Commons Sitting of 8 August 1840

MINUTES.
Bill. Read a third time:—Coal Duties (London).
Petitions presented. By Mr. Hume, from Norfolk, Droitwich, and other places, for the Release of Political Offenders.—By Mr. Warbrrton, from Coombe, complaining of an Infringement of the Right of Common by the Scholars of King's College, Cambridge.—By the Attorney-General, from Prisoners confined for Debt in York Castle, for Relief.

ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS.
Lord J. Russell,in moving that the House do agree to the Lords' amendments to the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill (No. 1), said that one of those amendments he much regretted, as it made the release of the party imprisoned dependent on the payment of the debt and costs. He thought that one amendment by their Lordships, which extended the benefits of the bill to persons who had been six months in custody, was an improvement, but he repeated that it was with regret he saw the other amendment to which he had just alluded. However, as the principle of the bill was a good one, and empowered the Ecclesiascal Court to discharge persons in custody for contempt under particular circumstances, he would not ask the House to dissent from their Lordships' amendment.
Mr. T. Duncombedid not rise to oppose the motion of the noble Lord. He agreed With him in thinking, that the extending the jurisdiction of the court to cases where parties had been imprisoned for six months was an improvement in the bill.
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John Thorogood would be enabled to avail himself of the bill in that respect, for he had been more than three times six months in prison. He much regretted the other amendment which made the discharge dependent upon payment of the debt and costs; it was a shame that a bill which went to establish a good principle should be made dependent on a question of pounds, shillings, and pence— a matter of filthy lucre. Yet, even as it was, he looked upon the bill as a matter of triumph for John Thorogood and those who concurred with him on the principle of church-rate. It did indeed give a "heavy blow and great discouragement" to the collection of church-rate. He looked upon the whole of this prosecution as a cowardly affair, because it was well known that there were thousands of John Thorogoods in large and populous manufacturing towns, who refused to pay this rate, but no proceedings were taken against them. The proceedings were commenced in a rural district against a man who had been known to take an active part in parochial affairs. This, he thought, was altogether unworthy of the Church. However, after this he supposed the House would not oppose the motion of which an hon. Friend of his had given notice for next session for the total abolition of this rate.
Sir E. Sugdendenied that the Church had anything to do with the imprisonment of John Thorogood. He was in prison because he refused to appear to a citation in the Ecclesiastical Court, over which the Church had no control whatever.
Amendments agreed to.

LIGHTING THE HOUSE.
Mr. Humesaid, that before the Session closed, there ought to be some understanding as to what was to be done respecting the lighting of the House in the next Session. They ought to decide whether Me Gurney should be allowed to proceed in the recess with the plan of lighting which he had already greatly improved since his first experiments, and in which he contemplated still greater improvements between this and next Session. The light, even as it now was, was a rich mellow light, and in no way offensive to the sight. He hoped, therefore, that Mr. Gurney would be authorised to provide during the recess materials for completing his arrangements; and he believed that when the house, and

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the library, the division rooms, and the lobbies were lighted up with this mellow light, the whole plan would be found to give as much satisfaction as that part of it they already saw in the house. He trusted, therefore, that the Speaker would give the necessary directions for going on with the plan in the recess, and also with the plan for improving the ventilation of the house, which had hitherto been so successfully carried on by Dr. Reid. He would now move, that during the recess Mr. Gurney be permitted to proceed with his apparatus for lighting the house.
Mr. Warburton,in seconding the motion, bore testimony to the great improvement that had been made by Mr. Gurney's plan, which was beyond all comparison superior to the light of candles; it tended also greatly to improve the ventilation, because it facilitated the creation of a down current of air in the house, which it would be impossible to have as long as it was lighted with candles.
Sir C. Burrellfeared, that if a strong down current was formed, it would be necessary for him and others who, like him, had not hair to protect their heads, to wear their hats, or, like an illustrious personage in another house, wear a black cap. With respect to the Bude light, he owned he was at first unfavourable to it, but since the first experiment a considerable improvement had been made, and the light was now very good; and, taking the light and the improved ventilation together, he would say, that the present house was a paradise compared to the old House of Commons.
Mr. Hawessaid, that much credit was due to the gentleman who had undertaken the ventilation of the house, and whose plan had been so successful. As to the Bude light, he admitted that it had been greatly improved, but he hoped that the improvement would be carried still further, so that they might have the house fully lighted, without having the source of that light visible within it.
Mr. Elliotsaid, that as far as his own observations went, and from what he had heard of the opinions of others, he should think the general opinion of the House was, that the present mode of lighting was nearly perfect.
Mr. Humesaid, that he had made the motion for the purpose of giving gentlemen an opportunity of expressing their opinion, and, as the general feeling of the
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House seemed to be in favour of the experiments being continued, under the direction of the Speaker, he would with leave now withdraw it.
Motion withdrawn.