Commons Sitting of 19 May 1830

MINUTES.
De Lacy Evans, Esq. was sworn, and took his Seat as Member for Rye. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON brought in a Bill to declare in what cases Charitable Institutions shall be liable to pay Local Rates.
Petitions presented. In favour of Poor-Laws in Ireland, by Mr. BROWNLOW, from the Labouring Classes of Dublin, who stated that there were in that City 17,000 men anxious, but unable, to support themselves by their labour. Against the Punishment of Death for Forgery, by Sir T. ACLAND, from Chudleigh and Teignmcuth:—By Lord MILTON, from Leeds:—By Mr. DALY, from the Managers of the Provincial Bank of Ireland at Galway:—By Mr. KNOX, from the Managers of the Provincial Bank at Colcraine:—By Mr. BROWNLOW, from the Managers of the Provincial Bank at Armagh:—By Mr. TRANT, from the Managers of the Provincial Bank at Ballina Mayo, also stating that the Bill for amending the Criminal Law did not go far enough. Against the Sale of Beer Bill, by Mr. ASHURST, from the Inhabitants of Henley-upon-Thames. Against abolishing the separate Jurisdiction of the County Palatine of Chester, by Mr. EGERTON, from the Inhabitants of Congledon. Against the renewal of the East India Company's Charter, by Sir T. ACLAND, from the Inhabitants of Ermington. For a repeal of the Excise Duty on Candles, by Sir G. CLERK, from the Candle Manufacturers of Edinburgh. Against the proposed assimilation of Stamp Duties, by Mr. CAREW, from the Inhabitants of New Ross. Praying for a Repeal of the Stamp Duties on Newspapers and Advertisements, by Mr. J. SMITH, from the Members of the City of London Literary and Scientific Institutions. Against the proposed Duty on Com Spirits, by Mr. RUMBOLD, from Growers of Barley in the Neighbourhood of Great Yarmouth. Praying to be relieved from the Duty of Discharging Insolvent Debtors at Quarter Sessions, by Mr. C. WYNN, from Wm. Owen, Chairman of the Sessions of the County of Montgomery.

IRISH CONSTABULARY FORCE.
Mr. O'Connell,in pursuance of the notice he

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had given, moved for a Return of the number of Persons who had lost their lives in affrays with the Constabulary force of Ireland or otherwise, since the formation of that body; the times and places at which such affrays happened, and whether the constables on those occasions had any, and what warrants to execute; and also a Return of the number of Policemen tried for Cutting and Maiming, or Killing Persons; the time and place of the trial, and the result in each case. He stated that the object of his Motion was to bring before the House the question of the policy of having a Constabulary Force armed with deadly weapons. In his opinion it was a matter of great importance.
Mr. Dohertysaid, that there was no objection on the part of the Government to give the hon. and learned Gentleman the Returns which would effect the object he had in view; and when the question came before the House he should be prepared to give his opinion upon it. It seemed to him that there were some objections to the terms of the Motion, which, as now framed, would not bring the intended question fairly before the House. He therefore proposed that the Returns should be of the persons who had lost their lives, or were wounded, in affrays with the Police since its establishment, distinguishing what inquests had been held, and what were the verdicts on those inquests—what bills of indictment had been framed, and how they had been disposed of; and also a Return of the Constables killed in such affrays within the same period. Such a Return would fairly raise the question. He begged to be permitted to express his deep regret, and that of the Government, for the fatal occurrences which had taken place, and their anxious wish to prevent their recurrence.
Mr. O'Counellsaid, that the Returns of men killed in affrays alone would not be sufficient, for several had been shot in endeavouring to escape; and in order to meet those cases he had put in the word "otherwise." For the same reason, it was important to know the nature of the warrants that were to have been executed. As he found the Government were disposed to meet the question fairly, he would, with the permission of the House, withdraw his Motion now, and bring it forward again to-morrow, amended by the suggestions of the hon. and learned Gen-
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tleman opposite. He should at the same time present some petitions on the subject.

JUDGES OF WALES.
On the Motion of the Chanceller of the Exchequer, the House went into a Committee of Supply.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved a Resolution for compensating the Judges of Wales and of the County Palatine of Chester out of the Consolidated Fund.
Sir C. Wetherellsaid, the Resolution was prejudging the question. Perhaps the bill for abolishing the Local Jurisdictions might not pass.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerdid not intend by the Resolution to prejudice the question at all. He only wanted, according to the recommendation of the commissioners, to bring the whole matter before the House at once.
Sir C. Colesaid, he represented the largest county in the Principality, and there was in that county but one feeling on the matter, and that was favourable to the bill.
Mr. O'Connellprotested against any one being pledged by the Resolution, as he himself was against the very principle of compensation in such a case. No man could have a vested right in an abuse. A public system ought only to continue while it worked well for the public.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerreminded the hon. Member, that some of these Judges had been appointed for life.
Sir C. Cole: And one of them especially, as a reward for past public services. He asked the right hon. Gentleman whether the compensation was to be bestowed on all, whatever might have been the terms of their appointments?
The Chancellor of the Exchequer: Certainly not.
Resolution passed; the House resumed; the Report to be received to-morrow.