Commons Sitting of 8 July 1840

MINUTES.
Bill. Read a second time:—Punishment of Death.
Petitions presented. By Mr. Wallace, from Greenock, in favour of Immigration of Free Labourers into our West India Colonies—By Mr. Lambton, from Durham, against Church Extension.—By Mr. Villiers, from Sheffield, Wolverhampton, and other places, against Sergeant Talfourd's Copyright Bill; and from Camden-town, and other places, for the Repeal of the Corn-laws.—By Mr. Handley, from Handloom Weavers of Norwich, complaining of the Reduction of the Duty on East India Silk.—By Mr. F. Kelly, from Ipswich, against the New Poor-law and from the Guardians of a Poor-law Union in Suffolk, in favour of the Law.—By Mr. Sergeant Talfourd, from Kilbride, in favour of a Mitigation of the sentence passed on Frost, Williams, and Jones, and Mr. F. O'Connor; and from Reading, and other places, in favour of the Copyright Bill.—By Mr. Grote, from Merchants of London connected with New South Wales, against the application of the Funds derived from the Sale of Lands to purposes other than the Encouragement of Emigration.—By Mr. M. Philips, from the Chamber of Commerce of Manchester, for the Equalisation of the Duties on Sugar and Coffee.—By Mr. T. Duncombe, from Glasgow, against Severity to Political Offenders; a"d from the Licensed Victuallers of London, for an Amendment of the Law.—By Mr. V. Smith, from the Mayor and Corporation of Northampton, in favour of the Immigration of Free Labour into our West India Colonies.

COPYRIGHT.
Mr. Sergeant Talfourd, adverting to the position of the bill, and to the little chance he had of getting it passed in the present Session, moved the order of the day for going into Committee on it, for the purpose of having it discharged.
Order of the day read and discharged.

SALE OF BEER.
Mr. Pakingtonhaving moved the order of the day for the adjourned debate upon receiving the report of the Sale of Beer Bill, No. 2,
The motion was agreed to, and bill reported.
Viscount Sandon Viscount Sandon moved the clause of which he had given notice for preventing the consumption of beer on the premises in houses hereafter to be licensed for the first time or to new tenants. The evil tendency of beer-shops in which the beer was consumed had been proved by the combined testimony, not merely of magistrates and police officers, but of the clergy of the Established Church, Dissenting ministers, and Roman Catholic priests, whose signatures were appended in great numbers to the petitions which had been presented to the House praying for an amendment of the law on this subject.
Clause read a first time. On the question that it be read a second time,
Mr. Pakingtonsaid, he could not agree that any such clause should be added to the bill, and even if it were, he doubted whether a provision of that nature could have the effect which his noble Friend anticipated. He fell perfectly convinced, that that new mode of dealing with a very difficult question would be most extensively evaded. He was opposed to the clause, but, though his opinion happened to be otherwise, he still apprehended that the opinion of the House would eventually be rendered adverse to the whole measure, in case his noble Friend succeeded in effecting the proposed alteration.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, it appeared to him that the clause would create a new class of privileged houses. An attempt was made to reconcile the interests of beerhouse-keepers and licensed victuallers, while the consideration of the public interest was altogether omitted. The effect of the bill, should it pass into a law, with the clause proposed, would be equivalent to an entire repeal of the existing Beer Act. The whole system of monopoly would be again revived, and the
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old abuses re-enacted. A free trade in beer had been established; if they attempted to put an end to that, an illicit trade would, he feared, immediately arise, which the police would be unable to repress.
The House divided: Ayes 47; Noes 91: Majority 44.

List of the AYES.

Acland, Sir T. D.

Hughes, W. B.

Baldwin, C. B.

Kelly, F.

Barneby, J.

Lascelles, hon. W. S.

Bradshaw, J.

Lennox, Lord A.

Broadley, H.

Miles, P. W. S.

Bruges, W. H. L.

Nicholl, J.

Burrell, Sir C.

Packe, C. W.

Cavendish, hon. G. H.

Palmer, R.

Cresswell, C.

Parker, R. T.

Dick, Q.

Powerscourt, Visct.

Duffield, T.

Pusey, P.

Du Pre, G.

Rae, right hon. Sir W.

Egerton, W. T.

Richards, R.

Egerton, Sir P.

Rushbrooke, Colonel

Eliot, Lord

Rushout, G.

Farnham, E. B.

Shaw, right hon. F.

Feilden, W.

Sheppard, T.

Gaskell, J. Milnes

Sturt, H. C.

Gladstone, W. E.

Vere, Sir C. B.

Goring, H. D.

Verner, Colonel

Greene, T.

Wilmot, Sir J. E.

Grimsditch, T.

Winnington, Sir T. E.

Halford, H.

TELLERS.

Hector, C. J.

Sandon, Viscount

Hogg,J. W.

Barrington, Viscount

List of the NOES.

Ainsworth, P.

Guest, Sir J.

Alston, R.

Hamilton, C. J. B.

Baring, rt. hon. F. T.

Handley, H.

Barnard, E. G.

Hill, Lord A. M. C.

Bewes, T.

Hobhouse, T. B.

Blackstone, W. S.

Hope, hon. C.

Blair, J.

Hoskins, K.

Briscoe, J. I.

Houstoun, G.

Brotherton, J.

Hume, J.

Bryan, G.

Hurt, F.

Buller, E.

Hutchins, E. J.

Burroughes, H. N.

Hutt, W.

Clements, Viscount

Irton, S.

Clive, E. B.

Langdale, hon. C.

Clive, hon. R. H.

Langton, W. G.

Cowper, hon. W. F.

Lushington, C.

Currie, R.

Lygon, hon. General

Darby, G.

Lynch, A. H.

Denison, W. J.

Maule, hon. F.

Dugdale, W. S.

Morris, D.

Duncombe, T.

Muntz, G. F.

Ellice, E.

Muskett, G. A.

Estcourt, T.

Paget, F.

Euston, Earl of

Parker, J.

Evans, W.

Pechell, Capt.

Ewart, W.

Pendarves, E. W. W.

Finch, F.

Philips, M.

Greg, R. H.

Philips, G. R.

Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.

Pinney, W.

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Rice, E. R.

Tufnell, H.

Russell, Lord J.

Turner, E.

Scholefield, J.

Vigors, N. A.

Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.

Villiers, hon. C. P.

Shirley, E. J.

Waddington, H. S.

Slaney, R. A.

Wakley, T.

Smith, J. A.

Warburton, H.

Smith, B.

Ward, H. G.

Smith, R. V.

White, A.

Somerset, Lord G.

Williams, W.

Stanley, hon. E. J.

Williams, W. A.

Stanley, hon. W. O.

Winnington, H. J.

Stansfield, W. R. C.

Worsley, Lord

Style, Sir C.

Wrightson, W. B.

Talbot, C. R. M.

Wyse, T.

Tancred, H. W.

TELLERS.

Thornely, T.

Pakington, J. S.

Thornhill, G.

Sanford, E. A.

Bill to be read a third time.

DRAINAGE OF LANDS.
On the motion of Mr. Handley, House in Committee on the Drainage of Lands Bill.
On clause 2,
Lord G. Somersetproposed, that the words "two-thirds of quantity" be omitted, and "three-fourths of occupiers" substituted.
The Committee divided on the question, that the words proposed to be left out remain: Ayes 38; Noes 16: Majority 22.
Clause to stand part of the bill.
On clause 24
Mr. Darbysaid it conferred arbitrary power upon the commissioners, without any guarantee for its due exercise. He moved that the words "to make" be omitted, leaving them only the power to continue and improve present drains.
Mr. Handleysupported the clause.
The committee divided on the original question: Ayes 28; Noes 18: Majority 10.
Clause agreed to.
On the 93d clause, the act not to extend to certain districts,
Mr. Hodges Mr. Hodges moved as an amendment, to add words excluding sewers in any county of England or Wales from the operation of the bill.
Mr. Handleyobjected to the amendment, alleging that its adoption would render the whole bill inoperative.
Mr. Darbysupported the motion of the hon. Member for Kent, and said, that if it were not carried, he would move a clause exempting the county of Sussex from the operation of the bill.
Committee divided on the question, that the words be added: Ayes 22; Noes 48: Majority 26.

List of the AYES.

Baldwin, C. B.

Hughes, W. B.

Bernal, R.

Hutchins, E. J.

Boldero, H. G.

Kelly, F.

Broadley, H.

Muskett, G.A.

Darby, G.

Rice, E. R.

Du Pre, G.

Richards, R.

Evans, W.

Salwey, Col.

Fielden, J.

Sibthorp, Col.

Fleetwood, Sir H. P.

Williams, W.

Goring, H. D.

Grimsditch, T.

TELLERS.

Hector, C. J.

Hodges, L.

Hoskins, K.

Williams, W. A.

List of the NOES.

Baines, E.

Morris, D.

Barnard, E. G.

Muntz, G. F.

Berkeley, hon. C.

Nagle, Sir R.

Bewes, T.

Pechell, Captain

Brotherton, J.

Phillpotts, J.

Bruges, W. H. L.

Power, J.

Buller, E.

Pryme, G.

Currie, R.

Pusey, P.

D'Eyncourt, rt. hn. C.T.

Rundle, J.

Scholefleld, J.

Ewart, W.

Stanley, hon. W. O.

Finch, F.

Style, Sir C.

Fitzsimon, N.

Talfourd, Mr. Serj.

Grosvenor, Lord R.

Thornely, T.

Halford, H.

Turner, E.

Hawes, B.

Vigors, N. A.

Hill, Lord A. M. C.

Wakley, T.

Hinde, J.H.

Wallace, R.

Hindley, C.

White, A.

Hobhouse, T. B.

Wilmot, Sir J. E.

Hodgson, R.

Winnington, H. J.

Langdale, hon. C.

Wood, G. W.

Langton, W. G.

Wood, B.

Lascelles, hon. W.S.

TELLERS.

Lushington, C.

Handley, H.

Maule, hon. F.

Lynch, A. H.

Clause agreed to, as were the remaining clauses.
House resumed—report to be brought up.
[We give the names in. the last division only.]

PUNISHMENT OF DEATH.
Mr. F. Kelly, in moving that this bill be read a second time, wished to say a few words in consequence of what had fallen from the Attorney-general upon the introduction of the bill. His hon. and learned Friend then stated it to be his decided opinion, that the benefits of this measure ought to to be extended to Ireland and Scotland, and in that opinion he (Mr. Kelly) entirely concurred. It having appeared to him also that at the time that opinion was expressed, it had met with the sanction of a great ma-

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jority of Gentlemen who represented those two portions of the country, he had felt it his duty to cause two separate bills to be prepared, in order to extend the benefit of this measure to Ireland and Scotland. As the matter had been fully discussed on a former occasion, without, as it appeared to him, any objection to the principle of the present bill, he should feel it an unwarrantable trespass on the time of the House if he were to do more than move that the bill be read a second time.
Mr. F. Maulewould not oppose the motion, but would give the hon. and learned Gentleman warning of his intention to propose many alterations in the bill when in committee, upon which he should take the sense of the House. He was opposed to capital punishment in every case where it was not likely to be attended with a good effect as an example; because he held that it was not an act of vengeance, but an act which was resorted to for the purpose of deterring others from following in the footsteps of those who suffered the extreme sentence of the law.
Bill read a second time.