HC Deb 06 August 1900 vol 87 cc811-25

Lords Amendments considered.

Lords Amendment— In page 1, line 12, after 'tenant' insert 'Provided always, that in estimating the value of any such improvement, there shall not be taken into account, as part of the improvement made by the tenant, what is justly due to the inherent capabilities of the soil' —read a second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

MR. HALDANE

thought there would be a very general opinion that the Government ought to stick to their guns. When the Bill was last before the House the Government were assailed with immense vigour by a small but compact body of hon. Gentlemen who generally directed their attacks on theological points, but who on that occasion betook themselves to metaphysics. On all sides there was a protest against the repetition in the Government Bill of words which, it became clear during the debate, had no intelligible meaning; and the Minister for Agriculture in a very clear and definite way expressed the view of the Government that that clause or proviso was not one which ought to remain in the Bill. The question, it was pointed out, was not of substance; it was not a case of introducing any new principle into the Bill, but of removing words which were calculated to puzzle even acute minds. The Government took the opportunity of removing these words from the existing law; but now the Lords, thanks to the exertions of the vigorous party opposite, had reinserted them. But that did not seem to him to be any reason why the Government should run away from the very sensible attitude taken up by the Minister for Agriculture, and go back on what they had said to the House a week or two ago. He hoped the House would disagree with the Lords Amendment.

Sir ROBERT FINLAY

said his hon. and learned friend was perfectly accurate in saying that the removal of this proviso was not intended to make any change in the law and would not make any such change. On the other hand, it was stated with considerable force that to remove that proviso gave rise to a feeling that it was intended to alter the law. The former of those considerations prevailed with this House; the latter prevailed in another place. It was now for the House to determine whether, for the sake of removing this proviso which would have no effect in altering the law, it was prepared to lose the Bill, which it was admitted on all hands contained some provisions of value. Under these circumstances, and as the Government were anxious to see the Bill become law, he hoped the House would agree with the Lords Amendment.

*MR. CHAINING

said it was a great pity that the Government had decided to take the course they had done. He believed it would create a good deal of dissatisfaction in the country. The omission of the proviso was pressed upon the President of the Board of Agriculture by an influential deputation, and it was with general assent that it had been omitted. The omission had also been supported by the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Agriculture, and the President of the Local Government Board on the Commission on Agriculture. It was perfectly true that in point of law, perhaps, it did not alter the law or make any substantial change to the detriment of the tenant, but there had been a very strong feeling in the minds of the tenants that the presence of these words might give rise to injustice in certain cases. When that impression had been created it seemed injudicious to reintroduce them.

MR. ELLIS GRIFFITH (Anglesey)

said that the House by a large majority had decided against these words, and he thought the small party in this House in favour of them were not justified in using their influence in another place to have the words replaced in the Bill. More than that, there was an element of threat in the expression of the Attorney General that they must accept this Amendment or lose the Bill. He protested against that attitude of the Attorney General, more especially because this Amendment might have come down from the Lords many days ago instead of on practically the last day of the session. He thought that, both in substance and because of the method by which it had been introduced, Amendment ought to be rejected.

Question put.

Lords Amendment— In page 4, line 22, to leave out 'twenty-five, twenty-six, and twenty-seven,' and insert 'twenty-three, twenty-four, and twenty-five' read a second time.

The House divided:—Ayes, 94; Noes, 54. (Division List No. 284.)

AYES.
Arnold, Alfred Fisher, William Hayes Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)
Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis Flannery, Sir Fortescue Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Flower, Ernest Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry
Balcarres, Lord Foster, Colonel (Lancaster) Murray, Col. W. (Bath)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(Manch'r) Gordon, Hon. John Edward Newdigate, Francis Alex.
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon Percy, Earl
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Goschen, Rt. Hn G J (St George's Phillpotts, Captain Arthur
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol Halsey, Thomas Frederick Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edw.
Blundell, Colonel Henry Han bury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Purvis, Robert
Bowles, T. Gibson(King's Lynn) Heath, James Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.
Brassey, Albert Houston, R. P. Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Howard, Joseph Robertson, Herbert (Hackney
Burdett-Coutts, W. Hudson, George Bickersteth Royds, Clement Molyneux
Batcher, John George Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.) Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Kimber, Henry Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) Lafone, Alfred Sharpe, William Edward T.
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) Laurie, Lieut.-General Smith, James P. (Lanarks.)
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon J.(Birm.) Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Stanley, Edw. J. (Somerset)
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M.
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Thornton, Percy M.
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Lonsdale, John Brownlee Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. M.
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lowles, John Tritton, Charles Ernest
Colomb, Sir John Charles R. Lowther, Rt. Hon. James(Kent) Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. H (Sheffld
Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge Lowther, Rt. Hn J W (Cumb'l'nd Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E. (Tauntn
Curzon, Viscount Lucas-Shadwell, William Williams, J. Powell (Birm.
Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chath'm Macartney, W. G. Ellison Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.)
Denny, Colonel Maclure, Sir John William Wyndham, George
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)
Faber, George Denison Malcolm, Ian TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Maple, Sir John Blundell Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Field, Admiral (Easbourne) Maxwell, Rt. Hon. Sir H. E.
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Morrison, J as. A. (Wilts, S.)
NOES.
Abraham, William(Cork, N. E.) Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham)
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herb. Henry Hazell, Walter Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Hogan, James Francis Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Blake, Edward Jacoby, James Alfred Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur Jones, David B. (Swansea) Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Brigg, John Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire)
Broadhurst, Henry Lawson, Sir Wilfrid(Cumberl'd Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Burns, John Lloyd-George, David Stanhope, Hon. Philip J.
Burt, Thomas MacDonnell, Dr. M. A (Qn's Co. Steadman, William Charles
Caldwell, James MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Cameron, Robert (Durham) M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Tanner, Charles Kearns
Cawley, Frederick M'Ewan, William Thomas, David Alfd. (Merthyr)
Crilly, Daniel M'Leod, John Ure, Alexander
Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) Maddison, Fred. Wallace, Robert
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) Walton, John L. (Leeds, S.)
Doogan, P. C. O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Edwards, Owen Morgan O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W. Mr. Haldane and Mr. Channing.
Griffith, Ellis J. O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

Lords Amendments as far as the Amendment in page 4, line 22, agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

*MR. CHANNING

rose on a point of order to draw attention to the fact that this Amendment was consequential upon two others which appeared lower down on the Paper. He wished to ask whether the passing of the Amendment would preclude any discussion upon the subsequent Amendments, and whether it would be possible in event of its so doing to postpone it until those Amendments which related to the schedule were disposed of.

MR. SPEAKER

I do not quite follow the hon. Member.

*MR. CHANNING

said there were Amendments upon the Paper lower down which, if agreed to, made this Amendment necessary. If it were now put from the Chair, would it not prevent the reinsertion of the items in Part 2 of the schedule which the Lords had struck out?

MR. SPEAKER

Does the hon. Gentleman suggest that if these numbers, 25, 26, and 27, were struck out it would be impossible to go back to alter something in Nos. 18 and 19?

*MR. CHANNING

I confess I do not quite understand the way in which you put it.

MR. SPEAKER

I understand the present Amendment is an amendment to Nos. 25, 26, and 27—marling of land, application to land of purchased artificial or other purchased manure, etc. Is all that to be struck out?

*MR. CHANNING

Oh, no, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER

Then I confess I do not follow the hon. Member.

MR. ASQUITH

said on the point of order raised by the hon. Member for East Northamptonshire he might be permitted to explain the matter as it appeared to him. The Amendment was really consequential upon the alterations made in the Bill by the House of Lords in the schedule. If the Amendment were passed before the schedule were dealt with, it might apply to numbers which the House of Lords and this House did not intend that it should apply to.

MR. SPEAKER

In that case it might be convenient that it should be postponed.

The consideration of the Lords Amendment was postponed.

The next Amendment, page 5, line 9, agreed to.

Lords Amendment, in page 6, line 8 (to leave out "exceeding one acre"), read a second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

*MR. CHANNING

said that the leaving out of those words would have the result of still compelling the farmer to obtain the consent of his landlord to plant osiers, whatever the area. Compensation would only be paid subject to the consent of the landlord being obtained. The small concessions made by the Bill appeared to him to be whittled away by this Amendment of the Lords, and he hoped the Government would resist it, having regard to the fact that the provision as originally drawn had been supported by a large majority of the House.

Sir ROBERT EINLAY

hoped that the House would agree with the Lords Amendment. He was informed by those who had more knowledge of this subject than he had that this was not a matter of very great importance. There were two considerations which governed this question. First, wherever an improvement was undertaken in reasonable circumstances there could be no ground to suppose that the landlord would refuse his consent. As the effect of converting an acre of land into a garden was to improve the land, he thought that most landlords, acting reasonably, would give their consent if the tenant desired to carry out an improvement of the kind. There might, of course, be a percentage of cases in which the consent would be unreasonably refused; but should the House, for the sake of dealing with a comparatively small percentage of cases, imperil the passage of the Bill, to which all parties attached some importance?

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 96; Noes, 56. (Division List No. 285.)

AYES.
Arnold, Alfred Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Morrison, James A. (Wilts.,S.)
Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) Morton, Arthur H. A.(Deptford
Atkinson, lit. Hon. John Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Murray, Rt. Hn A. Graham(Bute
Balcarres, Lord Fisher, William Hayes Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Balfour, Rt Hon. A. J. (Manch'r) Flannery, Sir Fortescue Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds Foster, Colonel (Lancaster) Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Gordon, Hon. John Edward Percy, Earl
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H.(Bristol Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon Phillpotts, Captain Arthur
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Goschen, Rt. Hn G J(St George's Pierpoint, Robert
Blundell, Colonel Henry Halsey, Thomas Frederick Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Bowles, T. Gibson(King's Lynn) Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Purvis, Robert
Brassey, Albert Heath, James Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Houston, R. P. Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Burdett-Coutts, W. Howard, Joseph Robertson, Herbert (Hackney
Butcher, John George Hudson, George Bickersteth Royds, Clement Molyneux
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.) Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) Kimber, Henry Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) Lafone, Alfred Sharpe, William Edward T.
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Laurie, Lieut.-General Smith, James Parker(Lanarks.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Stanley, Hn. Arthur(Ormskirk
Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Clare, Octavius Leigh Lonsdale, John Browmlee Thornton, Percy M.
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Lowe, Francis William Tomlinson, Wm, Edw. Murray
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lowles, John Tritton, Charles Ernest
Colomb, Sir John Charles R. Lowther, Rt. Hon James (Kent) Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. H.(Sheffld
Cox, Irwin Edward Bain bridge Lowther, Rt. Hn J W(Cumb'land Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E(Tauntn
Curzon, Viscount Lucas-Shadwell, William Williams, Jos. Powell-(Birm.
Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham Macartney, W. G. Ellison Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)
Denny, Colonel Maclure, Sir John William Wyndham, George
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Malcolm, Ian Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Faber, George Denison Maple, Sir John Blundell
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H. Hazell, Walter Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Jacoby, James Alfred Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Blake, Edward Jones, David Brynmor (Swans'a Sinclair, Capt John (Forfarshire
Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'l'nd Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Brigg, John Lloyd-George, David Stanhope, Hon. Philip J.
Broadhurst, Henry MacDonnell, Dr. M A (Queen's C Steadman, William Charles
Burns, John MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Burt, Thomas M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Tanner, Charles Kearns
Caldwell, James M'Ewan, William Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Cameron, Robert (Durham) M'Leod, John Ure, Alexander
Cawley, Frederick Maddison, Fred. Wallace, Robert
Crilly, Daniel Mather, William Walton, John Lawson(Leeds, S.
Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) Molloy, Bernard Charles Whiteley, George (Stockport)
Dalziel, James Henry Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) Wilson, Henry J.(York, W. R.)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbrough
Doogan, P. C. O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal)
Edwards, Owen Morgan O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Mr. Channing and Mr. Ellis Griffith.
Haldane, Richard Burdon Palmer, Sir Charles M. (Durham

Lords Amendment, in page 6, line 10 (leave out "exceeding one acre"), read a second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

MR. BRYNMOR JONES (Swansea District)

said that with regard to the small holders of land in Wales the question whether they were to be able to make gardens after simply giving notice instead of obtaining the consent of the landlord was one of the utmost importance. He did not think the Attorney General grasped the importance of this matter. It did not affect those whose holdings were large, or where agricultural operations were carried on, but it was a matter of the greatest importance to people occupying small holdings in the mountainous parts of the country. The right lion. Gentleman had said that if it was to the benefit of the holding no landlord would withhold his consent. Such a statement showed a want of practical acquaintance with the way in which these small holdings were carried on. On small holdings in mountainous districts it often happened that a small piece of land from its soil and aspect was well adapted for growing produce for which the tenant from local circumstances could find a market, and such cultivation would be an advantage to himself and the holding. It was a simple matter, but would become impossible if the landlord's assent with conditions were required. He had in mind a large estate in Wales divided into 771 holdings, some as small as five acres, and remote from the estate office. A long correspondence and formal preliminaries would be ridiculous in relation to a garden plot.

SIR EOBEET FINLAY

could not conceive that a landlord would impose unreasonable conditions, having regard to the character of the holding, or that, except in very exceptional circumstances, any hardship to the tenant would arise from having to obtain the owners' assent.

Captain SINCLAIE (Forfarshire)

asked why these considerations were not regarded when the Bill was framed. The Bill contained this provision when it was originally introduced. It was founded on the recommendation of the Central and other Chambers of Agriculture, and the Government deliberately introduced it after some discussion, and the pros and cons must have been considered before it was introduced. Although the Government had supported it, and resisted the Amendments of hon. Members on the Ministerial side of the House, yet it was now proposed to accept the Lords Amendment. Why did not the Government in this matter stand to their guns, and hold to an Amendment which was of great importance to those concerned? It was one of the very small improvements upon preceding legislation, and it was greatly to be regretted that the Government did not show a greater disregard to the landlord interest in these matters. There was no justification for the disgraceful surrender of which they had been guilty.

Colonel LOCKWOOD (Essex, Epping)

I much regret the Lords Amend- ments made in this Bill. I believe this Amendment will not, in the main, cause many hardships among tenants. It is mainly a sentimental grievance. I regret the action of the House of Lords, but though dissenting from the Amendments made by that House, I will vote for the Government. I quite foresee that if we were to beat the Government in this matter, which we are not likely to do, the Bill would be lost.

*MR. CHANNING

The reply of the Attorney General, so far as I understood it, was that the landlords have so good a way of attending to their own interest that they are perfectly certain to grant permission for the laying out of a garden. But I must protest against this Amendment as really almost an insane assertion of caste domination in this matter. [Laughter.] Let anyone who laughs at this just go down to the Vale of Evesham and see for himself what enormous contributions have been made to the wealth of the owners of land by the energy and outlay of the market gardeners planting gardens at their own risk. It seems to me that the doctrine embodied in the Amendment is one of the most extraordinary economic follies I have ever seen.

MR. ELLIS GRIFFITH

We are told that the matter is not to be discussed on the merits. We are told that we must agree with the Lords Amendments or we will not get the Bill at all. I do not think that is a right position for the House of Commons to be put in. It is not against reasonable landlords that, this Bill is directed. It is against unreasonable landlords. If all landlords were reasonable we should not require a Bill of this kind directed against them. This House represents landlords quite enough. The House of Lords is a House of landlords pure and simple. I think we have a right to protest against the way the House of Commons and the Government have been overruled in the matter.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

May I say a few words in defence of Her Majesty's Government. Her Majesty's Government are showing that they are accessible to reason and capable of repentance. I think, further, that the Attorney General has proved that he never appears to greater advantage than when he is answering his own speeches. This Bill has multiplied the rights of action and the causes of quarrel between tenant and landlord too much. This Amendment will remove one right of action and cause of quarrel. It is a mistake to multiply by statute the conditions of disagreement. It is a far better way to leave tenant and landlord to themselves so far as you possibly can. The hon. Member opposite says this is only for the wicked landlords. That is the argument that is always used. I believe there are few landlords so wicked as to prevent a tenant from making such an improvement as this, which would be

a permanent improvement to his own land. The assumption of hon. Members is that all wicked landlords would prevent this improvement. I support every word of this Amendment, not on metaphysical grounds, but on the ground of keeping alive friendship between landlord and tenant, and the system of give and take. The more you leave them to themselves, and the less you put them in the chains of the words of the statute, the better prospect you have of a satisfactory feeling subsisting between them.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 95; Noes., 57. (Division List No. 286.)

AYES.
Arnold, Alfred Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford
Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Fisher, William Hayes Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Balcarres, Lord Foster, Colonel (Lancaster) Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J.(Manch'r Gordon, Hon. John Edward Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Balfour, Rt. Hon. G. W. (Leeds) Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. Percy, Earl
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Goschen, Rt. Hn G J (St George's Phillpotts, Captain Arthur
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol Halsey, Thomas Frederick Pierpoint, Robert
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Han bury, Rt. Hon. Robert W. Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Blundell, Colonel Henry Heath, James Purvis, Robert
Bowles, T. G. (King's Lynn) Houston, R. P. Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.
Brassey, Albert Howard, Joseph Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Charles T.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Hudson, George Bickersteth Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Burdett-Coutts, W. Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.) Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Butcher, John George Kimber, Henry Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Laurie, Lieut.-General Sharpe, William Edward T.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Smith, James P. (Lanarks.)
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Stanley, Hn. Arthur(Ormskirk
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn- (Swans. Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Stephens, Henry Charles
Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) Lonsdale, John Brownlee Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Clare, Octavius Leigh Lowe, Francis William Thornton, Percy M.
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Lowles, John Tomlinson, William Edw. M.
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lowther, Rt. Hn. James (Kent) Tritton, Charles Ernest
Colomb, Sir John Charles R. Lowther, Rt Hn J W (Cumb'land Vincent, Col. Sir C. E H (Sheffi'd)
Cox, Irwin Edward B. Lucas-Shadwell, William Welby, Lt-Col. A.C.E. (Tauntn
Curzon, Viscount Macartney, W. G. Ellison Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm
Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) Maclure, Sir John William Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.)
Denny, Colonel M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Wyndham, George
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Malcolm, Ian
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Maple, Sir John Blundell TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Faber, Gearge Denison Max well, Rt. Hn. Sir Herbert E. Sir William Walrond and. Mr. Anstruther.
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. Morrison, James A. (Wilts, S.)
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H. Dalziel, James Henry M'Arthur, William(Cornwall)
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles M'Ewan, William
Blake, Edward Doogan, P. C. M'Leod, John
Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur Edwards, Owen Morgan Maddison, Fred.
Brigg, John Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Mather, William
Broadhurst, Henry Griffith, Ellis J. Molloy, Bernard Charles
Burns, John Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport),
Burt, Thomas Hazell, Walter O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Caldwell, James Jacoby, James Alfred O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal)
Cameron, Robert (Durham) Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.
Cawley, Frederick Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'land) O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Charming, Francis Allston Lloyd-George, David Palmer, Sir Charles M.(Durham,
Crilly, Daniel MacDonnell, Dr. M. A (Q'n.s Co Pickersgill, Edward. Hare
Provand, Andrew Dryburgh Tanner, Charles Kearns Wilson, Jos. H (Middlesbrough
Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)
Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) Ure, Alexander TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Soames, Arthur Wellesley Wallace, Robert Mr. Brynmor Jones and Captain Sinclair.
Stanhope, Hon. Philip J. Walton, John Lawson (Leeds, S.
Steadman, William Charles Whiteley, George (Stockport)
Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.

Lords Amendment, in page 6, line 17 (leave out "exceeding one acre"), read a second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

MR. SOAMES (Norfolk, S.)

reminded the House that this was one of the recommendations of the Central Chamber of Agriculture. He could not, for the life of him, see that the landlord's property or rights were likely to be interfered with to any great degree by this provision. He trusted that the Government would see their way to go to the House of Lords once more with the proposal.

AYES.
Arnold, Alfred Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) Morrison, Jas. A. (Wilts., S.)
Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Fisher, William Hayes Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)
Balcarres, Lord Flannery, Sir Fortescue Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) Foster, Colonel (Lancaster) Murray, Col. W. (Bath)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. G. W.(Leeds) Giles, Charles Tyrrell Newdigate, Francis Alex.
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Gordon, Hon. John Edward Percy, Earl
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir MH.(Bristol) Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon Phillpotts, Captain Arthur
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Goschen, Rt Hon G J (StGeorge's Pierpoint, Robert
Blundell, Colonel Henry Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edw.
Bowles, T. Gibson (King'sLynn) Halsey, Thomas Frederick Purvis, Robert
Brassey, Albert Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Heath, James Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T.
Burdett-Coutts, W. Houston, R. F. Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Butcher, John George Howard, Joseph Royds, Clement Molyneux
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Hudson, George Bickersteth Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Cavendish, V.C.W (Derbyshire Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.) Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) Kimber, Henry Sharpe, William Edward T.
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Laurie, Lieut.-General Smith, James P. (Lanarks.)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk)
Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r Leigh-Bennett, Henry Carrie Stanley, Edw. J. (Somerset)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a Stephens, Henry Charles
Clare, Octavius Leigh Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Coben, Benjamin Louis Lonsdale, John Brownlee' Thornton, Percy M.
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lowe, Francis William Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. M.
Colomb, Sir John Charles R. Lowles, John Tritton, Charles Ernest
Cox, Irwin Edw. Bainbridge Lowther, Rt. Hon James(Kent) Vincent, Col. Sir C.E.H (Sheffld
Curzon, Viscount Lucas-Shadwell, William Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E. (Tauntn
Davies, Sir Horatio D.(Chath'ra Macartney, W. G. Ellison Williams, J. Powell (Birm.)
Denny, Colonel Maclure, Sir John William Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Wyndham, George
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Malcolm, Ian TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Faber, George Denison Maple, Sir John Blundell Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstrnther.
Fellowes, Hon. AilwynEdward Maxwell, Rt. Hon. Sir H. E.
NOES.
Abraham, William(CorkN. E.) Blake, Edward Broadhurst, Henry
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H. Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur Burns, John
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Brigg, John Burt, Thomas
Captain SINCLAIR

said the only inference they could draw was that there must be considerable sympathy on the part of the Government and their supporters with the action of the House of Lords in this matter. This was a matter of considerable importance to a number of small individuals. He could testify from his own knowledge that it was an interesting question in the agricultural constituencies in Scotland.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 99 58. (Division List No. 287.)

Caldwell, James Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Cameron, Robert (Durham) Lloyd-George, David Robson, William Snowdon
Cawley, Frederick MacDonnell, Dr. M A (Queen'sC Stanhope, Hon Philip J.
Charnning, Francis Allston MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Steadman, William Charles
Crilly, Daniel M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) M'Ewan, William Tanner, Charles Kearns
Dalziel, James Henry M'Leod, John Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Maddison, Fred. Ure, Alexander
Doogan, P. C. Mather, William Wallace, Robert
Edwards, Owen Morgan Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) Walton, John Lawson(Leeds, S.
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Whiteley, George (Stockport)
Griffith, Ellis J. O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.
Haldane, Richard Burdon O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W. Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Hazell, Walter Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Jacoby, James Alfred Pickersgill, Edward Hare Mr. Soames and Captain Sinclair.
Jones, David B. (Swansea) Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

Subsequent Amendments agreed to.

Postponed Amendment agreed to.