Commons Sitting of 6 February 1840

MINUTES.
Bills. Road a first time:—Sale of Beer; Colonial Passengers.
Petitions presented. By Messrs. G. Evans, O'Connell, and S. O'Brien, from a number of places, for Extension of the Franchise, and Corporate Reform for Ireland.—By Earl Jermyn, and Colonel Rushbrooke, from several places, against any further Grant to Maynooth College.—By Sir R. H. Inglis, Mr. Pakington, and Lord Granville Somerset, from a number of places, for Increased Church Accommodation,—By Mr. Wallace, from a great number of Carriers, against the Monopoly of Railroad Companies.—By Sir G. Sinclair, and Mr. F. Maule, from places in Scotland, against Intruding Ministers into Parishes.—By Messrs. Alston, and Hume, from two places, for the Release of John Thorogood, and for the Abolition of Church Rates.

HILL COOLIES.
Sir J. Grahamwished to put a question to the noble Secretary for the Colonies respecting the Hill Coolies. He understood the noble Lord on a former night to declare that her Majesty's Government had come to a determination to renounce the resolution to which they had formerly come, respecting the deportation of Hill Coolies from the continent of India to the West Indies under eon-tract of low wages for labour, which they were to perform on their arrival in those colonies. He understood the noble Lord to say that such a change of decision was

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only contemplated, and that it had not yet been made. He likewise understood the noble Lord to say that the Government wished to have a discussion on the subject in that House before they made that change. He now wished to be informed of the time and occasion when her Majesty's Ministers would be prepared to explain the reasons for this contemplated change of policy. He likewise wished to know whether it were the intention of Ministers to extend their change of policy to the Hill Coolies to be transported to the West Indies, or to limit it only to those transported to the Mauritius. If the noble Lord would take a suggestion from him, he would suggest that a motion for leave to bring in a bill to carry his plan into execution, would afford the best opportunity for discussing the policy and tendency of the measure to be adopted for the emigration of the Hill Coolies.
Lord J. Russellwas understood to intimate that all he had said on a former occasion was, that he wished to have the opinion of Parliament on the policy of the measure he intended to adopt. He believed that that measure might be accomplished without the assistance of Parliament. At the same time he was inclined to agree with the right hon. Baronet, that the best mode, perhaps, of taking the sense of Parliament on the question, would be to introduce a bill on the subject. It certainly was a very material change, and he should be very glad to ascertain the opinion of Parliament as to its expediency. He would, therefore, take into his consideration the suggestion of the right hon. Baronet. In the mean time he would say that no further steps would be taken by Government until Parliament had decided whether they ought to be taken or not. He did not know whether the right hon. Baronet was aware that what he had stated on a former night had reference to the Mauritius alone.

PENNY POSTAGE.
Sir C. Knightley: Seeing the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his place, I wish to ask him whether he is aware that a person, who is in the habit of receiving annually large sums out of the Post-office, has recently been informed that he will no longer receive them from that department, but must get a warrant for them from the Stamp-office, as the Post-office is no longer able to pay its own expenses?
The Chancellor of the Exchequer: I have not heard of any such statement; and I think, that if such a circumstance had occurred, I must have been made acquainted with it.
Sir C. Knightley: I have not done with the right hon. Gentleman. I have another question to ask him. Is there any chance of his making fresh regulations for the management of the Post-office? I will tell the right hon. Gentleman why I ask that question. On the 18th of January last, the porter of the Carlton Club— [Laughter] Why should hon. Gentleman laugh? The Carlton Club is surely as respectable as the Reform Club. Well, on the 18th of January last, the porter of the Carlton Club went at twenty-five minutes to six o'clock with the letters of that club to the receiving-house at Char-ing-cross. There was such a crowd before it that he could not get with his letters to the window, so he went round to the door of the house. He was told that they did not take in letters there, and was in consequence obliged to try the window again. Whilst looking about him, he saw the porter of the Athenaeum close to the window, and he asked him to take his letters, mentioning their number and the money due for them. [Confusion in the House.] The man at the Post-office window, seeing this done by our porter, swore and cursed at him, and used very abusive language. I will now tell the House what happened to myself on Monday last. ["Order," from various parts of the House.]
The Speakersaid, there was no question before the House, and that he was, therefore, out of order, when
Sir C. Knightleyproceeded—I wish to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he intends to make any alteration in the regulations of the Post-office? And for this reason:—On Monday last, I put a letter into the Post office myself, and I put in another on Tuesday last. I have no doubt, therefore, that the letters were put into the Post-office. I have this day heard that neither the letter which I put into the post on Monday, nor that which I put into it on Tuesday, has yet been received. Another question which I have to ask relates to a money letter, which was sent up to London from the country. For several days the letter and the remittance were lost, but at last it was found that the letter-carrier had stolen the letter.

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I want to know whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer's new regulations had any hand in this?
The Chancellor of the Exchequer: If the hon. Baronet, instead of bringing his charges against the Post-office in a way in which the forms of the House almost preclude me from giving any answer to them, will have the goodness to put them down in writing, particularizing, at the same time, names, dates, and places, and will give me time to make the necessary inquiry into the correctness of those charges, he will find every inclination on my part to procure him satisfaction. If any officer, either in the Post-office or in any other public department of the Government over which I have control, shall have been guilty of such conduct as the hon. Baronet has mentioned, I can assure him that from me at least that officer shall receive no encouragement. At the same time I must tell the hon. Baronet, that it is not fair that these accusations should be made without notice, as under such circumstances neither the Government nor its officers have the means of entering on their defence.
Mr. Barnebyclaimed for a short time the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He had that morning received a letter from one of his constituents, stating that about fourteen days ago he transmitted the sum of 75l. to one of his correspondents in a letter through the Post-office, and that he had since discovered that both the money and the letter had been lost. His correspondent had also been informed that a friend of his at Dudley had lost 60l. in a similar manner. He had made communication of these circumstances to the authorities of the Post-office, and he believed that they were now undergoing inquiry there. The question which he had to ask was, whether it was the intention of Government to check as much as possible the transmission of money letters through the Post-office?
The Chancellor of the Exchequerthought it advisable that parties should not transmit large sums of money through the Post-office, as it was impossible to guarantee entire security for such sums in the large number of letters now delivered. Small sums, however, might be transmitted through the post in perfect safety by an order from one post-office upon another.
Mr. Goulburnsuggested that a branch office should be formed for the purpose of transmitting money letters and money orders, and that in this office a system of registration should be adopted. Such an office would be a great advantage to the public.
Mr. Barneby: Am I, then, to understand that it is not the intention of the Government to resume the system of registration of money letters which formerly prevailed?
The Chancellor of the Exchequer: There never was any system of registration for money letters. Letters supposed to contain sovereigns had been placed apart; but there never was a regular system of registration. Considering the multitude of letters which now pass through the Post-office, it was impossible, from the loss of time it would occasion, to establish a system of registration. Indeed, he had felt it to be his duty to advise the authorities of the Post-office to issue a caution against transmitting money letters through the Post-office.
Subject dropped.

PRIVILEGE—STOCKDALE v. HANSARD—MR. HOWARD.
The Sergeant-at Arms announced that Thomas Burton Howard was in custody.
The Speakerordered him to be brought to the bar.
Mr. Howardthen appeared at the bar in the custody of the sergeant-at-arms.
The Speaker—Thomas Burton Howard, the House has been informed that on the 24th of February a writ of summons was served on the Messrs. Hansard, commanding them to enter an appearance within eight days of the receipt of the writ in the Court of Queen's Bench, in an action at the suit of John Joseph Stock-dale. They were also informed that your name was endorsed on the writ. Are you the attorney in the action?
Mr. Howard—I am.
What is the cause of action?—A subsequent publication of a libel.
The Speaker—Was that libel contained in a report published by the authority of this House?—It was.
Did you receive instructions from Mr. Stockdale to commence that action against the Messrs. Hansard?—I did.
Mr. Hume—In what publication of this House was the libel contained?
Mr. Howard—It was a report of the inspectors of prisons.
The same as before?—The same as before.
Mr. Howard was ordered to withdraw.
The short-hand writer having read over his notes of the examination,
Lord J. Russellsaid, that the motion he had to make arose directly from the examination of Mr. Howard at the bar. The motion he had to propose to the House was to the following effect:—
"That Thomas Burton Howard, having served a writ of summons upon Messrs. Hansards, the printers of that House, for the purpose of causing them to appear to an action in the Court of Queen's Bench, which he had brought at the instance of John Joseph Stock-dale, against them for a libel which they had published in the papers printed for the House, had been guilty of a high contempt of the privileges of that House."
Mr. Humedid not wish to offer any objections to the motion of the noble Lord, but he begged to suggest whether it would not be proper to send for Mr. Stockdale, for the purpose of asking him whether he had given the instructions to Mr. Howard.
Sir R. Inglisdid not believe that a single instance existed of a prisoner being brought up to the bar for the purpose of convicting another person and himself too. He objected to t\ie motion of the noble Lord, looking at the course which the House had pursued, when the second action was brought, namely, that of instructing the Attorney-general to appear. He stated yesterday that he did not question the right of the House to summon Mr. Howard to the bar, because it would be impossible to carry on any private bill without the House had that power; but he did deny the right of the House to exercise the power of summoning parties to their bar for the purpose of inflicting punishment upon them. They were called on to take another step, from which the House could with propriety desist. He hoped, therefore, that the House would not further involve itself, and that Mr. Howard would be discharged.
Lord J. Russellmoved that the admonition of the Speaker to Mr. Howard, on the former occasion, be read; which was accordingly done by the clerk.
Sir E. Sugdenwould move as an amendment, that Mr. Howard be brought to the bar to-morrow. He did so for this rea-
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son, that the adjourned debate on the case of the sheriffs would come on to morrow, and the decision on their case might influence that of Mr. Howard.
The Attorney-Generalsaid, it was not for him at all to anticipate what might be the decision of the House on the case of the sheriffs. The House might think there were circumstances in their case which should mitigate their punishment. But the House was then considering what should be done with Mr. Howard. And when it was recollected that, after the admonition of the Speaker, which had just been read, and which had been ordered, nemine contradicente, to be entered on the journals, and after the professed regret of Mr. Howard for having incurred the displeasure of that House, Mr. Howard had instantly commenced another action; he trusted the House would not hesitate to commit him at once to Newgate. That seemed to him the only course open to them for the maintainance of their privileges.
Mr. Shawthought the course recommended by the Attorney-general was very severe, and he agreed with his hon. Friend that the matter had better stand over until to-morrow night, which he thought would be the more consistent course. He certainly thought the House possessed the power of publishing its proceedings, but he could not concur with the resolutions which decreed that every other court which presumed to decide on such questions was guilty of a breach of privilege. He thought the House was right in its original course of giving instruction to its servant to plead to the action, and he thought the further they departed from that course the greater would be the difficulties in which they would be involved. He would go as far as any one in maintaining the just privileges of the House, but he believed they would be best maintained by not stretching them beyond their just limits. He thought the proper course would have been, to have brought a writ of error, and then, if they had failed, which he was disposed to think they would not, they could have adopted the motion of his hon. Friend respecting legislation, which would not fail of its proper effect. If all other means had been tried and had failed, then he was ready to admit the present was the only course to be pursued. He entreated the noble Lord to let the result of the debate of the following day be as-

1317
certained before he proceeded in his motion.
Mr. Warburtonobserved, that the question was not whether the House was or was not to punish any individual for having committed a breach of its privileges, but whether Mr. Howard should be committed to Newgate for having been guilty of a high contempt towards that House. There could be no question that the House was the sole judge of its own privileges. This view of the subject was sanctioned by the proceedings of the Congress of the United States, and by the solemn decision of the Supreme Court of Judicature there, as would be found on reference to the 6th volume of Wheatson's Reports of Appeal Cases to the Supreme Courts. The Attorney-general of the United States had stated it to be his opinion, and the Supreme Court had upheld that opinion, that the Congress was the sole judge of its own privileges, and that these privileges did not admit of a contest in any other place. The opinion of the Attorney-general was, "that a legislative body was of necessity possessed of the power of committal, and that it was also possessed of the power of judging of its own privileges, and how far those privileges had been violated; and, also, that no other person could in any case presume to judge of them." This opinion, elicited in the case of Anderton against Dunn, was sufficient to prove, that the United States took an enlarged view of the privileges attached to Congress, and it also proved that there were not those fears entertained with respect to a democratic body amongst a republican people, which had been so broadly put forth in reference to the present case.
Mr. Goulburnobserved, that if the House of Commons could not stand upon its own authority, it could derive no asssistance from the Congress of the United States. For his part he was not of opinion that the amendment ought to be pressed, and for that reason he would vote with the noble Lord opposite. Mr. Howard had already been summoned to the bar of that House, and he had been warned that the course he had taken was opposed to the privileges of the House; nor did he think that because there was a discussion upon the same subject pending before the House, the present motion ought to be delayed for one hour. He should, therefore, vote for the proposal of the noble Lord.
The House divided on the original motion:—Ayes 147; Noes 45:—Majority 102.
Lord J Russellthen moved, that "Mr. T. B. Howard, having been guilty of a high contempt and breach of the privileges of the House, be, for the said offence, committed to her Majesty's gaol of Newgate; and that Mr. Speaker do issue his warrants accordingly."
Mr. Joneshoped that the sheriffs would continue to do their duty, and that in pursuance of the line they had adopted, they would let Mr. Howard out of Newgate as soon as he was sent there.
Mr. D'Israeliwanted to know why Mr. Howard was sent to Newgate, whilst Mr. Stockdale was merely confined within the precincts of the House?
Lord J. Russellreplied, that the reason for retaining Mr. Stockdale in the custody of the Sergeant was founded on the possibility that a writ of habeas corpus might be issued, which would render it necessary for the prisoner to be brought up before the proper authorities. This, in fact, had occurred, and it was deemed expedient that the officer of the House was more competent to retain the custody of the person under the orders of Mr. Speaker, than the other ordinary functionaries were. The case of habeas having been decided in favour of the power of the House, Mr. Howard might be sent to Newgate without any inconvenience; and, so far from desiring to establish any difference between Mr. Howard and his principal, Mr. Stock-dale, he was ready to move, on the next sitting of the House, "that Mr. Stockdale be committed, on the Speaker's warrant, to Newgate."
Sir E. Sugdenexpressed a wish that the proceedings, in the present case, had not been so distinctly marked by party feeling as they had been. He distinctly said party feeling—nor did he allude to the noble Lord opposite—but to the hon. Members on his side, who had cheered the noble Lord's announcement of his intention to commit Mr. Stockdale to Newgate. Let the punishment due to the offenders in this case be administered, but let not the House exult over the victims of its privileges. He hoped the subject would be renewed on the following day with becoming temper. In the mean time, he would offer a decided negative to the motion of the noble Lord.
The House again divided—Ayes 149; Noes 46:—Majority 103.

List of the AYES.

Aglionby, Major

Hinde, J. H.

Alston, R.

Hobhouse, Sir J.'

Archbold, R.

Hobhouse, T. B.

Bainbridge, E. T.

Hodgson, R.

Baker, E.

Hope, hon. C.

Bannerman, A.

Horsman, E.

Baring, F. T.

Howard, F. J.

Barnard, E. G.

Howick, Lord Vis.

Beamish, F. B.

Hughes, W. B.

Benett, J.

Hume, J.

Berkeley, hon. H.

Hutt, F.

Bernal, R.

Irving, J.

Bewes, T.

Jenkins, Sir R.

Blair, J.

Labouchere, H.

Blennerhassett, A.

Lambton, H.

Bodkin, J.

Langdale, hon. C.

Boiling, W.

Lascelles, W. S.

Bowes, J.

Loch, J.

Broadwood, H.

Lockhart, A. M.

Brodie, W. B.

Lowther, J. H.

Brotherton, J.

Lushington, C.

Busfeild, W.

Macaulay, T. B.

Campbell, Sir J.

Mackenzie, W. F.

Cantilupe, Lord

Macleod, R.

Chapman, Sir M.

Maule,hon. F.

Chichester, J. P. B.

Milnes, R. M.

Clay, W.

Morpeth, Lord

Clerk, Sir G.

Morris, D.

Colquhoun, J. C.

Muntz, G. F.

Compton, H. C.

Murray, A.

Currie, R.

Nagle, Sir R.

Dalmeny, Lord

Noel, hon. C. G.

Dennistoun, J.

Norreys, Sir D.

Divett, E.

O'Brien, C.

Douglas, Sir C. E.

O'Brien, W. S.

Duff, J. O

Callaghan, C.

Dundas, F.

O'Connell, D.

Du Pré, G.

O'Connell, M. J.

Elliot,hon. J. E.

O'Conor Don

Ellice, E.

Oswald, J.

Evans, Sir De L.

Palmerston, Lord

Evans, W.

Parker, J.

Fielden, W.

Patten, J. W.

Fenton, J.

Pattison, J.

Finch, F.

Peel, Sir R.

Fitzalan, Lord

Pigot, D. R.

Fleetwood, Sir P.

Planta, J.

Fremantle, Sir T.

Power, J.

French, F.

Protheroe, E.

Gillon, W. D.

Redington, T. N.

Gordon, R.

Reid, Sir J.R.

Gore, O. J.R.

Roche, W.

Goulburn, H.

Russell, Lord J.

Graham, Sir J.

Rutherford, A.

Greig, D.

Salwey, Colonel

Grey, Sir C.

Sanford, E. A.

Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.

Seale, Sir J. H.

Harcourt, G. G.

Seymour, Lord

Hardinge, Sir H.

Sheppard, T.

Hastie, A.

Smith, G. R.

Hawes, B.

Smith, R. V.

Heathcote, J.

Somers, J. P.

Hill, Lord A. M. C.

Somerville, Sir W. M.

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Stansfield, W. R.

Wallace, R.

Staunton, Sir G.

Warburton, H.

Stuart, Lord J.

Ward, H. G.

Stuart, W. P.

White, A.

Stock, Dr

Wilde, Sergeant

Strickland, Sir G.

Williams, W.

Surrey, Earl of

Winnington, Sir T. E.

Tufnell, H.

Winnington, H. J.

Vigors, N. A.

Wood, C.

Vivian, J. H.

Young, J.

Vivian, Sir R. H.

TELLERS.

Walker, R.

Stanley, E. J.

Wall, C. B.

Steuart, R.

List of the NOES.

Alsager, Captain

Lygon, Gen.

Barneby, J.

Mahon, Lord

Boldero, H. G.

Norreys, Lord

Broadley, H.

Packe, C. W.

Bruges, W. H. L.

Pakington, J. S.

Conolly, E.

Pigot, R.

Darby, G.

Polhill, F.

Dowdeswell, W.

Praed, W. T.

Duncombe, T.

Richards, R.

Duncombe, W.

Rolleston, L.

Duncombe, A.

Rushbrooke, Colonel

Eaton, R. J.

Shaw, F.

Eliot, Lord

Shirley, E. J.

Filmer, Sir E.

Sturt, H. C.

Fitzroy, H.

Sugden, Sir E.

Gladstone, W. E.

Tennent, J. E.

Halford, H.

Tyrrell, Sir J. T.

Hamilton, Lord C.

Vere, Sir C. B.

Hogg, J. W.

Walsh, Sir J.

Hope, G. W.

Williams, R.

Inglis Sir R. H.

Wood, Col. T.

Jackson, Serg.

Jones, J.

TELLERS.

Lincoln, Earl of

Kelly, F.

Litton, E.

D'Israeli, B.

Speaker to issue his warrant for the committal of Mr. Howard to Newgate.
The first division was composed so almost exclusively of the same persons as the second, that it is unnecessary to repeat the names on the first division.

STAGE COACHES—(IRELAND).
Mr. E. Tennentmoved for leave to bring in a bill to regulate the stage coaches running in Ireland.
Viscount Morpethintimated that the Government had no objection to this measure, and had intended to bring in a bill on the same subject.
Mr. Humeobserved, that the hon. Member opposite had not offered a syllable in explanation on behalf of his bill. The Secretary to the Irish Government had expressed his readiness to bring in a bill on the same subject, and why should not the measure of the hon. Member be handed over to the noble Lord, in order that the

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matter should receive due attention? He decidedly objected to the proceeding.
Sir R. Peelsaid, that the subject was a very complicated one, but he saw no reason why his hon. Friend should not have leave to introduce his bill. The pre. sent was the third occasion in which the Ministers had, by their own avowals, been anticipated in their own measures, and he would only express a hope that his hon. Friend would continue in the same course.
Leave given.

THANKS TO THE INDIAN ARMY.
Sir John Hobhousethen rose and said: In pursuance of the notice which I placed on the Table of this House on a very early day of the present Session, I rise to move a vote of thanks to the Governor-General of India, and the officers and men of the army of the Indus, for themilitary operations which have recently taken place to the westward of the Indus. In doing this I only follow the practice which has uniformly prevailed, almost ever since the very commencement of the British empire in India—from the moment that the thanks of this House were reluctantly wrung from those who doubted the expediency of the great exploits performed by Lord Clive, in the foundation of our empire in India, almost up to the present day. Lord Cornwallis in the year 1792; the Marquess Wellesley in the year 1799, and again in the year 1804; Lord Minto in the year 1812, and the Marquess of Hastings in the years 1817 and 1819, received, as Governors-general of India, the thanks of this House. On two of the occasions—and those the best known—which I have just now mentioned, the thanks of Parliament were confined to the military arrangements and operations; and the policy and origin of the wars were studiously kept out of view by those who, being placed in the position which I now fill, proposed those thanks. Such was the case in 1804, when Lord Castlereagh proposed a vote of thanks to the Marquess Wellesley; and such also was the course adopted when Mr. Canning proposed a vote of thanks to the Marquess of Hastings. I take the liberty of following these examples, and in what I am about to address to the House, I shall expressly keep out of view the policy, the cause, and the origin of the war; and I shall confine myself to the military operations and arrangements made by the Governor-General, and carried into effect by the army of the Indus. I hold this to be the expe-
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dient course to pursue, for the policy was our own—it was that of the Government, and we are responsible for it; and if that policy is questioned it is for us to defend it, and we are prepared to do so; and it would be unfair to the brave men to whom I have just alluded, to mix up any explanation or defence of the policy of our proceedings, with a statement of their exploits. Her Majesty, immediately on receiving intelligence of the late successes of the army of the Indus, and of the fall of Ghuznee, and of the entrance of the army into Cabool, honoured me with her gracious commands, to convey her cordial approbation to the Governor-General, to Lord Keane, and to the officers and soldiers under his command, and many honours have been conferred on those who were engaged in these brilliant exploits. It was with great satisfaction also, that I saw those who were well able to appreciate the merits of this enterprise— namely, the Court of Directors and the Court of Proprietors of the East India Company, render their thanks to Lord Auckland, to Sir John Keane, and the army under his command. The other House also has passed votes of thanks to those engaged in these achievements, and it now only remains for this branch of the legislature to do its duty in this respect, and to acknowledge the merits of those, by whom they have been planned and performed. I trust, however, before I propose those votes, that I shall be pardoned if I very briefly—indeed, as briefly as the nature of the subject will admit of—describe the progress of the troops in their arduous undertaking. For the reasons which I have mentioned, when I promised the House that I would not enter into any statement with respect to the policy of these transactions, I shall merely state, that on the 10th of September, 1838, Lord Auckland proclaimed in general orders his intention to employ a force beyond the north-west frontier of India; and on the 1st of October his Lordship published his declaration of the causes and objects of the war. Early in November the Bengal troops marched from Kurnaul to Ferozepore on the Sutledge; and Shah Soojah, at the head of his levies, left Loodhiana, and joined the British array. About the same time that these forces were concentrated at Ferozepore, the Bombay troops, under the command of Sir John Keane, embarked from Bombay, and landed at Vikkur, near the mouth of the Indus, on the 30th November. In the beginning of December the forces under Shah Soojah march, ed from Ferozepore, and were followed by

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the Bengal division, under Sir Willoughby Cotton, on the 10th of December. These divisions moved in a southerly direction towards the left bank of the Indus, whilst, on the 22d of December, the Bombay army advanced northwards on the right bank of that river. The Shah arrived on the Indus and crossed it on the 17th of January, and Sir Willoughby Cotton came in sight of it about a week afterwards, but he did not cross it, for he was obliged to move the principal part of his force towards Hyderabad, the Ameers of Lower Sinde having manifested strong dispositions to obstruct the progress of the armies. Sir John Keane also advanced towards Hyderabad, and a reserve force was ordered from Bombay to occupy the stations in the rear of our advancing columns. That reserve landed at Kurrachee, after a short resistance, on the 3d of February. The Ameers of Sinde submitted, and Sir Willoughby Cotton marched his columns back towards Bukkur, at which place he arrived and crossed the river on the 14th of February. The passage of the Indus by the British army is one of those notable events that I think it right to dwell upon for a short time. I hold in my hand various statement respecting this operation, by the gallant general who commanded the forces, and by Sir Willoughby Cotton and other distinguished officers who were on the spot, and saw the proceedings. They all describe in warm terms the skill and science displayed by the engineer department, and enlarge on the bridge constructed under the superintendence of that distinguished officer Captain Thomson. At the spot where this bridge was constructed, the river Indus is divided into two channels, between which are situated the island and fort of Bukkur. The river at this spot is 700 yards in breadth, and the channel in many places is about four fathoms in depth. The passage over one of the channels is 490 yards in breadth, and the whole of the army, with the enormous train accompanying it, passed over with perfect safety. Such was the success of this undertaking, that it called forth the general admiration of all who saw it, and it reflected the highest credit on the engineers who effected it. Although the army that passed over the Indus was numerically less than many of those large bodies of troops which were employed in military enterprises during the last war, still it formed a very numerous body. It is true, that the number of troops was only about 8,000, but there was a very numerous
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train accompanying it, for, besides horses, there were not less than 16,000 camels with it, and this great body passed over the bridges, without the loss of a single person—not one man was lost, and not a single casualty occurred during the passage of the river. I hope the House will excuse me for reading a graphic account of this operation, the accuracy of which is fully confirmed by all the accounts that I have seen.
"The bridge which had been constructed by Captains Thomson and Sanders, of the Bengal Engineers, was ready. It is described as a structure which does infinite credit to those distinguished officers, and whether we consider the difficulties they had to overcome, or the solidity of the bridge, it will justly entitle them to the consideration of the Court of Directors. Sir Henry Fane is reported to have said, that he had seen no such structure erected in so brief a period during the whole of his Peninsular campaign. The Bengal troops crossed the Indus upon it without a single casualty. It was a gallant sight to see brigade after brigade, with its martial music and its glittering arms, marching over file by file, horse, foot, and artillery, into a region as yet untrodden by British soldiers. The native soldiery are said to have been loud in their admiration of the arrangements which had been made for crossing the boundary of Hindostan, and to have gained additional confidence in the enterprise in which they were engaged."
From good authority I am able to state, that this is not an exaggerated account of the matter. The proceedings of the expedition were greatly assisted at this point by the judicious arrangements of one of the most able and intelligent officers that ever served in the Indian or any other army. I mean Sir Alexander Burnes. That gallant officer had negociated with the Ameer of Khyrpoor, and not only induced that prince to allow our forces to enter the fort of Bukkur, but also permit it to be garrisoned and kept by a portion of the reserve force of the British army. After the passage of the river Indus by the Bengal column, the Bombay troops advanced from the south, and took up the position which was formerly occupied by the Bengal troops. I have before stated, that the Bengal army was preceded by a small body of troops, amounting in all to about 6,000 men, under the command of the Shah Shooja-ool-Moolk. The Bengal column followed at the interval of a few days' inarch, and the Bombay column followed the latter about a fortnight afterwards. These three little armies, for so they might properly be called, for the whole strength of troops employed in this expedition did not

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exceed 21,000 men, marched into an almost unknown and untrodden country, but neglecting no means of ensuring success, and providing for a safe retreat in case of a reverse. The columns had to pass through the Bolan and other passes, where a small and determined body of men might have stopped the progress of a much larger army than that which formed this expedition. The first force, under the Shah Shooja-ool-Moolk, did not lose a single man in the passage through these formidable passes; the second column, composed of the Bengal troops, also did not lose a single man; but the third column, composed of the Bombay army, was not so fortunate, for in their passage through the Bolan pass,* some plunderers broke in on them, and made as attack on the British troops, which was attended with some loss—but this disaster might have happened under any circumstances, in a country like that which the troops had to traverse; and those plunderers, morever, were completely defeated and driven back. It took the army some time to advance through these mountains, and it was not until the second week in April, that the Bombay division of the army of the Indus had passed through them. On the 24th of April, the Shah entered Candahar, and that capital was taken possession of by the British troops on the 26th. The whole of the troops were concentrated at Candahar, on the 4th of May; and in consequence of the admirable discipline displayed in their advance and up to this period of the campaign, Sir John Keane thought it necessary to issue a general order, a copy of which I hold in my hand, commending them for their discipline, and for the courage which they had displayed. The army remained until the second week
* The Bolan pass to Sir-i-Khujoor is comparatively open, though commanded on each side by the mountains. At Sir-i-Khujoor, it narrows, and for ten miles runs in sharp angles, from 150 to 200 yards in length. Towards its termination, there is not more than sufficient breadth for a dozen horsemen between the rocks, which rise like walls to a great height on either side. The road is formed of loose pebbly stones and sand, like the beach of the sea. "The minutest description," Captain Conolly observes, "could hardly convey a just idea of its strength: it is a defile which a regiment of brave men could defend against an army." Sir Alexander Burnes remarks that the pass runs through the country of the Beahavees, who are masters of the fate of any army attempting to traverse it. In the rainy season, he states, it forms the channel of a mountain torrent, and is impracticable.
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in June at Candahar, and its vicinity, and then prepared for the march to Cabool. But in the meantime the troops were not altogether idle, for a force under the command of Brigadier Sale, was detached against Gerishk, a place of great strength and importance, occupied by the Sirdars of Candahar. This place was invested and carried, and garrisoned by British troops. The army then proceeded on its march to Cabool, and in the course of it the troops were exposed to great difficulties, and had to undergo many privations; but they at length, on the 21st of July, arrived before that fortress, so celebrated in ancient Asi. atic history, as the place whence former conquerors issued for the subjection of Hindostan, and now more celebrated for the brilliant triumph afforded to the British army—I mean the fort of Ghuznee. I am sure that hon. Gentlemen must be aware that this place was the cradle of one of the great Mahomedan monarchies, the founder of which overran India, and the exploits of Mahmoud. the Ghazne-side, must be familiar to the readers of Gibbon. This fortress, formidable from its natural situation, and still more so from the labour bestowed on it, was regarded by the natives as almost impregnable. One monarch attacked it with an immense force, and it was upwards of two years before he could gain possession of it. Nadir Shah was ten months besieging it before he reduced it, and Ahmed Shah the grandfather of the present Shah Shooja-ool-Moolk passed by it without venturing on a siege. This fortress, which made such resistance to former armies, was taken in two hours and a half. Such was the irresistible intrepidity of our troops. The House is aware of the gallantry displayed on this occasion by our army—of the promptitude and skill manifested by the General commanding, Sir John Keane, and of the comparatively small loss which attended this capture. I need hardly dwell on the success that attended this brilliant achievement, for it seems to have had the effect of at once breaking the power of Dost Mahomed Khan, the ruler against whom the expedition was directed, and who had fixed all his hopes on the strength of this fortress He had placed in it a garrison of 3,500 soldiers under the command of his son, Mahomed Hyder, with abundance of ammunition, and provisions. He had also got together a well-appointed force of about 13,000 men, under his eldest son, which he intended should afford aid for the relief of the place in case of ne-

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cessity, and which was encamped at a few miles distant. In the fortress itself he had deposited a portion of his treasure, and he evidently felt convinced that the possession of this strong place would save him; and such might have been the result of a failure on our part, at least for a time. But immediately on the news of the fall of Ghuznee, he was deserted by the greater portion of his partisans, and was obliged to fly precipitately, with comparatively few followers, whilst the troops, at the head of which he had so lately been, hastened to offer their allegiance to his rival. The army then advanced upon Cabool, and Shah Shooja-ool-Moolk entered his long lost capital without resistance, on the seventh of August. But, besides the combinations and movements which I have described, the Governor-general deemed it advisable that an auxiliary force should advance by another route, and thus afford a diversion, and distract the attention of the enemy. This was effected by sending a body of troops from Peshawar, under the command of Colonel Wade, who was accompanied by the Shazadah Timour, the eldest son of Shah Shooja. The force was comparatively small, but it accomplished its object, took the fortress of Ali Musjid, and opened the celebrated Khyber Pass, which had never before been forced. This operation drove Mahomed Ukbar-Khan, a son of Dost Mahomed, from Jelalabad, and facilitated the advance of Colonel Wade from the eastward of Cabool to join the main army in that capital. Thus this portion of the expedition was as successful as the other divisions, and afforded important aid to the general success. But in order to show that the Governor-general and Sir John Keane, who acted under the orders of the Governor-general, had made every arrangement that the army should not be without support in the case of any reverse, I will mention the different stations in which, as the army advanced, garrisons were left. The line of the Indus was secured—one regiment was left at Kurrachee—two regiments at Tatta—at Bukkur and Shikapore, from three to four regiments—at Dadur, half a regiment—at Quetta, a brigade and a large magazine—at Gerishk, a regiment, and from two to three regiments of infantry, with cavalry and artillery, were kept at Candahar, while the remainder of the army advanced into Cabool. Thus, if any great disaster had befallen the army in defiling through the Bolan Pass, or any other of the difficult positions through which it had to pass, it would have been
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able to fall back on the reserves, at any of these forts. But not only provision was made by reserves of troops, but large supplies of grain and other provisions were deposited at various stations. A great number of camels were also provided to accompany the army for the conveyance of tents, utensils, and provisions, &c, and amounted at one time to not less than 27,000. I may also mention in this place, that at one period of the advance one division of the army was accompanied with not less than 30,000 camp followers. The army marched through this country almost by chart and compass, for the districts it passed through had been visited by few, except in ancient days, and were very little known. I will mention very shortly, in order to give Gentlemen some notion of the distance that was traversed by our armies, the extent of the march of each division before reaching the end of their career. The Bengal column, from the time that it left Ferozepore to its arrival at Cabool, marched not less than 1,350 miles; the Bombay column marched upwards of 1,000 miles; while the detachment—for I can hardly call it a column—. under Colonel Wade, marched 680 miles, and in about nine months, all these forces in the early part of September were collected in the neighbourhood of Cabool. In order to secure the success of this expedition, we have the declaration in another place of the greatest military authority in the world, we have, I say, the authority of the Duke of Wellington, for asserting, that never was more adequate provision made for all the contingencies which could have occurred, and I will now shortly detail what the Governor-general did to support this great military movement, and to preserve our Indian possessions against attacks from other quarters. In the course of twelve months the army, European and native, was augmented to the amount of 50,000 of all arms. In order, also, to provide for the troops which had been detached from the Bengal and Bombay presidencies to form the army of the Indus, Lord Auckland ordered a number of regiments from Madras to be detached as follows. To Bombay, he ordered seven regiments of native infantry, one regiment of the Queen's troops, one regiment of native cavalry, one company of sappers and miners, one troop of horse artillery, together with some foot artillery. He also directed, that they should detach from Madras to Bengal four regiments of native infantry, and a brigade of guns. And. not only did he

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make this provision for the expedition to the westward of the Indus, but he also provided against dangers which appeared to threaten the east of India, and ordered an additional force to be sent from Madras to Moulmein, of the Queen's 62nd regiment and a regiment of native troops. At the same time a force was collected along the Nepalese frontier, and we were thus prepared against external aggression at all parts of the Indian empire. But the attention of Lord Auckland was directed equally to those Mahratta chieftains and Rajpoot princes who had given signs of disaffection, and a body of troops was ordered to march against Maun Singh, of Joudpoor. It fortunately happened, that this individual was not hostilely disposed, but still he occupied some attention and was the cause of anxiety, and I mention this to show the claims of the Governor-general to the approbation of the House for the preparations he had made, under circumstances of no little embarrassment. It is not for me now to give an opinion of the policy of the Governor-general, but I think that I have stated sufficient to justify me in calling upon the House to come to an unanimous vote of thanks to him for the part which he took in those military arrangements. I do so, then, with confidence, and I shall pass to another resolution, about which I can have no doubt, namely, the thanks of this House to the General Commanding, and to the brave officers and soldiers who formed the army of the Indus. I am sure hon. Gentlemen have read what has been said of these soldiers by some of our fellow-countrymen of the highest authority on military subjects. I just now alluded to the great man whose opinion I quoted; and who may personally know many of the officers engaged in those operations, and is, I believe, intimately acquainted with the general who carried them into effect. Such testimony renders superfluous all comment from me, and I hope that the House will not think that I am deviating from the reservation that I made, of not alluding to the policy of these proceedings, if I refer to the results of the expedition. That result has been of such importance, as those unacquainted with Indian affairs can scarcely comprehend. In Europe the effect has been very great, and almost unexampled, for victory achieved at such distance and under such circumstances. In India it has, for the present at least, tranquillized the whole of that immense territory. It has put a stop to the intrigues
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of many who had been long watching for opportunities to disturb the peace of the empire. It has arrested the proceedings,—the cause of much anxiety—of the sovereign of Nepaul. It has calmed, for the present at least, the angry usurper of Ava.—The success has been as signal as it has been complete.—I shall not attempt to awaken schoolboy recollections of these famous scenes connected with the most romantic of all the exploits of the most marvellous of ancient conquerors—but I may perhaps be pardoned for reminding those who are familiar with the historian that has preserved the Journal of Nearchus, that the very stations on which the British flag is now flying, were the resting places of the great Alexander, and that, since his days, the standard of no civilized nation has been seen on the banks of the Indus. We may be allowed to dwell on this bold and brilliant achievement—and most pleasing is it, instead of the conflicts of party and struggles for political power, to he enabled to direct our attention to subjects of national interest, and to unite in doing justice to those who have upheld the honour and renown of the British empire and the British army. It has long been the proud distinction of our nation—a distinction which can only belong to a free people—to share with the Sovereign the satisfaction of showing gratitude to those who have deserved well of their country—and I feel sure, that, on this occasion, we shall appreciate the triumphs and the toils of the brave men now brought to our notice. On this occasion it is most satisfactory to me to find the warmest support from those who in politics are opposed to the party to which I belong, and to the party to which, I may say, the Governor-general of India belongs; and on this part of the subject I trust the House will excuse me for reading a short extract from a periodical publication, opposed on every other point but this to the Government:—
"In a military point of view, the expedition to Affghanistan is one of the most memorable events of modern times. For the first time since the days of Alexander the Great, a civilized army has penetrated the mighty barrier of deserts and mountains which separates Persia from Hindostan; and the prodigy has been exhibited to an astonished world of a remote island in the European seas pushing forward its mighty arms into the heart of Asia, and carrying its victorious standards into the strong, holds of Mahomedan faith and the cradle of the Mogul Empire. Neither the intricate streams of the Punjab, nor the rapid flow of the

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Indus, nor the waterless mountains of Affghan-istan, nor the far-famed bastions of Ghuznee, have been able to arrest our course. For the first time in the history of the world the tide of conquest has flown up from Hindostan into Central Asia; the European race has asserted its wonted superiority over the Asiatic; reversing the march of Timour and Alexander, the sable battalions of the Ganges have appeared as conquerors on the frontiers of Persia, and on the confines of the steppes of Samarcand. So marvellous and unprecedented an event is indeed fitted to awaken the contemplation of every thoughtful mind. It speaks volumes as to the mighty step made by the human race in the last five hundred years, and indicates the vast agency and unbounded effects of that free spirit, of which Britain is the centre, which has thus, for a season at least, inverted the heretofore order of nature, made the natives of Hindostan appear as victors in the country of Gengis Khan, and brought the standards of civilized Europe, though in the inverse order, into the footsteps of the phalanx of Alexander."
With this animated and not much exaggerated eulogium on our recent triumphs, I conclude what I have ventured to address to the House, and propose—
"1. That the thanks of this House be given to the right hon. George Earl of Auckland, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Governor-general of the British Possessions in the East Indies, for the judgment and ability with which the resources of the British Empire in India have been recently applied, under his direction, in aid of the military operations to the westward of the Indus.
"2. That the thanks of this House be given to Lieut-general Lord Keane, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Military Order of the Bath, for his meritorious conduct in the command of the forces employed to the westward of the Indus; and more particularly for the energy and promptitude with which he planned and directed the assault of the city and fortress of Ghuznee, the success of which brilliant achievement highly contributed to the honour of the British army, and to the rapid accomplishment of the enterprise in which they were engaged.
"3. That the thanks of this House be given to Major-general Sir Willoughby Cotton, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Military Order of the Bath, and to the several officers of the army, both European and Native, for their good conduct and gallant exertions during the late operations to the westward of the Indus.
"4. That this House doth highly approve and acknowledge the discipline and patient perseverance displayed by the non-commissioned officers and private soldiers, both European and Native, during a long and painful march through an untried country; and doth also
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highly approve and acknowledge their undaunted courage at the assault and capture of Ghuznee.
"5. That this resolution be signified to them by the commanders of the several corps.
"6. That the said resolutions be transmitted by the Speaker to the Governor-general of India; and that his Lordship be requested to communicate the same to the several officers referred to therein."
Sir R. Peelcould not deny himself the satisfaction of confirming the truth of the statement, that no difference of political opinion could for a moment induce any political party to withhold the expression of their satisfaction at the success of the British army, and their admiration of the valour and perseverance of those by whom that success had been achieved. He considered it a subject of the highest congratulation to the House and to the country, that now, after an interval of peace of not fewer than twenty-five years, after our armies had been so long without any actual experience in the field, he considered it highly gratifying that our soldiers had shown themselves so worthy of their predecessors in arms, and so fitted to support the military reputation of their country. Whether it was twenty-eight men, or twenty-one thousand, that were engaged, the martial spirit of the British troops was still the same as it was on the eve of the Battle of Waterloo. The troops had not only displayed the greatest personal valour, but there appeared to have been an exhibition of patience, of fortitude, of perseverance under difficulties, which, at least, equally with their personal valour, merited the warmest thanks of the House. It might appear presumptuous in him, an unprofessional man, to add his voice to the tribute of admiration which had been expressed by military authorities, but still, even to military men, the declaration of a civilian that as far as he could judge, the military had performed their duty in the noblest and ablest manner, could not be altogether unwelcome. So far, then, as the conduct of the army was concerned, he could concur in the vote of thanks to the fullest extent. Upon the policy out of which the expedition, upon the state of the finances affected by it, and upon the results, he conceived himself, and, indeed, he was fully justified by the right hon. Gentleman, in reserving his opinion. When the right hon. Gentleman told the House that an army of 8,000 men upon its march was

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accompanied by 16,000 camp followers; when he told the House, that 27,000 camels were necessary for the baggage attached to that army, and that the full military force was accompanied by a body of 30,000 followers, he should like to see the bill of this march, before he pronounced an opinion upon the advantages to be derived. He had not expected from the notice of the right hon. Gentleman, that the vote was to include the thanks to the Governor-general, and in sanctioning that vote, he must distinctly declare that he limited the expression of his gratitude to the services immediately connected with the military operations, and it would be uncandid in him not to say that he had doubts as to the policy of including civil officers, whatever their merits, in the expression of a gratitude which had reference to military operations alone. These were doubts which were shared by very high authorities. It was quite true, that the thanks of the House were given to Lord Wellesley for the share he had in the military operations in India, when he was Governor-general there; but Lord Wellesley acted as Captain-general of the forces, and placed himself at the head of the expedition. Upon another occasion, when thanks were voted to Lord Wellesley, Mr. Fox remarked that he considered it a new principle to propose a vote of thanks for military successes to any but those who had been actively engaged, and indeed, Mr. Fox went so far as to say that he did not think Lord Wellesley would be very much gratified at the expression of admiration, but, on the contrary, would laugh when he read that the House of Commons had recorded their gratitude for the share he had taken in the military operations. In making these remarks he begged it to be understood that he did not at all undervalue the ability which Lord Auckland had displayed in forming the arrangements. All he wished to express was his doubt of the policy of including civil officers in a vote of thanks for military operations. In the case of Lord Amherst, who made all the preparations for the invasion of Burmah, although every praise was conceded to his prudence and foresight, his name was not included in any vote of thanks. Yet the reward which that noble Lord had received, in being created an Earl, left no doubt as to the approbation which his services had met with at the hands of his Sovereign find his country. The services of Lord
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Wellesley stood on special and peculiar grounds. Being most anxious, however, that nothing of a disagreeable nature, or appearing like opposition, should appear on this occasion, he would not object to including Lord Auckland in the vote of thanks, but he had thought it his duty to state his doubts upon the principle of the matter. His judgment on the general question of policy he would repeat, he would take leave to reserve. So far as the military operations were concerned, there never was an occasion on which the thanks of a British Parliament to a British army were more amply deserved.
Mr. Mucaulaycould not refrain from expressing his high gratification at the unanimity of the House on this very interesting occasion, and at the manner especially in which the right hon. Baronet had expressed himself in reference to the conduct of the British in India. It was not his intention to enter into any of the political questions which might be considered in connection with this expedition, but he wished to make a remark upon what had fallen from the right hon, Baronet in reference to Lord Auckland. The right hon. Gentleman had omitted all mention of a case of the highest importance—the case of Lord Minto—to whom, after the reduction of Java, the thanks of the House were awarded for the part which he had taken in superintending the military arrangements; nor was the right hon. Baronet correct in supposing that Lord Wellesley had only received the thanks of Parliament as Captain-general, since he also received the thanks of the House in connection with the taking of Seringapatam, when he did not act as Captain-general. He quite conceded to the right hon. Baronet the right, and he fully admitted the propriety, of reserving his opinion as to the general policy under which the expedition took place, till the results were known; but his own conviction was, that this great event would be found, in its results, highly conducive to the prosperous state of our finances in India, and that, as a measure of economy, it would be found not less deserving of praise than it confessedly was in a military point of view. He could hear witness to some of the circumstances to which his right hon. Friend had alluded. Among many peculiarities of our Indian empire there was no one more remarkable than this—that the people whom we governed there were a people whose estimate of our power sometimes far exceeded the truth, and sometimes fell far short of it.

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They knew nothing of our resources; they | were ignorant of our geographical position; they knew nothing of the political condition or of the relative power of any of the European states. They saw us come and go, but it was upon an element with which they were not acquainted, and which they held in horror. It was no exaggeration to state that not merely the common people, but the upper classes—nay, even the ministers of the native provinces—were, almost without exception, so profoundly ignorant of European affairs that they could not tell whether the King of the French or the Duke of Modena was the greatest potentate. Further, lie could tell the House this—when he was in India there was a restless, unquiet feeling existing in the minds of our subjects, neighbours, and subsidiary allies—a disposition to look forward to some great change, to some approaching revolution; to think that the power of England was no longer what it had been proved to he in former times. There was a disposition to war on the part of Ava and other states; on every side, in short, there had prevailed a feeling in the public mind in India, which, unchecked, might have led the way to great calamities; but this great event, this great triumph at Ghuznee, acted so signally by the British troops, had put down, with a rapidity hardly ever known in history, this restless aud uneasy feeling; and there never was a period at which the opinion of our valour and skill, and what was of equal importance, the confidence in our "star" was higher than it now was in India. He believed that the right hon. Baronet opposite would find reason to think that all the expense incurred by these thousands of camels and thousands of troops was sound and profitable economy. He had seen something of the brave men who defended our Indian empire, and it had been matter of great delight to him to see the warm attachment to their country and their countrymen which animated them in that distant land, and which added a ten-fold force to the zeal and vigour with which they performed their arduous duties. While he was on this point, let him remark that there was a disposition in that gallant service to imagine that they were not sufficiently appreciated at home to think that the Indian service was not so highly considered in England as other services not less able, nor performed with less jeopardy, in other countries. It was extraordinary to see the interest, with what gratification, the smallest scrap, the merest line, in an English newspaper, conveying any praise en
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this service was received by them, and their delight would be extreme when they came to read the vote of thanks which had been conferred on them unanimously by the House of Lords, and which he trusted would be passed as unanimously by the House of Commons, the more especially accompanied as it was by the testimony to their merits borne by the greatest general that England ever produced. At the same time that this well-merited tribute conferred the highest pleasure on the brave men who shared in the expedition, it would serve as a powerful inducement to every other man in that gallant service to expose himself to every peril and every privation when the interests of the empire required it.
Sir R. Jenkinssaid, that as Chairman of the East India Company, he could not give a silent vote on this occasion, though, after the speeches of the right hon. Gentlemen who had preceded him, there remained very little for him to say. Considering the difficulties under which the expedition was undertaken, there was hardly any person who had not felt very great anxiety as to the result; but every step which the troops made in their progress tended to remove this anxiety, and it was soon felt, that the zeal, and bravery and steady perseverance of the British army, would bring the campaign to a triumphant issue; the whole course of their successes appeared to have been exempt from the usual vicissitudes of war. Mighty armies fled before a mere handful of men; fortresses deemed impregnable had fallen as if by magic, before the skill of our officers and the bravery of our soldiers; victory had followed our standard were defeat was confidently anticipated. The army of India had few opportunities of meeting the enemy in the field, but they had to perform one of the most extraordinary actions in military history; an action more brilliant, more seasonable, more decisive than the capture of Ghuznee had rarely been accomplished. Our Indian service had always looked to the approbation of Parliament and of the country, as its highest reward, and never had a service more entitled itself to such thanks. Never had there been a military exploit of so complicated a nature, and carried to such a distance from the base of its resources, which had so completely answered to the conception on which it was founded; and never had there been a military exploit in which every individual

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concerned in it, from the Governor-general down to the soldier and sepoy in the ranks, had more richly merited the gratitude of Parliament.
Sir H. Hardingecould not refrain from expressing the high approbation which he entertained at the conduct of the Indian army, commanded by a gallant, and now noble, Friend of his. Even before the advance on Ghuznee—even before they had accomplished that brilliant exploit— the conduct of the army had been meritorious in the most eminent degree. The privations and labour it had undergone were of the most trying description. Nor was the merit of endurance under severe privation, and admirable conduct and subordination due only to the British soldiers in this army. In these great military virtues, the British soldiers had been nobly emulated by the Sepoys, whose conduct in every respct and throughout the expedition had been such as to advance them greatly in the estimation of the officers. The capture of Ghuznee was effected by a rare combination of science and skill; science and skill which were doubly worthy of praise, inasmuch as they had saved the effusion of blood to a very considerable extent. The walls were too high to escalade; the ditch too deep to be forded; the artillery not able to batter a breach; but all these great obstacles were overcome by the scientific attainments of Captain, now most deservedly Major, Thompson, who by a plan, most simple in its nature, that of throwing bags of gunpowder against the only practicable entrance, the Cabool gate, opened a way for the admission of the British troops. In blowing open that gate, but one death occurred, and the whole operation only cost us the lives of 200 men. With respect to the plan adopted by Major Thompson, without in the least detracting from the merit of that gallant officer in its admirable and most effective application, he (Sir H. Hardinge) could not help pointing out that the invention of this plan was due to Colonel Pasley, of the engineers, com-mandmant at Chatham, to whom the Ordnance department, and the public in general, were so much indebted. Of this gallant officer, Major Thompson had been a worthy pupil, and had known how to apply the invention to the readiest and most effectual account. The right lion, and gallant Member concluded by expressing his hope that the late triumphs of the British arms would have a salutary
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effect upon our subjects and tributaries in India.
Sir H. Viviansaid, that his long and intimate friendship and near connection with his noble and gallant Friend under whose orders the army had acted would not allow him to give a silent vote. The right hon. Baronet opposite hesitated whether to include the noble Lord at the head of the Government of India in the vote of thanks, but it should be remembered, that it was by Lord Auckland that all the arrangements of this expedition were prepared, and in another place the highest approbation of those arrangments had been expressed by that great man who had so often led our armies to victory, and who had distinguished himself as a soldier beyond all other men. He could not but think Lord Auckland fully entitled to the thanks of Parliament. With regard to the noble and gallant Lord who had led forth our army in India to triumph, he had been in constant communication with that noble and gallant Lord, and, in his various communications, had learnt the many and great difficulties with which he had had to contend, and he could not express to the House in stronger terms what these difficulties had been, than by reading an extract he had received from Lord Keane, dated Candahar, June 26th. It was as follows:—
"When that which had been required for us in the Scinde was concluded, I was desired to push forward in command of the force styled the Army of the Indus, and make such arrangements as I deemed necessary for the invasion of Affghanistan. Time was on the wing, and admitted of no delay. I felt the measure was a bold one; I knew I had a distance of 300 miles, through a bleak, an ill-supplied, and a strong country, between me and this place, but I felt to go was necessary. The order to advance was in my pocket; I had the utmost confidence in the troops, and go I did. Whatever were the obstacles and difficulties I had to apprehend, I hesitated not to move on, with stout hearts and without a murmur on the part of the men. We overcame all impediments, and walked an efficient force up to those towers of which we gained possession on the 26th of April. Had the Scindes faced us in the field, they would have been punished for their temerity. The troops desired nothing better than a fair fight, having marched so far for it."
With respect to Ghuznee, it was unnecessary for him to enter into any details, but there was one point, and a very important point, which had not been alluded

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to;—namely, the conduct of the troops after they had forced their way into the place. That conduct did them the highest honour. There was no instance of improper conduct, of complaint to the commander-in-chief, and females had been respected to the utmost possible extent, a circumstance almost unprecedented, and which entitled the troops to the highest praise. It was with great delight that he found his noble and gallant Friend uphold the character he had obtained under the great captain of this country.
Mr. Humehad much pleasure in concurring in this vote, and he looked back with great satisfaction upon the manner in which the whole expedition had been conducted. He believed that it was an expedition more likely to be beneficial to India than any which had previously taken place. Having seen the lamentable results of inefficient attempts to carry out great arrangements, he thought the conduct of Lord Auckland was marked by the greatest wisdom, inasmuch as he had assembled an overwhelming power to carry his design into execution. Besides, much of the success of the expedition was owing to the ample manner in which the necessary supplies had been provided. He had served thirty-five years ago in India, with some of those regiments which appeared to have distinguished themselves, and he knew that it was a matter of complaint among such men that their brave and gallant actions were not sufficiently valued at home. He believed the Indian army had not received the full meed of approbation for their gallant conduct; and he was therefore gratified by the unanimous vote of approval which the House was about to pass. He thought Lord Auckland's conduct eminently entitled him to be included in the vote. With regard to the anxiety of the right hon. Baronet opposite to know the state of the revenue, he was satisfied that when the accounts were produced, heavy as they must be, yet, considering the effect produced upon the whole of India, the expense would be found in reality enonomical.
Sir De Lacy Evansrose to express his entire concurrence in the vote, at which he felt much gratified. With regard to the expediency including the Governor-general in the vote, he had only one observation to make. He had the honour of listening to the illustrious Duke, whose authority was admitted on all hands to be the
1340
highest that could possibly be alluded to, when he was expressing himself upon this subject. In the warm and strong expression of his approbation and admiration for the conduct of the expedition, the noble Duke's expression had been at least as strong, if not stronger, in reference to the Governor-general, than to the general officers, or troops concerned in it. If there was no precedent for including the Governor-general in the vote, this was a very good time to establish one, for there never was a time when the good conduct of a Governor-general or of a civil authority was more conspicuous.
Sir Robert Peelshould be sorry to do injustice to Lord Auckland. He should regret if it were supposed that he had expressed any doubt of the zeal or activity of Lord Auckland. He only doubted the policy, upon principle, of including a civilian in a vote of thanks to military authorities. He objected to including the Governor-general, as he should object to including a Secretary of State. For instance, Lord Bathurst, by his attention to military supplies, might have been largely instrumental in obtaining the successes in the Peninsula; but he should have objected to including him in such a vote of thanks, on the general principle that a civilian ought not to be included in thanks to officers for a military exploit. He did not doubt the personal good conduct of Lord Auckland, or that he had been distinguished by the utmost attention to those preparations which fell within his province.
Sir J. C. Hobhousesaid it was quite unnecessary for him to say a word, after the unanimous approbation with which the proposal had been received. He would not have risen, but that the hon. Gentleman seemed to imply that he had himself expressed some doubt of the policy of Lord Auckland. He had not expressed any doubt of the kind. It was his intention to have said, that if ever the opportunity should occur, he would be prepared to take his share in the defence of the policy of the expedition.
First and second resolutions carried unanimously.
Upon the third resolution, conveying the thanks of the House to Major-General Sir Willoughby Cotton and the other officers, being put,
Sir Henry Hardingesaid he thought he heard the right hon. Gentleman speak of Brigadier-General Sale by the title of

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brigadier-general. He believed that gallant officer had led the storming party at Ghuznee, and distinguished himself, as he always did, in a most eminent manner. He believed it was the usual practice to thank general officers by name, and therefore begged to know whether the name of Brigadier-General Sale was to be included in the resolution. He did not know whether he was in order; but he was obliged to advert to the point now, because the resolutions had not been made known to the House, as he thought they ought to have been, before that night.
Sir J. C. Hobhousesaid he had originally intended to include the names of all the general officers, not only that of Brigadier-General Sale, but those of General Wilshire and General Thackwell, but he was afraid of making some mistake by leaving out the name of any officer who might be entitled to be mentioned. He thought it safer, therefore, to put only the name of the second in command.
Sir Henry Hardingesaid that after the battle of Waterloo all general officers had been thanked by name. He attached great importance to the point. Every officer, under the circumstances, thought it a high honour to himself and his family to have his name mentioned, and he should therefore, strongly recommend that the resolution should include the names of all the general officers present at the capture of Ghuznee, or within hearing of the guns.
Sir J. C. Hobhousesaid there would be an inconvenience in making a distinction between the votes of that House and those come to by the House of Lords. Every one must have been aware of the nature of the resolutions from having seen those agreed to by the House of Lords. It would not answer to include in the resolution the names of those only who had been present at Ghuznee, because the resolutions applied to all concerned in the expedition.
Sir R. Peelthought it would be awkward to come to a different conclusion from the House of Lords. At the same time, to draw a distinction between truly brilliant services, as those performed in India, and others performed in Europe, might create dissatisfaction. Perhaps the better course would be, first to follow the precedent of the House of Lords, in passing these resolutions, and afterwards that both Houses should specifically mention the names of the general officers.
The third and other resolutions unanimously agreed to.

SOCIALISM.—CASE OF MR. PARE.
—Lord Ashleysaid that, with a view of saving the time of the House, he would take the liberty of putting a question to the noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies. He wished to know whether a rumour which prevailed was correct, that Mr. Pare had ceased to hold the office of superintendent registrar of the town of Birmingham.
Lord John Russellsaid that Mr. Pare had tendered his resignation of the office of superintendent registrar of Birmingham. That resignation had been accepted, and Mr. Pare had ceased to hold the office.
Lord Ashleysaid, that Mr. Pare having ceased to hold the office, he would not at present bring forward the motion of which he had given notice. He must be allowed to say, however, that if Mr. Pare were guilty, the Government ought to have passed sentence on his conduct, and if he were not guilty they ought to have supported him. He should take the liberty of bringing the whole subject under the notice of the House at an early period.
Mr. Warburtonrose, but
The Speakerbegged to remind the hon. Gentleman that there was no question before the House.
Mr. Warburton: Then I move the adjournment of the House. The hon. Member said, that the noble Lord was not contented with asking a question and receiving an answer, but proceeded to make an observation with regard to Mr. Pare. He (Mr. Warburton) should therefore now state what had come to his knowledge of the character of Mr. Pare. A petition had been presented by Mr. Pare respecting his conduct, which had been the subject of observation in another place. The character of an individual was at stake, and if this opportunity were not taken of justifying Mr. Pare, as far as his conduct admitted of justification, the opportunity would be lost. It would go forth to the world that he had resigned his situation, and that no observation had been made upon the mode in which the circumstance had taken place ["Order, order."] He would stand on his right to make this observation ["Order" and "cheers."]
The Speaker: The hon. Member has moved the adjournment of the House. I apprehend that making that motion does not entitle him to go into observations on another subject.
Mr. S. O'Brienbelieved that this was the first time the House had shown an indisposition to hear the defence of an individual who had been openly assailed in the House.
Lord Ashleycould assure the hon. Member for Bridport, that he had not said a word against Mr. Pare. He had merely said, hypothetically, that if Mr. Pare was guilty, the noble Lord should have dismissed him; and if not guilty, the noble Lord should have brought the whole force of the Government to support him.
Mr. Warburtonsaid the noble Lord had given notice of a motion upon the conduct of Mr. Pare. It was then announced that Mr. Pare had resigned, and no observation having been made upon that by the noble Lord, it would be left in doubt whether Mr. Pare was guilty or not. It would be the consummation of injustice to refuse to hear his defence. If he gave a notice on the subject, he could not tell when he might have an opportunity of bringing it before the House. In the meantime Mr. Pare's conduct would be subject to all the reflections that might be made. The hon. Member was proceeding, when
Sir George Clerkrose to order, and said it was totally contrary to the practice of the House to move an adjournment, and then proceed to make observations upon some other subject.
Mr. Warburtonwould not press the subject upon an unwilling House, but would call the attention of the House to the petition of Mr. Pare to-morrow.
Lord John Russellcould not help observing that the whole irregularity of this discussion was owing to the course taken by the noble Lord. If the noble Lord had contented himself with asking the question, there would have been no irregularity. But the noble Lord first rose at an irregular time, and then, not contented with getting an answer, he made an observation, that if Mr. Pare was guilty, he ought to have been dismissed, and if not, to be defended. Upon that arose the whole question. He did not take notice of the observation at the time, thinking it might lead to some discussion; but he denied that the noble Lord had a right to make any inference as to Mr. Pare being guilty or not guilty of any particular crime.— Subject dropped.

LIGHTING THE HOUSE.
Sir. F. Trenchsaid, he was about to address the House
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on a practical question, and one upon which he did not feel it necessary long to occupy the time of the House. He should wish, however, that, if possible, it should be discussed in a full House, as it was a subject in which all the hon. Members were interested. When the present mode of lighting the House had been first adopted, it had been suggested that time might be afforded for further experiments; that time had been afforded, and the House was now in a condition to pronounce its opinion as to the success of the experiments. He had taken great pains on that subject: he had incurred odium and obloquy, and some ridicule in consequence; but he should be amply rewarded if he were enabled to effect an improvement. The hon. and gallant Gentleman moved—" That the mode of lighting the House of Commons by wax candles, is preferable to the present manner of lighting, and that, therefore, the lustres and green shades be replaced forthwith."
Lord Eliotwould state one fact which he thought would induce the hon. and gallant Member to postpone his motion. Before they came to any decision, they ought to be afforded an opportunity of seeing the effect of the present light; but sufficient notice had not been given to Mr. Gurney, to enable him to complete his arrangements. He hoped that sufficient time would be given to complete those arrangements before the House came to any decision. He could accomplish all those arrangements during the Easter recess. He was acquainted with Mr. Gurney, and he was able to state that he was a man of talent and industry, and he should hope that the experiment would be fairly tried.
Mr. Humesaid, that Mr. Gurney had received very short notice to make the arrangements for lighting the House, but when sufficient time should be allowed him, there was no doubt that he would be able to remove any inconvenience which existed. There was one inconvenience which hon. Members must have noticed, namely, a sort of fog or mist which was sometimes perceived, but that arose not from the mode of lighting, but from the mode of ventilating the House, which filled the air with particles of dust, and rendered it unfit for respiration; it was caused by the House being ventilated from below. He hoped they would allow time to have the experiment fairly tried before they decided.
Mr. Warburton, wished that the experiment should be fairly made, and the hon. and gallant Officer could at any subsequent period renew his motion. He found the greatest relief from the new mode of lighting, for, instead of numerous candles glaring in his face, the light was now above, and the hat formed a shade for the eyes. It was desirable that as large a number of Members as possible, should pronounce their opinions upon the subject, and it was peculiarly desirable, that the Speaker should state his opinions, which were most important.
Mr. Benettsaid, he was a very old Member of the House, and was agreeably surprised, on first seeing the new light, to find, that though a little gloomy at first, on taking a paper of small print from his pocket, he found he had not been able to read for many years past, so well as on that occasion. He was perfectly satisfied, that this light was the best the House had yet tried. He should, therefore, vote at all events for a longer trial.
Mr. Briscoesaid, he was not so old a Member, nor was his sight so defective, though not so good as it had been. He felt it difficult to decide upon the subject, but was, on the whole, inclined to think he gave the preference to the present. With respect to the mist, he thought it did not arise from the light, but from the dust which arose from the numerous holes in the floor for the purpose of ventilation. There were gentlemen engaged in the gallery above, to whom the light and its effects were of the utmost consequence, and he had taken it upon himself to ask them their opinion respecting the present lights, and they were unanimous in its favour. He certainly would vote for the Bude light.
Colonel Salweyconsidered, that they were greatly indebted to the hon. and gallant Member, for his repeated attempts to enlighten the House. He thought
"'Twas sweet to view, from half-past five to six,
Their long wax-candles, with short cotton wicks,
Touch'd by the lamplighter's Promethean art,
Start into light, and make the lighter start."
Having seen it in that light, he should certainly support the hon. Member's wax-candle motion.
The House divided:—Ayes 69; Noes 50: Majority 19.

List of the AYES.

Alsager, Captain

Hurt, F.

Arbuthnott, hon. H.

Inglis, Sir R. H.

Ashley, Lord

Irton, S.

Attwood, W.

Jackson, Sergeant

Baillie, Colonel

Jermyn, Earl

Barneby, J.

Jones, J.

Barry, G. S.

Knight, H. G.

Bentinck, Lord G.

Lambton, H.

Boiling, W.

Liddell, hon. H. T.

Bowes, J.

Litton, E.

Bradshaw, J.

Lygon, hon. Gen.

Bridgeman, H.

Meynell, Captain

Broadley, H.

Morris, D.

Burrell, Sir C.

O'Ferrall, R. M.

Calcraft, J. H.

Packe, C. W.

Chapman, A.

Pakington, J. S.

Clerk, Sir G.

Perceval, Colonel

Clive, hon. R. H.

Polhill, F.

Cochrane, Sir T. J.

Praed, W. T.

Darby, G.

Pringle, A.

Dick, Q.

Rae, rt. hon. Sir W.

Dowdeswell, W.

Round, J.

Duncombe, hon. W.

Rushbrooke, Colonel

Duncombe, hon. A.

Salwey, Colonel

Ellis, J.

Scarlett, hon. J. Y.

Filmer, Sir E.

Shaw, rt. hon. F.

Gaskell, J. M.

Sheppard, T.

Gordon, R.

Shirley, E. J.

Gore, O. W.

Smyth, Sir G. H.

Goulburn, rt. hon. H.

Somerset, Lord G.

Graham, Sir J.

Troubridge, Sir E. T

Grimsditch, T.

Vere, Sir C. B.

Hodgson, R.

Verner, Colonel

Hope, hon. C.

TELLERS.

Hotham, Lord

Trench, Sir F.

Houldsworth, T.

Fremantle, Sir T.

List of the NOES.

Aglionby, Major

Langdale, hon. C.

Baines, E.

Lincoln, Earl of

Baring, rt. hon. F. T.

Macaulay, rt. hn.T.B.

Barnard, E. G.

Maule, hon. F.

Beamish, F. B.

Morpeth, Viscount

Benett, J.

Muntz, G. F.

Blake, M. J.

Muskett, G. A.

Briscoe, J. I,

Norreys, Sir D. J.

Brodie, W. B.

Ord, W.

Brotherton, J.

Pigot, D. R.

Bruges, W. H.

Pusey, P.

Busfeild, W.

Rickford, W.

Clay, W.

Rolleston, L.

Crompton, Sir S.

Russell, Lord J.

Currie, R.

Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.

Duke, Sir J.

Smith, B.

Eliot, Lord

Staunton, Sir G. T.

Elliot, hon. J. E.

Style, Sir C.

Evans, W.

Teignmouth, Lord

Fenton, J.

Turner, E.

Finch,F.

Wallace, R.

Greg, R. H.

Ward, H. G.

Greig, D.

White, A.

Hughes, W. B.

Winnington, Sir T. E,

1347

TELLERS

Wyse, T.

Hume, J.

Yates, J. A.

Warburton, H.

HIGHWAYS OVER BRIDGES.
Mr. Barnebymoved for leave to bring in a bill "to remove from counties the expense and liability of repairing the highways over bridges, and the 300 feet next adjoining to any ends of the same."
Lord G. Somersetopposed the motion. If the expense of repairing such highways should be taken from the counties, it must necessarily be imposed on private individuals or parishes. To such a proposal he should strenuously object, as, instead of localising such expenses, they should rather be disposed to generalise them.
Sir C. Burrellsaid, that until they should see how the railroads would answer, they ought not to suffer the common road-trusts to fall totally into neglect.
Mr. Jonessaid, that most of the highway-trusts through the country were insolvent. He thought that a county should be the smallest space that ought to be rated for the repair of those roads.
The House divided:—Ayes 17; Noes 52: Majority 35.

List of the AYES.

Aglionby, Major

Eliot, Lord

Bowes, J.

Evans, W.

Dowdeswell, W.

Jackson, Sergeant

1348

Lambton, H.

Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.

Litton, E.

Turner, E.

Lygon, hon. General

Verner, Colonel

Maule, hon. F.

Winnington, Sir T.E.

Perceval, Colonel

TELLERS.

Pigot, D. R.

Barneby, J.

Shaw, rt. hon. F.

Darby, G.

List of the NOES.

Barnard, E. G.

Hurt, F.

Blair, J.

Irton, S.

Bolling, W.

Jones, J.

Bridgeman, H.

Langdale, hon. C.

Briscoe, J. I.

Mahon, Viscount

Broadley, H.

Morris, D.

Brotherton, J.

Muntz, G. F.

Bruges, W. H. L.

O'Brien, C.

Busfeild, W.

Ord, W.

Crompton, Sir S.

Packe, C. W.

Currie, R.

Power, J.

De Horsey, S. H.

Rickford, W.

Duke, Sir J.

Rolleston, L.

Duncombe, hon. W.

Rushbrooke, Colonel

Duncombe, hon. A.

Salwey, Colonel

Filmer, Sir E.

Scarlett hon. J. Y.

Finch, F.

Sheppard, T.

Gordon, R.

Smyth, Sir G. H.

Goulburn, rt. hon. H.

Somerset, Lord G.

Graham, rt. hon.Sir J.

Style, Sir C.

Greig, D.

Vere, Sir C. B.

Grimsditch, T.

Wallace, R.

Hawes, B.

Warburton, H.

Hodgson, R.

White, A.

Houldsworth, T.

Hughes, W. B.

TELLERS.

Hume, J.

Burrell, Sir C

Humphery, J.

Baines, E.

Leave refused.