Commons Sitting of 21 June 1897

NOTICE OF MOTION.
  MONETARY EXCHANGES (BRITISH EMPIRE).
  MR. R. G. WEBSTER: To call attention to the diversity of the monetary exchange in the various parts of the British Empire, and the consequent loss to the agricultural, manufacturing, and mercantile interests thereby; and to move a Resolution.—[Monday, 19th July.]
QUESTIONS.

  QUEEN'S DIAMOND JUBILEE.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether the Postmaster General has received a memorial from the National Sub-Postmasters' Federation, praying that Jubilee Day, the 22nd instant, might be allowed to be observed as Sunday for office duties by the sub-postmasters, numbering 19,000, in the employ of the Post Office, who will otherwise be deprived of what is a general holiday; and whether, if the requirements of the public service cannot afford this, another day as holiday will be allowed to the sub-postmasters in lieu thereof?
  THE SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Mr. R. W. HANBITRY,): It would be contrary to the interests of the public to allow the Sub-Post Offices throughout the country to be closed for the whole or nearly the whole of the day on the 22nd instant, and the Postmaster General is unable to do more than treat the day as a Bank Holiday, which will admit of Sub-Post Offices which are not Telegraph Offices being closed at noon. He regrets he cannot undertake to give a holiday on another day.
  MR. J. W. MACLURE: I beg to ask the First Commissioner of Works whether a refreshment bar is being, or will be, constructed under the stage erected for Her Majesty's Jubilee in the Speaker's Green; and whether it is true that no wines or spirits can be sold therein, in consequence of this House not having or holding any licence?
  THE FIRST COMMISSIONER or WORKS (Mr. A. AKERS-DOUGLAS, Kent,): In answer to the hon. Member's Question, I have to state that a refreshment bar has been erected. ["Hear, hear!"] With regard to the class of entertainment provided, I must refer the hon. Member to the Kitchen Committee.
  In reply to Mr. PATRICK O'BRIEN,
  MR. AKERS-DOUGLASsaid that no further arrangements could be made for the attendants at the House to facilitate their witnessing the Jubilee State Procession. Every possible arrangement had been made to provide for the permanent staff, and he understood from them that they were very well satisfied.
  SIR GEORGE BADEN-POWELL: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether steps can be taken to enable officers and men of the Royal Naval Reserve to muster in uniform and be present on board some of Her Majesty's ships at the approaching Jubilee Naval Review?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. GOSCHEN,): I do not exactly know what the hon. Member means by the Royal Naval Reserve mustering on board the ships. Forty-one Royal Naval Reserve officers, 676 first and second class Royal Naval Reserve men, and 136 firemen will be on board Her Majesty's ships at the Naval Review, and will be taking duty in uniform in their proper place side by side with the Royal Navy.
  SIR JOHN COLOMB: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will arrange to have placed on board the vessels taking the Colonial forces round the Fleet on Wednesday next, a sufficient supply of Parliamentary Return (Seagoing War Ships, &c.), No. 460, Session 2, I895, showing the value of seaborne commerce, mercantile marine, annual

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  revenue, and Naval expenditure on seagoing force of the United Kingdom, the Colonies, and Foreign countries respectively, with a view to affording the officers and men information respecting the Naval responsibilities of the Empire and the cost of their discharge, and to enable them to compare the action of their own Colonies with that of the Mother Country and of Foreign countries in providing for defence of maritime interests?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: No, Sir; I cannot accept the ingenious suggestion of my honourable and gallant Friend. The viewing of a great outdoor display and the visiting of the ships is not an appropriate moment for the study of complicated comparative statistics.
  *MR. BURDETT-COUTTSasked whether it was still too late to arrange that the colonial troops might see the British Fleet at the same time and under the same circumstances that the rest of England would see it? [Cheers.]
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTYsaid he was sorry to find that rumours had been circulated to the effect that the absence of arrangement by which the colonial troops now in England might witness the Review on the 96th was due to financial considerations. ["Hear, hear!"] That was not the case, and it was a great pity that attempts should be made to spoil the grace of the reception by such insinuations. ["Hear, hear!"] The difficulties were not those of finance, they were difficulties of arrangements. The responsibilities of the authorities at Portsmouth with the enormous number of ships there and visiting ships expected were immense; the railway accommodation was absorbed, there were to be 40 special trains on one of the lines, and jetty accommodation was entirely taken up. The difficulties in the way of providing for the colonial troops were most serious. This morning, however, the Admiralty had received an offer of a ship and a special train, which had been provided for other purposes. The gentleman who had secured this ship and train had offered these to the Admiralty—[cheers]—of course, on the usual terms. [Laughter and ironical cheers.] Of course it was perfectly right and reasonable this should be so. [Ironical
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  cheers.] The Admiralty, the Treasury, and, he was sure, the House of Commons, would be prepared to defray the cost. [Cheers.] Having received this offer, he had placed himself in communication with the officers commanding the colonial troops and the Commander-in-Chief at Portsmouth, whose responsibilities must not be increased up to a point that would endanger a breakdown in the arrangements; that was laid down as an absolute proposition. Tie had telegraphed to him informing him of the strong desire existing that provision should be made, and, the train and ship being available, there remained the difficulty of finding room for the ship in waters almost as full of traffic as the streets of the metropolis. He was in communication with the officer commanding, and he hoped that difficulties might be overcome. From the first there had been the greatest desire in the Departments to do full justice to our guests, and he ventured to think that indications of this desire had already been given. He hoped that with the offer placing the train and ship at the disposal of the Admiralty the suggestion in the Question might be met. ["Hear, hear!"]
  MR. CUMMING MACDONAinquired if colonial Members of Parliament were to receive invitations?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTYsaid special arrangements had been made for colonial Premiers and 150 colonial guests. Inquiries on this point should be addressed to the Colonial Office; the Admiralty could only do what was possible in providing ships.
  MR. GIBSON BOWLESasked whether, in the event of difficulties arising as to trains or jetties, the right hon. Gentleman would consider the possibility of embarking their colonial visitors on Friday, and taking them round by sea?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTYsaid this had been considered. He had been in communication with the officer commanding, who thought there would be great difficulty in making the arrangement, but it would be considered.
  MR. J. M. MACLEAN: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether the British Volunteers in India, constituting an Imperial force of nearly 30,000 men, were invited to send

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  representatives to England to take part in the procession of 22nd June; and, if not, will he explain on what grounds?
  THE UNDER SECRETARY or STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. G. CURZON,), on behalf of LORD GEORGE HAMILTON: The Question as to what representatives of the forces in India should be sent home to take part in the procession of the 22nd June was fully considered in communication with the Viceroy of India, and it was decided to follow the precedent of 1887, increasing the number of officers of the Native Cavalry, and adding representatives of the Imperial Service troops from the Native States. Neither the Native Infantry nor Volunteers arc represented on the present occasion.

  POST OFFICE PETITION.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he is aware that a petition recently forwarded by the clerks of the Eastern Central District has been returned because it was not written on foolscap paper; whether he is aware that a petition from the Central Telegraph Office written on similar paper was accepted; and if, considering the urgency of the petition, and the difficulty attending the procuring of signatures in the Eastern Central District, he will accept the petition as it stands?
  MR. HANBURY: The Postmaster General was not aware, but he finds that it was done in accordance with an old standing rule of the London Postal Service, which must have been well known to the petitioners. He is aware that the petition from the Central Telegraph Office, which is not part of the London Postal Service, was accepted. That of the Eastern Central District was returned on Monday the 31st ult.; and a fresh petition in proper form, which was received on the 3rd inst., is now under consideration.

  DOG-MUZZLING (SHEEP DOGS).
  *SIR CHARLES DILKE: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture what is the result of the inquiries into the application of the dog-muzzling order to sheep dogs while working?
  *THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE (Mr. WALTER LONG,): I have caused a special inquiry to be made as to this matter, the result of which goes to show that no really serious inconvenience is caused by requiring sheep dogs to be muzzled in districts in which such a measure is necessary. This view is confirmed by the past experience, both of the Board of Agriculture and many local authorities, when muzzling regulations have been made. Moreover, the proposed exemption would seriously impair the efficiency of the orders now in force, and render it necessary for them to be continued for a longer period than I hope will be necessary. I regret, therefore, that I do not see my way to adopt the suggestion which the right hon. Baronet has made to me.
  MR. THOMAS BAYLEYasked whether the muzzling order applied to sporting as well as to sheep dogs?
  *MR. WALTER LONG: No, Sir; it does not. ["Hear, hear!"]

  PLUMBERS' REGISTRATION BILL.
  MR. W. WOODALL: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the important powers proposed to be conferred upon the Plumbers' Company by the Plumbers' Registration Bill, a copy of the charter and of the bye-laws of the Company can be laid upon the Table of the House, showing how the Master and Wardens and Commonalty of the Freemen of the Ancient Guild of Plumbers are appointed and removed, and under what conditions they hold office?
  MR. G. C. T. BARTLEY: I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether, before the Plumbers' Registration Bill is further proceeded with, he will lay upon the Table a statement showing the constitution and resources of the Ancient Guild of Plumbers, who are to administer the Bill if it become law?
  THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. HENRY CHAPLIN,): It will be convenient that I should, in answering this Question, also reply to the Question of my hon. Friend the Member for North Islington. I am informed that

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  the only charter of the Company known to be in existence is one granted by James I. The earlier charters are believed to be lost. The Ordinance dates back to the time of Edward III. The Report of the City of London Livery Companies Commission of 1884, however, contains a lengthy abstract of the charter and the provisions of the Ordinances and bye-laws of the Company. The Returns for the purpose of that Commission were supplemented by information relative to the later regulations of the Company given in evidence before the Select Committee on the Plumbers' Registration Bill, 1892. I have no doubt that, if it be desired, the Company would cause to be furnished a brief statement of the constitution and resources of the Company, which might, if it were moved for, be laid on the Table of the House.

  MEDALS (33RD REGIMENT).
  MR. R. PIERPOINT: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the 33rd Regiment served in India during the Mutiny; could he state -why the officers and men of the regiment have not received medals in recognition of their services; and whether medals will now be given the survivors of those who served?
  THE UNDER SECRETARY or STATE FOR WAR (Mr. BRODRICK,): The Indian Mutiny Medal was intended only for troops engaged with the mutineers. The 33rd Regiment, though quartered in India at the time of the Mutiny, was not so employed, and therefore did not receive the medal.

  NAVAL MANŒUVRES.
  SIR EDWARD GOURLEY: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty, (1) can he state to the House at what time, and where, it is intended to mobilise the Channel and Reserve Squadrons for the annual exercises and manœuvres; (2) whether the operations are to be held between the English Channel, East Coast of Scotland, and north of Europe, or only upon the old routes, or both; (3) will he state the number and classes of vessels that will be manœuvred at sea, and how many, and the description of vessels which will
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  form the reserve for harbour defence and relief operations; (4) whether experiments in coaling will be performed at sea; and (5) can he also state what number of men of the coastguard, and how many of the first and second class reserves of seamen, and how many of stokers and firemen are to be embarked, and upon what terms?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: The answer to the first Question is that the Channel and Reserve Squadrons have been already mobilised. I am not prepared at present to answer the second Question. The information asked for in the third Question will be published later, as in former years. The answer to the fourth Question is in the negative. The answer to the fifth Question is that 1,858 Coastguardsmen and 676 first and second class and 136 firemen of the Royal Naval Reserve have been embarked upon the same terms as in previous years.

  NATIONAL SCHOOL TEACHERS (IRELAND).
  DR. TANNER: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether it is the intention to demand a still further deduction from the salaries of the Irish National School Teachers for the purpose of insuring the solvency of the Pension Fund; whether the enforcement in this direction is in accordance with the contract entered into with the teachers when joining the scheme; whether any such. deficiency was or was not made duly public in due time; and, if the amount in question can be made good from Imperial sources?
  The HON. MEMBERalso asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if the amount due under the Arrears Act, amounting, as recently given, to £100,000, will either be entirely or only partially granted to the Irish National Teachers?
  THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. GERALD BALFOUR,): It is the intention to require from the Irish National School teachers an increase of their subscriptions to the Pension Fund. The subscription as thus increased will not exceed the amount which the teachers ought to have been required to pay from the beginning.

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  There is no intention to make teachers who now subscribe to the fund pay for the pensions of future subscribers. The arrangement proposed is in my opinion a fair one, and I am not aware of any contract entered into with the teachers when joining the scheme inconsistent with it.
  CAPTAIN DONELAN: May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman has received any resolution from the National Teachers' Association of Ireland on the subject.
  MR. GERALD BALFOUR: Yes, Sir; I have received such a resolution, but it appears to me to be based upon a misconception.

  NAVAL HOSPITALS.
  DR. TANNER: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether any, and if so what, system is pursued with regard to the audit of all Naval Hospital diet sheets?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: The various diet sheets are compiled by the Medical Officers of wards, who enter personally on them, daily, the diets they have ordered. These sheets are examined in the office of the principal Medical Officer in charge of the hospital, who certifies on the quarterly provision account that this has been done. The audit of the hospital accounts, which includes that of diet sheets, has been conducted for some time past by the Controller and Auditor General.

  TELEPHONE TRUNK LINES.
  MR. A. D. PROVAND: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, how much money has been voted in connection with the telephone service, beginning with sums paid when the trunk lines were taken over by the Post Office?
  MR. HANBURY: The amount authorised by Parliament for the purposes of the Acts 55 and 56 Vict., ch. 59, and 59 and 60 Vict., ch. 40, is £1,300,000. In the ordinary annual Votes no separate provision is made by Parliament, and, therefore, the information desired by the hon. Member cannot be furnished.

  DEATH DUTIES.
  SIR GEORGE BADEN-POWELL: I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will state what is the total amount of deductions from Death Duties made during the past financial year under Section 20 of the Finance Act of 1894?
  THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS BEACH,): £18,000.

  LETTER BOXES.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether sub-postmasters are called upon to fix wall letter boxes at, and where necessary erect iron pillar letter boxes opposite, their offices at their own expense, and at a cost varying from £3 to £8, and in addition to keep them in repair and have them painted regularly; and whether, seeing that in some cases the Department has refunded the whole cost to the sub-postmaster in quarterly instalments, and in others half the cost only, but that in the majority of cases nothing has been refunded towards the cost, one uniform system could be adopted, and every sub-postmaster be refunded the full cost of the letter box?
  MR. HANBURY: It is part of every sub-postmaster's duty to provide a letter box at his own expense and maintain it, and as a general rule he makes his own arrangements for doing so. But in special cases where structural difficulties exist, a pillar box is erected and the sub-postmaster is required to pay for the box a sum of about £4, which is estimated also to cover the cost of maintenance. The Department has sometimes felt justified in exceptional cases, such as a very brief tenure of the office, in remitting a portion of the expense incurred, but it is not thought expedient that the full cost of the box should be borne by the Revenue, and Lord Tweedmouth's Committee expressed their opinion that "the provision of letter boxes must be regarded as on of the conditions of sub-postmasters employment."

  POST OFFICE (LEAVE OF ABSENCE).
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General (1) whether sub-postmasters are the only section of the 140,000 servants of the Post Office for whom the Department do not provide a substitute at the public expense during annual leave or during sickness and (2) whether, when a clerk is sent from the head office to take charge for the sub-postmaster, the sub-postmaster is almost invariably called upon to pay considerably more for the relief than he has himself been paid for the same period, and in addition also held responsible by the Department for all the clerk does or omits?
  MR. HANBURY: Substantially the answer to the first part of the hon. Member's Question is in the affirmative. It must be remembered that, unlike other officers of the Department, the sub-postmasters, as a rule, are not required to give their whole time to the service, but are at liberty to attend to private business. Those who must devote their whole time, to the work of the Department are allowed leave at the public expense. Generally speaking, in the absence of a sub-postmaster who has a private business, the work of the Post Office is carried on by his assistant or some member of his family, and it is not necessary for him to obtain the services of another officer; but when it is necessary he has to pay for them, and no doubt it is often the case that the temporary payment is at a higher rate than his own salary for the same period. He is, of course, still held responsible for the business of the office.

  WATER SUPPLY (LONDON).
  MR. B. L. COHEN: I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he is aware that the Royal Commission on the Water Supply of London have been unable to commence their inquiry in consequence of no rooms having been assigned to the Commission to hold their sittings; and whether he can state when the necessary accommodation will be provided and the inquiry commenced?
  MR. CHAPLIN: I am informed that the Commissioners held their first meeting on May 29, when temporary
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  accommodation was provided for them. Offices have since been assigned to the Commission, and I am advised that the Inquiry is proceeding.

  GRAND JURY (CO. WICKLOW).
  MR. JAMES O'CONNOR: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the Secretary of the County Wicklow Grand Jury has withheld a sum of money due to Mr. Whelan, Tinahely, for work done as a road contractor; and upon what grounds, or for what purpose, has the money been retained?
  MR. GERALD BALFOUR: The Secretary of the Grand Jury informs me that in obedience to an Order of the Exchequer Division of the High Court, he paid the amount in question to Mr. Symes, who was appointed, by the Order, Receiver over the moneys payable by the Grand Jury to Whelan for road contracts, to satisfy, in part, the amount of the judgment in an action brought by Whelan against Symes.

  HISTORICAL MANUSCRIPTS COMMISSION.
  SIR THOMAS ESMONDE: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury when the Report of the Vote for the Expenses of the Historical Manuscripts Commission will be taken?
  MR. HANBURY: The Report of this Vote will be postponed till Monday next.

  WOUNDING AN ENGLISH SAILOR AT VENICE.
  MR. W. S. ROBSON: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that, on the 9th May last, an English sailor, Thomas Storrer, of the s.s. Silverton, was seriously wounded by the police of Venice, one of whom shot him while he was in their custody and making no attempt at escape; whether it is the fact that no punishment has been imposed on the officer who fired the shot; and whether he will cause inquiries to be made into the case, and procure the punishment of that officer, or such compensation for Storrer as the circumstances may show to be proper?
  MR. CURZON: The incident was duly reported by Her Majesty's Consul at Venice to the Board of Trade on the 12th of May. The Inspector of Police furnished the Consul with a statement of the circumstances, to the effect that Storrer attempted to throw one of the police officers into the sea, and at the same time to release himself from the grasp of another, who drew his pistol, wounding Storrer, it is alleged, accidentally. The bullet was successfully extracted at the hospital, and it does not appear that the wound has had any serious consequences. The trial of Storrer and of the other seamen charged with him with riotous conduct was concluded on the 11th instant. They were sentenced to 32 days' imprisonment, but were immediately released, having already been detained that time in prison. The police officer who fired the shot was acquitted. The Consul applied for and was authorised to provide legal assistance for the men. Her Majesty's Ambassador at Rome, who has been apprised of the fact by the Consul, will be requested to state his views on the case, concerning which we have at present no further information.

  2ND DRAGOON GUARDS.
  MR. MACLURE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the 2nd Dragoon Guards, when sent to Shorn-cliff e, were informed that they would be quartered there until the end of this year; that, upon this understanding, several of the officers took houses in the neighbourhood at great expense to last out this time; and that last week notice was given to them to be ready to depart for London within a week, and to go thence to York; and will the Secretary of State for War indemnify these officers who upon such short notice have had to make so great a sacrifice?
  MR. BRODRICK: The duration of a regiment's stay at any particular station must depend on circumstances, and no information as to the term of its stay at Shorncliffe could have been given by authority to the regiment referred to. On the other hand, it was intimated in the February Army Orders that the regiment would proceed to Yorkshire after
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  the summer drills at Aldershot. There would therefore appear to be no ground for compensation.

  POST OFFICE SORTERS.
  SIR ALBERT ROLLIT: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether it is with the sanction of the Postmaster General that the practice which has existed for ninny years at the Northern District Office is to be departed from, and that suburban overseers who have been recruited from the ranks of postmen are to be introduced into the town office to supervise sorters who have passed a high educational test, sorters being thus deprived of their chance of promotion?
  MR. HANBURY: The second class of overseers in the Northern District, as in other districts of London, has become redundant under the recommendations of the Tweedmouth Committee, and the question of disposing of the officers at present in this class is now being considered. No decision has yet been arrived at.

  SUPPLY (POST OFFICE ESTIMATES).
  SIR ALBERT ROLLIT: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, when will the Revenue Departments (Post Office) Estimates be taken?
  MR. HANBURY: These Estimates will not be taken on Friday.

  NAVAL WORKS LOANS BILL.
  *SIR CHARLES DILKE: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty when the Naval Works Loans Bill is to introduced?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: The Bill is quite ready, and will be introduced by the Civil Lord at the earliest opportunity after the Jubilee celebrations are over.

  SHEEP SCAB.
  MAJOR RASCH: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to the increase of sheep scab

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  in certain districts of the Eastern Counties; and whether he would cause regulations to be enforced to prevent its spread, particularly with reference to foreign sheep?
  *MR. LONG: There has recently been sonic increase in the number of outbreaks of sheep scab reported from two or three counties in the East of England, but, taking the Eastern Counties as a whole, the present position is not at all unsatisfactory. Where such outbreaks occur it is for the local authority to enforce the requirements of the Sheep Scab Order of 1895, which contains a complete code of regulations on the subject. No. danger of the introduction of the disease by means of foreign sheep now exists, inasmuch as all such sheep are required to be slaughtered at the port of landing.

  PEA THRIPP.
  MAJOR RASCH: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether the Board of Agriculture would issue instructions relative to the treatment of pea thripp, or pea louse, which has recently appeared in the county of Essex?
  *MR. LONG: We have not previously received any complaint as to damage done by the particular insect to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers, but inquiry shall at once be instituted with a view to see whether we can with advantage take any steps in the matter.

  ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS' SUPERANNUATION.
  MR. J. H. YOXALL: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he is able to indicate an approximate date for the introduction of a Bill to establish a State-aided system of superannuation for aged and infirm teachers in Board and Voluntary Schools?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR,)could only say on this subject that which he thought he had already said, that he hoped the Measure would be introduced without any undue delay.

  ADULTERATION OF FOOD PRODUCTS.
  MR. ARTHUR JEFFREYS: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he can now state
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  when he proposes to introduce the Bill dealing with the adulteration of food products?
  MAJOR RASCH: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether the Government can now state when they will introduce a Bill to give effect to the recommendations of the Committee on Food Products Adulteration?
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYsaid he was unable to fix a date, but lie hoped the Bill would be introduced next week or the week after, but he could give no specific pledge.

  REVIEW AT ALDERSHOT.
  Sin J. DICKSON-POYNDERinquired if any arrangements had been made whereby Members could witness the Review at Aldershot?
  MR. BRODRICK: Every Member of the House will be entitled to a free place in the stands which will be erected near the saluting point at the Review on July 1. Special trains will be provided, and transport from Farnborough Station at a cost for each ticket of £1. The free tickets for stands and the train tickets will be non-transferable. Members desiring to obtain a second ticket can have one on payment of 15s. for the stand and £1 for transport. Applications for tickets should be made to Mr. Speaker's Secretary not later than Friday evening next, after which no applications can be entertained. These applications should specify whether railway and transport tickets are required or not. The Review will take place about 5 p.m. About 4,000 seats have been erected for sale to. the general public at prices from 30s. to 15s. each. Applications for the purchase of these tickets should be addressed to the General Officer commanding at Aldershot.

  INTERMEDIATE EDUCATION EXAMINATIONS (IRELAND).
  *MR. W. JOHNSTONasked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether Ids attention had been called to the fact that the Commissioners of Education in Ireland, although they observed the 17th June as a holiday, did not intend to do so on Jubilee Day; and whether he would take steps to cause June 22 to be observed as a holiday in Ireland as in England?
  MR. GERALD BALFOUR: I find that the examinations of the Intermediate Education Board for Ireland extend from Monday 14th June, to Monday 28th June. These dates were fixed so far back as November 1896. I fear it would not now be possible for the Commissioners to consider the question of postponing the examination fixed for to-morrow.

  PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES.
  MR. HENNIKER HEATONasked the Secretary to the Treasury what arrangement had been made for reporting the Parliamentary proceedings next Session, and whether the contract had been let for five years at a price precluding the possibility of the work being done efficiently?
  MR. HANBURY: The contract was, as usual, put up to public competition, and the lowest tender has been accepted. Bonds for a large amount have been offered, and will be taken for the due performance of the contract. The amount of the subsidy is the same as is paid to the present contractors, and in his note giving me private notice of this Question, the lion. Member says that the present contractors give general satisfaction. It is therefore obvious that the rate does not preclude the possibility of an effective Report.
  MR. HENNIKER HEATONsaid, arising out of that reply, he begged to ask his right hon. Friend and evader of the facts whether he was aware that the present contract was carried on at a loss, and only because a large portion of the expense was shared by a powerful and wealthy morning newspaper was it continued to be carried on?
  MR. HANBURY: I am not aware of this.

  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
  In reply to Mr. JAMES LOWTHER (Kent, Thanet),
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYsaid he proposed on Thursday to take Class 5 of the Civil Service Estimates, the Revenue Department Votes, with the exception of the Post Office. On Friday he proposed to take the Scotch Votes. He must reserve any statement with regard to next week for a few days.

  NEW MEMBER SWORN.
  William Graham Nicholson, esquire, for the County of Hants (Eastern or Petersfield Division).
  FRANCHISE AND REMOVAL OF WOMEN'S DISABILITY BILL.
  Second Reading deferred from Wednesday till Wednesday 7th July.
  HIGHWAYS BILL.
  Second Reading deferred from this day till Friday.
  OCCUPYING TENANTS' ENFRANCHISEMENT (PURCHASE OF FEE SIMPLE) BILL.
  Second Reading deferred from this day till Tuesday 27th July.
  OLD AGE PROVIDENT PENSIONS BILL.
  Second Reading deferred from this day till Tuesday 27th July.
  OUTDOOR PROVIDENT RELIEF BILL.
  Second Reading deferred from this day till Tuesday 27th July.
  LABOUR BUREAUX BILL.
  Order for Second Reading [this day] Read, and discharged; Bill withdrawn.
  BUILDING FEUS AND LEASES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Order for Second Reading [this day] Read, and discharged; Bill withdrawn.
  QUEEN'S DIAMOND JUBILEE.

    ADDRESS OF CONGRATULATION TO HER MAJESTY.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR,), rising amid loud cheering from all parts of the House, said: I think, Mr. Speaker, it will be admitted that but

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    very few words are required from me to justify the Motion of which notice appears upon the Paper. We should but very ill-represent the country at large if we remained silent and dumb, or refused to take any part in the chorus of congratulation which is arising from every portion of this vast Empire upon the auspicious anniversary which we are approaching. ["Hear, hear!"] Sir, I think it would be superfluous—I think it might, indeed, be worse than superfluous—were I to attempt to enumerate any of the remarkable changes and events which have so signally distinguished the 60 years of Her Majesty's reign. Great, indeed, those changes have been. You will seldom find comprised within the compass of two generations so many great industrial, scientific, and literary changes—I had almost said revolutions—as have characterised the two generations which have passed since Her Majesty ascended the Throne. ["Hear, hear!"] Sir, the discussion of the characteristics of the. Victorian epoch has occupied enough, perhaps, of public attention and has been made the theme of a sufficient number of speeches and of theses. More interesting is it and more germane to the Resolution which I have the honour to propose, to ask ourselves whether the universal popular instinct is in this case justified which associates, which closely associates, the personality of the Queen with the triumphs which have distinguished her reign. [Cheers.] Sir, there have been great monarchs who, as it were, by force, have stamped upon the people over whom they ruled their sign manual, who have so moulded them that for generations they have borne the impress of what may almost be described as their original creator. Such men, in their time, and in their place, have been among the great benefactors of mankind. But, Sir, there is no room in a society like ours for services of that kind, nor would it be desirable that any monarch should attempt to render such services to a country like our own. ["Hear, hear!"] Nor have the services of Her Majesty been of that character. ["Hear, hear!"] Again, Sir, there have been epochs in which Sovereigns have reigned, and have had prosperous reigns, of whom nevertheless history cannot claim that they bore any share in the important transactions which occurred during their
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    reign of power; whose reigns, therefore, serve but to mark an historical epoch—serve, as it were, but to mark out a special period of chronology. And, again, I say the reign of Her Majesty is not a reign of that description. ["Hear, hear!"] No negation ever excited the passionate devotion and affectionate loyalty which the Queen has inspired in the minds of her subjects. [Cheers.] No, Sir. If to-day this Metropolis of the Empire is crowded by representatives from every continent in the globe—not all of our blood or of our language; men in many cases of a different race and heirs of a different civilisation, but all unanimous, all breathing one spirit of devotion to the Sovereign of these realms —if, Sir, that be the fact, as undoubtedly it is, we may be quite sure that such feelings have not been stirred by an abstraction, and that there is at the bottom of all this personal devotion something which rightly has called that devotion into existence. [Cheers.] Sir, it is true that the reign of Her Majesty has been a reign of unexampled length. It is also true that it has been a reign of unexampled prosperity. Yet, in celebrating this Jubilee, we are not ministering, I believe, to sentiments of national vanity or to vulgar feelings of national complacency, but we are really offering up from our hearts a homage to the great lady who rules over us. [Great cheering.] Sir, if you ask, or if any ask, what are the virtues which have called forth this demonstration, if anybody asks what are the claims to this national regard, I think the answer is not difficult to give. It is because, as the Queen is pre-eminent in station, so she has been pre-eminent in virtue. ["Hear, hear!"] It is because she has so well understood the difficult and delicate tasks which fall to a constitutional monarch to perform, that the constitution of this country has during her reign been able to adapt itself, without friction and without shock, to the varying needs of this great community. It is because through along and laborious life she has been animated by a single view of public duty. ["Hear, hear!"] It is because in her public life she has been an example to every Sovereign, and in her private life an example to every citizen. ["Hear, hear!" and cheers.] It is because she has shared our anxieties and shared our triumphs. It is because

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    she has been throughout animated and inspired by our national ideals, that this nation, and this House as representing this nation, delight to do her honour. [Cheers] It is therefore, Sir, with an absolute confidence that these sentiments, however feebly expressed, are the sentiments common to all who hear me that I beg now to move,—
    "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, to congratulate Her Majesty on the auspicious completion of the 60th year of her happy reign; and to assure Her Majesty that this House profoundly shares the great joy with which her people celebrate the longest, the most prosperous, and the most illustrious reign in their history; joining with them in praying earnestly for the continuance during many years of Her Majesty's life and health."
    [The right hon. Gentleman resumed his seat amid loud cheers from all parts of the House.]
    *SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT: I can hope to add little to the eloquent and graceful terms in which the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House has introduced this Motion, which I rise to second. [Cheers.] I have, indeed, a qualification which he does not possess and which he will not envy me—that I can recall, as if it were to-day, the booming of the guns which announced the accession of the Queen. [Cheers.] It is most right and fitting that an Address of congratulation should be presented to the Sovereign from the House of Commons, which has the highest claim to represent the sentiment of the nation. Since the accession of the Queen this Parliament has been placed upon a still wider basis of representation than that which hailed at her accession. The early reign of the Queen began with a new political epoch, at a period when the real enfranchisement of the people had only recently commenced. It was an era of reform—social, political, financial, and commercial; and indeed there was great need in those days for such reforms. It is only those who can personally recollect what was the condition of the population of this country 60 years ago who can realise the enormous progress and improvement which have been made in the welfare of the people. [Cheers.] We rejoice to-day, and justly rejoice, in the greatness
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    of this Empire, and the extension of the dominions of the Queen. But for the maintenance of such a vast structure there must be solid foundations at the base, and those foundations can only be found in a prosperous and a contented people. [Cheers.] Sir, I am myself able to testify that it was not always so. I can remember when the people of this country were neither prosperous nor contented, when disorder was rife amidst the masses of the population, who were impatient of suffering and intolerant of their miserable lot. Anyone who is acquainted with the social history of this country, I should say, for the first six years of the Queen's reign—from 1837 to 1813—and remembers what the sufferings were in the great towns, and still more perhaps in the rural districts, will be able to form some conception of the marvellous improvement that has taken place in the staple of the nation, in the growth not only of its numbers, but in the health and wealth, in the moral not less than the physical fibre of the people. [Cheers.] That has been above all other things the distinguishing feature, to my mind, of this auspicious reign. A people better fed, better clothed, better housed, better paid, better educated, crime diminished, taxation on the poorer classes lightened—this is the solid base upon which this vast Empire rests. [Cheers.] I can recall the fears of the brave and the follies of the wise, who dreaded lest the extension of popular power might endanger the Constitution of the country. Yet it must be acknowledged that in these sixty years the Queen has given the final sanction to measure after measure of democratic reform, and each extension of popular right has only strengthened the Monarchy and increased the confidence of the people. [Cheers.] Queen Victoria has never feared her people. [Loud cheers.] Decade after decade has passed with a progressive march of popular reforms, and the Sovereign has never been. more trusted or more revered, and, as the right hon. Gentleman well indicated, this enlarged democracy has been peacefully and insensibly incorporated into the framework of an ancient throne. [Cheers.] We celebrate to-day, and gladly celebrate with just pride the gathering of the representatives of our distant colonies. They are communities

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    who went forth instinct with the same love of freedom which was native to their parent State. They carried that spirit beyond the seas, and it has borne the fruit of self-government and of self-reliance. [Cheers.] In this memorable growth of our race and of our Empire there has presided for two generations of men, one figure who has presented to the world the British name with a noble simplicity of greatness which has not been known before, and which will live for ever in the records of this nation. [Cheers.] It has been asked, What has been the office which the Queen has performed? That office has been the supreme tie which bound together various classes and diverse races in these vast dominions, which has held them in one united whole by a Sovereign partaking the spirit of the people, which has gathered them in growing affection around her throne. [Cheers.] The blessing that was invoked by the patriarchs of old was length of days and multitude of offspring. Surely never has a Sovereign been surrounded by a more illustrious progeny, both in her family and in her people. Her subjects are to be found on every shore, and her children's children are established in honour in many a State. As the right hon. Gentleman said, there have been glorious reigns in the great traditions of this land reigns of strife and of storm, of peril and of conquest, but if I might be permitted to affix an adjective, a characteristic of this reign, I should call it a sympathetic reign. [Cheers.] It has appealed to the heart of the nation, and it is the heart of the nation still more than its pride that speaks to-day and addresses Queen Victoria in the sixtieth year of her reign. She has made her people feel that she was the companion of their joy and the partaker of their distress and in all their fortunes—whether ill or good—her sympathies have never been wanting in that touch of nature which makes the whole world kin. [Cheers.] In a sense unknown before, the present Sovereign can be justly called the Mother of her people. In the fulness of her years and of her grace those children gather around her to-day with feelings of filial devotion. [Cheers.] The Queen has passed through bitter sorrows, and none so great as that which took from her the wise counsellor and consort
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    who helped to support her in the burden of her Empire. But in all her desolation she never forgot her care and her duty to the nation. [Cheers.] It is not for me to attempt to portray a character known and admired and loved by all. Those who have served her themselves in any capacity will ever cherish the memory of her gracious kindness, of her upright judgment, of her ripe experience and her constitutional fidelity. [Cheers.] Her public: as her private life has been a lesson to all in every station. The first in virtue as the "first in place," she has added dignity to a mighty throne, and deserved the passionate loyalty of a free people. [Cheers.] She will leave to those who come after her larger dominions and a happier people; but, what is more, she will bequeath to future times the imperishable inheritance of a sovereign example. [Loud cheers.]
    MR. JOHN DILLON, who was received with Irish cheers, said: If this Address were allowed to be passed without a word of protest it would be the act of the united Commons of Great Britain and Ireland, and no Irish representative who desired truly to speak the voice of the great mass of the Irish nation could allow it to be passed without protesting against it. [Irish cheers and Ministerial cries of "Oh!"] They were asked to pass the Address as part mid parcel of the Jubilee and rejoicing for a reign of 60 years, which had undoubtedly brought to the inhabitants of Great Britain and her self-governing Colonies almost limitless and unbounded prosperity and cause of rejoicing; but, as he should presently show, had brought to the country for which he spoke neither prosperity nor peace, nor cause of rejoicing whatever. [Nationalist cheers.] If he sought justification for the course he felt bound to take on behalf of the party for which he was entitled to speak, he should find it in the words: "To assure Her Most Gracious Majesty that this House profoundly shares in the joy with which her people celebrate the most prosperous and most auspicious reign in the history of this nation." He spoke for a section of the House—[ironical Ministerial cheers]—and he asked how could they share in that joy while the nation that had sent them there had been denied throughout the whole of the sixty years of that reign

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    any share in the prosperity or the liberties celebrated that day? The Irish people alone throughout the dominions and Empire of Her Majesty were denied all occasion for rejoicing. Speaking as an Irish representative, he felt bound to oppose this Address because it was part and parcel of a jubilation and rejoicing for sixty years of blessings and prosperity and liberty which had undoubtedly been enjoyed by Great Britain and her Colonies, but which had been throughout the reign persistently denied to Ireland. Paraphrasing the language of the First Lord of the Treasury in moving the Address, the Irish Nationalist Members would ill represent the vast mass of the Irish nation if they abstained from telling them frankly and honestly, and telling Her Majesty, that her Irish subjects did not rejoice, and saw no reason why they should do so. [Nationalist cheers.] He trusted to the catalogue given by the Leader of the Opposition of the great advances made by the populations of Great Britain and the Colonies since Her Majesty came to the Throne, and in every item of the catalogue he noticed that Ireland had gone back instead of having progressed. When the Queen ascended the Throne, Ireland had a population of eight millions. Now she had 4,500,000. Great Britain, when the Queen came to the Throne, had a population of 17 millions, now she had a population of 34 millions, while the population of Great Britain had been doubled her taxation, had been reduced by one-half; while the population of Ireland had been reduced by one half, her taxation had been doubled. He turned to the greatest of all the advances which had been made by the Colonies and Great Britain during the present reign—the advancement made in public liberties. All the nation had been taken within the bounds of the Constitution, and had a voice in the Government of the country. That was the reason Great Britain was so loyal to-day. They had all been reading within the last few days the speeches of the Premiers of self-governing Colonies—Canada, New South Wales, Victoria, and New Zealand. Would the Premier of Canada have been here if Canada had been left in the same position she occupied 60 or 70 years ago? No. At the beginning of the Queen's
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    reign Canada was in rebellion. To Canada they had given liberty, and with that she had built up a structure of prosperity. As regarded Ireland, the past sixty years had been marked, on the contrary, by a progressive denial of liberty. During the reign, 42 Coercion Acts had been passed. [Nationalist cheers and groans.] When the Queen came to the Throne no Minister would have dared to have stood up in that House to propose a perpetual Coercion Act for Ireland. In I887 the Government of the day selected the fiftieth anniversary of Her Majesty's Coronation to fix round the neck of Ireland the badge of perpetual servitude. Yet they were asked to rejoice and take part in the celebration of sixty years' degradation and ruin to Ireland, and to lick the hand that had chastised them. [Nationalist cheers and groans.] For sixty years many thousands had been condemned to gaol as political offenders for no other reason than endeavouring to do their duty by their country. Many men had been cruelly executed under the pretence of law because they had endeavoured to defend the rights of their country. At the present moment there were lying in the gaols of this country political prisoners whom they asked the Government to release on the occasion of the Jubilee as an act of grace, in order, in some degree, to mitigate the bitterness and indignation of the Irish people, and they refused to release them, although the Czar of Russia released a thousand political prisoners when he was crowned. The reign had, moreover, been marked by the cruel, unjust, and monstrous evictions of tens of thousands of people in Ireland, and at that moment thousands of these poor creatures were starving on the roadsides. [Ministerial cries of "Oh!" and Nationalist cheers.] Through bad laws, badly administered, famine had become enterdemic, and one of the ordinary events of life. The Nationalist Party had decided that in view of the deep-seated feeling of the Irish nation, they could have neither lot nor part in passing this Address. They had decided to move no Amendment to the Address, nor could they support any Amendment, and they felt that the best method by which they could give expression to what they believed to be the feelings of the

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    people was to vote against the adoption of the Address. To-morrow, through the streets of that great world city there would pass a mighty procession—[Ministerial, cheers]—to celebrate what he fully and frankly acknowledged the people of this country and its Colonies were fully entitled to celebrate as a great national feast and occasion for rejoicing, and in that procession there would be representatives of their free self-governing Colonies and others loyal to Her Majesty. The Army and the Navy would be represented, and most of the Crowned Heads of Europe. How would -Ireland be represented—by the Royal Irish Constabulary—[Ministerial cheers and Nationalist cries of"Police!"]—fitly represented by a force which had no other justification for its existence but to suppress and keep down the people of Ireland, and whose chief occupation in the past hail been to assist in burning and pulling down their roof trees. They would ride close behind the carriage of the Sovereign—the only representatives of the Irish nation who would grace the procession, the only official representatives of the Irish nation. He had stated the attitude of the Nationalist Party and of the Irish nation. This was a great and mighty Empire, but Ireland, by the operations of the British Government, had been reduced to the position of an impoverished, diminished, and weak nation. They could conquer by force, and continue to keep in poverty and misery the nation to which he belonged, and for which he spoke, but they could not by Coercion Acts conquer the hearts of the Irish people or compel them to join in the present rejoicing. [Nationalist cheers.]
    MR. JOHN REDMONDsaid he rose to endeavour to reduce to action the sentiments to which the hon. Gentleman had just given utterance. [Ministerial laughter.] He had no fault to find with the pictures which had been drawn of the benefits which had accrued to the people of the Empire generally during the present reign, which would be remembered, not merely as the longest, but probably as the greatest reign in English history. The advances which had been made were undoubtedly without parallel in the story of the nations, and he did not for a moment
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    wonder at the enthusiasm with which this Jubilee celebration was being carried out. Had he been an Englishman, a Canadian, or an Australian, he should have been only too proud of the opportunity of celebrating the increase in prosperity and freedom, but he belonged to a part of the Empire to which the blessings of prosperity and freedom had been a closed book. Much as he personally disliked uttering any jarring note which might be considered even by some friends of Ireland as ungracious or ill-timed, he felt bound in the interests of truth to say that at this moment, while other parts of the Empire were proud, prosperous, and free, Ireland stood at their door in poverty and subjection, sullen and disaffected. He knew that on such occasions as this men were naturally anxious to shut their eyes to any discreditable fact, to any black spot that might, perhaps, spoil the beauty of the picture; but this was a great historical occasion, and in the interests of truth and justice alike they were bound, as Irish representatives, to place it upon record that during the past 60 years Ireland had suffered grievously in her prosperity and liberty, and was to-day in no mood to celebrate those great blessings which had been scattered broadcast throughout the rest of the Empire. British Members might possibly be inclined to resent the introduction of this topic at all, but there was no responsible man amongst them of any party who could deny the substantial truth, of what he was saying. [Cries of "Oh!"] In his view it was far better for England, as well as Ireland, that the truth should not be hidden. The three great achievements of this reign were, first, the extension of representative institutions and the broadening of popular liberties all over the Empire; secondly, the enormous and extraordinary increase in population and wealth, arid the decrease of taxation; and, thirdly, the spread of peace and contentment amongst the subjects of the Empire. What share had Ireland had in any one of these blessings? While representative institutions had been given to the colonies, and the people of Great Britain had had their popular rights and liberties extended year by year, Ireland had been constantly subjected to exceptional and repressive legislation. As had been pointed

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    out by the hon. Gentleman who preceded him, there had been a Coercion Act of some kind or other for Ireland; some of these Acts had suspended trial by jury; others had suppressed the freedom of speech, or of the Press, and all of them, in one shape or another, abrogated the constitution under which Ireland was supposed to live. There had been two unsuccessful insurrections, and their prisons had never for one moment been without Irish political prisoners within their walls. [Irish, cheers.] He had hoped up to the last moment that an opportunity would have been found, as an act of grace, to release the few remaining prisoners in Portland Prison. There were only five of them left, and every man who was a leader of the conspiracy with which they were alleged to be connected had been released. At this moment in Ireland there was a statute in force under which trial by jury, personal liberty, freedom of speech and of the Press, were all vested in one man, who was absolutely irresponsible so far as the Irish people were concerned. The great mass of the people themselves were undoubtedly disaffected with the system of rule under which, they lived. While this country had been prospering, Ireland had been starving; her industries were dead—killed by the legislation of that Parliament; her population bad diminished by one-half; chronic famine haunted the home of her western seaboard; and one terrible visitation swept millions of her people out of existence. While the wealth of this country had quadrupled, and the taxation per bead had been reduced by about two-thirds, Ireland had had no increase of wealth, her population had diminshed by four millions, and her taxation per head had been doubled. These were facts which could not be ignored, and in the name of those whom he represented he felt compelled to say that Ireland to-day stood apart altogether from the Jubilee celebration, and asked first to have her liberty restored. He begged to move, at the end of the Question, to add the words,—
    "But this House represents to Her Majesty that this House deems it its duty to place upon record the fact that during the sixty years of Her Majesty's reign Ireland has suffered grievously from famine, depopulation, and poverty, and from the continued suspension of
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    her constitutional liberties, with the result that the Irish people are to-day discontented and disaffected, and are unable to join in the celebration of the sixtieth year of Her Majesty's reign."
    MR. J. O'KELLYsaid that Ireland refused to join in this celebration. When the Division on this Address took place it would be found that the whole of the National representation of Ireland had voted against it. It might be a light matter to the rest of the House that the Irish representatives should not take part in the proceedings to-morrow; but the action of the Irish Members meant more than appeared on the surface. It was a reign that when the day came, which he believed was not far distant, when they would have to fight for their Empire, the Irish Members would stand aside—[Irish cheers]—and some of them would not be content with standing aside. [Renewed Irish, cheers.] The Colonies were loyal because they were free; the Irish were disloyal because they were not free, and they were proud of their disloyalty. [Irish, cheers.] They never should be loyal—[Ministerial laughter]—until justice was done them —[Irish cheers]—and they had returned to them the liberties which by force had been taken from them. He begged to second the Amendment. [Irish cheers.]
    COLONEL SAUNDERSONsaid that in ordinary circumstances he should not have thought it worth while to detain the House, because he looked upon the Amendment as one of those recurring symptoms of chronic disloyalty that existed among a certain class of Irishmen. But this was not an ordinary occasion. It was one unique in the history of the country—he ventured to say it was unique in the history of any country in the world. The greatest Empire the world had ever seen had spontaneously manifested its devotion and loyalty to the person of the Sovereign of this country, whose reign had been so distinguished for freedom and justice. Only one jarring note occurred in this short universal hymn of praise. Only one string was out of tune, and that string was twanged by an Irish hand. Hon. Gentlemen opposite had assumed to speak in the name of the Irish nation, but he also spoke in the name, at any rate, of a very considerable portion of the Irish nation who were as

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    loyal to the Crown as any to be found in any part of Her Majesty's wide dominions. [Cheers.] The hon. Gentleman who had just sat down apparently felt the difficulty of the position in which he was placed in raising this note in the midst of the general harmony. Well, he did not wonder that the hon. Gentleman felt the difficulty, for, in order to justify his action the lion. Gentleman should have had an overwhelming ease to make out before the House to justify his act; but the justification of both the hon. Member for Waterford and the hon. Member for East Mayo simply consisted in broad assertions which they had never attempted to prove. [Irish cries of dissent.] They stated that the liberty of the subject in Ireland was curtailed and interfered with in a way that no other subjects of the Crown had to submit to; but, as a matter of fact, the liberty only was interfered with of those who desired to commit murder and crime, whilst the liberty of well-disposed citizens in Ireland was not touched in the slightest degree. [Cheers.] Then the hon. Members had told them that they would not take part in the Jubilee rejoicings or in the loyal Address, because they said that during the GO years of Her Majesty's reign, Ireland had been starved and had been in misery. He contended that that was a libel upon Irishmen, and those who bad asserted it had given no figures at all to prove their case. ["Hear, hear!"] Ireland, he submitted, was wealthier now that when Her Majesty came to the Throne. She was more prosperous than she had ever been, and her social condition was infinitely superior now than at any time within the present generation. When the Queen Caine to the Throne there were in Ireland, he believed, seven miles of railways; now there were 3,000 miles. The fact that the population had decreased in the period did not prove anything, as a large population in a small country was not usually productive of prosperity. Sixty years ago indeed Ireland was one huge congested district. Moreover, then there were only 1,381 schools, attended by 169,000 pupils, receiving a grant from Parliament of 150,000; whilst in 1895 there were 8,550 schools, with 1,018,000 pupils, and a Parliamentary grant of £1,138,000. In 1849 there was in deposit banks in Ireland a little over seven millions; now
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    there were 39 millions; and in tins Post Office Savings Bank in 1863 there were £143,000, and now there were £5,919,000. [Cheers.] Irish Members on the other side of the House would not join in Her Majesty's Jubilee. The only part they would take was to take tickets for the Parliamentary stand. [Loughter.] It was said that the population of Ireland had decreased. Well, so it had; but why blame Her Majesty or the authorities of this country for that? The reason was because the means of locomotion had been increased —[laughter]— and Irishmen would not stop in Ireland in a condition of comparative poverty when they could do better elsewhere. At the present time he was glad to say there were signs that the decreasing of the Irish population had ceased, and his opinion was that Ireland was on the rising grade. ["Hear, hear!"] These assertions of decreased prosperity and great starvation had no foundation whatever in fact; and he could only see in the attitude of the Irish Party a manifestation which, to his mind, need never have been made by lion. Gentlemen—a manifestation of the chronic hatred and disloyalty to this country which loyalists had always asserted, and which he thought the Irish Party had never denied. [Cheers.] He spoke in the name of at least one-third of the Irish people, and he ventured to say, in supporting the Address to the Crown, that he was expressing the views of men in Ireland of every creed who were the most strongly attached in their devotion to the Queen. Surely it was going out of their way for hon. Gentlemen to do this ungracious act towards a noble lady, and it was to his mind totally foreign and alien to the Irish character. [Loud cheers.] If they did not intend taking part in the Jubilee proceedings they should simply have remained away, being perfectly persuaded in their own minds that no one who know them would ever accuse them of any feeling of loyalty to the Crown. [Laughter and cheers.] That section of the Irish people for whom he had a right to speak had, he thought, shown in the past ten years that they, at any rate, were able to hold their own. [Cheers.] The majority of the House would agree with him when he said—and he believed history would record it—

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    that had it not been for the stand taken by the Irish Loyalists, the Queen to-morrow would not have celebrated a reign over a United Empire. [Cheers, and Nationalist laughter.] As an Irishman, he regretted that the Amendment had been moved. As an Irish Loyalist he rejoiced at it. The only people who ever objected to his assertion of the disloyalty of hon. Members opposite were to be found in Radical ranks, and he should hope now that no one would get up and speak about the "union of hearts." ["Hear, hear!"] There had been a jarring note struck—but microscopic in dimensions and it only tended to emphasise, to broaden, to deepen that mighty tone which had reverberated round the world, and which told the nations in unmistakable words of the unity, the solidity, and the might of the greatest and the freest Empire the world had ever seen. [Loud cheers.]
    Question put, "That those words be there added."
    The House divided: Ayes, 7; Noes, 436. (Division List, No. 240.)
    The numbers were received with loud Ministerial cheers.
    The main Question having been put from the Chair, a Division was challenged by the Nationalist Members.
    The House divided: —Ayes, 459; Noes, 44.—(Division List, No. 241.)
    Resolved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, to congratulate Her Majesty on the auspicious completion of the sixtieth year of Her happy reign, and to assure Her Majesty that this House profoundly shares the great joy with which Her people celebrate the longest, the most prosperous, and the most illustrious reign in their history, joining with them in praying earnestly for the continuance during many years of Her Majesty's life and health.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY moved, "That the said Address be presented to Tier Majesty by the whole House."
    MR. J. J. CLANCY: After what has taken place this Motion is an absurdity, for it is quite plain that
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    Members representing Nationalist constituencies will not take part in the presentation of this Address. Therefore a Motion declaring that the whole House presents this Address would amount to an absolute untruth. If the Motion is not amended to meet this objection, I shall certainly vote against it.
    *MR. SPEAKERput the Question, and the Nationalist Members challenged a Division.
    Question put a second time.
    *MR. SPEAKERstated that he thought the Ayes had it; and on his decision being challenged, it appeared to him that the Division was frivolously claimed, and he directed the Noes to stand up in their places.
    All the Irish. Members present on the Opposition side having risen,
    *MR. SPEAKERnamed Tellers for a Division.
    The House divided: —Ayes, 411; Noes, 41.—(Division List, No. 242.)
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY moved,—
    "That such Members of this House as are of Her Majesty's most honourable Privy Council do humbly know Her Majesty's pleasure when she will be attended by this House with the said Address."
    Motion agreed to.
    SIR J. FERGUSSON: May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, as a great difference of opinion exists in the House on the subject, what dress hon. Members are expected to wear on the occasion of this Address being presented? I should also like to ask you for your advice, and for the expression of your wish as to whether hon. Members should proceed to the Palace in carriages or on foot?
    *MR. SPEAKER: As it is more than 36 years since an Address was presented to Her Majesty by the whole House, perhaps it would be convenient if I were to refer to the two points raised by the right hon. Baronet's Question. [Cheers.] As regards dress, I understand it is usual for Members to go to

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    the Palace in morning dress, except that Privy Councillors usually wear levee dress. As regards the mode of arriving at the Palace, shortly after prayers I shall proceed through' St. Stephen's Hall and Westminster Hall to New Palace Yard, followed by hon. Members, and thence drive at a walking pace to Buckingham Palace. I believe it has been usual for the bulk of hon. Members to follow on foot. [Cheers.] Those hon. Members, however, who wear levee dress frequently go in carriages. Of course, all hon. Members are at liberty if they choose to use carriages. I may add that going on foot very materially facilitates the ingress to and egress from the Palace. After Her Majesty has received the Address I shall return directly to the House and report to the House Her Majesty's gracious answer to the Address. Afterwards, in accordance with the Motion about to be put, I shall adjourn the House at once without question put.

    ADJOURNMENT THE HOUSE.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY moved,—
    "That this House at its rising do adjourn till Wednesday next, that on Wednesday the House do meet at a Quarter past Two of the clock, and that Mr. Speaker, so soon as he has reported Her Majesty 8 gracious answer to the Address, do adjourn the Douse without question put."
    Motion agreed to.

  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

    GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY moved,—
    "That, for the remainder of the Session, Government business do have precedence on Tuesday and Wednesday (except on Wednesday, June 30, and Wednesday, July 7), and that the provisions of Standing Order 56 be extended to the other days of the week."
    He said the Motion would hardly require justification to the minds of hon. Members who had followed the course of business during the present Session. They had reached a period of the Session at
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    which it was usual for the Government to take the time of the House. With reference to the two Wednesdays which were excepted in the Resolution, he reminded the House that, by the Standing Orders, privileges were given on Wednesdays to private Bills which had made a certain amount of progress during the earlier part of the Session, and it seemed to him that the Standing Order would be entirely stultified if the exceptions in question were not allowed. He thought, however, the justice of the case would be met and precedent followed if the two Wednesdays named were put aside. That, he hoped, would be sufficient justification to hon. Members both for the time the Government proposed to take and that which they did not propose to take, and without further preface he begged to move the Motion which stood in his name.
    MR. CRILLYasked whether the Committee stages of those private Bills would be taken as well as the Third Reading?
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYsaid the Government had no control over the Bills which would be put down. That depended on the Standing Order, the whole matter being automatically arranged.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.

  EDUCATION (SCOTLAND) [GRANTS].
  Considered in Committee.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. GRAHAM MURRAY,)*THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. GRAHAM MURRAY, Buteshire) moved,—
  "That it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of moneys to be provided by Parliament, (a) of an addition to the grant payable to School Boards in Scotland under the proviso to Section 67 of the Education (Scotland) Act, 1872, by increasing the sum of seven shillings and sixpence therein mentioned by fourpence for every complete penny by which the School Rate therein mentioned exceeds threepence, provided that the said sum as so increased shall not exceed sixteen shillings and sixpence; (b) of an Aid Grant to Voluntary Schools in Scot-. land not exceeding three shillings per child for the whole number of children in average attendance in those schools."

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  The right hon. Gentleman said: At the time the two Bills were passed dealing with education in England, the Chancellor of the Exchequer said provision would be made for an analogous purpose in the case of Scotland. Consequently this Resolution was the foundation for the Bill dealing with this subject which. I can explain briefly. It embraces one Bill, whereas there were two Bills in the case of England. The 67th Clause of the Education Act of 1872, which dealt with the case of what may be called necessitous Board Schools—necessitous because the rate did not produce very much—is really exactly a similar clause to that in the English Act. Accordingly this Bill proposes, in the case of Scotland, to give precisely the same advantage as in the case of England—that is to say, where the 3d. rate does not amount to a total of £20, or an average of 7s. 6d. per child, there is to be a sliding scale by the sum of 4d. for every complete ld., but not beyond the maximum of 16s. 6d. The whole matter is so fresh in the memory of the Committee in the discussion on the English Bill that I need not say any more. It is a sliding scale precisely the same as in the English Bill. I come to the second part; it is giving the same aid to Voluntary Schools in Scotland. The Voluntary Schools in Scotland do not occupy the same position as in England in regard to mangement, but it was felt that they also were entitled to be treated in an analogous way to England. The Committee will notice that the sum asked is a capitation grant of 3s. per head per child, whereas in the English Bill it was 5s. That difference is due to the fact that the Scottish child gets 2s. more than an English child. Let hon. Members dismiss from their minds what children earn under the Code—that is another question altogether. We are here dealing with the fee grant for free education. I may recall to the Committee what is the history of this question. The history is this. In 1889, when a certain amount of local taxation was intercepted and handed to local bodies in England, a corresponding sum, which was calculated at 11 to 80 was handed to Scotland, and was devoted to education. The calculation at that time was made according to the amount of money
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  which was got. It was found that, taking the attendance as it was, and the amount of money available, it allowed a capitation grant of 12s. per head. The education at that time was not freed in all the standards. In 1891, when another provision was made, and an additional sum of £40,000, which was calculated, not as a balance, but as a fixed sum, was handed to Scotland to free the other two standards, we came to the situation that existed before there had been free education granted to England, and the provision of free education had been made upon the calculation of 10s. per head. In 1892, by the Education Local Taxation Act, there was effected a change between these two moneys. The money available used for the purpose of education under the Act of 1889 was diverted and applied to other purposes, such as to County Councils, and for purposes of general utility. After certain fluctuations as to practice, into which I need not go. Scotland now gets from the Imperial Exchequer precisely what England gets. We get a capitation grant of 10s.; but then hon. Members will remember that in the meantime there was the sum of £40,000, and certain savings out of the balances that had accumulated under the Act of 1889, so that de facto the Scottish child has always been getting 12s. I am glad to state we have persuaded my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to say that for the future that shall go on, although it is not in the Bill. I cannot avoid touching on that, because it is part of the whole policy of the Government. The right hon. Gentleman has assured us for the future this 12s. shall be paid, and over and above we shall get such sum as will enable us to go on paying the 12s. You must take it as a matter of fact that a Scottish child gets 2s. more than the children in the Voluntary Schools in England. I hope hon. Members from this will understand the Bill, which they will be better able to criticise when they see it.
  SIR H CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid the right hon. Gentleman had omitted one fact of considerable interest, the amount of money to the Board and Voluntary Schools.
  THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid the total estimated grant under the new

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  Necessitous Board Schools schemes would be £42,000. The present grant was about £13,000, so there would be an increase of over £28,000. The 3s. grant to the Voluntary Schools would be a little over £12,000. The cost of keeping up the 12s. capitation grant would come to about £26,000.
  SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid, of course, as the right hon. Gentleman had said, it was very difficult for Members to judge of the scheme until they could see the Bill in print, and with all the right hon. Gentleman's usual clearness, and the knowledge Members should have of what took place four or five years ago, it was a little difficult to follow the statement. Therefore he wished to reserve entirely the expression of his opinion on the merits of the scheme. But of one thing there could be no doubt, the amount was not so large as the Scottish people expected to receive on this occasion. ["Hear!"] It might be true that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with the ingenuity of those who would assist him at the Treasury, would make out that Scotland was receiving more than she ought to receive, but Scotchmen started with a view of the question front the other side. Scotland had always been ahead of England in this matter of education, spending more money proport Tonally on, and requiring more money for, education. They Wished to avoid in Scotland playing down, so to speak to the English level, and he hoped above all that in any calculations made it had not been put against their side of the account that Scottish children hid earned more under similar conditions than English children had. He had seen the question sometimes treated in this manner; but their view of the matter was that if their children did earn more under similar conditions than English children, it was because of greater zeal in learning and greater attention in teaching.
  THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid they did earn more, but the fact did not enter into the figures he had given.
  SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANwas glad to hear that, but it did sometimes figure in argument, and was used to add to the moral weight of objections to Scotland's claim. As he had said, at this stage of the proceedings they could
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  do very little. They had received the explanation, which would be considered by Scottish representatives and all interested in the matter in Scotland, and when they came to see the Bill in print they would be better able to judge how far the scheme would be beneficial and adequate for its purpose. There had been expectations in Scotland that the grant for education would he larger on this occasion. No one could say of the proposal that it was Jubilee gift to the cause of Scottish education. They would have been glad to have seen a much larger sum, and in saying that he believed he could include Scottish opinion without reference to party politics. Education was the one subject upon which the Scottish people were entirely united and had been for generations or even centuries, and from which politics were excluded. There was rivalry among all sections in favour of higher education for the youth of Scotland, and it was not simply because the proposal came front Her Majesty's Government that he gave indication of the objection (hat would arise. But they would see what the scheme was when they Intl the Bill in print, and lie now contented himself with expressing the dissatisfaction he was sure would be felt in Scotland.
  SIR C. CAMERONsaid there was some difficulty in understanding what the entire sum amounted to.
  THE LORD ADVOCATErepeated the figures, £66,450.
  SIR C. CAMERONsaid it was desirable there should be some further explanation of the differential treatment of denominational schools. The right hon. Gentleman had explained the reasons why they were not to get the 5s. grant given in England; but he doubted very much whether those reasons would be considered adequate. He was against the principle of the endowment of denominational schools; but if the grant was to be made for dealing with this matter, which was not so much a burning question as it was in England, then it would be much more statesmanlike to deal with it in such a manner as would satisfy those who were in favour of denominational education and not in a less generous manner than it had been dealt with in England. No

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  doubt very considerable attention would be directed to that part of the proposition, and it appeared to him that £66,000 was an amount very considerably below what Scotland would be entitled to on the basis of an equivalent grant.
  DR. CLARKwas disappointed with the statement of the Lord Advocate, and thought the right hon. Gentleman had scarcely been accurate as to the facts. So far as the question of equivalency was concerned, only one method of computation had been followed until the present Government came into power, and made a change. In every one of the Acts passed, in every one of the grants given from the time they had assisted education until the present Government came into power Scotland always got 11–80ths of the English grant, and there had been no fluctuation at all; every grant was based on the original Act of 11–80ths; but if now a change was to be made by the present Government without any Act of Parliament, but as a matter of administration, then Scotland should get back all she had lost in the past by the system hitherto followed. Scotland had always received 11–80ths, because it was very much less than 10s. a head would have been; but as a result of English Education. Votes growing so fast, 11–80ths was more than 10s. per child Scotland would be, and now the Government proposed to give 10s. a head because the amount would be about £5,000 less than under the 11–80ths. If the system must be so charged, then Scotland should receive some £30,000 or £40,000 of which she had been robbed under the old Acts. There had been one system under three Governments, and now when the result would be bad for Scotland, a change was proposed, and in the usual way the Treasury was trying to "chisel" Scotland. The Voluntary Schools so called in Scotland, were, outside the Catholic Schools, a miserably small minority. A splendid thing was done for education when the Church of Scotland and the Free Church handed over their schools to the School Boards. There were possibly some 80 or 90 Episcopal schools and some 250 Catholic schools, the Board Schools numbering between 2,000 and 3,000. The position was wholly different to
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  that in England, and yet it was proposed to apply the same principle. Of course it was usual for the predominant partner to rob its weaker Scotch partner. By an equivalent grant Scotland would receive much more than under the grant to Voluntary Schools. He did not know to what extent the Necessitous School Boards' Bill would affect Scotland. Probably outside the unfortunate necessitous districts Scotland would not be affected at all. The explanation of the Lord Advocate was very unsatisfactory. The Treasury was again trying to rob Scotland by the change from the 11–80ths. When 10s. a head was given in England, Scotch Members contended for the same for Scotland; but in 1888–9 the Treasury refused this, because the amount would have been a few thousands more, and began the system of equivalent grants; but now when that system was to the advantage of Scotland, the Treasury proposed to change it. On the Second Reading of the Bill, discussion would expose the unfairness of the proposal.
  *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS BEACH,)desired a few words of explanation in reply to the accusation that the Treasury was proposing to rob Scotland. The system of equivalent grants for free education had been found impracticable from the beginning. Scotch Members objected to it, and said it would be better to have the same grant as in England, 10s. per child. As years went on it was found almost impossible to calculate what the fee grant would be in Scotland, for the system led to the absurd result that the amount Scotland received for free education was based not on Scotch necessities, not on the number of children in schools in Scotland, but on the number of children in English schools, and as it was impossible to know how many children had attended schools in England until after the close of the year, so nobody could tell the amount to which Scotland would be entitled until it was too late to pay. When the Government came into office he looked carefully into the matter, consulted with his colleagues, took the advice of the Law Officers, and came to the conclusion to adopt the principle of giving to Scotland and England the same grant of 10s. per child.

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  So that in the current year, and in future, what Scotland would receive for the fee grant would be what her children earned, and nothing would depend upon England. The hon. Member for Caithness said that in doing this they were cheating Scotland out of what she was entitled to. They had done nothing of the kind. They had undertaken to do for Scotland what they had dime for Ireland—namely, to hand over to Scotch education as much as Scotland would have received if 10s. per child had been the basis adopted since the Free Education Act; and further, having adopted the basis of the necessary expenditure for education in Scotland rather than that of an equivalent grant with regard to Free Education, they had also adopted it in regard to this Bill. As his right hon. Friend had explained, they had adopted the identical clause with regard to necessitous Board Schools which had been passed for England, and they had adopted the clause with regard to Voluntary Schools with the exception that they had given 3s. per head instead of 5s. for the reason which the Lord Advocate had explained.
  DR. CLARK: There are practically no Voluntary Schools in Scotland.
  *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid that might be so, but why were they required to do more for Scotland than had been done for England? It was not a question of equivalent grants at all. It was a question of dealing with a system of education and paying what was necessary for the education of the children. That was the system which had been adopted with regard to free education, and it was the only system, he ventured to say, on which it would be found practically possible to work. If hon. Members for Scotland thought it was not well that this money should be devoted to this purpose, that was another matter altogether on which it was not his business to dwell; but he thought his right hon. Friend would be perfectly able to defend his Bill. As far its regarded the amount of the grant, he ventured to contend that the history of the Free Education Act had shown that the basis of equivalent grants, as applied to education, was practically and absolutely impossible—["hear hear!"] —and that the oily way in winch the matter could properly be dealt with was the basis which
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  they had adopted in this Bill of enacting for Scotland, if it were right to enact for Scotland, what had been enacted for England and paying the cost of it.
  MR. J. BRYCEsaid he would not follow the Chancellor of the Exchequer into the very interesting history of the fee grant and the way in winch the system of equivalent grants had been proved to be misapplicable to it. If he did, he should probably be obliged to admit with him that there was grave doubt as to the way in which it worked; but he did not think that that really met at all the objection entertained to the proposal of the Government. What were the facts of the case? The proposal of the Government was to apply what was called an identic method to Scotland and England—that was to say, to give them the same grant under similar terms which was given to necessitous Beard Schools in England under the Act or this Session, and similarly to give a grant to Voluntary Schools in England. Under this proposal, as he understood from the Lord Advocate, Scotland would receive £40,000 more than she received now. If she received the money under the principle of the equivalent grant, she would have received £110,000. ["Hear, hear"] The total sum which he believed was payable under the two English Acts of this Session was, in the case of one, a little more than £600,000, and in the case of the other, about £200,000 a year. That was a little more than £800,000. On the principle of 80 to 11, that, would give to Scotland £110,000. It would at once strike the Committee that there must be some reason for this curious disparity in the operation of the identical principle. There must be some curious cause at work introducing a difference between education in England and in Scotland to account for the great differences between £110,000 and £40,000. There was such a phenomenon. It was this, that, more than half the children in English elementary schools were educated in Voluntary Schools, and that a mere handful of the children in Scotch elementary schools were educated in Voluntary Schools. The enormous mass of Scotch children were educated in Board Schools, and therefore they had the result that a grant which would

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  have been £110,000 if the countries had been alike, was scaled down to a grant of £40,000, because the countries were different. That was what, to their mind, appeared to produce a practical injustice. ["Hear hear!"] It was a practical injustice owing to the fact that Scotland preferred the Board School system and England so far contented herself with what was mainly a voluntary system. The result of the difference was that the Scotch taxpayer contributed to the education of England a proportion of £800,000, and the English taxpayer contributed to the education of Scotland only £40,000. It was clear, therefore, that that inflicted upon the taxpayers of Scotland a very severe financial injustice. The identity of treatment which the Lord Advocate spoke of, although it promised much to the eye and ear, fulfilled nothing in reality. It was in point of fact treatment which was identic only in name, because the circumstances of the two countries were so different that apparent equality produced substantial injustice. ["Hear, hear!"]
  MR. PARKER SMITHsaid he was afraid this proposal would be regarded in Scotland as extremely unsatisfactory. For his part he had no love whatever for the equivalent grant, but they must have some sort of justice in the amount of the grant, even though the kind of machinery which was tried in the first place had turned out to be quite unsatisfactory. There was a great deficiency in what, he thought, the people of Scotland might expect to receive in correspondence with what had been given to English education. There had already been pointed out the very great difference in position of the Voluntary Schools in Scotland and in England, and that the grant to Voluntary Schools in Scotland would be almost entirely a sectional grant. Except perhaps in the case of the Roman Catholic, the Voluntary Schools in Scotland were not, as in England, regarded as an institution to which the people were greatly attached, and he though the expenditure upon them would be by no means regarded in Scotland as being a satisfactory way of disposing of a portion of their share of the equivalent grant. There were other forms of education for which they very
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  greatly wanted money, even if they got all their 12s. They had been ahead of England in the expenditure of money upon education, and they very badly wanted money in respect of higher education, and in respect of secondary and technical education. They ought to receive in correspondence with the grant to England a larger amount of money, which could and would be spent with very great advantage on secondary and technical education.
  MR. J. CALDWELLsaid there would be a general feeling of dissatisfaction in Scotland with regard to the amount. There could be no question whatever that in this matter Scotland was entitled to 11–80ths of the English share of the grant, which would have given them a sum of £100,000. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had referred to the 10s. grant per head which was given in 1892. At that time he strongly contended that Scotland ought to get 10s. per head the same as in England, which would have given them £4,000 or £5,000 a year more. The then Chancellor of the Exchequer objected and said the proper principle was the equivalent grant, which gave them £4,000 or £5,000 less. Then they got free Education in England which swelled up the attendance so considerably that the balance was changed, and the result would have been that Scotland, paid on the equivalent grant principle, would have got £4,000 or £5,000 more. But when that principle turned in favour of Scotland the Treasury said they would give 10s. per head the same as they gave in England. He had no doubt the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be just enough to give Scotland what was her due notwithstanding the change of principle, but he was pointing out what was the effect of the change of principle. With regard to the Voluntary Schools in Scotland, he would point out that they got the 12s. grant at this moment, but they were not getting more than 10s. per head out of the Imperial Exchequer, the other 2s. coming out of Scotch money pure and simple. He thought a word must be said in favour of these Voluntary Schools in Scotland. With regard to the Voluntary Schools, a word must be said in their favour. The circumstances under which they had to compete in Scotland were essentially

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  different from the circumstances in England. For instance, the compulsory standard was the fifth all over Scotland. Then the age at which children must attend school was 14 in Scotland as against 13 in England. Was it not obvious, therefore, that Voluntary Schools in Scotland had more children to educate than similar schools in England? Why in England one-fourth of the school children — 1,300,000 — were infants; and then they had but a small proportion of older children. But in Scotland the children had to remain until they were 14 or had passed the fifth standard; so that the average number of older boys and girls in Scotch Voluntary Schools was much larger, and the expense was much greater per head. Both in the Board Schools and in the Voluntary Schools, the cost was higher than in England, owing to the higher age and the higher standard, and the necessity for keeping up a superior staff. Then mark this difference. In England the education given was elementary—the word "elementary" was in their Act; but in Scotland it was not merely elementary education, it was an education that fitted for the University. That being so, the English schools being purely elementary and the Scotch giving secondary education in every parish school, the Voluntary Schools had to compete with them, and how could they compete if they were not to be paid at least the same rate per scholar as in England, where the schools were doing purely elementary work? They ought, at least, to get the 5s. per head given in England, because relatively the present 12s. which cattle to them was not so much as the 10s. presented to the elementary schools in England. The sum of money they ought to get would be altogether about £110,000, that would be the sum Scotland ought to get as a fair equivalent for what was given to England out of the Imperial purse.. For, after all, what were they doing? They were taking money out of the Imperial purse, to which Scotland contributed as well as England. It was admitted that Scotland contributed 11–80ths to the Imperial purse; and if they were going to give a certain dole to England on the one side, Scotland must get an equivalent dole on the other. And then the money should be applied
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  in the way most suited to Scotland's educational interests, having regard to her special circumstances. For these reasons he certainly complained that the money given to Scotland, the total sum, was grossly inadequate; and then, as, regarded the Voluntary Schools, he said that under the peculiar circumstances under which the Voluntary Schools were placed, they ought to get the 5s. a head as in England. As to other points in the Bill, he, of course, reserved his criticism until it was printed. All he dealt with at present was the financial question, the fact that they were only getting about £66,000, according to the official statement, but according to their own statement only £40,000; and that, even if they did get £66,000, it was a long way short of the £110,000 which was Scotland's equivalent.
  THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid the principle of a proportional equivalent grant had really nothing to do with the question of education. He could not allow the figures of the hon. Member for Aberdeen to pass unchallenged, because if they took his point of view of an equivalent grant they would have to take the same view of the whole situation. The hon. Member for Aberdeen drew this fancy picture. He said the cost to the Imperial taxpayer under the English Bill was so much, and the equivalent under a Scotch Bill ought to be £110,000, but they were being given only £40,000. The hon. Member had exaggerated, because if they took the 11–80ths of the cost under the English Bill it would be £80,000, not £110,000. [Mr. BRYCE: "Both Bills!"] Then he said, "You are oily giving us £40,000." To that must be added £26,000, which was given—outside the Bill, no doubt, but it was given all the same—to keep up the grant to 12s. The hon. Member who had just spoken did not seem to know that the money out of which that 2s. was paid was now exhausted, and accordingly, if the Chancellor of the Exchequer did nothing for them, they would not be able in future to pay the Scotch schools more than the 10s. per child which they now got directly, as in England. The additional 2s. had been paid in the past out of savings on the probable grant. But these savings were now eaten up, so that unless they got this £20,000 in the future from the Chancellor of the

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  Exchequer they could not make up the grant. But there was also this view of the case. If they complained from the point of view of the Scotch taxpayer, that so much was being contributed out of the Imperial purse and the Scotch equivalent of that was £100,000, then they must take a. view of the whole situation—they must look at the whole of the grant. They would find that the Scotch child earned 2s. 7d. more than the English. He had not worked out the capital SUM that represented, but it was enough to show that the picture drawn by the hon. Member for Aberdeen was not a true picture of the whole situation.
  MR. CALDWELLsaid the reason why the Scotch child earned more than the English child was because he was an older child, and there were more in the upper standards. He wondered whether the Lord Advocate would work out this problem—it was worth working out; namely, what would be the effect of applying to Scotland the English mode of distributing the grant? Take the Scotch mode and apply it to England, and find out what the effect of that would be? He thought they would find they would come off the worse. Let him give one illustration. They had two scales—a junior and a senior. Well, in the case of England only one-quarter of the children were paid for on the lower scale, and the other three-quarters, were paid for on the higher. In the case of Scotland, on the other hand, only one-third of the children were paid for on the higher scale against three-quarters in England. It was all very well to say that the Scotch child earned 2s. 7d. more than the English? But at what sacrifices? The child had to attend school until 14 years of age, and the parent was deprived of his labour until that age. He was sure that if England would rise to the occasion and keep her children at school longer, and let them earn higher grants, there was not a single Scotchman who would object to England getting more money if she made the same sacrifices Scotland was already making. The Scotch ratepayers were paying more money than the English per head. The figures were £2 5s. per head in the case of English Board Schools, omitting the Metropolis; and £2 9s. per head in Scotch. So that the Scotch ratepayer was paying 4s. more per head, even if
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  the children did earn 2s. 7d. more. Both ratepayers and parents in Scotland were thus making sacrifices. Let them apply the English scale to Scotland, and they would willingly accept it; for he was quite sure they would make a great deal more money under it than they did under the Scotch scale.
  MR. SOUTTARsaid he was sorry that nothing was to be done for a form of technical education to which he attached great importance, -namely, agricultural research. Ha had thought that the Scotch Office Was alive to the great desire there was in Scotland, especially in some of the counties, that there should be a better system of agricultural research. There had been a certain, amount, of correspondence. He himself had had the privilege of seeing the Secretary for Scotland once or twice on the subject, and lie certainly thought that there was, an idea of devoting a certain sum of money—£6,000 or £7,000 a year to that purpose. Such an expenditure would be most remunerative, it would return itself a hundredfold to the Scotch farmer mid landowner, and lie did hope, therefore, that at the eleventh hour there might be a possibility of applying a certain sum to the purpose he had mentioned.
  Resolution to be reported upon Thursday.

  CONGESTED DISTRICTS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Order for Second Reading read.
  *MR. J. G. WEIRremarked that he congratulated the Government on the introduction of this Bill, and now, having had an opportunity of reading it, he again desired to express his thanks to the Government for this attempt to do something for the Highlands. He would, however, warn the Government that it would not settle the Highland question. The people wanted to be reinstated on the lands which were occupied by their forefathers, and which were now used for deer and sheep. According to the Report of the Deer Forests Commission, there were nearly 2,000,000 acres of land in the Highland crofting counties suitable for the occupation of crofters, cottars, and fishermen. He had

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  no objection to deer, but let them go to the crags and mountain tops, and let the fertile valleys be occupied by men. Large as the scope of this Bill was, it required powers the absence of which would tend to make it unworkable so far as the extension of holdings was concerned. It contained no compulsory powers for the acquisition of land, but it introduced the cumbrous and costly machinery of the Lands Clauses Acts. The want of compulsory powers in the Irish Act had seriously affected the usefulness of the Irish Congested Districts Board. He referred to the Irish Board because this Bill was founded on the Irish Congested Districts Act. The Commissioners under this Bill would have their hands tied in the case of an unwilling seller. Take, for example, the island of Lewis, with its population of nearly 30,000 living, under the most difficult conditions under one proprietor who might be unwilling to sell. Only last autumn, when in Lewis, the hon. Member introduced to the proprietor a deputation of County Councillors and other leading inhabitants of the island who were desirous that land should be provided for the creation of fishing villages in the neighbourhood of the bays where fish abounded, as well its for sites for cottars, and the extension of crofters' holdings. The proprietor of the island declined, however, to meet the difficulty. The result was that while under the Piddle Health (Scotland) Bill, which would shortly become law, numerous Black houses in the island would be condemned, no land would be available for the erection of new dwellings, or for the accommodation of cottars, who were crowded on to the parent croft. Were they, asked the hon. Member, going to migrate these fishermen to the mainland, and away front the rich fishing grounds around the island where they earned their livelihood? For want of compulsory powers to obtain land, the Congested Districts Board would be foiled on the very threshold of their work. Would the Lord Advocate consider the advisability of providing a remedy to meet this glaring defect in the Bill? Another point which he concluded to be an oversight was that the Bill did not provide for telegraph guarantees as in the Irish Congested Districts Act. The Scottish Fishery Board Reports urged the need of telegraph extensions to aid the
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  development of the fishing industry. Seeing that the Bill provided for the development of the fishing, industry, it was essential that it should give the Commissioners of the Board power to guarantee telegraph extensions, since the Post Office and Treasury absolutely refused to provide telegraph extensions without guarantee. It was true that under the postal reforms, for which they were indebted to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Postmaster General, these guarantees were reduced by one half. Poor fishermen could to it, even under these improved conditions, provide the necessary guarantees. Clause 6 said that repayments were to be made by half-yearly instalments of loan and interest. He frankly told the Lord Advocate this would he simply an impossibility. Time must be given to the crofter, cotter, and fisherman to obtain the natural increase of his stock and crops, and he would suggest that no payment be demanded until the expiration of, say, the first two or three years. With regard to the constitution of the Board, two of the proposed members, the Chairman of the Local Government Board and the Chairman of the Fishery Board, were located in Edinburgh. These gentlemen could not spend, say, eight or ten days in travelling to and front remote parts of Lewis, Harris, the Uists, or Barra—the very districts where congestion was most keenly felt. He suggested that all the three crofter Commissioners should be members of the Board, and he did so because these gentlemen had a thorough practical knowledge of the grievances of the Highland people, every acre of land in all the crofting counties, and the value of land in the respective districts. The two unknown men to be nominated by the Secretary for Scotland—where were they to be found? Where would you find a practical man who would give his time to travel, say through the island of Lewis, with purely disinterested motives? The practical work could not be done in either an Edinburgh or London office. The Chairman of both the Local Government Board and Fishery Board might be appointed as advisory members, but if these gentlemen were to be members of the Board, he thought the other two crofter Commissioners should also be added. The Board would

  475
  thus consist of nine members, as in the case of the Irish Board. That Board had to deal with 3,608,569 acres, whereas the Congested Districts (Scotland) Board would have to deal with 9,005,038 acres. One more point he would ask—that provision be made in the Bill for the unexpended balance in each year not to be returned to the Treasury, but to be retained for the use of the Board. He had pointed out these defects in the Bill, which he hoped would be considered and remedied by the Lord Advocate, so that this effort on the part of the Government might be workable, and tend to make the lot of the Hildander somewhat brighter, better, and happier than it had been during many years.
  MR. T. SHAWgave the Bill his cordial commendation and support. The objects of the Measure were praiseworthy in the highest degree. He congratulated the Lord Advocate upon making a composite Commission of much experience in Scotland. As he understood the objects of the Measure, they were to have the experience and wisdom of three large Boards—the Local Government Board, the Fishery Board, and the Crofters Commission—and he thought the result would be satisfactory. He viewed, however, with some apprehension Section 5, which contained the provision for the acquisition of land. The substantial taking of land would form the key to the success or failure of the Bill as a whole. But Section 5 was practically an optional and not a compulsory taking of land. If a proprietor in the Highlands was willing to sell, all that Section 5 did was to give a means by which the arbitration should proceed under the Lands. Clauses Act. Upon that point he hoped the Government would listen to an appeal which he now ventured to make. He asked them to produce some clause or clauses that would give compulsory power for taking land for the purposes of this Bill. The safety of such taking was well assured. The taking of land would be in the present case at the instance of a composite and. great public Board for the great public weal of a large part of Scotland, and in these circumstances he thought the Government should take a stronger line than they had taken, and affirm by statutory enactment that such Board, finding themselves in a position to de-
  476
  clare that the land was required, should have the power to put down its foot and say to a recalcitrant proprietor that he must concede to what was for the public weal in regard to this matter of land. He approved the purposes of the Bill and of the constitution of the Board it was proposed to set up, but he would beseech the Government to consider whether they could not strengthen and tighten up Section 5 of the Bill, so as to make the aspirations of the Highlanders for more land operative by statute.
  MR. CALDWELLagreed that the weak point of the Bill was that it contained no provision for the compulsory acquisition of land. It provided for the migration of crofters from one point to another, but it did not provide for the compulsory purchase of land. It was perfectly well known that in the districts affected by the Measure, the land was owned by one or two proprietors. They had thus power to prevent any migration of crofters, because, the Bill being of a voluntary and not of a compulsory character, they might decline to sell their land. He quite admitted that the present Government. had done a. deal to alleviate the condition of the Highlands, and he perfectly approved of what they had done to open up the means of communication by light railways in the Highlands. It had given the people an opportunity of earning a livelihood by developing their own districts. That was not charity, but, it was a policy which enabled all classes of the community to participate in the benefit of money that was coming out of the Imperial purse. It appeared to him that the present Bill departed from that policy, and that it was too much of the nature of a charity or dole. It gave money for the purchase of seed and for the erection of fishermen's houses and other purposes. But how could they build fishermen's houses if they had no compulsory powers to enable them to acquire land?· He considered the Government ought to make the power of acquiring land compulsory and not voluntary.
  THE LORD ADVOCATEhoped the House would now let the Bill be Read a Second time. The points raised by hon. Members would be met.
  Read a Second time, and committed for Thursday.

  POLICE (PROPERTY) BILL.
  Read a Second time, and committed for Thursday.

  WEIGTI'I'S AND MEASURES (METRIC SYSTEM) BILL.
  THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD or TRADE (Mr. C. T. RITCHIE,)THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD or TRADE (Mr. C. T. RITCHIE, Croydon) moved the Second Reading of this Bill, which, he said, was a small Bill, not intended to interfere with the existing system but to remove hindrances to trade.
  MR. GIBSON BOWLESopposed the Bill.
  Bill Read a Second tine, and committed to the Standing Committee on Trade, Etc.

  POST OFFICE (SITES) BILL.
  Read a Second time.
  On the Motion "That the Bill be committed to a Select Committee of five Members, three to be nominated by the House, and two by the Committee of Selection,"
  MR. GIBSON BOWLESobjected to the Bill being referred to any other Committee than that of the whole House. It traversed and partly repealed an important part of the existing law with regard to the acquisition of land by the Post Office. The existing law provided that, after notice given, the Treasury should hold an inquiry, and if satisfied might introduce a Bill. But under this Bill, although notices had been issued and objections made, no inquiry need be held. Moreover, Clause 9 of the Bill proposed in set terms that the Post Office should be exempted from the Metropolitan Building Act. The Bill also proposed to deal with the "Postman's Park," and to deal with it in a manner involving financial considerations and assumptions which he believed to be entirely wrong.
  MR. EDWARD BONDsaid he wished to support the views of the hon. Member for King's Lynn, especially as to the Postman's Park. By that part of the Bill the interests of the City Parochial Trustees, of whom he was one, were gravely affected.
  *MR. SPEAKERsaid the hon. Member's remarks hardly bore on the Question before the House. If the Bill were referred to a Select Committee it would afterwards come before a Committee of the whole House in the ordinary way, when the hon. Member would have an opportunity for his remarks.
  MR. HANBURYsaid he intended in Committee to withdraw Clause 9, to which his hon. Friend the Member for king's Lynn had referred. It was introduced rather by accident than design. The pillion of the Bill relating to the Postman's Park undoubtedly dealt with certain legal questions between the Post Office and the City Parochial Trustees, and he had arranged that it should be withdrawn on the distinct understanding that the trustees should not build on the vacant site until there had been an opportunity to consider the matter during the Recess.
  Motion agreed to.
  Ordered, That all petitions against the Bill presented live clear days before the meeting of the Committee, be referred to the Committee; that the petitioners praying to be beard by themselves, their counsel, or agents, be heard against the Bill, and counsel beard in support of the Bill.
  Ordered, That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers, and records.
  Ordered, That three be the quorum.— (Mr. Hanbury.)

  ISLE OF MAN (CHURCH BUILDING ACTS) BILL [H.L.]
  Second Reading deferred till Thursday.

  SUPPLY [28TH MAY] REPORT.
  Order Read for further consideration of postponed Resolution:—
  "That a sum, not exceeding £132,859, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Committee of Privy Council for Trade and Subordinate Departments."
  Resolution agreed to.

  SUPPLY [18TH JUNE].
  Resolutions reported;
  CIVIL SERVICES ESTIMATES, 1897–8.

    CLASS VI.
    1. "That a sum, not exceeding £273,781, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for superannuation, retired, and compassionate allowances and gratuities under sundry Statutes, and for compassionate allowances and gratuities awarded by the Treasury, and for the salaries of medical referees."
    2. "That a sum, not exceeding £2,350, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for certain pensions to masters and seamen of the Merchant Service, and to their widows and children."
    3. "That a sum, not exceeding £813, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for certain miscellaneous charitable and other allowances in Great Britain."

    CLASS VII.
    4. "That a sum, not exceeding £19,923, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and other expenses of temporary Commissions and Committees, including special inquiries."
    5. "That a sum, not exceeding £3,279, be granted to Tier Majesty, to complete the stun necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for certain miscellaneous expenses."

    CLASS II.
    6. "That a sum, not exceeding £60,672, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses in the Department of Her Majesty's Treasury and subordinate Departments."
    7. "That a sum, not exceeding £83,566, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of tile Office of Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Home Department and subordinate Offices."
    8. "That a sum, not exceeding £40,810, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the Department of the Comptroller and Auditor General."
    9. "That a sum, not exceeding £5,407, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will conic in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the Registry of Friendly Societies."
    10. "That a sum, not exceeding £9,725, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Commissioners in Lunacy in England."
    11. "That a sum, not exceeding £42, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the Mint, including the expenses of coinage."
    12. "That a sum, not exceeding £9.139, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the National Debt Office."
    13. "That a sum, not exceeding £14,464, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will conic in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the Public Record Office."
    14. "That a sum, not exceeding £4,591, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the establishment under the Public Works Loan Commissioners."
    15. "That a sum, not exceeding £27,167, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will collie in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1898, for the salaries and expenses of the Department of the Registrar General of Births, etc., in England."
    Resolutions Read a Second time.
    First three Resolutions agreed to.
    Fourth Resolution postponed.
    Subsequent Resolutions agreed to.
    Postponed Resolution to be considered upon Monday next.

    DANGEROUS PERFORMANCES BILL.
    Committee deferred till Thursday.
    Whereupon Motion made, and Question, "That this House do now adjourn," —(Sir William Walrond)—put, and agreed to.
    House Adjourned accordingly at a Quarter after Eight o'Clock till Wednesday.