MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. (Hansard, 1 June 1899)

§ MR. DILLON

In reply to a question I put to him just now, the Chief Secretary stated that the depositions forwarded to him in connection with an inquest held in the city of Belfast on Friday last have only just reached him, and he apparently gave that as a reason for his not having made up his mind as to the action which 88 he ought to take in regard to the meetings on the Custom House steps at Belfast and the general condition of the city. That is a very strange attitude for a responsible Minister of the Crown to take up, and it becomes still more strange when he states he does not intend to draft any extra police force into the city to ensure that public liberty is safeguarded. What are the facts? On Sunday week, the 21st May, in pursuance of an evil custom which has been in force for years, meetings were being held on the Custom House steps and addressed by rival preachers; the result was that a riot took place, and in the rush of the crowd a man named James Davies was knocked down, sustaining injuries which soon after culminated in his death in hospital. The inquest was held on the 25th May, and the evidence adduced showed that on the occasion three meetings were in progress—one conducted by Mr. Galbraith, a temperance preacher, on behalf of a society called the Christian Endeavourors, and a second by a Mr. Ballantine who claimed to represent the orthodox Protestants. At the inquest evidence was given which he would like to draw attention to. Mr. Galbraith in his evidence was asked as to the language used by Mr. Ballantine. Let me read exactly what occurred, as reported. Mr. Galbraith was asked:— Coming to last Sunday, did he make use of any observation to which you took exception?— Oh, yes; he made several observations. Give us some of them?—The principal one was the remark that in the nunnery on the Crumlin Road births occurred which were not registered, and deaths also. You heard him say that?—Yes I heard him distinctly say that. What did you infer from that?—I would infer that the nuns had given birth to children which they murdered, and also that the coroner hadn't been doing his duty when those deaths were left unrecorded. Your Honour, that is the inference I took. I am speaking on my oath. Don't yon know as a matter of law that both births and deaths must be registered?— I can't say, sir; I'm not very well up tin law. You addressed your meeting on the subject—what was the nature of your remarks, can you say?—'A nation's curse.' Was your discourse directed upon Mr. Ballantine's remarks? What did you say?—I said that, as a citizen and a Protestant, I protested that such statements should be made at such a time; that the remark was entirely unchristian, and calculated to embitter the feelings between Protestants and Roman Catholics. That was what I said, so far as my memory serves me. 89 Did you incite the crowd to remove him from the steps and prevent him speaking?—No; I said to them to do nothing about the steps that would bring discredit awl disgrace to the city of Belfast. As a result of these remarks made by him did anything happen?—Not just then. He also said that the wall of the convent was knocked down in order to let the priests go in at night. This was the language used in the hearing of the people in a whole row of Catholic houses. Was it not enough to set men's blood on fire? Then the Witness was further examined by the Coroner as follows:— The Coroner: Did you hear him say anything about Christian Endeavourers going to bell?—I held my meeting under the auspices of the C.E. I had a C.E. badge on, and it was the badge that attracted his attention. He said—in fact lie named my name—that Christian Endeavourers were all taking the power out of God's hands. He also asked what was the difference between the Roman Catholics. I may say that I worship in a Methodist church, the pastor of which is a converted Roman Catholic, the Rev. P. L. Donovan. That was the meaning of the remark he made to the crowd. He said all these people were going to hell straight. The Coroner: Did you consider that that was preaching the gospel of peace?—I did not, sir. Having disposed in this manner of the Roman Catholics, he denounced in similar terms the Presbyterians, Methodists, and Christian Endeavourers. I am prepared for scepticism on this point, and I certainly cannot understand any responsible Minister of the Crown tolerating such language. What was the police evidence?—Let me read it— Constable Joseph Deasy, Glengall Street Barracks, said he was on duty at the Custom House steps on Sunday evening last. He saw Galbraith and Ballantine there addressing meetings. Portions of Mr. Ballantine's remarks was that the Methodists and Presbyterians were all going— The Coroner: Then he included the Presbyterians too?—He did. He also said something about the Endeavourers. The Coroner: That was not very courteous to the strangers. Did he consign the Catholics there too?—N o, I didn't hear him. Sergeant Magee: You were a considerable distance from him—on the outskirt of the crowd?—I was. Did Mr. Galbraith take exception to any of these remarks?—He did. Did you hear what he said?—I did. He asked the crowd—" Is there any Protestant—Methodist or any other denomination—going to stand up and listen to that man?" or words to that effect. 90 The result of that was, I believe, that a considerable portion of the audience rushed at Mr. Ballantine?—Yes. You have some experience of the meetings there?—Yes, I have been there for the last six months. What is the conduct of the crowd attending those meetings generally?—Very bad, generally. Have the police been obliged to escort people for their own protection out of the crowd by bringing them to the barracks, putting them on trains, &c.?—Yes, on several occasions. On last Sunday week we had several. Twice T saw people turned out cut and bleeding. Would you say as to the subject of the discourses are they religions or political?—More religious than political. The Coroner: I'm afraid there's not much religion in them. Sergeant Magee: And are they insulting occasionally to different religious denominations?—Yes, from the Lord Mayor down—especially Mr. Ballantine. The Coroner: In your opinion, sergeant, are these meetings on the steps calculated to lead to a breach of the peace?—They are, sir; on sonic occasions we have great trouble in preserving order, especially when Catholics are passing there. But most important of all is the Coroner's summing up. The Coroner (Mr. Finegan) occupies a responsible position. He was for many years Conservative agent for the county Down, and is one of the most respected men in Ireland. I, therefore, attach especial importance to his views. What was it he said? I will read it: Could they conceive anything more calculated to foster and intensify that animosity than the words used by that so-called preacher of the Gospel, words which lie himself admitted he did use, namely, that in the Convent on the Cramlin Road no deaths or births were registered. What was the only meaning of those words but an accusation against the nulls of that convent of immorality, and murder to conceal their immorality'? That was the naked meaning of the words, used without a shadow of foundation, by a man who posed as a Gospel teacher for five-and-twenty years. He could conceive nothing more scandalous than such an accusation made without the slightest, foundation against a community of ladies whom he, from his official position, knew were doing incalculable good in their city. Not content with he, with Christian charity, which he pleasured by Ids own standard, consigned Methodists and Presbyterians to perdition, and included with them even the strangers and visitors who were enjoying their hospitality that week, the members of the Christian Endeavour Convention. He thought the time had arrived when steps should be taken by the high officials of this country to put a stop to those speakers who thus provoked breaches of the peace in 91 their city, and provoked it, too, standing upon the very property of the Government. And this was language used on the property of the Government. The jury found a verdict according to the medical evidence. They had not sufficient evidence to show by whom the death was caused. They were of opinion that the authorities should take more active measures to preserve the peace at the Custom House steps on Sunday. That occurred on 21st May, and one would suppose that the Executive Government of Ireland would have done something in the interval to see that decent order was maintained. They knew what had been going on the previous Sunday, and that the same class of thing had been going on for six months. But what did they do? On the following Sunday—that is, last Sunday— at the same place where this poor man was killed, and within two days after the inquest had been held upon him, another gentleman turned up, a preacher of the Gospel. A friend of mine, whose name I can give if necessary, writes me to the following effect on the 29th May:— Referring to my letter of 27th regarding the conduct at Custom House steps, Belfast, yesterday Trew repeated what Ballantine had said the previous Sunday about the immoral relations between priests and nuns, and said very likely Finegan (the coroner) had himself a latch-key for the back door of the convent. That was the language of a Christian apostle! Then—this is important, because it bears out absolutely all I have said in regard to the Belfast mob— he then referred to the coming demonstration, and said the rebels would he kept to the slums, but the anti-demonstration would make the soldiers and police keep the city of Belfast proper for them, they would march where they chose and show that they were the masters of Belfast. The constabulary sports are to be held next Saturday. He advises them as Protestants not to support them, but on Saturday they would assemble and march to the grounds where the sports are to be held, for what purpose he did not exactly specify. But previous to tins he said he understood amongst other flags over the tents on the ground there would be a green flag, 'and I promise you that flag will come down more quickly than the police ran down the Shankill Road last June.' That was a reference to the occasion when the mob hunted the police down the Shankill. Road, and when three policemen were carried to the hospital after a furious riot. He then proceeded to deliberately incite to murder. Here are his words;—'Now, there 92 are a number of rebel bands coming from Dublin and other places for the rebel demonstration. Some will come on Saturday evening and some on Sunday evening. The train leaves Dublin at 5.20 and arrives at the Great Northern Railway here at 9 o'clock, and I hope you will be there to give them a hot reception.' Is that language which, in a city like Belfast, ought to be used? One of the reasons why I have moved the adjournment of the House is that such language has been allowed. Are these murderous ruffians—for that is the only appropriate word to employ—to be permitted to be in wait at the Great Northern Railway station to attack the Nationalists? Is there any decent pretext why the authorities should riot prevent these things? Surely the Government will send an extra force of police. The town is seething with excitement. The result of not sending extra police would be that more than half the men on ordinary beat duty in the streets would be drawn away, whereas in every portion of the town they would require to be doubled, and in some places trebled. This is an important point, and should be strongly urged. At all these times there occur very bad cases of assault in many parts of the city owing to the want of sufficient police patrols. omitted to state that Trew wound up by a furious tirade upon the police, the result of which was a furious onslaught on the policemen present, and for a length of time there was furious rioting, the mob throwing stones in the most desperate manner at the police, and the police repeatedly charged. Seven or eight men were arrested and brought up before the magistrates next morning, when the police-sergeant gave evidence as to Trew's presence in the mob, and that 800 men pursued two men a great distance amid continuous volleys of stones. Brave Belfast men! One thing I am entitled to ask, and that is, What measures are the Government going to take for the preservation of the peace on Sunday and on Monday next? On the Monday there is to be a great Nationalist demonstration in Belfast. It was announced to take place four weeks ago. As they did last year, the organisers have left the order of route to the discretion of the magistrates of Belfast. They are going to follow the route so laid down, avoiding the Protestant quarters. Last week, under the inspiration of the gentleman whose language I have quoted, a counter demonstration, was organised, and the intention is announced that they will traverse Belfast, not by a route fixed by the Magistrates, but at their own sweet will, so that the "rascally rebels" are 93 to be kept to the slums. More than that, they have chosen a route so that they will cross a main avenue up which, a few minutes before, the Nationalists will be marching. Is it to be tolerated that this Orange mob are to be permitted to march hither and thither in every direction for the purpose of exciting a riot? It is not because I am speaking for the Nationalists of Belfast that I take this step. The Nationalists of Belfast have on many occasions done things of which I disapproved. Once they maintained a riot for weeks against odds. But is that civilisation? Ought not any Government to be ashamed who will not secure the right of the people of Belfast to walk in peace through the streets of their own city? When I remind the house of what occurred last year, it will be admitted that I am justified in the action I have taken to-day. I then went down to Belfast to a Nationalist demonstration. I must acknowledge the most creditable and courageous language used by the hon. Member for South Belfast, who denounced the proceedings of his own friends, and condemned any interference with the Nationalist demonstration. The Nationalists, he said, have as good a right to walk through the streets of Belfast as the Orangemen, and he said he would spend a month in gaol in order to vindidicate their right to march through the streets of Belfast. Well, till last year, no riots had taken place for years. It is no answer to my argument to say, Why don't the Nationalists give up their meetings?' I reply, 'Why don't the Orangemen give up their meetings?' Why should the citizens of this free country give up their rights in deference to the threats of a scoundrel like that whose language I have quoted? They have as good a right to meet as any citizens of this country, so long as they conduct themselves decently and conform to the regulations. It is idle to speak of the Nationalists being responsible. It is the business of the Government not to allow these Orangemen to put down the Nationalist meeting announced three weeks ago, and to maintain the peace, and I have a right to demand that the Government should do so. Well, last year I was informed that if I went to Belfast I would be murdered. Several letters to that effect were sent to me. And other Nationalists were warned that 94 if they went there they would not come out alive. However, I went to Belfast and found that the magistrates had laid down the route of the Catholic procession. But in deference to the threats of the mob the magistrates altered the route of the procession, and acting on my advice the Nationalists consented to the change, and at the last moment they had, consequently, to alter all their arrangements. What was the result? There were more than 10,000 men in the line of procession and an enormous multitude at the sides. The police force was utterly inadequate, but the Protestant mob were afraid to attack the procession for two reasons—first, because the Catholics were more numerous, and, second, because the fighting iron men were at work. When the procession was over the Nationalists went home peaceably, but hours afterwards the iron men joined the Protestant mob, and they attacked the police so furiously that 103 policemen had to be carried to the hospital, where their wounds were dressed. At the time the attack was made on the police, there was not a sign of the Catholic demonstration. The mob of Belfast warned the executive Government that they would not allow any extra police to be brought in, and the unfortunate police force were utterly insufficient to cope with the enormous fighting crowd sweeping through the streets. Order was not restored until the military appeared, and then they cheered the military and shook hands with them. Now, is this going to be repeated on Monday next? Are the police of Belfast to be hammered by these ruffians without any reinforcements, or is the Government going to bring in such an overwhelming force as will teach these people once and for all that they must keep the peace, and behave like civilized human beings, or stand the consequences? They are a very bad mob on both sides, and a Protestant mob, like all disorderly mobs, do very cowardly things, as I have shown from the extract I have read. The worst thing that an executive Government ever did if they wished to keep the peace, was to put into the minds of the Orange mob at Belfast that they were afraid of them. If Mr. Trew and Mr. Ballantine are to be allowed to lay down the law to the magistrates of Belfast and the executive Government, then you may prepare for la very lively time in Belfast.

§ THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. G. W. BALFOUR, Leeds, Central)

The hon. Member for East Mayo has moved the adjournment of the House to call attention to what he calls a matter of public urgency, which I take to be, the language used by a Mr. Ballantine on the Custom House steps, Belfast, on Sunday. But the hon Member did not confine himself to that matter. He has devoted the larger part of his speech to events which happened last year, and events which may possibly happen on Monday next. I will deal very shortly with what I understand to be the pith of the matter to which the hon. Gentleman called attention in moving the adjournment of the House. In reply to a question by the hon. Member I stated that the subject was being considered by me. I have only received the depositions of the Coroner this morning in connection with the loss of life that has taken place in consequence of the disturbance at the Customs House. The hon. Member says he moved the adjournment of the House in order to bring pressure to bear upon the Government with regard to the forthcoming meeting at Belfast. Sir, I do not think that the hon. Member is likely to influence the Government by his speech, nor are we likely to be helped by the interposition of the hon. Member in the character of a supporter of law and order. As to the language used by Mr. Ballantine, I think that even the language of the hon. Member himself is hardly stronger than the Occasion needed, when the hon. Member says that Mr. Ballantine is the representative of the Orthodox Church in Ireland. Sir, I feel quite sure that the number of persons in Belfast who sympathise with the outrageous language used by Mr. Ballantine must be small indeed. But holding that vice as 96 I do, I am not prepared to say now what course it would be wise and proper for the Government to take. I must have time to deal with the matter. I am communicating with the authorities on the other side of St. George's Channel in order to enable the Government to fully consider the matter. I have only had the opportunity of considering the depositions taken by the coroner this morning, after my return from a holiday, and, therefore, I am not now, on a motion for the adjournment, going to give a different answer from what I have given already to a question put by the hon. Member. In connection with the events of last Sunday, six men have been condemned to different periods of imprisonment. The hon. Member has complained with reference to the disturbances and riots of last year—in which he was a leader, if not a prominent member—that the Government have not brought a sufficient force of police into Belfast. I would remind him that a Commission inquired into the riots of 1886, and investigated all the details, and reported that it was not desirable to draft police from the surrounding districts into the city, because doing so would be provocative of more harm than good. The magistrates and the Government have subsequently deemed it advisable to employ both the military and the police for the preservation of the peace, and this they did last year when the two processions took place. But I am happy to say that Mr. Trew has, acting on the advice of my hon. friend the Member for South Belfast, agreed to abandon the counter-demonstration. I can assure the hon. Member for East Mayo that the Government are fully alive to the difficulties of the position, and will take steps to deal with any disturbance that may arise.

AYES.
Allan, William (Gateshead)	Gourley, Sir E. Temperley	Priestley, Briggs (Yorks.)
Allison, Robert Andrew	Hedderwick, Thomas C H.	Redmond, J. E. (Waterford)
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.)	Holland, W. H. (York, W.R.)	Reid, Sir Robert Threshie
Bainbridge, Emerson	Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C.	Roberts, J. H. (Denbighs.)
Baker, Sir. John	Jones, William (Carnarvons.)	Shaw, Charles E. (Stafford)
Barlow, John Emmott	Labouchere, Henry	Steadman, William Charles
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)	Langley, Batty	Stevenson, Francis S.
Billson, Alfred	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb.)	Stuart, James (Shoreditch)
Blake, Edward	Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington.)	Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Broadhurst, Henry	Leng, Sir John	Tennant, Harold John
Caldwell, James	Lough, Thomas	Thomas, A. (Glamorgan, E.)
Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow)	Lyell, Sir Leonard.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Cameron, Robert (Durham)	MacAleese, Daniel	Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds S.)
Carew, James Laurence	M'Ewan, William	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Channing, Francis Allston	M'Ghee, Richard	Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Clark, Dr. G. B (Caithness-sh)	M'Leod, John	Williams, John Carvell (Notts
Colville, John	Maddison, Fred.	Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Crombie, John William	Maden, John Henry	Wilson, John (Govan)
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)	Morgan, J Lloyd Carmarthen	Woodhouse, Sir J.T. (Hddsf'd.)
Duckworth, James	Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport.)	Woods, Samuel
Engledew, Charles John	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Yoxall, James Henry
Esmonde, Sir Thomas	O'Brien, James F. X.(Cork)
Farquharson, Dr. Robert	Oldroyd, Mark	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Mr. Dillon and Mr. James
Goddard, Daniel Ford	Pilkington, Sir G.A.(Lan. SW)	O'Connor.
Gold, Charles	Pirie, Duncan V.

NOES
Ascroft, Robert	Flower, Ernest	Morton, Arthur H. A. Deptford
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Galloway, William Johnson	Murray, Rt Hn A Graham (Bute
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(Manch'r)	Garfit, William	Myers, William Henry
Balfour,Rt HnGerald W.(Leeds	Gibbons, J. Lloyd	Nicol, Donald Ninian
Banbury, Frederick George	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Bartley, George C.T.	Greene, Henry D.(Shrewsbury)	Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay
Barton, Dunbar Plunket	Gretton, John	Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham)
Beach, W W Bramston (Hants.)	Greville, Hon. Ronald	Pease, H. Pike (Darlington)
Beresford, Lord Charles	Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord George	Pilkington, R. (Lanes Newton
Bethel), Commander	Hanbury, Rt. Hon. R. Wm.	Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Bill, Charles	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm.	Priestley, Sir W. Overend(Edin
Blakiston-Houston, John	Hayne, Rt. Hon. C. Seale-	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Heath, James	Purvis, Robert
Boulnois, Edmund	Heaton, John Henniker	Pym, C. Guy
Bowles, T. Gibson(King's Lynn	Helder, Augustus	Rankin, Sir James
Brassey, Albert	Hoare, Edw. B. (Hampstead)	Rasch, Major Frederic Carne
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Hoare, Samuel (Norwich)	Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Brown, Alexander H.	Hornby, Sir William Henry	Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter
Bullard, Sir Harry	Houston, R. P.	Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Campbell, Rt. Hn. JA (Glasgow	Howell, William Tudor	Ryder, John Herbert Dudley
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry	Hozier, Hon. Jas. H. Cecil	Samuel, Harry S. Limehouse)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos.H. A. E.	Jackson, Rt. Hon. W. Lawies	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Coghill, Douglas Harry	Jenkins, Sir John Jones	Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse	Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton	Seton-Karr, Henry
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready	Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex)	Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire)
Courtney, Rt. Hon. Leonard H.	Kenyon, James	Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth)
Cripps, Charles Alfred	Knowles, Lees	Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Cubitt, Hon. Henry	Lafone, Alfred	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Curzon, Vicount	Laurie, Lieut.-General	Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh	Lawrence. Sir E. Durning-(Corn	Tritton, Charles Ernest
Dalrymple, Sir Charles	Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)	Valentia, Viscount
Dorington, Sir John Edward	Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swnsea	Warr, Augustus Frederick
Doughty, George	Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.	Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine	Welby, Lieu.-Col. A. C. E.
Drage, Geoffrey	Long, Col Charles W. (Evesham	Williams Joseph Powell-(Birm
Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V.	Long, Rt. Hn Walter(Liverpool	Willox, Sir John Archibald
Fardell, Sir T. George	Macartney, W. G. Ellison	Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward	Maclure, Sir John William	Wodehouse, Rt Hon E R (Bath
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J.(Manc'r	M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinboro', W	Wyndham, George
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne	Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M.
Fishier, William Hayes	Milwaid, Colonel Victor	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond	Monk, Charles James	Sir William Walrond and
Flannery, Sir Fortescue	Moore, William (Antrim, N.)	Mr. Anstruther.