Commons Sitting of 16 September 1887

Preamble
The House met at a quarter before Two of the clock.

CRIMINAL LAW AND PROCEDURE (IRELAND) ACT—IMPRISONMENT OF MR. O'BRIEN, M.P.
MR. SPEAKERinformed the House that he had received a letter from Mr. Richard Eaton, Resident Magistrate, acquainting him of the arrest and imprisonment of Mr. William O'Brien, Member for the North Eastern Division of the County of Cork, which he read to the House, as folio weth:—
Cork, September 12th, 1887.
Sir,
I have the honour to inform you that William O'Brien, esquire, a Member of the House of Commons, was this day brought before me, on a Warrant, charging him with an offence under section 2 of the Criminal Law and Procedure Act. 50 and 51 Vic. c. 20, namely, inciting divers persons to assault, obstruct, and intimidate sundry persons, being Sheriff's officers, bailiffs, constables, and other Ministers of the Law, in the execution of their duties; and that he has been committed by me to the County Prison, at Cork, to await his trial on the said charge, on the 23rd of September instant, at Mitchelstown, in said county, before a Court duly constituted under said Act, and that lie is now in Cork County Prison.
I have the honour to be,
Sir,
Your most obedient Servant,
RICHARD EATON,
Resident Magistrate.
To the Right Honble.
The Speaker of
The House of Commons.
MR. J. O'CONNOR: May I ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant a question arising out of that letter?
MR. SPEAKERassented.
MR. J. O'CONNOR: I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he

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will give us any assurance that this definite appointment of the day of trial will not be anticipated by the action of the authorities in Ireland?
THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. W. H. SMITH)(who replied) said: I have received no information from the Irish Government on the subject. I cannot believe that any other than the regular and formal course will be adopted in this case as in all other cases.

BURIALS ACT (ENGLAND AND WALES) —BOLTON-ON-DEARNE BURIAL GROUND.
MR. SHIRLEYasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether burials can now take place without scandal or indecency in the Bolton-on-Dearne Churchyard; why the coming into operation of the order for closing the said churchyard has been postponed; and, whether the said churchyard cannot be enlarged, or a new burial ground acquired?
THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Mr. MATTHEWS),in reply, said, that he had been informed by the Inspector that burials could take place in certain parts of the churchyard of Bolton-on-Dearne without scandal or indecency. The Order in Council closing the churchyard had been postponed until March next, in order to enable the parishioners to take steps to obtain a new burial ground. His approval had been asked for a site a short distance from the church.

NATIONAL SCHOOLS (IRELAND)— APPOINTMENT OF PUPILS AS MONITORS.
MR. W. ABRAHAMasked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, When will those pupils who have been recommended by the District Inspectors of National Schools in Ireland in July last, be appointed monitors in the schools for which they have been so recommended?
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER SECRETARY (Colonel KING-HARMAN)(who replied) said: The Commissioners of National Education inform me that such of the candidate monitors recommended by the Inspectors as have been approved by
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the Commissioners have been appointed from the 1st of July last.

POST OFFICE (IRELAND)—KILLALOE POST OFFICE.
THE O'GORMAN MAHON(for Mr. Cox)asked the Postmaster General, Whether it is true that the accounts of the Killaloe Post Office have been falsified and monies embezzled; whether the Postmistress has been dismissed in consequence; and, whether there is any foundation for the rumour that it is intended to appoint a near relative of the dismissed official to the vacant position?
SIR HERBERT MAXWELL (A LORD of the TREASURY)(who replied) said: The Postmistress of Killaloe Post Office has been arrested on a charge of larceny and embezzlement. The matter is now the subject of a magisterial investigation. The question of dismissal would not come before the Postmaster General until the magisterial investigation had been completed. No vacancy had yet arisen in the office of sub-Postmistress.

CHURCH OF ENGLAND—APPROPRIATION OF GLEBE LAND FOR A BURIAL GROUND AT GREAT HARWOOD, LANCASHIRE.
MR. J. ROWLANDS(for Mr. H. J. WILSON)asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether he has been asked to sanction the appropriation by the Vicar of Great Harwood, Lancashire, of a part of the glebe for an addition to the churchyard, such land being at a great distance from the churchyard; whether he is aware that the Sanitary Authority of the district have provided, under Marten's Act, a cemetery adjoining the glebe land proposed to be so appropriated, and divided it into Episcopal, Nonconformist, and Roman Catholic portions, with a separate chapel for each; whether the fact that the Sanitary Authority, in the exercise of the discretion vested in them by the Act, have not obtained the consecration of the Episcopal portion of the cemetery, justifies the appropriation of glebe land for providing a second cemetery, to the detriment of that already provided by the inhabitants; and, whether, before giving the required sanction, he will

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cause an inquiry into the facts of the case to be made?
THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Mr. MATTHEWS),in reply, said, that his approval had been asked for the establishment of a burial-ground at Great Harwood, and, in accordance with the usual practice, the Burial Inspector had reported to him with regard to the suitableness of the proposed site. He was informed that a cemetery had been established under the provisions of Marten's Act. The appropriation of glebe land was lawful under certain conditions required by law to be observed. The appropriation did not require his sanction. It was for the Bishop, incumbent, and patron to decide whether the absence of a consecrated burial-ground for the interment of members of the Church of England in Great Harwood justified such appropriation.

LAW AND JUSTICE (ENGLAND AND WALES)—THE SENTENCE ON MIRIAM JONES, FOR ATTEMPTED CHILD MUBDER.
MR. W. ABRAHAMasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether, after considering the Petitions sent to him respecting the case of the unfortunate girl Miriam Jones, who was sentenced at the Swansea Assizes to eight years' penal servitude for an alleged attempt to murder her child, and in view of the fact that the child is now alive and uninjured, he will consider whether the severity of that sentence might be mitigated?
THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Mr. MATTHEWS): The learned Judge who passed sentence upon Miriam Joneses still absent from England, Upon his return I shall consult him upon all the facts of the case and upon a mitigation of sentence. It would be contrary to usage if I dealt with the sentence without reference to the learned Judge who passed it.

LABOURERS (IRELAND) ACT—SCHEMES FOR THE ELECTORAL DIVISION OF TARBERT.
MR. CAREW(for Dr. TANNER)asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, whether it is a fact that
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Captain Leslie, of Tarbert, succeeded in preventing the promotion of several schemes for the erection of labourers' cottages, under the Labourers (Ireland) Act, in the Tarbert Division, by his undertaking to erect whatever cottages might be required; whether it is a fact that no cottage has ever since been built; whether the Guardian for the said Division, who was responsible for accepting the said compromise, is a paid servant of Captain Leslie, and holds the position of Guardian through the proxy votes given by Captain Leslie and his friends; whether the labourers in the said Division are as a consequence, compelled to inhabit huts condemned by the Sanitary Authorities in March, 1882; and, whether any steps will be taken by the Executive Government in Ireland to remedy the present state of affairs in the Division referred to?
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER SECRETARY (Colonel KING-HARMAN)(who replied) said: I understand that at a meeting of the Board of Guardians of Glin Union Captain Leslie stated that he was prepared to build eight houses in the Electoral Division of Tarbert at his own expense; and it was agreed to by Mr. Hamilton, the elected Guardian of the Division, that six houses would meet the requirements of that Division. The clerk of Glin Union states that Mr. Hamilton was never a paid servant of Captain Leslie. It is the case that no cottage has since been built. The Medical Officer of Health appears to have reported, in June, 1882, that in his dispensary district, which includes Tarbert Division, there were certain houses unfit for human habitation. The Guardians presented, on the 30th of August, petitions for the confirmation of improvement schemes in the Union, including the erection of 10 cottages in the Tarbert Division; and the Local Government Board have directed a local inquiry to be held into the application on the 21st of this month.

CUSTOMS DEPARTMENT—LOADING AND DISCHARGING CARGOES—ATTENDANCE OF OFFICERS AT "OVERTIME" HOURS.
MR. ATKINSONasked the Secretary to the Treasury, If his attention has been called to the fact that owing to the high charges for attend

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ance of Custom House Officers at hours winch were called "overtime," in connection with the loading and discharge of cargoes of vessels, a sum of £23,288 13 s. 5d. has been so levied at four Ports in 1887—namely, London, Liverpool, Hull, and Glasgow; if he has observed that in this way salaries of Custom House Officers have been increased in such instances as the following:—namely, £445 made into £611 4s.; £380 made into £581 2s.10 d.; £320 made into £518 7s. 6d.; £300 made into £436 0s.. 8d.; £250 made into £355 6s. 4d.; £ 192 10 s. made into £297 3s. 5d.; £185 made into £294 12 s. 9d.; and, if, in the face of these facts, he will say what he is doing to alter the system by which such, excessive pressure of charges comes upon the shipping and mercantile interests of the country?
SIR HERBERT MAXWELL (A LORD of the TREASURY)(who replied) said: The important and difficult subject referred to in this Question has engaged the personal attention of my hon. Friend the Secretary to the Treasury before now, and has received much consideration from the Hoard of Customs. Without giving any definite pledge, I can assure my hon. Friend that we will use our best endeavours to arrive at some solution which will increase the facilities to trade without injury to the public interests involved.

PUBLIC MEETINGS (METROPOLIS)— THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH.
MR. J. ROWLANDS(for Mr. PICKERSGILL)asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, By whose direction and with what object the police, on Sunday last, visited the premises at Bow of Mr. James Branch, and made inquiries for him, and also for the names of those who took part in a meeting over which he presided, held on the previous evening at Hackney Wick to protest against the action of the Government in Ireland; and, whether now instructions have recently been issued to the Metropolitan Police with regard to their attitude towards public meetings; and, if so, what are those in structions?
THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Mr. MATTHEWS): I am
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informed by the Commissioner of Police that, in accordance with the usual practice, a sergeant of police, in order to supplement his official Report, called on two gentlemen who were present at the meeting and asked who the speakers were. It is usual to ask for such information, and it is readily given. There was no ulterior motive whatever in the call made on those gentlemen. No new instructions have been issued to the police with regard to their duties at public meetings.
MR. J. ROWLANDS: Do I understand that it has always been the custom with the police in the Metropolis to ask for the names of speakers at public meetings?
MR. MATTHEWS: It would be the duty of the police to report what happens at a meeting; and if an Inspector or a Superintendent did not know the exact names it is usual to inquire of those who do know.
MR. CREMER: May I ask how long that practice has been in force, and when the order was issued?
MR. MATTHEWS: I cannot give the hon. Gentleman any precise date. So far as I know, it has been a continuous practice. Certainly I found it in existence, and I have made no alteration.
MR. J. ROWLANDS: I wish the right hon. Gentleman could give the information asked. I have been connected with many open-air meetings in the Metropolis—[" Order, order!"]—and have been responsible for many—["Order, order !"]—and I have never yet been asked—["Order, order !"]—I have never yet been asked—I repeat I have never yet boon asked by the police to give any such information.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! If the hon. Gentleman wishes to ask a Question arising out of the Answer of the Secretary of State it is competent fur him to do so.
MR. WOOTTON ISAACSON: Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly tell the House whether he will bring in a Bill, or exercise some authority, to prevent the making of the Sabbath hideous in the East End of London through these open air meetings?

UNITED STATES—SEIZURE OF ENGLISH VESSELS IN ALASKAN WATERS.
MR. SHIRLEY(for Mr. GOURLEY)asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether the seven vessels seized by American cruisers in Alaskan waters, and ordered to be released, had been liberated; and, whether Her Majesty's Government had published notices to British subjects in Canada warning them against infringing the United States Fishery Regulations?
THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. W. H. SMITH)(who replied)said: The Dominion Government have not reported whether the order for the release of the vessels against which legal proceedings had been instituted was carried out. In reply to the second part of the Question of the hon. Member for Sunderland, I may state that Her Majesty's Government do not publish notices relating to public affairs in Canada; and there is no doubt that the persons in the Dominion interested are fully acquainted with the United States Fishery Laws and Regulations.

PROROGATION OF THE PARLIAMENT.
Message to attend The LORDS COMMISSIONERS;—
The House went;—and a Royal Commission to that purpose having been read, the Royal Assent was given to several Bills.
And afterwards Her Majesty's Most Gracious Speech was delivered to both Houses of Parliament by the Lord nigh Chancellor (pursuant to Her Majesty's Command).
Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
After which,
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid—
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
By virtue of Her Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in Her Majesty's Name and in obedience to Her Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Wednesday the Thirtieth day of November next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Wednesday the Thirtieth day of November next.