HC Deb 03 August 1899 vol 75 cc1351-79

19. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £227,335, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for the Expenses of Her Majesty's Embassies and Missions Abroad, and of the Consular Establishments Abroad and other Expenditure chargeable on the Consular Vote."

* SIR CHARLES DILKE

At this time of the evening, with the shadow of the guillotine hanging over us, there is a desire to discuss as many Votes as we can before the closure, and I shall therefore be very brief in the remarks I propose to make. I gave notice of my intention to move two reductions—to reduce the salary of Sir Arthur Hardinge as Consul-General for Zanzibar, and also on another item to reduce the salary of the same gentleman in respect of British East Africa—but for the convenience of the Committee I intend to take the two proposals together, and move a reduction of the entire Vote. In regard to Zanzibar all we have to say really is that the pace at which emancipation is proceeding, there is not, in our opinion, sufficiently rapid for the honour of the country, and also that the emancipation which has been effected has been accompanied by conditions which we think are in some degree disgraceful. But I shall not dwell upon the Zanzibar portion of the case. As is well known, we believe that the great majority of the slaves in Zanzibar, most of whom are brought from what has now become a British possession, are-illegally held in defiance of the proclamations of the Sultan of Zanzibar issued from time to time under our instructions. In respect of British East Africa certain new facts have come to our knowledge since this matter was last mentioned in. the House. Many of us have had an opportunity of meeting the gentleman who is at the head of the Primitive. Methodist Mission, where certain incidents occurred that have previously been brought to the knowledge of the House. The Foreign Office have on this question somewhat reverted to their earlier attitude, and. we have some complaint against the Under Secretary for having taken up, under the suggestion of Sir Arthur Hardinge, a non possums attitude with regard to any further change. At one moment the late Under Secretary very frankly admitted that the Foreign Office had changed their views. When we produced the warrants by which persons have been returned into slavery by British courts the Foreign Office stated that they had been entirely unaware of the practice of British courts in respect to returning fugitive slaves, and the late Under Secretary stated that under instructions which were given by the Government on the opinion of the Attorney-General, the Foreign Office was going to introduce a complete change of system. Now, Sir, after careful discussion with the gentleman to whom I have referred, all of us who have seen him are as convinced of his perfect truthfulness as we are of that of Bishop Tucker, who originally brought this matter to our knowledge, and I am sure Sir Arthur Hardinge shares that view as to the absolute truthfulness and good faith of the gentleman in question. What does he state? He tells us that besides the Kombe case, there have been other instances of the same description. For instance, one of his mission men was sent to prison in June, 1898, on a charge of luring away slaves from their owners, and facts which have been brought to our knowledge with regard to that charge go to show that that is one of those cases where the House of Commons are quite unaware of what is being done in their name by British courts in British East Africa. As regards the case which was previously brought to the knowledge of the House, the Kombe case, the Under Secretary made certain statements which, according to our present information, are quite opposed to the real facts of the case, as we thought they were at the time they were made, on the information then before us. This is a case, as the Committee will remember, of the return into slavery by the action of a British court of a person who had been ten years in freedom. That person was sent back by British authority to an Arab master, who had no means whatever of recovering that slave but for the intervention of the British court. After investigation we found that Mr. Lloyd, who tried the case, was a finance official, and that he had no experience as a magistrate, that he was entirely ignorant of the native tongue and absolutely dependent on his Arab interpreter. I need hardly say that the Government ought to view with the greatest suspicion the action of a British court in British East Africa, where the legal status of slavery has not yet been abolished, when it involves the return into slavery of persons who have been free for over ten years, after a hearing, before such a magistrate as I have described. On March 21st the Under Secretary made a statement with regard to this case in which he said that these slaves made no objection to returning to their master, that they were desirous of doing so in order to get food, and the master brought the matter into court as he wished to get a formal declaration of his legal right to their services in return for subsistence. The Attorney-General, speaking on that occasion, stated that these three persons were willing to return to their master. All I can say is that, after most careful investigation, we believe that this gentleman's, denial that those are the real facts of the case is one which the Committee may accept. That is all I wish to say with regard to the matter, except that further inquiry into the Indian law leads us entirely to maintain our contradiction of the assurance of the Under Secretary that the state of things in British East Africa is as good in respect of the recognition of slavery as it was in India immediately after 1843. The state of things in India then was very similar to that existing in the colony of Lagos, which was defended by the Secretary of State for the Colonies a day or two ago as being virtually equivalent to the total abolition of the legal status of slavery, and we maintain our view that the Under Secretary cannot justify his opinion that the state of things in India in 1843 was less good than that prevailing in British East Africa. I beg to move.

Motion made, and Question proposed— That a sum, not exceeding £277,135, be granted for the said service."—(Sir Charles Dilke.)

* THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. BRODRICK,) Surrey, Guildford

It is only out of respect to the right hon. Gentleman that I rise to reply. The whole subject was discussed on the last occasion for three or four hours, and not a single new fact has been brought out this evening by the right hon. Gentleman. He himself said he would not discuss the question of Zanzibar, and then he said the process of emancipation ought to proceed more quickly. He has not given us any new cases, nor has he produced any new facts, except that the opinion which Sir Arthur Hardinge gave us as the result of his investigations, and which he gave publicly in his official position, was not borne out by a certain individual who has been over here, and whom the right hon. Gentleman has seen. I have seen neither that individual nor any information tendered by him in writing in support of his statements, and at this moment I am not in possession of anything but just the fact that even now these persons who were sent back to their master deny that they made any objection to that return. I have not the least doubt that there is some difference of opinion as to the facts, but on the other hand I am convinced that the despatch of Sir Arthur Hardinge shows that he had taken great pains to inform himself of the actual state of the facts. The statements made were, we believe, accurately reported to the presiding magistrate by the interpreter, and I do not think it is possible to provide that the English judge should always have a knowledge of the native tongue so as to be able to dispense with an interpreter. In a great number of courts all over the world that is not done, and I am quite certain there is no desire to do any injustice in the matter. Every effort was made to give these persons an opportunity of objecting if they desired to do so, or if they had any fear about returning to their master; they did not propose to lodge any objection at that time; it was found two or three months afterwards that one of these individuals had left his master again, and another had taken service elsewhere. I never felt that this was a particularly strong case on which to attack the government of Sir Arthur Hardinge. I only express the desire we have that the fullest consideration should be given in all these cases, and that escaped slaves should not be returned to their masters except in cases in which it is proved that we should otherwise be breaking the pledges which were given at the time the territory was taken over.

MR. SYDNEY GEDGE (Walsall)

I am sorry this matter has been brought to such a very small issue as whether or not these so-called slaves were willing to go back to their master. It seems very strange, if they were willing, that their master should require to go to the court to make them. It is not a question of willingness or unwillingness; the whole question is whether, in any country in which justice is administered in a court in the name of Her Majesty, the judge or magistrate is seriously to consider whether a particular person belongs to himself or to anybody else. I do not suppose for a moment that in such a territory as Zanzibar we can immediately put down slavery, but putting down slavery by force is one thing, and recognising slavery is another. "When we take possession of a country we may leave the laws undisturbed for a time, but it does not follow that our courts ought to enforce those laws. The enforcement ought to be left to the natives themselves. That is a very different thing from lending the aid of our courts and magistrates to enforce the laws of slavery. This has been mentioned over and over again, and I must say it is intolerable that we should have cases arising time after time in which the old saying, that the moment a slave touched British territory he was free, no longer holds good, but that we should have courts of ours putting laws into operation in order that people may be returned to what are called their "owners." I cannot believe in anybody being the owner of somebody else, and I am sure the Members on the Front Bench hold the same view, and I want them to say that this intolerable state of things should not exist a single day longer.

MR. BROADHURST (Leicester)

I think we have some cause of complaint in that the Under Secretary has not taken this matter more seriously. It is not sufficient to ignore a statement simply because it is a repetition of a previous statement. If it was true when first made, and still remains true, it requires an answer. I heard a short time ago, from an undoubted authority, that this law was being administered in Zanzibar in a manner most calculated to prevent it having the effect desired or intended by its authors—that every opposition was placed in the way of poor people in remote parts of the country getting to a magis- trate's court in order to lay bare their case against the slave-owner. These are the allegations, that actually under British government and British authority obstacles are placed in the way of these poor people taking the necessary legal procedure to liberate themselves from their slavery. The right hon. Gentleman ought to say that this is repugnant to British instincts, feeling and sentiment, and that he, as representing the Foreign Office in this House, would take a note of the statement of the right hon. Baronet, and do his best to see that the law is enforced with more energy and with more convenience to the persons seeking this redress than has been the case in the past. The status of slavery ought altogether to be abolished, and the right hon. Gentleman ought to tell us that by the time we reassemble next year much will have been done to meet the views of the people who take a great interest in this subject.

MR. HAVELOCK WILSON (Middlesbrough)

I have another subject to which I wish to call attention on this Vote. I want to refer, not to the slaves in Zanzibar, but to a class of men who are little better than slaves, and who receive very hard treatment from the hands of the present Government, and I want to point out that the Foreign Office is largely responsible for the treatment received. In 1897 I sent a report to the Board of Trade with regard to the position of seamen who are engaged and discharged at the consular shipping offices abroad, and I pointed out that seamen were assaulted in the offices of Her Majesty's consuls, that they were robbed in those offices, and that it was impossible for any seaman to engage in the ports of the United States without the intervention of "crimps" and other low characters, and that the consular officers allowed these "crimps" free access into the consular offices. I stated in that report that I myself had witnessed in New York as many as twenty or twenty-five of these "crimps" in the shipping office where the men were being engaged and discharged. I also stated that a number of shipowners in this country had entered into contracts with "crimps" in New York for the engagement of men, that these "crimps" charged the seamen as much as £3, £4, or £5 as a shipping fee, and that shipowners shared these fees with the "crimps" A number of Members thought my language was very extravagant; they said that the charges I made were very serious indeed, and they were inclined to doubt my assertions. However, in May, 1898, a Report was moved by a Member of this House in regard to the condition of affairs in the consuls' offices abroad, and I find in that Report that Her Majesty's consuls, themselves, in the United States, fully bear out every statement I made. Her Majesty's consul for Philadelphia said that in ports in the United States a system of contracting exists between the shipping agents and the owners in the United Kingdom for the supply of seamen; in which the blood money is even higher than I have mentioned, as much as twenty dollars being deducted from the seamen's advance. The agreements usually terminate at the final port of discharge in the United Kingdom, the United States, or the Continent of Europe, but in most cases the words "United States" are required by the master, or his agent, to be struck out by the consul. So that, should the vessel return to those waters, the shipowner can demand from one to three months' pay from the men for their discharge; that is to say, if a man engages in one of the ports of the United States, and makes a voyage, returning to the United States, he has paid twenty dollars to this "crimp" for the privilege of getting the employment; he cannot get employment unless he pays that fee, so he pays this twenty dollars for a start, makes a voyage of three or four months, and that ship returns to port. The captain wants to get rid of his crew, so he gives them all kinds of work to do, and no money to spend; and when, as a result, the men ask to be discharged, the captain says, "I will discharge you, but you must pay a month's or two months' wages, and in some cases three months' wages."

* THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member must confine himself on this Vote to a criticism of the conduct of Her Majesty's consuls abroad. The general system to which he is referring is not a matter within the discretion of the consuls. Any matter which is within the discretion or power of the consuls, in which he thinks they are acting improperly, he can bring under review.

MR. HAVELOCK WILSON

I contend I am fully entitled to discuss anything which appears in this Report.

* THE CHAIRMAN

I do not think that would be right at all. Upon this Vote the hon. Gentleman is entitled to criticise the action of the consuls. If he considers they have not made a proper Report, he can criticise that, but he cannot criticise the system upon which the consuls happen to report.

MR. HAVELOCK WILSON

Then, Sir, I will stick to the conduct of the consuls. I have maintained more than once that Her Majesty's consuls could put a stop to these proceedings if they took the matter in hand in a proper manner. I have asked that instructions should be issued by the Government to the consuls, that no one, except the seamen and the master, should be allowed in the consuls' offices when the men are being engaged. It is not a proper thing, when the consuls themselves have admitted that this class of men do fasten themselves on the seamen, that they should be tolerated in the offices of the consuls. Surely there must be something radically wrong when the business of Her Majesty's consuls cannot be conducted without—I would not like to say there is collusion between the consuls and these men, but it is a very improper state of things which exists. The Government have been fully aware of this for over two years. It is not a question of to-day. I have repeatedly raised the question in the House. I have put questions to different Ministers, calling their attention to it. My statements have not been denied; they have been confirmed by the consuls themselves, and yet nothing has been done. There is another matter on which I have to complain of the conduct of the consuls. Very often voyages terminate in foreign ports. Under the Merchant Shipping Act, Sec. 186, it is provided that whenever a seaman is discharged in a foreign port, the owner shall provide that man with a passage home, with maintenance, to the port in the United Kingdom at which he was engaged. That section of the Act has been disputed for a long time, but it is established by the decision of a court of law that that obligation is imposed. It is the duty of Her Majesty's consuls, whenever men are discharged in their ports, to see that that section of the Act is complied with. But they do not do so. What is more, I have complained of consuls who deliberately place seamen in such a position, that when they commence an action for the recovery of what they are entitled to under this section, by the action of many of the consuls the men are put out of court. There is a section which says that the consul shall insist upon a certain amount of money, which, in his judgment, is sufficient to defray the expenses, being paid down. Take, for instance, Rotterdam or Antwerp. Many of the consuls, when a captain refuses to pay the men's fares and maintenance to the port in the United Kingdom at which they were engaged, say, "You must deposit 10s."Ten shillings only carries a man to the nearest port in the United Kingdom—say Harwich, and from there a man engaged at Cardiff has to pay his fare to the latter place out of his own pocket. If the seaman desires to sue in a court of law for the balance, all the owners have to do is to prove that Her Majesty's consul made an endorsement on the articles of agreement that 10s. was sufficient, and then the man is put out of court, and has no remedy whatever. I do not want Her Majesty's Government to take up the side of the seamen—theycan take their own part; but I want instructions to be given to every consular-officer abroad that, whenever a seaman is. discharged in his port, he will not make an endorsement on the articles that the captain has complied with the Act, unless the seaman is paid his full passage money to the port at which he was engaged, with maintenance money. We are only asking that no obstruction shall be put on our road in a court of law. Only to-day I was in court in connection with a case in which seamen discharged at Marseilles, claimed passage to Cardiff, but the captain would only pay to London. We are now told that the captain complied with the requirements of the consul, and that the latter has written a letter stating that he asked that the men's fares should be paid to London only, and that the men were perfectly satisfied, and the consul is to be called as a witness against the men. Another section of the Act provides that where the captain or owner fails to pay the passage of the men to the port of engagement, the consul himself can pay, and recover the money as a debt due from the owners. Where is the protection for a British seaman if the consul takes the side of employers as against the men? That seems to me to be a just cause of complaint. I have repeatedly called attention to these matters, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman, the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, will see that the law is carried out. We do not ask for any special privileges. I wrote to the Board of Trade, informing them that it was our intention to place our own agents on the continent, so that wherever a captain refused to pay fares back to the port of engagement, our agents could pay and afterwards recover the amount as a debt. I got a letter from the Board of Trade, which no doubt came from the Foreign Office, stating that they could not see their way to issue any instructions. I hope, however, the Foreign Office will now issue instructions that crimps and robbers be kept off consular premises.

* MR. BRODRICK

The hon. Member has made a speech containing a considerable indictment of the officers in the consular service, but he did not give me the slightest notice that he was bringing forward this question, or any opportunity to study the points he was about to make. The hon. Member made several sweeping charges without supporting them by individual cases of fact. With regard to one point to which the hon. Member alluded, viz., the Consular Office at New York, into which he says crimps find their way and ought to be excluded, only a few days ago, in answer to a question on the subject, I said that the point was under consideration at the present moment. The hon. Member represented in vivid terms the scenes which take place in consular offices, but we are informed that disturbances are of very rare occurrence; and in this matter, as in the other, it would be desirable if the hon. Gentleman were more definite.

MR. HAVELOCK WILSON

I have many cases, but I did not desire to take up the time of the Committee.

* MR. BRODRICK

I do not think the hon. Gentleman can really be under the impression—certainly, we are not under the impression—that there is any desire on the part of our consular officers to deprive any of our seamen of the protection to which they are entitled. The Government have no such desire, and if the hon. Gentleman can produce any cases of that kind, we will take care that they are properly investigated, but I do not think general statements are very helpful to us. The hon. Gentleman takes great interest in these matters; we take an interest in them also; and I may truly say that since I have been at the Foreign Office the hon. Gentleman has not addressed to me one single word of complaint with reference to consular officers.

MR. HAVELOCK WILSON

I sent the complaints to the Board of Trade.

* MR. BRODRICK

If my right hon. friend the President of the Board of Trade were here, I think he would say that in those cases also the hon. Gentleman might have been more definite. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there is the strongest desire on our part to see that our seamen get the best possible advantage from our consular officers. As the hon. Gentleman knows, it is illegal in the United States to advance money on wages, but I have not the least doubt, as the right hon. Gentleman says, that the law is to some extent evaded, and if he will give us particulars we will gladly take the matter up. I can only say that in every report we have received there is manifest the strongest desire on the part of our consular officers to do the very best they can for our seamen.

MR. MADDISON (Sheffield, Brightside)

I think the question raised by the hon. Member for Middlesbrough is one of great importance, and I am quite sure it is through no fault of the right hon. Gentleman himself that he has not been able to give the hon. Member a satisfactory assurance. The right hon. Gentleman complained that no definite details had been given. I quite admit that to a Minister specific instances are of more value than any amount of argument. Well, last year, the hon. Member for Middlesbrough set out at considerable length, and in the minutest detail, charges against the consuls. I take it that this is no charge against the personal conduct of the consuls, but against the bad system. The hon. Member quoted last year, from personal observation, gross cases where the lowest of human kind, crimps, and their attendants, were allowed to go into the British Consular Office at New York. Not only did the hon. Member draw the attention of the House to these complaints last year, but also the year before, and surely we have a right to complain that these grievances have not been redressed in the course of two years. This is not a question concerning seamen only; it is one of national importance. Very useful reports have been issued by certain consuls, which show most conclusively that these crimps ply their baneful trade in the consular offices, where they have actually got a kind of official standing. It is pointed out in these reports that consuls could, if certain steps were taken, have much greater control over the seamen and the crimps than they now have. Mr. Laidlaw, the British Consul at Portland, Oregon, in his Report, says that a comprehensive Consular Convention should be concluded with the United States, giving the same exclusive jurisdiction as is now enjoyed by the French and German Consuls. That would include power to call upon the local authority for necessary assistance. That is a very fertile field of usefulness for the office the right hon. Gentleman represents. Mr. Laidlaw shows clearly the serious danger menacing British seamen, how great the power of the drinking saloon is, and that, in spite of all warning, the seamen listen to what the crimps say. I believe if this exclusive jurisdiction referred to by Mr. Laidlaw were granted it would effectually cure the worst of the evils complained of. I am sure that in the present temper of the United States, which we all rejoice at, a consular convention might be arrived at, and I hope that matter will be taken up in earnest by the right hon. Gentleman during the recess.

* MR. BRODRICK

I am fully aware of the importance of the subject, and I will undertake that in the course of the next few months the points raised shall be fully considered with the view of seeing what possible action can be taken to cure the evils complained of. The point brought forward more especially by Mr. Laidlaw, who is one of our most active and most excellent officers, will be considered, and although the subject is a very complicated one, I think I can promise the hon. Gentleman that he will have no occasion to raise the question next year.

MR. BROADHURST

Two points have been strongly urged by my hon. friend the Member for Middlesbrough. In the first place, he referred to the crimps, contending that they ought not to be allowed on the consular premises while contracts were being made between the masters and the seamen. That is a very small point in itself, but it is very great in its effect upon the interests of the seamen, because it leads the seamen to feel that the crimp has some legal standing in the matter of the contract. The other point is that the consuls should be referred to the section of the Act which makes it imperative on the masters of a ship to pay the fare of a sailor back from the foreign port at which he is discharged to the port at which he was engaged. I think the right hon. Gentleman is entitled to complain, as he has done, that no notice was given that this matter would be revived, but I am sure my hon. friend would be the last person to strike where his opponent is off guard.

MR. LOWLES (Shoreditch, Haggerston)

I should not have intervened in this Debate but for the fact that I have seen some of the evils complained of in New York, and I am bound to say that no language can exaggerate them. But I rose for the purpose of drawing attention to the valuable suggestions made in the very first Report published in the Blue Book by Consul Fraser, who speaks with special authority on the subject. Consul Fraser sums up his report by this recommendation: From a very lengthened experience of the British seaman at American ports, and of the many persons who directly or indirectly make their living out of him, I believe that the first step to be taken, and which will doubtless greatly check desertion in the United States, and at some ports almost entirely eliminate it, is to get rid of the so-called shipping master; and until he has ceased to exist all efforts to stop desertion will, in my opinion, he fruitless. Then he goes on to make this valuable suggestion: I would suggest the establishment, under the supervision of the consul, of a department on similar lines to mercantile marine officers in the United Kingdom. No man should be allowed to be brought to the consulate to be shipped by any person who makes it a business of finding employment for seamen, and he should also be strictly excluded from the office. Advance notes should be issued and paid at the consulate. Should a master desire to have his crew put on board by an employé of the consulate, a charge of not more than 2 dollars for each man would be made for the service. An objection to this cannot well be raised on the ground that it would be an additional burden on the ship, as it is willingly paid at present to persons who perform the same work. Then he goes on to say. A similar department to that to which I have referred was established at the Consulate-General at New York in 1872, under my own supervision, which worked admirably for several years, but, most unfortunately, it had to be discontinued for want of funds.

THE CHAIRMAN

Order, order! The question which the hon. Member is discussing cannot be discussed under this Vote.

MR. LOWLES

All I want to say is that I believe from my own observation there is not sufficient supervision on the part of the Consul-General at New York. I regard the suggestion of Consul Fraser as a most valuable one, and if his proposal were carried out, and if greater supervision were to be exercised, these evils would very soon cease to exist.

MR. ROBSON (South Shields)

I think much of the mischief has arisen from the consuls acting, in perfect good faith, upon a wrong view of their duties under the Merchant Shipping Act, and only allowing the seaman the bare cost of his passage home without maintenance. The courts, while declaring that view to be wrong, have, at the same time, held that they cannot override the discretion of a consul. The consul is in the position of an arbitrator, from whoso decision there is no appeal, and therefore the seaman has no remedy. Accordingly it comes peculiarly within the province of the Foreign Office to instruct the consuls on this point, and then seamen would be relieved of very great injustice and hardship.

CAPTAIN NORTON (Newington, W.)

The matter to which I desire to call attention is the bearing of consular reports on trade. It is well within the knowledge of those connected with trade that we are far behind other countries in this matter, either because the reports furnished by consuls of other countries are superior to ours, or that the Foreign Office does not take sufficient steps to ventilate these reports. We find that in almost every country where there is a prospect of a growing trade, the German, Austrian, and Belgian consuls go in for minuter particulars of every class of trade, and that the various Foreign Offices take special steps to place those reports in the hands of the merchants. They have undoubtedly, by these means, cut us out of many markets where we had hitherto more than held our own. As a case in point, I would draw attention to the trade in Turkey, more especially as regards Asia Minor. I find, from the most excellent report of Acting-Consul Massey, that whereas some years ago our trade in a particular part of Turkey was extremely good, it fell away in consequence of events which took place in that quarter of the world. Now trade is about to revive, and the recovery which took place in 1897 has continued. We find that the exports are now £158,000, and the imports over £200,000. This sum, however, might be easily doubled. Prior to 1890 it was considerably larger than it is now. There is every opening for an increase of trade. But why is it this increase does not take place? Because there is no attempt made on the part of our Government, in conjunction with the consul, to see that proper trade catalogues are furnished, with price lists. The most absurd catalogues are sent out to these countries, furnishing a class of goods which it is altogether outside the power of the inhabitants to buy. It is suggested by the consul to whom I have referred, that a central agency should be established for the collation and distribution of catalogues, and for furnishing practical and useful information for the benefit of those who desire to encourage trade there. At the present time the entire trade is in the hands of a certain number of middlemen, mostly Greeks and Armenians, who are most unscrupulous in their dealing. The English merchant who sends out goods is completely in the hands of these men, who, for a commission of an extra five or six per cent., foist upon the people of this country low-class goods made in Austria and elsewhere. The establishment of a central agency, according to the consul, would not cost more than £2,000, and if the merchants of this country would put their hands in their pockets and pay £5 each, some 400 of them could provide the necessary money. At the present moment the entire trade in cloth is supplied from Austria. A large merchant in these parts declared that he sent an order to England, but it was not entertained. Another said he could not get a particular cloth.

* THE CHAIRMAN

Order, order! I do not see how the hon. and gallant Member connects these matters with the Vote. He is critising the actions of merchants.

CAPTAIN NORTON

I am endeavouring to criticise the action of the Foreign Office, in not taking steps to bring home, by means of consular reports, the condition of our trade, and to distribute these reports amongst the merchants, and I submit that it is in consequence of this attitude that we are losing trade. There is a great opening for a trade of something like £8,000 worth of cloth, as used in one part of Asia Minor. At the present time, however, the whole of this commodity is manufactured in Austria.

* THE CHAIRMAN

Order, order! The hon. Member is really criticising the action of the merchants in not acting upon the consular report.

CAPTAIN NORTON

My contention is that our consular reports fall distinctly behind those of all other great trading countries, as a consequence of which trade in all out-of-the-way places is passing into the hands of Germans and Belgians. I

should therefore be glad if the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs will say what steps are taken in order to prevent our competitors getting the better of us in these places.

MR. LABOUCHERE (Northampton)

Is it not the fact that the consular reports are in many respects not up to the mark? I contend that the consular service should be made a real service, as it is in other countries. At present gentlemen are appointed haphazard without any training.

* MR. BRODRICK

totally denied the impeachment brought against the consuls by the hon. Member.

MR. BAYLEY (Derbyshire, Chesterfield)

expressed the hope that the right hon. Gentleman would seriously consider the question raised by the hon. and gallant Member for West Newington.

* SIR CHARLES DILKE

I propose to ask the Committee to divide, in consequence of the unsatisfactory reply given by the Under Secretary with regard to slavery in Zanzibar and in British East Africa.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 80; Noes, 174. (Division List, No. 340.)

AYES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) Hazell, Walter, Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham)
Asher, Alexander Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) Pearson, Sir Weetman D.
Ashton, Thomas Gair Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. Perks, Robert William
Atherley-Jones, L. Hogan, James Francis Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Horniman, Frederick John Pirie, Duncan V.
Balfour, Rt. Hon. J. B. (Clackm. Jameson, Major J. Eustace Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Joicey, Sir James Rickett, J. Compton
Bllison, Alfred Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) Roberts, J. Bryn (Eifion)
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Kearley, Hudson E. Roberts, John H. (Denbighs).
Burns, John Kilbride, Denis Robson, William Snowdon
Caldwell, James Labouchere, Henry Runciman, Walter
Cameron, Sir C. (Glasgow) Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land Souttar, Robinson
Causton, Richard Knight Lewis, John Herbert Steadman, William Charles
Cawley, Frederick Macaleese, Daniel Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Channing, Francis Allston M'Dermott, Patrick Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Clough, Walter Owen M'Leod, John Ure, Alexander
Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) Maddison, Fred. Wallace, Robert
Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) Maden, John Henry Walton, John L. (Leeds, S.)
Dalziel, James Henry Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Warner, Thos. Courtenay T.
Dillon, John Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthyr Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Donelan, Captain A. Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) Williams, John Carvell (Notts)
Fenwick, Charles Moss, Samuel Wilson. Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Moulton, John Fletcher Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbro')
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Norton, Capt. Cecil William Yoxall, James Henry
Gedge Sydney O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork)
Gourley, Sir E. Temperley O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Charles Dilke and Mr. Broadhurst.
Griffith, Ellis J. O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- Oldroyd, Mark
NOES.
Arid, John Fisher, William Hayes Milward, Colonel Victor
Allsopp, Hon. George FitzWigram, General Sir F. Monk, Charles James
Arnold, Alfred Flannery, Sir Fortescue Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Flower, Ernest Moore, William (Antrim, N.)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Man) Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) Fry, Lewis Morrell, George Herbert
Banbury, Frederick George Galloway, W. Johnson Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Gibbons, J. Lloyd Murray, Rt Hn A. Graham (Bute
Barton, Dunbar Plunket Gibbs, Hon. V (St. Albans) Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin Giles, Charles Tyrrell Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol Gilliat, John Saunders Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Bethell, Commander Goldsworthy, Major-General Nicholson, William Graham
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Gordon, Hon. John Edward Nicol, Donald Ninian
Bigwood, James Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford
Blundell, Colonel Henry Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo. s Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay
Bond, Edward Goulding, Edward Alfred Parkes, Ebenezer
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Pierpoint, Robert
Boulnois, Edmund Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Bousfield, William Robert Green, W. Raymond- (Cambs) Purvis, Robert
Brassey, Albert Greville, Hon. Ronald Rasch, Major Frederic Carne
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Gull, Sir Cameron Richards, Henry Charles
Bullard, Sir Harry Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W. Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.
Butcher, John George Heaton, John Henniker Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. T.
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) Hermon-Hodge, R. Trotter Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Carlile, William Walter Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs Round, James
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Hoare, Edw. Brodie (Hampste'd Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Cecil, Evely'n (Hertford, E.) Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Howard, Joseph Sharpe, William Edward T.
Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. Jackson, Rt. Hon. W. Lawies Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire)
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick Simeon, Sir Barrington
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Jenkins, Sir John Jones Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Charrington, Spencer Jessel, Captain Herbert M. Spencer, Ernest
Clare, Octavins Leigh Johnston, William (Belfast) Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Keswick, William Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Coghill, Douglas Harry Kimber, Henry Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Knowles, Lees Stone, Sir Bgnjamin
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn Strauss, Arthur
Colston, Chas. Ed. H. Athole Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry) Sutherland, Sir Thomas
Cox, Irwin E. Bainbridge Leigh-Bennett, Henry Carrie Talbot, Rt Hn J. G. (Oxford Uni.
Cripps, Charles Alfred Llewelyn, Sir D.-(Swansea) Tollemache, Henry James
Curzon, Viscount Lock wood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Dalbiac, Col. Philip Hugh Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Tritton, Charles Ernest
Dalkeith, Earl of Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) Valentia, Viscount
Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) Wanklyn, James Leslie
Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P. Lowe, Marquess of Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent)
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lowe, Francis William Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.)
Donkin, Richard Sim Lowles, John Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh., N.
Doughty, George Macartney, W. G. Ellison Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Macdona, John Cumming Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Doxford, William Theodore Maclure, Sir John William Wylie, Alexander
Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Wyndham, George
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. Malcolm, Ian Wyndham-Quin, Maj. W. H.
Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. Wyvill, Marmaduke d'Arcy
Finch, George H. Maxwell, Rt. Hn. Sir Herbert E. TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir William Walrond and Mr.Anstruther.
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)
Firbank, Joseph Thomas Mildmay, Francis Bingham

Original Question put, and agreed to.

It being after Ten of the clock, the Chairman, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 23rdFebruary last, proceeded to put the Questions necessary to dispose of the outstanding Votes in the Committee of Supply.

20. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £154,463, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for Grants in Aid of the Expenses of the British Protectorates in Uganda and in Central and East Africa, and under the Uganda Railway Act, 1896."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 206; Noes, 69. (Division List No. 341.)

AYES.
Aird, John Fison, Frederick William More, Robert Jasp. (Shropshire)
Allsopp, Hon. George Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Morrell, George Herbert
Anson, Sir William Reynell FitzWygram, General Sir F. Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)
Arnold, Alfred Flannery, Sir Forcescue Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport)
Asher, Alexander Flower, Ernest Murray, Rt Hn A. Graham (Bute
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r Fry, Lewis Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) Galloway, William Johnson Nicholson, William Graham
Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B. (Clackm.) Gedge, Sydney Nicol, Donald Ninian
Banbury, Frederick George Gibbons, J. Lloyd Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond) Oldroyd, Mark
Barton, Dunbar Plunket Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay
Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin Giles, Charles Tyrrell Parkes, Ebenezer
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol Gilliat, John Saunders Pearson, Sir Weetman D.
Bethell, Commander Goldsworthy, Major-General Pierpoint, Robert
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Gordon, Hon. John Edward Pollock, Harry Frederick
Bigwood, James Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon Pyrce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Blundell, Colonel Henry Goschen, Rt Hn G. J (St George's Purvis, Robert
Bond, Edward Goulding, Edward Alfred Rasch, Major Frederic Carne
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Richards, Henry Charles
Boulnois, Edmund Greene, Henry D. (Shrewb'ry) Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.
Bousfield, William Robert Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson
Brassey, Albert Greville, Hon. Ronald Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Gull, Sir Cameron Round, James
Bullard, Sir Harry Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Burdett-Coutts, W. Harwood, George Ryder, John Herbert Dudley
Butcher, John George Hazell, Walter Savory, Sir Joseph
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) Heaton, John Henniker Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard
Carlile, William Walter Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter Seely, Charles Hilton
Causton, Richard Knight Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveiey (Staffs Sharpe, William Edward T.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) Hoare, Ed. B. (Hampstead) Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire)
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Hogan, James Francis Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire)
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) Houldsworth, Sir W. Henry Simeon, Sir Barrington
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Howard, Joseph Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. Hozier, Hon J. Henry Cecil Spencer, Ernest
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Jackson, Rt. Hn. Wm. Lawies Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk
Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Jenkins, Sir John Jones Stanley, Lord (Lancs)
Charrington, Spencer Jessel, Capt. Herbert Morton Stephens, Henry Charles
Chelsea, Viscount Johnston, William (Belfast) Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M.
Clare, Octavius Leigh Keswick, William Stone, Sir Benjamin
Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. Kimber, Henry Strauss, Arthur
Coghill, Douglas Harry Knowles, Lees Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Sutherland, Sir Thomas
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) Talbot, Rt Hn. J. G. (Ox'dUniv.
Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry Thornton, Percy M.
Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd Leigh-Bennet, Henry Currie Tollemache, Henry James
Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a Tomlinson, Wm. Ed. Murray
Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge Lockwood, Lieut. Col. A. R. Tritton, Charles Ernest
Cripps, Charles Alfred Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Usborne, Thomas
Curzon, Viscount Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham Valentia, Viscount
Dalbiac, Col. Philip Hugh Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverpool Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.)
Dalkeith, Earl of Lowe, Marquis of Wanklyn, James Leslie
Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chath'm Lowe, Francis William Williams, J. Powell-(Birm'g'm.
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Lowles, John Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.)
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Macartney, W. G. Ellison Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)
Donkin, Richard Sim Macdona, John Cumming Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath
Doughty, George Maclure, Sir John William Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudderf'd
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Doxford, William Theodore Malcolm, Ian Wylie, Alexander
Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. Manners, Lord Edw. Wm. J. Wyndham, George
Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir Williain Hart Maple, Sir John Blundell Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H.
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) Mildmay, Francis Bingham Young, Commander (Berks, E.
Finch, George H. Milward, Colonel Victor
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Monk, Charles James TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Firbank, Joseph Thomas Moon, Edw. Robert Pacy
Fisher, William Hayes Moore, William (Antrim, N.).
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) Perks, Robert William
Ashton, Thomas Gair Hedderwick, Thomas Charles H Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Atherley-Jones, L. Horniman, Frederick John Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Austin,' M. (Limerick, W.) Jameson, Major J. Eustace Rickett, J. Compton
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Joicey, Sir James Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Billson, Alfred Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs)
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Kearley, Hudson E. Roberts, William Snowdon
Broadhurst, Henry Kilbride, Denis Runciman, Walter
Burns, John Labouehere, Henry Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh.
Caldwell, James Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) Souttar, Robinson
Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) Lewis, John Herbert Steadman, William Charles
Cawley, Frederick Macaleese, Daniel Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Channing, Francis Allston M'Dermott, Patrick Trevelvan, Charles Philips
Crilly, Daniel M'Leod, John Ure, Alexander
Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) Maddison, Fred. Wallace, Robert
Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) Maden, John Henry Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Dalziel, James Henry Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Whiteley, George (Stockport)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Dillon, John Moss, Samuel Williams, John Carvell (Notts).
Donelan, Captain A. Moulton, John Fletcher Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbro'gh)
Fenwick, Charles O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) Yoxall, James Henry
Gourley, Sir E. Temperley O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Norton and Mr. Pirie.
Griffith, Ellis J. O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- Palmer, Sir Charles M. (Durham

21. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £1,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st March, 1900,

for a Grant in Aid of the Revenue of the Island of Cyprus."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 196; Noes, 78. (Division List, No. 342.)

AYES.
Aird, John Clare, Octavius Leigh Gibbons, J. Lloyd
Allsopp, Hon. George Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lond
Anson, Sir William Reynell Coghill, Douglas Harry Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans
Arnold, Alfred Cohen, Benjamin Louis Giles, Charles Tyrrell
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Gilliat, John Saunders
Bagot, Cap. J. FitzRoy Colston, Chas. E. H. Athole Goldsworthy, Major-General
Balfour, Rt. Hon. G. W. (Leeds Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) Gordon, Hon. John Edward
Banbury, Frederick George Cooke, C. W. Radoliffe (Herefd. Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon
Barnes, Frederic Gorell Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. Goulding, Edward Alfred
Barton, Dunbar Pluuket Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge Gray, Ernest (West Ham)
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benj. Cripps, Charles Alfred Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol Curzon, Viscount Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs.
Bethell, Commander Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh Greville, Hon. Ronald
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Dalkeith, Earl of Gull, Sir Cameron
Bigwood, James Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm.
Blundell, Colonel Henry Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Harwood, George
Bond, Edward Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Heaton, John Henniker
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Donkin, Richard Sim Hermon-Hodge, Robt. Trotter
Boulnois, Edmund Doughty, George Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs.
Bousfield, William Robert Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Hoare. Ed. Brodie (Hampstead)
Brassey, Albert Doxford. William Theodore Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. Howard, Joseph
Bullard, Sir Harry Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. Hart Hozier. Hon. J. Henry Cecil
Burdett-Coutts, W. Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. Jackson, Rt. Hn. Wm. Lawies
Butcher, John George Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) Finch, George H. Jenkins, Sir John Jones
Carlile, William Walter Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. Firbank, Joseph Thomas Johnston, William (Belfast)
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Fisher, William Hayes Keswick, William
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) Fison, Frederick William Kimber, Henry
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) FitzWygram, General Sir F. Knowles, Lees
Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. Flannery, Sir Fortescue Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. Flower. Ernest Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Fry, Lewis Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry)
Charrington, Spencer Galloway, William Johnson Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie
Chelsea, Viscount Gedge, Sydney Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a
Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Northcote, Hon Sir H. Stafford Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M.
Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay Stone, Sir Benjamin
Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) Parkes, Ebenezer Strauss, Arthur
Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpool) Pierpoint, Robert Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Lowe, Marquees of Pollock, Harry Frederick Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Lowe, Francis William Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Sutherland, Sir Thomas
Lowles, John Purvis, Robert Talbot, Rt Hn J. G. (Oxford Uni.
Macartney, W. G. Ellison Rasch, Major Frederic Carne Thornton, Percy M.
Macdona, John Cumming Richards, Henry Charles Tollemache, Henry James
Maclure, Sir John William Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir M. W. Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. T. Tritton, Charles Ernest
Malcolm Ian Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Usborne, Thomas
Manners, Ld. Edward Wm. J. Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye Valentia, Viscount
Maple, Sir John Blundell Round, James Wanklyn, James Leslie
Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. (Kent)
Mildmay, Francis Bingham Ryder, John Herbert Dudley Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Milward, Colonel Victor Sandys, Lieut.-Col. T. Myles Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm.
Monk, Charles James Savory, Sir Joseph Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N)
Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Scobel, Sir Andrew Richard Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks)
Moore, William (Antrim, N.) Seely, Charles Hilton Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath
More, Robt. Jasper (Shropsh.) Sharpe, William Edward T. Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Morrell, George Herbert Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) Wylie, Alexander
Morton (A. H. A. (Deptford) SideBottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) Wyndham, George
Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) Simeon, Sir Barrington Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H.
Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Spencer, Ernest Young, Commander (Berks, E.
Newdigate, Francis Alexander Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Nicholson, William Graham Stanley, E. James (Somerset)
Nicol, Donald Ninian Stanley, Lord (Lancashire)
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) Perks, Robert William
Asher, Alexander Hedderwiek, Thomas C. H. Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Ashton, Thomas Gair Hogan, James Francis Pirie, Duncan V.
Atherley-Jones, L. Horniman, Frederick John Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Jameson, Major J. Eustace Rickett, J. Compton
Balfour, Rt. Hon. J. B. (Clackm. Joicey, Sir James Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Billson, Alfred Jones, W. (Carnarvonshire) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Kearley, Hudson E. Robson, William Snowdon
Broadhurst, Henry Kilbride, Denis Runciman, Walter
Burns, John Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh.)
Caldwell, James Lewis, John Herbert Souttar, Robinson
Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow Macaleese, Daniel Steadman, William Charles
Causton, Richard Knight M'Dermott, Patrick Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Cawley, Frederick M'Leod, John Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Crilly, Daniel Maddison, Fred Ure, Alexander
Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) Maden, John Henry Wallace, Robert
Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.)
Dalziel, James Henry Moore, Arthur (Londonderry) Warner, Thos. Courtenay T.
Dlike, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merth'r Whiteley, George (Stockport)
Dillon, John Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Donelan, Captain A. Moss, Samuel Williams, John Carvell (Notts.
Fenwick, Charles Moulton, John Fletcher Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudderf'd
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) Yoxall, James Henry
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.)
Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Channing and Captain Norton.
Griffith, Ellis J. Oldroyd, Mark
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham)
Hazell, Walter Pearson, Sir Weetman D.

22. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £34,241, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March,

1900, for the Subsidies to certain Telegraph Companies."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 197; Noes, 84. (Division List, No. 343.)

AYES.
Aird, John Fisher, William Hayes Morrell, George Herbert
Allsopp, Hon. George Fison, Frederick William Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)
Anson, Sir William Reynell FitzWygram, General Sir F. Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)
Arnold, Alfred Flannery, Sir Fortescue Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Flower, Ernest Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FizRoy Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) Newdigate, Francis Alexander
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W. (Leeds Fry, Lewis Nicholson, William Graham
Banbury, Frederick George Galloway, Wm. Johnson Nicol, Donald Ninian
Barnes, Frederick Gorell Gedge, Sydney Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford
Barton, Dunbar Plunket Gibbons, J. Lloyd Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Gibbs, Hn A.G. H. (City of Lond. Parkes, Ebenezer
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol Gibbs, Hn. Vicary (St. Albans) Pierpoint, Robert
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Giles, Charles Tyrrell Pollock, Harry Frederick
Bethell, Commander Gilliat, John Saunders Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Goldsworthy, Major-General Purvis, Robert
Bigwood, James Gordon, Hon. John Edward Rasch, Major Frederic Carne
Blundell, Colonel Henry Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. Richards, Henry Charles
Bond, Edward Goschen, Rt Hn G. J. (St George's Ridley, Rt Hon Sir Matthew W.
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Goulding, Edward Alfred Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson
Boulnois, Edward Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Bousfield, William Robert Green, H. D. (Shrewsbury) Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Brassey, Albert Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Round, James
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Greville, Hon. Ronald Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Bullard, Sir Harry Gull, Sir Cameron Ryder, John Herbert Dudley
Burdett-Coutts, W. Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robt. W. Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos Myles
Butcher, John George Harwood, George Savory, Sir Joseph
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter Scoble, Sir Henry Richard
Carlile, William Walter Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. Seely, Charles Hilton
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) Hoare, Ed. Brodie (Hampstead Sharpe, William Edward T.
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire)
Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) Howard, Joseph Sidebottom, William (Derbysh.
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hozier, Hon. Jas. Henry Cecil Simeon, Sir Barrington
Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick Spencer, Ernest
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Jenkins, Sir John Jones Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton Stanley, E. Jas. (Somerset)
Charrington, Spencer Johnston, William (Belfast) Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Chelsea, Viscount Keswick, William Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Clare, Octavius Leigh Kimber, Henry Stone, Sir Benjamin
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Knowles, Lees Strauss, Arthur
Coghill, Douglas Harry Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Lawrence, W. F. (Liverpool) Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) Sutherland, Sir Thomas
Colston, Chas. Ed. H. Athole Lea, Sir Thomas(Londonderry) Talbot, Rt. Hn. J G (Oxf'd Univ.)
Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Thornton, Percy M.
Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans'a Tollemache, Henry James
Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray
Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Tritton, Charles Ernest
Cripps, Charles Alfred Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham Usborne Thomas
Curzon, Viscount Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (L'pool) Valentia, Viscount
Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh Lorne, Marquess of Wanklyn, James Leslie
Dalkeith, Earl of Lowe, Francis William Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent)
Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham Lowles, John Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Macartney, W. G. Ellison Williams Joseph Powell-(Birm
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Macdona, John Cumming Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.
Donkin, Richard Sim Maclure, Sir John William Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks)
Doughty, George M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Malcolm, Ian Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Doxford, William Theodore Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. Wylie, Alexander
Drucker, A. Maple, Sir John Blundell Wyndham, George
Duncombe. Hon. Hubert V. Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) Wyndham-Quin, Maj. W. H.
Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Mildmay, Francis Bingham Wyvil, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edwd. Milward, Colonel Victor Young, Commander (Berks, E.
Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) Monk, Charles James
Finch, George H. Moon, Edward Robert Pacy TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Moore, William (Antrim, N.)
Firbank, Joseph Thomas More, Robt. J. (Shropshire)
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Broadhurst, Henry
Asher, Alexander Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B.(Clackm. Burns, John
Ashton, Thomas Gair Billson, Alfred Caldwell, James
Atherley-Jones, L. Bolton, Thomas Dolling Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow)
Causton, Richard Knight Joicey, Sir James Perks, Robert Willams
Cawley, Frederick Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Channing, Francis Allston Kearley, Hudson, E. Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Crilly, Daniel Kilbride, Denis Rickett, J. Compton
Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) Lewis, John Herbert Roberts John H. (Denbighs.)
Dalziel, James Henry Lloyd-George, David Robson, William Snowdon
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Macaleese, Daniel Runciman, Walter
Dillon, John M'Dermott, Patrick Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh.)
Donelan, Captain A. M'Ewan, William Souttar, Robinson
Fen wick, Charles M'Leod, John Steadman, William Charles
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Maddison, Fred. Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Maden, John Henry Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. H. John Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Ure, Alexander
Gourley, Sir E. Temperley Moore, Arthur (Londonderry) Wallace, Robert
Griffith, Ellis J. Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthr. Walton, John Lawson (Leeds, S.
Hayne, Rt. Hn. Chas. Seale- Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) Warner, Thomas C. T.
Hazell, Walter Moss, Samuel Whiteley, George (Stockport)
Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) Moulton, John Fletcher Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Heaton, John Henniker O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) Williams, John Carvell (Notts.
Hedderwick, Thos. Chas. H. O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddrsfld
Hogan, James Francis O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Yoxall, James Henry
Holland, Wm. H. (York, W. R.) Oldroyd, Mark TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Norton and Mr. Pirie.
Horniman, Frederick John Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham).
Jameson, Major J. Eustace Pearson, Sir Weetman D.
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