§
Amendment proposed—
Page 29, line 24, after the word 'where,' to insert the words 'after due process of law.'"—(Mr. T. M. Healy.)
§ * MR. ATKINSONThese words are really not required. A mandamus can only be issued after due process of law.
§ * MR. ATKINSONWhen one party applies for a mandamus the other party will have whatever right the law gives him.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ * MR. DILLONinquired what the functions of the office referred to in this clause were intended to be.
§ MR. GERALD BALFOURsaid that in clause 9 and other clauses power was conferred on the Lord Lieutenant to make certain orders. It was necessary to provide some means to enforce those orders.
§ * MR. DILLONAnything more revolutionary than this clause I have never seen. There appears to be no limit to the powers. Take this case. Suppose 253 a deadlock occurred, which is not at all an extravagant proposition, between the lord lieutenant and the county council, upon the scale upon which they are to build; the lord lieutenant appoints an officer by virtue of this mandamus, who supersedes the county council, and takes all their powers, and he acts so long as the county council will not submit to the will of the lord lieutenant, and he can ride rough-shod over them. I think it is a monstrous thing, and unless the Government promises to reconsider the matter, I shall certainly claim a Division.
§ * MR. ATKINSONOf course, before the lord lieutenant would make such an order there must be a specific case of neglect on the part of the county council—some specific instance where they had failed to do their duty. Then an order would be made by the lord lieutenant that they shall do it, and if they did not, then the lord lieutenant could go to the court for a mandamus to compel them. But no mandamus will allow a man to adopt a general course of conduct. It is to compel him to do a particular thing. If the county council fail to do their duty, and remain obdurate, then an officer will be clothed with power to carry out that particular thing, but no case would arise where he could go on for years.
§ MR. P. A. M'HUGHI rise for the purpose of supporting my honourable Friend the Member for East Mayo, and I sincerely hope that he will press for a Division unless the Government gives him a clear explanation as to the meaning of this clause. Now the Attorney General has said that a mandamus must be given in connection with some specific matter. Let me give an instance of a specific
§ matter. The lord lieutenant sends down to the city of Sligo an order for more police. The borough of Sligo is to be taxed £200 or £300 for extra police. The borough of Sligo refuse to pay it, the county council refuses to pay. Well, that is a specific case. Then the lord lieutenant sends down to us, and we refuse to do what he thinks is our duty. We refuse to further burden the rates; we refuse to do anything of the kind. So he goes and gets a mandamus, and sends down an officer to collect that money in defiance of the wish of the county council of Sligo and the borough of Sligo. Now, I want to know what is going to happen when the county council of Sligo refuse, as they certainly will, to do what the lord lieutenant calls their duty, I consider their duty is to resist; under those circumstances will the right honourable Gentleman send down an officer to take over the duties of the county council?
§ * MR. ATKINSONI am bound to answer this question as it has been put to me. The order or demand would be made, the council refuses, then comes the application for the mandamus, which would be obtained, and if the money was not forthcoming, the honourable Member and other members of the county council would be relieved of their duties, and the officer would collect the rate.
§ MR. P. A. M'HUGHThen I properly interpreted the views of the Government, and I, under the circumstances, press my Friend to go to a Division.
§
Question put—
That clause 53 stand part of the Bill.
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes 118; Noes 48.—(Division List No. 114.)
255| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. F. | Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbysh.) | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- |
| Allhusen, Augustus H. E. | Chaloner, Capt. R. G. W. | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. |
| Arnold, Alfred | Chamberlain, Rt.Hn.J. (Birm.) | Fellowes, Hon, Ailwyn Edw. |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne |
| Balcarres, Lord | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Balfour, Rt.Hn. G. W. (Leeds) | Chelsea, Viscount | FitzGerald, Sir R. Penrose- |
| Barry, RtHnAHSmith-(Hunts) | Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. | Folkestone, Viscount |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Foster, Colonel (Lancaster) |
| Beach, Rt.Hn.Sir M.H.(Brist'l) | Colomb, Sir John Charles R. | Galloway, William Johnson |
| Beckett, Ernest William | Compton, Lord Alwyne | Gedge, Sydney |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Corbett, A. C. (Glasgow) | Gibbons, J. Lloyd |
| Brassey, Albert | Cox, Robert | Goldsworthy, Major-General |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Gordon, Hon. John Edward |
| Brookfield, A. Montagu | Curzon, Viscount (Bucks.) | Goschen, George J. (Sussex) |
| Carlile, William Walter | Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P. | Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs) |
| Gretton, John | Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverp'l) | Purvis, Robert |
| Greville, Captain | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller | Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W. |
| Gull, Sir Cameron | Lucas-Shadwell, William | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Charles T. |
| Hamilton, Rt. Hun. Lord G. | Maclure, Sir John William | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. R. W. | McArthur, Chas, (Liverpool) | Saundersan, Col. Edw. James |
| Hanson, Sir Reginald | McCalmont.Mj-Gn.(Ant'm,N.) | Smith, A. H. (Christchurch) |
| Haslett, Sir James Horner | McCalmont,Col. J.(Ant'm, E.) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Heath, James | McKillop, James | Stanley, E. J. (Somerset) |
| Helder, Augustus | Malcolm, Ian | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Hermon-Hodge, Robert T. | Martin, Richard Biddulph | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Hill, Rt. Hn. Lord A. (Down) | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Tomlinson, W. E. Murray |
| Hill, Sir Edward S. (Bristol) | Milner, Sir Frederick George | Waring, Col. Thomas |
| Hobhouse, Henry | Milward, Colonel Victor | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Holland, Hon. Lionel R. | Montagu, Hon. J. S. (Hants) | Webster, Sir R. E. (I. of W.) |
| Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | More, Robert Jasper | Williams, J. Powell (Birm.) |
| Jolliffe, Hon. H. George | Morrell, George Herbert | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Kimber, Henry | Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) | Wortley, Rt.Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Lafone, Alfred | Myers, William Henry | Wylie, Alexander |
| Lawrence, Sir E. (Cornwall) | Newdigate, Francis Alex. | Young, Com. (Berks., E.) |
| Lawson, John G. (Yorks.) | Nicol, Donald Ninian | |
| Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry) | O'Neill, Hon. Robert T. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Leigh-Bennett, Hy. Currie | Phillpotts, Capt. Arthur | Sir William Walrond and |
| Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Mr. Anstruther. |
| Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Plunkett, Rt. Hon. H. C. | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Hayden, John Patrick | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) |
| Allen, Wm. (Newc.-under-L.) | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | Murnaghan, George |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Healy, Maurice (Cork) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Brigg, John | Healy, T. M. (Louth, N.) | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary) |
| Caldwell, James | Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Chas. H. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Carew, James Laurence | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Reckitt, Harold James |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Jordan, Jeremiah | Roche, Hon. J. (Kerry, E.) |
| Clough, Walter Owen | Kilbride, Denis | Roche, John (Galway, E.) |
| Collery, Bernard | Knox, Edmund F. Vesey | Shee, James John |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Macaleese, Daniel | Sheehy, David |
| Crean, Eugene | McDonnell,Dr.M.A.(Qn.'sCo.) | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Daly, James | McCartan, Michael | Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.) |
| Dillon, John | McDermott, Patrick | Tully, Jasper |
| Doogan, P. C. | M'Hugh, Patrick A. (Leitrim) | Wedderburn, Sir William |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Maden, John Henry | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | Mandeville, J. Francis | Sir Thomas Esmonde and |
| Hammond, John (Carlow) | Molloy, Bernard Charles | Captain Donelan. |
§ Clause 53 added to the Bill.
§ Committee report Progress.
§ House resumed.