Commons Sitting of 30 March 1846

MINUTES.
NEW MEMBER SWORN. For Mayo, Joseph Myles M'Donnell.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2°. Art Unions.
3°. and passed. Indemnity.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. John Tollemache, from Electors of the Southern Division of the County of Chester, alleging Fraudulent Objections to Votes of Electors.—By Mr. Bright, from Inhabitants of the Town of Northallerton, for Better Observance of the Lord's Day.—By Mr. Baskerville, and Viscount Clive, from several places, against the Union of St. Asaph and Bangor Dioceses.—By Mr. Bright, from Inhabitants of West Dean, Coleford, and Bilston, for Repeal of the Corn Laws.—By Mr. Hume, from Merchants, Tradesmen, Artificers, and Inhabitants of Ballinasloe, for Alteration of Law respecting Grand
288
Jury Presentments (Ireland).—By Mr. Tatton Egerton, from Handloom Weavers of Wilmslow and its Vicinity, for Regulation of their Trade.—By Mr. Robert Palmer, from Ratepayers of Appleford, for Repeal or Alteration of the Lunatic Asylums and Pauper Lunatics Act.—By Mr. Bright, from Inhabitants of Uxbridge, Stoke Holy Cross, and Chesham, against Enrolment of Militia.—By Mr. Thomas Duncombe, from Board of Guardians of Reeth Union, for Alteration of the Poor Law.—By Sir James Graham, from High Sheriff and Grand Jury of the County of Leitrim, assembled at Spring Assizes, in favour of the Protection for Life (Ireland) Bill.—By Mr. Elphinstone, from John Frederick Stanford, Esq., of Foley House, Langham Place, London, for Restrictive Regulations respecting Railways.—By Mr. Brotherton, from Members of the Manchester and Salford Peace Society, for referring Foreign Disputes to Arbitration.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.
SIR J. GRAHAMwas bound, in accordance with the strict Orders of the House, to state that he could not, without the permission of the House, make the Motion which he was about to move. The strict rule of the House was this—that on Mondays and Fridays Orders of the Day should have precedence of notices of Motion. It was not possible, then, for him, without its permission, to make the Motion that a certain Bill—the Protection of Life (Ireland) Bill, should be read a first time. He had therefore to move—
"That the Orders of the Day be now read, for the purpose of their being postponed until after the Motion for reading the Protection of Life (Ireland) Bill a first time, of which Notice has been given."
SIR W. SOMERVILLErose to move that all the words after the word "being" be omitted from the Motion. He wished that the Motion of the right hon. Baronet should be negatived, and the Orders of the Day be now read, in order to be proceeded with. In doing so it was not necessary for him to trouble the House at great length. It was not his wish to embarrass Her Majesty's Government; but it was his wish to call the attention of the House to the great inconvenience that must be occasioned by postponing a measure which had now occupied a great length of time, which had absorbed much of their attention, in which were involved the hopes and the wishes of the people of England, and identified with which, he might justly and truly say, were the interests of this great Empire. Such a measure as that, for the settlement of which they were all anxious, was now before them; and the question they had to ask themselves was this, ought it to be postponed, in order that the Government might bring forward a Bill, certain to produce a long, an exciting, and an exasperating debate—to bring forward a Bill, and to

289
agitate a subject, which it was not the intention of the Government to press at the present moment; but which was now only to be moved for the purpose of its being postponed to a future day? It was not, he thought, necessary for him to enlarge upon the great inconvenience that must be suffered from the postponement of the Corn Bill. None, he believed, could be more aware of the fact—no body of men could be more alive to this inconvenience than Her Majesty's Government—no one could be more conscious of it than the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government. The right hon. Gentleman had presented petitions to that House deprecating delay. These petitions were couched in the most earnest language—they came from most influential bodies of men—they all spoke in the same tone—and they all called upon that House to interpose in the progress of the measures of the Government no unnecessary delay. It was not, he could assure the House, that in England alone this evil was felt. He himself had received communications, and some of them from parties who were not favourable to the policy of the Government, but still who earnestly requested of that House to come to some decision upon the measures of the Government, because whilst they were undecided, and whilst the fate of the Corn Bill was unknown, commerce was arrested, trade was at a stand, and the financial operations of the country were embarrassed. It was even said, that unless a speedy decision was come to, the evils now suffered must be greatly aggravated, and the embarrassments now experienced greatly extended. When all saw this and all acknowledged this, it was not necessary for him to enlarge upon the evils of postponement. But then he should be told, that in making this Motion he was doing that which was unusual, opposing the first reading of a Bill that had come down from the Lords—that to do this was not in accordance with Parliamentary usage; but his answer to such an objection was, that there were occasions when they could not listen to these formal rules of Parliamentary usage. It was undoubtedly competent for any Member of that House to object to the first reading of any Bill; and this was a Bill, the enactments of which were of a strict and stringent nature, operating to the suspension of the Constitution; and if a Member were to be deprived of the opportunity of resisting a measure with such an object—if he were not on the very first opportunity to dissent
290
from it, then there never would be a time when a Member of Parliament could with propriety dissent from the first reading of any Bill. Why, he asked, were they now called upon to discuss this Bill? Why, if the Government were really in earnest in their proceeding with such a Bill, did they delay so long in presenting it to the Legislature? Why, if it were of paramount importance, have hesitated with it—why, if it were of urgent necessity, have dallied with it? Why were they so tardy, and why so pressing? He wished to be allowed to call the attention of the House to the mode and manner in which this Irish measure had been brought forward. It might be that some of his fellow countrymen really thought that transporting men for being out of their homes at night would arrest the arm of the assassin; but then he must say, that such of his countrymen who thought so, had just cause to complain of Her Majesty's Government. On the 22nd January Her Majesty, in Her Speech from the Throne, called the attention of the House to the state of Ireland and the unfortunate prevalence of acts of assassination there. Was it not, then, the first duty of the Government to take measures for the preservation and safety of life in Ireland? And, supposing that the Government was sincere in its intention, and that they believed this Bill could effect so desirable a purpose, ought they to have lost a single day without bringing it forward? Was the Bill produced the first week of the sitting of Parliament? No. Was it brought forward in the first fortnight? No. Was it proceeded with in the first three weeks? Not at all. Nearly a month had elapsed before they came forward with a Bill to provide for the safety of life in Ireland. Nearly a month had elapsed before any Irish Bill obtained a first reading in the House of Lords. And when it was introduced, was there any haste, any eagerness exhibited by Her Majesty's Ministers to go on with it? No, not at all. The Bill was not introduced until the 16th of February, and it did not pass the House of Lords until the 13th of March; and there they were now, in the House of Commons, on the 30th of March, and its first reading was only about to be moved? Was there, when they saw such a course pursued, anything uncharitable in surmising, either that the Government was not sincere in proposing this measure, or they did not hope for any beneficial effect from it? Why then was the House

291
called upon to interpose with such a measure as this; and why were they forced to make it the occasion of delay to another and a more important measure? The Irish Members could not consent to the first reading. Why, then, were they forced despite of themselves to enter into these debates? Why were they placed by the Government in this disagreeable dilemma? Why compelled to do that which must inevitably delay another measure, and one in which were concentrated the hopes and on which dwelt the wishes and rested the expectations of the people of England? He deeply regretted that the Irish Members were obliged to take this course; he could assure the English people that this interposition was not of the seeking of the Irish Members—that it was forced upon them, and he trusted that the course they now pursued would not be mistaken when they had given such evidence of their willingness to forward the Corn Bill. If that Corn Bill were now to be postponed for some weeks, the fault rested, not on them, but solely on the conduct of the Government. The Irish Members had supported the Corn Bill—they wished to promote its passing; but when another Bill was interposed, they were compelled to object to that Bill, and thus unwillingly to delay the Corn Bill, of which they had already recorded their approval, And now, he wished to address a few words to the protectionist party in that House, and to his noble Friend (Lord George Bentick) the leader of that party. He was aware that his noble Friend had laid great stress, in the few words he had addressed to that House upon this subject, as to the peculiar importance of the Corn Bill; and he know that there might be many Gentlemen of his noble Friend's party, who, not being anxious, like many Members on his (the Opposition) side of the House, for the speedy settlement of the Corn Bill, might be inclined on this occasion to give their support to the right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) in the hope of further postponing the Corn Bill. If he understood what his noble Friend had said the other night, he apprehended that his noble Friend was on this occasion inclined to support Her Majesty's Government, if they proved themselves really anxious for the present measure, by pressing it through the House. But what Government was now doing was not pressing the measure forward. All that the Government was doing was making a Motion pro formâ—
292
playing fast and loose—reading the Bill to-night, and then not bringing it up for some weeks, until the Corn Bill had passed through all its stages. Might he then presume, on this occasion, to intreat of his noble Friend to consider the position in which he was placed? The Government was now about to do that very thing which his noble Friend had deprecated. They were about to move, pro formâ, the first reading, to take no further steps for some weeks, but to press forward another Bill. This he would say was no light matter, in which the party of his noble Friend were called upon to act. It was well before they moved that they considered what they did, and what must be its consequences. It was clear that if they now voted with the right hon. Gentleman they did so merely for the sake of postponing the Corn Bill, and not for the sake of helping the Government to pass this measure. He hoped that his noble Friend would not do that which must bring him and his party in collision with the Irish nation—that he would not seek to make a political convenience of it, nor for a party purpose trifle with the feelings of the Irish people. It was possible that his noble Friend and his party at we very distant period might have the government of Ireland intrusted to them. Yes; it might be so; and therefore it was that he called upon his noble Friend to weigh the position in which he was placed. He had confidence in the noble Lord that he would not, for the sake of postponing one measure, give his vote in support of another, and that the sole reason for his vote would be that it was in accordance with the just claim which Government might have upon him for his support. Having said thus much it was not necessary for him to trespass longer upon the attention of the House. It would be better, he was convinced, for all parties, that the Irish Bill should not now be proceeded with. Its discussion, at this moment, could only give rise to angry and exasperating debates. Better, he said, for all parties, that these should not be provoked; and he might be allowed to say it would be better for the Government itself that it should be postponed until they could produce other measures more worthy of general support. Let the Government, he said, take advantage of the delay, and let them place on the Table of the House their other Irish measures. Let them, for they had abundance of time to do so, place before them that Bill, which they said

293
they had in preparation, a Landlord and Tenant Bill. Let them place, too, before the House a Franchise Bill. Let them place on the Table a Bill for the amendment of the Municipal Corporations Bill. Let them do that, and then seek for a support which they might hope from those who would not sanction this when severed from every measure of a conciliatory character. Let the Government, he said, prove that their attention was fixed upon the welfare of the Irish people—that they sought not alone to punish the evil-doer, but that he who acted well was worthy of consideration. Let them have not merely an enactment of a severe nature, but also enactments tending to the well-being of the people, and calculated to produce peace, happiness, and security throughout the Empire. He had endeavoured to avoid every irritating topic. He had thus addressed the Government and the House because he was actuated by the sincere conviction that the attempt now to go on with this Bill would be destructive to the best interests of the country; and he could not help thinking that if the Government were anxious to go on with the Corn Bill—and he was sure they were—they would avoid the debate which a persistance in their Motion must produce. He therefore would negative the Motion made by the right hon. Baronet, and say that the Orders of the Day should not be postponed.
MR. SMITH O'BRIEN, in seconding the Motion, said he was anxious to take the earliest opportunity of addressing the House, in the hope—and he feared it was a vain hope—that by appealing to the right hon. Gentleman on the Treasury bench, they might be induced not to persevere in their present course, with the idle expectation they could succeed in it. They were now about to enter on a contest which would continue for months—a contest, he said, which the Members for Ireland wished to avoid; but which, when once forced upon them, he could assure those who listened to him, that no inconsiderable portion of the Irish Members were determined to take advantage of every form that House permitted, and that, too, to defeat a Bill which they believed would have no other effect than to exasperate Ireland without suppressing a single crime. He appealed to the right hon. Gentleman opposite to remember that the population of Ireland were starving, and that they should rather encourage Members to return to
294
their homes for the purpose of alleviating the distress of the people, than to keep them, interposing as far as they could, by every means in their power, in that House, to defeat a Bill, such as that now before them; or if there were no use in making such an appeal to the Government, then let him resort to one of another kind. Let him remind the right hon. Gentleman that he had not in that House more than 120 Members to support him; and he wished to know whether, with such an inconsiderable segment of a party, and with a formidable majority in that House against him, he was to venture forcing upon them such a measure as this? Did the right hon. Gentleman calculate on the support of those who sat on the same side of the House with him, and yet were opposed to him? And if he did, what must be the nature of that support? When the hon. Member for Cavan (Mr. Young) was destined to go down to posterity as "the disavowed plenipotentiary," who was to be found willing again to undertake the mission of patching up a truce, and seeking a convention between the right hon. Gentleman and that party? He was not present when the terms of the treaty were exposed; but he understood the noble Lord the Member for Lynn, that if the Government introduced this measure before Easter, then the noble Lord would consider it wise, proper, and expedient; but if after Easter, then the complexion and character of the Bill were, in the noble Lord's judgment, utterly transformed, and it was declared to be utterly untenable and unconstitutional. Was that the kind of support on which the Government calculated for passing this measure? As to the Whigs, he did not know what part they meant to take on this question; but if they followed the advice of the Lord Chief Justice of England, he must hope that they would assist the Irish Members in defeating such a measure as this. And now he appealed to the right hon. Gentleman (Sir B. Peel), whether he would allow the Irish Members to be dragged into a contest which they were willing to avoid, and which yet must afford to them the most full opportunity of exposing every portion of the misgovernment of the right hon. Gentleman and his party? And then if the right hon. Gentleman succeeded, and it could only be at the end of long and protracted Session, he believed that the only result would be to afford to them who were denounced as agitators the strongest possible arguments. He did not

295
wish to use any irritating or angry topic; but, in supporting the Motion of his hon. Friend, he begged leave to protest against the example that was given by the Ministers in invading the privileges of that House, and in attempting to interfere with its regular proceedings. According to the Standing Orders of that House, the Monday's and Friday's Orders of the Day should take precedence of Motions; and yet the Ministers called on the House to set aside its Standing Orders to proceed with this measure. Such a course fully justified the Irish Members in moving repeated adjournments for the purpose of defeating the measure.
SIR J. GRAHAMsaid: I really had hoped, Sir, that the course I took in the commencement of this preliminary discussion, would have exculpated me from the last accusation made by the hon. Member for Limerick, that I have shown any disrespect to the orders of this House; for I stated fully and explicitly to the House, that it is only by their favour that I can be enabled to make my Motion. I dissembled nothing—I distinctly stated the difficulty—and I laid before the House my reason for making this preliminary Motion. I am aware that I shall experience great difficulty in bringing before the House the particular Motion which I am anxious to submit to its consideration with as little delay as possible, except by taking the course which I now ask the House to sanction. I by no means deny the competency of this House to refuse to give a first reading to any Bill sent down from the other House; it is competent for this House to refuse to read a first time any Bill sent down to it; but on referring to the Journals, and looking at each case, it will be found that there are very few examples in which such a course has been adopted. In the other House it is open to any Member, as a matter of pure right, to lay upon the Table of that House any Bill which such Member may think proper to introduce. No leave is required, and, as a matter of course, the Bill is read a first time; and although here our Orders are different, and it is necessary for a Member of this House to obtain leave before he can introduce a Bill, yet the ordinary course, and almost the invariable rule, when a Bill comes from the other House relating to a subject the matter of which is well known, is, to read the Bill a first time at once. With the single instance of the Coercion Bill of 1833, there is not, I believe, another
296
exception to that rule. It is not possible however, to make the first reading of a Bil coming from the Lords an Order of the Day, without making a Motion for that purpose. Circumstances, therefore, have driven me to the necessity of submitting this preliminary Motion; and I assure hon. Gentlemen, after the delay which has already taken place, owing to the long discussions on the Resolutions relating to Corn, and on the second reading of the Corn Bill, the time has arrived when, in the opinion of Her Majesty's Government, with reference to the peace of the country, and with reference to the security of life and property in Ireland, it has become indispensably necessary that the opinion of this House should be taken upon the principle of the measure for the better security of life, sent down from the other House of Parliament by large majorities. Now, the hon. Baronet the Member for Drogheda has stated that there has been culpable neglect in introducing this Bill into Parliament, after the announcement made by Her Majesty in the Speech from the Throne at the commencement of the Session. Sir, it would be in vain to dissemble with the House—at all events I will not attempt to dissemble—the extreme difficulty in which Her Majesty's Government are placed at this particular moment. I did think it a matter of primary and paramount importance, considering the condition of Ireland, and taking also into consideration the general reasons for an alteration of the Corn Laws, that with the least possible delay, and at the commencement of the Session, the policy of the Government should be announced as to the existing law for the importation of corn. The effect of that announcement, undoubtedly, was to derange the Irish Government, and to prevent us from having the full assistance of those who had the conduct and charge of affairs in that country. For reasons which it is unnecessary now to enumerate, we lost the assistance of my right hon. Friend the Irish Secretary, under whose immediate advice in Ireland this Bill had been prepared; and his successor, the present Secretary for Ireland, a noble Friend of mine, is not now a Member of this House. I do not lay any great stress on these events; but still our decision with respect to the Corn Laws did lead to some delay in introducing the Bill, which I am now anxious to have read a first time, into the other House of Parliament. I think Parliament met at the end of January, and

297
this Bill was introduced into the other House early in February. The question then is asked, whether the Government is sincere in wishing to pass this Bill? I have stated that the primary measure which, in our opinion, ought to be passed, is the Corn Law. I have also stated our opinion that it is absolutely necessary that the further stages of that Bill should be pressed with the least possible delay; but though it is of primary importance that the Corn Bill should, with the least possible delay, obtain the sanction of this House, still, on the other hand, we do attach immense importance to the expression of the opinion of this House on the Bill to protect life in Ireland which has come down from the other House. We conceive that the moral effect of the adoption of the principle of this Bill, by giving to it a first reading, will be of inestimable value in aid of its object—to give greater security for life in Ireland; and, on the other hand, we are satisfied that if, upon this Bill, which has received the sanction of the other House, which we know from the Votes has been sent down to us by large majorities, this House, by any combination of parties, should by a large majority decide not even to entertain it, the moral effect of such a course of proceeding will be most mischievous to Ireland. Any step more fatal to the peace, more injurious to the safety, and more fatal to the maintenance of order and the predominance of the law, cannot well be taken. I am certainly aware of the fact, which the hon. Gentleman the Member for the county of Limerick has advanced, that in the present state of parties in this House, the declared adherents of the Government are a small minority; but while we are the servants of Her Majesty, charged with the conduct of public affairs, the accumulation of difficulties to which he has adverted, and the situation in which we are placed, prescribe to us only one course, which we ought to pursue—steadily and perseveringly, and to the best of our judgment to press on the adoption of Parliament the measures which we believe to be conducive to the public safety and to the public good. If it should be the opinion of the House that the course we are taking is inconsistent with that duty and inconsistent with public safety, there is an equally plain course which the majority can take to give expression to its opinion. But whilst we remain Her Majesty's servants, I again repeat that, to the best of our judgment, we
298
will take that course which we believe the public safety and the public necessity demand. We are still of opinion, that the proceeding with the Corn Law ought not to be retarded by pressing the ulterior stages of this Bill; but, on the other hand, without the total and entire abandonment of this measure, it will not be possible longer to delay or postpone reading for the first time a Bill having the sanction of a large majority of the other House. If we fail to press the present Motion, our sincerity may be questioned; but I am satisfied, as much as I can be of any proposition, that it will not conduce to the real interests of Ireland to postpone the first reading of this Bill, and the decision of the question whether this House will entertain it. The hon. Gentleman the Member for the county of Limerick (Mr. W. S. O'Brien) has adopted a tone quite different from that of the hon. Baronet who moved the Amendment. The hon. Baronet the Member for Drogheda has urged only those considerations of policy on which it is my painful duty to differ from him; but the hon. Member for Limerick has threatened us with another course of operations; he has declared that he will use all the forms which the House will permit for the purpose of obstructing the progress of the Bill, even if the majority should determine to allow it to proceed. Again, I say to the hon. Member for Limerick, that, acting solely for the public good, we should be utterly unworthy of the public confidence if we yielded to his threat. If it be the pleasure of any Members of this House, whether they be individuals or a small body opposed to the progress of this measure, to use the forms of this House to obstruct the course we wish to pursue, I will not give my assent to any such proceeding; the responsibility will rest with those who have recourse to it; but the responsibility of the Ministry is to do our duty in consistency with the forms of this House, and, to the best of our power, to press upon the attention of the House this measure, with such facts and reasonings as I shall be able, with the pleasure of the House, to adduce. I crave to be permitted to state what, to the best of my judgment, is the necessity for this Bill; if that be allowed me, I think that I can lay evidence before you, which, appealing to your impartial judgment, and apart from party consideration, will influence your decision; and I repeat, that indefinitely to postpone hearing the case on

299
the part of the Government, and coming to a judgment upon it, will, in the present circumstances of Ireland, be attended with the most prejudicial effects. I have dissembled nothing—I have told the House what is the real state of the case. I am painfully aware of the position in which the Government is placed. We are equally sincere in our former determination and in our efforts to bring the Corn Law to an early and a satisfactory termination; but, on the other hand, we are anxious—I fear to express how earnestly anxious we are—for the adoption of a measure which the present condition of Ireland renders indispensably necessary. And now, having made this statement to the House, I leave it to the majority of the House to determine the course they will adopt; but my individual judgment will remain unshaken—that to refuse to hear the case of the Government, and to refuse to read this Bill a first time, will be most pernicious and injurious to the interests of the country.
MR. SHAWsaid: I shall support the Motion of the right hon. Baronet to proceed with the first reading of the Bill. In the present lamentable insecurity of life, and person, and property in Ireland, I cannot refuse to an existing Government leave to proceed with a Bill which they, upon their responsibility, propose as calculated to mitigate that great evil. I confess that I am not very sanguine of the success of the measure. Nothing but an imperative necessity can justify the extra-constitutional powers the Bill confers; and if that imperative necessity exists, which I believe it does, then I agree with the hon. Baronet who has moved the Amendment (Sir William Somerville), that the Government should not have so long delayed the measure; and given reason to the public to doubt whether they were in earnest in considering it of paramount importance. In the House of Lords the Bill was delayed from the 22nd of January to the 13th of March; whereas the Whig Coercion Bill, in 1833, was passed between the 29th of January and the 22nd of February. Further, the Government should not have suffered the Bill to be mutilated as it has been in its passage through the House of Lords: in exceeding the limits of the law, they should have well considered the exigency—not asked for more than they required, and not have taken less. I also agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Limerick (Mr. S. O'Brien), that in the present weak condition of the Government, they
300
will want that moral weight which is necessary for the efficacy of such a measure. The Irish Members at the opposite side of the House will of course oppose them; and I observe that in their last great division, on Friday night, the Government had of their own supporters exactly seven Irish Members — three of the seven being in office. I, for my own part, believe that if the existing law had been administered with a steady and temperate firmness in Ireland, things would not have come to the unhappy pass they have. But I am of opinion, that from the commencement of the monster meetings and monster agitation to the present time, the law has not been so administered. On the contrary, the policy of the Government in Ireland has been for some years what is only now beginning to be seen on the English side of the water—a spirit of compromise—of spurious liberality—of want of reliance on the permanent principles of truth and justice — a passing over of the best and most competent men of their own party from unworthy fears—a tampering with an inferior class of the opposite party (for the higher would not listen to their overtures) from equally unworthy hopes—in short, a trading on the generosity of their friends and the meanness of their opponents, until the Government was left without the confidence or respect of any party in the country. I am not so unjust as to blame the so-called Irish Government for this state of things; it is allowed no independence of action. I lay the blame where it is justly due, at the door of that department in England, whose mere puppets the Irish Government was required to be. No doubt the Secretary of State for that department (Sir James Graham) will say that those remarks are dictated by disappointment on my part that I am not myself Secretary for Ireland. Now, upon that point, before I sit down, I will crave the kind attention of the House for a few minutes to listen to my answer to the unwarrantable attack that was made upon me on Friday night by the right hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham), when I had previously spoken in the debate, and therefore could not reply to it.
The SPEAKER: The right hon. Gentleman can only allude to a former debate, if permitted by the indulgence of the House.
MR. SHAWcontinued: Sir, I am perfectly aware of that, and I throw myself entirely, but under the circumstances,

301
confidently, upon that indulgence. [Loud cheers, and cries of "Go on."] Well, then, I will commence by saying that, between the right hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) and me, there must be no special pleading—no quibbling about words; and if his attack meant anything, it meant this—that my present opposition to the Government was influenced by disappointment that I had not been able to job my office of Recorder of Dublin for the purpose of becoming Chief Secretary of Ireland. First, then, as regards even the colour of truth of that portion of the charge which relates to the arrangement of my present office, I will state what the facts were. When the Whig party introduced the Irish Corporation Bill, they had in it a clause providing that the office should remain in all respects as it then was until Parliament should otherwise arrange it. It had become after the passing of the Bill a most anomalous office—formerly in the gift of the corporation of Dublin, it then fell to the patronage of the Crown, but with none of the attributes of a judicial office presented to by the Crown, its income being made up partly by annual votes of Parliament—partly from the funds of the corporation, with which it was no longer connected—and partly by fees. When the Government was fixed in office in 1842, among many other Irish subjects that I was then in almost daily communication about with the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government (Sir R. Peel), I brought the state of that office under his consideration. The right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) asked me to put my plan on paper; I consulted the Irish law officers as to the most advantageous arrangement for the public, and then proposed a plan for the consolidation of several local, judicial, and other offices in Dublin, which would have effected a saving of between three and four thousand a year to the public; but also—and I am anxious to give the right hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) the full benefit of the admission—it would, with increased duties, have raised the salary of the Recorder, charged it on the Consolidated Fund, and provided a retiring allowance, under proper regulations—as was the case with every other judicial office in Ireland, including the assistant barristerships of counties. In doing this I was no humble suppliant for favour, and very sensible of the difference between my own position, as a private individual, and that of the Prime Minister; still upon that, as upon every
302
other occasion of our confidential communication, I felt myself, in the sense to which I am now referring, upon independent and equal terms. Well, the result was—having conferred with the right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), with the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department (Sir J. Graham), confidentially as I thought—though I don't care if he publishes on every market cross in England everything I ever said to him—with Sir Thomas Fremantle and others, they said that, considering the patronage of the office was in the Government—that I was in the House of Commons—that Dr. Lushington and the Masters in Chancery had been recently excluded as judicial officers; they thought it would be inexpedient to raise a discussion on the subject. I concurred in that opinion—I never remonstrated—I never complained—I never felt the slightest annoyance; and from that moment—four years ago—to the present, it never cost me a thought. But now I come to the real gravamen of the charge; and that is, that my object and application was to obtain the Chief Secretaryship of Ireland, or some other office, for I will give the right hon. Baronet the amplest latitude. Now, if that had been true, I think the House will be of opinion—that it would have been inconsistent with all official etiquette, with the ordinary dealings between gentlemen; and above all, unworthy of a Minister of the Crown to divulge what in its nature must be an essentially confidential communication,—for the sake of producing a momentary impression against a political opponent in this House. Again, supposing it to be true, a high and generous mind, above such sordid influences over its own public conduct, would scarcely impute them to another. But what will the House think of the Minister and the man who could make such a charge—when, instead of its being true—I declare on my word of honour there is not from beginning to end one word of truth in it. I now make my appeal direct to the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government (Sir Robert Peel): he will excuse me for mentioning—he will feel that I am forced to it—all that ever passed between him and me on the subject of office. It was very short, and I think I can accurately state it. On the return of the right hon. Baronet from abroad, in the end of 1834, and on his assuming the reins of Government, I was in constant communication with him; and, at our first

303
interview after he arrived in this country, he asked me if there was any office I would accept. I at once, and unhesitatingly, said not, and assigned my reasons: that I would not take any judicial or other office which would exclude me from Parliament; that I preferred my present office and the representation of the University of Dublin; and that I could not take any political office, for I could not afford to give up the permanent office I held. From that time I was for many years in close and intimate communication with the right hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel.) I co-operated with him under some trying circumstances and painful difficulties of which he is not unaware; and now, with confidence, I ask the right hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) whether he believes I was ever actuated by a selfish or personal motive?—[Sir ROBERT PEEL, Hear.] But, be that as it may, I solemnly aver that from that conversation, in 1834, to the present day, I never spoke to the right hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) on the subject of office. I never, directly or indirectly, applied to any human being for office. I never suggested, or hinted at, or contemplated the office of Irish Secretary, or any other save the subordinate office which I now hold, and which is
"— enough for me,
My bread and independency."
And does the right hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) think that it did not degrade him—or, at all events, degrade the high office he holds—not in the heat of the moment—not under the irritation of a speech recently made; but after three days—premeditatedly — commencing an adjourned debate, at the calmest hour of the evening, to bring an accusation that had not in it the shadow of truth; a low vulgarism—in which the right hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) had not even the merit of originality, but had borrowed from a local party newspaper—and to sustain which, I utterly and indignantly defy him to produce the slightest tittle, the minutest atom of proof. The right hon. Baronet then complained that I, sitting behind the Government, knew that they were falling, and kicked them because they were falling. Now, I cannot well avoid sitting behind the Government—I am, after all, as near the gangway as I can go; and if the right hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) means that all Members at this side of the House who have retained their sentiments are either to change their seats or mince their words to gratify the taste of the right hon.
304
Baronet—the benches behind the Government—well thinned already—would soon be deserted indeed. That the Government is a falling Government, both in power and character, I lament to be obliged to believe; and furthermore, I am persuaded that the right hon. Baronet is the evil genius who is hurrying them to their catastrophe. The party to which the right hon. Gentleman formerly belonged, three years ago made a common prediction, which the late and the present adherents of this Government will soon unite to fulfil—that no Cabinet can long exist in England of which the right hon. Baronet is a Member. As to the kicking from behind—if that is the proper description which the right hon. Baronet gives the operation—I may remind the right hon. Baronet that last year, when he was not a Member of a falling Government, I performed the same operation as vigorously as I was able upon the right hon. Baronet; but I do not kick the Government because they are falling. Let the right hon. Baronet recollect that the taunt comes ill from him, for it is not I that have changed my opinions; it is not I that have deserted my principles. I, perhaps, feel too strongly, and I speak as I feel. The habit may sometimes be inconvenient; but I am not willing to unlearn it by becoming the disciple of the right hon. Baronet. The right hon. Baronet says he prefers my open hostility to my smouldering resentment. He may depend upon it that when I feel hostility I will always show it as openly and as fearlessly as I did on the occasion to which he referred. Resentment I never felt towards the Government, and, most of all, not towards the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government; far from it. I entertain for him (Sir R. Peel) personally unaffected respect; and, my sincerest sorrow is that he has fallen into the hands of the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department. Finally, I can, with truth, assure that right hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) that I do not regard him with either hostility or resentment. The feeling I have for him is not so dignified; but out of deference to the House I will forbear to express it. I cannot sufficiently thank the House for the indulgent attention with which they have heard me on a personal matter, with which I am very sorry that I have been obliged to trouble them; and I still more gratefully acknowledge the general murmur of disapprobation with which the other night they received the accusa-

305
tion of the right hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) against me, when, according to the rules of the House, I could not be heard in my own defence.
SIR J. GRAHAM: I can assure the House that I shall strictly confine myself to explanation. The right hon. and learned Recorder of Dublin has complained that I took advantage of the interval of two or three days for preparing an elaborate attack against him; but, after the speech he has made, I will leave the House and country to judge of the fine judicial tone and temper he has displayed upon this occasion. But I said that I would confine myself to explanation, and there are two points to which I shall refer. The right hon. Gentleman said that I had preferred an accusation against him. [Mr. SHAW: An insinuation.] Then we have already parted with that word "accusation," and it is now reduced to insinuation; and I will observe that, if it be the pleasure of the House to refer, not only to former debates, but to listen to the explanation of the allusions in those debates, it will be my duty to offer such explanation. There are two allusions in the speech to which the right hon. and learned Gentleman refers. The first is, the possible political ambition of passing from the judicial to official station that swayed the mind and judgment of the right hon. and learned Gentleman. I admit that allusion; but that allusion was prospective; and it was an allusion to what I thought might possibly, and even probably, have been the object of the right hon. and learned Gentleman. It was an allusion made prospectively with reference to the formation of what I think I called a protection Government. The other allusion was to a matter of fact; and the right hon. and learned Gentleman, I think, said something about confidential communication, and a breach of confidence. Now, the House will remember—and the right hon. and learned Gentlemen himself has alluded to it—that in the course of last Session he stated distinctly that he never had been what I ventured to call him, my right hon. Friend; and he disclaimed the propriety of my using that expression—he said he never had been my Friend; that he had only a political and Parliamentary acquaintance with me; and he drew a distinction, which he has drawn again to-night, between me and my right hon. Friend at the head of the Government. He said, that with my right hon. Friend he was on terms of friendship, but that with me he had none;
306
and on a former occasion, as on to-night, he singled me out as the object of his bitterest attack. Now, then, with reference to confidential communication. There is no confidence, I conceive, under such circumstances, and after such a disclaimer. If there had been any confidential intercourse or communication, I should not be the man to abuse it; but, in the absence of such confidence, I do think I am perfectly justified in referring to a communication—an official communication—between the right hon. and learned Gentleman and me within, I think, three months after my acceptance of office. About the commencement of February, 1842, the commencement of the first Session after I accepted office, the right hon. and learned Gentleman did propose a measure to my consideration, the outline of which was that the office of the Recorder of the city of Dublin should receive a salary from the Consolidated Fund of 3000 l. a year; and that provision should be made for a retiring allowance to the present occupant of that office. I deliberated upon that officially, and I returned an answer that I could not be a party to any such proposition; and since there is no confidence between the right hon. and learned Gentleman and myself, if he will refer to his correspondence of February, 1842, he will find the letter, which he has my full consent to read to the House, in which I stated the reasons, the public official reasons, why I could not be a party to any such measure.
MR. O'CONNELLsaid, the right hon. Baronet had talked of the threats of his hon. Friend the Member for the county of Limerick, of availing himself of the forms of the House to give every opposition in his power to this Bill; but what did the right hon. Baronet do himself? Did he not call upon the House to trample upon one of the Sessional Orders, and to deprive the Irish people of the protection of that Order? That Order was made for the protection of the public, that no person should be taken by surprise; and surely there ought to be notice given of any Motion for the purpose of suspending that Order. Did the right hon. Baronet believe that the Irish people would not be much more affected at finding a Sessional Order that was made for their protection trampled under foot—would not the moral effect of such a course, in order to get a Coercion Bill for Ireland, be much greater than could be produced by a majority of that House? They were accustomed to have

307
majorities of that House deciding against them; but it was now proposed that, to get a Coercion Bill against them, the Orders of that House were to be trampled under foot. He believed that the Motion before the House was to postpone the Orders of the Day until after the first reading of this Bill; but there were so many Motions on the books of that House upon the subject—he himself had an important Motion of an Amendment—that he could assure the right hon. Baronet that he would gain nothing by his perseverance. He, therefore, hoped that the right hon. Baronet would not persevere in his Motion, seeing that no beneficial effect be given to it; seeing that he could not advance himself one hour; seeing that there was no part of the Government of Ireland, not only in his—the right hon. Baronet's—time, but in past Governments, but must necessarily be involved in the debate, that there was not a measure of any Government inimical to the Irish people, that would not be a legitimate topic of discussion in this case; and that it was, therefore, utterly impossible that any advantage could be gained by proposing this irregular Motion against the ordinary rules of proceeding.
MR. C. POWELLconsidered he was not asking anything unreasonable in calling upon the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government to listen to the real wishes of the people of England, that the Corn Bill take precedence of every other measure. He should like to ask the noble Lord the Member for King's Lynn (Lord G. Bentinck) to favour the House with a minute of the negotiation which had lately taken place between him and the Government upon the present measure.
LORD G. BENTINCK: My hon. Friend has appealed to me as the leader of a party. I beg to say that whilst I am proud to serve in the ranks of the protectionists, I think it right to state I have never set myself up for their leader; but since they do sometimes request me to express the feelings of the greater part of them, I am able to state that, if the day should come, which some hon. Gentlemen seem to anticipate, when we shall be responsible for the government of Ireland, the principles of protection will not be extended to the broad-day murderer and the midnight assassin. Protection will be given to the loyal and the well conducted—to the honest and the poor man in the pursuit of his lawful functions. I condemn, as strongly as any man can condemn, the dilatory proceedings of
308
the present Government, when they advise Her Majesty to come down, and in Her Speech to Parliament to say that She sees with great regret the system of assassination prevailing in Ireland, and when Her Majesty calls upon the Parliament forthwith to consider measures for the punishment of those who commit these desperate crimes, I condemn the Ministers who have delayed from the 22nd of January to the 30th of March the proposal to read the measure for the first time. The present measure is warmly supported in the other House by all the principal leaders. It is supported by the Marquess of Lansdowne, by the Marquess of Clanricarde, by my Lord Cottenham, and by Lord Campbell. Therefore there is no excuse for Her Majesty's Ministers delaying to bring it before Parliament. When I look at the statements which have been made by a Minister in the other House of Parliament, and see that in ten counties alone the offences against persons, the offences against property, and the offences against the public peace, amount to four thousand seven hundred and eighty, I must say that I concur in opinion with the Marquess of Clanricarde, that no Bill has ever been introduced into this House of Parliament which can compare with the measure now before the House; and there is necessity for pressing it forward. I agree with the hon. Member for Lancashire in thinking that this measure for the protection of life in Ireland is the precursor of further measures favourable to the Irish. But it is of no use to propose measures for the improvement of the Irish people so long as no man can pursue the occupations of industry or carry out any improvements, without an immediate prospect of being arrested in those improvements by the hand of the broad-day murderer and the midnight assassin. For these reasons it is that I call on those with whom I act to give their hearty and honest support to Her Majesty's Administration, so long as they show an earnest desire to put down murder and protect property in Ireland. The right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government has told us that this is a Bill to put down murder and assassination; and I say that as long as the Bill is delayed, the blood of every murdered man is upon the head of Her Majesty's Ministers—the blood of every man who shall be murdered, pending the passing of these measures, will be upon the head of Her Majesty's Administration, and upon the head of this House, if they and we neglect

309
to pass this measure. What is the state of things in Ireland? It is not only that those who themselves have given offence are liable to be murdered, but we see instances every day of even women with children in their arms being shot from behind ditches. ["Name."] I will name. What think you of the case of Fanny MacFennel, the wife of a wood-ranger, who was shot for no other offence than this, that her husband was supposed to be active in arresting trespassers upon the estate of his master. [An Hon. MEMBER: Where?] In the county of Tyrone, and for no other offence than that of arresting trespassers in the woods of his master. This unfortunate woman, far advanced in pregnancy, and carrying an infant in her arms, was shot from behind a hedge by a murderous assassin. She herself lingered from her wounds, and after a miscarriage and the birth of a still-born child, in two or three days she died, while the infant in her arms was severely wounded in its head, and, for anything I know, may have since died. If the passing of the measure now before the House be delayed at this present time, it cannot come into operation for at least three years. What I have mentioned has not been a solitary instance. How many days ago was it since Sir David Roche was shot at for no other crime than this, that at the bidding of one tenant he refused to turn out the widow of that man's brother whilst the body of her late husband was still lying in the house. But these are not all. The state of Ireland appears to be this—that a man can scarcely go to church—no old lady of eighty can go to church, without the risk of being shot at by assassins. What do you think of the case of Mrs. Bennet, an old lady of eighty, who was driving in her car, when she was stopped by two ruffians, one armed with a whattle, and the other with a pistol. Her offence was, that she had refused to turn off two faithful servants, one of whom had been shot at and desperately wounded in the arm whilst at his supper. Neither are these all. Have we not seen the statement made by Lord Farnham in the other House of Parliament. A friend of his was murdered in the broad day, and, though there were hundreds of people by, nobody offered either to prevent the murder or arrest the murderers. It is perfectly well known that the murderer is still in the country, and the haunts he visits are also well known, but nobody dare arrest him. What have we heard an account of on the
310
7th of this very month? Mr. Ryan tells us that himself and his wife and ten children, with five servants, were engaged in evening prayer, when a blunderbuss, loaded with nine bullets, was fired into the room, clearly showing what was designed by the assassin's fixing that period for the execution of his plans, that the slaughter might be the more universal. Because these things occur, we are charged with being indifferent to the interests of the Irish people, and therefore I shall certainly support the Government in forwarding this measure, by which a system of murder and assassination will be effectually put down. I will speak for those around me, that we will not consent to have the name of liberty prostituted to broad-day murders, and midnight assassinations.
SIR GEORGE GREYhad risen to express his hope, that, notwithstanding the speech of the noble Lord, the House would not be led into a premature discussion as to the state of things in Ireland, and which had induced the Government to introduce this measure into the House. The time would come when the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department might state grounds which would justify the introduction of this Bill; the time might come when the House would be called upon to determine whether this Bill, framed to meet the extensive system of crime in Ireland, should pass into a law; but his hon. Friend the Member for Drogheda pressed that they should not put these questions to a decision now, but that they should proceed with a measure of the greatest interest and importance, which had occupied the attention of the House for some time. By the mode taken by the right hon. Gentleman the question was put before them, as to which of these two important Bills they would take that evening. The question was, which of these important measures—the Corn Importation Bill, or the Preservation of Life (Ireland) Bill—should have precedence. Under all the circumstances in which these Bills were before the House, he could not help expressing his decided opinion that the Bill for the importation of corn should have preference over the Irish Bill. He could assure the House he had no wish to offer any unfair impediment to the course which the Government proposed to adopt; but he would put it to them whether it was not for the convenience of the public business that the course which he recommended should be adopted. On the

311
Corn Importation Bill the debates were carried on far beyond the ordinary duration of debates, and it was argued at great length on both sides of the House. The Bill had arrived within a short period of the last stage, and he put it to the House whether they should not put an end to the anxiety of almost the whole community, including a great portion of the agricultural interest, that some final decision should be come to on this question. These proceedings had continued for several weeks; and all who had any lengthened Parliamentary experience in debates in that House must be convinced, that, if the further progress of the Corn Importation Act was postponed until after Easter, they would have much longer and protracted debates in its future stages than if the Bill was pressed de die in diem. As he understood, the Government had intended that this Bill should have gone up to the House of Lords before Easter, when it would have been printed, and the second reading could have taken place at an early day after the holidays; but, if it was put off until after Easter, he would defy any man to show any reasonable expectation of its getting to a second reading in the other House before June, July, or August. He regretted the course taken by the Government; but they must look to a defence of it in the statement which the right hon. Baronet would make to the House in justification of this Bill for the protection of life in Ireland. If the Bill was of so pressing a nature, not a day should be allowed to elapse before passing it into a law; and there might be a case which might make it incumbent, for the suppression of crime, that they should press forward this Bill. The right hon. Gentleman, however, only proceeded to take the first reading of this Bill; he must then postpone the Corn Bill, and deal with this measure. Supposing that this Bill was proceeded with, they must postpone all the further stages of the Corn Bill; and if the Corn Bill was postponed, they might depend upon it that this measure could not be proceeded with until a later period than otherwise would be the case. The right hon. Baronet said that it was essential to have the opinion of the House expressed on the principle of this measure. How long had he been of this opinion? The right hon. Baronet on a former occasion said that it was only respectful to the House of Lords that this Bill, sent down from it, should be read a first time, and he deprecated in that stage of it
312
any expression of opinion on the part of the House. The right hon. Baronet had expressed an earnest hope to several of his (Sir G. Grey's) Irish Friends around him that they would allow the first reading of this Bill sub silentio. The right hon. Baronet recommended the postponement of the debate until the second reading, which he pledged himself should not take place until the Corn Importation Bill had passed through that House. Looking to the necessity of putting an end to the state of uncertainty which existed, and to the paralysed state of commerce which this delay had occasioned, he trusted that they would proceed with the Corn Bill, and postpone the Protection of Life in Ireland Bill. If he were compelled to say aye or no to this Motion, he should not hesitate to give his cordial support to the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for Drogheda.
MR. HENRY GRATTANwould support the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for Drogheda, although he was determined to do all in his power to put down the spirit of outrage and insubordination which existed in Ireland. He did not merely say this as a Member of Parliament, but as a resident Irish gentleman, and as a protector of his own tenantry and of the Irish people. He did not think that any asperity which was manifested towards Her Majesty's Ministers, in consequence of the delay in this measure, was justifiable, as is was clear that they could not make up their minds on a Bill which, since 1746, had singularly failed when attempted to be put in force. This Bill should be delayed; for there were now laws in existence, and officers to put them in force, which had not been resorted to. These, he was satisfied, were amply sufficient, without resorting to this infamous Bill. It was the duty of the sheriff, in case of disturbance, to call out the posse comitatus; and the gentry, instead of making speeches and dressing up addresses in grand-jury rooms, should place themselves at the head of their servants, and patrol the country day and night. The gentry, however, abandoned their duty, and made themselves unpopular with their tenantry. No man was more anxious than himself to put down this spirit of outrage; but he never would consent to stigmatize a whole country, because five or six persons in a district were infected with a mania.
MR. S. HERBERTsaid, it was impossible to deny that the Government was placed in a position of great difficulty in

313
respect of the question as to which subject should have the precedence on the present occasion. He regretted, however, to hear the noble Lord the Member for Lynn bring forward charges of so grave a nature against Her Majesty's Government—charges, he would add, which, unless they could be substantiated in every particular, no man in that House, or out of it, should bring against any man or body of men in power or out of power. The noble Lord said, that in consequence of the delay which had taken place, the Government were responsible for the loss of life which had occurred in Ireland; and he had also stated, that in consequence of the Government not appearing to be in earnest in respect to the measure, he, and those with whom he acted, could not feel themselves in the discharge of their duty in supporting the Government in carrying it into effect. A more unfair construction was never put upon the acts of any Government than that which had been put upon the acts of the Government to which he (Mr. Sidney Herbert) belonged, by the noble Lord on this occasion. If the House would only consider all the circumstances of the case — all the circumstances under which the measure was brought forward, unless the Government could make days of hours, and weeks of days—they would come to the conclusion, that no other course was open to them in the matter. Having to meet all the difficulties of the many measures which were before them since last October, it was not within the compass of possibility that they could be ready with them all by the opening of Parliament; and to introduce them in a crude, undigested state, would be unworthy of their position—they had no alternative open to them but the course which they had adopted. It was impossible, he freely admitted, to overrate the importance of the Corn Bill to the country, or to exaggerate the necessity of its speedy passage through that House. In this he agreed to the full with the right hon. Baronet who had spoke last. But it was impossible also, he maintained, if that which had been stated in respect to the state of society in Ireland was correct, not to admit that the subject was one which could not bear any longer delay; and if the House would only have the patience to hear what his right hon. Friend had to say in relation to it, and suffer the facts to be laid before them, he had no doubt they would come to the same conclusion. The noble Lord had made serious statements
314
respecting the state of crime and outrage in Ireland; and those hon. Gentlemen who acted with the noble Lord appeared to coincide in them; but if these statements were credible, and if they were believed by the House, could there be any question that the whole case which his right hon. Friend was prepared to lay before them was not entitled to be fully discussed upon that occasion? This, however, he would say—looking at the debates which had taken place upon the subject elsewhere, looking at the accounts which were published in the newspapers, and looking at the private, information which was received—anything so horrible as the state of demoralisation and crime in which many parts of Ireland were plunged—anything so perfect as the suspension of the law which existed in those parts of that country—anything, in short, so complete as the abrogation of liberty that obtained there, was, perhaps, never known; and he thought that no man and no Minister could, under these circumstances, decline to admit that even those most important measures then under the consideration of the House, ought to be postponed until a decision had been taken at least upon the principle of a measure which had for its object the suppression of those horrors, and which, by anticipation, might have the effect of stopping or suspending the frightful progress of crime in that country. In asking to read this Bill to-night, they only intended to postpone the Corn Bill for one night; and they would not even have asked for this postponement, but that it was of the most-essential importance that the opinion of the House should be taken as to the principle of this measure. He hoped the House would not pledge itself to delay this measure by voting for the Amendment, as it would give rise to a feeling of expectation in Ireland that this Bill would ultimately be thrown out. But although other measures were necessary, he hoped that the House would not delay this one, notwithstanding they had been told that it would not have any effect for years. He hoped, therefore, that the House would not affirm the Motion of the hon. Member for Drogheda. It was not true that the Government wished to throw over the Standing Order for this discussion. The course that was proposed to be taken was the most obvious and best that could be avoided. His right hon. Friend did not propose to take the House by surprise, for he had given due notice of his intention of proceeding with

315
this Bill this evening. He did not propose to take it out of the regular order, but he moved that the Orders of the Day be read, for the purpose of their being postponed; and thus they were disposed of just as much as if they had been discussed. The course also which the hon. Member proposed to take was very unusual, as it was not customary in courtesy to postpone to a distant day the first reading of a Bill which had come down from the House of Lords. He entreated the House not to sanction this course, which, if adopted, might be fatal to the tranquillity as well as to the security of life and property in Ireland. He hoped that they would not think that he was undervaluing the importance of the measure for the admission of corn; but all that he asked was, that it might pass pari passu with the measure for the protection of life in Ireland, which the people in that country were justified in expecting from them.
LORD JOHN RUSSELLsaid, that with respect to the Motion of the right hon. Baronet as to the postponing of the Orders of the Day, so as to enable him to propose the first reading of the Protection of Life (Ireland) Bill, he was satisfied to rest on what had been said by his right hon. Friend the Member for Devonport; but one or two circumstances had taken place in the course of the debate, which he felt compelled to take notice of before going to a division. He would not interfere one way or the other in the charge of his noble Friend the Member for Lynn, or the defence of the right hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, as to the delay which was said to have occurred in bringing forward this measure, and to not having pressed it forward when introduced. He trusted that the noble Lord who disclaimed the name of leader of his party, but who still admitted that he spoke the sentiments of the majority of those with whom he acted, would not be so rash and hasty in bringing charges against any person or party on insufficient evidence, as he thought the noble Lord had been that evening. With regard to the question before the House, both the right hon. Secretary and the right hon. Gentleman placed it on entirely different grounds from those on which it was placed the other evening by the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, when they said that it was most desirable that the principle of the Bill should be sanctioned by reading it the first time, as the moral effect which such a proceeding would produce in Ire-
316
land would be great, while it would be considered that a vote carried in favour of the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for Drogheda would be regarded as against the Bill. He could not so consider the question before the House. He considered, as had been justly stated by his right hon. Friend the Member for Devonport, whether this was the most convenient time to proceed with this measure. He was ready to avow that he thought that the more convenient course for the House to pursue, for the sake of the public, was to proceed with the Bill which had been so long before the House, and postpone to a future time the Bill which was not immediately before them. His right hon. Friend was justified in saying that the case would have been totally altered if the Government had said that they wished to pass immediately this Protection of Life Bill through all its stages; but on the contrary, they now said that they would resume the consideration of the Corn Importation Bill on Friday, and that the second reading of this Bill should not take place until the Corn Bill and the Poor Removal Bill should have passed. What would the moral effect be of taking the first reading of this Bill under such circumstances? He would ask whether they considered that those disposed to commit murder would be deterred from doing so, because they knew that this Bill had been read a first time? On the other hand, if they proceeded with it, they would have all the excitement arising from the discussion, without giving any power to the Executive Government by this course. They would throw, therefore, all kinds of exciting topics before the public, to be used with respect to this Bill, which would be termed an infringement of liberty, and would have a fearful effect on the public mind in Ireland. He thought that ample reasons had been given for postponing this Bill, and for proceeding with the Bill with regard to an importation of corn, the progress of which was regarded with so much interest by the public. In voting for the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for Drogheda, it was not to be supposed that if the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department made out a case that he should not support the Bill. It would be for the right hon. Baronet to show, that the state of outrages in Ireland, and of the crimes committed there, called for strong measures, and also that this Bill would have the tendency to prevent them for the fu-

317
ture. This would be the case for the right hon. Baronet to make out; and if he made out such a case, he should not object to the first reading. For the reasons, however, stated by his hon. Friend the Member for Drogheda, he felt convinced that more useful effects would be likely to follow from this measure if Her Majesty's Government had an opportunity of producing some remedial measures at the same time with it. He asked for no measures on any subjects, save those which the right hon. Baronet had already declared his intention of introducing to the Legislature. The right hon. Baronet had already declared his intention of introducing measures on the subject of the relation between landlord and tenant in Ireland—on the subject of the political franchise, or for giving persons the right to vote for Members of Parliament, and on the subject of the Municipal Corporations. He did not wish to be understood as desiring to limit the questions of Irish legislation to these few topics. They were far more expansive; he did not ask the Government at present to introduce any other matters before Parliament. But when they were dealing with those awful crimes, of which his noble Friend the Member for Lynn had given them an account, and which, though justified in some particular instances, his noble Friend seemed to regard as the general state of Ireland, he thought they were bound to consider also whether there were not measures that might be introduced that would lessen the causes of these crimes. And when his noble Friend entered into the statement with which he had instructed the House, he begged to say, in reference to the newspaper accounts to which his noble Friend had referred, that he had himself read a newspaper account the other day, in which it was stated, that a whole village, containing 270 persons, had been razed to the ground, and the entire of that large number of individuals sent adrift on the high road, to sleep under the hedges, without even being permitted the privilege of boiling their potatoes, or obtaining shelter among the walls of the houses from which they had been dispossessed. That statement appeared within the last few days in a Dublin newspaper, and was given by a gentleman, the reporter of that newspaper, who had written the account from the spot, and who stated that the circumstances were known generally in the neighbourhood. He thought it would be for the advantage of legislation to take up this sub-
318
ject altogether; and immediately after the question of the Corn Bill had been disposed of. When they took into consideration these crimes, he thought they should at the same time ask themselves whether the law of landlord and tenant in Ireland should not be improved; at the same time that the Executive Government was armed with powers which would check the hands of the midnight assassin. With these feelings, therefore, he thought there would be a very great advantage—a very great moral advantage—if that House were to declare that, while they were the enemies of outrage—while they were determined to see the law enforced against the murderer and the assassin, that they at the same time felt a determination to look after the causes of this dreadful state, and to consider whether by other measures accompanying the present measure those causes might be in some degree removed, and the foundation laid for future peace, and thus that these unconstitutional Bills—for unconstitutional and harsh they were—might hereafter be dispensed with.
SIR R. PEEL: Sir, the other hon. Gentlemen who have preceded me made a remark, with the justice of which I concur, and in the truth of which I entirely agree—namely, that in determining the course of this Bill, to which we attach the greatest importance, the Government are in a situation of peculiar difficulty, in consequence of their present position in the House of Commons. Sir, for whatever other expressions I may have been prepared in reference to this question, I confess I was not prepared to hear a doubt suggested with respect to our sincerity on the subject of the Corn Bill. Looking at all the circumstances which attended the introduction of that measure—looking at the facts connected with its being brought forward—looking at the loss of friends which it entailed upon me—the loss of the confidence of those by whom we were heretofore supported—I can fairly adduce these facts as an answer to the insinuation of want of sincerity on the part of the Government. There is an event in connection with that Bill which I, for one, am not prepared to give in evidence of my sincerity. But, Sir, I shall not condescend to answer such a charge—the facts answer for themselves. With respect, however, to the order of the proceedings in the present instance, what are the real facts of the case? I did certainly, in answer to the question of the noble Lord the other night,

319
lay down the course which I proposed to take in reference to these Bills. I stated upon that occasion, on the part of the Government, my anxiety to pass the Corn Bill through this House; and I feel all that anxiety now as much as I did then. I said that after the Corn Bill should have been read a second time—assuming that the discussion upon it would take place on Friday night—I proposed to take the first reading of the Irish Assassination Bill on Monday before any other business; and I added, that if the decision of the House should be favourable to its introduction, I would then resume the Corn Bill, and proceed with it as rapidly as the forms of the House allowed, permitting no Government business of any kind whatever to infere with its further progress. That was the declaration which I made publicly, in reply to the question of the noble Lord, and to that declaration I now adhere. For we feel it a duty we owe to the country to ask for a decision of this House, at this time, upon the Irish Protection of Life Bill. That Bill has been since the 16th instant waiting for admission. There is hardly a case upon record in which a Bill sent down from the House of Lords has not been read a first time at once. But we are charged with precipitancy in the matter. So far, however, as precipitancy in regard to this Bill is concerned — a Bill, I admit, of an extraordinary and unconstitutional character — I said, in this case, the precedent shall be departed from, and such a delay interposed as its nature renders necessary for the purpose of a due previous consideration. Was that an indication of a desire on our part to urge on the discussion of the measure? Was that precipitancy on the part of the Government? But, Sir, if we should now consent to take no further steps whatever in the matter for the present; if my right hon. Friend be not allowed to state, on the part of the Government, what are the causes which led us to propose this measure, and what are the precautions which we propose to take against outrage and assassination in Ireland, what will be the inference drawn from such delay by the evil-disposed in that country? What will be the consequences of that departure from the course which has been usually pursued, after the House of Lords has passed the Bill, which Her Majesty recommended to Parliament in Her Speech from the Throne at the opening of the Session—if we consent to
320
postpone indefinitely a Bill which we have declared absolutely necessary, without making any statement respecting its necessity to the House, and in a total disregard of the common courtesy which has been always shown to a measure sent down from the House of Lords. Sir, it is true that the discussion on the first reading of this Bill may not, as it has been suggested, lead to any final results; but this it will, at all events, do—and under any circumstances—it will establish the important fact that the House of Commons is not indifferent to that result, or the causes which concurred to bring it about; and likewise show the country at large that Her Majesty's Government is awake to the necessity of applying a remedy to the evils which exist in Ireland. With respect to the observations of the noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck) respecting the support his Friends may give us, I can only say that the noble Lord and his Friends are as free to act as they choose in the matter. They are under no obligation to give me any support in this beyond that which honourable men, acting under a conscientious sense of public duty, are always disposed to give a Government. Sir, I know that a Government situated as we are with respect to our usual supporters, are exposed to extraordinary statements and imputations upon our conduct and motives, and we have had our share of them. The noble Lord the Member for Lynn said, for instance, that we are answerable for every murder committed in Ireland; while on the other side of the House it has been stated that we are accountable for the life of every one who dies of starvation in that country. It is certainly most unfortunate that the present Bill interferes with the progress of the other measures before the House for securing the advantages of free trade to the country: but after giving all the consideration which we could to the subject; after taking into account the inferences deducible from the facts which I have stated, we came to the conclusion that we should best consult the interests of the country, and most effectually discharge our duty, by now reading this Bill the first time, and then proceeding, without any further delay, with the Corn Bill. Sir, we are told that we shall meet with every kind of obstruction in our progress with these measures, for the purpose of promoting delay. Without despising the observations of hon. Gentlemen opposed to me, I do consider that it is the duty of a

321
Government to disregard menaces of this kind. It is our duty to propose those measures which we deem most conducive to the good of the country; and having done that, to leave it to the deliberation of the House—to the Commons of England—to dispose of them as they consider the most advisable. I know the power of individual Members to cause delay if they choose. I know the power they possess to postpone a debate, or to defeat a question, by moving continuous adjournments of the House. I cannot help it. But this I know also, that it does not release Ministers from their responsibility, or relieve them from the necessity of taking that course which in their conscience they esteem the most advantageous for the public interest. The course of the Government is prescribed by an imperative sense of public duty; and it would be unwise and unworthy to waver in it for a single moment, or permit such threats or such proceedings to have the effect of influencing its proceedings. On this point, Her Majesty's Ministers, though deeply regretting the delay which must unavoidably occur with the Corn Bill, still feel it to be their duty to ask the House to assent to the introduction of the Irish Bill. But we are told, if we do this we shall be met with all that delay which the forms of the House will permit. I deeply regret such a determination; and permit me to say I think it is hardly a proper way of meeting the subject. Such a course is not the best way of upholding the authority or of maintaining the respect due to that branch of the Legislature which contains within itself most of the democratic or popular principle. I do hope that the inconvenient course I have adverted to, will not be persevered in. It is not becoming or fitting the importance of the subject to refuse to hear us. After you have heard us you can make what Motion you please; but surely we have, a right to ask that the statement we have to make shall be first laid before the House. I do not say, by the course you say you will adopt, that you entirely debar us from the opportunity of making our statement; but I do say, by Motions of this kind—Motions of a technical or frivolous character—["No, no!"]—I withdraw the expression; nothing is further from my wish than to use a word that will call up angry feeling. I recall—I withdraw any expression that may tend to give offence; but when we are charged with trampling on the forms of the House, I am bound to say we cannot
322
under present circumstances take the ordinary course—we must waive the less pressing business to have an opportunity of bringing this Bill before the House. This course has over and over again been practised; other Bills on other occasions have had precedence, and all we now ask the House is to postpone the other Orders of the Day. Believing that we are taking the fairest path for all parties, and that my hon. Friend has a right to make the statement he is prepared to make, I hope the hon. Member will allow us to proceed.
LORD G. BENTINCKsaid, as he felt that he had been misunderstood by the noble Lord the Member for London, the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of War, and the right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), he begged to be allowed to state distinctly what he did say to the House. It was, that Government would be responsible for every murder committed in Ireland if any unnecessary delay was practised on their part in passing a measure which Her Majesty's Ministers had introduced, as they said, for the better protection of life in Ireland.
SIR R. H. INGLISconsidered that the last sentence of the noble Lord's (Lord J. Russell) speech furnished sufficient materials for the vote he was prepared to give. The noble Lord said, after the declarations which had been made with respect to the outrages on life and property in Ireland, he was willing to proceed to the consideration of remedial measures; but then the question arose did Her Majesty's Ministers' measure go too far, or was this measure brought in too soon? The noble Lord the Member for Lynn had said, not that the measure went too far, or that it was brought in with too much precipitation, but that Her Majesty's Ministers had neglected their duty in not bringing forward the measure months ago. He would ask, was the evil complained of of recent date? Had there not been found for some time past in the records of crime in Ireland sufficient grounds for the introduction of a measure even of a more stringent character than the Bill now proposed before the House? The object of beginning with this measure was in order to give moral support to the means for maintaining peace and order in Ireland; and possibly, if the other Orders of the Day, perhaps referring to matters of trifling importance, were to be taken before this measure, it might be misconstrued into an indifference towards the suppression of crime and the

323
protection of life and property in Ireland. He was greatly indebted to the noble Lord the Member for Lynn for the conclusive grounds he had urged for the adoption of the proposition of Her Majesty's Government. He believed—to use words which had been used in another place—that every day lost to a measure intended to produce greater security to life and property in Ireland, involved a responsibility to which he should be sorry to see his friends exposed. And when hon. Members on the other side declared they would not support Her Majesty's Ministers in a measure which they believed was hostile to the interests and alien to the feelings of the people of Ireland, he, for one, declared he was resolved to support no Government that would not take immediate and effectual measures to protect life and property in Ireland. His complaint against Her Majesty's Government was, that they had not acted with a due degree of energy in bringing forward some such measure before.
LORD WORSLEYbegged, considering the position in which he was placed, to be allowed to explain the ground on which he proposed to give his vote, otherwise it might be construed into a factious vote against the Government, than which nothing could be farther from his views. He asked the House to recollect the condition in which the agriculturists had been placed since November. They had been in a state of great uncertainty. In November last the farmers expected the ports would be opened, and that a great alteration in the Corn trade would occur. Ever since that period there had been great dismay and uncertainty in the corn trade. The sales that took place were only what might be called to provide a supply from hand to mouth; and as this uncertainty unquestionably existed, he was only taking that course which, conversant as he was with the feelings of the farmers, and acting up to the feelings of his constituents, he was satisfied was the most expedient. He was desirous of putting an end to further delay on the Corn Bill. He might say he should now be glad if no further opposition took place to the Bill; for after the decided majorities on two occasions, he felt he should not be justified in resisting the third reading of the Bill. If another division took place, he should record his vote against the Bill, as he had already done; but on account of the strong feeling which he entertained of the impolicy of de-
324
lay, as far as the interests of the agriculturists were concerned, he was desirous of seeing the question settled. It had been said if the House did not immediately pass the Irish Protection Bill, that it would show indifference to the continuance of crime; but if the first reading was taken as now desired, and nothing further done, would it not be construed into an indication that the question was looked on as a piece of etiquette, and that the Bill was not viewed with that importance it merited? On the present occasion he should vote differently from those with whom he had voted on the Corn Bill: he did so from a strong feeling that it was their duty towards the agriculturists, as it was also advantageous towards the trading interests of the country, that there should be no further delay in settling this much-agitated question.
COLONEL RAWDONremarked, that in one portion of his address the noble Lord the Member for Lynn had somewhat departed from the modesty of his propositions, by making use of an expression which, in Parliamentary language, he would describe as an audacious one. He considered that all the Irish Members had a right to speak on this question; and he utterly disclaimed the imputation that they wished to speak for purposes of delay, or that they were not desirous of putting an end to those murders that occasionally took place in Ireland. The noble Lord was, however, a good tactician, for he had been enabled to make two speeches already on the question. He would not follow the same course, and he would advise those friends to Ireland who were anxious to speak not to expend their ammunition now, but to reserve it for the fitting time. All he wished now to state was, that he was there to give food to the Irish people, and not to inflict Coercion Bills on them. The Irish Members had been roused by a speech in the other House of Parliament. The other side had been out of order. The noble Lord the Member for Lynn had used the name of a Peer, and he was entitled to do the same. The Duke of Wellington had made a speech which he — [The SPEAKER called the hon. and gallant Member to order.] He had heard the noble Lord the Member for Lynn make use of the name of a noble Lord, and he conceived he should be in order if he also named a Peer. ["No!"] Why did those Members call "no," and omit to do the same when the noble Lord spoke? If it was allowed on

325
one side it ought to be allowed on the other. The Duke of Wellington made a speech in another House.
The SPEAKER: The hon. and gallant Member is out of order in alluding to any debate in the other House. The noble Lord did not allude to any debate that had occurred in another place.
COLONEL RAWDONwould not allude to any debate whatever. He would only say that the Duke of Wellington had referred to some of the Articles of the Union, and had placed an interpretation on them which no Irish Member on this side of the House could approve of. When a Bill like the present measure, which so trenched on the liberty of the subject as this did, came before the House, he felt it to be his duty to take all the steps the forms of the House permitted to oppose its progress.
MR. J. O'CONNELL—[who on rising was met by cries of "Divide!"]—said, that it would be most conducive to the convenience of the House if they listened to what he had to say, for that interruptions such as he had met with on rising would afford a strong reason for moving successive adjournments. He confessed that he wished to hear from the Treasury bench some answer to the extraordinary representations made on that side of the House. He had seen Irish Member after Irish Member, having the esteem and affection of their countrymen, get up and make strong representations to the Government on the unfairness, on the unprecedented course, and even the insolence of bringing forward this measure to-night. No answer had been given to those statements. The hon. Gentlemen on the Treasury bench had sat still; for what reason he did not know; or rather he did. The people of Ireland knew, and had long known, with what feelings and sentiments their Irish Representatives were regarded by hon. Gentlemen opposite. The right hon. the Home Secretary had deprecated the opposition which the Irish Members were prepared to give this Bill, in all its stages, and by every means, and by the use of every form, until the House chose to trample on its own forms, as they would trample on the liberties of Ireland, if they passed this Bill; and the right hon. Secretary proceeded to speak of their opposition as the opposition of a small party. He trusted that the people of Ireland would hear of that expression. The Irish Members in that House were a small party, no doubt. The Irish people had long been
326
complaining of that as one of their chief grievances, ever since the Union was carried against their wishes. In 1834, when the Irish Members, a small party then, came forward to state the opinions of the people of Ireland, and to represent that they wanted to have their own Parliament, the Commons of England met their arguments with derision, and their Motion with a negative; but the House of Commons added to that negative a solemn promise that, short of a Repeal of the Union, they would give the Irish people all constitutional rights. That promise was repeated by the House of Lords and by the Throne; but it had been foully broken. Had that promise been kept, the Repeal agitation (which had now risen to such a height, and which, by fair means and foul, they had tried to put down, but which would still effect its glorious object) would have been rendered comparatively weak, instead of being, as it now was, strong. Those who turned out of office men that endeavoured to be friends to Ireland, defeated or mutilated every beneficial measure promised by the three branches of the Legislature twelve years ago, and now came forward to taunt the Irish Members with being "a small party." They were a small party, but they had 8,000,000 of Irish hearts at their back. Let these not be despised. There had been no answer given from the Treasury bench to any Irish Member. The hon. Member below him (Sir W. Somerville) had been passed over; and the only answer drawn from the Government had been to an English Member (Lord G. Bentinck), who was, indeed, a leader of a "small party," who almost spoke as if he were Minister already, and misgoverning Ireland, but whose party must become still less, for it was a party that was opposing the first and commonest dictate of humanity—to give cheap bread to the poor man. The right hon. Baronet, indeed, told hon. Members not to allow their conduct to have the appearance of sanctioning crime; but with the same energy with which that imputation was put forth, did he throw it back on the party of the right hon. Baronet. That party was sanctioning crime; that party was guilty of crime. The right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had complained that two inconsistent charges were brought against him; but the charges were not inconsistent; he was guilty of both. As to that of starving the people, was he not giving proof of its truth in impeding the

327
Corn Bill by forcing on this discussion, so useless on his part, so unavoidable on that of the Irish Members? And was he not liable to the other charge? He had to accuse that right hon. Gentleman and his party of being accessary to the crimes of the peasantry of Ireland. Two years ago, when the right hon. Baronet issued the Devon Commission, some of the Irish Members came over and said, "For Heaven's sake, for humanity's sake, for Christianity's sake, take care what you are doing; you are raising the most extravagant hopes in a people driven almost to madness by long suffering and misery, such as no other people on the face of the globe would have borne without having recourse to insane and criminal, but perhaps successful, measures; do not issue the Commission unless you are prepared to act instantly upon its report, for you will disappoint in the breasts of desperate men the wild hopes which their wretchedness causes them to conceive." That Commission made representations that ought to have had their effect; but what had been done? Why, a Bill was produced last year which would have been ludicrous, if the subject were not too serious. If there was any intention to throw upon the Irish Members the imputation of giving the slightest encouragement to crime, he turned it upon the right hon. Baronet, and told him, that he and those who acted with him were deep dyed in guilt on that score—that they had had warning and neglected it, and they alone were to blame. The right hon. Baronet had used some strong expressions that night; as he had withdrawn them, his apology should be accepted; but it was to be hoped there would be no recurrence of such language. He, however, had an objection of his own to take to this Bill—there was injustice in its title. When he put a notice of Motion on paper, giving what he conceived to be its proper designation to a deputation of persons, he would not call them gentlemen, because he thought they were not deserving of the name of men, who prayed the Lord Lieutenant to oblige them by shedding the blood of a man (Bryan Seery) whom his countrymen believed to be innocent, he being then most kindly remonstrated with in a quarter where he had always received great courtesy, consented to the erasure of a phrase objected to as pledging the House to an expression of opinion on a subject not as yet discussed; but this Bill did that very thing by its
328
false and calumnious title. It pretended to be a Bill "for the better protection of life and property in Ireland;" but it was an invasion of property, and it would increase crime. There was also a direct case in point in the instance of the hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. P. Scrope), to whose Motion for the better protection of life by giving outdoor relief, the right hon. the Home Secretary objected, that with such phraseology it ought not to be entertained. The Irish Members would offer to the present most inefficient Bill every opposition to the very last moment; if it were "factious" to defend a portion of the few remaining rights enjoyed by the people of Ireland, he (Mr. John O'Connell) should be proud to have the epithet applied to him, in resisting this most wanton, useless, and tyrannous oppression. They were not seeking to defeat the Corn Bill; they were as anxious as any hon. Gentlemen for the success of that Bill, though the charge had been trumped up against them in some protection quarters, that the Repealers considered the Corn Law an advantage given by the Union to Ireland. If it were, they would not support an advantage purchased at the price of the misery and privations of another people; but there was no advantage in what was strangely called the Irish monopoly of the English market. One reason why he wished for the repeal of the Corn Law was, that it would remove the difficulty of commercial arrangement between the two countries when the Union came to be repealed. [A laugh.] The noble Lord (Lord G. Bentinck) laughed; he would have laughed as much three years ago at the prophecy of what was happening now. A few words to that future Minister. He had spoken of a murder of which the Irish Members had not heard before; and the right hon. the Home Secretary had not produced the returns ordered, though he promised them before this Bill was moved; and there would be so much the less means of answering the made up and garbled statement from the officials in Ireland, which would presently be made by the Government. But did that noble Lord say a word about a Coercion Bill for South Wales, when an unfortunate woman was murdered in the Rebecca riots, and the country was in the possession of a lawless and violent mob? Why did he seek to inflame the minds of hon. Members by bringing forward this isolated case, when there were no means of meeting it on the instant? Were the

329
noble Lord and his fellows to talk of high honour and chivalry, while they were keeping up an odious tax on the poor man's bread, enabling the landed aristocracy to remain the grudging shopkeepers of corn; and while they stood forward ready to pledge themselves, without even hearing the case, to cleave down the last remaining portion of a people's liberties? The chivalry that would take two such opposite lines of conduct, was not a chivalry that would reflect honour on any country. The proposed measure was insulting to Ireland, and as unconstitutional as it was unnecessarily exasperating in its character. The right hon. Baronet opposite ought to take the good advice which had been given him, and avail himself of the present opportunity of bringing in his remedial measures, to show that he was in earnest in his desire to benefit Ireland. But if the right hon. Baronet would not do that—if he would have coercion—if he would proceed against the wishes and remonstrances of the Irish people, then let the consequences be as they might, and must be, upon him and him alone, not only as regarded his Corn Bill, but as to the connexion between the two countries.
MR. COBDENhad not exactly understood a remark which had fallen from the right hon. Baronet at an early part of the evening, as to the course which was to be pursued with regard to the Irish Bill. Did the right hon. Baronet mean that the statement, and only the statement, was to be made that evening by the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department; or did he intend to state that it was his intention to press for a division upon the Motion?
SIR R. PEELsaid, that in the remark which he had made, he had by no means intended to imply that he wished only that his right hon. Friend should make the statement; but having done that, it was for the House to determine in what manner to deal with the Bill.
MR. COBDENsaid, he could not help then expressing his sincere regret at the course which Her Majesty's Ministers had taken, for he regarded it as likely to inflict a great calamity both on England and Ireland. Though that coercion measure was introduced as one which would be likely to contribute to the peace of Ireland, they must recollect that those who represented the feelings of the people of Ireland in that House, and who led public opinion in that country, were decidedly opposed to it. But
330
whilst that was the case with regard to that Bill, on the subject of corn, which was to give food to the people, there was no difference of opinion; for his hon. and learned Friend, who might be said to represent Ireland, had come over to London on purpose, if he (Mr. Cobden) had understood him rightly, to aid Ministers in carrying a measure which was to give food to the people. The Corn Bill, therefore, should take precedence of the Coercion Bill, inasmuch as it would tend to pacify the people of Ireland, by supplying them with food. What, however, would be the delay to the Corn Bill which would be incurred by proceeding with the Coercion Bill? They would go into that discussion that night. The hon. Member for Limerick had told them that the Irish Members were prepared to oppose it for three nights. That was a Government night, Friday would be another Government night, and Monday another. Those three nights would be absorbed in discussing that measure, and they could not depend on private Members withdrawing their Motions on private nights to make way for the Coercion Bill. They might have to-morrow and the following Tuesday and Thursday, if they liked, upon the Corn Bill, because private Members would give up their private Notices to accommodate the Government on a subject on which they were so generally agreed. But by proceeding with the Coercion Bill at that time, they prevented the possibility of taking another step in the Corn Bill before Easter; and the consequence would be, as had already been observed, that those hon. Gentlemen on the protectionist benches would return to that House, trusting that hon. Members had forgotten all their bad arguments, and would repeat the same things over again. In all human probability, then, the Corn Bill would not enter the House of Lords before the beginning or middle of May; and when it would come out again, Heaven only knew! He certainly regarded it as a great calamity. He was not going to impute motives to the Government; but something had actuated them which he could not understand. There were reasons, he was sure, which they had not had explained in that House, because in his opinion no sufficient reasons had been stated in, that House to warrant the Government in the course which they had pursued. At the same time he altogether repudiated the idea that there had been a base compact between the Government and the hon.

331
Gentlemen opposite. The conversation which had been retailed and published in that day's paper, ought not to have been published, had it even occurred; but he did not believe that any such compact as was referred to had been entered into. The right hon. Baronet, however, had been actuated by decisions which took place in the Cabinet four or five days ago, before he knew what course the Irish Members proposed to take; but even if the right hon. Baronet persisted in pressing the Coercion Bill, when he knew the course which the Irish Members intended to adopt, he (Mr. Cobden) should certainly blame him for the consequences. But when he said that, he would repeat his belief in the right hon. Baronet's sincere desire to pass the Corn Bill; and he rejoiced, and the country would rejoice, that the right hon. Baronet had declared that nothing should prevent him proving his sincerity of resisting any curtailment or mutilation of that measure. He had a perfect belief in the sincerity of the right hon. Baronet; but he regretted the course which he had determined to pursue. There were petitions from the manufacturing districts every day praying that there might be no further delay in passing the Corn Bill. The agricultural classes were almost equally anxious for a settlement: though they might not wish it exactly in his way, yet all concurred in deprecating uncertainty and delay; and under those circumstances he should regret having to vote against the Government upon the Motion before the House.
The House divided on the Question, that the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question:—Ayes, 147; Noes, 108: Majority, 39.

List of the AYES.

Acland, T. D.

Boldero, H. G.

A'Court, Capt.

Borthwick, P.

Adderley, C. B.

Botfield, B.

Arbuthnott, hon. H.

Bowles, Adm.

Baillie, Col.

Bramston, T. W.

Baillie, W.

Broadley, H.

Baird, W.

Brace, Lord E.

Baldwin, B.

Buckley, E.

Bankes, G.

Buller, Sir J. Y.

Barkly, H.

Cardwell, E.

Baring, rt. hn. W. B.

Carew, W. H. P.

Baskerville, T. B. M.

Carnegie, hon. Capt.

Beckett, W.

Chelsea, Visct.

Benbow, J.

Chute, W. L. W.

Bennet, P.

Clerk, rt. hon. Sir G.

Bentinck, Lord G.

Clive, Visct.

Bentinck, Lord H.

Cochrane, A.

Beresford, Maj.

Cockburn, rt. hn. Sir G.

Blackburne, J. I.

Collett, W. R.

Blackstone, W. S.

Colquhoun, J. C.

Bodkin, W. H.

Coote, Sir C. H.

332

Copeland, Ald.

Mackenzie, T.

Corry, rt. hon. H.

Maclean, D.

Cripps, W.

McGeachy, F. A.

Davies, D. A. S.

M'Neill, D.

Deedes, W.

Mahon, Visct.

Denison, E. B.

Maxwell, hon. J. P.

Dick, Q.

Meynell, Capt.

Dickinson, F. H.

Milnes, R. M.

Douglas, Sir H.

Morgan, O.

Douglas, Sir C. E.

Mundy, E. M.

Douro, Marquess of

Neville, R.

Drummond, H. H.

Newdegate, C. N.

Duncannon, Visct.

Owen, Sir J.

Egerton, W. T.

Packe, C. W.

Filmer, Sir E.

Palmer, R.

Fitzroy, hon. H.

Patten, J. W.

Flower, Sir J.

Peel, rt. hon. Sir R.

Floyer, J.

Peel, J.

Fox, S. L.

Polhill, F.

Frewen, C. H.

Rashleigh, W.

Fuller, A. E.

Reid, Col.

Gaskell, J. Milnes

Repton, G. W. J.

Gordon, hon. Capt.

Round, C. G.

Gore, M.

Round, J.

Goulburn, rt. hon. H.

Russell, J. D. W.

Graham, rt. hon. Sir J.

Seymer, H. K.

Greene, T.

Shaw, rt. hon. F.

Grogan, E.

Sheppard, T.

Hamilton, W. J.

Shirley, E. J.

Harcourt, G. G.

Smythe, hon. G.

Hayes, Sir E.

Somerset, Lord G.

Heathcote, Sir W.

Sotheron, T. H. S.

Henley, J. W.

Spooner, R.

Herbert, rt. hon. S.

Stanton, W. H.

Hervey, Lord A.

Stuart, J.

Hodgson, R.

Taylor, E.

Hogg, J. W.

Thesiger, Sir F.

Hope, A.

Thompson, Ald.

Hope, G. W.

Tomline, G.

Hudson, G.

Trelawny, J. S.

Ingestre, Visct.

Trench, Sir F. W.

Inglis, Sir R. H.

Trotter, J.

James, Sir W. C.

Vyse, R. H. R. H.

Jermyn, Earl

Wall, C. B.

Jocelyn, Visct.

Walpole, S. H.

Johnstone, H.

Walsh, Sir J. B.

Jolliffe, Sir W. G. H.

Wood, Col. T.

Jones, Capt.

Worcester, Marquess of

Kelly, Sir F.

Wortley, hon. J. S.

Kemble, H.

Yorke, hon. E. T.

Kirk, P.

Yorke, H. R.

Lascelles, hon. W. S.

TELLERS.

Legh, G. C.

Young, J.

Lygon, hon. Gen.

Baring, H.

List of the NOES.

Acheson, Visct.

Butler, P. S.

Aldam, W.

Carew, hon. R. S.

Archbold, R.

Chapman, B.

Baine, W.

Christie, W. D.

Bannerman, A.

Cobden, R.

Barclay, D.

Colebrooke, Sir T. E.

Barnard, E. G.

Collett, J.

Bernal, R.

Cowper, hon. W. F.

Blewitt, R. J.

Craig, W. G.

Bowring, Dr.

Curteis, H. B.

Bridgeman, H.

Dawson, hon. T. V.

Bright, J.

D'Eyncourt, rt. hn. C. T.

Brotherton, J.

Duncan, Visct.

Browne, R. D.

Duncan, G.

Browne, hon. W.

Dundas, Adm.

Buller, C.

Ebrington, Visct.

Busfeild, W.

Elphinstone, H.

333

Escott, B.

O'Connell, J.

Esmonde, Sir T.

O'Conor Don

Etwall, R.

Osborne, R.

Ferguson, Col.

Paget, Col.

Fitzgerald, R. A.

Philips, G. R.

Forster, M.

Plumridge, Capt.

Gibson, T. M.

Powell, C.

Gore, hon. R.

Power, J.

Grattan, H.

Protheroe, E.

Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.

Rawdon, Col.

Hall, Sir B.

Ross, D. R.

Hatton, Capt. V.

Russell, Lord J.

Hawes, B.

Rutherford, A.

Hill, Lord M.

Scrope, G. P.

Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir J.

Smith, rt. hon. R. V.

Horsman, E.

Somers, J. P.

Howard, hon. C. W. G.

Stanton, Sir G. T.

Humphery, Ald.

Stewart, P. M.

Hutt, W.

Strickland, Sir G.

Kelly, J.

Strutt, E.

Labouchere, rt. hon. H.

Tancred, H. W.

Langston, J. H.

Thornely, T.

Layard, Capt.

Troubridge, Sir E. T.

Macaulay, rt. hon. T. B.

Tufnell, K.

Macnamara, Maj.

Vane, Lord H.

M'Carthy, A.

Wakley, T.

M'Donnell, J. M.

Warburton, H.

Marsland, H.

Ward, H. G.

Mitcalfe, H.

Wawn, J. T.

Mitchell, T. A.

Wilde, Sir T.

Morpeth, Visct.

Williams, W.

Morris, D.

Winnington, Sir T. E.

Mostyn, hon. E. M. L.

Wood, C.

Muntz, G. F.

Worsley, Lord

Napier, Sir C.

Wyse, T.

Norreys, Sir D. J.

O'Brien, J.

TELLERS.

O'Brien, T.

O'Brien, W. S.

O'Connell D.

Somerville, Sir W.

PROTECTION OF LIFE (IRELAND) BILL.
SIR J. GRAHAM: Sir, in the absence of any Member of the Government more immediately connected with Ireland, it is my duty to propose to the House the first reading of a Bill which has come down from the other House of Parliament. The hon. Member for Stockport, just before the division, stated that some mysterious motive had swayed the conduct of Government in pressing this Motion upon the House. Now, Sir, I hope the House will indulge me with a patient hearing on the present occasion, while I endeavour to state the urgent reasons which in my judgment operate conclusively in demonstrating that no time ought to be lost in the unhappy condition of affairs which it will be my duty to lay before the House. The task is a painful one; but at the same time there are some consolatory reflections connected with it. I do not present myself on the present occasion to bring any sweeping or general accusation against the Irish people. The case which I am about to bring before the House is not one which affects Ireland collectively; it is a case of a local and
334
topical nature, but affecting particular localities to an alarming extent. Sir, there are other reflections connected with this matter which are equally consolatory. An accusation has come from one quarter of the House to-night, that we have delayed this measure too long. I confess it is more gratifying to my feelings that the accusation should be, that we postponed it too long, than that we brought it forward abruptly, prematurely, or unnecessarily. I also must be permitted to state in justice to the Government that we have now for nearly five years conducted the affairs of this country in very difficult times, and under adverse circumstances; that during that time we have been charged with the responsibility of governing Ireland, and preserving peace, law, and order; and that, up to the present moment, we have discharged that arduous duty, relying on the existing law, and without applying to Parliament for any extraordinary or unconstitutional powers. Nay, Sir—although I do not dwell with unnecessary stress on the fact—there has been more than one instance in which we have relaxed existing laws, in which we have not deemed it our duty to apply to Parliament for the renewal of Acts of a coercive character for Ireland. When we have called for re-enactment, we have, in more than one instance, remitted the more obnoxious portions of the law. I will refer, as an illustration, to the renewal of the Unlawful Oaths Act. That was an Act containing, as it appeared to us, provisions of an objectionable character. Under the original Bill the onus lay on the innocent person to prove his innocence; we threw the onus on the accuser, thus relieving the accused of the difficult task of proving a negative. Then in the Arms Act, although in some points we increased its stringency, yet there were many obnoxious penalties which we removed, for instance the prohibition against a man carrying on the trade of a blacksmith without a license. In this and similar cases we repealed the enactments and remitted the penalty. I must also be perduced to remind the House that the various measures brought forward by Government in the course of the last two years have been conceived in a spirit not unfriendly to the feelings, more especially the religious feelings, of the Irish people. Our measures have not been conceived in a sectarian spirit, though there may be difference of opinion as to their practical effect. Those measures were intended as peace-offerings, if they

335
have not been universally so received. I would more particularly refer to the Charitable Bequests' Act, by which great facilities were afforded for the endowment of the Roman Catholic clergy, and for providing glebe houses and chapels for the ministers of that persuasion. I would also refer to the Bill, which I myself had the honour or proposing, with reference to the education of the Roman Catholic priesthood at Maynooth—a measure which, I am sorry to say, gave great offence to many of those of my hon. Friends on this side, who were generally the supporters of the Government, but which, nevertheless, we felt it our duty to the Irish people earnestly to press. Then, with regard to the question of education generally (and I only glance at the matter as affording another conclusive proof that, in our legislation for Ireland we are actuated by no hostile spirit or feeling against the people of that country), the Irish Colleges' Bill, which it will be remembered I brought under the special notice of Parliament, in the course of the last Session, is, I think, a measure which, if carried into execution in the manner I anticipated, will diffuse amongst the middle classes of Ireland all the benefits of an improved, an extensive, and a liberal system of education. So also with respect to the National Board — we have adopted measures for giving increased facilities for extending the benefits of that institution, large as those benefits are already—inasmuch as between 400,000 and 500,000 children are educated in Ireland at this time under the national system, and that too in a manner which would do credit to any part of the United Kingdom — we have also taken measures for providing district schools in various localities in Ireland for carrying out the system still further, and affording its benefit to the children of a somewhat higher class. I must also refer to another matter which is, in my opinion, one of primary importance. It will be remembered that Her Majesty's Government, acting on the advice of the Landlord and Tenants' Commission, brought forward in the other House a Bill for the improvement of the law and the better regulation of the relations of landlord and tenant in Ireland. The subject being one of great difficulty, the Bill was not considered by the other House as then proposed, sufficiently matured to receive their sanction. During the recess, we have given the subject increased attention, and in concert and co-operation with the Com-
336
mission over which the Earl of Devon presided, and of which four Members of the House formed a constituent part, in concert and co-operation with those hon. Gentlemen and the other Members of that Commission, we have endeavoured to improve and mature that measure. It is at this moment in an advanced stage of preparation; and sanctioned, I believe unanimously, by that Commission, it is now receiving the final consideration of the Government, and I trust shortly to be able to present it to the House. Then, Sir, I must observe with reference to this measure, painful as it is to me to propose it, unconstitutional as I admit it to be, I, for one, was convinced of the necessity of some such law in the early part of the Session; but though I foresaw the necessity, I could not reconcile it either to my judgment or to my conscience to be a party to its introduction while I saw the extreme physical want and distress of the Irish people, arising from the failure of the staple article of their food, the accounts of which have been in various ways brought before this House. I say though I saw that necessity, I felt that it was a matter of primary importance that provision should first be made, by an effort of the Government to relieve those physical wants, so far as legislation could effect that object; and I, for one, could not consent to be a party to the introduction of such a measure as the present, unless I had previously obtained the sanction of the House of Commons to the introduction of the measure which has been brought under your notice, and the principle of which has been affirmed by the House—the Bill to open the Corn Trade, and to place articles which are of the first necessity, as forming the food of the people, on the cheapest possible footing. I must be allowed to remark, that the good effect of what has been done in this direction is already perceptible. The admission of maize free of duty is already operating most beneficially in Ireland. The demand for that article, I am informed, has already become great. It is found to be much cheaper than oats, and is superseding the demand for that description of grain in Waterford and the other ports in which it has been admitted. And I have reason to believe that the consequence of introducing maize into Ireland will be, in some degree, to supersede the use of potatoes among the people of that country as the chief article of food, and gradually, as I hope, to elevate the scale of their living.

337
The prejudice against maize, as an article of food, is gradually subsiding in Ireland; and I am confident that the measures I have referred to, together with the advances and loans of public money, for the promotion of public works in Ireland, which Parliament has authorized to be made, will have a most beneficial effect on the physical, as well as upon the moral and social, condition of the Irish. I believe that, by a judicious expenditure of those funds, the productive powers of the country will be increased; the physical energies of the people will be brought into action; their moral qualities and social habits will be improved; and when they find themselves employed, as they will be, for wages, and supporting themselves and their families by their industry, they will be enabled to subsist without being, as they are now, entirely dependent on the produce of their holdings; and the tendency will be to raise the scale of their living, to increase their physical comforts, and improve their habits of life. And by these means, with the extension of the blessings of education amongst the great body of the people, we expect that the social and moral condition of the people will gradually improve, and the effect will be most satisfactory; and not only will these measures, I trust be satisfactory, in regard to the increased benefits they will confer upon, and the improvement they will gradually effect in the condition of, the Irish people, but also the effect of this improvement will be reflected in our legislation: because the Legislature will naturally have greater confidence and trust in a people so elevated and so improved, than in a people debased by crime; and thus our legislation, in regard to Ireland, will be guided by a more confiding and a more conciliatory spirit. But, Sir, time is required to accomplish these great and necessarily progressive improvements; and in the meanwhile we have to deal with a case of urgent and pressing importance, in regard to which no time can, in my opinion, safely be lost; but we must apply such a remedy as is within the immediate power of the Legislature. I do not stand here to prefer an indictment against the people of Ireland: quite the contrary; for I have the pleasure of stating to the House, that of the thirty-two counties of which Ireland is composed, in the majority of them it will be found, by a reference to the statistical returns, that life and property are as secure as in most, if not in every
338
county in England. I repeat, that this is not a case affecting the whole thirty-two counties of Ireland; so far from it, I am in a condition to show, that in eighteen of them crime, far from increasing, has actually diminished within the last year. It is unnecessary for me to detain the House by specifying the counties in which this diminution of crime has taken place. Suffice it to say, that there are eighteen counties in Ireland out of the thirty-two in which there has been no increase; and that there are many in which the returns show that in the year 1845 crime has actually decreased. [Mr. O'CONNELL: Tyrone!] Yes, in Tyrone there has been a large decrease. I find by the Constabulary Returns for the county of Tyrone, that the number of crimes in 1845 was 180, as against 220 in the preceding year, showing a decrease of forty in the course of one year. But I will go further, and state, that I do not think this Bill could be maintained by a reference to more than ten out of the whole thirty-two counties; and still further I will say, that if it were not for the condition of five of those counties, I, as a Member of Her Majesty's Government, could not conscientiously propose, and Parliament would not be justified in passing, such a measure. I will state which those five counties are. I am sorry that I shall have occasion to trespass upon the attention of the House at some length; but in proposing a measure like the present—a measure which I am bound to admit is of an unconstitutional character, and which extraordinary circumstances alone can justify—I feel it incumbent upon me to explain to the House what those circumstances are, and lay before them the grounds upon which it has been brought forward. Those five counties to which I have referred, the present condition of which not only justifies, but calls for this measure, are Tipperary, Clare, Roscommon, Limerick, and Leitrim. I have said there are five other counties in which crime has also increased, but not to so great an extent as in these. Those counties are Cavan, Fermanagh, King's County, Longford, and Westmeath. Then, in the ten counties in Ireland in which crime has increased, and crime of that peculiar character which I am disposed to term insurrectionary, I will state the extent of that increase by a reference to the returns of the actual number of crimes committed in each of those counties, in the two years 1844 and 1845:—

339

In 1844.

In 1845.

Cavan

109

257

Fermanagh

80

166

King's County

226

301

Longford

205

372

In Westmeath there has been an increase of 120. In the other counties the Returns show:—

In 1844.

In 1845.

Increase.

Leitrim

228

922

694

Roscommon

264

716

452

Limerick

321

460

139

Tipperary

908

992

84

Now, Sir, I think I can present this matter to the House in a light, which, while it appears to me to be most conclusive, is at the same time most alarming. By the last returns, I find that the whole population of Ireland is 8,175,000. The population of the five counties to which I have alluded, and I would fix the attention of the House on this, the whole population of these five counties of Tipperary, Clare, Roscommon, Limerick, and Leitrim, is 1,412,000, or little more than one-sixth of the whole population of Ireland. Now, the crimes to which I more particularly refer are of an insurrectionary character, affecting and endangering life, and attacking and destroying property. The offenders are generally actuated by motives of revenge, arising from individual wrong; and, considering themselves injured, instead of resorting to the law for redress, they seek to obtain it by their own hands. The crimes thus committed are homicides, firing at the person, aggravated assaults, assaults endangering life, incendiarism, killing or maiming cattle, demanding and robbery of arms, bearing or appearing in arms, administering unlawful oaths, threatening notices, levelling or destroying fences, malicious injury to property, firing at dwelling-houses. Now I will compare the number of these several crimes, committed in these five counties, with the number committed in all the other counties of Ireland; and I have to state that the homicides, in 1845, in the five counties, were 47; while, in the whole of the rest of Ireland, the number returned was only 92. Therefore, in five counties, with a population of only one-sixth of the whole population of Ireland, the number of homicides committed in the year amounts to one-third of the whole number committed in the whole of Ireland. In those five counties, in 1845, there were 85 offences of firing at the person. There were only 53 such offences in the rest of Ireland. Therefore there
340
were two-thirds of the whole number committed in those counties. Of aggravated assaults in those counties in 1845, there were 190, and 350 in the whole of the rest of Ireland; that is, there were two-fifths of the whole number in the five counties. There were in those counties 110 assaults endangering life; 127 in the rest of Ireland, or one-half of the whole arose in those five counties. There were 139 offences of incendiarism in the five counties, 339 in the rest of Ireland, giving two-sevenths of the whole for the five counties. Killing or maiming cattle, 108 in the five counties, 164 in the rest of Ireland, or two-fifths of the whole arose in the five counties. Demanding and robbery of arms—a crime of the most suspicious and fearful character—in 1845, in the five counties, there were 420 offences; in the rest of Ireland 131, or four-fifths of the whole arose in the five counties. Appearing armed; of these offences 64 were produced in the five counties in 1845; in the rest of Ireland only 25 or two-thirds of the whole arose in the five counties. There were 190 offences of administering unlawful oaths; there were only, of offences of a similar description, in the rest of Ireland, 33, or six-sevenths of the whole amount arose in the five counties. In the year 1845 there were reported 1,043 offences of sending threatening notices, in the five counties; only 901 such offences in the rest of Ireland, that is to say, eleven-twentieths, or more than one-half of the whole, were committed in these five counties. Attacking houses, 309 in the five counties, 174 in the rest of Ireland, or three-fifths of the whole amount arose in the five counties. Of the offence of levelling and destroying fences, there were 22 instances; in the rest of Ireland, 34, or three-eighths of the whole have been committed in the five counties. Of malicious injuries to property, 104 in the five counties, 306 in the rest of Ireland; being one-fourth of the whole in the counties. Now, Sir, I would beg to observe, that the last crime is the most important and most deserving of the careful attention of the House; for the worst symptom, I do not fear to say, of the last few months, has been the increase of the crime of firing into dwelling-houses after dark, with the malicious purpose of wounding promiscuously the inmates, whoever they may be. Now, the number of these offences of firing into dwelling-houses was, in 1845, 93 in the five counties; 41 in the rest of Ireland, being seven-tenths of the whole in the five

341
counties. Then, Sir, let us ask what, up to the last moment is the condition of those five counties? I have here a return made up to the end of February, respecting four out of the five counties, in the two months of the present year, January and February; and in those months there were in Tipperary, 8 homicides; 6 offences of firing at the person; 13 robberies of arms; 18 firings into houses; 69 offences of sending threatening notices; 14 attacks on houses. In Limerick (exclusive of the city of Limerick), there were, within two months, 3 murders; 5 firings at the person; 12 firings into houses; 26 robberies of arms; 50 threatening notices sent; 18 attacks on houses. In Clare there were in those two months, 1 murder, 1 firing at the person, 7 firings into houses, 20 robberies of arms, 17 threatening notices sent. In Roscommon there were 1 murder, 5 firings at the person, 3 firings into houses, 31 robberies of arms, 61 threatening notices sent, 42 offences of administering unlawful oaths. Now I must be permitted to say, that if in the discharge of my painful duty it were necessary to bring under the immediate notice of the House the details of the crimes to which these returns refer, it would revolt the feeling of the House, and moreover it would be impossible to go through the detail satisfactorily. I shall not therefore make a particular statement of these crimes; but it will be my duty to classify them, in order to endeavour to put the House in possession of the general character of them. Observe, I shall confine myself (except in those cases in which I shall explain that I am deviating from this rule), to the five counties I have named; and allow me also to say, that I shall read to you nothing which has not been laid before the Government by responsible officers—either by resident stipendiary magistrates, or officers connected with and acting under the constabulary force—their reports being forwarded to me from the Government in Ireland; and let me further observe, that the crimes I am about to detail to the House are neither of a sectarian nor political character. This is a remarkable feature in the case. Protestants and Roman Catholics—Orangemen and Repealers, all are equally the victims of these crimes. There is nothing exclusive in their character; and they appear to find their victims in each sect almost in proportion to their respective numbers. Again, this state of crime is by no means new in these particular districts: unhap-
342
pily the evil appears to be rooted. The efforts of former Governments as well as our own have been put forth for the purpose of eradicating this species of crime; but all have signally failed. Since my attention has been directed to this subject, I have found, too, that this description of crime, if allowed to continue unchecked, has a tendency to spread; and other counties in the immediate neighbourhood become infected. This is shown by what I stated at the commencement, that in some other counties within the last 18 months, crime has increased, and requires the strong hand of the law to check it. Before, however, I specify the particulars of many of these crimes, I will ask you to consider for a moment what a serious disgrace their existence is to the age, to the Government, and to the country in which we live. They are in fact a blot on Christianity, a disgrace to our civil policy: they appear to me to be inconsistent with the boasted liberty of this country—with the freedom of our institutions—the beneficence of our laws—the refinement of our manners—the wisdom of our age—and the purity of our religion, the precepts of which are common to us all; which we believe to be derived from Divine origin; which we inculcate as the doctrines of truth; but which are so violated by these crimes that we are disgraced and lowered to the level of a savage or a heathen country. I am unwilling to detain the House longer than is absolutely necessary; but on a subject of this importance I consider it my duty to illustrate what I have stated by specimens of the crimes. They are only examples of those crimes, the general numerical result of which in these five counties I have already stated to the House. The first class of crimes to which I will call your attention is that of "persons murdered or injured in consequence of their relations having taken or refusing to give up land;" or murders in connexion with the occupation of, or ejectment from land. The first case which I speak of occurred in Tipperary in May, 1845. A certain man had received a portion of land with his wife as her fortune, on condition of his paying a specified sum of money to her relatives. The wife died; the man married again; the friends of the deceased wife wanted to recover possession of the land, which was refused; the man was several times assaulted, and was ultimately compelled—the Report states—
"—to quit the land and the neighbourhood. A

343
feud was thus created between the friends of the first and second wives. As a party of the former were returning from the market of Roscrea to Moneygall, they were waylaid and assaulted with stones by some of the latter, and several serious injuries were inflicted. John Kennelly (belonging to neither party), who happened also to be returning from the market, endeavoured to interpose as a peacemaker, when he was knocked down, and the back of his skull fractured by a blow of a stone. While down he received a second blow of a stone on the side of the head. Kennelly died in about a week."
There was another case in Tipperary:—
"The brother of the deceased had taken a few acres of land some few years ago, from which the former tenant had been ejected. He had been (previously to this murder) served with a threatening notice to quit. As deceased sat with his brother in the evening, four men entered the house, two of them presenting a pistol at each of the brothers, and demanded why they did not obey the notice. One of them struck the deceased on the head, breaking his skull, which he did not long survive."
I should now wish to produce some proofs of the interference with the relation of landlord and tenant, and the murderous consequences of such interference One instance, occurred in the case of a Mr. Samuel Smith, on the 18th of January, 1845, in Tipperary:—
"The attention of a resident of Borrisofarney having been attracted by a horse passing his door without a rider, he discovered, at about eighty yards distanee on the road, the body of Mr. Smith; the skull broken in two places, and the brain protruding. At the inquest held the medical examiners were of opinion that the injuries could not have been received by falling from the horse, nor did the dress of the deceased exhibit any appearance of his having been dragged along the road. The deceased, who was a resident of Dublin, had been visiting some of his tenants, and was returning to Busherstown, whence he had come that morning. It is understood that he was about dispossessing two persons of a farm, which was to be given to another."
There was another case of the same nature in the county of Clare:—
"The deceased man's father had taken land at Dogneire, from which James Sexton had been previously ejected. Deceased was returning home from that place, when he was shot in the face from behind a hedge, his assailant following up the attack by inflicting severe wounds on the back of the head with some sharp instrument."
Then there is a most frightful case of a gentleman, Mr. Patrick Clarke, being shot on his own premises, at noonday, on the 31st of October last:—
"This gentleman was shot dead by two men while riding round his own demesne, superintending his workmen. It appears that Mr. Clarke, several years ago, had purchased the estate in question, but had never, until recently, resided there. Having been induced to visit the place, and to prolong his stay, he had discovered that, in
344
his absence, he had been subject to a system of fraud on the part of his tenantry, which he had determined to check and put down. No sooner was this intention discovered, than attempts were made, by threatening letters (the receipt of which he kept a profound secret), to get him to remove from the place, to which intimidation he did not not yield, persevering in his system of enforcing the payment of old arrears by his tenantry. In connexion with the cause of the murder, endeavours are made, in some quarters, to represent the deceased as a rigorous landlord, of hasty and tyrannical disposition; but these statements are not borne out."
This brings me to make some remarks upon absenteeism. I agree with those who hold that absenteeism is a great evil; but to discourage absenteeism we must render the counties of which I have spoken habitable. Are they habitable under circumstances such as these I describe? Here is a gentleman who had not been resident since the purchase of his estate several years ago; he comes down to settle upon it; he commences improving his estate; he expends money, and calls forth labour; he rides out from his house to superintend his men; and, as has been seen, is shot at in noon-day and killed. It appeared that he had been subjected to some fraud on the part of his tenants; he was determined to punish it; his intention was no sooner known, than attempts were made by means of threatening letters, the receipt of which he kept a profound secret, to induce him to leave the place; he resisted, and it is therefore shown that the system of enforcing the payment of arrears from tenants is met with the crime of murder. Another case was that in the county of Limerick, in January, 1846, of James Lynch:—
"He had served ejectments on a number of small tenants on his farm. He was fired at, at about noon, within fifty yards of his residence, had survived the shot but a few minutes. It appears that no person can be found who witnessed the attack; but there is circumstantial evidence against a man named Coshean, who has absconded. Lynch was a middleman, and his own was the life in the lease under which he held."
Then there is this case:—
"I have to report that on last night, the 6th instant, about the hour of half-past seven o'clock, a party of seven men, disguised, with their faces blackened, and handkerchiefs tied round them, and three of them armed with guns, and others with bludgeons, entered the houses of Owen Meany, Bridget Meany, and James Molowny, of Cragboy, in the district of Tulla, and beat the following persons very severely: — Owen Meany, James Molowny, Michael Meany, and Thomas Meany; the latter had his skull fractured, and died in two or three hours afterwards; the others received cuts and bruises on their heads

345
and bodies; two female inmates of the houses were also struck, but not seriously hurt. On going away they fired two shots, and then proceeded to the house of Michael Hogan, of Shanakill, in this district, and beat him and his two sons, but not seriously. The deceased is son of Bridget Meany, and bore an excellent character. An inquest was this day held, at which I attended with Captain Leyne, and it has been adjourned to Monday next, the 9th instant. The reason assigned for these outrages is, that in the year 1843 the lands of Cragboy and Shanakill were divided by the agent under the Court of Chancery, on which occasion there were three under-tenants on the division which fell to the lot of Bridget Meany (mother of the deceased), James Molowny, and Michael Hogan; one of these under-tenants was deprived of the land he then held, and the other two, it is alleged, are now about to be dispossessed; there is no doubt, therefore, but that they caused the outrages to be committed."
This is another case:—
"I have to report that, on the night of the 20th instant, about half-past 6 P.M., at Cally, in the parish of Killmarathy, as Mr. Alfred Waller was returning to his residence, and alone, he was waylaid in a field by four men, who severely assaulted him on the head and arms with bludgeons and stones, inflicting two severe cuts on his head, and dreadful contusions on the left arm, which fractured one of the bones below the elbow. A few (3½) acres of land Mr. Waller had at his disposal were the cause, inasmuch as his assailants, while beating him, desired him to 'give up Coona, give up Coona' (the name of the little townland which persons of the name of Keeffe pretended to have a claim to). Mr. Waller's life is not considered in any imminent danger."
From this it is seen that neither religion nor relationship none of the ordinary feelings of social life, appear to have had the slightest effect in these cases; it is seen that these crimes are committed promiscuously, both by day and by night. I have gone through this class of cases, illustrative of the interference between landlord and tenant with respect to the occupation of land. A notice of ejectment is followed by the summary infliction of death; the execution of a decree of the Court of Chancery in reference to a similar Act has the same consequence. I must now call attention to another class of cases, those of magistrates when executing their magisterial duty. I will first direct notice to the case of Mr. M'Leod, a magistrate in the county of Leitrim, in November, 1844:—
"Towards the close of November, 1844, the peace of the northern part of the county of Cavan, and the adjoining parts of Leitrim, had become very seriously disturbed by numerous armed and organized bodies of Whiteboys. To meet these circumstances, the magistracy applied for an increased police force, and an additional stipendiary magistrate. The required police were immediately supplied; and Mr. M'Leod, the resident magis-
346
trate stationed at Enniskillen, was selected by the Government, and temporarily placed at Ballinamore, in aid of the local authorities in the suppression of the illegal organization referred to. On the day above stated, Mr. M'Leod had been dining with Mr. W. Percy, justice of the peace, of Garadice, and had set out in the evening on his return to his own quarters. Finding Mr. Percy's lodge gate shut (contrary to practice when company is entertained), Mr. M'Leod was in the act of desiring the driver of his car to get it opened, when he was fired at from behind an opening in the evergreen at the lodge gate, where the assassin, aided by the light of a candle left (as if designedly) in the lodge, is believed to have deliberately taken his aim. The gunshot penetrated the heart and lungs, and caused instantaneous death. There is no doubt that a conspiracy had been formed; and it is an ascertained fact that a notice of the murder was posted at Enniskillen two days before its perpetration. That this outrage is referable to feelings of revenge prompted by Mr. M'Leod's discharge of his magisterial duty, but one opinion has been expressed; two circumstances, have, however, been mentioned as its immediate exciting cause; by some it is attributed to his having refused to bail certain individuals in custody on serious offences; by others, to a decision made by Mr. M'Leod some days previously at Bawnboy Petty Sessions."
Another part of this case presents a circumstance most remarkable, and of fearful import. There is no doubt that a conspiracy had been formed, and it was ascertained that notice of the intended murder had been posted up in the town of Enniskillen. The preparations were as notorious in the neighbourhood as they were a secret to the victim; and there is no doubt that the whole neighbourhood were participators in this crime. In the case of Mr. Bell Booth, justice of the peace, I am bound to say, that it did not occur in one of the five counties to which I have referred; it was in the county of Cavan, though on the borders of Leitrim. Here is the report:—
"As George Bell Booth, Esq., justice of the peace, was returning from divine service in his gig, with two of his children, some person unknown shot him dead. Although the above awful circumstance took place within 200 yards of the village of Crossdoney, and many persons were passing along the road from their respective places of worship, yet there was no immediate attempt made on their part to secure the assassin, who effected his escape. The police from the surrounding stations made every exertion to discover the perpetrator, but without success. Mr. Booth was an efficient and most useful magistrate, and always ready to afford assistance when necessary. From that hour to this the assassin has escaped punishment."
No more erroneous impression could be formed, than to conclude that these crimes arose from any one particular cause, either political or religious. Those who commit

347
such offences, interfere in every way with the letting of land, with the ordinary circumstances of domestic life, between master and tenant; constantly threatening notices are sent by the peasantry to particular individuals that they must increase the dowry of a daughter, that they must sanction or must not sanction the marriage of a son; and unless such notices are immediately obeyed, summary vengeance is executed. Here is a case of interference between master and tenant:—
"Waters, John (county of Tipperary), had been in the employment of Henry Goring, Esq., of Riverlawn, and was a stranger at the place. As he was returning to his master's residence, with a man named Corrigan (whose services as ploughman were likely to be superseded by those of Waters), several men, armed with bludgeons, according to the statement of Corrigan, leaped off the road into the grove. Corrigan says he ran away, and looking back saw the party strike Waters to the ground, and that on returning shortly after, he found Waters speechless."
So that the crime of this man was the endeavour to replace a servant. Then there is the case of Thomas Linney, East Galway, who was shot through the lungs. He had recently been engaged as a steward by the Rev. Mr. Butson, of Clonfert, who had discharged his former steward (named Coates), retaining, however, in his service two of Coates's brothers, a coachman, and stable-keeper. To these and to their father, old Coates, who lived in the neighbourhood, and to another stableboy suspicion attached, and they were apprehended. Several threatening letters had been previously sent to Mr. Butson, desiring him to discharge Linney. I should not refer to a case which the noble Lord the Member for King's Lynn has brought under the notice of the House, except that unhappily it was accompanied by very gross circumstances. In that case, a married woman, pregnant, who was on the road, was shot at in the open day. A child she had with her at her breast was killed, and the mother was also killed. I will mention the circumstances of the outrage, and the cause to the House.
"Mrs. Fanny M'Elhill, of Tyrone, was the wife of a wood-ranger, who had made himself obnoxious by prosecuting trespassers. She had proceeded from her dwelling, with her little daughter, when she was fired at from a wood by the roadside. Some of the charge entered the child's head, and it is feared her brain is injured. The mother was wounded in different parts of the body, and died in a day or two after, having previously given birth to a still-born child."
I should not have mentioned this case unless it had been mentioned by the noble
348
Lord, as it was not in one of the five counties, but that of Tyrone. [Colonel RAWDON: Was the crime committed in the day time?] Yes, in the day time. In South Tipperary, on the 17th of January, 1846, Patrick Murphy was fired at as he entered his own dwelling one of three men. He had been employed as keeper on property seized for rent. Again, the noble Lord the Member for Lynn has referred to another case, which is in the county of Tipperary, and it is remarkable, as it shows that these acts of violence are connected with gross interference with domestic arrangements, such as the keeping of servants. In that case, at the dwelling of an old lady, eighty years of age, arms were taken away; she was beaten, and a pistol twice snapped in her face in the road. The case occurred in December, 1845. Now, I beg the House to consider the state of society in Ireland consequent upon these outrages. I will read a notice issued by a mining company from Dublin, dated November 26, 1845, relative to the state of things at Earls-hill colliery, barony of Slievardagh, in Tipperary; it is signed by Mr. R. Purday, the secretary, and it shows the social effects of these proceedings. The notice is to this effect:—
"Earls-hill Colliery, Barony of Slievardagh, County of Tipperary.
"The board of directors of the Mining Company of Ireland hereby gives notice to all whom it may concern, that the company's works, at Earlshill Colliery, will be suspended on Saturday, the 20th of December next, or the earliest day admissible under existing contracts. The board has been reluctantly impelled to adopt this course by the outrages and threats to which the company's stewards Martin Morris and others, have been subjected with impunity, notwithstanding large rewards offered for information which might lead to the punishment of the offenders, and by the threatening notices subsequently served on those well-disposed workmen who are desirous to work under the company and earn support for themselves and families, but whose lives are too highly valued by the board to be risked by the continuance of the works until sufficient protection can be afforded to them. "RICHARD PURDY, Secretary.
"Dublin, Nov. 26, 1845."
Now this case shows not only the impossibility of providing an effectual remedy for the social evils of Ireland by the influx of capital—for the best remedy for the poverty of Ireland is the introduction of capital—but it proves that unless you put down this state of things, not only will there be no influx of capital into the country, but the social evils of Ireland will be aggravated by the spread of murder and rapine. I do

349
not apologize to the House for detaining it by the cases I have brought forward, because I do think the circumstances are so grave as to justify me in bringing before the House fully, and without reserve, the state of crime now prevailing in these parts of Ireland, showing that legislative interterference is indispensable if human life is to be regarded as of any value. Here is a case of murder, expressly for preventing the voluntary resignation of land. It is in the county of Tipperary, 27th January, 1845:—
"John Ryan (county of Tipperary), a farmer, was about to propose for land, the property of Mr. Philips, of Mount Rivers. There had, in this case, been no compulsory ejectment, or rigorous exaction of rights. The occupier, it is said, voluntarily resigned one-half of the farm, alleging his inability to hold the entire, and continued to retain the other half. The deceased, represented to be of respectable character, of some substance, and a native of the place, made no secret of his intention to propose for the unoccupied land, and had no apprehension of consequences. On his way, however, to the proprietor, he was assailed by two men, strangers to himself, one of whom pulled him from his horse and fractured his head with a stone. He survived only a few days. Two persons were taken into custody on strong suspicion; but the injured man, evidently fearing the consequences to his family, would make no disclosures tending to their identification."
So that, at the last extremity of death, such is the effect of the reign of terror, the dying man, out of regard for the safety of his relatives and friends, aware that his end was close at hand, dared not make disclosures tending to identify the parties, lest he should compromise the safety of his relatives in this region, when savage vengeance is triumphant. The two men, who had been taken into custody on suspicion, were discharged for want of evidence, the dying man refusing to give any explanation. Now, it is clear how little human life is valued in some particular parts of Ireland. I have heard it said, that, in the five counties, the great body of the people are tainted—I do not believe it: the bands are small, though perfectly organized; but the number of persons comprising these lawless bands is insignificant compared with the great body of the people. But, still, evidence cannot be obtained, and the law is, by reason of this, inoperative; and if these small bands prevent the due exercise of the law, these outrages remaining unchecked, the bulk of the population will yield to terror, and become unwilling accessories to crime. Here is a case in Galway, not one of the five counties:—
350
"Patrick Swift was found dead in the river of the town of Galway; there were several marks of violence about his body and head. He had come to the town to give evidence in a civil bill case, which was dismissed in his (Swift's) absence. Some threatening expressions were used towards him by some of the relatives of the defendant who were chiefly interested in the case."
No doubt that man was murdered to prevent his evidence being taken, and the cause was lost. Observe: no debt for more than 20 l. can be recovered by civil bill process: so to secure success in an action for debt of less than 20 l., an innocent witness is deliberately murdered. Now, here is another case in Tipperary, 26th June:—
"John Lundrigan.—Twelve months ago a man was murdered on the mountains off Ninemile House, near Carrick-on-Suir, and the friends of the murdered man prosecuted. A woman related to the prosecutors was married to a publican named Egan, who owned a tent erected on the racecourse of Ballina. On the evening of the 26th of June, a party of twelve or fifteen men entered the tent and grievously assaulted Egan and his servant Lundrigan with stones. On the following day the matter came to the knowledge of the police, who proceeded to the tent, and found Egan pursuing his usual avocations, complaining but little of his injuries, unwilling to afford any information upon the subject, and totally denying any knowledge of the assailants. At that time, and for a day or two after, Egan suppressed all reference to the case of Lundrigan; and it was not until the latter was speechless, and past recovery, that Egan apprised the police of his condition. Lundrigan died that day, and Egan became so ill that his recovery for a while was doubtful. Although several persons confidently believed to have been concerned in this outrage were arrested, the witnesses at the inquest were evidently determined on screening the perpetrators, and the prisoners were necessarily discharged for want of evidence."
I will take another case in Tipperary (a remarkable case), showing the striking manner in which every member of a family was attacked, and their unwillingness to give evidence to convict:—
"Nenagh, Feb. 9, 1846.
"Between seven and eight o'clock on yesterday morning, a party of twelve men, all armed with guns, made a simultaneous rush into the dwelling of Michael Gleeson, who was in bed, as was all his family, with the exception of his daughter Judy, who had opened the door; the armed men dragged Gleeson out of bed, and beat him about the body and head with the butt end of their guns, inflicting two wounds (seemingly dangerous) on his head. Gleeson's son, who slept in an opposite room, hearing the uproar, got out of bed, and was immediately attacked in his attempt to oppose his assailants' ingress to his apartment; one of the villains fired a shot at him which missed him, the two balls striking the wall in his rear. After a struggle they forced into his room, and treated him in a similar way to that of his father, inflicting three severe cuts on his head. After breaking twelve panes of glass and all the delph in the

351
house, and ordering Gleeson to give up the land (9½ acres) to Seymour, or they would pay him another and a more serious visit, they went away. Gleeson came into possession of his land twenty years ago, and out of which Seymour was dispossessed for non-payment of rent. Though there were five of Gleeson's sons in the house, not one of them informed the police of this occurrence. Had they done so, there is little doubt but that the Corbally party would have succeeded in tracing the offenders, as they were seen to pass up the mountains within less than a mile of that barrack (Corbally). Nor would they even describe to me any of this gang, although Gleeson's daughter and one of his sons, from the opportunities they had, could, I am convinced, do so; however, such is the system of terror prevalent in this district, my belief is, that had this gang murdered old Gleeson, not one of his family would come forward to vindicate the law, unless forced to do so. I directed the constable at Corbally to bring into Nenagh on to-morrow the son and daughter of Gleeson, and should their evidence be of any importance I will report accordingly. The resident magistrate approves of the suggested reward (50 l.)
"CHARLES G. O'DELL, Chief Constable."
Now, observe this; though there were live sons in the house, not one of them informed the police of the occurrence. Had they done so, there is little doubt that the Corbally party would have succeeded in tracing the offenders, as they were seen to pass up the mountains within less than a mile of that barrack; nor would they even describe any of the gang. I will not trespass on the time of the house by detailing many more particular cases; still there are two or three which give so faithful an impression of the condition of more than one of these five counties, that I must be permitted to read these few extracts to the House. Here is another case from Tipperary:—
"I have to report that constable Patrick O'Hara, and sub-constables John Franklin, James Burke, John Young, John Mulrooney, and Anthony Cullen, of the Clonlough station, were on patrol in the neighbourhood of Ballinahinch, about 7 P.M. last night, when they were fired on by a party of Rockites, about eight in number, who no doubt lay in wait for them; the police (four of whom had loaded arms) returned the fire, but cannot say with what degree of effect. The Rockites' fire, I am sorry to say, told on sub-constable Cullen; he is severely wounded in both arms; the ball, which passed through the left and lodged in the right arm near the elbow (but not in the joint), has been extracted by Dr. Carey, of this town, who was immediately in attendance. The police took but one prisoner, and one stand of arms (a pistol). The prisoner is a young man, about eighteen years old, a servant boy of a farmer. The police detected him giving the signal to the Rockites to rush from their hiding place, near a house where the constable O'Hara states he called to receive some information about unregistered arms, and a party whom they met on patrol the Friday before, and whom they suspected to have been firing shots and disturbing that neighbourhood, but found no arms with them.
352
One fellow on this occasion, on being searched by the police, attempted to wrest the carbine from sub-constable Young, and him they have summoned for obstructing them in the discharge of their duty, by order of the magistrates."
In this case it is shown that a party of armed men were lying in wait for the police at 7 o'clock in the evening, and actually commenced the assault by firing a volley upon them. Here is another case, reported by Mr. Graves, a stipendiary magistrate:—
"Dances are held constantly in the several townlands. This is done solely to give a tangible excuse for the gathering together of a number of persons. I have had those dance houses most carefully watched by the police, and I find there is no drunkenness, no rioting; everything is conducted peaceably, but during the time dancing is going on inside the houses numbers of men are congregated outside; I am quite sure with no good intent."
This report shows that even the most innocent amusements may be perverted in the disturbed districts into opportunities of planning the perpetration of crimes. I have another report, received only the day before yesterday, from the county of Clare; it is dated March 24, and contains a notice of a description corroborating what I have already stated in reference to those crimes; a gentleman named Floyd was suspected of having given information that led to the apprehension of four men, who at the last Clare assizes were convicted and sentenced to transportation; he was not a witness in the case; he was only suspected of having given the information that led to the apprehension of the men; and the report contains a notice in which he is threatened with death unless before a certain day he obtained a pardon for the convicts. I have but one more case I wish to bring under the notice of the House; but it shows such an amount of interference with mere matters of domestic arrangement, that I wish to draw the attention of the House to it; it shows the spread of tyranny and open violence, and a breaking down of all the rules of social intercourse, that is more alarming than anything I have read. It is a case tried at the last Clare assizes:—
"At the last assizes for the county of Clare three persons were tried for a murderous assault on a person named Hehin. The circumstances of the case were these. Hehin was steward of the steam packet carrying passengers on the Upper Shannon. He was in the habit of purchasing milk from a woman for the use of the passengers in the steamer. He complained to her that the milk was not good, and that he wished for better milk for the use of the gentlemen going to the last fair at Ballinasloe, who were to breakfast on

353
board the steamer. She promised to give better milk, but did not do so, and Hehin ceased to deal with her; and she said he should be sorry for it. Accordingly in a few days after, on the arrival of the steamer at Killaloe, Hehin was watched, and when the passengers had left the steamer, and Hehin landed alone on the quay, he was stopped by three persons, who ordered him to kneel down, asked him about the milk, immediately attacked him, fractured his skull in several parts, and left him for dead."
In this case the parties were convicted. I have adduced this case to show the small value put upon human life, and the summary vengeance that is taken for the most ordinary actions, and on the slightest provocation. I have already in the course of the evening presented to the House a petition, signed by the high sheriff and the majority of the grand jury of Leitrim, praying the House to pass into a law the Bill introduced for the suppression of crimes of this kind. I now wish very shortly to refer the House to memorials presented to the Lord Lieutenant from the whole of these five counties, praying for the enactment of some summary process of punishment for this class of crimes. The address from Tipperary, presented by the Earl of Donoughmore on the 25th of March says:—
"We feel convinced that all sources of information are dried up through the sympathy of the ill-affected, and the intimidation exercised towards the well-disposed. We do not dwell on the numerical amount of crimes committed, because it is to their character that we wish to point attention; ejectment from land is no longer the sole origin of these sad occurrences. The slightest cause is now sufficient to endanger life, and no one can tell when that may arise. We do not urge the insecurity of landlords' rights; we do not complain of want of support being afforded to ourselves by your Excellency's Government; but we point attention to the insecurity of the peasant's hut, to the scenes of desolation there constantly occuring, to the prevalence of that species of crime which saps the root of every virtue, and is rapidly eradicating all trace of the original character of the Irish peasant."
I have also the address presented by the grand jury of Roscommon, signed by one of the Members for that county, the O'Conor Don, setting forth the disturbed state of the county, and praying the Legislature to provide means of protection. I will not weary the House with these addresses; there is also one from the county of Leitrim; but two or three of the resolutions adopted by the magistrates and gentry of the county of Limerick I will read: they state—
"That murder, breaking open houses for arms, threatening notices, and intimidation, are of daily and nightly occurrence, attacking all classes who do not join or submit to laws made at nightly
354
meetings of large bands of armed peasantry; that the laws at present in force are not sufficient, in the disorganized state of this county, to repress the outrages that are taking place."
There is also one from the county of Clare, presented by Sir Lucius O'Brien on the 1st of March, 1846, praying for an increase in the constabulary force, on account of the dangerous state of that county. Now, having shown, perhaps at too much length, the unhappy condition of these five counties, with reference to crime, I will briefly state the heads of the Bill sent down from the other House of Parliament, for the purpose of aiding the Government in the repression of these fearful outrages. I shall not conceive it to be my duty in the present discussion to enter upon the general policy of the measure; but when that policy shall come to be reviewed, I shall be prepared at length to defend the various provisions of the Bill. I shall at present merely state what those provisions are. In cases in which the prevalence of murder and crimes against the person shall appear to render it necessary, power is given to the Lord Lieutenant in Council to proclaim the district where such crimes shall have been committed, and then may appoint resident magistrates and additional constables for such proclaimed districts. The Lord Lieutenant in Council is also empowered to levy the charge for the salaries of such magistrates, and the expense of such additional constabulary, upon the occupiers of the district proclaimed. This part of the measure must be taken in conjunction with the announcement made by my right hon. Friend at the head of the Government, that it is intended to propose, under ordinary circumstances, to charge the whole expense of the constabulary upon the public fund. The effect, therefore, of the present Bill will be, to make the payment of this force in the proclaimed districts a penal payment by the tenantry. This principle is not new to the law either of England or of Ireland. Full power is given to the Lord Lieutenant not only to charge the expense of the additional constabulary upon the district, but also to levy a compensation to individuals sustaining injuries of a permanent character, and in cases of loss of life compensation to the surviving relatives. But neither in England nor Ireland is this principle of compensation for personal injuries, new. In cases of riot, and fire-raising, counties are liable for the damage. By the 6th and 7th William IV., power is now

355
given to grand juries in Ireland to levy any sum they may think fit for compensation for injury done to property, whether moveable or fixed, animate or inanimate; and the power is given to levy this charge not only on the whole county, but, in exact analogy to the principles of the present Bill, on any portion of that county they may think fit. By the 106th section of the same Act, chap. 116, grand juries have the power of presenting any sum they may think proper as compensation to the personal representatives of those who, having to give evidence against offenders, may be murdered previous to the trial, the amount to be levied on the barony where the murder takes place. The principle of the measure is then, in this respect, not new to the law of this Realm. It has been said, that this Bill gives to the Lord Lieutenant the same powers which he enjoyed under the General Constabulary Act. It certainly does give the Lord Lieutenant power to increase the salaries of persons employed in the preservation of the peace; and it also gives the Lord Lieutenant unlimited power to appoint stipendiary magistrates, with such salaries as to him may seem fitting and expedient. Now, I propose by this Bill that the Treasury shall pay those salaries in the first instance, and that the counties shall refund. The Lord Lieutenant shall have power to fix the salaries; his certificate shall be binding upon the grand juries, and they shall be bound to levy sufficient for the payment of those salaries. This, I need scarcely observe to the House, is a principle fully recognized by the existing law. Further, there is by this Bill power given to the Lord Lieutenant to cause the apprehension of persons found out of their dwellings between sunset and sunrise; but they shall be tried by a jury and before a Judge of assize. After apprehension and before trial, the Lord Lieutenant shall possess the power of liberating persons so accused, and he shall also possess the same power of liberation after they have been found guilty. I may here state, that I do not rest these provisions upon former precedents alone; and yet what occurred in other cases is not wholly unworthy of your attention. Nothing would be easier than to show that several of the former Bills introduced with this object, really did bring about the effects expected from them without its ever becoming necessary to carry out into full operation all the provisions of those Bills. In 1834 there was a Coercion
356
Bill, but no court-martial ever sat under the provisions of that measure; for the mere fact that such provisions had received the sanction of Parliament, sufficed to render the application of them wholly unnecessary. Now, this is a matter to which I wish particularly to call the attention of the hon. and learned Member for Cork. He cannot, of course, have forgotten that, in the year 1835, he took part in the discussions on the Coercion Bill of that period; and I should desire to quote his exact words. They were spoken on the 31st of July, 1835, and are as follows:—
"In the present Bill, if I rightly understand it, much of the mischievous tendency of the Coercion Bill is avoided. It directs the magistrates at sessions to deal with actual offences against the laws as they find them, and it also authorizes them to give to a man an opportunity of explaining why he is found abroad at night, and unless he can give a satisfactory explanation, he is subjected to the penalty of a misdemeanor. This is a great improvement upon the former measure; and I am glad to find that the Government is content with it. It gives protection where it is wanted, but at the same time takes from no man the right of being tried by a jury. Its only infringement upon the liberty of the subject is in the power given, as I have already observed, to deal with persons who are found out of their houses by night, and who can give no satisfactory explanation of their being from home. If the Bill shall have the effect of suppressing the baneful practice of nightly outrages, it will be most salutary for Ireland, and one of the greatest benefits that can be conferred upon her in her present state. My only wish with respect to it is, that it had gone a little further, and had endeavoured to put down those affiliated societies which flourish in Ireland in spite of the law, but which, I contend, it is the duty of the Government to suppress."
The onus of proof, the hon. and learned Gentleman justly observed, rested upon the party accused; and I am now glad to be able to call the attention of the House to this, that we have the sanction of his legal authority, supported by the intimate knowledge which the hon. and learned Member for Cork possesses of his countrymen, to show that, with reference to proclaimed districts, this measure is the best that under such circumstances can be adopted. The House will see from the extracts which I have read, that the hon. and learned Gentleman did approve of prohibiting the population of disturbed districts going at large between sunset and sunrise, without being able to account for their doing so. I am very unwilling to trespass at greater length upon the indulgence of the House; but I cannot help adverting to some other of the various circumstances which have the effect of driving landlords away from

357
Ireland; of compelling them to reside elsewhere; and of causing them to cease employing those labourers to whom, under a different state of things, they would have given full employment. I shall at present mention but one case, which is contained in the evidence published in the second volume of Lord Devon's Report, page 751. It is the case of a Mr. Wilson, a Roman Catholic gentleman residing in the county of Clare. He then resided upon his own property; he constantly resided on it, performing all the duties which as a landlord he was bound to perform. In the course of the last autumn and winter he received three distinct threatening notices. It appears that he had recently let a quantity of land amounting to 140 acres which had fallen out of lease. He divided this land amongst different tenants; but he took the liberty of reserving four acres for the use of an old servant of his, whom he wished to reside upon the land. In the course of the last six months he received, as I have said, three threatening notices; and he was, therefore, compelled to quit the neighbourhood. When he was present at divine worship, for the last time, in the chapel which he usually attended, he, with the permission of the parish priest, ascended the steps of the altar, and, addressing the congregation, said that there were then present the men who sat in judgment upon him, and who passed sentence of death upon him. He repeated that he knew them as well as the time and place at which they decided the question of life and death as affecting him, and pronounced such a sentence as compelled him to quit the country and change his residence. But he declared, that if they would form a committee among themselves, he would submit the matter to such committee, and abide by their decision. There was no concealment in this case; Mr. Wilson openly avowed that it was in consequence of the threatening letters he had received he was compelled, with his wife and family, to relinquish his home. Mr. Carrick, as a friend of the hon. and learned Member, took part in a transaction which I am sure the hon. and learned Member will not forget. I allude to the Clare election, a memorable epoch in the life of the hon. Member. [Mr. O'CONNELL: He voted for me.] He voted for the hon. and learned Member. That gentleman was barbarously murdered. Since Mr. Wilson left the county Mr. Carrick has been shot. I am just about to read a letter from a gentleman who, if I
358
am not misinformed, is connected with the hon. and learned Member for Cork; Mr. Laing is a nephew of the hon. and learned Gentleman, a Roman Catholic, and a most respectable gentleman. He says—
"In reference to my report of the 18th instant, I have now, with much regret, to state that Mr. Carrick died of his wounds this morning. The awful death of this unfortunate gentleman has spread the utmost alarm and consternation among the respectable classes throughout this county, who are looking forward with deep anxiety to the passing of the Coercion Bill, in the hope that it may be the means of putting a stop to that dreadful and appalling system of assassination so perseveringly carried into effect. No man's life is safe; and unless the most stringent and comprehensive laws are immediately enacted for the protection of life and property, the possession neither of the one nor of the other can be considered secure."
There is one other document, which it is my duty to lay before the House. It contains an appeal made to the hon. and learned Member for Cork himself, by Mr. Ryan, a Roman Catholic, and a gentleman who is on such a footing with the hon. and learned Gentleman, that his letter begins "Dear Sir," and ends, "Your ever faithful friend." [Mr. O'CONNELL: He is unknown.] His letter is quite worthy of being read:—
"As you value the peace of Ireland, I most earnestly entreat of you to give up your opposition to the principle of the Bill about to be introduced into the House of Commons for the protection of life. It may have some trivial defects, most of which have been modified in the House of Lords; but the well-thinking portion of society of all parties agree that something must be done to suppress crime in this country. It is melancholy to behold whole Sessions of Parliament wasted away in idle debate on measures which turn out to be of no importance, or no benefit to the people."
My noble Friend the Member for Lynn must understand that this applies to the last Session of Parliament.
"The Landlord and Tenant Bill, which has been loudly called for by nine-tenths of the people of Ireland, has been overlooked or forgotten, and seven months of a Sesssion of Parliament spent in opposition to an Arms Bill, which proved to be the very reverse of what was anticipated. The Liberal party in the House argued, that it would destroy the constitutional liberty of the subject; that, if passed into a law, the police would search for arms at all hours; that the privacy of families would be invaded; and that even at night we should be subject to the insults of this ruthless body. Well, the Arms Act has now been some time in force, and there is not one instance to be found where the police abused the power with which they were invested. The police are an efficient, well-regulated force, under excellent control; and you may rest satisfied that if they and the higher portion of the Executive had no more honourable motive to guide them in the discharge of their duty than your own influence and that of the press, it would be quite

359
sufficient to insure a fair administration of the 'Coercion Act,' as you call it. This one fact does away with one of the principal arguments against this Bill. When we see a Government doing all in its power to alleviate the distress of the people; when we see them scorning the ties of friendship and of party to establish a law that will afford the most extensive benefits, by giving cheap food and cheap clothing to the millions; when we see them promising an extended Franchise Bill, a Corporation Bill, and, the most important of all, 'a Landlord and Tenant Bill,' let us not, in the name of common sense, delay, or perhaps altogether postpone, those good measures by a protracted opposition to a stringent Bill, which the state of society absolutely requires. Had the Arms Bill been less opposed and more stringent, the necessity for the Coercion Bill would now be less urgent. Instead of arms being taken from those who were entitled to them, they were indiscriminately put into the hands of evil-minded persons. Thus a facility was given to the disaffected to commit crimes, while the power of detecting or suppressing them was diminished. Armed persons may now go about night and day, and unless the police catch them in the actual fact of committing outrage, no notice can be taken of them. Under the Protection Bill there might be some hope of punishing those lawless villains, who, in reality, abridge the liberty of the subject, by forcing the peaceable and well-conducted members of society to remain in their houses from sunset to sunrise, ay, and sometimes during broad daylight, lest they might be assassinated by these demons."
I have pointed out to the House that the state of society in these five counties, is such that it is not safe to go abroad either by night or by day. The hon. Member for Limerick (Mr. Smith O'Brien) doubts that statement. But look at Sir Francis Hopkins, attacked when on his return from dining with a neighbour. Look at Mr. Booth Bell, shot when returning from church. The state of society is unquestionably such, that the ordinary liberty of private life is not enjoyed. Mr. Ryan proceeds:—
"Thank God, the number of delinquents are few. Some dozens of the entire population may be brought to justice under this Act, while eight millions will be benefited by it. The expense will be a mere trifle; we now pay 4s. per acre taxes, a sixth of which only goes to public works, while five-sixths of it are expended in supporting gaols and suppressing crime. The greater part of this burden is to be removed, and a sum of 3d. or 4d. per acre may be called for, but this only in disturbed districts. The only objection to this tax is, that the landlord is not made to pay his share according to his proportion of poor-rates. This, most assuredly should be the case; and I am sure you will insist on his paying a fair portion of it. This point conceded to it, I beg of you to facilitate the passing of this Act. I am not a tyrant landlord who asks you to do so. I am a friend to popular rights, and so far back as 1828, when you called me to the chair of the Catholic Association, to the present time, I have been one of your humble but strenuous supporters."
360
I thought the hon. and learned Member for Cork said this Gentleman was unknown; he described himself as a friend of popular rights, and as having been a supporter of the hon. and learned Gentleman.
"I have given more employment than any man of similar means in Ireland. I never did anything in my life that would call forth the odium of the lawless, or the revenge of the assassin, unless that I assisted in endeavouring to bring the murderers of Mr. Milo Bourke, late of Springfield, and Mr. Andrew Bourke, late of Greenlawn, to justice. These two inoffensive gentlemen were murdered for no other reason but because their lives were in leases of land. They were brothers and uncles of mine. I lost 300 l. a year by the murder of Mr. Milo Bourke; and Mr. Bourke, of the Shelburne Hotel, to whom the property of his brother Milo reverted, had been obliged to sell it for one-tenth of its value, because he did not like coming to this country to receive his rents. Since that period there have been ten malicious injuries done to my property, and two attempts made on my life.
"I shall not trouble you with a detailed account of all, but merely state what occurred on the 7th of March instant. About 11 o'clock on the night of that day, while my wife, one child, and myself were in my parlour, nine bullets from a blunderbuss were discharged into the window; three bullets were lodged in the shutters, and one struck the fender around which we were sitting; the other five bullets hit the wall outside. All my family, consisting of ten children and five servants, were in the same room, at night prayers, a few minutes before the shot was fired, so that the assassin did not care whether he killed one person or seventeen. Had the 'Protection Act' been in force, the perpetrator of this horrible outrage could have been most easily detected."
I cannot conclude my observations, which I have prolonged to a great extent, better than by adopting the words used by this Gentleman: "As you love Ireland—as you hate injustice—as you abhor outrage and crime—I entreat, I implore you," not to oppose the progress of this Bill. Taking into consideration the further discussions which may arise relative to the state of affairs which I have described: bearing in mind that these fearful outrages do not yet extend to the whole or to a large part of Ireland; but, though limited to five counties, that there is a marked and dangerous tendency in them to spread. I call on you not to hesitate in the adoption of the means which are necessary to arrest the progress of this evil. I do not blame you reluctance: but this measure is necessary; and in the present circumstances of Ireland I entreat you not to delay the first reading of this Bill.
MR. DILLON BROWNEmoved that the debate be adjourned.
MR. O'CONNELLseconded the Motion.
MR. SMITH O'BRIENrose, amid loud cries of "go on," and observed that it was not the intention of the Irish Members to oppose this Bill by means of repeated adjournments: on the contrary, they were desirous that the amplest discussion should take place; aad if opportunity for such discussion were afforded, they doubted not but that they would be able to show that many of the evils of which the Government complained so bitterly were to be attributed to the misrule and neglect of the Government themselves. But he supported the Motion for the adjournment on the present occasion, because it was now within half an hour of twelve o'clock; and as the hon. and learned Member for Cork, who had an Amendment on the books, would probably occupy two hours, if not more, with his address, he thought it was scarcely reasonable to ask his hon. and learned Friend to proceed at that unseasonable hour of the night.
MR. O'CONNELLwas ready to go on, but he was very unwilling to do so, if it could be avoided, at that late hour; for the case he had to deal with was a very heavy and a very important one, and he must consume a very considerable period in addressing the House. He trusted that there was a tendency to conduct this measure in an amicable manner; and, if so, he implored them not to press them (the Irish Members) unnecessarily at that late hour to a statement which might be a lengthened one. They had already been sitting seven hours.
SIR ROBERT PEELhoped that the House would not think of adjourning at that early hour. It would be quite without precedent that, with such a mass of business before them as yet undisposed of, they should adjourn at half-past eleven o'clock. They had already reduced the nights for debating to four, for they did not sit on Saturdays; and Wednesdays they had, by a recent resolution, determined on devoting to Bills and propositions introduced by private Members. He ventured to promise that, if the hon. and learned Member for Cork would proceed to address the House for two hours, or for an hour and a half, he would be listened to with great attention; but he hoped that the idea of adjourning at half-past eleven o'clock would be abandoned. After the Corn Bill had been disposed of, he would consent to affording every possible facility for discussion on this Bill in Committee,
362
or anywhere else; and, indeed, he was most anxious that both its principles and its details should be canvassed most carefully; but he could not understand what good object could be obtained by vexatious obstruction to the first reading. He hoped that, at all events, the House would not rise before one o'clock.
MR. CALEB POWELLremarked, that all the Irish Members wanted was, that they should be permitted full opportunity of submitting in detail to the consideration of the House the facts and representations which constituted their case.
LORD CLAUDE HAMILTONridiculed the idea of the Irish Members requiring an adjournment at that early hour. He thought it an exceedingly selfish proceeding, and which argued very little practical patriotism, that three Irish Members should stand up and insist upon the adjournment of the House, merely that they might retire to bed or elsewhere, to consult their own convenience. Surely, it could not be that their constitutions were worn out by their sedulous discharge of their Parliamentary duties; for many of them had not been soon for months in that House until that night. The hon. Member for Mayo, who had moved the adjournment, looked all freshness, and the very picture of health; and yet so anxious was he for the preservation of his senatorial health, that he would force the House to adjourn that he might have an opportunity of going to bed early.
MR. DILLON BROWNEsaid, that after the pointed allusion which had been made to him by the noble Lord opposite, he trusted the House would indulge him while he ventured to say a few words. The noble Lord had declared that he (Mr. Dillon Browne) should not, with his strong Irish feelings, entertain a desire to go to bed at that early hour. He (Mr. Browne) could not help thinking that it would have been well for the House, and for the noble Lord himself, if the noble Lord had gone to bed long ago. But, despite of the noble Lord's irrational gesticulations, and not-withanding that he was, upon the present occasion as offensive as it was his usual habit to be to Members of that House, he (Mr. Browne) would maintain his equanimity, and would endeavour to treat that House with respect, by pursuing a very opposite course to that pursued by the noble Lord. He would respectfully state to the House his reason for moving the adjournment. He did so, because he knew that his hon. and learned Friend the Member

363
for Cork (Mr. O'Connell), who had given notice of an Amendment—which must be prefaced by a long address—to the Motion under consideration, was not prepared at that late hour to address the House. He had also advocated the adjournment, because it was most essential that certain statements which had been made that night, affecting the character of the Irish people, should be effectively met; and this could only be done by granting some delay to obtain necessary information. Those were the circumstances under which he had moved the adjournment; and he could not think he had done wrong, even although he had incurred the wrath of the noble Lord.
MR. M. MILNESdid not wish that the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Cork should be put to any inconvenience. The mere circumstance of that hon. and learned Gentleman finding it necessary to address the House at some length, gave a peculiar character to the present Motion. But there were other hon. Members connected with Ireland who continued the debate, and who could express their views without so lengthened a preface. The House was quite ready to hear them. At the same time, as they had never been so long occupied in discussing the question of Adjournment, he thought the sooner they adjourned the better.
SIR R. PEELwould not further oppose the Motion for Adjournment, provided hon. Members who had Motions on the Paper for to-morrow were willing to postpone them. He must say that he consented most reluctantly to the adjournment, though he did not wish to subject the hon. and learned Gentleman to any inconvenience. If hon. Members would not consent to waive their Motions for to-morrow, then the only alternative would be in a further postponement of the debate, which he should strenuously oppose. He should feel it his duty to take the sense of the House on the Motion of adjournment, if hon. Members did not so consent.
MR. W. R. COLLETTwas entirely adverse to the postponement of the debate. He had most important documents in his possession, of the nature of which the House was not aware, and which made him most eager that no time should be lost in passing this measure into law. He was not in the habit of addressing the House, and never did so except when thoroughly acquainted with the subject, and able to substantiate his statements by undeniable
364
facts. On this matter, he repeated, he could adduce facts of which hon. Gentlemen were not aware, and which were certainly of a nature not to warrant the adjournment of the debate for four or five days. He considered this measure as vastly more important than the Corn Laws—it was a matter of indifference whether the Corn Laws were repealed or not, compared with this Bill. What was the fact? There was not a steward on his Irish property that had not been shot at—two of them were murdered—and whilst one of his men was giving evidence in a court of justice, he had received a letter to say that his wife and children had been shot at. No man's life was safe in that district. Society was at a standstill; no person—not even the parish priest—was safe. He could bring forward evidence to show that life was not safe, and that, in fact, the ordinary interchanges of society were at an end. Yet, notwithstanding such a state of things, some hon. Gentlemen opposite thought it right to obstruct the Bill. He would not yield to any such obstruction for a single moment; and would sooner sit there and divide continually, than submit to it. The country would, he had no doubt, form a correct estimate of the motives of the men who thought it becoming to give a vexatious opposition to the progress of the Bill.
LORD J. RUSSELLthought the right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had put the question upon very fair grounds. He thought, however, that if the debate were to be adjourned until to-morrow, it would be a hardship to call upon the hon. and learned Member for Cork to address the House. He hoped, however, that they would be able to proceed at once with the debate, and that hon. Gentlemen who had notices of Motions on the Paper would consent to postpone them.
The House divided on the Question, that the debate be adjourned:—Ayes, 32; Noes, 98: Majority, 66.

List of the AYES.

Archbold, R.

Macnamara, Major

Bridgeman, H.

M'Carthy, A.

Brotherton, J.

M'Donnell, J. M.

Chapman, B.

Milnes, R. M.

Collett, J.

Moffatt, G.

Curteis, H. B.

Napier, Sir C.

Esmonde, Sir T.

O'Brien, J.

Fitzgerald, R. A.

O'Brien, W. S.

Hawes, B.

O'Brien, T.

Hindley, C.

O'Connell, D.

Horsman, E.

O'Connell, J.

Kelly, J.

Osborne, R.

365

Power, J.

Wawn, J. T.

Rawdon, Col.

Wyse, T.

Somers, J. P.

Somerville, Sir W. M.

TELLERS.

Thornely, T.

Browne, R. D.

Warburton, H.

Powell, C.

List of the NOES.

Ainsworth, P.

Hotham, Lord

Antrobus, E.

Howard, hon. E. G. G.

Baillie, Col.

Inglis, Sir R. H.

Baillie, W.

James, Sir W. C.

Baird, W.

Jermyn, Earl

Bankes, G.

Jocelyn, Vise.

Baring, rt. hon. W. B.

Johnstone, H.

Bennet, P.

Jones, Capt.

Bentinck, Lord G.

Kemble, H.

Blackburne, J. I.

Labouchere, rt. hon. H.

Borthwick, P.

Lawson, A.

Bowles, Adml.

Lennox, Lord G. H. G.

Broadwood, K.

Lockhart, W.

Brownrigg, J. S.

Mackenzie, W. F.

Bruce, Lord E.

Maclean, D.

Buller, C.

M'Neill, D.

Cardwell, E.

March, Earl of

Carew, W. H. P.

Martin, C. W.

Carnegie, hon. Capt.

Meynell, Capt.

Chichester, Ld. J. L.

Morgan, O.

Clerk, hon. Sir. G.

Mostyn, hon. E. M. L.

Clive, rt. hon. R. H.

Neville, R.

Cole, hon. H. A.

Ncwdegate, C. N.

Collett, W. R.

Peel, rt. hon. Sir R.

Corry, rt. hon. H.

Peel, J.

Deedes, W.

Plumptre, J. P.

Denison, E. B.

Repton, G. W. J.

Dickinson, F. H.

Rolleston, Col.

Douglas, Sir C. E.

Russell, Lord J.

Entwisle, W.

Russell, C.

Escott, B.

Rutherfurd, A.

Flower, Sir J.

Sandon, Visct.

Floyer, J.

Scott, hon. F.

Forbes, W.

Shelburne, Earl of

Forster, M.

Somerset, Lord G.

Fox, S. L.

Stanton, W. H.

Frewen, C. H.

Staunton, Sir G. T.

Gladstone, Capt.

Stuart, Lord J.

Gooch, E. S.

Tower, C.

Gordon, hon. Capt.

Trench, Sir F. W.

Goulburn, rt. hon. H.

Walker, R.

Graham, rt. hon. Sir J.

Walpole, S. H.

Greene, T.

Wellesley, Lord C.

Grogan, E.

Wilde, Sir T.

Hamilton, Lord C.

Worsley, Lord

Harcourt, G. G.

Wortley, hon. J. S.

Hayes, Sir E.

Yorke, H. R.

Henley, J. W.

Herbert, rt. hon. S.

TELLERS.

Hobhouse, rt. hn. Sir J.

Young, J.

Hope, G. W.

Cripps, T.

The debate adjourned.
House adjourned at quarter past Twelve.