Commons Sitting of 29 January 1847

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2o Chelsea Pensions; Distilling from Sugar; Customs' Duties.
Reported.—Buck Wheat, &c. Importation.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Castleton, for Limiting the Hours of Labour in Factories.—From Shipowners of Seilly, for carrying into effect the Recommendations of the Select Committee with respect to Lighthouses.—From Callan, for Repeal of the Union.—From North Riding of Tipperary, and Maryborough East, for the Adoption of Measures for the Relief of Destitution in Ireland.—From Chairman of a Meeting of the Inhabitants of Ballymena, for Amendment of the County Works Presentments (Ireland) Act.

PRIVATE BILLS.
MR. HUMEbrought under the notice of the House three Resolutions of which he had given notice. They were as follow:—

"1. That Public General Acts should be prepared for each of the several subjects of Police and Watching, of Waterworks and Sewage, of Paying, of Improvement of Towns and Regulation of Buildings, Streets, and Roads, of Markets and Fairs, of Cemeteries, of Bridges and Ferries, of Harbours, Docks, Ports, Piers, and Quays, of Canals, Rivers, and Navigation, as recommended in the Report of the Select Committee on Private Bills, embodying, as far as possible, the suggestions thereof.

"2. That the recommendation in the said Report as to the taxation of the costs of parties promoting or opposing Private Bills be also adopted, and that a proper taxing officer should be appointed, and a scale of fees, costs, and charges, be authorized and published by Mr. Speaker.

"3. That the Taxing Officer shall present to the House, at the commencement of each Session, an account of the total amount of the expenses for promoting or opposing each Bill taxed and sanctioned by him during the preceding Session, distinguishing the amount paid as fees on each Bill to each of the Houses of Parliament, the amount for witnesses and other expenses, and for professional services."

The hon. Member stated, that since the passing of the Reform Act, private Bills had cost the town of Liverpool no less than between 80,000 l. and 90,000 l., while the expense of similar Bills to Glasgow had been 57,000 l, It had been proved before the Committee on Private Bills, that solicitors charged four or five times as much for business in Parliament as for other bu-
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siness. The hon. Member concluded by moving his first Resolution.
SIR G. GREYadmitted the great importance of the subject, but submitted that before the House pledged itself by adopting any resolution, it would be expedient to see the Bill now nearly prepared, and which would have for object the consolidation of special clauses in many private Bills. That measure now would have been upon the Table, but for the unforeseen pressure of other business. The resolutions of the hon. Member, if adopted, could hardly be brought into operation during the present Session, so that little delay would be caused by waiting for the promised Bill. Last Session he had taken objection to the second and third resolutions, since they could only he carried into effect by an Act of Parliament.
MR. HUDSONremarked upon the enormous fees paid to the House for Bills for the improvement of towns, &c., amounting in some cases to nearly as much as the whole of the other charges. That was one great reason why the public was so unwilling to come before Parliament. He hoped that a Committee would be appointed to inquire into the subject, as the charges for passing private Bills had increased four or fivefold within a few years: the burden had now become almost intolerable.
MR. HUMEwas willing to withdraw his resolutions until the Bill adverted to by the Secretary for the Home Department had been brought under the consideration of the House.
MR. GREENEwished the hon. Member to make a distinction between the fees paid to the House, and the charges of lawyers. A very large part of the expense of a private Bill went into the hands of agents and solicitors, over whom the House had no efficient control.
LORD H. VANEwas glad that the attention of the House had been called to the subject of the fees payable to the House. He hoped that when the hon. Member for Sunderland produced the accounts of which he had spoken, he would distinguish between the fees paid to the House, and those paid to agents and solicitors.
Resolutions withdrawn.

MEXICAN LETTERS OF MARQUE.
MR. BARCLAYwished to call the attention of the noble Lord at the head of the Department for Foreign Affairs, and

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also the attention of the House, to an advertisement which appeared in The Times of the 8th of January, relating to Mexican letters of marque. It was forty years since any letter of marque had been issued, and he had entertained the hope that the improved civilization of Europe would have prevented the issue of such atrocious documents again. He wished to ask if the noble Lord's attention had been called to this document, and what measures had been taken on the part of the Government to suppress such atrocious proceedings? Before he sat down he would refer to an extract in the Courrier Français, by which it was declared that any French subjects who made use of the letters of marque would expose themselves to forfeit their quality as Frenchmen, and to be treated as pirates.
VISCOUNT PALMERSTONobserved, that if his hon. Friend had been in the House on a former occasion he would have heard a similar question put by the hon. and learned Member for Bath, and the answer which he had given to the first part of his question. He explained at the time that this advertisement was not issued by the Mexican Consul, but proceeded from a very well-meaning, and no doubt very expert, gunmaker on Tower-hill, stating that a Mexican letter of marque might be seen at his shop. He however communicated with General Mendoza, the Mexican chargé d'affaires, on the subject, and he stated that nobody was at present authored by Mexico in this country to issue letters of marque. General Mendoza had sent him a copy of the decree and regulations under which those letters were issued, and he had referred them to the law advisers of the Crown, and the Queen's Advocate, to see how far issuing such letters of marque here would be consistent with the laws of this country. Every one knew, that under the Foreign Enlistment Act, it was not competent to the subjects of this country to equip vessels destined for any hostile purpose against any other nation, without the consent of the Crown; and it was under the provisions of that Act that those vessels were lately seized which formed part of an intended expedition under the command of General Flores, and another which it was supposed was intended to act on the coast of Portugal. With regard to the other part of his hon. Friend's question, there was no power on the part of the Government to interfere with British subjects abroad; and he confessed he should be re-
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luctant to say that they might be treated as pirates, unless by the law of nations their conduct was considered to be piratical.

DISTRESS IN SCOTLAND.
MR. F. DUNDASwished to ask what were the intentions of the Government with regard to the increasing destitution in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, observing that the Drainage Act was inoperative in Zetland, where the distress was very great.
SIR G. GREYsaid, that as the question put by the hon. Member was almost the same as that of which notice had been given by the hon. Member for Lymington, he would take that opportunity of answering both. The Government had it not in contemplation to establish any general system of relief in the Islands and Western Highlands of Scotland, in addition to those measures which had been already proposed with the view of mitigating the distress which prevailed in that portion of the empire. The means of which the Government had availed themselves in order to mitigate that distress, had been, in the first place, advances made under the Drainage Act of last Session, which had come in aid of that distress most opportunely and extensively, and had effected the most beneficial results, satisfying, as it did, the proprietors of the probable increased value of their land, and affording very extensive relief to a large portion of distressed labourers. In addision to this, the Government had established depôts for the sale of food; these depôts being two frigates, one of which was stationed at Tobermory, and the other at Skye; in addition to which there were Government steamers, and commissariat officers, who were directed to make inquiries, and give such assistance as was necessary. He believed that these measures had been very available in supplying the people of those districts with food, who otherwise would have been in want of the necesssries of life. Besides this, parties who applied to the Loan Commissioners might obtain loans of money, to be expended on public works, on giving security for its repayment. A loan of that kind had actually been made. In addition to this, grants had been made in a few instances to meet local subscriptions, and to relieve distress where the Scotch poor law had been found to be inefficient. He hoped that by those means the severity of the calamity in Scotland might not only be

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mitigated, but that by the exertions of the landed proprietors, who showed every disposition to meet the misfortune, Scotland would be brought safely through the present crisis.
MR. MACKINNONobserved, that one question which he had wished to put had not been answered, and that was whether, as it was the intention of the Government to advance a sum of money for the purchase of seed for corn and potatoes in Ireland, they were willing to have equal justice done to Scotland. He did not say that seed was wanted in the Highlands; but if it should be required there, probably there would be no objection, on the part of the Government, to afford them the same assistance as was to be given to Ireland.
SIR G. GREYsaid, that no such application had been made at present; but that, if made, it would certainly be taken into consideration by the Government.

DISTILLATION FROM SUGAR BILL.
On the Question, that the Distillation from Sugar Bill be read a Second Time,
MR. FORBES MACKENZIEsaid, the Bill had not been printed more than half an hour; and he, therefore, trusted the second reading would be postponed.
MR. HUMEdid not see any reason why the second reading should be postponed. The hon. Gentleman could not object to the principle of the Bill; and if the details did not meet his views, the hon. Gentleman could object to them in Committee.
MR. MACKENZIEcould not say whether he agreed to the principle of a Bill or not before he had read it.
The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, that this Bill had nothing in the world in view but to carry out the resolution which the House had already agreed to. The whole question had been stated by himself to the House more than a week ago, and the resolution was agreed to unanimously. He had then understood that nobody objected to the resolution, and that some hon. Members only wished to consider some of the details in Committee. He trusted, therefore, that no opposition would be offered to the Bill in its present stage.
MR. MACKENZIEwished to know if there was any information, with respect to this Bill, in the papers which were to be produced to-morrow.
The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, that he was very sorry that those papers were not in the hands of the
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Members at that moment; they were delayed in consequence of a great number of calculations which were to be inserted. They would, however, be ready by tomorrow morning, or, at the latest, on Monday.
Bill read a second time.
House adjourned at ten minutes to Six o'clock.