Commons Sitting of 29 January 1828

STATE OF THE LAW AND ITS ADMINISTRATION.
Mr. Broughamgave notice that, on the 7th of February, he would submit to the House a motion, touching the state of the Law of this Country, and its Administration in the Courts of Justice, with a view to such Reforms in the same as time may have rendered necessary, and experience may have shewn to be expedient.
COURT OF CHANCERY.
Mr. M. A. Taylorgave notice, that on the 12th of February he would move for certain returns connected with the Court of Chancery, preparatory to a general motion relative to the Delays and Abuses in that Court.

ADDRESS ON THE KING'S SPEECH.
The Speaker acquainted the House, that the House had been in the House of Lords, to hear the Speech of the Lords Commissioners, of which, to prevent mistakes, he had obtained a copy. After he had read it to the House,
The Hon. Cecil Jenkinsonsaid: —In rising, Sir, on the present occasion, to move, that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, I must observe, in the outset, that no degree of confidence in my own powers has placed me in this situation: on the contrary, there is no man mere diffident of himself, and with reason, than I am. I am not, indeed, a young member, but I have troubled the House very seldom upon any subject pf discussion that has come before it. Having mentioned this circumstance, may add, that, as long as a person—to whom I can hardly allude without an emotion which deprives me of the little power I have pf expressing myself—as long as that person, I mean my noble brother, was not
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only at the head of the councils of his Sovereign, but in a situation of most exalted estimation with the with country, it was needless for me to trouble the House with my own private opinions; for on all public matters they were invariably in accordance with those which he was so well able to declare. He possessed a faculty to which I have no pretensions: he had elequence to describe every feeling and impulse in his comprehensive mind—a mind so comprehensive, that it embraced every thing calculated to increase the greatness or promote the welfare of his, country. I only touch lightly upon this subject, because I cannot but feel the strongest emotions whenever my mind is turned to the present situation of my poor brother [hear!]. Knowing, as I do, however, that since his unfortunate malady, as often as his attention has been directed that way, he has felt and expressed the greatest anxiety for the continued glory and prosperity of his country, I could not refrain from stating thus much.—I would also advert cursorily to another event deeply to be regretted, which has occurred since the melancholy incapability of lord Liverpool. I allude to the death pf a man of the greatest eloquence—a statesman to whom I have often listened with the highest admiration; for whom I am confident my brother, both from early connection and warm admiration of his talents, had the strongest regard; and with whom he had formed an early and roost intimate friendship, founded upon mutual esteem. I never shall forget the effect produced by that right hon. gentleman's commanding eloquence; and, in my feeble way, and in the only mode in which I am capable of stating it, I must express of it my profound admiration. But he is no more—still more completely so than my poor brother; and Providence having disposed of these two great men—I hope I may in justice be allowed to call my brother great, as well as the late Mr. Canning—every body looked with anxiety to the establishment of a new Administration, which should embody all the sentiments, and receive all that approbation, which I believe generally characterized and followed my brother's government, through a long series of years [hear!]. Upon this part of the subject I hope I have not trespassed too far. I hope I have not pressed my ideas of the respect entertained for lord Liverpool beyond what it will bear. I am aware that it is a

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very delicate matter for me to state my respect and veneration for one so near and clear to me, without requiring too much of the patience of the House.—Leaving, therefore, personal questions, I way observe, after being perfectly possessed of every circumstance, I am convinced that lord Liverpool concurs in the formation of that A4ramistratipn, the new writs for various members of which have been moved this very clay. He is satisfied with the principles on which it is founded, and is persuaded that it embodies all the interest to which he was so long and so dearly attached. He approves it as containing many of, if not all, the distinguished persons with whom he was himself closely connected; but, if there be one circumstance of satisfaction more prominent than another, it is that which I may fitly notice; namely, the re-admission of the right hon. the late member of the University of Oxford. A near and dear connection long subsisted between that individual and my noble brother, and his services will be particularly acceptable to the country, as Secretary of State for the Home Department. That right hon. gentleman was introduced into public life by lord Liverpool, and was, in the first instance, Under Secretary in the very office over which he now presides. From the commencement of their acquaintance the most unbounded confidence and concurrence upon every political question have existed between them. With this feeling, and under this persuasion, I am not wrong, I think, in supposing, in the general sense, that lord Liverpool highly approves of the Administration just formed; and I beg distinctly to state, that in making my appearance before the House on the present occasion, I am warranted by the approbation and authority of my noble brother. I wish it, nevertheless, to be clearly understood, that my own inclination has solely prompted me to come forward. It was my own proposition that I should move the Address; and if in what 1 have said, I have let fall any thing objectionable, or that may be unpleasant or ungrateful to the feelings of any hon. member, I beg leave to express my regret at the circumstance. I hope I have guarded myself, and that I have not been guilty of any presumptuousness in what I have offered respecting my brother or myself. I introduce myself, at the present moment, from a sense of public duty, and
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only at my own suggestion.—Having thus prepared my way, I shall only offer a few words upon the Address, with which I shall conclude; as there are few topics in the Speech from the Throne which will not meet, with the full concurrence of the House. As to the struggle in Greece and in the Greek Islands, it must be evident to all who consider the subject, that it was impossible such violations of the laws of humanity and neutrality could be allowed to continue, without an interference. But the period for examination into all the circumstances of the case has not yet arrived. The opinion which the House shall form must, of course, depend upon what may appear in the papers which his majesty has signified his intention of laying before the House. The Address which I shall have the honour of moving, will pledge the House to nothing but a grateful expression of feeling towards his majesty, for the promised production of the papers, without giving the slightest measure of approbation. The mention in the Speech of the battle of Navarin evidently calls for the expression of no opinion on the part of the House. If discussion arise upon it, it should follow an inquiry into all the circumstances of the case; and, until the papers are laid upon the table, it would be premature and fruitless to debate the question. My personal regard for the gallant officer who commanded the British squadron makes me wish to say a few words in his praise; and having myself, early in life, belonged to the same noble profession, no man feels more strongly than I do the gallant manner in which that important service was executed. Upon that point there can be no dispute, and, therefore, no discussion; indeed, if there were any danger of the kind, I should be the last man to provoke it. With regard to the conduct of this country towards Portugal, there will, I apprehend, be as little difference of opinion. The sending out of the troops was debated before they were despatched; and I was one of those who had the pleasure of hearing the eloquent personage I have before mentioned more than once in defence of that measure. It now appears that the troops are about to be recalled; and to this arrangement, certainly, no man is likely to object. The Treaties with Brazil and Mexico must be considered as the earnest of future advantage to this country: the extent of that advantage must, of course, depend upon

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circumstances; but, at all events, the documents are evidence of the efforts of the British government to extend the trade and augment the commercial prosperity of the country.—Another, and an important, topic in the Speech relates to the examination of the receipts and expenditure of the empire; and upon it I beg to be allowed to say only a few words. In adverting to the momentous subject in the trifling and imperfect way in which I must do it, I beg to state my perfect and firm conviction, that this country, in itself, possesses resources which—if administered with wisdom, and assisted and improved by that unbounded confidence which is due by a nation to a government vested in the hands of persons who have been long tried and are known to be worthy of such confidence—are capable of extricating it from any difficulties, however formidable. Let the House look back at the circumstances which have occurred in the past history of the country. Let them look to the period of the war of the Succession. Do they not prove that there is in the nation a power of revivification, or of internal restoration, from the most depressing circumstances. I will not insist upon these details, since they are, no doubt, much more familiar to the House than to myself. But I will say, that the greatest glory which could mark the career of any ministry would be, to accomplish such a restoration of national prosperity and strength. That glory belonged, in a peculiar degree, to sir Robert Walpole, who restored the finances of the country to a state of prosperity, after the depressing effects of the wars of king William and of the Succession. The debts which were then incurred undoubtedly cannot be compared with the debt incurred at a more recent period; but, in a certain degree, they are comparable, and the circumstance fully warrants the conclusion, that this country, through the elasticity of its resources, will again rise to a prosperous and happy condition. Such an achievement, I repeat, would confer the greatest glory upon any ministry. I am not the man who would under-rate the glories which encircle the name of Pitt. I am not the person to undervalue the result of that illustrious statesman's exertions in preserving this country from the effects of the revolutionary mania which then threatened desolation to Europe: but I conceive that the brightest glory which crowned the
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fame of that great man was the circumstance of his having restored the finances of this country, after the great depression produced in them by the American war, to a state of the highest prosperity. There are many circumstances, at present, which weigh heavily upon the national prosperity; and, amongst them, there are none, in my opinion, more formidable than the many changes which have taken place in the value of property. When I talk of the pressure arising out of the late war, I know perfectly well that it is now fourteen or fifteen years since peace was concluded; but the variation in the value of property has been banefully operating during the whole of that period. I am aware that I may talk ignorantly upon a subject of this sort; but what I advance is my honest conviction, and that is the best excuse I can make for offering it to the House. In the variations in the value of property, we must look for the cause of the depression; and, until those variations are adjudicated, it is vain to expect prosperity in the financial condition of the country. I know well that, in time, that happy result will be obtained, and that the growing resources of the country will not alone extricate it from its present difficulties, but, looking at those resources, I confidently predict, that still greater prosperity is in store for us. On this subject it is my most anxious and ardent wish, that the various interests should feel the necessity of conciliating and co-operating with each other. Each has an essential dependence upon the others, and none can subsist opposed to or detached from the rest. For my own part, I have, for many years, been connected with, and wholly dependant upon, the agricultural interest; and am firmly assured, that nothing but a complete fraternity of feeling between the commercial and manufacturing interests, can possibly effect any of those purposes which the most sanguine may contemplate. I, therefore, exhort the House, as the representative of those different interests, and combining in itself the elements of which each is composed, to adopt those conciliatory and comprehensive measures by which the joint benefit of all classes can be achieved, and the distress of each, as far as possible, alleviated; and to endeavour to accomplish these most desirable objects, not by any false and partial view, not by any niggardly catching at what may appear to be the separate interest of any one particular body whom they may individually repre-

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sent, but by the consolidation of the joint and only true interests of all.—These, Sir, are the views which I have formed of the line of policy that ought to be adopted. I fear that, in the few observations with which I have troubled the House, something may have escaped me which may expose me to ridicule, or perhaps contempt. But I am conscious of the rectitude of my sentiments. I have, therefore, given expression to them, feeling it a duty to lend my humble and feeble aid to second the voice of the House, and, as I confidently trust, of the country, in pronouncing the present administration worthy of public confidence. Having described, as shortly as possible, and as well as I am able, the feelings which I entertain, and the motives by which I am actuated, I shall conclude with moving,
"That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty—to return his Majesty our humble thanks for the gracious Speech which his Majesty has directed to be delivered by the Lords Commissioners.
"To assure his Majesty, that we feel the greatest satisfaction in learning that his Majesty continues to receive from all foreign princes and states, assurances of their desire to maintain the relations of amity with this country; and that the great powers of Europe participate in the earnest wish of his Majesty, to cultivate a good understanding upon all points which may conduce to the preservation of peace.
"To express to his Majesty our deep regret that the state of affairs in the East of Europe should have been the subject of great concern to his Majesty; and that a contest should have been so long carried on between the Ottoman Porte and the inhabitants of the Greek Provinces and Islands, which has been marked on each side by excesses revolting to humanity.
"To assure his Majesty, that our regret is increased by learning, that in the progress of that contest, the rights of neutral states, and the laws which regulate the intercourse of civilized nations, have been repeatedly violated, and the peaceful commerce of his Majesty's subjects has been exposed to frequent interruption, and to depredations, too often aggravated by acts of violence and atrocity.
"To assure his Majesty, that we participate in the deep anxiety felt by his Majesty, to terminate the calamities, and avert the dangers, inseparable from hostilities, which constitute the only exception to the general tranquillity of Europe.
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"Humbly to thank his Majesty for the I communication which he has made to us, that his Majesty having been earnestly entreated by the Greeks to interpose his good offices, with a view to effect a reconciliation between them and the Ottoman Porte, had concerted measures for that purpose in the first instance with the emperor of Russia, and subsequently with his Imperial Majesty and the king of France.
"And also for the directions which his Majesty has been pleased to give, that there should be laid before us copies of a Protocol, signed at St. Petersburgh by the Plenipotentiaries of his Majesty and of his Imperial Majesty the emperor of Russia, on the 4th of April, 1826, and of the Treaty entered into between his Majesty and the Courts of the Tuileries and of St. Petersburgh, on the 6th of July, 1827.
"To thank his Majesty, for having informed us, that in the course of the measures adopted with a view to carry into effect the object of the Treaty, a collision, wholly unexpected by his Majesty, took place in the Port of Navarin, between the fleets of the contracting powers and that of the Ottoman Porte.
"To assure his Majesty, that we participate in the regret expressed by his Majesty, notwithstanding the valour displayed by the combined fleet, that a conflict should have occurred with the naval force of an ancient ally, and that we rejoice to learn that his Majesty still entertains a confident hope that this untoward event will not be followed by further hostilities, and will not impede that amicable adjustment of the existing differences between the Porte and the Greeks, to which it is so manifestly their common interest to accede.
"To express to his Majesty our sincere satisfaction in learning that it is his Majesty's determination in maintaining the national faith, by adhering to the engagements into which his Majesty has entered, never to lose sight of the great objects to which all his Majesty's efforts have been directed—the termination of the contest between the hostile parties—the permanent settlement of their future relations to each other—and the maintenance of the repose of Europe upon the basis on which it has rested since the last general Treaty of Peace.
"To assure his Majesty that we are highly gratified by learning that the purposes for which his Majesty, upon the requisition of the Court of Lisbon, detached

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a Military Force to Portugal, have been accomplished, and that the obligations of good faith having been fulfilled, and the safety and independence of Portugal secured, his Majesty has given orders that the forces now in that country should be immediately withdrawn.
"To thank his Majesty for having directed to be laid before us copies of the Treaties of Amity and Commerce which his Majesty has concluded with the emperor of Brazil, and with the United States of Mexico.
"To return our acknowledgments to his Majesty, for having ordered the Estimates for the current year to be laid before us, and for the assurance that they have been prepared with every regard to economy consistent with the exigency of the Public Service.
"To assure his Majesty, that we will, in pursuance of his Majesty's recommendation, institute an early inquiry into the state of the Revenue and Expenditure of the country.
"To express to his Majesty our satisfaction in learning that, notwithstanding the diminution which has taken place in some branches of the Revenue, the total amount of receipt during the last year has not disappointed the expectations which were entertained at the commencement of it, and that a considerable increase has taken place in the export of the principal articles of British manufacture.
"To assure his Majesty, that this improvement of our foreign trade is peculiarly gratifying to us, on account of its having led to a more general employment of the population, and because it is a satisfactory indication of the continued abatement of those commercial difficulties which recently affected so severely the national industry.
"To return to his Majesty our grateful acknowledgments for the confidence which he has been pleased to express in our continued desire to improve the condition of all classes of his Majesty's subjects, and to recognize the paternal goodness of his Majesty in recommending to our care, as the first object of his Majesty's solicitude, the prosperity and happiness of his people."
Mr. Robert Grantsaid:—I rise, Sir, for the purpose of seconding the Address. I know not whether I am expected to notice all the topics treated of in the Speech from the Throne, but I certainly do not feel it necessary at this time, point by point, to go over them. There are, indeed, some, to
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which, as a matter of expediency, it may not be proper, at this moment, to advert. The absence of most of the principal members of his majesty's government, certainly, by no means takes from the House the right, or abridges the right, of free discussion; but, at the same time, it would be inconvenient and unsatisfactory to attempt to enter upon questions intimately connected with disputable measures, in the absence of those whose duty it is to sustain those measures. For this reason, therefore, without imputing the slightest degree of blame to the hon. mover, I shall pass over some of the points to which he has adverted. I am perfectly ready to acquiesce in the doctrine, that no ministry ought to presume on the confidence of the Crown, or on the confidence of parliament and the country, which is not prepared to face all the topics introduced by the hon. gentleman. But the period of the absence of the chief members of that ministry does not seem to me precisely the time for entering upon such a discussion. I do not thus mean at all to question the individual act of the hon. mover. He has a perfect right to state the grounds on which he thinks fit to support this or that government; and, if it were possible for criticism to attack any speech, sure I am that criticism would be disarmed by the diffidence with which that speech was delivered, and the amiable effusions of fraternal love and affection which it displayed.—The most gracious Speech of his majesty dwells, at some length, on the pacific state of Europe, and represents it as being, in the main, in a state of perfect and continued tranquillity; at the same time it points out two exceptions to this picture of unrelieved repose. One is a case undoubtedly of the deepest interest; but, from the terms of the Speech, we gather that it has become a source only of joyful recollection. In the other, we are still kept in a state of anxious, but t trust neither painful nor fearful suspense: the one affects the Western, the other the Eastern side of Europe: the one directs our view to Portugal; the other to Greece. About twelve months have now elapsed since our troops disembarked on the shores of the Peninsula, for the defence of a portion of it, and in fulfilment of solemn treaties with Portugal, the ancient and faithful ally of Great Britain. Such were the motives which dictated the expedition. Upon the faith of treaties, Great Britain was called on to preserve the national independence

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of that kingdom, with which her interests had always been closely connected. Objections to the expedition did, however, exist; not on the score of injustice or impropriety, but that it was calculated to throw additional burthens on the partially exhausted resources of this country. I see one hon. member now in his place who enforced this point with much effect. He urged, that, although the enterprise was indispensable, there was some danger lest it should lead to disagreeable results. It was possible that it might kindle a war of opinion, the consequences of which might be incalculably disastrous. But I find in the king's Speech that which must at once allay all apprehension. We are told that our troops are on the point of returning to our shores: having achieved the object for which they were despatched by the influence of their presence, they are about to revisit their native land, crowned with victory—neither the less grateful, nor the less glorious, because it has been bloodless. Whatever might be the difference of opinion at the outset of the expedition —some supporting, because it was recommended by justice and policy, and others resisting it, because it might tend to disastrous results—assuredly, the conclusion of the enterprise must lead to a united opinion in its favour. Not a syllable was even breathed against its justice; and all classes may now join in one feeling of hearty congratulation. The soil of Portugal has been protected from invasion; the treasury of Great Britain has been, in a great degree, undrained; and the sword of Great Britain has been returned unstained into its scabbard. It was, I think, impossible to touch upon the circumstances connected with the Portuguese expedition without having the mind forcibly recalled to the memory of the distinguished, individual by whom that movement was planned and executed; of whose policy it may be truly said to be the dying effort; and respecting whom, whatever difference may have prevailed upon particular events, there will, I am sure, remain but one feeling of affectionate regret and regard, for the memory of a statesman, who was for so many years; the delight and ornament of this assembly. Providence fortunately preserved him for that last achievement; it had reserved it for one who had the wisdom to project, and the power to execute it: and, though now removed from the control of human events, history will inseparably associate his name with the renown of the
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measure, and inscribe it upon the column erected to attest national glory. Quitting the topic of Portugal, there are some others to which I must be allowed to refer. In the first place, I must beg leave to remark on that part of his majesty's Speech which refers to the present contest between Greece and the Ottoman Porte. It has, no doubt, been observed by the House, that his majesty's Speech is, on this subject, confined to certain facts which are already before us. In the exposition of the views of government on this question there are certain points on which I entertain little doubt that we shall all be unanimous. There can be no question that the quarrel between the two states has given rise to a most sanguinary contest between the parties interested, and that it has been carried to such an extent, as to involve almost all the shores of the Mediterranean in the consequences, and to disturb the peace of the countries more immediately in the vicinity of the seat of war. I am most willing to believe, that the allied powers, who have interfered hi this question, are impelled by an anxiety to establish a system of affairs on a just and equitable foundation; and, as far as these points go, I think that the House will not hesitate in agreeing with me. But further than this, we can scarcely, with safety, proceed: for, as we have no authentic documents relative to the last proceedings which have taken place before us, I do not see how we can well enter into the question of what has been proper, and of what has been improper, in the course pursued. The House will, no doubt, observe, that the Address which I have the honour to second, follows the same line as that which I have been laying down. It contents itself with thanking his majesty for the communication which he has made us; but it in no way pledges the House to any opinion. There is one point connected with this question, however, on which I wish to add a word; though I am ready to admit that silence, generally speaking, would at present be preferable. The point on which I would speak, certainly presents to me a degree of difficulty which I cannot help feeling—little as it appears to affect others. If it be asked, generally, whether, under any circumstances it is either proper or consistent, for foreign nations to interfere—and riot merely to interfere, but to interfere coercively—between two states at war with each other, I am free to confess that the

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question is replete with difficulties. I believe it must be admitted, that all writers on the subject have laid down non-interference as the general rule; and, in a question so important as the present, we must look in every direction; not that I mean to say that there are to be no exceptions to this general rule, but they must be confined to cases so special and peculiar, that, on the face of them, the peculiarity must be discernible. If, then, when only one single nation is concerned in the interference, the matter requires such caution, it must be doubly so, when the affair is undertaken by a confederacy; for, however single-hearted any one of the nations may be in its purpose, it cannot answer for the designs of the others; neither can it be sure, that the same wisdom, the same good faith, and the same moderation, are actuating its allies. But though all this makes it unsafe to interfere, there certainly have been and may be cases, where it would be our duty to interfere between two belligerents: for as in England it has never been a question, that a nation, under certain circumstances, has a right to revolt, it would be the grossest of absurdities to suppose, that its allies are to be deprived of the right of aiding' them in their exertions. We ourselves have, in former times, lent armed assistance to Holland, when she was oppressed, and which she still remembers with gratitude; and, at another period, we had received from the same country succour and support. I trust that the House will pardon me for having detained it so long on this subject; but as I could not fail to be sensible to the deep importance attached to it, I was anxious that what I had to say on the matter should not be misunderstood; and if I have declined giving any distant opinion on certain points connected with this topic, I have done so, not because I wished to shrink from it, but from the circumstance of the whole facts of the case not being before the House, and because I did not feel myself at liberty to decide without the fullest information. There is another reason also, why I wish to be very cautious; and that is, because we learn from his majesty's Speech, that there is still a hope that negotiations between the parties will go on, and lead to a compromise without resorting to extreme measures. If this should turn out to be the case, the House will see how necessary it is to be cautious how it comes to any expression
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of opinion on this point, previous to the question being settled. Certainly any collected expression of opinion, and possibly even an individual opinion, might, at the present epoch, incur the chance of disturbing that tranquillity, the restoration of which every one must be desirous to witness. I do not intend to trouble the House with minute remarks on all the topics which are touched upon in the Speech from the Throne; but there is one to which I must allude for a minute before I sit down—I mean that part of the Speech which alludes to the internal situation of this country, and the measures which are contemplated for its amelioration. I do not mean to enter into the consideration of the causes of our commercial depression, nor into the discussion of any measures likely to be proposed for their relief. There is nothing easier than to indulge in florid descriptions of pleasing anticipations and sanguine hopes; but the royal Speech wisely abstains from any extravagance of that nature: it fairly and plainly says, that some improvement has taken place, but that much yet remains to be done; and it calls upon parliament to take the matter into its fullest consideration, and thereby to discharge a necessary, though a most laborious, duty. There are certain evils, however, under which the country is suffering, to which I doubt whether it is in the power of the legislature to apply a direct remedy, I mean the evils of depression, which are still affecting the productive classes. This is the subject that is pressed upon our attention; and we can have no objection to pledge ourselves to the prosecution of the inquiry how far the public expenditure may be reduced, consistently with the necessary demands of the country, and in what degree we may be able to improve the internal condition of the people. With respect to the manufacturing classes, to which the Speech has alluded, I believe that one of the chief causes of the depression under which they are suffering, is far removed beyond the control of the House. I am afraid we must not be sanguine enough to hope that the improvement of their condition will be rapid; and I cannot help feeling a great doubt, whether parliament, with all its boasted omnipotence, will be able to accelerate so desirable an event. This, however, so far from furnishing any excuse for remissness on our parts, should, on the contrary, furnish the strongest mo-

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tives for activity. Whatever our success may be likely to be, let us at all events do our best; so that at least the country may see, and we ourselves feel, that every thing has been done by us that could be done, in the honest and faithful discharge of our duty; and though, on some occasions, the disposition of the people of England may be wayward, yet I have sufficient faith in their good sense and candour, to believe, that when they see parliament exerting itself for their benefit, they will afford it a firm co-operation and assistance. By pursuing, therefore, the course, pointed out to us by the Crown, we shall be discharging our duty to them and to ourselves; and assuredly, if we may judge from the tenor of the Speech which we have heard this night, we may conclude, that in promoting the happiness of the people, we shall effectually be promoting one of the most earnest objects of his majesty's solicitude.
Mr. Broughamsaid, he agreed most entirely in one of the observations of his hon. and learned friend who had just seconded the Address, and the propriety of which must indeed receive a general and unqualified assent; namely, that circumstances rendered the present time most inconvenient for the discussion of the several important matters referred to in the Speech from the Throne. At the same time, he must, on his own part, as well as on that of the constitutional authority of the House, assert the unquestionable right of every member to discuss, if it so pleased him, every part of the Speech which had been read from the chair, just as if the whole of his majesty's ministers were at that moment in their seats in parliament. But, while he asserted such a right he assented to the manifest inexpediency of the present time for entertaining that discussion, because it would not be quite consistent with perfect fairness and candour, to enter at once upon the consideration of so great a variety of topics, in the absence of those who were bound to explain and defend them. He owned, however, at the same time, his wish, that his hon. and learned friend, the seconder, as well as the hon. mover of the Address, had suggested to their own minds the propriety of following themselves the advice which they had recommended to others. It was a little inconsistent that their own conduct should be an exception to their own admonition;
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and rather singular that they should unhesitatingly depart from that advice, which with so much propriety as well as justice they had been pleased to impart to others. It was one thing to say that the means of discussion were not at present within the reach of the House, nor the men present whose measures and conduct were to be discussed, therefore candour suggested that the attack (if attack there was to be) ought not to be made until the defence could fairly be produced; and it was quite another thing at the same moment to discuss these very topics on one side, and forbid all allusion to them on the other. An abstinence on both sides would have been fair and proper; but to give this advice in one breath, and to depart from it widely in the next, by entering elaborately into all the topics upon which difference of opinion might be reasonably presumed, and only preserving silence upon those points on which all were agreed, was, to say the least of it, remarkably inconsistent. See the pain which must be imposed by such a course. You profess a desire to prevent discussion in the absence of the ministers, but you place your opponents in the unpleasant situation of hearing that discussion, ex parte, and being, for urgent reasons, interdicted from all reply. Yet, such was the position in which they were placed by the course that had been so singularly pursued on the present occasion. The hon. mover had come forward with his, as it were, plenary approbation of the Speech from the Throne. He was, no doubt, perfectly right in giving his approval, and no blame attached to him for accompanying the declaration with his reasons; but, it was rather hard, while this was done on one side, that members should be called upon to hold their peace on the other [hear!]. There was no excuse for this inconsistency, of giving a plenary approbation of the breaking up of the old Administration, even coupled as it was with the lesson which the hon. mover had brought down to them from his noble relative, the earl of Liverpool, who wished to have it notified to the House that he approved of the construction of the new Administration. Glad, indeed, he was, to hear of the noble earl's convalescence; for he, as well as the public, had thought that the noble lord was neither in a condition to take advice, nor to understand the important topics upon which he was said to have

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given any: but he must beg at the same time, with every proper feeling of delicacy, to object to the delivery of this kind of message from the noble earl, respectable as he was in private life, and in all his domestic relations, because he had been uniformly a minister, indeed possessing office hereditarily, and a member of all the governments throughout his time —save only the last. The House needed hot advice from such a quarter; even though so respectable and so irreproachable. That noble earl had always demeaned himself inoffensively to those who were in public life his antagonists. He had always found the' noble lord the fairest and most candid of adversaries; but in at was no reason for presenting to the House the noble lord's uncalled for advice, and his assurance that the present administration, founded upon the ruins of the old, was the best of all possible governments. Doubtless the noble' earl meant to approve of all the members of that hew administration, though with sortie of them he had essentially differed on many occasions. Doubtless he meant equally to approve of all the Omissions in its construction, which had so astounded, the public; highly approving he doubt, of the absence from office of his old and learned friend and colleague, the earl of Eldon, whose name had accompanied his own through life, with an attachment so inviolable, that it resembled the connexion between Castor and Pollux. So much, indeed, had they been twin stars in the horizon of this nether political world, that one could hardly be named except in conjunction with the other. There never had, he believed, been a political measure in which they were disjoined, or a movement, in which they did not conjointly participate. Most remarkable was it, therefore, that the noble earl could have recorded his unqualified approval of the omission of the name of his ancient colleague in the roll of the new government. Most surprising it was, that such an opinion could be communicated from the noble earl, respecting those with whom he had so long happily acted, and who were not, happily a part of the present administration [a laugh]. In making these observations, he should hot suffer himself to be drawn into unnecessary discussion, notwithstanding the example which had been improvidently set; for he entirely concurred in the propriety of abstaining from debating measures in the
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absence of the information which was to throw a light upon them, and of the persons who were bound to vindicate them. While, however, he was ready to abstain from premature discussion, he must protect himself against being concluded from protesting, when the proper season arrived, against many of the doctrines, and many of the arguments, of the hon. mover and seconder of the Address. He must not be considered as agreeing in any one of those questionable propositions, or in the equally questionable arguments, with which they had been supported; and still more against being considered as adopting the terms used in the Address from the Throne. He wished for the presence of those by whom the king's Speech had been penned, before he impugned it as one which, more than any other he had ever heard, tended to commit the country in a position of peculiar embarrassment. Against one paragraph of that Address, he was most anxious to record at once his unqualified dissent; having at the same time the fullest and firmest conviction, that that dissent would be re-echoed from one end of the kingdom to the other. He meant to allude to the manner in which the late glorious, brilliant, decisive, and immortal, achievement at Navarino was described, as being a matter to be lamented. This was the first time he had ever seen men anxious to come forward and refuse credit where it had been called for, and set at nought the most splendid atchievement of their arms. It had been reserved for some of the men of these times, to triumph and to be afraid—to conquer and to repine—to fight as heroes did, the contest of freedom, and still to tremble like slaves—to act gloriously, and repine bitterly—to win by brave men the battle of liberty in the east, and in the west to pluck from the valiant brow the laurels which it had so nobly earned, and plant the cypress in their stead, because the conqueror had fought for religion and liberty. He hailed as a bad omen the designation of a great naval achievement as an "untoward event." He complained of this passage, on the part of certain honourable gentlemen, who formed a portion of the late, as they did of the present administration, but who were not present to state their sentiments with reference to this point. The government came down and said, "O! you must not discuss such and such subjects, because Mr. Grant and

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Mr. Huskisson are absent." On that account they were called on not to discuss certain measures. He certainly did not wish to discuss them in their absence; but, was it right for those who drew up the Speech to put into the mouth of their sovereign an attack on Mr. Grant and Mr. Huskisson, which they could not answer at the present moment? Perhaps it would be said, that no attack on them was intended. If not, against whom was the attack—for such it appeared to him to be—intended? Was it meant for that intrepid officer who led the British fleet to victory? Was it meant for those gallant men who had fought and bled in the cause of liberty and humanity? The censure was directed either against Mr. Grant and Mr. Huskisson, or against the gallant officer who was employed on this important occasion. "In this dilemma, my lord field marshal duke of Wellington and prime minister, you are placed. From this dilemma it is impossible you can extricate yourself. Out of this dilemma, not your finest manœuvres, not your most accomplished movements, be they ever so bold, ever so nimble, ever so well-constructed, will be sufficient to extricate you. Either you blame Mr. Huskisson and Mr. Grant—not only blame them, but get the brother of Mr. Grant to stand up in this house to censure them, on account of this measure—or there is no blame whatever imputed by you. In that case, the blame is all meant on the other side: it is directed against those who fought this glorious battle—against those who led our gallant seamen to victory. They must be the objects of blame, if Mr. Huskisson and Mr. Grant are not." He, however, could not conceive, how censure could be cast upon the chief in that engagement, after he had been thanked by his sovereign—after he had been distinguished by the praises of his superior in the navy—after he had been covered with honours, which were only less estimable than the fame and glory which he had achieved in the service of his country. Wholly concurring in the sentiment, that it would be greatly for the benefit of Greece if peace were restored, and believing that this victory would mainly contribute to the attainment of that object, he greatly rejoiced in the event. Deploring, as he should do, the commencement of war; particularly deploring such a circumstance in the present state of the finances of this country, still he could not find fault with
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the step which had been taken. He concurred entirely in his hon. and learned friend's view of the question, when he deprecated war: but he could not, while touching on this point, avoid stating, that he observed with regret, an approximation to a military system in this country; the government being represented, in the other house, by field-marshal the duke of Wellington, and in that house by the noble Secretary at War. He really thought, that too much had been said about their ancient and faithful, religious ally, the religious and liberal emperor of the Turks; especially as the head of the Protestant interest—one, he was going to say, almost on the throne of this country—had expressed himself perfectly satisfied with what had been done. He trusted that a system of perverted feeling with respect to political measures would not recur. The brilliant success which had attended the introduction of a liberal system into our foreign policy, under the administration of a right hon. gentleman of transcendent merit, would, he hoped, sufficiently show the necessity of proceeding in the same course. He trusted that the talents and the exertions of that eminent man—who had fallen a sacrifice to the vile abuse which had been heaped upon him—would not be lost to the country. The success which had attended the right hon. gentleman's efforts, induced him to hope, that the liberal system which the right hon. gentleman had introduced would be for ever pursued by this country. He trusted that they should no longer have to dread, as they had formerly dreaded, lest their names should be coupled with liberal principles. He trusted that they should not, in future, be ashamed of all that was best in their own institutions, while they supported all that was worst, most approved, and most legitimate, in other monarchies. He trusted that England would long continue to be, what she had for the last three or four years been, since Mr. Canning came into office, the refuge and solace of persecuted freemen, and not the refuge and solace of the tyrants by whom they were persecuted. He hoped that, wherever any tyranny was exercised—wherever any system of misgovernment was apparent—wherever any plan of cruelty or of fraud was contemplated and enforced against the liberties of the people—those who suffered by such iniquitous proceedings would never cease to look to England for succour and support.

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The manner in which our "ancient ally" was spoken of, while in the same passage the splendid victory of Navarino was described as an "untoward event," led him to entertain some fears as to the policy which would hereafter be pursued; but he sincerely hoped that those fears would prove groundless.—He had carefully abstained from making any remark on the government generally, or on any of its individual members; but he would, for himself, declare, that let the government be composed of whom it might—let the causes (which he pretended not to know) of the changes that had recently taken place be what they might still, so long as he found certain men forming part and parcel of the administration—so long as he thought he could rely on their determination to pursue a wise, salutary, and liberal line of foreign and domestic policy (which the Speech from the Throne gave him, for the first time, reason to doubt), so long should they have his support. He looked not to the members of the administration, but to their measures; and if those measures were good, the administration should have—not a reluctant or tardy—but as hearty, as sincere, and as active, a support, as if he were sitting on the other side of the House. He was intimately connected with those from whom those liberal measures, so beneficial to the country, had flowed; and he believed that they felt, on this point, exactly as he did.—He could not sit down without saying a few words on a particular circumstance, connected with the present administration, to which, he confessed, he felt a very great degree of objection. He alluded to the commander-in-chief of the army having been placed, by his sovereign, at the head of the government. No man valued more highly than he did the illustrious services of the noble duke, as a soldier. No man gloried more in the numerous victories which the noble duke had achieved than he did. Indeed, when many persons were undervaluing those victories, and describing them as "untoward events," he raised his voice in that House, and endeavoured to show their importance. He was one of the first to endeavour, by all the means in his power, to promote the successful career of the noble duke, by placing greater and more extensive resources at his disposal. But, though he entertained the highest opinion of the noble duke's military genius, still he did not like to see him at the head
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of the finance of the country, enjoying all the patronage of the Crown,—enjoying, as he did enjoy, the full and perfect confidence of his sovereign,—enjoying the patronage of the army,—enjoying the patronage of the church,—and, in fact, enjoying almost all the patronage of the state. To the noble duke also was intrusted the delicate function of conveying constant and confidential advice to the ear of his royal master. As a constitutional man, this state of things struck him as being most unconstitutional. He was, indeed, told, that the noble duke was a person of very great vigour in council, and that his talents were not confined to the art of war. It might be so; but that did not remove his objections against the noble duke's being placed in possession of such an immense mass of civil and military influence. It was said, that the noble duke was incapable of speaking, in public, as a first minister of the Crown ought to do. Now, he conceived that there was no validity in that objection. He happened to be present when the noble duke, last year, had the modesty and candour to declare, in another place, that he was unfit for the situation of first minister, and he really thought he had never heard a better speech in the whole course of his life [a laugh]. Nothing could be more suited to the occasion. He never saw less want of capacity in an individual who might be called on to take an active part in debate. This, therefore, was not his reason for objecting to the appointment. That objection rested on the constitutional grounds which he had already stated, and, moreover, because the noble duke's experience had been purely military, not civil. It was scarcely necessary to remind the House of the noble duke's near connexion with the very worst, the most despotic, and the most purely military system, into which this country had ever been seduced. That, however, formed in his mind, another, and a very strong objection to the noble duke's being placed at the head of the administration. It was not any compensation to him, or to the country, to hear (what he had heard, not in that place, but out of doors), "Oh! the duke of Wellington is a person who will take care to have his own way; patronage will now go in its right channel; influence will no longer have any effect in the distribution of patronage, as many persons will find." This was no compensation to him for so

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objectionable an appointment. What was rumoured out of doors, as to the future disposal of patronage, might be true—perhaps it was true; but the House would not consider that to be a compensation, the country would not consider it to be a compensation, for this appointment. He could not see why individuals of rank should not recommend persons to high offices in the army, the navy, or the church. It was the duty of the minister to judge of their fitness, and on him lay the responsibility of the appointment; but, that any one individual, of exalted rank, of great connexions, of extensive and commanding influence, should alone have the power of nominating to situations in the army, the navy, and the church, was what he did not understand. Why the court, as it was called—the nobility and gentry—should be excluded from recommending to situations, he could not conceive. Why the nobility in general, or why wealthy commoners, possessing perhaps two or three boroughs, should be bound hand and foot, and prevented from recommending to situations, he could not discover. This was not his reading of the constitution. He was not aware, on constitutional grounds, why their recommendations should not be received. The patronage was in the minister, and he was responsible for the manner in which he disposed of it; and, be the person who came forward with a recommendation a peer or a boroughholder, he cared not: if an improper nomination was made, he had a responsible minister to answer for it. There was, therefore, in this new arrangement, no security or compensation to the House or to the country for this union of power; and, therefore, in his view of the matter, it was utterly unconstitutional.—Let it not be supposed, however, that he was inclined to exaggerate. He had no fear of slavery being introduced into this country, by the power of the sword. It would take a stronger, it would demand a more powerful, man, even than the duke of Wellington, to effect such an object. The noble duke might take the army, he might take the navy, he might take the mitre, he might take the great seal—he would make the noble duke a present of them all. Let him come on with his whole force, sword in hand, against the constitution, and the energies of the people of this country would not only beat him, but laugh at his efforts. Therefore he was perfectly satis-
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fied, that there would be no unconstitutional attack on the liberties of the people. These were not the times for such an attempt. There had been periods when the country heard with dismay that "the soldier was abroad." That was not the case now. Let the soldier be ever so much abroad, in the present age he could do nothing. There was another person abroad,—a less important person,—in the eyes of some an insignificant person,—whose labours had tended to produce this state of things. The schoolmaster was abroad [cheers]! and he trusted more to the schoolmaster, armed with his primer, than he did to the soldier in full military array, for upholding and extending the liberties of his country. He thought the appointment of the duke of Wellington was bad, in a constitutional point of view; but as to any violence being, in consequence, directed against the liberties of the country, the fear of such an event he looked upon as futile and groundless.—He felt it incumbent upon him to say, that in giving his consent to the Address, he did so with a reservation as to the manner in which the battle of Navarino was spoken of. He protested against that portion of it on the part of the late government; he protested against it on the part of Mr. Huskisson and Mr. Grant, who were not now present; and he protested against it on the part of the country, by whom he thought the terms in which that great victory were noticed would be received with astonishment and disgust [hear].
Sir Joseph Yorkesaid, he hoped that the noble Secretary at War would not suffer the House to separate without giving the House some explanation with respect to the change of ministry, and the course which the new administration meant to pursue. He had hoped that the principles advocated by the great man now no more would have continued to be the principles of the government. He should like to know how these changes had been brought about, how the union of Whig and Tory had been put an end to by the appointment of the duke of Wellington, which had filled the country with astonishment. Was it in Great Britain that such difficulty could be found in forming a ministry? Could not individuals be found of sufficient talents and integrity to govern the country? Could not individuals be discovered who would agree with each other in carrying on the business of the

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country with a sole view only to its welfare? Were they become so degenerate, that ministers could not be found to conduct the public affairs, unless it was stipulated that they should be placed in a situation to command one job or another? He could not agree with the hon. seconder in what he had said relative to the dispute Navarino. The Greeks were by no means exempt from faults. For his part, he was inclined to consider the Turks as very honest fellows; although they had a way of governing people by taking off their heads. He thanked the learned gentleman opposite for his able speech. He had opened the thunder of his artillery with great effect, upon the Treasury-bench. Indeed, he had almost trade him tremble on his seat. In his opinion, the noble Secretary at War could not get out of the business any more than the duke of Wellington, unless he stated what had given rise to the extraordinary change that had been effected in the government of the country.
Mr. Bankessaid, he felt it impossible not to, notice some of the topics that were mentioned in the Speech from the Throne. It appeared to him that there was an almost unqualified regret, throughout the country, at the disastrous affair of Navarino—an affair which had created dismay and astonishment. Those who had agreed to the treaty were placed in a dilemma from which they could not extricate themselves; seeing that the necessary consequence of that treaty, which he considered to be impolitic and unjust, was the deplorable event to which he had alluded. There would, he knew, arrive other opportunities for arguing this point; but as it farmed so prominent a part of his majesty's Speech, and as that Speech seemed, in some manner, to countenance that transaction, he could not suffer the topic to be passed by in silence. The hon. and learned gentleman had spoken of the foreign policy which this government ought to adopt. Was it, then, British policy to interfere in the internal affairs of other states. Was it not contrary to the law of nations to do so? And had they not, by the treaty into which they had entered, violated that law? The hon. and learned gentleman maintained that this was a contest for religion and liberty. It was no such thing. The treaty was founded on a false pretence; and they were next told that the intention was to put down piracy. But, was it ne-
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cessary for England, the greatest naval country under the sun, to call to her assistance two other powers, to check and put down a system of piracy? Was it necessary that a fleet of sixteen sail of the line should be employed in such a business? It was ridiculous to make such an assertion. Could any one imagine it necessary to equip such a force for the purpose of putting down the piratical attempts of either or both of the hostile powers? No such thing. It was apparent, on the face of the matter, that the force was entirely directed against the power which was in amity with this country, and that, too, without any sufficing cause. In his view of the case, the entire subject, the treaty and every thing connected with it, should be referred to a secret committee: for it would not, perhaps, be proper that such an inquiry should be public. He should be glad to know in what situation this country stood at present; and whether we were at war or peace with Turkey. As to the gallant officer who had behaved so honourably at Navarino, he had nothing to say against him. He had only to lament, that that meritorious individual had been engaged in an attack on an ancient ally. It would, however, be right that the House should know, hereafter, what instructions were given to him on that disastrous occasion. As there must be various discussions on this business, he should not detain the House longer; but he deemed it necessary, thus early, to throw out these hints, because he thought that there ought to be an expression of the opinion of the House on this part of the Speech. As to Portugal, he was glad to learn that the troops sent there were on the eve of returning. That measure, also, was not in the spirit of British policy, inasmuch as it interfered with the government of foreign nations, an interference not justified by circumstances, nor demanded by our own interest or safety. He deprecated, in the strongest terms, every thing connected with the treaty. If it should he attended with a happy result, he should ascribe it to good fortune rather than to wise counsels.
Lord Althorpsaid, he agreed with his hon. and learned friend, as far as he was informed of the circumstances, that the battle of Navarino was a necessary consequence of the treaty of London. He agreed, also, most fully, in the protest of his hon. and learned friend against those

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expressions in the Speech from the Throne, which seemed to cast a censure upon the gallant admiral who commanded at Navarino. It would be hard, indeed, upon naval officers, if they were to be employed in highly delicate and important duties, and were liable afterwards to have blame insinuated against them, without the clearest proof that cause for such blame existed. With respect to the treaty of London, undoubtedly he felt considerable doubts both as to its policy and justice. But, nevertheless, he could not bring himself to give so decided an opinion as his hon. friend who spoke last had done. He would hear the explanations of those who were responsible for the treaty, and not, in their absence, prejudge the question; and therefore he wished that the subject, for the present, had been avoided. As to the affairs of Portugal, he felt the same satisfaction which the hon. member expressed; but his satisfaction arose from a very different cause. He was glad to hear that the British troops were about to leave that country; but he was so, because they had been entirely successful in the object for which they were sent out. England was bound by treaty to prevent the interference of foreign powers with Portugal. A demonstration of interference on the part of Spain induced Portugal to ask for our assistance; and it was as impossible in faith and honour, as it was in sound policy, to refuse it. In giving that assistance, we had given it without any desire to support one party in the country more than another. Portugal no longer required it; and the troops were, therefore, withdrawn; the object of their occupation being accomplished. He abstained, for the present, from entering into the question of the composition of the present administration. In that administration lie had no confidence; but he felt bound not to state the reasons for that want of confidence until those members of the government to whose conduct he objected were present in that House, and had an opportunity of explaining the course they had pursued. He concluded, therefore, by renewing, in conjunction with his hon. and learned friend, his protest against that part of the Speech which alluded to the battle of Navarino.
Lord Palmerstonagreed, that it would be inexpedient to enter at present into many subjects which had been referred to in the course of the evening; but there
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were one or two points which had fallen from hon. gentlemen on the other side, which his sense of duty to the House would not allow him to pass unnoticed. Therefore he would not accept the invitation of the gallant member, to go at once into a relation of the circumstances which, had led to the recent change in his majesty's councils. Because, even if he were to succeed in satisfying the gallant member upon the subject, he should incur, and deservedly incur, the censure of the House. But, postponing that question as the noble lord opposite was disposed to do, until the parties concerned were present, he would merely call the attention of the House to a few accusations, proceeding from other quarters, which he considered to be groundless and unfounded. The hon. and learned member, seemed to think the Address objectionable, because it contained certain expressions, amounting to disapprobation, of a late important occurrence. Now, he could not but think that it would have been a great fault on the part of administration, if they had omitted to touch, in the royal Speech, upon a topic of so much public interest: and he was ready to admit, that it would have been improper in the mover or seconder, to have called upon the House to sanction any address, which would have committed the House upon a question of great national importance. But surely a very little of that critical examination which no man was more capable than the hon. and learned gentleman of employing, would convince him, that there was nothing in the present address which committed the House to any particular line of policy. The address only thanked his majesty for the communication he had been pleased to make, and did not commit the parties who supported it upon any point whatever. The hon. and learned gentleman had a peculiar pleasantry and humour in his attacks, which made them amusing, even to those at whom they were most especially pointed; but he certainly had not displayed good taste in the manner in which he had been pleased to advert to the military character of the duke of Wellington. The claims which that noble and gallant duke had established to the gratitude of this country, stood upon a basis too firm to be shaken by any taunts or sneers that might be thrown out against them. He was persuaded that the noble duke felt perfectly indifferent to the remarks of the hon. and learned gentleman, and that he might

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safely leave their answer to the good taste and intelligence of the House. There was one topic however upon which he was glad to be able to relieve the alarms of the hon. and learned gentleman. The military office formerly held by the noble duke would not be united to the political. The noble duke had tendered to the king his resignation of the office of commander-in-chief, on the same day that he had accepted that of first lord of the treasury; and although no successor to the post had as yet been appointed, the House might consider the resignation as virtually made: from the present time, the duke of Wellington would cease to be commander-in-chief. Therefore it was to be hoped that the fears of the hon. and learned gentleman, and his apprehensions of the dangerous consequences of the military, civil, and church patronage, being united in one individual, would cease also. Whatever danger there might be in such an event, the House, might be assured it was not about to occur.—Another objection taken by the hon. and learned gentleman to the present prime minister was, that the noble duke's habits and experience had been military, and not civil. But the hon. and learned gentleman himself had admitted, that, in the speech in which the noble duke, with an honourable modesty, had disclaimed the possession of talents which qualified him for the first situation in the country—the very terms and manner in which that disclaimer was made, showed that the modesty of the speaker far underrated his own capacities. And surely the personal knowledge of the hon. and learned gentleman must sufficiently instruct him, that the whole of the duke of Wellington's experience had not been confined to the army. The House at least would know, that there had been scarcely an important transaction in Europe for the last thirteen years in which the noble duke, at home or abroad, had not directly borne a part. The hon. and learned member could not surely recollect what had actually been the case, when he spoke of the experience of the duke of Wellington as having been entirely military. The hon. and learned gentleman, had been pleased to state, that he, for once, should prove a better tactician than the noble duke; and that he had got him into a dilemma, out of which it would not be easy for him to escape. Now, he denied the existence of any dilemma; there was no dilemma at all.
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The hon. and learned member said, that the Speech pronounced a condemnation upon the battle of Navarino. He asserted that it did not do so; that it censured, or condemned nothing. It contained no censure upon the treaty which had produced the battle, nor any blame of the gallant admiral who had commanded in it. The Speech said, that the conflict was unexpected; and, certainly, there could be no doubt that it had been so. Because, although some collision might have been expected, yet the affair of Navarino took place in a way which could not be expected. It had arisen out of a combination of circumstances which could not be foreseen; and therefore it must have been a collision entirely unexpected by the government. He thought it impossible that his majesty could be advised to allude to a battle taking place under such circumstances, without an expression of regret,—a battle, speaking without the smallest condemnation of it, which had taken place between his fleets, and the fleets of a country with which we were not only not at war, but with which we were absolutely on terms of alliance. The expressions used, did not mean any reflection upon the conduct of the gallant admiral commanding, and could not fairly be so construed. The honours sent out to the gallant admiral were a sufficient proof of this. Those testimonies proved that his skill and gallantry were duly appreciated. The gallant officer still continued in his situation of high and important trust. Would this be the case, if the government considered that any censure ought to be passed upon him? No censure was meant, nor was any expressed; and therefore the dilemma in which the hon. and learned member proposed to involve the government, was without existence. But the hon. and learned member's apprehensions were not confined to the treatment of the victors in the late engagement, or to the combination of power in the person of the duke of Wellington. He was alarmed for the general welfare of the state, and trusted that the new ministry were not returning to that system of foreign and domestic policy, which had proved so adverse to the best interests of the country. Nothing would be more improper than to declare beforehand what were the intentions of any administration; but when the House found the noble earl at the head of Foreign Affairs who had held, that situation in the ministry of Mr.

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Canning, the right hon. member for Liverpool continuing to be minister for the colonial department, and the same President of the Board of Trade charged with the direction of our commercial system, surely there was no reason to anticipate that those persons would depart from the principles upon which they had hitherto acted, and which had met, almost universally, with approbation and support. All he would say was —judge of the new government by its measures, not by the notions that any individuals may form of what those measures were to be. The hon. member for Corfe Castle had asked, whether we were at war or at peace with Turkey? Certainly, not at war. Our ambassador had quitted Constantinople; but no change had taken place in our policy. Therefore, we were still at peace. With respect to Greece, he would merely say, that the treaty and protocol would be laid before the House, but it was not intended at present to found any motion upon them. The negotiations connected with the treaty were not yet ended. There was no reason to believe that they would be ended, otherwise than to the advantage of the country; but it was possible that present discussion might operate prejudicially. If, under these circumstances, it should be thought advisable to bring forward any motion, ministers would be prepared to meet it; though they would not, at present, originate any themselves. The hon. member for Corfe Castle, had formerly stated, and now repeated, that the expedition to Portugal had been sent out in order to interfere with the internal arrangements of that country. He denied this. The expedition had been sent out to fulfil the treaty we had entered into to defend Portugal from external attack. He did not mean to say that he was not gratified by the course which affairs had taken in Portugal. It was satisfactory to see that country with something like a liberal form of government,—satisfactory, because he believed that our relations with every state were made more firm and safe by the admission of the people generally to some share in the government, or at least by giving the public voice the power of expression.
Mr. Broughamsaid, in explanation, that the noble lord had endeavoured to make it appear that he had spoken lightly of the military reputation of the duke of Wellington. Now, he asked every member, whether the words which he had used, did
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not bear an entirely opposite construction? He entirely agreed with the noble lord, that what he said could not matter to the duke of Wellington. All Europe was aware of the noble duke's talents and deserts; but it would matter considerably to him, if he should be supposed so foolish as to have uttered any sentiments but those of respect and gratitude to the duke for his military services. He had himself in that House, over and over again, when those with whom he was connected by party had been disposed to hang back, absolutely urged the government to place larger means at the disposal of the noble duke. What he had said on the present evening was in order to draw the line between the position of a finance minister and a commander-in-chief. If saying that the duke was not the best qualified to be a finance minister was attacking his military reputation, those who took it to be so gave a meaning to words which, in the ordinary usage of society, they did not bear.
Lord John Russellsaid, he would take that opportunity of entering his protest against the kind of declamation in which the noble Secretary at War had indulged when speaking of the duke of Wellington. He remembered very well when that noble duke last year proposed a clause in the Corn-bill, which was considered highly injurious to the commercial interests of the country, it was said, "how can gentlemen possibly make an objection to this clause, when they consider that this very day is the 18th of June, the anniversary of the battle of Waterloo?" Now, he felt great thanks were due to the duke for having gained that battle, but, nevertheless, the clause in the Corn-bill was a very injurious one to the country; and he protested against the practice hereafter, that, whenever the duke should propose any very objectionable measure, or make any financial blunder, as a prime minister, that the House should be met with a reference to his military services. The duke of Wellington having placed himself in a civil capacity, must submit to be judged of in that capacity. It was hardly necessary for him to say, that in all that the duke of Wellington might hereafter do, his past services, if not openly referred to, would not be the less remembered. But he could not help thinking, that those very habits of command which had been most befitting the noble duke in his military station, and

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to which much of his success probably had been owing, were likely to prove most; objectionable and dangerous in the situation of first minister of a free country. Neither was he entirely satisfied by the statement which the noble lord opposite had made on the subject of the command of the army. He must know how that situation was intended to be filled, before he should be convinced, that some part of the patronage of it would not still remain at the disposal of the duke of Wellington in his new capacity. He admitted that it was but fair to wait for the measures of the new ministry before the House decided upon its character. He certainly saw symptoms of danger in the formation of the government; but he would not make up his mind definitively until he saw it act. There was one point which he would just mention, not less on account of its vital importance, than because it had not been noticed in the Speech from the Throne. He meant the condition of Ireland. No government should have his support, which did not adopt measures to improve the situation of that country. With regard to the affair of Navarino, he regretted the phrase made use of in the Speech. He was bound to take the meaning of the words from the noble lord opposite; but certainly, if they were not intended to intimate, that the gallant admiral who fought that battle had fought it without instructions and unadvisedly, they were the most unlucky words, for their real purpose, that could possibly have been chosen. For himself, he believed the battle to have been a glorious victory, and a necessary consequence of the treaty of London; and moreover, as honest a victory as had ever been gained since the beginning of the world. With respect to the affairs of Portugal, he congratulated the House upon the termination of that affair, and of the probable restoration to peace and security of our ancient ally. This last expression put him in mind of a rather ludicrous mistake which was commonly made, in discussing the affairs of Turkey. Turkey was constantly spoken of as our "ancient ally." Now, the fact was, that there had never been any alliance between Turkey and this country prior to the year 1799; and it was not twenty years since Air. Arbuthnot had been compelled to fly privately from Constantinople, from the fear that his safety would be endangered, by a violation of the rights of ambassadors.
Mr. Calcraftsaid, that he also was desirous, like his noble friend, of seeing, what measures the administration intended to propose before he venture4 to pronounce condemnation. He would go, further, and say, that from the introduction into it of many of his friends, whom he supported in the late administration, he had a favourable impression of the course which they intended to pursue; and he trusted he should be able to give them his support. He concurred in what had fallen from the noble lord who preceded him, in what he had said respecting the gallant admiral who had fought the battle of Navarin. But, the object of the treaty was the maintenance of peace, and a good understanding with Turkey; this action, therefore, must certainly be acknowledged to be an untoward circumstance in that point of view, and he confessed he thought it was very natural and proper that it should be spoken of in the speech from the throne, as it had been. With regard to the office of commander-in-chief, he was happy to hear that it had been resigned by the noble duke who now occupied the first office in the state. With respect to Portugal, he perfectly agreed in what had fallen from the noble lord who spoke last. Our troops were returning home, after having performed the service which they were sent on, to the advantage of Portugal and the honour of England. This country had no other course to take than that she had taken: the alternative of honour or disgrace was open to her; she had taken the path of honour, and every one must rejoice at the result.
Lord Normanbysaid, he had entered the House without the slightest intention of saying a word on the present occasion, and would certainly have adhered to his resolution but for what had fallen from the hon. gentleman who had just sat down. For his part, he could only say, that he had no confidence in the present government: he had no confidence in the composition of the ministry, and could not give them his support. He could not address the House, for the first time since the death of the late lamented premier, without expressing his deep regret at the loss which the country had experienced. A remnant of that right hon. gentleman's friends were left, and he should have expected much from them, were it not for the connections which they had lately formed.
The Address was then agreed to.