Commons Sitting of 18 July 1848

MINUTES.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Dorchester, for a Better Observance of the Lord's Day.—By Colonel Dunne, from the Guardians of the Nenagh Union, for an Alteration of the Poor Law (Ireland).—By Viscount Melgund, from Shipowners, and Others, of Greenock, against the Repeal of the Navigation Laws.—By Sir Charles Lemon, from the Guardians of the Falmouth Union, in favour of Free Emigration.—By Lord George Bentinck, from Officers of the King's Lynn Union, in favour of a Superannuation Fund for Poor Law Officers.—By Viscount Ebrington, from the Parish of Burbage, Leicestershire, for an Alteration of the Law of Rating and Settlement.—By Viscount Ebrington, from the Committee of the Plymouth Mechanics' Institute, against the Scientific Societies Bill.

HIGHWAYS BILL.
On the question that the Speaker do now leave the chair,
SIR H. WILLOUGHBYobjected to the Bill altogether, because he believed it would operate oppressively on the agricultural districts of the country, by imposing fresh burdens upon them, which, now that they had to compete with foreign producers of corn, they were ill able to bear. If it was the pleasure of the Legislature that the island should be intersected with fine roads, he considered that that was more a national than a local concern.
MR. G. HEATHCOTE, having received several communications from the most influential and intelligent of his constituents on the subject of the Bill, felt obliged also to oppose it. When so many Bills were to be postponed, he did not think that postponing one more would do much harm.
MR. CHRISTOPHERreminded the hon. Member who had just spoken, that the present Bill differed materially from the Bill of last year. The Bill of last year proposed that there should be a paid Commission appointed by Government, which should have the control of the highways. But the present Bill left the management
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of the highways in general to local control. If he thought that the present Bill would impose additional burdens on the agricultural districts of the country, as supposed by the hon. Member for Evesham, he would have joined that hon. Member in opposing it; but it was because he believed it would diminish the expenditure of those districts that he supported it.
SIR G. GREYsaid, the only substantial objection urged against the Bill of last year was that relating to a central commission; and the House having expressed an opinion adverse to that proposal, the Government undertook, in deference to the wish of the House, to bring in another Bill without that proposal. He must say, however, that if a Bill was to be opposed, on the one hand because it proposed a central commission, and on the other hand because it left the management to local control, there could be no amendment of the highways at all. The hen. Member for Evesham had objected to the Bill because it imposed a burden on the agriculturists. For his own part, he considered that, so far from this being the case, it was conferring on them a great advantage, inasmuch as he knew no way so likely to assist them in the competition to which they were now liable, as to give them increased facilities of communication by means of good roads. The Bill had been well considered by a Select Committee; and as all the Gentlemen who formed that Committee were anxious that it should proceed as speedily as possible through that House, he hoped they would at once go into Committee on it for that purpose.
MR. HENLEYwished this Bill to be postponed to another Session, because its principle had not been discussed, and its provisions were not understood by the country. He thought the House would act unwisely to set up a machinery which would not be applicable to turnpike roads as well as to highways. At present, turnpike roads were going on satisfactorily, so far as the expense was concerned, it having decreased in a ratio that was favourable to the revenue; but they were in a most unsatisfactory condition in respect to the charge upon them on account of the staff for maintaining them. He therefore would suggest whether an amalgamation of the turnpike and highway trusts might not be effected. Before harassing the country with the cumbrous machinery of this new system, that question ought to be considered, not by the Government only, but by

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the Parliament also. If the right hon. Gentleman would make it permissive to the counties to carry either a part or the whole of the measure into operation, he would then consent to leave the matter to the calm understanding and good sense of those bodies; but unless that option were given, he should feel it his duty to move that the further consideration of the Bill be postponed till that day six months.
SIR G. GREYobjected to enter upon a desultory discussion of the different provisions of the measure, before the House had gone into a Committee upon it.
MR. R. PALMERexpressed his disappointment at not finding the present measure included among those which the noble Lord at the head of the Government yesterday stated it to be his intention to postpone till the next Session of Parliament. The Bill had so recently come from the Select Committee, that it had been scarcely considered in any county in England. The preamble stated that it was desirable the roads and highways should be placed under one and the same control, in order that they might be managed more efficiently and more economically. It might be a question whether they could be placed under the same control, because there were many local and geographical circumstances that might render it impracticable; but, at all events, he doubted whether, if practicable, it would be a more economical system than the present.
SIR W. HEATHCOTEagreed with the hon. Member for Oxfordshire, that unless the Bill could be improved in Committee, it ought to stand over till another year. He was desirous of seeing the bridges, which at present formed a great item of the county expense, come under the supervision of those persons who bad to provide facilities for locomotion in the county.
After some further conversation.
The House divided:—Ayes 88; Noes 34: Majority 54.

List of the AYES.

Abdy, T. N.

Campbell, hon. W. F.

Adair, R. A. S.

Cavendish, hon. G. H.

Alcock, T.

Childers, J. W.

Armstrong, R. B.

Christopher, R. A.

Barrington, Visct.

Clifford, H. M.

Bernal, R.

Compton, H. C.

Bowring, Dr.

Davie, Sir H. R. F.

Boyle, hon. Col.

Deedes, W.

Brotherton, J.

Drumlanrig, Visct.

Brown, W.

Drummond, H.

Browne, R. D.

Duckworth, Sir J. T. B.

Buxton, Sir E. N.

Duncan, G.

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Duncuft, J.

Morison, Sir W.

Dundas, Sir D.

Morris, D.

Elliot, hon. J. E.

Nugent, Sir P.

Emlyn, Visct.

Paget, Lord C.

Ewart, W.

Parker, J.

Foley, J. H. H.

Perfect, R.

Forster, M.

Pinney, W.

Fortescue, C.

Pusey, P.

Freestun, Col.

Ricardo, O.

Greene, T.

Rice, E. R.

Grenfell, C. W.

Rich, H.

Haggitt, F. R.

Russell, F. C. H.

Hardcastle, J. A.

Seymer, H. K.

Hastie, A.

Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.

Hawes, B.

Shelburne, Earl of

Hay, Lord J.

Sheridan, R. B.

Hayter, W. G.

Simeon, J.

Heathcote, Sir W.

Slaney, R. A.

Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir J.

Thicknesse, R. A.

Hobhouse, T. B.

Thompson, Col.

Hood, Sir A.

Townley, R. G.

Howard, P. H.

Trollope, Sir J.

Ingestre, Visct.

Tynte, Col.

Jolliffe, Sir W. G. H.

Verney, Sir H.

Kershaw, J.

Villiers, Visct.

Langston, J. H.

Villiers, hon. F. W. C.

Lascelles, hon. E.

Wawn, J. T.

Lascelles, hon. W. S.

Wilson, M.

Lewis, G. C.

Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.

M'Cullagh, W. T.

Wyvill, M.

Matheson, Col.

Milner, W. M. E.

TELLERS.

Moffatt, G.

Tufnell, H.

Moody, C. A.

Hill, Lord M.

List of the NOES.

Arkwright, G.

Gwyn, H.

Bateson, T.

Heald, J.

Bentinck, Lord G.

Heathcote, G. J.

Bentinck, Lord H.

Hodges, T. L.

Beresford, W.

Hudson, G.

Boldero, H. G.

Keogh, W.

Bremridge, R.

Manners, Lord C. S.

Buck, L. W.

Newdegate, C. N.

Carew, W. H. P.

Palmer, R.

Coles, H. B.

Pechell, Capt.

Cubitt, W.

Pigott, F.

Davies, D. A. S.

Pugh, D.

Egerton, W. T.

Stafford, A.

Farnham, E. B.

Waddington, H. S.

Floyer, J.

Willoughby, Sir H.

Frewen, C. H.

Fuller, A. E.

TELLERS.

Galwav, Visct.

Henley, J. W.

Gore, W. O.

Spooner, R.

House in Committee.
Some clauses were agreed to.
House resumed. Committee to sit again.
House afterwards counted out, and adjourned at a quarter after Five o'clock.