Commons Sitting of 17 June 1841

MINUTES.
Bills. Read a second time:—Bills of Exchange; Loan Societies.—Read a third time:—Highway Rates.
Petitions presented. By Sir M, Chapman, from Westmeath,
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by Lord Barrington, from Brighton, and another place, by Sir C. Burrell, from Sussex, and by Colonel Perceval, from Mayo, against any Alteration of the Corn-laws.—By Mr. Hayter, Mr. Wyse, and Mr. Baines, from various districts of the Metropolis, by Mr. Villiers, from various counties in England and Scotland, and by Mr. Pryme, from Cambridge, for a Repeal of the Corn-laws..—By Mr. Macaulay, from Scotland, against Church Patronage.—By Mr. Fielden, from various places, for a Repeal of the New Poor-law; and for a Law to limit the Labour of hands in Factories.—-By Mr. A. Chapman, from the Chamber of Commerce of Greenock, against the Alteration of the Timber Duties.—By Sir W. Follett, from Solicitors of Exeter, praying for a change in the Site of the Law Courts

OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON.
On the motion of the Attorney-general the Order of the Day for the committal of this bill was read and discharged, for the purpose of withdrawing it till the next Session.
Order of the day discharged. Bill withdrawn.

FOREIGN FACTORIES.
Mr. Wodehousemoved,
"That an humble Address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid before Parliament, through the medium of her ambassadors or other diplomatic residents abroad, copies of all regulations established in foreign factories, together with such explanations in detail as the nature of the cases will admit; describing the character of the food used therein, and the wages paid therein, whether in specie or in kind."'
Mr. Laboucheresaid, that his only objection to the motion arose from the impression upon his mind, that the information asked for had already been laid before the House in the returns and reports made by our foreign consuls for the information of the Poor-law commissioners. He thought that no additional information whatever could be obtained by the present motion; and it was scarcely fair to the consuls themselves, having so recently troubled them upon a similar subject, to call upon them to make fresh returns.
Mr. Humesaid, he had given notice several days previously of his intention to move an amendment, which would have raised a general discussion on this subject, but in the present state of the House it appeared to him that no advantage would be derived from such a course. It was his intention to have brought the subject before the House this Session, and he would suggest to the President of the Board of Trade that he should do as was done by the Government of the United

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States, where the tariffs were collected, and a copy of them distributed among the Members of Congress. He thought that it was the business of her Majesty's Government to collect the tariffs of every country with which we had commercial intercourse. We ought to know at what rate our manufactures were received in every country with which we dealt. This ought to be the business of some department or of some individual officer, and he knew no one better qualified for it than the Board of Trade. When he (Mr. Hume) was in Holland, he found they were publishing a quadruple tariff of the principal nations with which they dealt, and he did not see why England should be backward on the subject. His object was, that the House should be put in possession of the tariff of every State with which we traded, and that authentic copies of them should be in the possession of every Member of that House who felt interested in such subjects.
Mr. Wodehousefelt almost disposed to withdraw his motion, as the hon. Member for Kilkenny had made a statement far beyond it.
Mr. Humewished to know whether the hon. Member opposite would have any objection to amend his motion, so as to give the tariffs of all States?
Mr. Laboucheredid not see, that the motion had any thing to do with the tariffs of other nations. On that head one of the Secretaries to the Board of Trade was engaged in collecting information, which, when ready, would be laid on the Table of the House, and he hoped the hon. Gentleman would rest satisfied with this, and not press his motion to a division.
Sir John Gueststated, that he did not rise to object to the motion, although he feared that it would be exceedingly difficult to obtain the detailed information required; but he rose principally to notice what fell from a noble Lord, in another place, in respect to the iron trade. From what fell from that noble Lord, it might be inferred that the iron trade was in a flourishing state—a statement which he was sorry to say he could not confirm. On the contrary, a reduction in the price of bar iron had taken place of about 30 percent,; and it was now in so distressed a state, that a reduction of a large amount in the rate of wages paid to the workmen in that trade had already taken place, and still further reduction was, he regretted to
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say, on the eve of being effected. The iron trade was very much dependent upon the export trade, and it was impossible it could be prosperous unless we could take, in exchange for iron, those articles which we required and which other countries had to dispose of. He alluded particularly to the United States of America, upon commercial relations with which the iron trade mainly depended for prosperity.
Mr. Villiersthought that our ambassadors or consular agents had no right to enter the manufactories in foreign nations for the purpose of obtaining the information required by the hon. Gentleman who brought forward this motion.
Mr. Wodehousesaid, he had never heard so extraordinary an assertion as that made by the hon. Member for Wolverhatnpton. His object was, to obtain information in regard to the wages and habits of foreign workmen, which might be of great use in illustrating the condition of the working classes of this country, and he could not therefore withdraw his motion.
Motion agreed to.
Adjourned.