Commons Sitting of 21 March 1825

CIVIL CONTINGENCIES—DIPLOMATIC EXPENDITURE.
The House resolved itself into a committee of Supply. On the resolution "That 160,000 l. be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge of Civil Contingencies, for the year 1825,"
Mr. Humeobserved, that this grant was one of those which the committee generally voted on the credit of the minister, and on which members were obliged to confine their comments, rather to the expenditure of the past than to the estimate of the coming year. On looking at our diplomatic expenditure, of which part came under this grant, he was compelled to say, that it far exceeded what the country required. The country could not be aware of the sums which it annually paid to its residents at foreign courts: if it were, he was sure there would be a loud demand for its diminution. He could see a reason why it was formerly necessary for this country to have a resident at the different courts of the petty sovereigns of Germany; but he could see no reason why we should not withdraw them at present; since it was notorious, that those sovereigns had now no will of their own, but merely moved as the holy alliance pleased

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to direct them. Our diplomatic expenditure for the present year amounted to 300,000 l. Now, for this extravagant expenditure we had no balance, no return; and therefore it was, that he called upon the committee to examine into its details. If, in 1816, when it was proposed to bring within bounds the diplomatic expenditure of the country, any one had said that the same rate of expenditure would be continued for five or six years longer, no body would have credited the assertion; and yet, such had actually been the case; for in the last seven years we had expended 2,060,000 l. in payment of our ambassadors alone. Surely, some mode of retrenching this expenditure ought to be devised, in order to rid the country of some of the vexatious taxes which pressed so heavily on individuals. He complained of the manner in which the accounts of the diplomatic expenditure were intermingled with those of other departments of the state. For instance, in one class of the civil list, 226,000 l. was annually charged for the expenses of our ambassadors. Now, in addition to this sum, bills were annually sent in from each of our residents, which readied a most unwarrantable amount. In 1792, they were but 5,900 l. In 1818, they had reached 27,000 l.; but, in the last year, they had reached the extraordinary sum of 80,000 l. So that our diplomatic expenditure at present amounted to somewhere about 312,000 l.; and this, too, exclusively of the 60,000 l. which was now wanted for the establishments of our different consuls in South America. He had no hesitation in saying, that our diplomacy for the current year would, in some way or other, cost us 400,000 l. He contended, that the right hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs would consult the interest of the public, by withdrawing our ministers from the petty states of Germany. A fund would thus be created for defraying the expenses of our new diplomatic relations with South America; which, if they were not so defrayed, must ultimately become a burthen upon the country.
Mr. Secretary Canningsaid, that the House had, in the year 1816, minutely examined the whole diplomatic branch of the public expenditure, and laid down a scale for its future arrangement. It was therefore by the result of that investigation that they ought to judge of the present establishment. He could assure the House, that he had guided himself by
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the scale then laid down, in all his arrangements, and had endeavoured, as much as possible, to make such retrenchments as could be made consistently with the public exigencies. With reference to the expense of the different public missions to South America, that was a completely new subject—one of such large extent, and as yet so unexplored, that it was premature to call upon him, either to say, whether any given sum in the shape of a vote should be deemed the utmost extent which the public would be called on to pay, or whether there might be a possibility of diminishing any of the missions already established among those new governments. He could, however, assure the hon. member, that he had carefully examined the allowances given in this branch of the public service, and was of opinion that they might be considered as regulated rather below than above the fair principle of remuneration. It was, he thought, quite clear, with reference to these new governments, that, if this country was disposed to encourage a close connexion with them, we must be prepared to meet the necessary burthens of the new expenditure arising out of such closer connexion. It was, however, as he had already said, a new and unexamined part of the public expenditure at present. As to what the hon. gentleman had said of seeking to defray the expense of this new part of the public service, by a retrenchment out of the diplomatic missions among the smaller states of Europe, he was quite surprised at such a proposition. The hon. gentleman must feel, that, in many of these missions to the smaller powers, there was involved a larger question than the mere expense of diplomacy, which would retard any wish of abandoning the subsisting diplomatic connexion with the minor courts. It was surprising to hear such a wish hinted from the hon. member; who was always the advocate of preserving the independence of this part of the lesser European confederacy, by the aid of British influence. Such a retrenchment as the hon. gentleman had alluded to, would amount, if carried into effect, to an abandonment of public duty. Indeed, he thought that the good-will of those powers was well purchased by the comparatively trifling expense of the diplomatic establishments which it had been their policy to maintain in them; and he could assure the hon. gentleman, that in the three instances in which he had reduced

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the expense of these missions, it had cost the British government great pains to convince the courts where reductions had taken effect, that it was not thereby intended to lower them in the estimation of Great Britain, or of the other larger states in Europe. With respect to the Paris mission, he was entirely confident, that the late ambassador would have been unable, without the aid of his private property, to have sustained the dignity of his diplomatic station out of the allowances which were assigned by the government for his use; and as to the present ambassador, with whose private affairs he was better acquainted, he could assure the hon. gentleman, that that noble lord would feel himself perfectly satisfied, if in addition to his allowance of 11,000 l., he had not one half as much more, perhaps entirely as much more, to supply from his private fortune. He agreed in the propriety of selecting men of independent fortunes to fill such high offices; but he would add, that they ought not, by undue reductions, to make those offices unfit for others who might be called, without such private advantages, into the service of their country. He thought it was most desirable that the sovereign should be enabled to select the men best qualified to discharge those duties, without reference to accidental advantages, and always to have the office placed upon that proper scale, which would enable such persons to perform its functions in a becoming and honourable manner. He repeated, that he had always endeavoured to regulate this department with reference to the scale agreed upon in 1816; but he must say, that he did not think the mere mention of particular sums in its expenditure, with a circumscribed reference to particular and evanescent circumstances, was the proper way in which the country ought to estimate such matters, either with justice to the individuals, or with reference to the honour and utility of the public service.
Mr. Humesaid, there was another item to which he wished to call the attention of his majesty's government. He alluded to the item of 8,247 l. for paying the expenses of the Spanish commission for investigating the claims of British merchants. Where were those commissioners? and what had they done?
Mr. Canningsaid, that though he could not, perhaps, give as satisfactory an account of the progress of these commissioners
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as might be wished, yet he hoped he could explain both the nature and propriety, as well as necessity, of their appointment. Among other concessions which it had been found difficult to obtain from Spain, there was one that always had been of most difficult persuasion — namely, the tender of pecuniary compensation. It would be recollected, that a few years ago, many British ship-owners had incurred heavy losses, by captures made upon them by Spanish subjects, contrary to the law of nations. They naturally solicited the protection of their own government to obtain redress, and various applications had, in consequence, been made to the then Spanish authorities. After this course had been duly taken, and no proper redress afforded, the government felt itself called upon to issue an order to the British commander-in-chief on the West-India station, to make reprisals upon the commerce of the Spanish islands, to the amount of the British claimants; but it was thought reasonable, when this order was issued, and before it was carried into execution, that the government of Spain should be informed of the fact, before summary measures of redress were resorted to. This led to a further negotiation: in the first stage of which, the Spanish government conceded an acknowledgment of the principle of the British claims, and abandoned that denial of justice which was their previous ground. The matter was then referred, upon the admission of the principle, to a convention, which was to inquire into the specific extent of the losses, for the purpose of their eventual liquidation. During the preliminary proceedings, and before this convention was in progress of execution, the Spanish government underwent a change, and the king of Spain upon his restoration, annulled all the acts of the preceding government; but, subsequently, this single convention was again recognized: indeed, it was the only act of his predecessors which his Spanish majesty had admitted. The convention being thus resumed, the commissioners went to work, but slowly, from the peculiar circumstances under which they had to act. Months were lost before the king of Spain had appointed new commissioners; and he was sorry to say, that, even during the last year, the Spanish commissioners had been changed no less than three times. Notwithstanding these impediments to the execution of the convention, he was glad to state, that of the claims of Brit-

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ish merchants, estimated at upwards of 400,000 l., nearly 200,000 l. had been investigated and admitted, by the Spanish authorities—he wished he could add, paid; but money was not easily obtained of late in that quarter. That the whole of the claims would be acknowledged he had no doubt, and he did not absolutely despair of their ultimate adjustment. This object had never been lost sight of by the British government; and had been retarded owing to the untoward circumstances which he had already explained. As to the expenses of the commissioners, they would not be ultimately defrayed by the public generally, but by a per centage levied upon the amount of claims, which was the object of the investigation.
Mr. Humeobjected to the grant of 1,034 l. to the Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's, for cleaning and taking care of the monuments in that cathedral. He would submit to the committee, whether there was any possible pretence for making such a grant. The pretensions put forth by the Chapter were certainly of the most extraordinary description. They held, that they had a right to dispose of whatever monuments were placed in the cathedral. The public, for great national objects, had thought it advisable to expend some hundred thousand pounds in the erection of monuments to the memory of those who had achieved great actions, and had devoted themselves to the interests of the country, and the Chapter of St. Paul's arrogated to themselves the right of doing with the national monuments whatever their prejudices, their caprices, or their sordid interests might dictate. The pretensions of this body were certainly most modest. They would not admit that these national monuments, paid for out of the national funds, were in any respect public property; and assuming a right of ownership, they would not allow the public to see them, without paying a fee of admission. The contempt and indignation of the whole country at this paltry and arrogant conduct, had been expressed in every shape, by the press and otherwise; and as the public feeling had not, in the slightest manner, affected the conduct of the Chapter, he would take the sense of the committee upon this grant. He trusted, that the chancellor of the Exchequer would explain the grounds upon which the Chapter presumed to lay such a tax upon the community, and to what fund or account that tax was carried.
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Whatever might be the amount of this imposition, the principle of it was most odious, and reflected the greatest disgrace upon the body that levied it, and upon the government that permitted the imposition.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerexpressed himself unable to account precisely for the application of this levy upon the public. It was incumbent upon the Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's to maintain that cathedral in repair, and the keeping of such a building in repair was no small expense. Lately, the building had undergone considerable repair, and from its altitude, it might be conceived that the expense had been considerable. The charge of cleaning and keeping in good condition the numerous monuments in that public edifice was very large. It did seem to him, that the monuments of the country, placed in the great national cathedral in consequence of addresses to the throne, to commemorate splendid actions, ought to be open to the public at large; otherwise the very object of erecting them was defeated. At the same time it was not proper, because such monuments were placed in St. Paul's, that the Dean and Chapter should have imposed upon them the expense of keeping them in repair. However, he was not bound to be responsible for the manner in which the Dean and Chapter exercised their duty; and certainly he was very little inclined to take upon himself any such responsibility for their conduct with relation to the present subject. The Dean and Chapter of Westminster were bound to maintain the Abbey in a proper state; but he was very far from asserting, that they gave to the public the necessary facilities in viewing either the edifice or its monuments. He was aware that very serious complaints had been made in every direction upon this subject, and he was compelled to say, that when he had visited the cathedral with a view of looking at the national monuments, the exhibition had been conducted very carelessly, and in a manner that reflected no honour upon those who had the control of the arrangements. The whole system, at both cathedrals, was conducted in a manner that he by no means approved of: but he did not see that he had any power to require the Dean and Chapter either to reduce their fees, or to alter their management.
Mr. Humewas happy to hear so well-deserved a chastisement bestowed upon the

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avarice of the Dean and Chapter. The explanation of the right hon. gentleman was not sufficient. They had ample revenues to keep up the church, allowances far beyond the intentions of the founders of any such buildings in any Christian community. They were literally wallowing in wealth. Why should the public be burthened with charges, on account of so rich a body of men?
Mr. W. Smithsaid, it was indeed high time to take up this subject of the exhibition of public monuments in a more serious way; and, if no other way offered, he advised that it should be done by a committee of the House.
Sir J. Sebrightstated, that, whenever he had conducted foreigners through these splendid buildings, in order to shew them the monuments, so honourable to the country, he had felt thoroughly ashamed at the principle of pecuniary exaction established by the Dean and Chapter, and equally mortified at the whole system upon which these national exhibitions were conducted.
Mr. Humeobserved, that as the chancellor of the Exchequer had the power of putting a stop to the abuse by withholding the grant of the public money, his inserting this sum in the vote, was a proof that he encouraged the practice of an abuse, which he could not defend in the House.
The several resolutions were agreed to.

COLONIAL POLICY OF THE COUNTRY.
The House having resolved itself into a committee to consider of the acts 3rd Geo. IV. cap. 44 and 45,
Mr. Huskissonspoke in substance as follows:*—Although, Sir, the Resolutions with which I shall conclude the observations which I am now about to submit to the committee, are in strict accordance with the recommendation in his majesty's speech from the throne, and with the disposition of this House, in respect to the removal of restrictions upon commerce; I am afraid that it will be necessary for me to trespass, more at length than I could wish, upon the indulgence of the committee.
Considering the many important interests that may be affected, the alarms that may possibly be excited, the predilections that may be awakened, the prejudices
*From the original edition, printed for J. Hatchard & Son, Piccadilly.
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that may be roused, by the measures which it is now my duty to propose, I am sure the committee will forgive me if I dwell upon explanations and statements, which might, otherwise, appear to be uncalled-for by the occasion.
I can assure the committee that if I am about to recommend alterations which are at variance with the ancient sentiments of this country, in respect to colonial policy and trade, it is not because I consider the views of our ancestors as necessarily erroneous, or that innovation must necessarily be improvement; but it is, because the circumstances and state of the world, in which we have to examine colonial interests, have changed; and it becomes us, as practical statesmen, to deal with those interests with a reference to that change. It is only in this sense, and with this qualification, that I desire to be looked upon as an innovator. I am not anxious to give effect to new principles where circumstances do not call for their application; feeling as I do, from no small experience in public business—and every day confirms that feeling—how much, in the vast and complex interests of this country, all general theories, however incontrovertible in the abstract, require to be weighed with a calm circumspection, to be directed by a temperate discretion, and to be adapted to all the existing relations of society, with a careful hand, and a due regard to the establishments and institutions which have grown up under those relations.
It was under these impressions, that, in conformity to the notice which I had given, I intended this evening to have requested the attention of the committee to the following subjects: First, The system of our commercial policy in respect to our colonies. Secondly, The expediency of revising many of the duties now payable upon the import of the raw materials used in our manufactures, and of relaxing the prohibitory duties, which, under the name of protection, are now enforced against the manufactured productions of other countries; and, Thirdly, The means of affording some further degree of relief and assistance to the interests of our shipping and navigation. From the bearing of these subjects upon each other, it would certainly have been convenient to have taken them in connexion; but, considering the numerous topics which they embrace, I cannot hope, rising at this late hour, that the patience of the committee

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can be sustained, whilst I advert to them all. I shall therefore, with your permission, confine myself this evening to the first, and in many respects, the most important, head of inquiry—our Colonial System—and postpone the two other branches till Friday next.
It must be well known to every gentleman who hears me, that the long-established policy of all the European powers possessing colonies in the New World, and of this country among the rest, was that of an entire and rigid exclusion of those colonies from all commercial intercourse, except with the mother country. To uphold this exclusion, and to forbid all such intercourse, seemed of the very essence of colonization. In the strict, and even inhospitable enforcement of this principle, Spain, with the largest colonial possessions in the world, shewed herself most determined, and, if I may use the expression, most exclusive. But, without being equally jealous, other powers were not less tenacious of the principle. I cannot give a stronger proof of this, than by reminding the committee, that this exclusive intercourse was held to be a part of the international law of Europe. In our Prize-courts it has been commonly referred to, and acted upon, as the rule of the Seven-years' War. Under this rule, the colony of a belligerent could not claim to carry on trade through the intervention of a neutral, because that neutral was not permitted to participate in such trade in time of peace. But if this has been the long-established basis of the colonial system, need I state the vast inroads which have been made upon this system within the last fifteen years? Let the committee look at the Brazils, that immense country, which was held by Portugal under a strict exclusion, till the migration of the royal family from Lisbon to Rio de Janeiro, in 1808. Let them look at the large and fertile island of St. Domingo; to the present state of those extended regions on the continent of America, lately as colonies of Spain, shut out from all intercourse with the rest of the world. Again, let them look at Cuba, and the islands which have continued their allegiance to the Spanish crown, the trade with which is now open. Considering this almost general revolution in the system of colonial commerce—considering the influence of such a revolution upon the commerce of our own colonies, upon the commerce of rival nations, upon the views, and feel-
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ings, and speculations, of the mercantile part of the community, and of our own colonial population, is it not enough, of itself, to warrant, at least, the inquiry, whether so great a change in all around us does not call for some change on our part? I will not now examine how far this inquiry is become necessary, in consequence of our pretensions to participate in the commerce of these foreign colonies, and by the fact of our so participating; or how far, in fairness and impartiality, justice, and that duty, which power, above all, owes to weakness, require that we should reciprocate the benefits which we exact.
These considerations, however important, do not perhaps immediately belong to the present discussion, viewed as a commercial question; but there is another inquiry which, in this point of view at least, it becomes us not to neglect. Have the colonies, of which the trade has been thrown open, benefited by this enlargement of their intercourse? Are they likely to benefit still more? Rivals in the same productions, competitors in the same markets, can we, in the long-run, with our system of monopoly, stand against their freedom of trade? If we cannot, are we not risking the good-will and attachment of our colonies, as well as the interests of our commerce? Is perseverance in such a system, politically wise, or practically safe? Is the great change, begun half a century ago, and still in progress, in the political and commercial state of the vast continent of America, from the Gulph of St. Lawrence to Cape Horn, to lead to no change in our mode of administering the extensive possessions, both continental and insular, which remain under our dominion and protection in that quarter of the globe? Do the immense and rapidly growing commerce and navigation of the United States of America, suggest no matter for consideration, in reference to our own commercial and naval interests? These are important questions, which, in the department allotted to me in the public service, I have asked myself, as a minister of the Crown, and which I now feel it my duty to recommend to the most serious, consideration of this committee.
Recollecting that, for centuries, it has been a settled maxim of public policy, in all great states having dependencies, to make the interests of those dependencies subservient to the interests, or the sup-

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posed interests, of the parent state; there is, perhaps, no country where the consequences of perseverance in such a system, on the one hand, and of its relaxation, on the other, can be so forcibly illustrated as in our own.
In the first place, let us look at Ireland, till the year 1782, a dependency of Great Britain, in the sense which I have described. It was so not only in fact, but in law, and under the express provision of a statute (6 George 1, cap. 5), entitled, "An Act for the better securing the dependency of the kingdom of Ireland upon the crown of Great Britain." The many other causes which contributed to keep that fertile island in a state of misery and depression I shall pass by, on the present occasion; but is it not a well-known fact, that, till the year 1780, the agriculture, the internal industry, the manufactures, the commerce, the navigation of Ireland, were all held in the most rigid subserviency to the supposed interests of Great Britain? In the year 1778, indeed, it was proposed in the British parliament, so far to relax this exclusive system, as to allow Ireland to import sugar directly from our West-India colonies, for her own use; and, in payment for such sugar, to export her own produce and manufactures (woollens excepted) to those colonies; and further, to allow her to export glass, and some other articles of her own manufacture, directly to foreign parts. What was the reception which these proposals met with in the House of Commons, and on the part of the trading and manufacturing interests of this country? In this House, the opponents of these limited concessions, enumerating the boons which had already been conferred upon Ireland, declared, that to grant any more would be fatal to the commerce and manufactures of England. And what were those mighty boons, beyond which we could not, with safety to ourselves, venture to be liberal to others? Why, that we already allowed the Irish to send their beef and butter to our colonies—a permission, however, only granted from year to year, since the breaking out of the American war — and that we further permitted them to clothe, with articles of their own manufacture, the troops on the Irish establishment, paid and provided by that country, but then serving with our army in North America. To be sure, as compared with these indulgences, the measures then proposed were extravagantly
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rash and liberal. But were they acceded to by the House? No, Sir. Our merchants and manufacturers, our ship-owners, our country gentlemen —all took the alarm.—All were to be ruined, if we granted the proposed participation to a country almost without any debt, not paying the same taxes with ourselves—a country in which so many of the population were without employment, and where, from these causes, wages were so much lower, and provisions so much cheaper, than in England. Resting upon these and other grounds, petitions poured in from all quarters, and the House was deterred from proceeding with the proposed measures in that session. I have had the curiosity to look back to some of the leading petitions on that occasion. The merchants of Glasgow pray, "that, neither the present, nor any future advantage should be granted to Ireland, which might, in the least degree, operate to the disadvantage of Great Britain:"—so far I go along with them in principle, and I only quote this sentence to show the doctrine then universally assumed—that, in commerce, one country could not be liberal to another, without sacrificing its own interests; and, accordingly, the good people of Glasgow, in those days, maintained, that they had an hereditary right in the sugar trade, and claimed its exclusive possession, for the people of Great Britain, as a property in which Ireland never could be allowed the smallest participation. The language of Manchester was still more decided in reprobating the proposed concession.—With the loyal people of that town, it appeared to involve almost a question of allegiance. Liverpool, also, did not hesitate to predict, that, by the adoption of the proposals, "That town and port would speedily be reduced to their original insignificance."
In the year 1779, a more limited concession to Ireland was proposed in the British House of Commons. It went no further than to allow the Irish to bring sugar directly from our colonies, limiting the supply to their own consumption; but even this measure was negatived upon a division. Towards the close of that year, the events of the war in North America, and the state of things in Ireland, produced a different feeling in the British parliament. State necessity, acting under a sense of political danger, yielded, without grace, that which good sense and good feeling had before recommended in

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vain: and in 1782, under the like pressure, these concessions, fortunately wise in themselves, were rendered irrevocable by the repeal of the statute of the 6th George 1.
I will not detain the committee with further details of the progressive measures by which, since that period, all the remaining restraints on the commerce, the agriculture, and the industry of Ireland, have been gradually removed, up to the termination of the Union Duties in the course of last year, and the placing of her commercial intercourse with Great Britain upon the footing of a coasting trade. Many of these restraints, now happily at an end, were too long retained by ignorance and prejudice, by violence and faction, sometimes on the one side, and sometimes on the other. But I would ask any man, the most devoted to the tenets of the old school of commerce, whether he is prepared to maintain that this relaxation, which it was so confidently predicted would be fatal to all the great interests of Great Britain, has not contributed at least as much to augment her wealth and power in agriculture, in shipping, in commerce, and in manufactures, as it has to promote, in all these branches, the advancement of Ireland? I would ask those, whom I am proud and happy to designate as my present enlightened constituents at Liverpool, to look back to the fears which agitated the generation which preceded them—to compare with the predictions of those fears the present life and bustle of their commerce—to estimate how much of its unparalleled prosperity, unparalleled in the rapidity of its growth, is due to the freedom of commercial intercourse with that country, from the first earnest of which their predecessors anticipated nothing short of annihilation?
The committee must be aware that, in tracing the advantages which both countries have derived from the removal of all exclusive restraints upon the commerce of Ireland, I am stating a case, in which the progress of relaxation, begun forty-five years ago, and scarcely yet complete, had to encounter many peculiar disadvantages. Among other drawbacks, the committee will recollect the ravages of a rebellion, destructive alike of property and of confidence; the drains of a long and expensive foreign war, to which the resources of Ireland were inadequate:—and yet how much has been done towards
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laying the foundations of her future, and, now I trust, not distant prosperity? How much for the mutual and concurrent advancement of both parts of the united kingdom in the scale of opulence and power, instead of leaving them in the state of disgraceful contrast to one another?—a contrast perilous to both, and most unjust to the weaker country—in which they must have remained, had Great Britain persevered, as at one time it was but too much her disposition to persevere, in her ancient system of commercial policy towards Ireland.
If from Ireland we turn our eyes to those provinces, which, little more than forty years ago, ceased to be colonial dependencies of Great Britain—whatever we may think of the proceedings which induced them to resort to arms against the mother country—whatever may have been the faults, on either side, which led to that appeal — whatever may, now, be our retrospective opinion of the justice, the policy, or the conduct of the American war — whatever feelings may have existed, at any time, of humiliation and regret, that, by the issue of that war, these fine provinces were, for ever, wrested from his majesty's crown—I would ask any man, whether, abstractedly from these feelings, the disseverance of the United States from the British empire, viewed as a mere question of commerce, has been an injury to this country?—Whether their emancipation from the commercial thraldom of the colonial system has really been prejudicial to the trade and industry of Great Britain? If the answer must be, that it has not been prejudicial, is there no useful admonition to be derived from this example?—Contemplate the possibility of another set of provinces, emancipated from commercial thraldom, but firmly maintaining their political connexion— their commercial marine a part of our commercial marine—their seamen a part of our seamen—their population a part of our strength.—Consider whether it be not worth while to attempt a course which promises, both to those provinces and to the mother country, all the commercial benefits of a free trade, together with all the political advantages of our continuing parts of one great empire, and enjoying alike, under the sway and protection of the same sovereign, all the rights and privileges of British subjects.
Looking to what the United States now are, as a political and maritime power in

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the New World,—to the state of other countries in that hemisphere—to their increasing relations with the Old World,—to the intercourse which, in the next fifty years, will probably grow up in the Pacific, between the west of America and the east of Asia—to the British interests, both of commerce and political power, which are involved in all these changes and occurrences, I trust that I shall not be considered as losing sight of the business of this evening, or as harbouring any unfriendly feeling towards the United States, if I look also to the means by which, in a race of fair and honorable rivalry and competition of our commerce and navigation with the commerce and navigation of the United States, these great interests of the British empire are most likely to be maintained.
From all the experience which we can collect from the conduct of this country, in respect to Ireland, and to its colonies, —from all that we witness of what is passing in the colonies of other states, I come clearly to this conclusion—that so far as the colonies themselves are concerned, their prosperity is cramped and impeded by the old system of exclusion and monopoly; and I feel myself equally warranted in my next inference, that whatever tends to increase the prosperity of the colonies, cannot fail, in the long run, to advance, in an equal degree, the general interests of the parent state.
Requesting the committee to bear in mind these general inferences, I will now state how far we have already relaxed the old rigour of colonial exclusion, and how much further I propose to proceed in this career. By the acts which have been read (3 Geo. 4, c. 44 and 45), we have permitted, First, An intercourse between any countries in America, and our colonies, in the ships of those countries, or in British ships; but the first of these acts requires, that the intercourse, at least in the foreign vessel, should be direct from the colony to the country to which the vessel belongs; and it limits very much the articles which can be imported into the colony, according to schedules in which the articles are enumerated; and, Secondly, We have permitted a direct trade from the colonies, in articles of their growth or production, to the ports of foreign Europe; but this trade is confined to British ships, which may also carry from those ports, direct to the colonies, certain enumerated articles of foreign growth.
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From this statement, the committee will perceive that, in allowing the countries of America to trade with our colonies in their own vessels, we have, in fact, conceded to the navigation of the United States a privilege which is not granted to any state in Europe; and this privilege, though nominally extended to all the countries of America, is really a boon to the United States alone, as the other countries have, as yet, scarcely any commercial marine. What has hitherto been the return made by the United States for this indulgence? In the first session of their congress, which followed the opening of this trade by our act of parliament, they passed a law, imposing alien duties in their ports upon all British ships which might trade between those ports and our colonies, to be levied until the productions of the United States should be admitted into our colonies, upon the same terms and duties as the like productions of any other country, meaning, thereby, the like productions not of any other foreign country, but of our own country, or of our own provinces in North America. This is a pretension unheard of in the commercial relations of independent states. It is just as unreasonable as it would be, on our part, to require that sugar or rum, from our West-India islands, should be admitted at New York upon the same terms and duties as the like articles, the growth and production of Louisiana, or any other of the twenty-four separate states which now constitute the federal Union. Whatever may have been the arguments used to induce the American Congress to adopt this course, their real reason for making the attempt was, I am persuaded, an impression on their part, that we had yielded this intercourse to necessity, and, that, as our colonies could not subsist without it, they might prescribe the conditions under which it should be carried on. To meet this unexpected proceeding on the part of the United States, we were driven to one of these two courses—either again to prohibit the intercourse with them altogether, or, to retaliate the alien duties imposed upon British shipping, by subjecting to the like duties American ships entering the ports of our colonies. Neither of these expedients were in themselves desirable, but we preferred the latter; first, as the mildest, and because the American government manifested a disposition to negociate upon the subject; and secondly, because

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a more comprehensive measure, for giving a wider opening to the intercourse of other countries with our colonies, was in contemplation; such a measure as, if adopted, must take away all pretext on the part of the United States for continuing these alien duties, and show them, that, if they do not choose to trade with our colonies upon equal terms with other countries, the colonies can do without their trade altogether.
After this explanation of the mode in which the permission given to the United States to trade in their own ships with our colonies has been received by the government of that country, I would ask the committee, independently of all general considerations, why are we to refuse the like indulgence to the ships of European states? Are we more jealous of the navigation of Denmark, Sweden, Russia, Holland, or the Hans Towns, than of that of the United States? Are we anxious to promote the one, at the expense of repressing the other? Is it fair or politic to grant to the one what we withhold from the other? I think that every man who understands the political interests of England, as connected with the maintenance of her naval power, must be satisfied that this cannot be a wise policy.
There can, therefore, be no doubt that it would be expedient to permit the same latitude of trade to the ships of other countries, as is now allowed to those of the United States. But I go further; I am prepared to open the commerce of our colonies to all friendly states, upon the same principle (though of course with some difference in the detail of its modifications), upon which they are at liberty to trade with Jersey, or with Ireland. With the exception of some articles which it will be necessary to prohibit, such as fire-arms and ammunition of war generally, and sugar, rum, & c. in the sugar colonies,—I propose to admit a free intercourse between all our colonies and other countries, either in British ships, or in the ships of those countries, allowing the latter to import all articles, the growth, produce, or manufacture of the country to which the ship belongs, and to export from such colonies all articles whatever of their growth, produce, or manufacture, either to the country from which such ship came, or to any other part of the world, the United Kingdom and all its dependencies excepted. All intercourse between the mother country and the
1108
colonies, whether direct or circuitous, and all intercourse of the colonies with each other, will be considered as a coasting trade to be reserved entirely and absolutely to ourselves. By this arrangement, the foundation of our navigation laws will be preserved, whilst the colonies will enjoy a free trade with foreign countries, without breaking in upon the great principle of those laws, in respect to foreign trade—that the cargo must be the produce of the country to which the ship belongs, leaving the national character of the ship to be determined by the rules which apply in like cases in this country. The importation of foreign goods into the colonies, I propose, should be made subject to moderate duties, but such as may be found sufficient for the fair protection of our own productions of the like nature. The duties, already established by the acts to which I have referred, it is proposed to leave as they are, and to establish a further scale of ad valorem duties, varying from 7½ to 30 per cent upon all articles, the importation of which, from foreign countries, has hitherto been prohibited. The particulars of these duties will be found in the resolutions. They will, of course, form part of the revenues of the respective colonies in which they may be collected, upon the same principle, and subject to the same system of appropriation by the legislatures of those colonies, as the duties already collected, under the acts of the 3rd of the king.
It is for the colonies that the benefit of these arrangements is intended; the duties will form a revenue which will be theirs, and will be carried to their account. They can, therefore, have no jealousy of the new system as one likely to trench upon their constitutional privileges in those respects.
With the further view of encouraging our own trade, and that of the colonies, with the countries of South America, I also propose to extend to certain ports in those colonies the benefits and regulations of our warehousing system, as it is now established in this country, by allowing goods from all parts of the world to be bonded, and deposited in warehouses, without payment of duty till proper opportunities of selling or exporting them, to advantage, shall occur. Looking to the present state of the countries lately belonging to Spain, this system must he attended with extraordinary advantages. The wants of those vast countries are

1109
numerous; they embrace almost every object of European assortment; but in the present state of society, from the want of capital, and individual credit, and from other causes, these wants are best supplied, as it were, in retail, and by small deliveries frequently renewed. A large cargo, sent directly from England to any of their ports, is not easily disposed of; it gluts the market. It is very desirable, therefore, that the warehousing system should be established in the ports of our colonies with which these countries can most easily and frequently communicate. The Americans have found the benefit of tin's mode of carrying on traffic, with the late Spanish provinces, from New Orleans; a port which now engrosses a considerable portion of this trade, though not so conveniently situated for the purpose, as some of the ports which we possess in the Gulph of Mexico.
It is not to be dissembled that this is a great change in our colonial system. Should it be adopted by parliament, it will operate somewhat differently in our sugar islands, and in those extensive continental possessions, the provinces of British North America. By opening to our sugar colonies a trade with all other countries, we shall afford them, in the increased competition and economy of a direct trade, a better chance of supplying their wants on reasonable terms, and of finding a demand for their surplus productions. We shall accomplish, I verily believe, though not perhaps at first, the establishment of a new course of trade, as well as of a more extended system of commission and agency, in those colonies. Mercantile houses will be formed in the principal ports, both to supply the wants of the colonies, and to watch, for their own speculations in the general markets of the world, the fluctuations of demand and price in those articles which the West Indies supply. Every step in this change will contribute to introduce a greater proportion and a better description of white population, and gradually, I should hope, to diffuse a new spirit of enterprise, not only in commerce, but in agriculture, —to stimulate endeavours to raise other productions (indigo and silk, for instance), besides sugar, which will increase the cultivation and wealth of those colonies. On the part of the mother country, it will be wise to give every degree of proper encouragement to these new sources of improvement. They will not only add to
1110
the value of property in that part of the world, but they will gradually meliorate the moral condition of society, and, by consequence, the internal security of these possessions. It is under these impressions that I shall propose, in revising other duties of customs with a view to the relief of trade, considerably to reduce the duties payable in this country upon many of the minor productions of the West Indies, such as are generally raised by the negroes and people of colour for their own account, or by small white proprietors residing on the spot; in the hope that such a reduction, by increasing the consumption, will contribute to increase the cultivation of these articles, as well as the comforts of those classes by whom they are raised.
These, it may be objected, are but vague and speculative improvements, which may never be realized.—It may be so; but if I am called upon to point out specifically the precise mode and course of operations by which the benefits of this new system are to make their way in the West-Indies, I have no hesitation to avow, that I can do no such thing. Yet in making this avowal, let me remind the committee that, in 1813, when upon the renewal of the East India company's charter, their monopoly of trade was greatly relaxed, the wisest and most experienced men in that trade could not point out, precisely, what new channels of commerce could be opened with the East Indies. Nay, they denied that any new channels could be explored by the private trader, or that any benefits could accrue to India from the relaxation of the former monopoly. But new channels have been explored, new benefits have been conferred;—proving, as the history of all modern commerce proves, that whenever you give a free scope to capital, to industry, to the stirring intelligence and active spirit of adventure, which so strongly mark the present times, you are in fact opening new roads to enterprise, and affording new facilities to the interchange of the productions of the different regions of the earth:—that interchange, of which the advantages must be reciprocal, and of which the extension to new countries is, perhaps, the surest harbinger of their improvement and civilization. I cannot doubt, therefore, that the West Indies, in the course of no very great number of years will add a new proof to those which Ireland, and the United States have already afforded, which so many

1111
other parts of the world are now about to afford, of this great commercial and political truth,—that an open trade, especially to a rich and thriving country, is infinitely more valuable than any monopoly, however exclusive, which the public power of the state may be able, either to enforce against its own colonial dominions, or to establish in its intercourse with other parts of the world:—so true it is, that the wants of mankind, every where, increase with the means of indulging their desires, and that the increase of those means will be best found in that course, which by stimulating industry, creates exchangeable wealth.
If this principle be true in its application to the West Indies, mere plantations, sugar gardens, as it were, tilled by slaves, for the benefit of masters resident in Great Britain—in how much greater a degree must it be true in its application to our North American provinces, where a wider field is open, and a more natural and happier state of society prevails? There you have not a mere plantation, but an immense country. There you have a white population, all free, prosecuting their various pursuits and avocations of life, for their own benefit and happiness, many of them born in the country, and almost all looking to it as their home, and as the home of those by whom they are to be succeeded. That population, taking all the provinces, is not short, perhaps, at this moment, of one million of people, and their numbers increasing very rapidly. With the fertility of the soil in many of their districts, with their natural productions, their harbours, and extent of coast, both upon the ocean and their internal lakes, with their fisheries, and other advantages, I cannot doubt, that without any other encouragement than freedom of trade, and a lenient administration, these provinces will, henceforward, make the most rapid strides towards prosperity—that connecting their prosperity with the liberal treatment of the mother country, they will neither look with envy at the growth of other states on the same continent, nor wish for the dissolution of old and the formation of new political connexions. With a tariff of duties, accounted for to their own treasury, and moreover far lighter than those paid by their neighbours—with a trade as free—with their shipping in possession of greater privileges—themselves in the enjoyment of the same civil rights—they will not be
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easily moved to acts by which all these advantages may be placed in jeopardy or danger. Such a course is not in human nature. At any rate, let us, as the parent state, fulfil our duties with all proper kindness and liberality. This is true wisdom, affording us, on the one hand, the best chance of perpetuating a solid and useful connexion, and on the other, the best hope if (which God avert), in the progress of human events, that connexion is ever to be dissolved, that the separation may not be embittered by acrimony and bloodshed; and the certain consolation that, however brought about, it will not have been hastened or provoked by vexatious interference or oppressive pretensions on our part. In addition, therefore, to all the advantages which the prosperity of our North American colonies must reflect upon our own prosperity, I consider that, by extending to them this participation of the commercial facilities and privileges which we enjoy, we shall unite the mutual interests, and draw closer the bonds of harmony and good understanding, between us and these valuable dependencies. But viewed as a question of commerce merely, I have no difficulty in stating that, without these changes, they will not, I fear, be able to stand the competition of the United States. To those who have not paid particular attention to subjects of this nature, I shall perhaps best illustrate the disadvantage under which our colonies now labour in this competition, by stating one instance of it.
The fisheries employ a considerable part of the population of Nova Scotia, they also afford employment to the citizens of the neighbouring districts of the United States. In all that relates to the procuring the fish, and the preparing them for a foreign market, the two parties are perhaps upon an equality. But, now, let us follow them to that market, we will say, the Brazils, which is one of the best and most extensive. Each party, it is true, has there an equal facility for selling his cargo; but the cargo, once disposed of, the inequality commences. The citizen of the United States can take in return, any of the productions of the Brazils, and proceed with them, either to his own country or to any other part of the world; and, in the latter case, bartering them away again for the productions of some other country, finally return with another cargo to his own. Not so the Nova Scotian. Many of the staple productions of Brazil,

1113
(sugar for instance), are not admissible in the British provinces of North America. He may take these productions, it is true to the ports of foreign Europe, with as much facility as his neighbour; but then again, if he procure a loading in those ports, he cannot return home with his cargo, because it is not admissible in his own country, except directly from Great Britain. Now, it is this difference, in the mode of transacting the same business, which often makes the profit or loss of the adventure; and from which, among other disadvantages, it is my wish to relieve the king's subjects in North America.
Another essential relief applicable to our colonies and their trade, will, I trust, be found in the abolition of the large fees which are now levied in almost all our colonial ports. These fees, which frequently amount to more than the public duties, both on the ship and cargo, are levied for the benefit of certain public officers. There is, in many of the islands a fee for the governor, another for his secretary, a fee to the naval officer, to the officers of the revenue, and to several others. If a ship proceed from one port to another, as is frequently the case, owing to the state of the markets, these fees are levied at every port. They are not only a heavy burthen, but a great impediment to trade, and have more than once been complained of in this House, particularly by the member for Coventry (Mr. Ellice). Some of the officers to whom those fees are paid, (I mean particularly the naval officers), will, I conceive, be no longer necessary, especially when the commerce of the colonies will be so nearly assimilated to that of the mother country. The officers of the Customs will be quite sufficient to attend to the enforcement of the navigation laws. It is, therefore, intended to abolish the naval officers altogether, making compensation to those who hold their appointments for life, under patent, and allowing a superannuation, in the usual mode, to such as have been appointed only during pleasure. To all the officers in the Customs who are to be continued, it is proposed to give salaries, as in this country, to be paid out of the duties which they will have to collect: and upon the same fund, it will be just to assign the temporary compensations to the other officers, as the discontinuance of their fees will be a relief to the colony in which they were levied; the balance after defraying those charges,
1114
to be accounted for, as I have already explained, to the treasury of the colony. The details of this improvement, and the mode of carrying it into execution, appertain of course to the Treasury, and the Colonial Department; but it was right that I should advert to it on the present occasion, as a measure essentially connected with the new system of colonial commerce, which I have now submitted to the committee.
It only remains for me to state two further alterations, of a more local and specific nature. The one relates to the Mauritius, and the other to Canada. The duty on Mauritius sugar, on its importation into this country, is now ten shillings per cwt. more than the duty on British plantation sugar. Last session I proposed resolutions for equalizing those duties; but it was then objected, that the commerce of the Mauritius was not under the same restrictions as existed in the West Indies, and that the inhabitants of that colony preferred freedom of trade to equality of duty. Upon this objection the resolutions were abandoned; but now that trade will be equally free to all, there can be no valid reason (even if there existed any last year) why the Mauritius sugar should not be admitted at the same rate as that of the West Indies. This island is cultivated in the same manner as the West-India islands. I know of no advantage it has over them; whilst its greater distance, by increasing the expense of freight, and its frequent exposure to hurricanes, would seem to place it under some natural disadvantages. From this diminution of duty, which appears to me, in all fairness, due to the Mauritius, I do not apprehend that any serious prejudice can accrue to the West-India planter, as the quantity of sugar grown in that island is not considerable; and, of course, what is sent to Europe must equally influence the price of this article in the general market, whether it finds its way to this country or to the continent.
The measure which I have to propose in respect to Canada, appears to me to be no more than an act of common justice to that colony. It is simply this:—to admit at all times, the corn of that country into our consumption, upon the payment of a fixed and moderate duty. When it is considered that corn is the staple of that colony, I cannot conceive a greater act of injustice, than to have declared to a part of our own empire, as much entitled to

1115
protection as any other part of it, that against that staple the markets of this country were closed. How are the Canadians to pay for the supplies which they draw from this country?—Is it fitting, that, when they make their remittances in this staple, they should do so, without being able to know whether it can be received here?—Whether it is to remain in warehouse, unavailable and unproductive, and at a ruinous expense, for five or six years, depending for its admission into our market upon the fraction of a half-penny, according to the average price in our markets for a few preceding weeks —that average influenced by the conflicting tricks and artifices of the home grower and the home dealer; the result of which cannot be known in Canada for many months afterwards? When this subject is considered by the British agriculturist, it is impossible, that he can view the indulgence which I propose with jealousy or apprehension. That indulgence is, to allow the free import of Canadian wheat, at all times upon the payment of a duty of five shillings a quarter. In addition to the protection of this duty, the British grower will have that of the freight from Quebec to England, which is not less than from twelve to fifteen shillings more. The greatest quantity of wheat which Canada can now supply, may, I understand, be estimated at not more than 50,000 quarters, but even if the importation were double that quantity, and were it to increase more rapidly than I consider probable, such an addition is not likely to keep pace with the growing demand of our population; and whether so or not, I should still maintain, that the principle of the measure is one to which no fair or impartial man can possibly refuse his assent. It only remains for me, thanking the committee for their attention, to move the following resolutions:—

1st.—"That it is expedient to amend several acts of the 3rd and 4th years of his present majesty, for regulating the trade between his majesty's possessions in America, and other places in America and the West Indies; and between his majesty's possessions in America and the West Indies, and other parts of the world; and also an act of the 4th year of his present majesty, for regulating the warehousing of goods.'

2nd.—"That the duties imposed by two acts of the 3rd year of his present majesty, for regulating the trade between
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his majesty's possessions in America and other places in America and the West Indies; and between his majesty's possessions in America and the West Indies, and other parts of the world, or by an act of the 4th year of his present majesty to amend the last-mentioned act, shall cease and determine; and that the duties hereinafter mentioned shall be paid in lieu thereof."

Mr. Charles Ellissaid, that, in consequence of his connexion with those colonies to which the line of policy stated by his right hon. friend was intended to be adapted, he had listened to his address with no common degree of interest. With respect to the intended alteration in the duty on sugar imported from the Mauritius, he certainly had heard that intimation with some degree of surprise. Considering what had passed when that measure was brought before the House last year, and the manner in which it was abandoned, he certainty did not expect that it would have been introduced on this occasion; but, as many opportunities would occur for discussing those different measures, he would not trouble the committee with any further observations on this subject, except to request, that his right hon. friend would have the goodness, before he brought in his bill, to lay before the House the petition of the inhabitants of the Mauritius against placing them on the footing of a West-India colony. As to the general plan of his right hon. friend, he must say, that the restrictions which he sought to put down, had long pressed on the interests of the West-India colonies, perhaps more than that of any other of the colonies of great Britain. When those restrictions were first proposed, the effect of them was very different. At that time they did not press very hard on the colonies; who were then in full possession of the home market. Many alterations had, however, been since made; and as our colonial possessions had been much extended, it was impossible to continue the system of keeping the trade of those colonies entirely to ourselves. It, therefore, became necessary to alter the colonial code. Those bills to which his right hon. friend had alluded, and on which he meant to legislate, were in consequence introduced; the one allowing a direct trade in British ships from the colonies to Europe, and the other for facilitating the intercourse between the colonies and America. He had expected-

1117
much benefit from those measures, but in that he had been disappointed. British merchants did not avail themselves of the permission to trade direct between the colonies and Europe; and the West-India planters found it impossible to overcome the difficulties of their situation, and to divert an old established system of commerce into new channels. He believed that not a single ship load of colonial produce was sent to continental Europe. The reciprocity measure, with respect to America, was also inoperative. He hoped, however, in consequence of the opening of the trade now projected, that foreign powers would take their commodities to the West-Indies, and exchange them there for the produce of the colonies. If this were once the case, he was sure it would rouse the energy of British merchants, who would not allow foreign merchants to keep the whole of the colonial trade with Europe to themselves. Neither did he think that the merchants of the United States would exclude themselves from those ports, when they saw foreigners carrying on a beneficial trade. When the colonies were freed from those heavy charges to which his right hon. friend had alluded, they would, he conceived, find a vent for that surplus produce, the accumulation of which had overwhelmed them. The plan, however, though good in principle, was limited. It was of necessity bounded by the principle of reciprocity. That principle, of course, confined it to those countries that would be disposed to adopt an equally liberal policy. Some of the states of Europe might, therefore, be excluded. They might be unwilling to alter their present colonial system. A very good commercial treaty had been negociated, for instance, with Denmark: but, at the foot of it was placed an intimation, that it did not extend to the colonial trade of that country. His right hon. friend's scheme was also connected with certain protecting duties. What the effect of them would be he could not say; but that must depend on their correct application to particular articles. After the experience this country had had of the effect produced by protecting duties, with reference to the produce of Canada, and in checking the intercourse with the United States of America, he trusted his right hon. friend would not be over sanguine in the success of the present measure. He should be sorry to say any thing un-
1118
gracious on this occasion; he would not make any objections to the alteration proposed by his right hon. friend, which was unobjectionable in principle, and which, he was sure, was intended to do good. He would much rather look at the other side of the picture. With respect to the West-India islands, their geographical situation adapted them peculiarly for a convenient entrepôt for all our manufactures. Vessels often proceeded to those islands from England almost in ballast; which, under the new system, needed no longer to be the case. Commerce, it was well known, would attract around it every species of industry; and this beneficial alteration in the colonial code might be the means of creating a white population, and of extending cultivation to many other articles besides those now produced in the West-Indies. The tranquillity and prosperity of the colonies would thus be secured; and he certainly felt, that in no other way could they so successfully accelerate the change in the slave population which that House had delegated to the government the task of carrying into effect, as by giving a fresh impulse and energy to commerce and cultivation in the colonies. His right hon. friend's paternal affection for this measure could not inspire him with greater anxiety for its success, than was felt by him (Mr. Ellis); and he hoped the name of his right hon. friend would hereafter be connected with a new and favourable era in the history of those colonies.
Mr. Baringsaid, he could not suffer so important a subject to pass, without expressing his gratification at almost every thing that had been stated by the right hon. gentleman. He thought the measure proposed would be productive of great good, as well to the colonies as to the mother country. There was always this advantage in broad and liberal views of commerce—that they intended to serve all the parties concerned. There were portions of the statement of the right hon. gentleman which could not be exactly understood, until gentlemen saw the resolutions, and the bills that would be founded on them. What he did see, and what he highly approved of was, the general spirit of liberality that pervaded the whole system. He conceived that, from its adoption, the colonies would derive great benefit. It was at length found, that no nation could gain by keeping down and impoverishing her colonies. It was by making them

1119
prosperous and wealthy, that the interest of the parent state was sure to be supported. With respect to the North American colonies, this measure might be called an act of emancipation; for it did emancipate them, for every good and beneficial purpose. Whatever remained peculiar in their situation, would be privileges, and not restrictions. It was impossible that colonies, which were growing more important every day, could exist under the present system of things. If there were no other inducement, the principle of self-preservation called on them to extend the very limited system which now prevailed; and he thought that nothing could effect this desirable object more completely, than the measures of the right hon. gentleman. It was doing an act of justice, of sound policy, and, he would add, an act strictly conformable with the commercial interests of the country. Some of these measures might perhaps find opponents. The question of corn would excite the country gentlemen; any privilege extended to colonial shipping would alarm the shipowners here; and the same thing might be said of the manufacturing and other interests. But, looking at the proposition as a whole, viewing it with that liberal feeling which it deserved, he was quite sure, that the more it was considered, the more satisfaction it would give. He was one of those who would not willingly injure the West-India interest; but he thought that, when the hon. gentleman who spoke last expressed a belief, that the introduction of sugar from the Mauritius would do mischief to the West-India planters, he was in error. He saw no reason for excluding the Mauritius from the operation of the right hon. gentleman's system. It was a colony belonging to this country; the cultivation of sugar was carried on as it was in the West-Indies; and the cultivators at the Mauritius had a right to claim the boon, on the same grounds that it was extended to other colonies. Besides, the sugar raised there was inconsiderable in point of quantity. He was extremely anxious to see the further development of the right hon. gentleman's plan, with respect to the proposed alterations as to the European part of the system; and particularly that which related to the importation of corn. He did not wish to see the protection which it had been found necessary to afford to the agricultural interest, reduced below that which they had enjoyed before the pre-
1120
sent restrictive measures were adopted; although it must ever be a matter of regret to all persons who were well acquainted with the subject, that any such protection had been granted. Still, he should be sorry to take away, on any principles of political economy, however he might be convinced of their soundness, that protection which had now been so long enjoyed, and had grown to be so much a part of the system, that the persons interested in it would have a fair right to claim its continuance. In the alteration which had been announced by the right hon. gentleman, it was not, he apprehended, at all probable, that any large quantity of corn would be imported into this country from Canada. The great distance which intervened, the charges of freight, and other losses which must necessarily attach to that importation, would, together with the duty of five shillings, which it was proposed to continue, be sufficient to prevent the influx of Canadian corn, to any extent that could injure the English agriculturist. But it would be necessary—and he threw out this suggestion for the consideration of the right hon. gentleman—to provide against the possibility of any larger masses of corn coming from other parts of the American continent, through Canada. The river St. Lawrence, which comprehended the greatest extent of inland navigation, perhaps, in the whole world, extended to New York on one side, and, by means of the communication which was now about making, to the Mississippi on the other. Facilities would thus be afforded for evading the spirit of the right hon. gentleman's proposed regulation, while its letter would be complied with.—There was another point connected with this part of the subject, on which he wished for some information. He was desirous of knowing whether it was intended to propose any regulation respecting a union between upper and lower Canada, or otherwise to equalize the duties of those two provinces. From their natural situation, all the import and export trade must be carried on through lower Canada: the people of upper Canada were therefore at their mercy, and must pay any duty which they chose to put upon the importation of goods. A measure had been proposed last year; but it was afterwards given up. He agreed with the reasons for which that proceeding had been adopted, because he thought it would at least be highly indis-

1121
creet to take so important a measure without a communication with the districts for which it was to legislate. It was, however, desirable, and in consequence of the proposed arrangement, it became more so than ever, that some regulations should be made, as to the share of revenue which was to be received by each of those districts; or they should be united. He was sure this would not escape the attention of the right hon. gentleman. He rejoiced in the opportunity he had of expressing the satisfaction he experienced from the detail of the right hon. gentleman's plans; which he had no doubt would be as beneficial to the country, as they were in themselves enlightened and liberal.
Sir F. Burdettrose, for the purpose of expressing the gratification he felt at the new and liberal view which was taken by his majesty's ministers upon subjects which involved the most important interests of the country. He hoped that they would not suffer any timidity to deter them from carrying the principles which they had avowed into full execution. He was satisfied there was no reason for any such apprehension; and he did not doubt that the government would find that, upon this subject, the general opinion of the country was with them. He did not clearly comprehend all the details of the right hon. gentleman's alterations; but, as far as he did do so, he fully concurred with them; and it was matter of great gratification to him, to find that they were conceived in a spirit of pure and enlightened policy. He trusted, that the principles would be acted upon to the greatest practicable extent in the colonies, and that they would be allowed the full enjoyment of all the advantages which could be derived from their own labour, and ingenuity, and enterprise; not fettered by restrictions which curtailed those advantages, but left at full liberty to pursue their own works in their own colonies, and to send their produce to this country as they might think fit. Every body knew the disadvantages which the West-India proprietors laboured under, in being compelled to send their sugars to the British market in a raw state. Upon no sound principle of commercial policy could such restrictions be maintained; and he hoped that in future all the benefits to which they were fairly entitled would be ensured to the colonists. With respect to the importation of corn from Lower Canada, that mea-
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sure, he believed, would be almost universally approved of. The real principles of national policy were better understood than they had been at former periods; and those persons who were most interested in this subject had now found that their interest required no monopoly, nor any other advantages, excepting such as they would of necessity enjoy from the command of the home market, and their not being subject to the expense of freight and other charges, to which foreign corn was inevitably liable. He hoped that the same principle would be applied, not only to the corn of Canada, but of every other country, and that a free trade in corn would be established with all Europe. Unless this were done, he was convinced it was impossible that the trade of the country would be extended in the manner it ought to be. No country would trade with us in perfect freedom, unless we were ready to take from it, in return for what we had to give, that which it was able to offer us. It could be in no way advantageous to the country, or to any class of men in it, that their interests should be bolstered up by exclusive privileges. He hoped to see, at no distant period, the extinction of all taxes which were levied upon trade, except such as fairly formed the source of the revenue—that there would be no prohibition against goods imported from abroad, and no restriction upon the exportation of every description of manufacture produced at home. This once accomplished, he had no doubt that the country would advance in prosperity, far beyond any point that it had hitherto attained, and beyond all that the most sanguine mind had yet conceived. The other points of the right hon. gentleman's plan he should not at present further remark upon; but he warmly congratulated him upon the satisfactory nature of the alterations he had proposed; and he conjured him not to let any fears deter him from proceeding in the course he had begun. The public mind was now too much enlightened, and saw too clearly the general interests of the country, to permit any of those obstacles which prejudice or misapprehension might, in other times, have given rise to, to impede the completion of the right hon. gentleman's object.
Mr. Brightexpressed himself friendly to the principles of free trade, but wished that their application should be made as general as might be practicable. The measures proposed to be adopted, with

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regard to the West Indies, were such as were equally demanded by the interest of this country and by justice to the colony. If they had been earlier adopted, the consequences would have been, to prevent many of the evils which had long existed; and he had no hesitation in saying, that if the West-India colonies had been freed from the restrictions they had so long endured, the population would have been infinitely better off in every respect. The case of the Mauritius, to which be should not now allude, was one which stood upon its own merits. He did not quite understand what the right hon. gentleman meant to do, with respect to rum and sugar, and be should be glad, at some other opportunity, to have this explained.
Mr. Huskissonsaid, that it was his intention to include in the list of articles on Which prohibitory duties were still to be kept up, sugar, rum, molasses, cocoa, and coffee, the production of any foreign country which might be carried into our colonies, and thence exported here. This measure was obviously necessary to prevent, for example, sugar produced from Havannah, enjoying the same advantages as those enjoyed by our colonies, while the foreign growers refused to grant us any reciprocal benefits. He did not apprehend that much corn would be imported from Canada; and there was still less fear, that any would be brought from the United States; because the latter were not in the habit of exporting their corn, but in the shape of flour. He had no doubt that the result of this measure would be such as the most jealous agriculturist need not fear.
Mr. Humerose, for the purpose of asking whether, during the changes which the right hon. gentleman proposed, it was his intention to take some steps with respect to St. Domingo, so as to put our intercourse with that place on a different footing. We had at present no person there to take care of our commercial interests. He submitted, that, as the time had now come when that country had firmly established itself, and the most entire peace and tranquillity prevailed in it, we ought not to reject the overtures which had been made to us to trade with them. He hoped that the right hon. gentleman's attention would also be drawn to the heavy tax on timber from Canada, and that the timber trade would be relieved from a burthen which pressed so heavily upon it.
Sir Robert Farquharobserved, that he perfectly agreed with the hon. member for Bristol in thinking, that the Mauritius was a case that stood upon its own merits; and he felt convinced, from his experience and local knowledge, acquired during the many years he had administered that colony, that whenever that case should be brought forward, and discussed, it would be found to be the hardest and most cruel, that had ever been submitted to the House of Commons, and one that called for immediate relief. The measures proposed had been long due, as the only means of rescuing from utter ruin, a people who were equally exemplary under all their privations, restrictions, and disabilities, for their patience, their intelligence, and their obedience to the laws. In a political point of view, the importance of governing them with justice, kindness, and liberality, must be obvious to every person who regarded the position of the colony, and the population of which it was composed; and in a financial view, the colony, by being relieved from the present excessive duty on the importation into this country of their produce, would be enabled, not only to pay the expense of the civil government and establishments, but the military charge for its defence, and thus relieve this country from a burthen of at least 100,000 l. a-year—levied, not for the benefit of the country, but for the exclusive protection of that very class to which they, from the exact similarity of circumstances of colonization, naturally and properly belonged, and ought to enjoy equal advantages with; that therefore he had full confidence in the wisdom of his majesty's government for immediately carrying into execution the measure proposed, being one equally founded on the principles of policy, expediency, justice, and good faith; and that the Mauritius would no longer be a solitary example of a British sugar colony, excluded, by enormous and almost prohibitory duties, from the importation of their sugar for home consumption.
Dr. Lushingtonsaid, he was perfectly ready to agree, that very great advantages were likely to result from the measures which had been proposed to the House, as well to the colonies as to the mother country. Now, however, that the restrictions which had been found to be injurious and unjust were to be taken off, and the Mauritius was to be placed on a footing with the West-India islands, he

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would ask, upon what principle it was contended, that the same advantages should not also be enjoyed by the East Indies? There could be no reason why those territories should not enjoy, in their fullest extent, all the benefits to be derived from the liberal system which the government had now resolved to adopt. He said this, not, as it might be pretended, from a wish to reduce the West Indies, but upon the obvious principles of political economy. What, he asked, could be more just, than that the population of the East Indies should be put into possession of the same liberty as was enjoyed by all the other colonies of Great Britain? When he, and those who thought with him on this subject, expressed their desire to alleviate the wretched condition of the slaves in the West Indies, it was said, that the measures which they proposed would have the effect of increasing the distress, which was already too burthen-some upon the proprietors in this country. He was, however, inclined to believe; that the distress of those proprietors was chiefly to be attributed to their residence in this country; and that the misery of their slaves was another consequence of the same cause. These absentees cultivated their West-Indian estates by means of agents, whom they bribed with large salaries to manage their property. The agents were actuated solely by the desire to procure large crops, for the immediate benefit of the proprietor, without any regard to the ultimate condition of the estate. The difference between the condition of the slaves on the estates of resident proprietors, and those who were under the control of their agents, was a proof of the truth of this statement.— There was one point of view in which the consequence of the proposed measure had not, perhaps, been sufficiently considered. In the event of a war at any future time, the vessels of neutrals would be allowed to carry freights between the colonies and the mother country. This appeared to him to be a great blessing. In the first place, it would alleviate the miseries of war; and, in the next, it would remove the imputation so commonly cast upon England by America and other nations, of. being actuated by a desire to keep to herself the exclusive benefit of conveying merchandize. The main intention of the measure, however, if he comprehended it rightly, was, to ensure avaluable monopoly to the West Indies, and to admit all sugars
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upon paying a duty of 27 s. per cwt. from all colonies having a slave population. The Mauritius, the only colony in which the detestable traffic in slaves had been continued-—he said this to the credit of the West-India islands—was to be included. Now, that there should be any distinction made between these colonies and the East Indies he held to be rank injustice. Whenever any attempt was made to improve the condition of the unfortunate beings who formed the population of the former colonies, it was invariably opposed by those gentlemen in the Mouse, who were connected with the West Indies, and who did not scruple to assign motives to those by whom such attempts were made, which, to say the least of them, were wholly unfounded ["hear, hear," from Mr. Gordon]. His hon. friend, who now so loudly cried "hear," had, on a former occasion, when this subject had been brought before the House, got up with so much vehemence, that he seemed ready to devour all who were near him. He did this, because, being himself a large West-India proprietor, he could not endure to hear any thing which even seemed to interfere with the state of things in the colonies, and to alleviate the sufferings of the slave population. He could not help doubting the judgment, although he could not suspect the heart, of his hon. friend, nor that of any other hon. gentleman, when he found him opposing a measure which was calculated to do away with an immense mass of evil which disgraced our West-India colonies. For his own part, and for those who thought with him on this subject, he repudiated with disgust and indignation the imputation, that they were actuated by any feeling of hostility towards the West-India proprietors. On the contrary, he thought those proprietors were entitled to the benefit which was about to be conferred upon them, and he hoped it would be as useful and as advantageous to them, as it was expected to be. Notwithstanding the contumely with which they had treated the British parliament, he hoped that the spirit of animosity by which they seemed to be influenced would subside; and that they would listen with a patient ear to the admonitions of the legislature.
Mr. R. Gordonrose for the purpose of replying to the observations of the learned gentleman—observations, which the usage of parliament thardly justified him in making. He did not know to what particular occa-

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sion the learned gentleman alluded; but, in his own name and in that of all the other West-India proprietors in that House, he threw back the assertion, that they had endeavoured, by their influence in parliament, or elsewhere, to interpose any obstacle to the amelioration of the condition of the slave population of the colonies. It was very easy for a person like the learned gentleman, who was in the habit of addressing public assemblies, to throw out insinuations against honourable gentlemen, who might find it difficult to reply, with equal fluency, to a charge so unjustly made. He had, however, felt it due to himself to seize the first opportunity of denying altogether the truth of that charge, and of vindicating himself from the imputation which had been cast upon him. The hon. member went on to say, that he approved of the proposition of the right hon. gentleman, and particularly of his intention to introduce the warehousing system into the colonies.
Mr. A. C. Grantdefended the conduct of the West-India proprietors, and denied that it was their object to make the greatest quantity of profit from their estates. All that they looked to was, to obtain a fair return; and with that object they combined a proper attention to the condition of the slaves. The learned gentleman had accused them most unfairly, in that and in other respects. Nothing could be more unfounded than the assertion that the West-India proprietors never would be satisfied, whatever parliament might do for them. On the contrary, they came to parliament, under the most difficult and embarrassing circumstances, humbly asking for relief. All they required was, the protection to which they were justly entitled. After all that had been said in favour of East-India produce, as the result of free labour, the committee must be aware, that it was no such thing. And he would put it to them besides, whether they felt that the tenure by which they held the East Indies, was so perfectly secure as to induce them to legislate in its favour to the disadvantage of the West-India colonies.
Sir R. Farquharbegged to state, in answer to what had fallen from the hon. and learned member (Dr. Lushington), that, formany years past, there had been no instance of importation of slaves into the Mauritius; and that there were documents now in England, from the present go-
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vernor, sir Lowrie Cole, which distinctly declared that there had been no instance of such illicit proceedings, and that the inhabitants held that infamous trade in the utmost detestation.
Mr. Evansprotested against the principle of giving a preference to the labour of slaves, over that of freemen.
The resolution was agreed to.

POLICE MAGISTRATES BILL.
The House having resolved itself into a committee of the whole Mouse, to take into consideration the subject of the Salaries of the Police Magistrates of the Metropolis,
Mr. Secretary Peelrequested the attention of the committee to the subject upon which he proposed to address them; namely, the pecuniary allowance which the police magistrates of the metropolis received for their services. It was his intention to propose, that those individuals should receive an addition to the salary they at present received; a proposition which, he trusted, would not be considered at all unreasonable. He held in his hand papers, from which, if he chose to enter into any detail, he could prove, to the satisfaction of the committee, that since the institution of police magistrates, the business which devolved upon those individuals had, owing to various acts of parliament, independently of the increase of population, greatly augmented. Although that circumstance would, of itself, be a sufficient reason for increasing the salary of the magistrates, he rested his proposition upon grounds which he hoped the committee would consider even more satisfactory. When the police magistrates were first appointed, it was the practice to select individuals to fill the office, who, he must say, were utterly incompetent to discharge the duties which devolved upon them. He found, from the papers which had been laid on the table, that out of twelve police magistrates appointed at a former period, there were only three barristers; the rest were composed of a major in the army, a starch-maker, three clergymen, a Glasgow-trader, and other persons who, from their previous occupations, could not but be utterly unqualified to perform the duties of magistrates. The law had fixed no limitation with respect to the previous education of persons appointed to the office of magistrate; but he thought the committee would be pleased to hear, that a limitation on that point had been prescribed by the Secre-

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tary of State. Neither his noble predecessor in office (lord Sidmouth), nor himself, had ever appointed a person to fill the office of magistrate, who had not been a barrister of three years' standing. That was a rule to which, in his opinion, it was most desirable to adhere. But, in order to enable the Secretary of State to abide by that rule, and carry it into practice, it was necessary to augment the present salary of the police-magistrates. He implored the House to consider whether 600 l. a year, the present salary, was sufficient to induce a barrister to give up the emoluments of private practice and the hope of preferment in his profession, to undertake the duties of a magistrate, which required their almost constant attendance. It could not, he thought, be considered an unreasonable proposition, that, in future, the Secretary of State should be empowered to give to each police magistrate the sum of 800 l. per annum. He hoped he should not be told, that individuals might be found, who would be willing to undertake the magisterial duties for a less sum. It was very true, that such was the case. He was constantly receiving applications from persons who were anxious to be appointed police magistrates. Those applications proceeded principally from country magistrates, who had discharged the duties of their offices ably and satisfactorily; but whom, nevertheless, he did not think it right to appoint to be police magistrates in the metropolis. He held the unpaid magistracy in as high respect as any man; but he could easily conceive, that a gentleman might, in consequence, of the influence which he derived from local circumstance—the relations of landlord and tenant, for instance—be able to discharge the duties of a country magistrate in a satisfactory manner, who would be incompetent to undertake the very important ones of a police-magistrate. "Police-magistrates' was the name generally given to the magistrates to whom he alluded, but those persons were mistaken who supposed that the duties which they had to perform were merely executive. They were called upon to administer the law in a great number of complicated cases which were submitted to them. Out of some recent acts of parliament many very important questions arose, which the police-magistrates were called upon to decide. Several nice cases had occurred under the building acts. He knew one case of that
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description, which had occupied the attention of the magistrates for a couple of days; during which surveyors were examined on both sides. He thought that a salary of 800 l. a year was not more than a fair remuneration for the practice which a barrister must abandon, when he undertook the duties of a magistrate. It appeared to him, that the individuals appointed to administer justice in this country were more parsimoniously dealt with than in any other country in the world. He thought it was poor economy, to give an inadequate remuneration to individuals selected to administer justice, whether in the high office of judge, or in the less, but still very important, office of police-magistrate. He might, he did not doubt, get persons—those who could not succeed in their profession—the refuse of the bar —to fill the office of police-magistrate, at a lower salary than he proposed to give; he might save 100 l. or 200 l. a year by such a proceeding, but the public would have cause to lament it. The present police-magistrates were of the highest personal respectability, and performed their duties to the great satisfaction of the country. There were thirty in number; only four of whom were not barristers. The right hon. gentleman concluded with moving, "That it is the opinion of the committee, that each of the Justices appointed, or to be appointed, under an act for the more effectual administration of the office of a Justice of the Peace in and near the Metropolis, shall be allowed such yearly salaries not exceeding 800 l. as shall be directed by one of His Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State."
Sir J. Sebrightapproved of the proposed addition to the salaries of magistrates, which he thought would have the effect of rendering the body more respectable; and stated, that he was old enough to remember the trading justices, than whom there were not a more contemptible set of persons.
Mr. Hobhousesaid, he did not rise to, oppose the plan, but to guard himself against sanctioning any proposition, the tendency of which might be, to increase the influence of the Crown. He understood that there were at present 820 barristers, and no fewer than 400 places to which barristers were eligible. What he wanted to know was, whether the salaries were to be all raised immediately by this measure; or whether it was to be at

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the option of the Secretary of State to raise some, and to leave others without any advance, as he might think proper. If the Secretary of State was to exercise any such discretion, he should say "no" to the proposition. He did not wish to allude to circumstances now gone by, and he hoped never to be repeated, when an individual (sir R. Baker) was removed from the magistracy, not by the right hon. gentleman opposite, but by another secretary, contrary to the feelings and wishes of the whole body of the people. The mere question of money did not weigh with him. It was only the principle that he was anxious to guard.
Mr. Peelsaid, that if the committee should agree to the resolution which he had proposed, the increase would be extended to every police magistrate. As a proof that there was no wish on the part of government to favour particular magistrates, he might mention, that though the last resolution for regulating the amount of their salaries was passed ten or twelve years ago in precisely the same terms, he believed, as that which he had now proposed, there was no distinction at the present moment in regard to the salaries of magistrates. They all receive 600 l. a year. With respect to what the hon. member had said respecting the patronage of the Crown—ift hat were any object, it could be much better attained by giving the appointments to gentlemen from the country, rather than from the bar.
Mr. Humedid not think that 800 l. per annum was too much for a magistrate to receive; but he was of opinion that the present number of magistrates might be reduced. In what way were the thirty magistrates to be disposed of in the metropolis? Could not the right hon. Secretary have effected his object, by raising the salaries and reducing the number? If the salary was raised, would not three be amply sufficient, where four were in an office? He wished to know what were the number of offices, and what the hours of attendance?
Mr. Peelsaid, that the question of the propriety of reducing the number of magistrates had been considered in a committee, which was appointed at his suggestion two sessions since, to inquire into the state of the police of the metropolis. In 1792, London was divided into nine districts, to each of which three magistrates were appointed. Notwithstanding the great increase of population, and the
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consequent augmentation of business, no addition had been made to that number, except by the appointment of magistrates to the Thames-police—a most useful institution. A great part of the business transacted in the police offices was done in the presence of two magistrates. He considered that a good arrangement; as one magistrate acted as a check on the other. This being the case, it was necessary to have a third magistrate attached to each office, to provide some little relaxation for the other two. He could assure the House that the periods of relaxation were very short. The office was open from ten in the morning, till eight in the evening; and during that time, the magistrates were compelled to be in constant attendance. The jurisdiction of the magistrates of Union-hall extended over a district containing not less than 243,000 inhabitants. In one month, July 1823, not less than 176 cases of assault came before the magistrates of that office; and in July 1824, the number of assault cases was 150. This was independent of all other cases. It was evident, under these circumstances, that the number of magistrates could not be reduced, without great inconvenience to the public, and prejudice to the administration of justice. That, at least, was the opinion which the committee to which he had alluded had come to on the subject.
The resolution was agreed to