Commons Sitting of 14 August 1876

MINUTES.
New Writ Issued—For Donegal, v. Thomas Conolly, esquire, deceased.
Third Reading—Crossed Cheques [267], and passed.
Withdrawn—Toll Bridges (River Thames) (re-comm.)* [219]; Parliamentary and Municipal Registration (Boroughs) (re-comm.)* [294].
The House met at half after Two of the clock.

LABOURERS' DWELLINGS (IRELAND).

  QUESTION.
  MR. BUTTasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Whether he will consider the advisability of advising the issue during the Recess of a Royal Commission to inquire into the subject of the dwellings of the labouring classes in Ireland?
  SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH: Sir, I believe that during the last few years labourers' dwellings in Ireland have been greatly and generally improved; but I fear it must still be admitted that their condition is not by any means what could be desired. I have
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  already paid some attention to this subject, but I am bound to say that I much doubt whether I could recommend to the Government any proposals for legislation which would be likely to have any practical effect with regard to it—unless, perhaps, by some change in the sanitary laws which might make it more easy to deal with dwellings unfit for human habitation. I will consider this point in the Recess, as an opportunity for such action might be found in the Bill to consolidate the Public Health Acts which I hope to introduce again next Session; and I will readily, also, look into the suggestion on the subject which the hon. and learned Member has been good enough to make in his Question.

PARLIAMENTARY REPORTING.

  QUESTION.
  MR. WHALLEYasked, Whether the Government will take into consideration the present system of reporting, for the information of the public, the debates and proceedings in this House; and, what means may be adopted for providing full reports of the debates as well after midnight as before?
  THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER,in reply, said, there was some little inconvenience in saying that a subject would be taken into consideration—that seemed to imply that the Government thought that some plan might be adopted, and that they would consider how they best might mature such plan, and propose it to Parliament. Looking to the terms of the hon. Gentleman's Question, Her Majesty's Government were not prepared to make any promise of that kind, especially as it appeared that the Question had reference to some alteration, he supposed, of the present system of reporting, not for the advantage of the House in particular, but for the information of the public, which rather seemed to resolve itself into a question of supply and demand. However, the matter was one which did involve some considerations of importance, and, therefore, if the hon. Gentleman and the House would understand that in saying what he did he was not to be understood as saying more than he did; he would say that the matter was one about which the Government would think during the Recess.
  MR. WHALLEYthanked the right hon. Gentleman, for his reply, and stated that he would call attention to the subject on the Motion for the Adjournment of the House.

  HYDE PARK CORNER.—QUESTION.
  LORD ERNEST BRUCEasked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the absence of the First Commissioner of Works, not yet a Member of the House, Whether, after the repeated offers for the last three years of the late Commissioner to carry out some plan to lessen the traffic, during the London season, at Hyde Park Corner for the benefit of the public, he has any objection to give an assurance that the whole subject will be taken into the serious consideration of Her Majesty's Government before the next Session of Parliament?
  THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER,in reply, said, there could be no doubt of the importance of the Question. It was one which involved a great deal of difficulty, but it clearly required consideration. He had already been in communication with the present First Commissioner of Works on the subject, and could assure the House it was one which would obtain immediate consideration.

  PUBLIC HEALTH—SUPERVISION OF DAIRY FARMS.—QUESTION.
  MR. CHARLEYasked the President of the Local Government Board, Whether it is his intention to take any steps to carry out the views expressed in the Report of Mr. Power, the Commissioner appointed by the Board to inquire into the origin of the Eagley Milk Epidemic, that—
  "The case points to the urgent necessity for regulation and adequate supervision over the sanitary circumstances of dairy farms."
  MR. SCLATER-BOOTH,in reply, said, no steps could be taken to carry out the views quoted by the hon. Member without fresh legislation, and when the Public Health Act was under consideration last year, he gave some attention to the subject, but was satisfied on inquiry that it was too difficult a matter to be properly attended to in that Act. It was one, however, of serious importance, and should have his attention during the Recess.

  PHŒNIX PARK (DUBLIN)—WHITEFIELD LODGE.—QUESTION.
  MR. BUTTasked the Secretary to the Treasury, Whether it has been brought under the notice of the Lords of the Treasury that an offer has been accepted for the letting of Whitefield Lodge, a portion of the Phœnix Park, for a period of seventy-five years; and, whether the Lords of the Treasury will interfere to prevent such alienation of the property of the Crown being completed until this House has an opportunity of expressing an opinion on the subject?
  MR. W. H. SMITH,in reply, said, the hon. and learned Gentleman was correct in saying that it was proposed to let Whitefield Lodge, a portion of the Phœnix Park, for a term of 75 years. Serious objections were, however, expressed as to letting public property for so long a period of time, and as he (Mr. Smith) to some extent concurred therein he had been in communication with his right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland in regard to the inexpediency of alienating Crown property for that period.

THE DOGS REGULATION (IRELAND) ACT, 1868—PETTY SESSIONS CLERKS.

  QUESTION.
  MR. O'SHAUGHNESSYasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, with reference to "The Dogs Regulation (Ireland) Act, 1868," For an explanation of the circumstances which led to the increase of the remuneration of petty sessions clerks out of the proceeds of the dog tax from £4,968 0s. 2d. in 1871 to £10,932 9s. 4d. in 1875; whether it is not a fact that in 1875 £13,700 of the proceeds of the tax went in expenses of administration (including salaries and remuneration) of the Act, leaving £18,300 for distribution in relief of borough or county rates; whether he will inquire into the possibility of reducing the expenses within narrower limits; and whether the registrar under the Act holds any other office of emolument under Government than the registrarship; and, if so, what the salary attached to such office amounts to?
  SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH: Sir, in 1872 very strong representations were made to the Government by nearly all the benches of magistrates through-

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  out Ireland pointing out the inadequate salaries paid to clerks of petty sessions under the Act of 1858, and how impossible it was to secure the services of competent clerks for such salaries. The clerks of petty sessions are county officers appointed by the magistrates and doing county work. The counties do not contribute any portion of their salaries, and it was, under these circumstances, considered a fair and legitimate application of a portion of the money received for the registration of dogs (which is collected by the clerks, and imposes on them very heavy additional labour and expense) to apply it to the increase of their remuneration. The amounts given in the second part of the Question are correct; but they include, in addition to the remuneration given to clerks of petty sessions, the very considerable expenses necessarily incurred under Sections 11 and 15 of the Act. The expenses could not be reduced except by reducing the payments to the clerks, and I should be very sorry to make such a proposal. The registrar under the Dogs Regulation Act (1865) is by the Act made to be the registrar under the Petty Sessions Clerks Act (1858) and the Fines Act (1851), and a third of his salary is made chargeable on the moneys realized under the Dogs Act.

  INSPECTORS OF FISHERIES (IRELAND)—BYE-LAWS.—QUESTION.
  MR. BUTT (for Mr. O'ShaUghnessy)asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, If he can state the circumstances which led to the delay of the approval of the Irish Privy Council of the two bye-laws hereinafter mentioned, namely:—

  1. Bye-law. Skibbereen District, River Ilen, made by the Inspectors and dated 28th February, 1874; approved by the Privy Council 27th November, 1875;

  2. Bye-law. Waterford District, made by the Inspectors and dated 17th April, 1874; approved by the Privy Council 13th January, 1875?

  SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH: Sir, bye-laws made by the Irish Inspectors of Fisheries are not approved by the Privy Council without first obtaining the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown as to their legality, and until opportunities have been had for their consideration by a Committee of the Privy Council, which, of course, can
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  only act upon a reference from the Privy Council. With regard to the particular cases named, I am informed that the River Hen Bye-law, made by the Inspectors on the 28th of February, 1874, was not received in the Council Office until the 23rd of May, 1874, as the legal formalities as to posting of notices, &c, which the Inspectors have to go through, necessarily occupy considerable time. It was submitted to the Privy Council on the 30th of June, at their next meeting after its receipt. It was then referred to the Law Officers, and upon its return with their opinion was considered by the Committee at their next meeting on the 20th of October. The Committee reported in its favour, and it was approved by the Privy Council at their next meeting, on the 27th of November, 1874. With respect to the Waterford District Bye-laws, the dates are as follows:—Made by the Inspectors, April 17, 1874; lodged in Council Office, November 24;submitted to Privy Council, November 27; considered by Committee, December 23; approved by Privy Council, January 13, 1875. I am bound to say that in both these cases some of the intervals, particularly between the making of the bye-law and its lodgment in the Privy Council Office, appear longer than I should have supposed were necessary. I will make further inquiry into the matter, with a view of preventing unnecessary delay (if any has occurred) in the future.

  H.M.S. "MONARCH" AND THE "RALEIGH."—QUESTION.
  MR. POTTERasked the First Lord of the Admiralty, If he can state to the House any particulars respecting the reported collision between Her Majesty's Ships "Monarch" and "Raleigh" in the fleet now stationed at Besika Bay?
  MR. A. EGERTON,in reply, said, that no official communication had been received at the Admiralty respecting this collision; but a private letter had been received which stated that during the cruise of the Mediterranean Fleet the steam steering-gear of the Triumph broke, and that the Monarch, in avoiding that ship, fouled the Raleigh, causing the loss of one boat and damage to the fore-yard of the vessel. The matter was being inquired into by the Commander-in-Chief on the Mediterranean Station.

  TURKEY—THE LOANS OF 1854 AND 1855.—QUESTION.
  SIR CHARLES W. DILKEasked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, What is the present position of negotiations in reference to the payment of interest on the Turkish Loan of 1855, and what the consequent position of the Loan of 1854?
  THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER,in reply, said, he had nothing material to add to what he had already stated to the House, but he would briefly recapitulate his former statement. On the 1st August, when the dividends were due upon the Guaranteed Loan of 1855, the Government were informed by the Bank of England that no funds had been placed in their hands by the Turkish Government which were applicable to the loan upon which the dividend had then to be paid. The Treasury accordingly authorized the Bank to make an advance in order that there might be no delay in the payment of the coupons, and he communicated with the Foreign Office upon the subject. He stated to that office that it would be the duty of the British Government, in the event of no funds being provided, by the Turkish Government, to make good out of the Exchequer the amount which had been so advanced by the Bank of England, and to call upon the Government of France to make good one moiety of the advance. Steps were about to be taken for that purpose, after granting a sufficient interval for the purpose of allowing the Porte to put the Bank in funds; but while those communications which were necessary were going on with the Porte and the French Government, a Question was put to him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) in that House by the hon. Member for Longford (Mr. Errington), and in consequence of that Question, on his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) asking for information from the Bank on the subject, an intimation was received that there were in the Bank of England some £60,000 on account of the Tribute Loan of 1854, and also an amount of £116,000 on account of the Tribute Loan of 1871. Under these circumstances the Government were now taking advice, and were in communication with the French Government on the question as to whether they should make any advance from the Treasury to meet the money which had been so advanced by
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  the Bank. That was the state of the facts, and to them he had nothing to add.

  METROPOLIS—ARTIZANS DWELLINGS ACT—LANCASHIRE COURT, BOND STREET.—QUESTION.
  SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFFasked the President of the Local Government Board, Whether he will ascertain from the Metropolitan Board of Works their reason for neglecting to survey Lancashire Court, Bond Street, which was declared by the Medical Officer of Health of St. George's Parish in February last to be unfit for human habitation; and, whether any steps will be taken under the Artizans Dwellings Act to deal with this case?
  MR. ASSHETON CROSS (for Mr. SCLATER Booth),in reply, said he would communicate with the Metropolitan Board of Works on the subject. He might add that it was their intention to deal, he did not know whether with this particular case, but with a great many cases, under the Artizans' Dwellings Act in the course of the year.

  POOR LAW (SCOTLAND).—QUESTION.
  MR. HOPE JOHNSTONEasked the Lord Advocate, Whether it is the intention of the Government in the ensuing Session to re-introduce the provisions of the Poor Law (Scotland) Bill in regard to medical relief and the appointment and emoluments of medical officers?
  THE LORD ADVOCATE,in reply, said it was the intention of Her Majesty's Government to re-introduce the provisions of the Poor Law (Scotland) Bill as regarded the subject mentioned in the Question of the hon. Member.

  METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS—FINANCE.—QUESTION.
  MR. HAYTER: asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether he will consider during the Recess the propriety of withdrawing the assent of the Treasury to the moneys, varying from one to two millions, of the Metropolitan Board of Works being kept at the London and Westminster Joint Stock Bank; and, whether he will consider the question of urging the Metropolitan Board of Works to place them in the Bank of England, having regard to the increase of the

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  balance since the Treasury was asked to sanction the original deposit made under the 41st section of the 32 and 33 Vic., cap. 102?
  THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER,in reply, said, he had looked into the Act to which the hon. Gentleman referred, and he did not think it was competent under the provisions of that Act for the Treasury to consider the propriety of withdrawing its assent to the moneys being deposited in the bank referred to. The question raised for the consideration of the Treasury under the Act was simply this—that the Metropolitan Board should pay the moneys they received under the Act to a bank to be approved of by the Lords of the Treasury. A formal application was made by the Board to the Treasury to sanction the employment of the London and Westminster Joint Stock Bank. That assent was given, and it seemed to him that the Treasury had now, under the statute, nothing more to do in the matter. It was, however, a question whether it was not desirable that the Treasury should be withdrawn by some alteration of the statute from any connection with any particular Bank, because it did not appear to him that it was altogether a convenient position that the Metropolitan Board should have the apparent sanction of the Treasury in such a matter.

  H.M.S. "THUNDERER."—QUESTION.
  MR. E. J. REEDasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether his attention has been called to a statement in "The Times" of that day, in which the Coroner who is conducting the inquiry into the "Thunderer" explosion is represented to have said that the assessor prevented him from proceeding to take evidence, and, whether it is true that an assessor has the power to overrule the Coroner in that respect and to cause the further adjournment of the inquest?
  MR. ASSHETON CROSS,in reply, said, he had seen the statement referred to, but had not had an opportunity of consulting his hon. and learned Friend the Attorney General on the subject. He had no doubt himself, however, that the sole control of the inquiry was in the hands of the Coroner.

PUBLIC HEALTH—DRAINAGE AND WATER SUPPLY OF UPPINGHAM—RETURN OF THE SCHOOL.

  QUESTION.
  MR. WHITWELLasked the President of the Local Government Board, If he is aware whether the local authorities of Uppingham have taken steps to commence the drainage works sanctioned by the Local Government Board; whether they have deferred advertising for tenders for the work till the operations for the water supply of the town have been provided; whether the town is liable for the costs incurred by the local authority in opposing the Water Supply Bill, or by further procrastination; and, whether the return of the school to the town has been postponed thereby till next year; and what steps the Local Government Board has taken to enforce the completion of the sanitary measures at Uppingham urgently necessary for checking the continued loss of life and injury to the school by the dangerous state of the drains?
  MR. SCLATER-BOOTH,in reply, said, that the postponement of the return of pupils to this school was not due exclusively to the non-completion of drainage works.

  GREECE—THE "AGRIGENTI" AND THE "HYLTON CASTLE."—QUESTION.
  In reply to Mr. T. E. Smith,
  MR. BOURKEsaid, that the Government were not as yet aware whether the accused would be tried for murder or manslaughter. Her Majesty's Government had already given instructions to our Minister at Athens not only to watch the case narrowly, but to take care that a proper means of defence should be given to the captain.

  MERCANTILE MARINE—THE CASE OF HORATIO WALTERS.—QUESTION.
  CAPTAIN PIMasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If he will take into consideration the case of Horatio Walters, late master of the ship "Emily Augusta," of Liverpool, now undergoing a sentence of penal servitude for fifteen years. He was found guilty of manslaughter in November, 1874, several of the crew having died on the passage from his alleged cruelty, al-

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  though, the real cause of death was never proved, and the men were known to have been shipped in a badly diseased state. Horatio Walters brought the "Emily Augusta" from Akyab to England with the greatest difficulty, after a stormy voyage of nearly six months. The crew, thirty-three in number, were all Lascars and blacks, the mates, one a German, the other a naturalized American; the only Englishman, besides Horatio Walters, being quite a lad. It was necessary to maintain a severe discipline under such very adverse circumstances, or the ship would have been lost more than once; and, if satisfied of these facts, will the right honourable Gentleman take the case of the unfortunate man into consideration, and if convinced that justice has been fully vindicated by the penal servitude already endured by Horatio Walters, recommend him for a pardon?
  MR. ASSHETON CROSS,in reply, said, that hitherto no official representations had been made to the Home Office on the subject, but that inquiries would be made.

CROSSED CHEQUES BILL. [Lords.]
[BILL 267.] (Mr. Attorney General.)
CROSSED CHEQUES BILL. [Lords.]

  THIRD READING.
  Order for Third Reading read.
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read the third time."—(Mr. Attorney General.)
  MR. J. G. HUBBARDsaid: Sir, the object of this Bill is to protect the community against the dangers affecting crossed cheques, arising from dishonesty in thieves and carelessness in bankers; and it has been introduced in response to the dissatisfaction occasioned by the decision in the case of "Smith v. the Union Bank of London." In that case a cheque of £21 9s. was drawn by Mills and Co. upon the Union Bank of London, payable to Smith or his order. Smith received the cheque, endorsed it, and crossed it "London and County Bank." The cheque was stolen by a thief, whose transferee paid it into the London and Westminster Bank to his own credit. The London and Westminster Bank improperly presented the cheque, and the Union Bank improperly paid it, and returned it to Mills, to whose
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  debit it was placed. Mills, possessing a genuine acquittance from Smith, is satisfied; but Smith, not having received the amount, claims it from the Union Bank, who paid it wrongfully. The Court of Common Pleas negatived Smith's claim, and that decision was upon appeal confirmed by the Supreme Court upon these grounds:—1st, that the negotiability of the cheque was not restrained by the crossing; 2ndly, that the customer of the London and Westminster Bank was the lawful owner of the cheque; 3rdly, that Smith had no property in the cheque; and, 4thly, that Mills and Co., as drawers, were alone qualified to bring an action upon it. To amend the law as thus expounded, the Bill before the House was introduced; its earlier clauses define the terms used, and in the 7th clause it recites the law as already expressed in the Statute Book; but it adds, in the 10th clause, the needful enforcement of the law in the following terms:—
  "Any banker paying a cheque crossed generally otherwise than to a banker, or a cheque crossed specially otherwise than to the banker, to whom the same shall be crossed, or his agent for collection, being a banker, shall be liable to the true owner of the cheque for any loss he may sustain, owing to the cheque having been so paid."
  Up to that point I think the Bill is perfectly clear and satisfactory, and at that point I should have been satisfied to stop. I had introduced a Bill at the commencement of the Session to provide that bankers should not with impunity neglect the instructions upon a cheque; but I withdrew my own Bill in consequence of a measure having been introduced in the House of Lords which had the advantage of summing up the whole law in to one statute, and of making a clear exposition as to what was hereafter to be a guide to commercial men and bankers. The author of the Bill in the House of Lords did not think it sufficient to leave the declaration of the law in that particular shape. It appears to have been thought necessary to define who was the "true owner" of a cheque; and that attempt no doubt may have been rendered necessary by the circumstance that in the judgment delivered in the case of "Smith v. the Union Bank," the Court declared that Smith, the plaintiff, could not maintain an action for the cheque stolen from him, and it had

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  recognized in the person who received it from the thief the "true and lawful owner." Therefore, if that view were accepted, it would become necessary to define the "true owner" referred to in the 10th clause. I should have thought that the true owner would have been admitted to be the person from whom the cheque was stolen; but the decision in the case of "Smith v. the Union Bank," seems to have been based upon the one assumption, that, however clear the instructions given to the banker by the crossing, "they could not restrain the negotiability of the cheque," a phrase which recognized the title of the actual possessor, and I anxiously call the attention of the House to the grounds on which the negotiability of cheques is assumed, because—if, as I think it can be shown—there is no antecedent necessity for ascribing the especial negotiability to crossed cheques, then the difficulty felt by the Court in the case to which I have referred, need not have existed, and the true ownership in the cheque might easily have been settled. The cases cited in the Court of Appeal, as establishing the negotiability of crossed cheques were "Bellamy v. Majoribanks," "Carlyon v. Ireland," and "Simmonds v. Taylor." I have referred to the Law Reports, and I find that the case of "Bellamy v. Majoribanks" was tried as far back as 1852; its purport was to recover from Coutts & Co. the value of a crossed cheque paid over the counter, and in the judgment it was laid down by Baron Parke—
  "That the crossing of a cheque payable to bearer with the name of a banker does not restrain the negotiability of the cheque to that banker."
  In the case of "Carlyon v. Ireland," tried in January, 1856, the Judges in the Queen's Bench agreed "that a cheque payable to 'bearer' was negotiable, and that the crossing left it negotiable." But in 1856 the statute 19 & 20 Vict. c. 25, was passed for the purpose of correcting the effect of those particular decisions, and it enacted—
  "That a cheque which was crossed either '&Co.' or with the name of a particular bank should only be paid to or through some banker."
  Subsequently to the passing of that Act in May, 1857, the case of "Simmonds v. Taylor" was brought before the Exche-
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  quer Courts, and in that case it was declared that—"a crossed cheque presented with the crossing obliterated might be justifiably paid to a stranger." The judgment was unimpeachable as to the point of law which it decided, but the language of the judgment went far beyond the particular necessity of the case, and the learned Judge (Baron Bramwell) enunciated a dictum of a most important character. He stated on that occasion—"The negotiability of the cheque is not and never was affected by crossing;" and he added—"It is impossible to make the crossing a part of the instrument and yet preserve its negotiability." Baron Bramwell could not reconcile the negotiability of a cheque with the operative power of the crossing, but what was the action taken by the mercantile community after that ruling had been laid down? The obiter dictum of Baron Bramwell led to the immediate introduction of a Bill into this House—a Bill that was passed into law in the same year, 1858. This Act, 20 & 21 Vict. c. 79, was perfectly clear and most stringent in its terms with regard to the efficacy of crossing. The Act declared—
  "That the crossing should be deemed a material part of the cheque, and that no banker should pay a cheque crossed '& Co.' except to a banker; or should pay a cheque crossed to a particular banker except to that banker."
  As between the assumed negotiability of a crossed cheque and the efficacy of the crossing, the commercial community decided in favour of the efficacy of the crossing. One might have thought that the fact of two separate Acts having been passed in order to negative the particular attribute of negotiability judicially assigned to crossed cheques would have been sufficient; but the judgment in the case of "Smith v. The Union Bank of London" has exhibited the strength and tenacity of the force of legal traditions, and has shown that lawyers have attached an almost superstitious veneration to what they call the "negotiability of cheques." And upon what authority is this quality of negotiability in crossed cheques affirmed in the judgment delivered by Baron Bramwell in "Smith v. The Union Bank of London?" The cases "Bellamy v. Majoribanks," "Carlyon v. Ireland," and "Simmonds v. Taylor," are cited as "clearly showing that, whatever may

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  have been the effect of a crossing, the negotiability of the cheque was not thereby restrained"—that is to say, the decisions delivered in 1852 and in 1856, and corrected by legislation in 1856 and 1858, and a dictum enunciated in 1858, and specifically corrected by legislation in the same year, are cited in 1876 in support of a theory which has been repudiated by the mercantile community, and again and again discountenanced by statute law. And what is the force and meaning of the term? When cheques are called "negotiable," we must remember that the word is one of very doubtful import as applied to such documents. There are cheques, there are bank notes, and there are bills of exchange, and they have all been called "negotiable," but they are severally documents of entirely different characters. A bank note is as paper money a part of the circulating medium, of which the title passes with possession from hand to hand, a bill of exchange may with perfect accuracy be described as a "negotiable" document, for its transfer is matter of bargain, in which interest of money and period of maturity are elements in the negotiation; but a cheque stands between the two. It does not, like a bank note, circulate from hand to hand upon its intrinsic security, nor is it like a bill of exchange, negotiable at a discount—it is a document which only passes at its value from the drawer to the payee, the transfer of its amount being its sole purpose. That being the case, it is gravely inaccurate to say that a cheque ought of course to be negotiable like a bill of exchange, or to circulate like a bank note, when in its nature and its office it is essentially different from both the one and the other. The judgment in "Smith v. the Union Bank of London" concludes with the remark that—
  "If the statute had meant to prevent any person from becoming lawful holder of a crossed cheque, unless he derived title through lawful holders—this ought to have been expressed;"
  and a learned writer (B), in a letter to The Economist of 1st January last, suggested these words—
  "Any person taking a cheque crossed with a banker's name or & Co. in transverse lines, shall have no better title to it than the person of whom he took it had."
  Assuming the necessity for some definition of the "true owner," this clause
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  seems well fitted for its purpose, and it appeared in the Lord Chancellor's Bill, but with the substitution of the words "crossed specially" for the word "crossed." The word "specially" struck out when the clause first came under the consideration of the Committee, was re-inserted when the Bill came again unexpectedly under revision in a thin House. Not one crossed cheque out of 100 is crossed "specially." The cheques used in payment of the dividends of the public funds, of the dividends of railway companies and others, are cheques payable to "order" and crossed "& Co."—it cannot be otherwise. The Bank of England and the various public companies know the names of their payees, but they do not the bankers of those payees—many of whom indeed have no banker—but the system pursued has been found convenient, and has been thought to be secure. The insecurity disclosed by the judgment in Smith's case, it has been professedly the object of the present Bill to remove; but by the insertion of the word "specially" in the 12th clause the great mass of crossed cheques are deprived even of the protection which earlier statutes were supposed to give them, for in accordance with the legal axiom "expressio unius est exclusio alterius" the thief barred from a title through possession of a cheque crossed specially, is recognized as acquiring a title through possession of a cheque crossed generally. This result seems a remarkable and highly unsatisfactory achievement of a Bill introduced for the purpose of protecting crossed cheques from loss arising in the carelessness of bankers and the dishonesty of thieves. Apprehensions have been expressed that the business effected through the medium of crossed cheques, passing from hand to hand, against which, when once paid, value is freely given without the fear of ulterior risk, would be materially obstructed if invalidity of title to a cheque, or, in other words, the discovery that it had been stolen, were to be the occasion of a call for restitution from the receiver of the amount. That transactions adjusted through such a medium take place, may be admitted, but I contend that it is neither necessary, expedient, nor just, that a circulating medium of crossed cheques should be substituted for the legal currency of coin or bank notes in

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  small transactions or for the use of cheques drawn for the occasion in larger ones. A qualified purchaser can have no difficulty in providing a legitimate means of payment. No public advantage is attained by prolonging the circulation of a cheque, while every days' delay in its presentation is injurious to the drawer, since the failure of the banker on whom he draws would leave the intended payment unaccomplished. The payee whose definitive acquisition of its amount is thus postponed is also injuriously affected by the deferred satisfaction of a cheque, and no one, in truth, benefits by its circulation except the banker, who retains its amount for his own benefit, contrary to the interest and intention of his depositor. This benefit is no legitimate banking profit. In "another place" an eminent lawyer expounding the Lord Chancellor's Bill, remarked—
  "That the object of the Cheque Bank was, that its cheques crossed generally should pass over the counter and from hand to hand like money,"
  and he deprecated any interference with that practice; but, Sir, I venture to assert that this practice is a distinct evasion of the Currency Laws, which prohibit the creation of a spurious paper currency for private advantage, and claim the right of issuing credit notes for the Crown alone in the interest of the community. I commend the doctrine of the Lord Chancellor on this subject to the serious consideration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. There may, I will admit, be inconvenience in a sudden change of system, even though it be a manifest improvement, and I have already intimated that I should be satisfied if the 12th clause commenced thus—"A person taking a crossed cheque 'payable to order' shall not have," &c.—the effect of this discrimination would be to leave cheques payable to "bearer" subject to the free handling and consequent risks which now affect them, but it would secure to the drawer of the cheque to "order" the power of effectually indicating that the order for the transfer of a given sum from himself to the payee should be consummated at the earliest moment. This, surely, is no unreasonable demand. A crossed cheque to "order" need not be stamped with the words "not negotiable," its construction ought to suffice to indicate its proper treatment. It may, and must
  1214
  in some cases, as heretofore, find persons ready to assist the payee, and become the medium through whom it would be realized, but it would be taken by each intermediary, including the receiving banker in dependence upon the giver, whose indorsement should furnish a ready resort for redress in case of theft if such occurred, but thefts which could not be utilized would quickly cease. My proposal has not, however, been accepted by the Government, and therefore to return to this Bill, I have to say that Clause 12 is at variance with the earlier part of the Bill and with itself. The 7th and 10thclauses protect all crossed cheques; the 12th clause limits its protection to cheques crossed specially. The same individual who, as the "person" taking from the thief the stolen cheque, is in the first paragraph of the 12th clause declared to have no title to the cheque, is in the second paragraph, as a "banker," absolved from all liability to the true owner of the cheque, of which he (the banker) has received the amount. I think, therefore, that the proper course would be this—either to let the whole Bill stand over (as the matter is one of great moment), or to let the first 11 clauses, which are perfectly unimpeachable, stand by themselves and become law; and in another year, if it be necessary, the measure that is now passed could be supplemented. On these grounds I have to move that this Bill be re-committed, and if is re-committed, I shall move the ex-elusion of the 12th clause. I will only add one word in conclusion. I hope I shall not be supposed to be arguing this question with a feeling adverse to the bankers. It would be absurd for me to do that. I have for many years myself been connected with a banking institution quite as important as any represented in this House, I mean the Bank of England, of which I was Governor in 1854, when the Bill passed which originated the use of "cheques to order," and it was upon my suggestion that the 19th section was inserted, giving a protection to bankers, without which they could not have accepted the working of such cheques at all. But deeply as I am interested in the Bank of England, I do not hesitate to say that even if it incurred any risk through the provisions which I advocate, such a consideration would never induce me to take a course

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  which I did not think would be for the advantage of the whole community. I have, Sir, only now to move that the Bill be re-committed.
  MR. E. HUBBARDseconded the Amendment.
  Amendment proposed, to leave out the words "now read the third time," in order to insert the word "re-committed."—(Mr. J. G. Hubbard.)
  THE ATTORNEY GENERAL,in opposing the Amendment, said, he had a compromise to propose which he hoped would meet with general acceptance. The necessity for that Bill, as the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the City of London (Mr. J. G. Hubbard) stated, had been occasioned by reason of the decision in Smith against the Union Bank of London. A cheque in that case was given by Mill to Smith, or rather was made payable to the order of Smith, and was crossed to a particular banker. It was drawn upon the Union Bank of London. When it got into the hands of Smith, the payee, he endorsed it, and it became payable to bearer and a negotiable instrument. It was then stolen and passed through various hands until it came into the hands of a person who gave value for it and took it without notice, and who was, therefore, entitled to it. It was presented, not to the Bank to which it was crossed, but to the London and Westminster Bank, and by an error on the part of the Union Bank of London, it was paid to the London and Westminster Bank. Smith then brought his action against the Union Bank of London because it had disobeyed the injunction of the Act of Parliament by paying the cheque to the London and Westminster Bank instead of to the Bank to which it was crossed. The Court of Queen's Bench, and afterwards the Court of Appeal, decided that Smith, who had lost his cheque, could not recover against the Union Bank of London, because if that Bank had not paid the cheque to the London and Westminster Bank the cheque would have been in the hands of a person who had a title to it; that Smith, therefore, could not have got it; and that thus, though the provisions of the Act had been disobeyed, Smith had not been damnified. That decision, which seemed to him in strict accordance with law, gave rise to much
  1216
  alarm among the commercial community, which desired that some mode should be invented by which a cheque should be made safe, and a remedy given to the person from whom it had been stolen if the paying bank chose to disregard the provisions of the statute. To accomplish that object this Bill had been introduced. But it was also desirable, as far as possible, to avoid interfering with the negotiability of cheques. It would be most disastrous to trade if within six years somebody could come down on a firm which had received a cheque as so much money, and had applied it to the benefit of a customer, and require them to refund. What they wanted was a means by which a cheque should be secure from the depredation of thieves and from the carelessness of bankers. He therefore proposed to re-commit the Bill, in order so to frame the 12th clause as that the person taking a cheque should not have a better title in it, or be capable of giving to another person a better title to it than the man from whom he took it, and to make that provision applicable to a cheque crossed generally or specially, and bearing in either case as part of the crossing the words "not negotiable." He would in such cases exempt them from liability, unless they should be proved to have acted with negligence. He thought that what he proposed would meet the views of his right hon. Friend and of those who desired that the provisions of the Bill should not unnecessarily restrain the negotiability of a cheque. Cheques crossed generally or specially he would leave as they were now. If that proposal would meet the views of the right hon. Gentleman, the re-committal of the Bill would be assented to.
  Question, "That the words 'now read the third time,' stand part of the Question," put, and negatived.
  Question proposed, "That the word 're-committed' be there inserted."
  SIR SYDNEY WATERLOWsaid, he was opposed to undue restrictions on cheques generally crossed, which constituted the large bulk of cheques. He therefore thought that Clause 12 should be restored to its original form by leaving out the words "specially crossed." It would be an injury to the public to

  1217
  prevent the circulation of such cheques and to compel them to resort to bank-notes and gold in lieu of them. He believed the words suggested would remove all difficulty, and he therefore trusted they would he accepted, and the omission of the 12th clause resisted. It gave what we did not now possess—a form of cheque which was absolutely protected; for at present a cheque specially crossed was not so protected. We should then have four kinds of cheques—open, payable to bearer; open, payable to order, which could not be cashed by the wrong person without his committing forgery; generally crossed, payable to order, which must be paid by banker to banker; and crossed specially, in which the holders would have no more right than the persons from whom they received them, and which would facilitate the payment of large sums direct to the bankers of the persons entitled to the money.
  MR. RUSSELL GURNEYthought that they were under very great obligation to his right hon. Friend the Member for the City of London (Mr. J. G. Hubbard) for bringing the subject forward, and he trusted his right hon. Friend would accept the Amendment suggested by the hon. and learned Attorney General, for it would, at all events, meet the greater part, if not all, of his objection.
  THE LORD MAYOR (Mr. Alderman Cotton)said, the Bill ought to be more truthfully described as a Bankers' Bill, its main object being their protection; indeed, Clause 12 was the only clause which could be said to protect the public. The argument had been that unless the word "specially" were in Clause 12 it would prevent the due circulation of cheques crossed "and Co.," but that would not be so, because there was the facility of crossing cheques paying to bearer. Cheques crossed "and Co" ought not to be taken over the counter except from a person who was well known. He did not exactly know what was meant by the words "not negotiable," for crossed cheques ought to be negotiable. They ought to be content to have the word "specially" taken out of the clause, and if the hon. and learned Attorney General consented to the omission of that word he, and those who concurred with his right hon. Friend the Member for the City of
  1218
  London, would be perfectly content with the Bill. If not, however, they would prefer that the Bill should stand over until next Session.
  SIR JOSEPH M'KENNAthought the hon. and learned Attorney General's words were rather too restrictive, and suggested the words, "not otherwise negotiable." He entirely agreed in the opinions expressed by the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. J. G. Hubbard).
  MR. MARTENthought the proposed Amendment of the hon. and learned Attorney General would meet the object in view, which was to protect cheques against thieves. As to the general question of negotiability of cheques, he had communicated with several persons of experience in the country, and they agreed in thinking that as to many parts of the country it would be most unadvisable that the negotiability of cheques should be interfered with, except by some such process as that proposed by the hon. and learned Gentleman.
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALsaid, he was willing to agree that the Bill should be re-committed for the purpose of making alterations in Clauses 4, 5, and 12, and would move accordingly.
  Amendment proposed to the said proposed Amendment to add, at the end, the words "in respect of Clauses 4, 5, and 12."—(Mr. Attorney General.)
  MR. J. G. HUBBARDsaid, he should have preferred the re-commitment of the Bill generally.
  Question, "That those words be there added," put, and agreed to.
  Amendment, as amended, put, and agreed to.
  Main Question, as amended, put, and agreed to.
  Bill re-committed in respect of Clauses 4, 5, and 12.
  Bill considered in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  Clause 4 (General and special crossings).
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALmoved, as an Amendment, in page 1, line 24,

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  to insert after the word "banker" the words "and either with or without the words" 'not negotiable.' "
  THE LORD MAYOR (Mr. Alderman Cotton)wished to know how the Amendment would affect Clause 12?
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALsaid, that he wanted Clause 12 to apply only to cheques crossed specially or generally, but bearing the words "not negotiable."
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause, as amended, agreed to.
  Clause 5 (Crossing after issue).
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALmoved, as an Amendment, in page 2, after "collection," to insert as a separate paragraph, "where a cheque is crossed generally or specially the lawful owner may add the words 'not negotiable.' "
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause, as amended, agreed to.
  Clause 12 (Title of holder of cheque crossed specially).
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALmoved, as an Amendment, in page 3, line 10, after the word "cheque," to insert the words "crossed generally or specially, and bearing in either case the words 'not negotiable,'" in lieu of the words "crossed generally or specially to himself."
  MR. BUTTobserved, that the effect of the Amendment would be to exempt from liability a careless banker, who, receiving a cheque from a person who had stolen it, collected the amount and handed it over to the thief.
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALsaid, that the banker would rely upon the respectability of his customer. He would only collect a cheque for a person whom he knew, and that person would be liable, as he ought to be, in the case suggested by his hon. and learned Friend.
  SIR JOSEPH M'KENNAsaid, that if the banker accounted to the wrong person he ought to be held responsible.
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALsaid, that if he had two cheques, one not crossed and the other crossed in the manner contemplated by the Amendment, and that he brought them as he would do to his bankers, they would in
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  due course collect the amounts and hand them over or place them to his credit, and, having done all that they could be reasonably called upon to do, they ought not to be held responsible.
  MR. J. G. HUBBARDobserved, that if one of the two cheques had been stolen and came into the hands of the hon. and learned Gentleman, and through him to his banker, such banker ought to be primarily liable to be the true owner for the amount of the stolen cheque.
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALsaid, in the case suggested, the true owner would have his remedy as against him (the Attorney General), and if he had received the stolen cheque from his right hon. Friend, then the remedy would lie against both of them, even if he had received the cheque bonâ fide from his right hon. Friend.
  SIR SYDNEY WATERLOWsaid, that the banker would know his customer, and they could not suppose he would not give up the name.
  THE LORD MAYOR (Mr. Alderman Cotton)said, the banker would have no right to present a cheque from a disreputable person, and if the cheque were stolen the owner could fall back upon the customer from whom the banker had collected the amount.
  Amendment agreed to.
  On Question, "That the clause, as amended, be agreed to?"
  MR. BUTTsuggested the propriety of omitting the last five lines of the clause. He said that the clause provided that a person who took a cheque marked "not negotiable," should not have or be capable of giving a better title than that which the person from whom he took it had; but there was a further provision, which he thought it would be desirable to omit. It was to this effect—that a banker who had in good faith and without negligence received payment for a customer of such a cheque should not, in case the title to the cheque should prove defective, incur any liability to the true owner of the cheque by reason only of having received such payment.
  MR. WHITWELLadvised that legislation on the subject should be suspended until next Session, and moved to report Progress.
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALsaid, that the House was quite competent to deal with the matter at once.
  THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (Mr. W. H.SMITH)said, he must remind the Committee that there was no Amendment before them.
  Question put, and agreed to.
  House resumed.
  Bill reported.
  Motion made, and Question, "That the Bill, as amended, be considered,"—(Mr. Attorney General,)—put, and agreed to.
  MR. BUTTsaid, that he did not see why, if they made every other person who took a cheque marked "not negotiable" answer for the channel from which it had come, they should stop at the banker, and place him in a position of non-responsibility in negotiating cheques which had been crossed. He would therefore move that the last paragraph of the clause be omitted.
  Amendment proposed, in page 3, line 8, to leave out from the word "had" to the word "payment," in line 13, inclusive.—(Mr. Butt.)
  Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."
  SIR GEORGE BOWYERsaid, the banker received the money on a cheque for a customer, and therefore the customer ought to be held liable.
  THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, that the matter had been argued at considerable length, and was ripe for decision. The point was that the banker stood in a different position from the customers inasmuch as he merely received the money for his customer, who certainly ought to bear the responsibility in the event of the cheque having been improperly obtained.
  Question put.
  The House divided:—Ayes 61; Noes 16: Majority 45.
  Bill read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.

MERCHANT SHIPPING BILL.

  LORDS' CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENT.
  MR. SPEAKERsaid, that the Lords had agreed to the Amendments in this Bill which this House had made in their Amendments, and did not insist on those to which this House had disagreed, but had made a consequential Amendment to which they desired the concurrence of this House.
  Said consequential Amendment read by the Clerk at the Table.
  SIR CHARLES ADDERLEYmoved that the House agree with the Lords in the said Amendment. The new clause ran in the same form as the clause relating to foreign-going vessels, its terms being only adapted to coasters.
  MR. T. E. SMITHsaid, the clause appeared to him to be suited to attain the object in view.
  MR. PLIMSOLLexpressed his satisfaction that the penalty attached to submerging a vessel below the load-line would be applicable to coasters as well as to foreign-going ships.
  Motion agreed to.

ELEMENTARY EDUCATION BILL.

  CONSIDERATION OF LORDS' AMENDMENTS.
  Lords' Amendments considered.
  VISCOUNT SANDON,in moving that the Lords' Amendments be agreed to, explained that they were all of a simply formal and verbal character, and did not involve any question of principle.
  MR. WHALLEYtook occasion to offer his humble protest against the whole Bill, from the Preamble to the Schedules. It was not an Education Bill, and it was in no sense elementary.
  MR. SPEAKERcalled the hon. Member to Order, observing that his observations were not relevant to the specific Amendments under consideration.
  Motion agreed to.

  PHŒNIX PARK (DUBLIN)—WHITEFIELD LODGE.—MOTION FOR PAPERS.
  MR. BUTT: moved for Copies of any Correspondence between the Lords of the Treasury and the Commissioners of

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  Public Works in Ireland on the subject of letting Whitefield Lodge, Phœnix Park.
  Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; House counted, and 40 Members being found present—
  SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHsaid, he had not been aware that it had been decided to let Whitefield Lodge for so long a term as 75 years, and saw no objection to the production of the Correspondence.
  Motion agreed to.
  Copies ordered, "of any Correspondence between the Lords of the Treasury and the Commissioners of Public Works in Ireland on the subject of letting Whitefield Lodge in the Phœnix Park:"
  "Of any Minutes of the Commissioners of Public Works relating thereto:"
  "Of the advertisement offering the lands for letting:"
  "And, of any proposals made for the taking of the house and lands."

LAND TENURE (IRELAND).

  ADDRESS FOR A ROYAL COMMISSION.
  THE O'DONOGHUErose to call attention to the state of Land Tenure in Ireland, and to move—
  "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that She may be graciously pleased to issue a Royal Commission to inquire into and report upon the state of Land Tenure in Ireland and the condition of the occupiers of land."
  The question was a most important one to the occupiers of land in Ireland, who numbered 650,000, and amongst whom there was but one opinion, and that was that the present state of the question could not be endured by them. On the other hand, it was said by the landlords that the condition of the occupiers of land under them in Ireland was one that, they ought to be satisfied with, and such as any man of industry might reasonably be satisfied with. The occupiers of land, on their part, stated that they had no security of tenure but what the landowners choose to give them. The farmers complained of their uncertainty of tenure, and that while they occupied their land at a fair rent, they were yet in a state requiring security for their holdings, and they were therefore desirous that a
  1224
  Royal Commission should issue to inquire into the Land Tenure question in Ireland.
  Notice taken, that 40 Members were not present; House counted, and 40 Members not being present,
  House adjourned at ten minutes after Six o'clock.