lie upon the Table.
  SALE OF INTOXICATING LIQUORS TO CHILDREN (No. 2) BILL.
  Petitions in favour, from Neath; Aberavon; Swansea (two); Cwm Avon;, Brynhyfod; and Harringay; to lie upon the Table.
  SOLDIERS AND SAILORS ON ACTIVE SERVICE.
  Petition from Camberwell, for legislation; to lie upon the Table.

  SUNDAY CLOSING (MONMOUTHSHIRE) BILL.
  Petitions in favour, from Swansea (two); Neath; Brynhyfod; East Finch—

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  ley; and Aberavon; to lie upon the Table.

  SUNDAY CLOSING (WALES) ACT (1881) AMENDMENT BILL.
  Petitions in favour, from Aberavon; Swansea (two); and Neath (two); to lie upon the Table.
  TEMPERANCE REFORM THREEFOLD OPTION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Petition from Possilpark and Lamb-hill, in favour to lie upon the Table.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  COUNTY COURTS (PLAINTS AND SITTINGS).
  Return presented, relative thereto [Address 3rd August; Mr. Jesse Collings]; to lie upon the Table.
  REFORMATORY AND INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS (IRELAND).
  Copy presented, of Thirty-seventh Report of the Inspector [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  LUNATICS AND EPILEPTICS IN WORKHOUSES.
  Return presented, relative thereto; [ordered 6th August; Mr. John Hutton]; to lie upon the Table.
  EARNINGS OF AGRICULTURAL LABOURERS.
  Copy presented, of Report by Mr. Wilson Fox on the Wages and Earnings of Agricultural Labourers in the United Kingdom, with Statistical Tables and Charts; to lie upon the Table.
  PRIVATE LEGISLATION PROCEDURE (SCOTLAND) ACT, 1899.
  Copy presented, of General Orders for the Regulation of Proceedings under and in pursuance of The Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1899 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. (No. 356.)
  TRADE REPORTS (ANNUAL SERIES).
  Copies presented, of Diplomatic and Consular Reports, Annual Series, Nos. 2499–2503 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  GOVERNMENT LABORATORY.
  Copy presented, of Report of the Principal Chemist upon the work of the Government Laboratory for the year ended 31st March, 1900, with Appendices [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  INLAND REVENUE.
  Copy presented, of Forty-third Report of the Commissioners (for the year ended 31st March, 1900) [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  FEE FUND (HOUSE OF LORDS).
  Account presented, of the Fee Fund of the House of Lords from 1st April, 1899, to 31st March, 1900 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  NATIONAL DEBT.
  Copy presented, of Return showing (1) the Aggregate Gross Liabilities of the State as represented by the Nominal Funded Debt, Estimated Capital Value of Terminable Annuities, Unfunded Debt, and other Liabilities in respect of Debt, the Estimated Assets, and the Exchequer Balances at the close of each financial year from 1835–6 to 1899–1900, both inclusive; and (2) the Gross and Net Expenditure charged Annually during that period against the Public Revenue on account of the National Debt, and other payments connected with Capital Liabilities (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper [C. 9438] of Session 1899) [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  PUBLIC INCOME AND EXPENDITURE.
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 25th June; Sir Henry Fowler]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 357.]
  ARKLOW HARBOUR.
  Copy presented, of Report of the Arklow Harbour Commissioners and Statement of Accounts for 1899 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  CLERGY (WEST INDIES).
  Copy presented, of Return of the Amount payable on 5th January, 1900, out of the Consolidated Fund for Ecclesiastical purposes in the West Indies [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  SUPERANNUATION ACTS, 1859 and 1876.
  Copy presented, of Treasury Minute, dated 1st August, 1900, declaring Hang-chow, Soochow, Shashih, Samshui, and Wuchow, to be unhealthy places for the purposes of the Superannuation Acts, 1859 and 1876 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  INCOME TAX.
  Copy presented, of Treasury Warrant, dated 31st July, 1900, appointing Mr. Samuel Porter Foster, of Carlisle, to be a Special Commissioner of Income Tax [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  FORESHORES.
  Copy presented, of Treasury Minute, dated 7th August, 1900, directing the application of moneys received by the Board of Trade in the year ended 31st March, 1900, in respect of the rights and interests of the Crown in the Foreshores of the United Kingdom [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  ROYAL NIGER COMPANY.
  Account presented, of the money expended and borrowed and the Securities created under the Royal Niger Company Act, 1899 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE.
  Account presented, of Receipts and Expenditure of the Paymaster General on behalf of the Supreme Court of Judicature in respect of the Funds of Suitors of the Court in the year ended 28th February, 1900; and of Account of the National Debt Commissioners for the same period in respect of Funds held by them on behalf of the Supreme Court of Judicature; together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 358.]
  EMPLOYMENT OF CHILDREN OF SCHOOL AGE.
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 6th August; Mr. Ernest Gray]; to lie upon the Table.

  PAPERS LAID UPON THE TABLE BY THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE.
  1. Inquiry into Charities (County of Carmarthen).—Further Return relative thereto [ordered 10th February, 1898; Mr. Grant Lawson].
  2. Inquiry into Charities (County of Lancaster).— Further Return relative thereto [ordered 8th August, 1898; Mr. Grant Lawson].
  3. Inquiry into Charities (Administrative County of Durham).— Further Return relative thereto [ordered 14th February; Mr. Grant Lawson].
  4. Inquiry into Charities (County of Montgomery.—Further Return relative thereto [ordered 14th February; Mr. Grant Lawson].
  5. Endowed Charities (County of Brecknock).—Return relative thereto [ordered 6th August; Mr. Grant Lawson].
  6. Endowed Charities (County of Cardigan).—Return relative thereto [ordered 6th August; Mr. Grant Lawson].
  7. Endowed Charities (County of Pembroke).—Return relative thereto [ordered 6th August; Mr. Grant Lawson].
  8. Endowed Charities (County of Radnor).—Return relative thereto [ordered 6th August; Mr. Grant Lawson],

  LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) ACT, 1898, AND REGISTRATION (IRELAND) ACT, 1898 (ORDERS AND RULES).
  Copies ordered, "of Orders and Rules, or in certain cases Schedules enumerating Orders and Rules, made under or in consequence of the provisions of the Local Government (Ireland) Act, 1898 (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 360, of Session 1899)."—(Mr. G. W. Balfour.)
  Copies presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 359.]

  LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) ACT, 1898, AND REGISTRATION (IRELAND) ACT, 1898 (ORDERS AND RULES).
  Copy ordered, "of Index to Orders and Rules [presented 8th August, 18991."— (Mr. G. W. Balfour.)
  Copy presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 360.]

  POST OFFICE (DISTRICT MESSENGERS COMPANY).
  Return ordered, "of the amounts paid by the District Messengers and Theatre Ticket Company, Limited, to the Post Office, and of the payments made by the Post Office to the company, year by year from the commencement of their licence."— (Mr. Gibson, Bowles.)
  POST OFFICE (TELEPHONE SERVICE).
  Return ordered, "of the receipts of the Post Office from the Telephone Service." —(Mr. Gibson Bowles.)
  BRUSSELS CONFERENCE.
  Address for "Copy of the Report made to the India Office by Surgeon-Colonel Richardson in regard to the Conference on Venereal Disease held at Brussels in September, 1899."—(Mr. Henry J. Wilson.)
QUESTIONS.

  CHINA—ANTI —FOREIGN OUTBREAK—ADVANCE ON PEKING.
  SIR E. ASHMEAD - BARTLETT: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the British relief force and the relief forces of any other Powers have yet started from Tientsin. May I also ask if the Government have any confirmation of the reports as to the battle near Tientsin?
  THE UNDER SECRETARY of STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. Brodrick,): All the information the Government have received has been published.
  Sir E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: Has the relief force yet started?

  CHINESE GOVERNMENT TO BE PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE—STATEMENTS OF LI HUNG CHANG.
  MR. BAINBRIDGE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the statement reported to have been made by Li Hung Chang to the effect that the lives of the Ambassadors in Peking would probably be sacrificed if the allied Powers advanced into that city, it is proposed to make any communication to the effect that he will be held personally responsible for their safety.
  MR. BRODRICK: Her Majesty's Government have informed the Chinese Government that they will be held to be personally guilty if the members of the European Legations and other foreigners in Peking suffer injury. They do not consider that any useful purpose would be served by making a further communication of the character proposed.
  Sir E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: Will the right hon. Gentleman say to whom the statement has been made? He said "the Chinese Government."
  MR. PRITCHARD-MORGAN: Have the Government received any confirmation of the statement made by Li Hung Chang on Saturday last that all foreigners had left Peking for Tientsin under escort on the 2nd inst. If that statement is found to be correct, will the allied forces return to Tientsin pending the arrival of the Europeans at that port?
  MR. BRODRICK: No, Sir; we have no confirmation of the statement.

  BRITISH FLEET IN CHINESE WATERS.
  SIR EDWARD GOURLEY: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether all the vessels representing the British Navy now in Chinese waters are of suitable draft for the protection of the approaches to the Yang-tsze River from Woosung; will he also state if any and what type of craft are engaged in patrolling the river, and whether they are adapted for contending with armed

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  forts; and will he be good enough to state what arrangements are being made for a reserve of coal and other stores likely to be needed during the continuance of hostilities.
  The FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. Goschen, St. George's,): All vessels of the Fleet in Chinese waters are of suitable draught for the protection of the approaches to the Yang-tsze River. The heavy-draught ships must wait for certain tides. The question under what circumstances men-of-war on rivers would engage armed forts cannot be answered in the abstract, nor is it wise to discuss it. I am not prepared to state the arrangements for our reserves of naval stores at Hong Kong, but they have naturally received the most earnest attention of the Board of Admiralty.

  SOUTH AFRICAN WAR — PUBLICATION OF DESPATCHES.
  Captain SINCLAIR: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he can now state when the Government will publish the despatches relating to the military operations in South Africa which have taken place since the actions in February last at Spion Kop and at Stormberg.
  The FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. Balfour,): I hope that if things go well in South Africa the despatches will be published very soon.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Will the right hon. Gentleman give a guarantee that they will be published as originally sent, and not edited for publication?
  *MR. SPEAKER: Order, order!

  THE "RHODES-HAWKSLEY" CORRESPONDENCE.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, on 6th June, 1896, the cablegrams and letters known as the Rhodes-Hawksley correspondence were, at the Colonial Secretary's request, delivered to him by Mr. Hawksley, who wrote then a covering letter; whether copies of this correspondence have in accordance with
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  practice been retained at the Colonial Office; and, if not, can he say why they have not been so retained; has Mr. Hawksley's covering letter been retained at the Colonial Office; and was there a subsequent correspondence between Mr. Hawksley and the Colonial Secretary; and, whether the Colonial Secretary will now publish the correspondence between himself and Messrs. Rhodes and Hawksley.
  The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (Mr. J. Chamberlain,): I know of no correspondence which can properly be described as the Rhodes Hawksley correspondence, and I have never had any correspondence with Mr. Rhodes in connection with the Jameson raid. I have repeatedly stated that copies of the cables which passed between England and South Africa were sent to me for confidential perusal and return, and were returned accordingly, no copies being kept. The majority of those cables were subsequently produced by the cable company to the Committee of Inquiry. The substance of the covering letter and my reply was stated to the Committee. Several letters passed subsequently between MR. Hawksley and myself which I have offered to show to the Leader of the Opposition and to the right hon. Member for West Monmouthshire if they desire it. I see no reasons for publishing these letters.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Is there a "Hawksley-Chamberlain" correspondence or not?
  *MR. SPEAKER: Order, order!

  DISCOVERY OF DOCUMENTS AT BLOEMFONTEIN AND PRETORIA SAID TO IMPLICATE M.P.'S.
  Sir WILFRID LAWSON: I wish to ask the Colonial Secretary a question of which I have not given him private notice, but which, I think, he will have no difficulty in answering—whether he has received any communication from the Members of Parliament mentioned as having written letters to the Transvaal, and, if so, whether he is prepared to make any statement with regard to the letters or the course he intends to take.
  MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN: No, Sir. Copies of the letters attributed to these Gentlemen were only sent to them last night, and I have not had time to receive an answer.
  MR. DALZIEL: In the event of the alleged writers refusing permission to publish the letters, as the allegation is a serious one, will the right hon. Gentleman give the public an opportunity of judging by himself undertaking the responsibility of publishing them?
  MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN: I have not given the Gentlemen an opportunity of refusing permission. All I have asked is whether they have any observations or explanations to make.
  SIR WILFRID LAWSON: Will the right hon. Gentleman take an opportunity of publishing them at all?
  MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN: I told the House on the last occasion when I was asked a question on the subject that when I received replies from the gentlemen Her Majesty's Government would consider the matter.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Will you publish them to-morrow morning for us to discuss them?

  ENGLISH VOLUNTEERS JOINING IN SOUTH AFRICA—PASSAGE HOME.
  MR. PHILIP STANHOPE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether ho is aware that a number of young men who went out to South Africa at their own expense to join some of the colonial forces, such as Brabant's Horse, the Kaffrarian Rifles, or the Border Horse, are not in a position to defray the cost of the return journey to England; and whether, at the conclusion of the war, arrangements will be made to give these men, who have been serving their country, a free return passage home.
  *THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. Wyndham,): The suggestion will be considered.

  TYPHOID FEVER — STATISTICS.
  SIR WALTER FOSTER: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he can
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  give the number of deaths from typhoid fever and the number of admissions for that disease at Bloemfontein for the weeks ending 29th June, 6th July, and 13th July; and whether he can state the total number of admissions for typhoid fever among the forces in South Africa up to the end of June, and the number of deaths from that disease.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: These figures are not yet available. I will arrange that they shall be communicated to the hon. Member when they are.

  ARMY MEDICAL CORPS — REINFORCEMENTS.
  SIR WALTER FOSTER: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War if he can state the strength of the reinforcement of trained men of the Royal Army Medical Corps which it has been recently decided to send out to South Africa.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The strength of the reinforcements is 300.

  PROBABLE DURATION OF THE WAR.
  SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is in a position to give the House any information as to the probable end of the war in the Transvaal.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: My right hon. friend asks me to answer this question. I must, however, decline to prophesy.
  MR. DALZIEL: Did not the hon. Gentleman say yesterday it would be over "in a few weeks"?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: I may have dropped that phrase. It would be my estimate, but then my estimate is not of any value.

  WARLIKE STORES PURCHASED ABROAD.
  MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON:I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War if he can now state the total amount of the payments made, or to be made, for stores purchased abroad for the South African campaign up to 31st December, 1899.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: I must refer the honourable Member to the answer which I gave him on the 3rd of August† If he wishes to have the information I will arrange for it to be communicated to him unofficially.—In answer to a further question Mr. Wyndham said he would give the totals now and the. details at some later date, when they could be communicated without injury to the public interest.

  CAPTURES OF BOER GUNS AND RIFLES.
  MR. BAINBRIDGE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he can state the quantity of arms of all descriptions which have been taken from the Boers since the commencement of hostilities; and whether the Commander-in-Chief has been asked to report at the conclusion of the war as to the number of Boer guns which may then be unaccounted for.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: We have no information of the total number of rifles captured. We have no conclusive information as to the number of guns captured. In regard to the second paragraph, the matter may be left to the discretion of the Commander-in-Chief in South Africa.

  HEROISM IN THE FIELD—PUBLICATION OF REPORTS.
  General LAURIE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, as the despatches from the generals commanding in the field in South Africa, which the Government consider it is inexpedient to publish, should in accordance with precedent contain the names of officers and men brought to notice for heroism and gallantry in action, and, as delay in making such notice public materially weakens this as a reward for such service, it would be possible as a recognition to those still serving, and as a gratification to the relatives of those who have fallen, that extracts from these despatches could at once be published giving the names of those thus distinguished as well as the particulars of the services rendered.
  † See page 634, of this volume.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: It would not be easy to separate the passages in which officers' names are mentioned from the context, but we have every hope that it may be found possible to publish the, despatches before long.

  FORAGE RATIONS.
  General LAURIE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the daily forage ration allowed to cavalry and artillery officers in South Africa was ever fixed at 6 lb. oats and 4 lb. hay per horse; if so, how long this regulation was in force, and under whose advice it was so established; whether any protests as to the insufficiency of this allowance, which is less than half the forage ration issued in this country, were made by officers commanding cavalry regiments and batteries of artillery or by the generals, under whose command they served whether any change has been made in the quantity allowed per horse; and whether it is recognised that horses picketed in the open air, and more particularly in a changeable climate, require a larger quantity of food than horses kept in stables.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The daily ration fixed by general orders in South Africa is 12 lb. grain or 2 lb. hay in lieu of each pound of grain up to a maximum of 8 lb. Nothing is known of the ration alluded to in the question or of any protest against it. The only change made was an addition of 2 lb. of grain and hay at depots near the coast when sufficient quantities are procurable. The supplies, available at the base are ample.
  General LAURIE: Has the hon. Gentleman's attention been called to a letter in The Times, dated Cape Town,. 15th June, in which it is stated that while this short ration was being issued, forage was actually being burned?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The ration depends not so much on the amount laid down in the regulations, but on the possibility of supplying it during these rapid marches.

  ESTATE OF DECEASED SOLDIERS—INFORMATION FOR RELATIVES.
  MR. DALZIEL: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War what

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  steps are taken to inform relatives of deceased soldiers in South Africa of the amount of pay that may be due at time of decease; and whether the desirability of increased publicity will be considered by the War Office.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: Communications of death are made at once to the next of kin in all cases in which the address is known, and they are told to apply to the War Office for anything which may be due; the amount of the estate as soon as known is distributed. Unclaimed estates of deceased soldiers are published in the Monthly Army Lists, avid at the depots, and in one or two weekly papers best adapted for the purpose.

  SETTLEMENT AFTER WAR—VIEWS OF CANADA AND AUSTRALASIA.
  MR. FABER: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, considering the part taken by Canada and Australia in the South African War, it is proposed to ascertain the views of the Governments of those countries in regard to the settlement and government of the Transvaal and Orange State when the war is over.
  MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN: I have already made myself acquainted with the views of the colonies of Canada and Australasia in regard to the main points of the future settlement, and Her Majesty's Government are in complete accordance with them as to the necessity for annexation, the establishment of a Government supported by military force, with the ultimate expectation of an extension to both colonies of representative self-government.

  THE SUPPLEMENTAL WAR LOAN.
  MR. COHEN: I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will explain the reason for the early closing this morning of the list of subscriptions for the issue of Exchequer bonds.
  *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir M. Hicks Beach,): The list was closed as soon as it was ascertained that the bonds offered had been amply covered, because I was advised that this course would, on the whole, cause less disappointment than
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  a very small allotment in proportion to-the amount subscribed for. I may say that a part of the issue was already taken. Before settling what the issue should be, I had endeavoured to ascertain, by the usual confidential inquiries whether the terms which I felt justified in offering would be likely to attract subscribers here. I received such very moderate encouragement that I accepted an offer made to me by the leading Anglo-American houses in London to place half, the issue in the United States on the terms at which I had decided to offer it here. I did this not only on financial grounds. But financially it assured the success of the issue; and it had another great advantage. Last Thursday the-reserve of the Bank of England stood at the lowest point at which it has stood at this time of the year for seven years; and I was advised by those best competent to judge that great relief might be afforded here by the movement of gold from the United States, if a large part of this loan were taken there. I regret any disappointment caused to those who were shut out by early closing; but I hope it may be to some extent mitigated by a, consideration of the very important point to which I have just referred.

  EXCISE DUTY—REBATES ON IRISH TOBACCO FOR SOUTH AFRICAN TROOPS.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware of complaints being made that the usual rebate of excise duty was not allowed on consigments of tobacco sent from Dublin to the troops in South Africa; whether he can explain the reason; and will he see that the amount of the rebate claimed is refunded.
  *SIR M. HICKS BEACH: No complaints have been received as to the nonpayment of drawback on British manufactured tobacco exported, except with regard to certain shipments by one firm, the particulars of which have been communicated to me by the hon. Member. Before any drawback can be paid the law requires that the shipment and exportation of the goods shall be duly certified by the export officer. In the case now under reply the tobacco was removed under bond by a firm of licensed tobacco, manufacturers at Dublin to Southampton,

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  for shipment for the troops in South Africa, but it was not produced to the officers of Customs at Southampton prior to shipment at that port, and the Board of Customs were consequently unable to sanction payment of drawback. They have informed the firm that on receipt of local evidence from Southampton as to the shipment of the case and of an official certificate of the landing of the tobacco in South Africa, they would further consider the question. No such evidence or certificate has yet been produced, but the Board are awaiting a further communication from the firm.

  IMPERIAL YEOMANRY—DELAYED DELIVERY OF SUPPLIES AND CLOTHING.
  MR. H. S. FOSTER: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War who is responsible for the clothing and feeding of the Imperial Yeomanry at the front, and if he can state why the men of Paget's Horse (Imperial Yeomanry) were early in July engaged on convoy duty in a state of semi-starvation, between Smid's Drift and Daniel's Kraal, their daily rations consisting of a small piece of bread and no biscuits, whilst they were taking up convoys of provisions to Sir Charles Warren; and who is responsible for the arrangements under which these men find it impossible to cash postal orders issued from the London post offices and sent out to them, and which it was stated in London could be cashed at any camp post office with the forces, the result being that the men were unable to purchase the abundant food supplies of the rebels and were unable to obtain proper supplies from their own forces.
  The following questions also appeared on the Paper:—
  MR. H. S. FOSTER: To ask the Under Secretary of State for War if he is now able to state who is responsible for the continuous non-delivery of warm clothing and other comforts, sent out in quantities weekly since the departure of the Imperial Yeomanry, and extending therefore over some months; and will any opportunity be afforded to persons in this country of giving evidence as to the quantity of such comforts sent out weekly by them, and not one of which has been delivered.
  MR. H. S. FOSTER: To ask the Under Secretary of State for War who is responsible for the men of Paget's Horse (Imperial Yeomanry) being in a state of rags in the month of July; whether they have yet been supplied with proper clothing, having regard to the severity of the nights in South Africa; and whether, as the men of this and other Volunteer corps gave up their occupations and comforts in order to answer the invitation of the Government, searching inquiry will; be made to ascertain how far the hardships to which they have been subjected I could have been avoided or mitigated by those responsible.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: If my hon. friend will permit me I will reply to his three questions together. There is no official information of the want of food or clothing mentioned; the responsibility for getting food and clothing to the front rests with the Commander-in-Chief in South Africa and his staff. In regard to the delivery of comforts I have already explained that an inquiry is being made in South Africa. Food and clothing naturally take precedence of comforts. The General Post Office made arrangements that postal orders issued in London should be cashed at any field post office in South Africa. If there is any evidence of failure in these arrangements I shall be happy to make inquiry. The general questions raised by the hon. Member—namely, whether our arrangements for transport and supply can be improved, and whether they have been turned to the best account during the present war—are of the highest importance and will form the subject of careful inquiry when the war is over.

  CAVALRY CARBINES.
  Colonel WELBY: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State' for War whether he is aware of the disadvantage in which our cavalry in South Africa have been placed by the imperfect sighting and deficient range of their carbines as compared with the rifles used by the Boers; whether these carbines are still being manufactured; and whether it is under consideration to rearm the cavalry with a weapon of full accuracy and range, even if it necessitates their carrying a long rifle in place of the carbine.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The question of substituting rifles for carbines cannot be taken up until full reports have been received from South Africa. Such reports have not yet been received, and, for the present, carbines are still being manufactured. The question of sighting has been reported on in this country, and new tests are now under consideration.

  ARMY CONTRACTS—HUNGARIAN FLOUR FOR SOUTH AFRICA.
  SIR HOWARD VINCENT; I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether contracts for flour have been recently placed in Hungary for South Africa; and if he will adhere to his policy of giving a preference to home industries to the utmost possible extent in providing the Army with its supplies.
  *THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE WAR OFFICE (Mr. J. Powell Williams,): No contracts for the purchase of flour have been recently placed in Hungary by the War Department. My lion, and gallant friend may rest assured that no stores will be purchased outside the United Kingdom that can be as readily and satisfactorily obtained at home.

  VOLUNTEER MEDICAL OFFICERS AT THE FRONT—COLONIAL ALLOWANCES.
  MR. THORNTON: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the 400 Volunteer medical officers serving in South Africa are to be placed on the same financial footing as members of the Army Medical Corps, who receive colonial allowances of 1s. 6d. per day in the Cape Colony, and a larger gratuity of over 4s. a day both in the Orange River Colony and the Transvaal.
  I beg also to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, as the civil surgeons of the Army do not enjoy colonial allowance, they yet receive the same aggregate amount of pay as other medical men under Lord Roberts's command; and, if an inequality exists, whether he will endeavour to rectify it.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: In reply to the two questions asked by the lion. Member
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  I about the pay of civil medical practitioners serving in South Africa, I may say that the position of these gentlemen differs in one important particular from that of officers of the Royal Army Medical Corps. The latter receive rates of pay which are calculated with reference to the general services which they have to perform at all times and in all parts of the world. The conditions of the present war are, however, unusual as regards the specially high cost of living in South Africa, and it was therefore thought reasonable that special colonial allowances should be granted to them to enable them to meet this extra expense. The case of the civil surgeons is quite different. They made a special contract for service in South Africa during the present war, and there is therefore nothing unforeseen in the conditions of their service which we feel called upon to meet by an alteration in their favour in the terms of the contract. As a matter of fact they receive higher emoluments than many of the officers of the Royal Army Medical Corps. My attention has been called to the fact that civil veterinary surgeons are receiving colonial allowances. That is so, the reason being that they are paid at the rate of Army veterinary surgeons, and not at a special rate calculated with a view to the present war.

  SEPARATION ALLOWANCES.
  MR. MOSS: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War if his attention has been called to the case of Jane Edith Owen, wife of 2481, Private J. T. Owen, 2nd Battalion Scots Guards, now on active service with Her Majesty's forces in South Africa; and whether he is aware that before enlisting Private Owen was promised that his wife should receive, during his absence, a sum of 1s. 1d. per day separation allowance and 2d. a day for his child; that this promise was confirmed by a letter to Mrs. Owen, dated 24th March, 1900, from Captain King, of the Scots Guards; and that the only sum now received by Mrs. Owen and her child is a sum of 6d. per day allotted to her by her husband before leaving for the war.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: An inquiry is being made into this case.

  ORANGE RIVER COLONY—PENNY POSTAGE.
  MR. EVELYN CECIL: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster Genera], whether the Post Office has yet come to any decision with regard to the establishment of penny postage to the Orange River Colony, especially in view of the surcharges which have been frequently made on poor recipients of letters; and whether it would be possible to establish penny postage with the Transvaal so soon as its annexation is proclaimed.
  THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Mr. HANBURY,): No decision has yet been come to. Although the 2½d. rate of postage must, for the present, remain applicable to the letters of the general public, those sent from or to the British forces serving in South Africa are specially exempted from surcharges.

  MILITIA BATTALIONS AT BULFORD CAMP.
  SIR J. FERGUSSON: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the Militia battalions now encamped at Bulford have been in the last six months repeatedly moved, or have received orders to move, which have been at the last moment countermanded, thus entailing much trouble and expense to individuals; whether it is intended to move these battalions repeatedly in the next few months, and whether such frequent changes were and are unavoidable on public grounds; and if the Secretary of State will consider whether they are calculated to discourage recruiting and re-engagements.
  *Mr. WYNDHAM: My information does not confirm the statement that there have been repeated moves, or that orders have been given and countermanded at the last moment; but a certain number of moves have been necessary in order that the ground might be cleared for building huts. I have explained to the House on former occasions that the deficiencies in our barrack accommodation, which we are spending a great deal of money to remedy, render such shiftings unavoidable.
  Sir HOWARD VINCENT: Can the hon. Gentleman say how long the Militia are to be kept up?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: There are several questions down as to that. I cannot give-the date of their disembodiment.

  MILITIA EMBODIMENT—DURATION.
  Sir EDWARD GOURLEY: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether it is intended to disband those regiments of Militia which were embodied, in November last before those that have only been out since May; and can he state how long the embodiment is likely to continue, inasmuch as employers of labour are anxious to know whether they are likely to got their old hands back again for the winter, or whether they will have to fill up permanently the places of the men who are now embodied.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: I have already explained that it is impossible at the present time to state when disembodiment will take place, but the battalions first embodied will have a strong claim to be the first released.
  MR. HEDDERWICK: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State-for War if he will state how long it is, intended to keep the Militia Artillery regiments, which were embodied at the beginning of May, under canvas; how long the authorities mean to keep them: on active service; and, if they are to be retained on active service after 30th September, what the War Office moans to-do with them.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: I can add nothing to the reply to a similar question put by-the hon. Member for the Montgomery District on the 3rd instant.† The Militia will not be kept in tents after the camping; reason is over. It is not possible at the present moment to say when the Militia will be disembodied.

  OFFICERS' MESSES AND QUARTERS—FURNISHING SCHEME.
  Sir HOWARD VINCENT: I beg to, ask the Under Secretary of State for War if any progress has been made with the furnishing of officers' mess and married
  † See page 637 of this volume.

  917
  men's quarters in the United Kingdom, so as to decrease the cost of home transport and the difficulty of moving officers and regiments from one station to another.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The question of furnishing officers' mosses and quarters is one factor in the general problem of reducing officers' expenses, which, as I have explained, must be treated as a whole. I Some progress has already been made in dealing with it, and the hon. Member may be assured that the matter will receive attention during the autumn.

  CHELSEA BARRACKS—OFFICERS' DRESSING ROOMS.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE-JONES: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the dressing room and sanitary arrangements provided for officers of the Militia and Volunteers at the school of instruction at Chelsea Barracks have been improved; and, if not, can he say when it is proposed to carry out these improvements.
  MR. WYNDHAM: No complaint has been received as to the accommodation at Chelsea Barracks for the officers referred to. As I pointed out in reply to my hon. and gallant friend on the 10th, July last year, any representation on the subject should be made through the General Officer Commanding Home District; and pending the receipt of such representations action cannot be taken.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE-JONES: Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that I had the honour of making a complaint?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: It should have been made to the General Officer Commanding the Home District. This House is the court of appeal—it cannot be made a court of first instance to deal with minor details.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE - JONES: I made written complaint to the General Officer Commanding the Home District, and he promised to do something in the matter.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: My information is that no complaint has been received.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE- JONES: As a matter of fact, I made one.

  RESERVISTS AND THE PARLIAMENTARY VOTES.
  MR. GOULDING: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, in the event of a General Election, railway warrants will be issued to men doing duty with the colours in the United Kingdom, in order that they may record their votes.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: In the event of a General Election the question will be considered.

  SALISBURY PLAIN—LIGHTNING FATALITY TO A VOLUNTEER—COMPENSATION.
  Lieut.- COLONEL PRYCE- JONES: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War what compensation will be paid to the representatives of a member of the 1st Volunteer Battalion, the South Wales Borderers, recently encamped on Salisbury Plain, who was killed by lightning on 28th July; and whether he will consider the propriety of extending the present regulations applicable in this case, and also in all similar cases where death results in performance of their military duties, and when subject to military law.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The regulations do not admit of the grant of "compensation in such cases oven to Regular troops; but, as I have informed the House, this subject is now under consideration.

  VOLUNTEER CAMPS ON SALISBURY PLAIN—TRANSPORT ARRANGEMENTS, ETC.
  Lieut.-Colonel PRYCE-JONES: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether better transport arrangements in connection with camps on Salisbury Plain will be effected by another year, as inconvenience and loss have resulted to Volunteer regiments this summer.
  I beg further to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware of the inadequacy of the provision for Volunteers on Salisbury Plain for washing purposes; and if steps will be taken to remedy this grievance in future.
  I beg also to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he can make

  919
  any general announcement with regard to the intentions of the Government as regards their future policy towards Volunteers, e.g., respecting regimental camp allowances, brigade camp allowances, pay and allowances to officers and men, capitation and other grants, and minimum and maximum duration, and whether optional or obligatory of camps in future.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: Any changes in the existing regulations and provisions for Volunteers and their camps must necessarily be based on the experience derived from the camps now being held. The information in our possession does not lead to the conclusion that the arrangements made this year have, as the hon. Member supposes, been inadequate; and even if it were possible to frame a scheme before the camp trainings are complete, and to report on them to hand, the proper time for presenting it would be when asking Parliamentary sanction for the Estimates of the year. I need hardly remind my hon. and gallant friend that the arrangements for the camps this year are for this year only.

  DUKE OF YORK'S SCHOOL—MEDICAL OFFICER.
  SIR J. FERGUSSON: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the medical officer of the Duke of York's School has been re-appointed at the expiration of his term of appointment, and whether ho has been recommended for such extension by the Director General of the Army Medical Department and the Commandant of the Duke of York's School.
  MR. WYNDHAM: The medical officer of the Duke of York's School was re-appointed in May, 1899. The recommendation for such extension was made by the Commander-in-Chief after a special inquiry into this officer's efficiency.—In answer to a further question the hon. Gentleman said he would not be justified in going into the facts upon what the Commander-in-Chief made his recommendation, but he did appoint a special inquiry to ascertain whether the medical officer was efficient or not, and the conclusion arrived at by those charged with the duty was that he was perfectly efficient.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Was it referred to the Board of Patronage of which we have heard so much?
  [No answer was given.]

  PENSIONS—CASE OF JOSEPH BLACK.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Joseph Black enlisted at Dumfries in 1855, and as sergeant volunteered at Aldershot when serving there in 1858 to the 11th Hussars, and served continuously in that regiment till 1871, and that he served again in the 5th Battalion King's Own Scottish Borderers from 1873 till 1894, being; colour sergeant for the last fifteen years; whether he is aware that Black's pension on discharge is 8½d. per diem by reason of the last period only of his service being computed; whether Black has represented to the War Office that he engaged for the last period on the assurance given him, by H.R.H. the Duke of Cambridge, the late Commander-in-Chief, through his Colonel, Sir G. C. Walker, K.C.B., that, the whole of his service should be reckoned, for pension on discharge, and if inquiries have been made as to the accuracy of that, representation; and whether 8½d. a day is, according to War Office Regulations, the proper recompense for so long a, service.
  MR. J. POWELL-WILLIAMS: This case has been frilly explained to the House on a previous occasion. The man received the pension to which he was entitled under regulations which apply to his service, and no one had any power to make any such promise as that referred to.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the promise was distinctly made by the Duke of Cambridge?
  *MR. J. POWELL-WILLIAMS:I am not aware of that.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Then you ought to be.
  *MR. SPEAKER: Order, order!

  SALISBURY PLAIN—MILITARY USE OF CULTIVATED LAND.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE-JONES: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether it is intended to make use of the cultivated ground on Salisbury Plain for military purposes, inasmuch as during the last month there has been no room for brigade drills at Bulford Camp, although certain battalions lost two whole days, out of twelve working days, in travelling to and from Salisbury Plain, and that the musketry shooting could have been done nearer home and at less cost to the public.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: A scheme has been formed, and is being carried out, by which all cultivated land on Salisbury Plain belonging to the Government, outside certain areas, will revert to grass. But to carry out such a scheme in accordance with the terms of the leases and without injury to tenants naturally takes a considerable time.

  VOLUNTEER, MILITIA, AND YEOMANRY STATISTICS.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE-JONES: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he will issue a Return, after the close of the Volunteer year, giving the following information, namely, the acreage, rateable value, and population of each county in England, Scotland, and Wales, respectively, and the number of efficient members of the Yeomanry and Volunteers, respectively, on the rolls at the end of the last Volunteer year, and also on the rolls at the end of the current Volunteer year; also of the Militia, those resident in each county, those non-resident; also (for Yeomanry and Volunteers) columns giving particulars of regiments represented in South Africa, and distinguishing those which have earned the special grant, together with the percentage of attendance of their enrolled strength; also stating the financial position of each corps, and enumerating their assets, such as ranges, drill halls, machine guns, transport, and other accessories in different columns.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: Information on some of these subjects is being collected, and I hope to be able to issue a Return which will contain a part at least of what the hon. and gallant Member asks for.

  RESERVE REGIMENTS—PROMOTIONS.
  Colonel SANDYS: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that, in some of the reserve battalions, majors in the Army have been put on duty as subalterns; that in the reserve battalions seniority is not regarded, and the latest joined officers are put over the heads of officers senior to them in the Army; and that in the reserve battalions officers and men from different regiments are mixed up indiscriminately in the same reserve battalion, to the detriment of regimental esprit; and if there is any reason why there, should not be a reserve battalion for each regiment of the Line, formed exclusively from officers, non-commissioned officers and men who have served together in that regiment before.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: As there were hardly any officers of the rank of subaltern in the reserve, majors have been obliged to do duty as subalterns. Seniority in the reserve battalions within each rank depends on the date of joining such battalion for duty. Officers and men are not mixed up indiscriminately; the various territorial corps have been grouped to form battalions, as the unequal numbers joining from the several corps have rendered the formation of a reserve battalion for each regiment impossible.

  COMMITTEE ON NAVAL BOILERS.
  SIR FORTESCUE FLANNERY: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty if he can now conveniently inform the House as to the constitution of the Committee to inquire into the boilers of Her Majesty's ships, and whether he can also inform the House of the terms of reference to the Committee.
  MR. GOSCHEN: I am composing the Committee as follows. It will consist of seven members:—The President, Vice-Admiral Sir Compton Domvile, who has had under his command fleets of ships with both cylindrical and water-tube boilers, and will have them again; Mr. List, the superintending engineer of the Castle Company; Mr. Bain, the superintending engineer of the Cunard Line;

  923
  MR. Milton, chief engineer surveyor of Lloyd's Registry of Shipping (this gentleman sat on the former Admiralty Committee on Boilers in 1892); Professor Kennedy, formerly Professor of Engineering at University College, now an engineer in large practice, with special experience in the trials of engines and boilers; sixthly, an engineer of the Royal Navy holding the rank of inspector of machinery. As regards the seventh member of the Committee, I am still engaged in making the selection. The instructions to the Committee will be to the following effect, though I do not pledge myself to the precise wording of the reference:— To ascertain practically and experimentally the relative advantages and disadvantages of the Belleville boiler for naval purposes as compared with the cylindrical boiler; to investigate the causes of the defects which have occurred in these boilers and in the machinery of ships fitted with them, and to report how far they are preventable either by modifications of details or by difference of treatment, or how far they are inherent in the system. Also to report generally on the suitability of the propelling and auxiliary machinery fitted in recent war vessels, and to offer any suggestions for improvement, stating at the same time the effect as regards weight and space of any alterations proposed. To report on the advantages and disadvantages of the Niclausse and Babcock and Wilcox boilers compared with the Belleville as far as the means at the disposal of the Committee permit, and also to report whether any other description of boiler has sufficient advantages over the Belleville or the other two types mentioned, as a boiler for large cruisers and battleships, to make it advisable to fit it in any of Her Majesty's ships for trial. For the purpose of making direct experiments between ships fitted with Belleville and cylindrical boilers respectively, the "Hyacinth," fitted with Belleville boilers, will be placed at the disposal of the Committee. A cruiser of similar type fitted with cylindrical boilers will also be placed at the disposal of the Committee when required for the purpose of comparison. For the investigation of defects, copies of the reports of all the defects of machinery and boilers which, have occurred during the naval manœuvres will be placed before the Committee, and they will be able to inspect the ships spe-
  924
  cially commissioned for the manœuvres. On the arrival of the "Europa" from Australia it is proposed that the investigation into the causes of her high coal expenditure should be conducted under the directions of the Committee, and that she should afterwards be put through such trials as they may think necessary. Information on any special points connected with the behaviour of the boilers or machinery of water-tube boiler ships on ordinary peace service which the Committee may desire to have can be obtained from any of Her Majesty's ships in commission, and opportunities can be taken when the Channel Squadron is in any of the home ports to examine the boilers and machinery of the "Diadem," "Arrogant," and "Furious, "which have Belleville boilers, and the "Pactolus, "which is fitted with the Blechynden boilers. The "Pelorus, "fitted with Normand boilers, which has recently returned from three years continuous service in the Channel Squadron and at the Cape of Good Hope, and the "Powerful" will also be available for examination during their refits. The "Sharpshooter," fitted with Belleville boilers without economisers, the "Seagull," fitted with Niclausse, and the "Sheldrake" with Babcock and Wilcox boilers, will be employed in training stokers, and will be available for examination, and, if necessary, for any comparative experiments between these boilers that the Committee may wish to make. It is particularly desired that any conclusions the Committee may arrive at should be supported by experimental proof as far as possible, and that they should propose any further experiments they think necessary for this purpose.
  SIR FORTESCUE FLANNERY: May I ask whether the words in the earlier part of the reference—namely, "causes of failure in the boilers"—includes examination as to the sufficiency of the engineers and stokers who attend them. Should not that naturally be in the reference to the Committee? Is it not the intention of the Admiralty to inquire into the question of the personnel?
  MR. GOSCHEN: No, Sir. It would not be naturally in the reference to the Committee. Of course, if there are any defects discovered which are due to the causes the hon. Member suggests, the Committee will be at perfect liberty to state them.
  MR. C. H. WILSON: Have any of the engineers of the companies named had any experience with water-tube boilers?
  MR. GOSCHEN: No, Sir; neither in the Castle Line nor in the Cunard Line. On the other hand, the naval engineer and inspector of machinery will have had experience of the water-tube boiler.
  MR. GIBSON BOWLES: Will the professor of engineering have had experience?
  MR. GOSCHEN: The professor of engineering is, I believe, looked up to as a great authority on all these questions, and has examined them scientifically. I believe ho has already been engaged in trials with regard to waste of water and matters of that kind which will make his assistance particularly valuable.
  MR. GIBSON BOWLES: Will the Report of the Committee deal with the manœuvres of last year as well as this?
  Mr. GOSCHEN: No, Sir. I do not think their labours ought to be extended beyond the limits I have laid down. Otherwise it might be ages before they report. My hon. friend will see that the work I have cut out for them is very considerable.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: Is it intended to invite the hon. Member for Gateshead to serve on this Committee?
  MR. GOSCHEN: No, Sir. I have not proposed to place any Member of Parliament on the Committee. If the hon. Member for Gateshead were placed on the Committee, other Members of Parliament would be equally entitled to a place. I look upon this as a practical scientific investigation, to be kept entirely apart from anything which has passed in this House. This will leave hon. Members of this House real liberty in discussing the Report of the Committee.

  SUBMARINE BOATS.
  SIR FORTESCUE FLANNERY:I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty if he can see his way to state what investigations are being made in this country into the question of submarine
  926
  boats; and whether it is the intention of the Admiralty to proceed with the building of any experimental submarine ship as is now being done in the case of at least two foreign navies.
  MR. GOSCHEN: I must refer the hon. Gentleman to my previous statements in the House in answer to the hon. Gentlemen the Member for West Newington and the Member for Bolton on the 6th April and 3rd May last.†

  STEAM COAL FOR THE NAVY.
  MR. HEDDERWICK: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Amiralty if he will state the quantity of naval steam coal at present stored at ports in the United Kingdom and in British coaling stations abroad; and whether such coal is protected by covering sheds or otherwise from the disintegrating and wasting effects of atmospheric action.
  MR. GOSCHEN: It is not in the interests of the public service to give the information asked for in the first paragraph of the question. Coal at foreign stations is generally protected by covering sheds, but not in the home ports where the turn-over is rapid.

  INDIA—FAMINE STATISTICS.
  SIR MANCHERJEE BHOWNAG-GREE: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India if he has any further information about the rainfall in the districts affected by the famine in India, and whether the prospects of the ensuing crops are improved; and if he has received from Lord Curzon any reports regarding his inspection last week of the affected provinces in Western India.
  THE SECRETARY of STATE for INDIA (Lord G. Hamilton,): The Government of India telegraph to-day as follows—
  "Famine. Very decided improvement in last ten days through sudden opportune I renewed advance of the monsoon. The rain which has fallen is ample for present agricultural requirements in Gujarat, also in the greater part of Rajputana and Central India. Sowings Being actively prosecuted so far as
  † See The Parliamentary Debates [Fourth Series], Vol. lxxxi., p. 1402; Vol. lxxxii., p. 583.

  927
  scarcity of plough bullocks permits. If present favourable conditions continue considerable autumn crops will be secured and tension will relax."
  On the 6th August the Governor of Bombay reported that—
  "Rainfall continues in affected area. Agricultural operations are progressing satisfactorily in Gujarat, Panch Mahals, and Kathiawar. Elsewhere agricultural prospects are encouraging. Numbers on relief works and gratuitous relief increased."
  I have not yet received from the Viceroy any special reports regarding what he has witnessed during the inspections he is now making of the famine districts.

  IRRIGATION AND WATER STORAGE WORKS.
  MR. SOUTTTAK: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether any proposals have been made or projects prepared for conservation by dams or reservoirs of the waters of the Nerbudda and Tapti rivers, the monsoon floods of which are now rushing to the sea through the Central Provinces and Gujerat, where the people and cattle have been perishing for want of water; and if no such plans have as yet been proposed, will the Indian Government consider whether it may even yet be practicable to store and utilise some portion of the volume of water which will otherwise be largely wasted.
  LORD G. HAMILTON: If the hon. Gentleman wishes it, I will consult the Indian Government upon this matter; but so far as I know, neither of these rivers could be associated with large and effective irrigation works.

  GREAT INDIAN PENINSULA RAILWAY—REPAYMENT OF GOVERNMENT ADVANCES.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether, in the transactions whereby the property and interests of the Great Indian Peninsula Railway Company were taken over and acquired by the Government of India, account was taken of the debt due to the State in respect of sums advanced from India's general revenues to make up the dividends guaranteed to the company or for other purposes; and seeing that the aggregate total of these advances to the three remaining
  928
  guaranteed companies (including the Great Indian Peninsula) still amounts to over Rx. 35,000,000, can he state what means, if any, there are by which the Indian revenues may recover the amount of those advances.
  LORD G. HAMILTON: Under contract of 30th November, 1870, between the Secretary of State for India in Council and the Great Indian Peninsula Railway Company, the company gave up its right to more than half the surplus profits in the event of advances of interest being entirely repaid, and in return the Government abandoned all claim to repayment of such advances in any other manner. Similar arrangements were made with the Bombay, Baroda, and Central India and Madras Railway Companies.

  SUPREME EXECUTIVE COUNCIL IN INDIA—PENSIONS.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India, whether he can state when and whence the proposals originated to the effect that the Law and Finance Members of the Supreme Executive Council in India are each to have pensions of £750 after their five years of office terminate, and whether the present incumbents of those posts are to receive these new pensions; and by what authority has this permanent addition to Indian expenditure been imposed, and will Parliament have an opportunity to consider the proposal for these new pensions.
  LORD G. HAMILTON: No resolution to the effect suggested has been passed, though the question of adding to the pecuniary attractions of these two appointments for persons not in the permanent employ of the Government has been under consideration. Should it be deemed advisable to take the action indicated, the Secretary of State in Council will be guided by the requirements of the statutes defining his powers in respect of Indian expenditure.

  COOPER'S HILL ENGINEERS.
  MR. KIMBER: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been called to a Despatch No. 15, P. W., dated 28-1-90,
  from the Government of India, dealing

  929
  with matters to be brought before the Select Committee of the House of Commons, and specially affecting the claims of the Cooper's Hill Engineers; and whether the evidence therein contained was laid before that Committee; and, if not, why it was with held.
  LORD G. HAMILTON: The question as to the selection of Papers to be laid before the Select Committee in 1890 was, I believe, very carefully considered by my predecessor in office, and all Papers bearing on the subject under discussion which it was thought could be published without prejudice to the interest of the public service were produced. I am not prepared, at this distance of time, to reopen the question.
  MR. KIMBEE: Was this particular despatch laid before the Committee?
  LORD G. HAMILTONwas understood to answer in the affirmative.
  SIR MANCHERJEE BHOWNAG-GREE: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether any alterations have been made recently in the regulations for the admission of students to the Royal Engineering College, Cooper's Hill; and, if so, will he state the particulars regarding the same, and also whether they tend to impose any restrictions on the entrance of students from India to the college, and on their passing through it to the several departments of public service for which they have been hitherto eligible.
  LORD G. HAMILTON: The college was established to supply from this country officers for the Public Works Departments in India. Colleges were also set up in India to supply native officers for the same departments, and at these colleges no Europeans were allowed to be trained. Recently there was a rush of Indian students to the Cooper's Hill College. Finding that in the past few years one native student had on the average got into the Public Works Department through Cooper's Hill, I fixed for the future two as the number to be annually competed for by them. Thus the main object is maintained for which the college was established—namely, the annual provision of European officers for these departments, whilst at the same
  930
  time no restriction is imposed upon the limit of Indian students.

  SEA FISHERIES BILL COMMITTEE.
  SIR J. COLOMB: On behalf of the hon. Member for Suffolk, Lowestoft Division, I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade why the evidence taken by the Select Committee on the Sea Fisheries Bill has not been circulated with the Report, seeing that the evidence was completed nearly a month ago, and was printed and circulated amongst the members of the Committee from day to day.
  The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE (Mr. Ritchie,): I have no doubt that the evidence will be circulated in due course. I have no control over the printing, of course, but I am told there has been no unusual delay. After the evidence is completed it has to be indexed.

  SEA FISHERIES—INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE.
  MR. BUCHANAN: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether the attention of the Government has been directed to the Report of the Select Committee on the Sea Fisheries Bill, whose first recommendation is that no effort should be spared to arrange for international treatment of the subject of sea fisheries, and especially for the regulation of the North Sea area; and whether the Government will initiate negotiations for the assembling of a conference of the North Sea Powers for this, purpose.
  MR. RITCHIE: This matter is receiving consideration, but further knowledge is necessary before negotiations can be opened for a conference.

  SEA FISHERIES—FUTURE LEGISLATION.
  MR. C. H. WILSON: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware of the falling off in the North Sea fisheries, and seeing that in their special Report the Select Committee to whom the Sea Fisheries Bill was referred stated that the subject of the diminution of the fish supply was a pressing one, and that the situation was becoming worse, and that no effort ought to be spared to

  931
  arrange for international treatment of the subject generally, and especially for regulation of the North Sea area; and to provide for the adequate equipment of the Government Departments in charge of the subject, so that they might effectively pursue scientific investigation, and ascertain what has been done either in the way of scientific research or in the matter of practical legislation by other inquirers and by other countries, with the view of determining whether any, and if so what, legislation may be desirable to effect the objects of the Bill, whether he will press upon the Government legislative action, as the diminution in the supply of this article of food is of national importance.— In putting this question the hon. Member said: I am aware the question has to some extent been answered in the reply to the hon. Member for East Aberdeenshire; but I wish particularly to ask the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware of the falling off in the North Sea fisheries; if ho knows that many of the fishing vessels are now being laid up in the ports of Hull and Grimsby, thereby causing great distress, which may possibly increase in the near future; and if he will consider the importance of dealing with this matter by legislation, which has been too long deferred.
  MR. RITCHIE: I am not aware whether the hon. Gentleman's latter allegation is correct, but I do know there has been some falling off in the fishing industry in the North Sea.
  MR. C. H. WILSON: What do the Government propose to do?
  MR. RITCHIE: It is much too early for the Government to state what it proposes to do. There has not been time to consider the evidence and the Report of the Committee.
  MR. C. H. WILSON: How many years has this question been before the Government?

  PARIS EXHIBTION—SUGGESTED EXPERT COMMISSION IN BRITISH COMMERCIAL INTERESTS.
  MR. BAIN BRIDGE: Is the Government aware that the German Government have decided to appoint a Special Commission of nine experts, with a view
  932
  to bringing before the manufacturers of that country improvements in machinery displayed at the Paris Exhibition, and will he consider the desirability of advising the British Government to take a similar course?
  MR. RITCHIE: I have no knowledge of the facts stated in the question.

  DOG QUARANTINE REGULATIONS.
  MR. THOMAS BAYLEY: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether the quarantine regulations issued by the Board of Agriculture compel a dog owner to keep his dog muzzled day and night indoor and outdoor for six months; whether he is aware that, in carrying out these regulations, the police have entered houses at all hours of the day and night; and have instructions been given to the police, and, if so, will he state what the instructions are.
  MR. RITCHIE (for Mr. Long): My right hon. friend asks me to say that the regulations made by the Board of Agriculture ordinarily require that an imported dog shall be kept muzzled when in any public place or in contact with other dogs, but not at any other time. Where, however, a dog has been illegally landed or removed from the proscribed place of detention the dog is required to be muzzled at all times, except whilst being fed, until satisfactory arrangements for its detention have been made. It is the duty of the police to execute and enforce the Orders of the Board of Agriculture, but it rests with the various police authorities to take the necessary steps for this purpose, and the Board have issued no instructions on the subject. The answer to the hon. Member's second question is in the negative.

  WELSHPOOL CATTLE MARKETS.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE-JONES: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture if the restrictions with regard to swine and markets in the district of Weshpool have been withdrawn; if not, whether he can give any information as to the likelihood of an early relaxation of the present restrictions.
  MR. RITCHIE (for MR. LONG): My right hon. friend desires me to say that the restrictions referred to have not yet been withdrawn. The improved position of this district as regards swine fever-leads him to hope that he may be before long in a position to relax them; although it is impossible to intimate beforehand the particular date when the restrictions can be withdrawn.

  KENT COAL FIELDS.
  MR. FLOWER: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he has any information that a seam of steam navigation coal has been found at Dover which on analysis has been pronounced equal to the best Welsh steam coal; if any report thereon has been or will be made by the Government Inspector of Mines; and if it would be possible to secure this coal for the service of the British Fleet.
  The UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE TO THE HOME DEPARTMENT (MR. Jesse Collings,): I have been asked by my right hon. friend to answer this question. It is a matter of common knowledge that a company has been seeking coal in the neighbourhood of Dover, and that seams have been found. The Government have no information as to the quality of the coal.

  THE BROWN INSTITUTION—INOCULATIONS WITH RABIES.
  MR. MOSS: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if his attention has been called to a statement by the superintendent of the Brown Institution, that the inoculations with rabies performed in that institution were of no use except for the purpose of compiling statistics; and whether, seeing that those inoculations with rabies inflict suffering on a number of animals, he will; take the necessary steps to prevent their continuance in that institution in future.
  MR. JESSE COLLINGS: The superintendent of the Brown Institution states that the question does not accurately represent any opinions expressed by him. He considers that the inoculations referred to afford the only means of determining the existence of rabies in a suspected animal.

  MAIDSTONE PRISON WARDERS.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the warders, some retired and some still serving in Maidstone prison, who were in the prison service when the control of the prisons was taken over by the Home Office from the county authorities, were guaranteed by agreement that they would, when retiring, receive a pension equal to two-thirds of their salaries; whether this arrangement was kept in the cases of all old service officers who retired up to two years ago, when MR. Bishop was given a pension of £61 10s. for twenty-five years service; was the arrangement departed from one year ago when MR. Searle, who had twenty-six years service, and received only £43 pension; whether he is aware that MR. Broderick, who has served over twenty-four years in the prison service and twenty-one years in the Army, is about retiring, and is only to be allowed £36 10s. 4d.; can he say why these officers should not be paid according to the agreement and on the scale given to the other officers; and will he see that MR. Searle and MR. Broderick and all remaining old officers in Maidstone are pensioned at the higher rate.
  MR. JESSE COLLINGS: There was no agreement such as is suggested in the question. There are considerable legal difficulties affecting these and similar cases, and the whole question is now under the consideration of the Departments concerned.

  HAPTON VALLEY COLLIERY.
  MR. PHILIP STANHOPE: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has received and considered a Report from the district inspector of mines with regard to the testing of tubs at the Hapton Colliery on 21st June.
  MR. JESSE COLLINGS: The hon. Member intends, as I understand, to refer to Hapton Valley Colliery. The inspector mentions in one of his Reports, which has been before the Secretary of State, that the tubs in that colliery were tested on the 21st June. The matter forms part of the larger question into which the Secretary of State has promised to institute an inquiry.

  MONTGOMERYSHIRE WORKHOUSES.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE- JONES: I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether the inquiries into the possibility of the reduction of the number of workhouses in the county of Montgomery have been completed; if not, when does he hope to complete the same.
  THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (MR. Chaplin,): Inquiries have been made upon this subject, but no representations by any of the local authorities, or by the ratepayers interested, have been received by the Local Government Board on the matter.

  VACCINATION EXPENSES.
  LIEUT.-COLONEL PRYCE-JONES: I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board if he will state what have been the total expenses of the guardians of the unions of Machynlleth, Caersws, Forden, and Llanfyllin, respectively, in the county of Montgomery, in respect of public vaccination in each of the three years ending 31st December, 1897, 31st December, 1898, and 31st December, 1899; what have been the amounts of the fees to public vaccinators and vaccination officers; and what have been the expenses of prosecutions under the Vaccination Acts in each of the three years named in the said unions.
  MR. CHAPLIN: I replied to three precisely similar questions relating to other unions only yesterday, and I have nothing to add to the answers I gave then. I will furnish my hon. friend with a copy of that reply, if he desires it.

  VACCINATION STATISTICS.
  Sir WALTER FOSTER: I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he can state the number of certificates of successful primary vaccination received by the vaccination officers during the year 1899, as compared with 1898, and the number of such certificates received for the first six months of this year as compared with the similar period of the years 1898 and 1899.
  MR. CHAPLIN: The number of certificates of successful primary vaccina-
  936
  tion received by vaccination officers during 1899 was 669,349, as compared with 500,314 during 1898, being an increase of 169,035, or 33.8 per cent. I have not received Returns as to the number of such certificates during the first six months of the present year.

  DISSENTING MINISTERS AND THE PARLIAMENTARY FRANCHISE.
  MR. BAINBRIDGE: I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether Her Majesty's Government will consider favourably the question of introducing legislation to enable a Dissenting minister to be placed upon the register on taking up his residence in any locality, thus giving him the privilege already possessed by the clergy of the Established Church.
  MR. CHAPLIN: I understand the question of the hon. Member to relate to Parliamentary registration; but this is not a matter coming within the province of the Local Government Board.

  CATERHAM AND LEAVESDEN ASYLUMS.
  SIR MANCHERJEE BHOWNAG-GREE: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if lie is aware that the managers of the Metropolitan Asylums Board have recently reduced the normal accommodation for patients at Caterham and Leavesden Asylums; that in consequence of this reduction, and owing to the Metropolitan Asylums Board having otherwise failed to make adequate provision for the reception of imbeciles, many such cases in Bethnal Green have been detained in the workhouse there; and that such cases include a number of boys and girls to whose interests detention in the workhouse is injurious; and whether, under these circumstances, he proposes to take any steps to remedy this state of things.
  MR. CHAPLIN: Perhaps my hon. friend will allow me to answer this question. The reply to the first paragraph is in the affirmative. I am informed that there are six children in the Bethnal Green workhouse who should be removed to an imbecile asylum if there were vacancies for them. The asylum managers are alive to the necessity of further provision being made for imbeciles, and pending

  937
  the acquisition of the Sutton schools they are making temporary provision for imbecile children.

  CIVIL SERVICE—TEMPORARY COPYTSTS.
  MR. SKEWES-COX: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether, in addition to the old class of writers, the ordinary temporary copyists who were registered and employed by the Civil Service Commissioners between September, 1870, and August, 1871, although they had not belonged to the old class of writers mentioned by the Secretary on the 5th of April last, are allowed on appointment to permanent positions to reckon all their temporary service towards pensions under the Treasury Minute of the 1st June, 1882.
  MR. HANBURY: There were no "copyists" employed before the Order in Council of 19th August, 1871. There were certain writers registered for general service between 4th June, 1870, and 19th August, 1871, and such of them who fulfilled the conditions of Treasury Minute of June, 1882, would count all their writer service for pension; otherwise they would only count half of it.

  PILLAR AND WALL LETTER BOXES IN THE CITY.
  MR. COHEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, when it is expected that the undivided pillar and wall boxes in the E.C. District will be divided so as to avoid the necessity for letters from these boxes being carried first to St. Martin's-le-Grand and then to Mount Pleasant, and the delay resulting from such transmission.
  MR. HANBURY: Divided street letter boxes are being provided in the Eastern Central District as rapidly as the contractors, who have had the order for a considerable time, can supply them. It is hoped that the supply will be completed by the middle of October. Meanwhile collections from the undivided boxes are being dealt with specially in order to prevent delay as far as possible.

  BANK HOLIDAY DUTY IN THE POST OEFICE.
  MR. STEADMAN: I beg to ask the Secretary to
  938
  the Treasury, as representing the Post-master General, whether the members of the old first class of countermen and telegraphists, who are entitled under the Tweedmouth scheme to payment for work performed on bank holidays, are in future to be compelled to accept a corresponding number of hours off during the winter months; and whether such work should not be paid for in accordance with the decision of the Departmental Committee, as is at present the custom.
  MR. HANBURY: The arrangement referred to by the hon. Member forms part of a scheme by which the main part of the annual holiday of the whole staff would be taken between 1st March and 31st October, instead of being spread over the whole year as now; but it is made on condition that this generally beneficial scheme shall only take effect with the practically unanimous consent of the staff affected.

  GAERWEN TELEGRAPH FACILITIES.
  MR. ELLIS GRIFFITH: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether the Anglesey Standing Joint Committee and the Anglesey County Council have called his attention to the lack of telegraph facilities in Gaerwen, Anglesey; and whether, seeing that the London and North Western Railway station, which is a considerable distance from the village of Gaerwen, is the only place within the district from which telegrams can be sent, and taking into account the interests of the public and the difficulty of communicating with the police in the Gaerwen district, he will take steps to place telegraph facilities within reach of the inhabitants of Gaerwen without requiring any financial security.
  MR. HANBURY: The Postmaster General is unable to trace any application from the local authorities referred to, but his attention was drawn by the hon. Member himself a month or two ago to the need of a telegraph office at Gaerwen, and on the 19th ult. the terms on which such an office could be opened were stated. The estimated telegraph business is too small to justify the opening of the office without guarantee. The railway station, where telegrams are received for despatch, is slightly under a mile from

  939
  the village, the station. There is no delivery from the station.

  TRAMORE PIER.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he is yet in a position to say if the Lords of the Treasury will make the necessary grant for the erection of a pier at Tramore for the landing of fish; and, if so, what amount the Treasury will grant, and when the work will commence.
  MR. HANBURY: I have not yet received a Report upon the application in question.

  KIRKCALDY AND SINCLAIRTOWN STATIONS— SHUNTING ARRANGEMENTS.
  MR. DALZIEL: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the danger to the travelling public resulting from the absence of proper shunting accommodation at Kirkcaldy and Sinclairtown stations, and the accidents which have already resulted therefrom, he will take immediate steps to compel the North British Railway Company to provide increased accommodation.
  MR RITCHIE: The Board of Trade have no powers of compulsion, but they have communicated with the company several times on this subject. As recently as 20th July they addressed a letter to the general manager and received a reply intimating that the matter was still under consideration. The company shall be pressed to arrive at some conclusion.

  BUTE PROCURATOR FISCAL.
  MR. CALDWELL: I beg to ask the Lord Advocate whether the procurator fiscal for the county of Bute received his appointment on the condition that he would devote his whole time to the duties of his office, and that he would not directly or indirectly engage in private practice as a law agent; whether he is aware that the procurator fiscal has appointed two deputes, who, besides being depute procurator fiscal, carry on the business of law agents within the procurator fiscal's office, and that one of these deputes, who is not a qualified law agent, appeared for the procurator
  940
  fiscal in the public interest at the Bute County Licensing Court, whilst the other depute appeared on behalf of an applicant for a licence in Arran, the procurator fiscal himself being absent for weeks from the county as adjutant of a Volunteer corps for which he received payment; and whether this is in accordance with the terms of procurator fiscal's appointment.
  The LORD ADVOCATE (MR. A. GRAHAM MURRAY,): The procurator fiscal for the county of Bute is restricted from private practice, but may hold public offices with the approval of the sheriff. He has two deputes. They, as is invariably the case with deputes, are not restricted. In the licensing case referred to in the question I am informed that neither of the deputes appeared in the Justice of Peace Court as depute sheriff's procurator fiscal. Neither depute holds a commission in this court. It is the case that the procurator fiscal is adjutant of a Volunteer corps with the approval of the sheriff. I am informed that it is not the case that he has been absent from the county for weeks or any one week in that capacity.

  ROYAL COLLEGE OF SCIENCE, DUBLIN.
  MR. FIELD: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the Board of Works have not provided the necessary temporary additional accommodation in certain departments of the Royal College of Science, Dublin, and that the department of physics is inconvenienced by the want of accommodation, although there is plenty of space available; and whether it is intended to carry out the recommendation to put up a shed to provide room for apparatus and other requisites.
  THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (MR. G. W. BALFOUR,): The subject of providing temporary additional accommodation for the physical laboratory of the Royal College of Science is under the consideration of the Board of Works and the Department of Agriculture. There is no foundation for the suggestion that the Board of Works have failed to provide additional temporary accommodation in other departments of the institution; no

  941
  proposal to this effect has been made to the Board.

  LAND CASES IN KERRY.
  MR. FLAVIN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that MR. Warden, of Sneem, county Kerry, has served a writ on a tenant named Patrick Sullivan, Kealariddig, for £54 3s. 2d., and that the amount of the writ is calculated on the old rent of £18 per year, including old arrears, although the judicial rent is only £14 per year; whether he is aware that Patrick Sullivan was proceeded against a short time since before the county court judge of Kerry, by whom an order was made that Patrick Sullivan should pay the amount of the process by instalments; and whether, seeing that Patrick Sullivan has since punctually complied with the order of the Court by payment of the instalments, ho will state what stops the Government will take to prevent MR. Warden from executing under the writ for the recovery of money which is already being paid by order of the county court judge by instalments.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: The facts are as stated in the first paragraph, but the judicial rent was only fixed this year. I have no information as to the second paragraph, and, as regards the third paragraph, the Government have no power to take any action such as suggested. I may, however, inform the hon. Member that the amount of the writ has been paid in full.

  BELFAST WATER COMMISSION.
  MR. SAMUEL YOUNG: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to the recent awards made by MR. Ryan, arbitrator under the Commissioners for Public Works in Ireland, in respect of the lands taken from the farmers by the Belfast Water Commissioners, near Carrickfergus, and to the difference between the amount of his awards and the awards by the juries on traverse at the county of Antrim assizes at Belfast; whether he is aware that in the case of a farmer called Legg the arbitrator awarded £20 only, and on traverse the jury at the assizes increased his award to £167, with £15
  942
  for costs; and, having regard to the dissatisfaction caused among the farmers by the awards of this arbitrator, whether he will consider the desirability of having the appointment of this arbitrator reconsidered and a man of larger experience appointed in his place.
  MR. HANBURY: The Commissioners of Public Works are not responsible for the awards of the arbitrator, but only for his appointment. It is an essential feature of his post that he should occupy an independent position. The Board have no power under the circumstances to revoke the appointment.

  BALLYGAWLEY POST OEEICE.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he will explain why it has-been decided to discontinue the post office at Ballygawley, which has been established for fifteen years, and is as much required for the public convenience now as hitherto; and seeing that the present postmaster, MR. Bernard Kelly, who took up the office in succession to his mother, and has held it for ten years, when he got the appointment made at the request of the postal authorities structural alterations in the premises at a cost of £25, the Postmaster General, if the office is to be closed, will consider the question of refunding this amount to MR. Kelly.
  MR. HANBURY: There are two post offices at places named Baltygawley in Ireland; but in neither case is Kelly the name of the sub-postmaster. The Postmaster General is not aware of any proposal for abolishing either of these offices. If the hon. Member will communicate to the Postmaster General the full particulars on which the question is based, inquiry shall be made on the subject.

  PARCELS POSTMEN'S GRIEVANCES.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether the Postmaster General will reconsider the question of relieving the, postmen in Bray, Kingstown, and Howth of the loads of parcels which they are; now obliged to carry, by providing handcarts or other vehicles for their conveyance and delivery
  MR. HANBURY: As stated in the reply given to the hon. Member on the 2nd instant, care is always taken to provide against any postmen being overloaded; and he may rest assured that when it becomes necessary to provide handcarts at the places he mentions they will be supplied.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I will show the right hon. Gentleman a picture of these overloaded postmen.

  MARLBOROUGH STREET, DUBLIN, TRAINING COLLEGE—SPRINGTOWN EVENING SCHOOL.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Commissioners of National Education (Ireland) received a memorandum from the teachers at present at the course of hand and eye training in Marlborough Street, requesting an increase in the personal allowance of 3s. per day given them while in Dublin attending the lectures; and, if so, what action have the Board taken on the matter; have the Board acknowledged the receipt of that memorandum, or communicated their decision on it to those teachers; and can he state whether the teachers who attended a course of lectures in 1883 to prepare them for the office of organiser received 7s. 6d. as personal allowance per diem, and have the Commissioners refused to grant even 3s. per day to the majority of Dublin teachers attending the course; and, seeing that those teachers have sacrificed their annual holidays, and in many cases have provided substitutes in their schools at their own expense, to forward the new scheme of the Board without any prospect of personal gain, whether he will recommend that proper allowance is made in all cases.
  I beg also to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the Springtown Evening School, county Longford, Roll No. 8470, has been recognised by the Commissioners of National Education for the six months ending 30th April, 1900, and that the emoluments of the teacher, as set forth by National Board's circular, were to consist of salary, results fees, and customs and excise grant; and whether, seeing that, although the inspector examined and reported favourably on
  944
  above named evening school, the teacher has only received salary as yet at the rate of £1 per month, any further sum will be paid him in lieu of abolished results fees and the customs grant; and, if so, when will the payments be made.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: These questions were only placed on the Paper this morning, and there has not been sufficient time to obtain reports upon them to-day from Dublin. The desired information j has been called for, and will be privately communicated to the hon. Member when received.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: Will it be possible to give an answer to-morrow?
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: I cannot say.

  MITCHELSTOWN UNION MAGISTRACY.
  MR. WILLIAM ABRAHAM: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if his attention has been called to a resolution adopted unanimously by the guardians of Mitchelstown Union on the 2nd instant, respecting the public inconvenience caused by the want of magistrates in the petty sessions district, and to the fact that only one justice resides in the town, and he is disqualified to adjudicate in certain cases; and whether he will cause inquiry to be made with a view to remedying the inconvenience complained of.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: I have seen the resolution referred to. There are four justices, I understand, already resident in or near Michelstown, and I am not aware that any inconvenience has been caused to the public, as alleged in the question. The Lieutenant of the county will consider the names of any suitable gentleman who may be recommended to him for appointment to the Commission of the Peace in the district.

  RAILWAY EXTENSION TO BELMULLET.
  MR. CRILLY: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if ho has received a resolution adopted by the Belmullet Rural District Council, on 21st July, in which a resolution previously

  945
  passed by the Mayo County Council was unanimously endorsed, calling on the Government to construct a line of railway to Belmullet for the purpose of developing the industries and resources of the localities through which the proposed railway would pass; if he knows from personal acquaintance with the districts around Belmullet that such a railway would be of advantage to the commercial and industrial needs of the people of that union, as well as to the people of the neighbouring unions; and if, seeing the want of adequate means of transit in the unions in question, he can hold out any hope that the Government will proceed in the direction indicated by the resolutions of the Belmullet Rural District Council and the Mayo County Council.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: The resolution referred to has been received, but there is no money available for the purpose, and I am not in a position to hold out any hopes on the subject. I may remind the hon. Member that the question of railway communication to Belmullet was carefully considered some years ago, and that the Government, while unable to approve of the application of funds for the construction of a railway, have established steamship communication between Belmullet and Sligo.

  THE GRAND CANAL COMPANY.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he has seen a letter of MR. Kirkland, manager of the Grand Canal Company, in which he states that, although his company pays over £2,000 a year in tolls to the Government through the Irish Board of Works, they refuse to reduce the tolls or afford facilities for carrying on their trade with Limerick: that in the year 1898, the towing-path on the Government Canal between Killaloe and Limerick was so flooded that the Grand Canal Company's traffic was stopped, and that their boat cargoes had to be sent by rail from Killaloe to Limerick; also, that the crane at Banagher recently broke down, killing a man; and also that the Grand Canal Company have been charged tolls on as much as five tons per boat more cargo than they got freight for themselves; and whether he will inquire into the truth of these complaints, and
  946
  see that such a reduction of tolls is made and such facilities of trading is afforded where the Government have control (notably under the Board of Works) as will enable the Grand Canal Company's trading competition to be maintained in the public interest.
  MR. HANBURY: This question only appeared on the Notice Paper to-day, and I have been unable to obtain any information with regard to it.

  SNEEM PIER.
  MR. FLAVIN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state how long it is since MR. Wardan, of Sneem, county Kerry, signified his intention of erecting the store at Sneem Pier; what steps have been taken by MR. Warden to carry out his intentions; and, if nothing has been done, will the Government make a representation to MR. Warden to allow others who are prepared to do so to erect this store for the protection of traders' goods.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: I am not aware that MR. Warden stated it was his intention to erect a store at Sneem Pier, but in July, 1899, he informed the Congested Districts Board that it was the intention of the owners to build a store; at their convenience. No representations have since been received from MR. Warden, but the Board will communicate with him in the matter.

  THE PARLIAMENTARY REGISTER.
  MR. M'KENNA: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he will introduce a Bill to render operative at the earliest possible date the register of electors which in the ordinary course will be completed in the month of October, and come into operation on the 1st January next.
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I think the hon. Gentleman is very sanguine if he thinks that on the day of the Committee stage of the Appropriation Bill we could introduce a Registration Bill.

  SUGAR BOUNTIES.
  *MR. CHARLES M'ARTHUR: I beg to ask the First

  947
  Lord of the Treasury whether, in view of the continued effect of the Continental bounty system upon the British sugar refining industry, as evidenced by the closing of two more important refineries at Liverpool during the past year, Her Majesty's Government intend to take any decisive measures for the relief of that industry from a system which is calculated to result in its extinction.
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: Before I can give any answer about the decisive measures of which my hon. friend speaks in his question, I ought to have some clear idea of what those measures are.
  *MR. CHARLES M ARTHUR: I should like to ask whether the Government will consider the advisability of entering into negotiations with bounty-giving States with a view to prohibiting the use of bounty-fed sugar under a penal clause.
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I have hopes that all the chief bounty-giving countries—France, Germany, Russia, and Austria—will abandon the bounties; but I would not like to pledge myself to that.

COPYRIGHT BILL [Lords] AND COPYRIGHT (ARTISTIC) BILL [Lords].
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the Lords to request that their Lordships will be pleased to communicate to this House a Copy of the Report from the Select Committee appointed by their Lordships on the Copyright Bill [Lords], and the Copyright (Artistic) Bill [Lords], with the Proceedings of the Committee, Minutes of Evidence, etc.— (MR. Attorney General.)

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
That they have agreed to— Supplemental War Loan Bill.
Amendment to Amendments to— Tithe Rent-charge (Ireland) Bill.
Amendments to—
Colonial Stock Bill [Lords].
Manchester Corporation Tramways Bill [Lords], without amendment.

WAR OFFICE CONTRACTS.
That they request that this House will be pleased to communicate to their Lordships a Copy of the Report from the Select Committee appointed by this House in the present Session of Parliament on War Office Contracts, together with the Proceedings of the Committee and Minutes of Evidence.
Printed Copy to be communicated accordingly.

SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE.
Resolved, "That this House do meet To-morrow at Ten of the clock."—(MR. Balfour.)

COLONIAL STOCK BILL [Lords].
As amended, considered.
New clause—
"In the application of this Act to Scotland the words 'Trusts (Scotland) Amendment Act, 1884,' shall be substituted for the words 'Trustee Act, 1893,' where those words first occur in Section 2; and the restrictions mentioned at the end of the said section shall apply."—(The Lord Advocate.)
—brought up, and read the first time.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be read a second time."
MR. CALDWELLsaid be pointed out when the Bill was in Committee that it would not apply to Scotland. The Lord Advocate had now introduced a new clause to the effect that it should apply to Scotland. There were some obvious advantages in that. It was quite true that the Court of Session had power to approve of Colonial investments, and in all probability that court would include those sanctioned by the Treasury. But it was necessary at present that application should be made to the Court of Session in every individual case. The effect of making this measure applicable to Scotland would be that a special application to the Court of Session would not be necessary in every case in respect of these Colonial investments. The Chancellor of the Exchequer made a statement the other day from which it appeared that he intended that there should be some procedure whereby stockholders should have the advantage of the jurisdiction of the English courts in certain eventualities.

949
Scotch law was different from English law, and he suggested that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should make the conditions of the procedure cover the jurisdiction of the Scotch courts in matters where Scotch stockholders were concerned. At the same time, he had no objection whatever to the new clause.
Question put, and agreed to.
Clause read a second time, and added.
An Amendment made.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read the third time."
MR. CALDWELLsaid he wished to say a few words on the Bill, because it marked a new departure in the legislation of this country. Hitherto Parliament had passed Acts of Parliament authorising trustees to invest certain moneys in Colonial stocks in so far as the trustees were not limited by the trust deed, but in all cases the Acts had defined the conditions. Those conditions were such as that authorising investments in debenture stock where for ten years immediately preceding a dividend of not less than 3 per cent, had been paid on the ordinary stock; but in every case the conditions, whatever they might be, were set forth in the Act of Parliament. This Bill, however, authorised the investment of trust money in certain Colonial stocks which had observed certain conditions. Those conditions were not laid down in the Bill, but they were conditions which the Treasury, in some way not defined, might prescribe. They might be prescribed without any Parliamentary supervision or control, it not even being necessary to lay the conditions before Parliament. The Treasury was also empowered to alter the conditions from time to time. There were several inconvenient practical results of this new legislation. The Imperial Treasury and the self-governing colonies would be brought into direct contact with respect to the most delicate of all questions—financial questions. Their interests would be somewhat divergent. On the one side the Imperial Treasury would be anxious to protect the safety of the investor, and on the other hand the colonists would be anxious to borrow money as cheaply as
950
they could to keep up the value of their existing stock, and in order to put new stocks in the market on as favourable terms as they possibly could. Thus there might be a danger of friction arising between the mother country and the colonies owing to this new relationship that was established between them. But the Bill went much further. By the Bill the Treasury assumed a new responsibility. At present the Treasury had nothing whatever to do with what trustees might invest in, but under the Bill the Treasury assumed an undoubted responsibility in selecting particular Colonial stocks which trustees might invest in. Then the Treasury fixed the conditions which a colony was to observe as regards new stock, and the Treasury might alter these conditions from time to time in the interest either of the investor or of the colony. As regarded investments so sanctioned by the Treasury, it would be difficult for the Treasury or the nation as a whole to avoid a certain responsibility if any complication should arise between the holders of such stock and the colony, as the Bill conferred on the Treasury power to make conditions, and these conditions were not set forth in the Bill. They were, of course, on the Third Reading quite entitled to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what conditions he proposed to make. The right hon. Gentleman certainly mentioned some on the-Second Reading, and possibly he had reconsidered these conditions and would be able to give to the House more authoritatively what the final decision was as to these investments outside the United Kingdom. Two conditions would be required. One was that a certain fund should be settled in this country, and certain parties should be responsible in this country, so that the jurisdiction of the courts would be available in the event of any question arising between the holder of the stock and the colony. The other condition which would have to be made was that the colony should not tax that particular stock in such a way as to alter its value. It was obvious that in this instance the colonies had taken advantage of having sent troops to South Africa with the view of securing favourable terms for themselves in regard to these financial questions. The colonies had everything to gain by this Bill. They naturally would have a larger supply of

951
capital, and eventually there must be cheaper money in the colonies. But what might be the result in this country of such powers for investment in the colonies? Money in this country obviously was likely to become somewhat dearer. That would be an advantage no doubt to the investing public at home, but certainly not an advantage to the borrowing public who required money for the purposes of industries at home. It might, indeed, be doubted how far a too ready flow of money was an advantage even to a colony. In passing this Bill the House was undoubtedly conferring very considerable advantages on the colonies. They were getting practically all the advantages belonging to the mother country, while, on the other hand, they did not bear any of the burdens or responsibilities which attended even their own colony as part of the Empire. Take, for instance, the case of Canada, which this Bill was calculated specially to benefit. Canada contributed nothing whatever for the Navy, although if Canada were an independent nation she would require a Navy of her own. Canada contributed nothing for the British Army, although if an independent nation she would require to protect her frontier against the United States. Canada was receiving the benefit of our naval and military expenditure while practically contributing nothing to the Imperial revenue. This, of course, increased the risk of friction between this country and the United States. He thought the time had come when we were quite entitled to raise the question whether the colonies were to reap all the advantages, while we were not to receive anything in return. It was very much to be regretted that a Bill of this importance should be passed through the House at this late period of the session. The House ought to have had an opportunity of discussing it at an earlier period.
*SIR ALBERT ROLLITthanked the Chancellor of the Exchequer for having enlarged the discretion of trustees as to the investments in which money under their control might be safely and securely deposited. He could not agree with the hon. Member for Mid Lanark that the benefits were all in favour of the colonies. Let them admit that there was a concession to colonial
952
opinion, he thought most wisely on Imperial grounds, but on the other hand our country was benefited by the larger-range of investments, and by the very safe security given owing to the industrial development in many of our colonies. The right hon. Gentleman had given powers to trustees which would be exercised with discretion under rules and regulations which would be framed. He had thus added a new outlet for British capital. He admitted that this was a new departure, but it was a wise one. Such changes were not only desirable in respect of the colonies, but also in a very largo degree at home. The principle on which this Bill was based was one he should like the right hon. Gentleman to consider in reference to investments in our own country with the view of enlarging the sphere in one or two ways. He passed to another point which interested himself officially, as Chancellor of the Exchequer—namely, investments authorised to be made in respect of savings-bank money so far as surplus deposits were concerned. The right hon. Gentleman had attempted very properly to enlarge his own means of investment this session, and although his Bill had met with opposition in some quarters, he thought that, keeping in view the changes that must take place in 1903, it was a, matter that demanded careful consideration before any step was taken affecting such large and wide interests as those of the depositors in savings banks and the great economic principles on which these institutions were founded. Not only should the right hon. Gentleman seek a larger discretion for himself in dealing with these moneys, but he should extend the powers of trustees of savings banks in respect of investments they might make, especially in the large field of municipal, school board, and other similar local securities. In fact, the whole subject of trustee investments was ripe for review and re-consideration, and he hoped that at no distant date it would be taken up by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that the House would have an opportunity of expressing an opinion upon it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had shown himself ready to listen to the representations which were made to him with respect to the Savings Banks Bill, by referring it and his (Sir Albert's) own Bill to a Select Committee with power to take evidence. He expressed the hope that if the right hon.

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Gentleman proposed to deal with the subject by Bill in future he would again feel at liberty to send it for examination by a Select Committee. But he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer, before any measure was brought in in future, if any measure must be introduced, would either appoint a Royal Commission, which he thought would be the best mode of dealing with so large and important a subject, or introduce the Bill simply with the object of referring it to a Select Committee for consideration.
MR. GIBSON BOWLES: I should not like the suggestion of the hon. Baronet to go forth without an expression of doubt from one who, like himself, is interested in finance. I think it would be a most dangerous thing for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ask for, or the House to grant, enlarged powers of investment in regard to funds of savings banks. Those funds are very large, and they are payable at call. It is very doubtful whether there is anything like an adequate reserve; there certainly is no cash reserve; and if the Chancellor of the Exchequer were enabled to put his savings bank money into second-class securities—I will not say bad securities—it would be a very dangerous increase of the risk which already too much surrounds savings banks. I was very desirous to make this remark, so that the statement of the hon. Baronet should not go forth as though unquestioned by the House. I think there is a certain danger in this Bill also. It practically gives an artificial character to colonial investments, endowing them with a sacredness and a "gilt-edged" character which they did not before possess: it enables trustees to invest in them. The result will be, I am afraid, to encourage the colonies to go on borrowing even more than they have done. I have very grave doubts as to the propriety of the course pursued by a great many of our colonies in the exercise of their borrowing powers. This Bill will undoubtedly encourage them to borrow more, and that, I think, is a very great danger to the colonies, and it is a danger which we undertake to share with them by this Bill. We have entered into partnership with the colonies, become guarantors of their solvency, and to that extent have encouraged them in a course which in many cases is very likely to lead to serious embarrassment in future.
Question put, and agreed to.
Bill read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) BILL.
Lords Amendments considered.
Lords Amendment—
"In page 1, line 18, to leave out 'the twenty-fifth day of0 and insert 'in' "
—agreed to.
Lords Amendment—
"In page 2, line 3, at end, to insert 'Provided that where a person receiving and paying rent in respect of the same holding would not, if the principal Act or this Act had not passed, have been entitled to deduct more-than half the poor rate from the rent paid by him, the reduction or deduction which may be made under the said sub-section (4), either as extended or not, shall be calculated on the-assumption that the occupier was entitled to deduct half the standard amount for poor rate in the standard financial year'"
—read a second time.
Motion made, and Question proposed,. "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
MR. SWIFT MACNEILL. submitted that this Amendment constituted a breach of the privileges of the House of Commons. It was a well understood and established practice that the House of Lords could not alter in the slightest degree any matter dealing with public moneys. This Amendment altered the variation of the poor rate which the tenant was liable to pay, and therefore could not be entertained by the House. It would tax the patience and ability of any man of ordinary intelligence to under-stand the general effect of the proviso in question, encased as it was with limitations and references to sections and subsections in three or four different Acts of Parliament. This much, however, was clear, that a variation of the payment of the poor rate was designed and must be carried out by the Amendment here made, and therefore it came within the strict rule in reference to the Lords dealing with public moneys.
*MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member asks me, without being able to state exactly what the proviso means, to say

955
that it is a breach of privilege. I cannot say that the proviso is a breach of privilege. I have great difficulty, certainly, in understanding what its effect on the rest of the Bill is, but, as far as I can gather, the section does not propose directly to alter the incidence of taxation. What it does propose to do is to deal with the case of a middleman who has to pay rents and receive rents, and with certain difficulties that arise under the principal Act or may arise under Section 3 as to the distribution of the rate in such a case. It may be that some jot or tittle of alteration of the incidence of taxation may be involved, but there is nothing which I can describe as a breach of privilege after such consideration as I have been able to give to the matter. The hon. Member puts it too high in supposing that the House of Lords cannot in any way whatever touch a question of rating. In dealing with Bills relating to local government, in which rating is involved, this House has never considered that the House of Lords cannot make any amendment. I cannot see that there is any breach of privilege involved in the proviso, and therefore I cannot withdraw it from the House.
MR. T. P. O'CONNORsuggested that the Attorney General for Ireland should explain the proviso.
THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (MR. G. W. Balfour,)said the proviso dealt with a very small and unimportant point. It did not affect any question of rating, at any rate directly, but simply referred to the temporary adjustment of deductions as between middlemen and head landlords. The law up to the present had been that the middleman might deduct from the head landlord in proportion to the deduction made by the occupying tenant from the middleman. There appeared to have been a certain number of cases in which the occupying tenant was entitled, under contract, to deduct the entire of the poor rate, while the middleman, under his contract with the head landlord, was limited to a deduction of one-half, and it was in order to preserve the advantage given to the head landlord by such special contracts that this Amendment had been inserted. Such cases, however, were extremely few,
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but as far as the Amendment went it seemed to be correct in principle.
Question put, and agreed to.
Lords Amendment, in page 2, line 23 (leave out Clause 4), read a second time.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
MR. SWIFT MACNEILLconsidered that the elimination of Clause 4 amounted to a breach of privilege, and that it should be restored to the Bill. The Lords were constitutionally wrong in taking away the clause, as a matter of public rating was dealt with. He could not push this so far as to say that it was a breach of privilege so clear that Mr. Speaker would deal with it, but he thought it was a case well within the purview of the House to deal with, because it altered the financial arrangement of the Bill.
*MR. SPEAKER: As I understand it the matter stands thus: There are certain charges called exclusive charges, which, under the Act of 1898, must be provided for by a special rate. That rate should only raise sufficient money exactly to cover the charge. But sometimes it would be covered by a rate, say, of 2⅛d., but, for convenience sake, those who assess the rate raise a rate of 2¼d. When they have done that, there is a surplus, but there is no power to dispose of that surplus, which has to be carried to a suspense account. What this Section 4 does, as I understand, is this. It is not a rating clause at all. It is a clause merely for the convenience of collection, and, for the convenience of collection, it proposes that those who levy the rate of, say, 2⅛d. may levy a legal rate of 2¼d., and they may legally dispose of the surplus to a particular fund. That is the whole object of the section that has been struck out by the House of Lords. It is not a rating clause. Incidentally I agree with the hon. Member that it may make some trivial difference, but I hardly think that constitutes a breach of the privileges of this House. It is a very slight, insignificant and incidental difference that may arise in carrying out what this House thinks is a convenient method of collection, and I

957
cannot see that this Amendment is out of order, on the ground that it is a breach of privilege.
MR. T. P. O'CONNORappealed to the Government after the statement of Mr. Speaker to reinsert the clause in the Bill. The Government did not in the first instance make this proposal until having duly considered it. It was not his business to speak for the Government, but it seemed to him that the suggestion of his hon. friend was quite a reasonable one. Under the circumstances he thought the Government ought to restore the clause.
MR. G. W. BALFOUR: I can hardly agree with the views of the hon. Member who has just sat down upon this question. I agree that the original proposal was eminently reasonable and desirable from the point of view of convenience, but considering the late period of the session which we have reached, I am afraid that if we insist upon this clause being re-inserted there may be a very great danger of losing the Bill altogether. The question to be considered is whether, for the sake of this clause, it is worth while undergoing that serious risk. The clause is in no way connected with the other clauses of the Bill, and the omission of it will not affect the material clauses of the Bill. It will cause a certain amount of inconvenience and will necessitate the establishment of a certain number of suspense accounts in the different areas of taxation in Ireland, but I do not think that that inconvenience is so very serious as to require that we should enter into a conflict with the Lords at this period of the session. Sooner or later we shall have to deal with the matter. I think we may submit to this inconvenience, in the hope that it may be removed another year, rather than run the risk of losing the Bill.
MR. SWIFT MACNEILLsaid the Members of the House of Lords were overwhelmingly in favour of the Bill, and surely the right hon. Gentleman ought to put his foot down and have the courage to put in this section, which was supported in another place by two Cabinet Ministers, one of whom had declared that it was an infringement of the privileges of this House. The right hon. Gentleman was wrong in saying that the Lords were against this clause. One Lord, and one Lord only, objected to the clause, and that noble Lord was the last person in. the world to take the responsibility of wrecking the Bill. He appealed to the First Lord of the Treasury, who had said he never read the papers——
MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I said nothing of the kind.
MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Well, you read them only when they contain something sensational. If the right hon. Gentleman will read the column in The Times, headed "Imperial Parliament," he will find a report of the proceedings of the Lords yesterday with regard to this Bill, and he will sec something, as they say in the agony column, to his advantage.
MR. BIREELLasked why should these suspense accounts be opened all over Ireland because of the factious behaviour of some irresponsible person elsewhere. The right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland had admitted that this change had frustrated the usefulness of the measure, and why should a reasonable proposal be made impossible simply because it was feared that somebody would be kept a few hours longer? Under these circumstances the House would make itself ridiculous if it did not insist upon restoring the clause.
Question put.
The House divided: Ayes, 100; Noes, 59. (Division List No. 290.)

AYES.

Aird, John

Bond, Edward

Colomb, Sir John Charles R.

Arrol, Sir William

Bowles, T. Gibson(King'sLynn)

Curzon, Viscount

Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

Denny, Colonel

Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

Burdett-Coutts, W.

Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart

Baillie, JamesE.B.(Inverness)

Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

Balfour Rt. Hon. A.J. (Manch'r

Cavendish, V. C.W. (Derbysh)

Faber, George Denison

Balfour, Rt. Hn. G.W.(Leeds)

Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edwd.

Banbury, Frederick George

Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.)

Fergusson, Bt. Hn Sir J. (Manc'r

Barnes, Frederic Gorell

Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc.

Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

Bartley, George C. T.

Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol)

Cohen, Benjamin Louis

Firbank, Joseph Thomas

Blundell, Colonel Henry

Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

Fisher, William Hayes

Fison, Frederick William

Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a

Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

Flannery, Sir Fortescue

Lonsdale, John Brownlee

Ritchie, Rt. hon. Chas Thomson

Flower, Ernest

Lowles, John

Royds, Clement Molyneux

Garfit, William

Lowther; Rt Hn. J.W (Cumb'l'nd

Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

Gedge, Sydney

Lucas-Shadwell, William

Sharpe, William Edward T.

Giles, Charles Tyrrell

Macartney, W. G. Ellison

Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.

Gordon, Hon. John Edward

Maclure, Sir John William

Spencer, Ernest

Goschen, Rt. Hn. G.J (St.Geo.'s

M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk

Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

Maple, Sir John Blundell

Stephens, Henry Charles

Goulding, Edward Alfred

Melville, Beresford Valentine

Strauss, Arthur

Greene, Henry D.(Sbrewsb'y)

Milward, Colonel Victor

Thornton, Percy M.

Halsey, Thomas Frederick

Morrison, James A. (Wilts., S.)

Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray

Hamilton, Rt Hon. LordGeorge

Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford

Tritton, Charles Ernest

Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.

Murray, Rt Hn A. Graham (Bute

Welby, Lt.-Cl. A.C.E.(Taunt'n)

Heath, James

Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

Williams, J. Powell (Birm.)

Howard, Joseph

Newdigate, Francis Alexander

Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)

Hozier, Hon. James H. C.

Nicholson, William Graham

Wrightson, Sir Thomas

Hudson, George Bickersteth

Penn, John

Wyndham, George

Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton

Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

Kimber, Henry

Pierpoint, Robert

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

Lafone, Alfred

Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward

Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

Laurie, Lieut.-General

Purvis, Robert

Lawrence, SirEDurning-(Corn

Pym, C. Guy

NOES.

Abraham, William(Cork, N.E.

Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.)

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Ashton, Thomas Gair

Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis

O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal)

Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.

Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley

O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.

Austin, M. (Limerick, W.)

Griffith, Ellis J.

Pickersgill, Edward Hare

Bainbridge, Emerson

Haldane, Richard Burdon

Provand, Andrew Dry burgh

Baker, Sir John

Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-

Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

Jacoby, James Alfred

Robson, William Snowdon

Birrell, Augustine,

Jameson, Major J. Eustace

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Blake, Edward

Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

Stanhope, Hon. Philip J.

Brigg, John

Kitson, Sir James

Steadman, William Charles

Broadhurst, Henry

Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland)

Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

Burt, Thomas

Lloyd-George, David

Ure, Alexander

Caldwell, James

MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn'sC.)

Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

Channing, Francis Allston

M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)

Williams, John Carvell (Notts.)

Crilly, Daniel

M'Kenna, Reginald

Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

M'Leod, John

Woods, Samuel

Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.)

Maddison, Fred.

Yoxall, James Henry

Dalziel, James Henry

Mather, William

Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

Molloy, Bernard Charles

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

Doogan, P. C.

Moulton, John Fletcher

Mr. MacNeill and Mr. T. P. O'Connor.

Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan

O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork)

Question put, and agreed to.

A consequential Amendment made to the Bill.
MR. T. P. O'CONNORasked if the Chief Secretary would promise to take the earliest opportunity of remedying the defect caused in the Bill by the Lords Amendment.
MR. G W. BALFOUR: In all probability we shall introduce a Bill next year to restore the clause which the Lords have thrown out.

TRAMWAYS (IRELAND) ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.
Lords Amendment considered.
Lords Amendment, in page 2, line 11
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(to leave out from "orchard" to in line 12), read a second time.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
MR. PATRICK O'BRIENsaid he knew that it was hopeless after the last division to oppose the Lords Amendment; but, as he feared that this Amendment would interfere with the carrying out of useful tramway projects, he asked the Attorney General for Ireland for some explanation. The Bill was backed by all parties in Ireland. He must say that in the whole history of the House of Lords a more stupid interference had never been attempted by them with any Bill.
*MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member must speak respectfully of the Members of the other House.
MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: Very well; but the fact remained that if this Amendment were insisted upon it was another evidence of the proceedings of this House being controlled by the House of Lords, even when that Chamber was not able to muster a quorum. He did not feel disposed to destroy the Bill, but he wished the Attorney General to tell the House the exact meaning of the words struck out of the Bill.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (MR. ATKINSON,)said that the original Bill of 1860 prevented a tramway company from acquiring compulsorily ornamental timber, gardens and orchards attached to houses built with bricks. The Bill as it left the House repealed that section, and the House of Lords had struck out the words in regard to a plantation, so that it would not be possible for a tramway company to acquire compulsorily any plantation attached to any house of any character.
MR. T. P. O'CONNORhoped that, after the triumphant exposure of the methods pursued in the House of Lords, the right hon. Gentleman would reject this ridiculous Amendment, and restore the Bill to the original state in which it left the House of Commons. His hon. friend was so anxious that the Bill should pass even in its truncated shape that he was not disposed to push things to extremities; but the right hon. Gentleman should really insist on restoring the Bill to its original and rational shape without amendment. The Government came down and asked the House to accept this Amendment on the plea I that they had no power to influence the matter in another place. That was not the general idea with regard to the action of the Government. He did not wish to accuse the Government of any omission of duty, but when Irish Bills of this importance were brought in they ought to take the necessary means to prevent them being mutilated by the fractious conduct of the other House.
MR. SWIFT MACNEILLdeplored the fact that such a healthy measure as the Government had produced, and which they had themselves drafted, should be checked in its action by the vote of a single Lord. He appealed to the First
962
Lord of the Treasury to do something to remove that cheek.
MR. G. W. BALEOUR, on behalf of the Government, joined lion. Members opposite in regretting the Amendments made by the House of Lords, but he thought it was better, having regard to all the circumstances of he case, to give way, because if they did not they might lose the whole Bill. The hon. Member for Kilkenny would exercise a very wise discretion in not pressing the matter to a division.

CONSOLIDATED FUND (APPROPRIATION) BILL.
Considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)
[MR. J. W. Lowther (Cumberland, Penrith) in the Chair.]
Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.
Clause 3:—
MR. GIBSON BOWLESsaid lie desired to call the attention of the House to the end of the last paragraph of this clause. He did not know why it was necessary to insert it. It seemed to him that Clause 2 of the Public Accounts and Charges Act gave all the necessary power. It might possibly be that the paragraph was a survival of the times before the Public Accounts and Charges Act was passed, and if that were so he would commend it to the attention of those who drafted the Bill, who might study the matter during the recess. The point he wished to make was that this paragraph brought for the first time under the purview of the House the appropriations-in-aid. It was quite true that the estimated amount of the appropriations had been before the House, but that was another matter. By a considered ruling the Chairman had ruled that the appropriations-in-aid could not be attacked in Committee. He did not himself intend to move any Amendment, but there was now nothing to prevent any hon. Member moving an Amendment if he chose. His object in rising was to call attention to the very large increase in the appropriations-in-aid. In 1896–97, excluding the ordnance factories, which ought not to be excluded, the appropriations-in-aid effected by this clause amounted to £5,700,000; in 1897-98, £5,900,000; in 1898-99, £6,700,000; and

963
in 1899–1900, £6,965,600, an increase j of a million and a quarter in four years for appropriations-in-aid, which were entirely withdrawn from the purview of the House. The large increase in these appropriations-in-aid was a matter seriously deserving the attention of the right hon. Gentleman the Financial Secretary to the Treasury and the House. He hoped next year instead of an increase the amount would be largely diminished.
THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (MR. HANBURY,)said the right hon. Gentleman was perfectly well aware that it had been the consistent policy of the Public Accounts Committee for the last ten or twelve years to recommend that wherever it was possible to alter the payments from Exchequer receipts into appropriations-in-aid that should be done. The hon. Gentleman had plenty of opportunity to convince the Public Accounts Committee upon that technical subject. No doubt these appropriations-in-aid had largely increased during the last few years, but that had been due to the recommendation of the Committee having been followed. The result was that wherever the receipts were small and variable in amount they were made direct. It was not so much a matter for the Treasury as for the Committee of Public Accounts.
MR. GIBSON BOWLESsaid he only wished to emphasise the fact that these appropriations-in-aid were withdrawn from the control of the Committee and were largely increasing, and he respectfully submitted that this was a matter the Committee ought to consider.
Clause 3 and the remaining clauses were agreed to.
Bill reported, without amendment; to be read the third time To-morrow.

POST OFFICE MAIL CONTRACT—SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICA.
MR. HANBURYsaid he thought he ought to give some explanation with regard to this matter. The only variations from the existing contract were on three points. The House was aware that the services between this country and the east and west coasts of South America were carried on by alternate services —by the Royal Mail Steamship Company from Southampton and the Steam Navigation Company from Liverpool. The only alteration so far as the places to
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be visited were concerned was that these steamers would call once a month at the Falkland Islands, and there would be a return service from the Falkland Islands to Liverpool; and on the west coast of America there would be a new service from Panama to places in Mexico. An important alteration had been introduced into the system of payment. We had hitherto paid by weight, but in future under this ten years contract we should pay a lump sum. He thought that was decidedly advantageous, because there was no doubt whatever that the traffic along these coasts would grow considerably during the next ten years, and whatever the growth might be we should only pay in the future £30,000 a year, £2,500 of the £32,500 being paid by the Falkland Islands. The payment by weight came to £25,000, so that even upon the present service these important services would only amount to £5,000 more.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the contract dated the 1st day of June, 1900, entered into with the Pacific Steam Navigation Company for the conveyance of mails between Liverpool and South and Central America and the Falkland Islands be approved."—(MR. Hanbury.)
MR. CALDWELLdid not propose to go into the merits. He rose to protest against this contract being brought forward upon the last day of the session. He pointed out that the contract was entered into on June 1st, and under those circumstances he thought it ought to have been brought forward earlier.
MR. HANBURYexplained that that date was put on in order that there might be no hiatus between the old contract and this. This contract was only signed on the 1st of August.
MR. CALDWELLsaid it was impossible to consider a contract of this nature at this time. He hoped in future these contracts would be brought in at a much earlier stage of the session. He could not allow this to pass without a protest.
In pursuance of the Order of the House of the 16th day of July last, MR. Speaker adjourned the House without Question put.
Adjourned accordingly at ten minutes before Six of the clock