Commons Sitting of 8 December 1830

MINUTES.
New Writ. For the Borough of Dungannon, the hon. THOMAS KNOX having accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.
Returns ordered. On the Motion of Sir J. NEWPORT, the Receipts of First Fruits in Ireland since 1812:—On the Motion of Sir WM. RAE, the number of instruments of Sasine recorded in Scotland between January 1, 1829, and January 1, 1830, and the expense.
Petitions presented. Against Negro Slavery, by Colonel POWELL, from a place in Cardiganshire:—By Alderman WAITHMAN, four from places in Wales:—By Mr. RUSSELL, from a body of Methodists in Durham:—By Mr. KNIGHT, two from Wallingford:—By Colonel TYRELL, from Cockfield, and another place in Essex:—By the Earl of UXBRIDGE, from Beaumaris; and another Petition from Holyhead:—By Colonel SIBTHORP, from the City of Lincoln:—By the Marquis of GRAHAM, from Cam-bridge:—By Lord G. SOMERSET, five from places in Monmouthshire:—By Mr. WILKS, six from different Congregations of Dissenters:—By Lord ASHLEY, from Dorchester:—By Mr. BYNG, three from Islington and Tottenham:—By Mr. EGERTON, four from places in Cheshire:—By Mr. LEGH KECK, from Hinckley. By Mr. LAMBERT, from a parish in Galway, for the benefits of the Elective Franchise:—By the Earl of UXBRIDGE, from Galway:—By Mr. O'HARA, from the Soap-boilers of Galway, for a Repeal of Duties. By Sir J. NEWPORT, from the Parish of St. John, Waterford, praying for a Repeal of the Union. By Mr. BYNG, from St. John's, Shadwell, complaining of the New Police and the Land-Tax:—By Mr. LEGH KECK, from Hinckley, for the Repeal of the House and Window Taxes:—By Mr. J. JOHN-STONE, from Stirling, for a Reform of Scotch Burghs.

STAMPS ON NEWSPAPERS.
Mr. Struttrose to present a petition, signed by a very numerous body of operatives of Derby, praying for a repeal of the Stamp duties upon Newspapers. The petitioners set forth, that being unable to purchase Newspapers, there had been established among them a cheap paper, which related solely to subjects of literature and of trade. No sooner had the paper obtained a circulation than the conductors of it received a notice from the Stamp-office that it was liable to a Stamp-duty, and the publication was obliged to be suppressed. The petitioners set forth their case to the Government, saying, "You prevent the poor acquiring knowledge, and then punish them for what is the effect of ignorance; leave us to ourselves, and we will educate ourselves." The hon. Member continued, that after what some of the members of the present Administration had said upon this subject on former occasions, he trusted that they would redeem their pledges to the country, by repealing the taxes upon Newspapers, and reduce all duties that operated as a tax upon literature and knowledge.
Mr. J. Woodsaid, that he should have to present a similar petition, signed by 2,300 operatives of Manchester. A work
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had been stopped by the Stamp-duties, which was effecting the greatest good among the poor, by enlightening their minds upon the subject of machinery. He believed the working classes to be very generally in favour of the present Government, but they expected it to redeem its pledge of reducing the taxes upon knowledge.
Mr. Warburtonthought the petition worthy of notice, as containing a distinct denial by the petitioners of the opinion that the use of machinery was injurious to the working classes. The petitioners also stated, that with knowledge they would answer for the peace of the country. He thought his Majesty's Ministers could take no wiser step than to resolve to abolish all the stamp and other duties which impeded the progress of knowledge. Hitherto the education of the people had been both neglected and perverted, and now that they were disposed to educate themselves, it was too bad that the Government should prevent them, or in a manner hinder them by its taxes.
Petition to lie on the Table.

DUTIES ON SEA-BORNE COALS.
Mr. Wilks,in presenting a petition against the duty upon Coals, which, he said, he was extremely solicitous to have repealed, as it pressed with excessive severity on the poor, wished to take that opportunity of asking the hon. member for Limerick whether he intended to bring forward his promised motion upon the subject; for if he abandoned it, other persons might take it up.
Mr. Spring Ricesaid, that under the present circumstances, he felt it would be improper to give any answer to the question, for whether he replied in the negative or affirmative., it might lead to inferences which he should not be prepared to support.
Mr. Ormsby Goresaid, that in North Wales and in Ireland, the duty was very oppressive, and he hoped that it would be repealed. He thought that the continuance of the tax in Ireland was a violation of the Union.
Mr. Warburtonsupported the petition, and declared, that if the hon. member for Limerick gave up the task of moving for the repeal of these duties, that he would undertake that business after the Christmas recess.
General Gascoynethought the question

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could not be in better hands than those of the hon. member for Limerick.
Sir R. Batesonsaid, that the tax was a grievous injury to the Irish manufacturers and prevented them from thriving and extending the employment they could find for the poor. There was another tax—that on window glass— which was a great hindrance to the Irish peasant acquiring a love for comfort, and a great cause of the filthiness of their habitations, and of the diseases which prevailed amongst them. If these two taxes were repealed, the repeal of the Union would not be much in favour.
Sir T. Aclandexpressed a hope that the hon. member for Limerick would, if possible, persist in his motion on the subject; and pledged himself to take the matter up if the hon. Gentleman should consider it his duty to abandon it.
Mr. O'Connellwas glad to hear it acknowledged that these duties were a violation of the Union, and was ready to bear his testimony to the injury they inflicted on the manufacturers of that country. With respect to the duties on window glass, they enhanced its price so much that it was quite beyond the means of the peasantry to purchase it. They were obliged to exclude both light and air from their cabins, and were made the victims of disease by the taxes of the Government.
Mr. Brownlowalso bore testimony to the injurious effects of these taxes and expressed a hope that the hon. member for Limerick would not give up his intention. If the coal-duty were repealed, the vessels that bring cattle and corn from Ireland and go back empty, would take coals which would be a great advantage to the shipping interest.
Mr. Calcrafttook occasion to deprecate the combination existing among the great coal-owners of the North to keep up the price of the article, and stated his fears that a remission of taxation on coals might prove more beneficial to those monopolists, who would scarcely fail to put the amount in their own pockets, than to the public.
Sir M. W. Ridleyassured the hon. Member that there existed no grounds for his apprehensions. The competition between the coal-owners was sufficient to prevent the price of the article from being too high, and he had no doubt, that if the duty were taken off, the public would enjoy the entire benefit of the repeal.
Mr. Wilkssuggested, if the present tax, yielding 800,000 l., could not be given up, that a tax of 1s. a chaldron should be levied at the pit's mouth which would yield 700,000 l. and would be much less injurious and partial than the present tax.
Petition to be printed.