Commons Sitting of 21 April 1823

WAREHOUSING BILL.
Mr. Wallacehaving moved the third reading of this bill,
Mr. Brightsaid, he must call the attention of the House to the state of this bill, which ought to be made more perfect before it was suffered to pass into a law. The powers left in the hands of the lords of the Treasury and the commissioners of Excise were truly frightful, and put the interests of trade in the most perilous situation. For instance, the forfeiture of a ship was to be enacted by the bill, for the bare attempt to unload any part of a cargo once loaded, and the mitigation of this punishment was left with the lords of the Treasury.
Mr. Wallacesaid, he had a few amendments to propose, which he trusted would not meet the objections of the hon. gentleman. The first respected the bond required from the captains of ships. As that was found to work great inconvenience to trade, he proposed to abandon this provision, and substitute the bond of the owners. Another alteration related to goods removed from one port to another. At present, the bond of the first owner of the goods hung over him until they were delivered and regularly sold. He proposed to cancel the bond of the first owner in such cases, and take that of the purchaser instead of it. Another alteration regarded goods, which being imported for exportation might find a better price by being put into the home market. He would provide for that upon paying the difference. Another alteration would enable ship-owners to transfer stores which had not been consumed in a voyage, to another Ship going on another destination. The next alteration went to apply the regulations on shipping coffee, which now applied only to plantation coffee, to all
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other kinds of coffee. He had extended the same regulations to rum, at the suggestion of the hon. member for Bristol Another regulation affected the warehousing of East India goods, which took place at present under the 43rd Geo. 3rd. That act was to be repealed by the present bill; and it was necessary to make some provision for it. The last applied to the Irish linen trade, in which it had been intended to make some relaxation of the existing laws. The intention, however, had been mistaken; and the state of Ireland made it desirable that no irritation, however erroneous the grounds of it might be, should be added to the causes of the present disturbances. It was desirable, therefore, to replace that trade upon the same footing of exemptions as before. He concluded by submitting a series of verbal alterations pursuant to the objects which he had enumerated.
The amendments were agreed to, and the bill was passed.

IRISH TITHES COMPOSITION BILL.
On the motion of Mr. Goulburn, for going into a committee on this bill,
Mr. Spring Ricesaid, he gave every degree of credit to the government for their efforts to remove the ill feeling which at present existed between the clergy and the population of Ireland, and he would afford them every assistance in his power to render the measure before the House efficient. He thought, however, that against the bill as at present formed, certain objections might be advanced, which, if they were not removed, would disappoint the hopes of those for whose benefit it was intended. When this subject was formerly discussed, it was said, that individuals could not see their way through a proposition for the commutation of tithes; and they were told, that to speak of apportioning a fair and just income to the clergy of Ireland, was a vain waste of words. If, however, when his hon. friend (Mr. Hume) made a proposition on that point, due attention had been paid to it, they would not have been called upon, as was now the case, to legislate under such discouraging increased difficulties. With respect to commutation and composition, two circumstances were to be considered—whether the matter was left open for arrangement to both parties, or whether it was confined only to one of them? Last year they had been told, that a compulsory adjustment would

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not be listened to for a moment; but, in a bill now in progress through parliament (the Commutation bill), he was glad to find that principle was recognized. Not that he believed it would be found necessary to recur frequently to the compulsory clause; because he thought both parties would discover it to be their interest to come to an agreement as speedily as possible. With respect to the bill now before the House, he must say, that if the secretary for Ireland supposed that he could, under the existing state of affairs, call on parishes and their incumbents, to meet together amicably, he supposed that which was not likely to be realized; because it was asking them to come to an understanding at a moment when they were under the influence of passion and irritation. The true principle on which a measure for the commutation of tithes should proceed was, to look to that which the clergy actually received, to that which was tangible, and could be dealt with; whereas, the proposed measure went to give them indemnity for that which they might claim, but which, in fact, they never received. If they took the receipts of the clergy as the measure of commutation, they would lay hold of that which could be distinctly estimated; but, if they went by what the clergy claimed, they would be bound by no line, and it would be impossible to say what equivalent it would be proper to grant. He would put it to the gentlemen of Connaught, where tithe of potatoe was not paid, but where it might be claimed, whether they would grant to the clergy a commutation for that tithe which they did not receive? Anxiously a wishing to make this bill as efficient as possible, he would throw out a few words, as to the course of proceeding which he thought ought to be pursued. He feared that in a bill of this description, which was altogether a bill of detail, it was next to impossible to reduce it to such a shape as would make it work well in its ordinary passage through the House. He, therefore, wished that it should be investigated in a committee above stairs, and be there viewed in all its provisions by men of all sides and parties. By this means it might be made agreeable to the government of Ireland, and moulded into a peace-offering to that distracted country.
Mr. Goulburnwas of opinion that a bill involving such important interests could be more efficiently discussed in a com-
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mittee of the whole House thank in a committee above stairs, as the discussion would be conducted in a more regular and orderly manner; while all who were interested, and no others, were likely to attend. He would prefer it also to a select committee, as a limited number might not contain all those who were competent to assist and elucidate the question.
Mr. V. Fitzgerald and col. Barryargued in favour of referring the consideration of the measure to a committee above stairs; while sir J. Newport, Mr. Peel, sir H. Parnell, and col. Trench were of opinion that it could be more effectually discussed in a committee of the whole House.
Mr. Humesaid, that if his motion of last year had been adopted, the committee would now have nearly gone through their labours, and probably established, instead of the present system, a general fund for the payment, not only of the Protestant but of the Catholic clergy of Ireland. The time was not far distant when they must resort to such a plan. The present system was full of hardship and injustice, and led to many scenes of outrage. As the bill was before them, he thought it might be more advantageously discussed in a committee of the whole House than above stairs.
Mr. W. Smithcoincided with what had fallen from his hon. friend, and contended for that full inquiry into the system of tithes in Ireland; for the purpose of ascertaining some of the sources of those dreadful evils which afflicted that unhappy country.
The bill was ordered to be committed on Friday.

IRISH CHURCH RATES BILL.
On the order of the day for the second reading of this bill,
Sir J. Newportsaid, he must object to any measure that vent to give to the ecclesiastical courts such extended powers as this bill went to bestow on them. As an instance of the power already possessed by that court, he would mention the case of a poor man who, for a non-payment of certain sums, was cited to appear at a place 65 miles from his home. The man appeared, but the person who cited him was not present; the poor man had to return home again, and for his travelling expenses he was allowed by the court the sum of 12 s. 6d. The poor man was subsequently cited three or four times, and as often obliged to repair to different

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places, without being confronted with the party who appealed against him. There was also another clause in this bill, which he must oppose. He meant that which, in the case of there being no parish church, or in the event of the parish church being a ruin, enabled the archbishop or bishop to direct the parishioners to attend service in the next parish; by which means such parishioners would become (whether they so attended or not) liable to an equal proportion of the sess and charge of the parish to which they were recommended. Now, he would put a case not at all uncommon in Ireland. He would take a parish where there was no church, or where the church was a ruin, but the whole of the inhabitants of which were Catholics. Why should the recommendation of the bishop to attend service in the next parish, subject the inhabitants of that parish to a payment of a portion of the rates of a neighbouring parish, the great proportion of whose inhabitants were Protestants.
Mr. Goulburnassured the House, that the powers of the ecclesiastical courts would remain precisely the same, whether this bill were passed or not.
Mr. Humecontended, that the principles on which ecclesiastical courts proceeded were totally inconsistent with justice. These excessive rates were an enormous evil; and he was sure that the Irish people, upon whom they were so peculiarly oppressive, would not pay them much longer; but would effect the cure themselves by resisting the payment. Not more than one-fifth of the population of Ireland were Protestants; and it was not unlikely that that proportion would be soon reduced to a one hundred and fifth part. Was it, then, right to expect that such a population should be obliged to pay for the maintenance of a religious establishment to which they did not belong? He hoped they would discontinue to support such a system, and, if not relieved, that they would use physical force in order to avoid it [Hear, hear!]. Hon. members seemed alarmed at the expression; but it was his firm conviction, that if these acts of injustice were persisted in, matters must come to that extremity at last.
Mr. V. Fitzgeraldprotested against the use of such language. This doctrine was as calculated to inflame the minds of the Irish, as it was unbecoming any member of parliament to use in that House.
Mr. Humesaid, that what he had
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uttered was his conscientious opinion respecting Ireland; and feeling it to be so, he did not conceive that any harm could arise there or elsewhere from speaking the truth. Having stated what he believed would be the event, he hoped government would endeavour to avert the calamity.
The bill was read a second time.

ADDITIONAL PAPERS CONCERNING THE NEGOTIATIONS RELATIVE TO SPAIN.
The following Papers were presented to both Houses, by his majesty's command:
ADDITIONAL PAPERS.—SPAIN— FRANCE—PORTUGAL.

  SPAIN.
  No. 1.—Confidential Minute of Viscount Castlereagh on the Affairs of Spain. Communicated to the Courts of Austria, France, Prussia, and Russia in May, 1820.
  (Extract.) The events which have occurred in Spain have, as might be expected, excited, in proportion as they have developed themselves, the utmost anxiety throughout Europe.
  The British cabinet upon this as upon all other occasions, is ever ready to deliberate with those of the allies, and will unreservedly explain itself upon this great question of common interest; but as to the form in which it may be prudent to conduct these deliberations, they conceive, they cannot too early recommend that course of deliberation which will excite the least attention or alarm, or which can least provoke jealousy in the minds of the Spanish nation or government. In this view, it appears to them advisable, studiously to avoid any re-union of the sovereigns—to abstain, at least in the present stage of the question, from charging any ostensible conference with commission to deliberate on the affairs of Spain. They conceive it preferable that their intercourse should be limited to those confidential communications between the cabinets which are, in themselves, best adapted to approximate ideas, and to lead, as far as may be, to the adoption of common principles, rather than to hazard a discussion in a ministerial conference, which, from the necessarily limited powers of the individuals composing it, must ever be better fitted to execute a purpose already decided upon, than to frame a course of policy under delicate and difficult circumstances.
  There seems the less motive for precipitating any step of this nature in the case immediately under consideration, as, from all the information which reaches us, there exists in Spain no order of things upon which to deliberate; nor

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  as yet any governing authority with which foreign powers can communicate.
  the king's authority, for the moment at least, seems to be dissolved. His majesty is represented, in the last despatches from Madrid, as having wholly abandoned himself to the tide of events, and as conceding whatever is called for by the provisional Junta and the clubs.
  The authority of the provisional government does not appear to extend beyond the two Castilles and a part of Andalusia:—Distinct local authorities prevail in the various provinces, and the king's personal safety is regarded as extremely liable to be hazarded, by any step which might lay him open to the suspicion of entertaining a design to bring about a counter-revolution, whether by internal or external means.
  This important subject having been referred to, and considered by the duke of Wellington, his memorandum accompanies this minute.—His grace does not hesitate, upon his intimate experience of Spanish affairs, to pronounce, that the Spanish nation is, of all the European people, that, which will least brook any interference from abroad; he states the many instances in which, during the last war, this distinguishing trait of national character rendered them obstinately blind to the most pressing considerations of public safety: he states the imminent danger in which the suspicion of foreign interference, and more especially of interference on the part of France, is likely to involve the king—and he further describes the difficulties which would oppose themselves to any military operations in Spain, undertaken for the purpose of reducing, by force, the nation to submit themselves to an order of things, to be either suggested or prescribed to them from without.
  Sir Henry Wellesley has, in coincidence with this opinion, reported the alarm which the intended mission of M. de La Tour du Pin had excited at Madrid, the prejudice which, in the opinion of all the foreign ministers at Madrid., it was calculated to occasion to the king's interests and possible safety. He also reports the steps which it was in contemplation to have adopted on the part of the king to endeavour to prevent the French minister from prosecuting his journey to Madrid, when the intelligence of the abandonment of the mission was received from Paris.
  At all events, therefore, until some central authority shall establish itself in Spain, all notion of operating upon her councils seems utterly impracticable; and calculated to lead to no other possible result, than that of compromising either the king or the allies, or probably both.
  The present state of Spain, no doubt, seriously extends the range of political agitation in Europe, but it must nevertheless be Admitted, that there is no portion of Europe of equal magnitude, in which such a revolution could have happened, less likely to menace
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  other states with that direct and imminent danger, which has always been regarded, at least in this country, as alone constituting the case which would justify external interference. If the case is not such as to warrant such an interference—if we do not feel that we have at this moment either the right or the means to interfere with effect by force—if the semblance of such an interference is more likely to irritate than to overawe, and if we have proved, by experience, how little a Spanish government, whether of king or Cortes, is disposed to listen to advice from foreign states, is it not prudent at least to pause, before we assume an attitude which would seem to pledge us in the eyes of Europe to some decisive proceeding? Before we embark in such a measure, is it not expedient, at least, to ascertain with some degree of precision, what we really mean to do? This course of temperate and cautious policy, so befitting the occasion and the critical position in which the king is personally placed, will in no degree fetter our action, when, if ever, the case for acting shall arise.
  In the mean time, as independent states, the allied powers may awaken, through their respective missions at Madrid, with not less effect than would attend any joint representation, a salutary apprehension of the consequences that might be produced by any violence offered to the king's person or family, or by any hostile measures directed against the Portuguese dominions in Europe, for the protection of which Great Britain is bound by specific treaty.
  In conveying any such intimation, however, the utmost delicacy should be observed; and though it is to be presumed that the views and wishes of all the allied powers must be essentially the same, and that the sentiments they are likely to express cannot materially differ, it does not follow that they should speak either in their corporate character, or through any common organ—both which expedients would be calculated rather to offend, than to conciliate or persuade.
  There can be no doubt of the general danger which menaces more or less the stability oall existing governments, from the principles which are afloat, and from the circumstances that so many states of Europe are now employed in the difficult task of casting anew their governments upon the representative principle—but the notion of revising, limiting or regulating the course of such experiments, either by foreign council or by foreign force, would be as dangerous to avow, as it would be impossible to execute; and the illusion too prevalent on this subject, should not be encouraged in our intercourse with the allies.—That circumstances might arise out of such experiments in any country directly menacing to the safety of other states, cannot be denied; and against such a danger, well ascertained, the allies may justifiably, and must in all prudence, be on their guard; but such is not the present case.—Fearful, as is the example which is furnished

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  by Spain, of an army in revolt, and a monarch swearing to a constitution which contains in its frame hardly the semblance of a monarchy, there is no ground for apprehension that Europe is likely to be speedily endangered by Spanish arms.
  In this alliance, as in all other human arrangements, nothing is more likely to impair, or even to destroy its real utility, than any attempt to push its duties and its obligations beyond the sphere which its original conception and understood principles will warrant.—It was an union for the reconquest and liberation of a great proportion of the continent of Europe from the military dominion of France; and having subdued the conqueror, it took the state of possession, as established by the peace, under the protection of the alliance.—It never was, however, intended as an union for the government of the world, or for the superintendence of the internal affairs of other states.
  We shall be found in our place when actual danger menaces the system of Europe; but this country cannot, and will not, act upon abstract and speculative principles of precaution. The alliance which exists had no such purpose in view in it's original formation.—It was never so explained to parliament; if it had, most assuredly the sanction of parliament would never have been given to it; and it would now be a breach of faith, were the ministers of the Crown to acquiesce in a construction being put upon it, or were they to suffer themselves to be betrayed into a course of measures, inconsistent with those principles which they avowed at the time, and which they have since uniformly maintained both at home and abroad.
  No. 2.—Instructions drawn up by the Marquis of Londonderry, and transferred to the Duke of Wellington, September 14, 1822.
  (Extract.) With respect to Spain, there seems nothing to add to, or vary, in the course of policy hitherto pursued—Solicitude for the safety of the royal family—Observance of our engagements with Portugal—and a rigid abstinence from any interference in the internal affairs of that country—must be considered as forming the basis of his majesty's policy.
  No. 3.—The Duke of Wellington to Mr. Secretary Canning.—Received November 7.
  (Extract.) Verona, October 29, 1822. I shall object to every thing, excepting that the allies should call upon France to explain herself; and then that they should recommend to her, if peace be her object, as it must be that of the other powers, that she should ask for the good offices of one of her allies, to explain to Spain her desire to: remain at peace.
  If the allies should agree to recommend this line, and should enter into no treaty nor make any declaration, hostile to Spain, and France should then desire the good offices of England, I shall consent to give them. But if there should be any defensive treaty, or even declaration against Spain on the part of the allies, I shall consider it my duty to decline to become a party to either, and shall endeavor to make them feel, collectively, that the treaty or declaration will only render useless the efforts of the power which is to use its good offices to maintain peace; and I shall also decline to consent, on the part of my government, to use such good offices: but if pressed to do so, I shall take the demand ad referendum.
  No. 4.—Mr. Secretary Canning to the Duke of Wellington.
  (Extract.) Foreign Office, Nov. 8, 1822. I am to signify to your grace his majesty's entire approbation of your conduct and language in respect to the affairs of Spain—and particularly of the determination not to promise the good offices of his majesty between that country and France, in any other case than that of a simple and specific request to that effect on the part of France, unaccompanied by "any treaty or any declaration of the allies hostile to Spain."
  No. 5.—(Translation) Memorandum relative to the conduct of Spain; communicated by M. de Jabat to Mr. Secretary Canning, on the 18th February, 1823.
  If proofs of the moderation of Spain, and of the little foundation with which she is accused of following the system of propagating her political principles, be required—here are three undeniable facts: The junta of Oporto applies in 1820 for Spanish troops; refused:—The government of Naples, in the beginning of 1821, makes the same request; refused:—In 1822, on the application of France, the French refugees, captain Nantil, &c. were made to retire 30 leagues into the country, whilst the generals Eguia, Abreu, &c. and the self-named regency were organizing bands of the faith at Bayonne and Perpignan.
  In 1822 we declined the services of three French regiments of the Army of Observation. Up to this day, no French soldier or peasant can be cited whom we have seduced, armed, paid, and thrust into the bosom of his country to devastate it. We have not raised the tricolour flag; we have not refused to publish a generous and salutary amnesty; we have not invited to evening assemblies of etiquette French outlaws and conspirators; we have not tolerated that an individual at Madrid should invest himself publicly with the title of chargé-ďaffaires of the regency of France, whilst his excellency, M. de Lagarde was ambassador of his most Christian majesty, at the court of his Catholic majesty. In fine, have done nothing (for these negative proofs might form too diffuse a catalogue)—we have

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  done nothing against the French of those things which the French (that is to say the French government) have done against us; and we have done for the governments which excommunicate us, what none of them have done for us.
  If there be any question of verbal or written disavowals, England has received the most solemn disavowals on the subject of Portugal; Austria on the subject of Italy; and Europe, especially in the memorable sitting of the 11th January 1823, has heard the representatives of Spain declare, in appealing for the truth of it to the history of what passed from 1808 to 1814, and from 1820 to 1823, both, 1st. That their country will never interfere with the internal affairs of other powers; and 2ndly. That neither will she consent to the scandalous dictation which it is wished to impose upon her.

FRANCE.
No. 1.—Mr. Secretary Canning to Sir Charles Stuart.
(Extract.) Foreign Office, March 31, 1823. The article, of which I enclose a copy, is contained in the treaty between his majesty and the king of Spain of 1814, but has never been published. It was originally a secret article, but his majesty having declined agreeing to it as such (from the opinion that it ought to be communicated to his majesty's allies), its title was changed from that of a secret to a separate article. It formed part of the treaty communicated to the court of France in 1814, by the duke of Wellington, then his majesty's ambassador at Paris; but it was omitted in the copy of the treaty laid before parliament, at the express desire of the French government, signified by the prince de Talleyrand, then minister for foreign affairs.
M. de Chateaubriand will, I have no doubt, at once acknowledge that such an act of compliance with the wishes of the French government, enhances his majesty's claim upon France, to respect the solemn obligation of this article.
Your excellency will particularly remark to M. de Chateaubriand, that the treaty of 1814, was not negotiated till after our army had been withdrawn from Spain.
(Inclosure in No. 1.) Separate article.
His Catholic majesty engages, not to enter into any treaty or engagement with France of the nature of that known under the denomination of the family compact, nor any other which may affect the independence of Spain, which may be injurious to the interests of his Britannic majesty, or may be contrary to the strict alliance which is stipulated by the present treaty.
The present separate article shall form an integral part of the treaty of friendship and alliance signed on the fifth day of July, and shall have the same force and validity as if it
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was inserted, word for word, and shall be ratified, and the ratifications shall be exchanged within forty days, or sooner if possible.
In witness whereof, we, the undersigned plenipotentiaries have signed, in virtue of our respective full powers, the present separate article, and sealed it with the seals of our arms. Done at Madrid, this 5th day of July, 1814.
(L. S.) M. EL DUQUE DE SAN CARLOS.
(L. S.) H. WELLESLEY.
No. 2.—Sir Charles Stuart to Mr. Secretary Canning.—Received April 10.
(Extract.) Paris, April 7, 1823. M. de Chateaubriand assured me, that the French government are quite resolved to respect the obligations of the article which I communicated to him.

PORTUGAL.
No. 1.—Mr. Secretary Canning to Sir Charles Stuart.
(Extract.) Foreign Office, Dec. 3, 1822. Your excellency will take an opportunity of obtaining from M. de Villèle some information respecting the nature of the recent communications between the French and the Portuguese governments.
No. 2.—Sir Charles Stuart to Mr. Secretary, Canning.—Received December 15.
(Extract) Paris, December 12, 1822. In answer to the inquiries I have been authorized to bring forward, respecting the nature of the communications which have taken place between this government and the court of Portugal, the duke Mathieu de Montmorency has shown me the correspondence of the French ministers with M. de Lesseps.
It appears from this correspondence, that M. Oliveira, the Portuguese chargé-ď affaires at this court, called upon M. de Villèle in the course of the summer, for the purpose of representing the anxiety to which the assembling of a representing force on the Pyrenees had given rise at Lisbon, and of expressing a hope that his excellency would give him a full explanation of the views entertained by the French government, with respect to Portugal. M. de Villèle assured him, that nothing could warrant any feeling of uneasiness on the pate of the Portuguese government; that the distance of that country had not permitted him to contemplate the possible effect, which the concentration of troops in France could produce upon a nation, with whose institutions or government the French ministers could have no desire to interfere.
No. 3.—(Translation) The Viscomte de Chateaubriand to the Portuguese Chargé ďAffaires at Paris. Communicated by the Viscomte de Marcellus to M. Secretary Canning, March 7, 1823.
(Extract.)
The Portuguese government thinks fit to protest against the principle promulgated in the speech delivered by his majesty on the 28th of January, at the opening of the present session The king of France has a right to hold to his people the language which he thinks proper; and it would be difficult to understand how the Portuguese government can take umbrage at a speech addressed to the deputies of France.
If the French army should be obliged to enter Spain, the Portuguese chargé-ď affaires will be at perfect liberty to quit the French territory, in conformity to the orders he has received from his court.
If the French government is forced to declare war against the Spanish government, it is, not to support political theories, but because her immediate safety and her essential interests are compromised by the internal transactions of Spain. France, not being in the same situation with regard to Portugal, sees no plausible motive to induce the government of his most faithful majesty, to renounce the relations of peace and friendship. France hopes that she shall not have to repel an unprovoked aggression; nor to maintain a defensive war, which would have no other foundation or pretext on the part of those who should declare it, than the promulgation of a principle on which the political law of France is founded.
As to future arrangements respecting the residence of consuls, the French government sees no occasion to enter into any arrangement upon that subject, because it has never been the intention of his most Christian majesty to recall, either his chargé-ďaffaires or his consuls, from Portugal. He will in future adopt such measures as may be consistent with his dignity. The undersigned, &c.
(Signed) CHATEAUBRIAND.
No. 4.—(Translation.) M. de Chateaubriand to the French Chargé ď affaires at Lisbon. Communicated by Viscomte Marcellus to Mr. Secretary Canning, February 3, 1823.
(Extract.) Paris, January 30, 1823. The letter which I had the honour of writing to you on the 13th of the present month, confirms all those which my predecessor had addressed to you, respecting the friendly dispositions of France towards Portugal.
You have constantly been instructed to assure that government, that our armaments were not directed against Portugal;—that the maintaining a body of troops in the vicinity of the Pyrenees had no other object than to place us in a state of defence, should our territory or our institutions be menaced by Spain; and should the conduct of that power render a rupture unavoidable:—but that we separated the cause of Spain from that of Portugal, against which power we had no complaint; and that we wished not to see our relations with her interrupted.
No. 5.—Sir Charles Stuart to Mr. Secretary Canning.—Received April 20.
Paris, April 17, 1823.
Sir;—The Portuguese chargé-ďaffaires at this court has addressed a note to the Viscomte de Chateaubriand, stating, that, in virtue of the instructions he has received from his government, he considers the relations of amity between the two countries to have been interrupted, from the moment the French army, crossed the frontier of Spain, and that he must, therefore, demand his passports.
This communication has been answered by a note from M. de Chateaubriand, referring to former declarations, that it is the desire and intention of his most Christian majesty's government to continue at peace with Portugal; that if, however, the manifestation of these friendly sentiments will not induce Monsieur de Sampayo to suspend the execution of his orders, until the result of a reference to Lisbon shall be known, his passports will be delivered to him; but that the French ministers do not think it necessary., on that account to withdraw the chargé-ďafiaires, or the consular agents, who are actually employed in Portugal to maintain the usual relations between the two courts. I have the honour to be, &c.
(Signed) CHARLES STUART.

USURY LAWS.—
Mr. Serjeant Onslow, in rising to ask for leave to bring in a bill to repeal the Usury Laws, said, that he was encouraged to do so by the recommendation of a committee of that House, which had taken the subject into full consideration. After reading the resolutions to which that committee had come, in 1818, and contending, that if the conclusions which it had then formed were correct, nothing, had since occurred to invalidate them, he took a rapid review of the usury laws of this country, from their origin down to the present time, and insisted that they were not founded upon any principle of policy, but had their rise in religious prejudices. The learned serjeant quoted the authority of several writers, and the opinions of several witnesses examined before the committee, showing the inconveniences of a rate of interest fixed by law, without reference to circumstance, and concluded by moving "That leave be given to bring in a bill to repeal the Usury laws."
Leave was given to bring in the bill.

IRISH GOVERNMENT.—
Mr. C. Grantasked the patient indulgence of the House whilst he addressed a few words to it upon a subject in which he might be considered personally interested. The House

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would recollect, that in the debate of Thursday, certain observations had been made by the president of the board of control, relative to the administration of Ireland for some years back. Now, it had gone forth to the world, that it was the opinion of his right hon. friend that all the governments of Ireland, preceding that of the marquis of Wellesley, had been partial in the administration of justice. As far as his recollection served, the words of his right hon. friend did not convey such an imputation; and he should not have thought it necessary to call the attention of the House to the circumstance, if an impression had not been made on the public mind, that such an imputation had been cast upon the government with which he had been connected. He was as fully convinced that his right hon. friend had no intention of making such an imputation, as he was t hat such an imputation, if made, would be perfectly without foundation.
Mr. Wynnsaid, he had no difficulty in stating, that he had no intention of puting to any government of Ireland, or to any individual connected with it, any partiality in the administration of justice. If he conceived that any such partiality had been exercised, he should have felt it his bounden duty to bring it forward as a substantive charge. What he had stated had been to this effect—that in joining the administration he had reserved to him-self the liberty of supporting, or originating either in council or in parliament, any proposition which tend to ameliorate the condition of Ireland; amongst which he considered Catholic Emancipation to stand first and foremost. He had further stated, that the nomination of the marquis Wellesley as lord-lieutenant and of Mr. Plunkett, as attorney-general of Ireland, held out to him the prospect that firm and conciliatory government was about to be established in Ireland. He had likewise stated his opinion, that the existing laws should be equally administered to all classes of his Majesty's subjects in that country; and that the Catholics should be permitted to enjoy their fair share of those advantages to which they were entitled. In stating this stipulation, he did not intend to make any imputation on the preceding governments of Ireland. He felt that, when all those who differed as to the mode of governing Ireland agreed in the necessity of doing all that could be done to conciliate it, nothing
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ought to be said that could by possibility lead to further difference of opinion.
Mr. Secretary Peelsaid, this subject he must claim for himself and for those with whom he had acted in the administration of Ireland, that they had acted with most perfect impartiality. He would say further that a most scrupulous attention had been paid, to prevent the operation of any religious prejudices in the administration of justice. In any case where Protestants and Catholics were concerned in an outrage, instead of trusting to local representations, counsel of eminence were sent to the spot, and if there was a chance that they could not direct the administration of justice impartially, the law officers of the Crown were directed to take it into their own bands. So far from any religious distinction operating to an exclusion from offices to which they were legally admissible, he could say that in no one case had he made the inquiry, whether a candidate for office was Catholic or Protestant. In the whole of the six years that he was connected with the government of Ireland, he did not recollect a single instance in which any objection was ever made by any member of it to any individual because he was a Catholic. If his own particular feelings, as well as those of the other leading members of the administration, on the subject of the Catholic claims, had not been sufficient to produce impartiality in their conduct towards the Catholics, there were still two individuals in the administration—namely, the solicitor-general, and the chancellor of the exchequer for Ireland, who were distinguished for the zeal with which they advocated the right of their fellow country men to complete emancipation; and yet, though he differed in opinion with those gentlemen upon that subject, he had never differed with them in opinion in any question that related to the administration of justice, or to the admission of Catholics into such offices as they were by law entitled to fill. With respect to his own readmission into office, he would frankly declare, that he never would have consented to enter into any administration, had he supposed that there was an impression in the minds of his colleagues that he had been guilty of any partiality in the administration of justice, or in the admission of individuals in office. He had been appointed to the post of secretary of state for the home department, and had been placed in direct cor-

1147
respondence with the marquis Wellesley; and he could assure the House, that as far as he was concerned he had done all in his power to carry that nobleman's designs into execution. It was impossible for, him to acquiesce in any compliments that were made to himself at the expense of those with whom he had been connected; and he claimed credit for all of them, for having acted on the principles which he had already stated.

REFORM OF PARLIAMENT.
Mr. A. Pelhampresented a petition from the county of Lincoln, praying a reform in parliament.
Mr. A. Smith, though not present at the meeting, was able to take upon himself to say, that it did not consist of more than 500, including men, women, and children. Much as the word had been stigmatized in the mouth of a noble duke, he would assert, that a more complete farce had never been played off than at the meeting at which this petition was agreed to.
Sir R. Heronmaintained, that the meeting was extremely respectable. The amendment of major Cartwright for a radical reform, as it was called, was negatived most decisively, only about twenty hands having been held up in its favour. It had been said, that the majority was against reform; if so, why did not they effectually resist the petition? That the enemies of all reform were numerously assembled on that day, he would not deny; for, in the reading-room at Lincoln, he had never seen so large a collection of big-wigs, shovel-hats, and short petticoats in his life. They, however, had not thought it right to stand forward, and the petition was carried.
Colonel Johnsonavowed himself a radical, however unpalatable the term might be in that House. He had seconded the amendment of major Cartwright, and was satisfied that the great majority of the people were in favour of reform.
Lord Miltonsaid, that the duty had been imposed upon him of presenting the petition of the freeholders of Yorkshire. The; petition, he might assert, was unanimously carried, and the persons assembled were at least ten times as numerous as at Lincoln; and generally it might be stated, that at least among the middling and inferior classes, great uniformity of opinion prevailed upon this question. When sixteen years ago, a contest took
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place for the county, every part of Yorkshire was ransacked for voters, and 23,070 came to the poll. To this petition no less than 17,083 names were affixed, forming two-thirds of the free holders of Yorkshire. The utmost pains had been taken to exclude the names of persons who were not bona fide freeholders; and he did not believe, having gone over the whole of them, that there were fifty to which an exception could be reasonably made. One or two had signed as trustees, a few more as free holders of Hull, and of York, who ought properly not to have been included, and he believed that the names of five females would be found upon the petition. Strictly, perhaps, they were out of their place, although, according to the scheme of reform of major Cartwright, they would be entitled to vote. With regard to the opinions of the petitioners, he entirely concurred in them. He had formerly, once or twice, voted against reform, but the conduct of the House had converted him to the persuasion that a reform was absolutely necessary. In this conversion he was not singular. The same change had taken place in the opinions of a man of most calm and sober judgment, the hon. member for Thetford. The same remark would apply to the noble member for Salisbury (lord Folkestone) a man of inflexible political integrity, though in some of his notions eccentric. A similar conversion had occurred in the case of a noble relation, one of the members for the county of Nottingham (lord W. Bentinck). The petitioners did not point out any particular course with respect to reform upon which they wished the House to proceed: and he approved of their silence upon that head. The House would do well to attend to opinions which were backed by the authority of more than 17,000 names; that list embodying, independent of respectable free holders, absolutely a majority of the aristocracy of the county of York.—The noble lord, after declaring as his fixed opinion, that the House had long ceased to do its duty faithfully, moved, that the petition be brought up.
Mr. Stuart Wortley, although be willingly bore testimony to the excellent conduct of the meeting, and to the high respectability of the names affixed to the petition, yet dissented entirely from the opinions which that petition expressed.
Mr. R. Colborne, thought that the modern practice of publishing parliamentary

1149
debates, by subjecting public men to the influence of public opinion, had done much towards a practical reform.
The petition was then brought up and read. It was 380 feet in length.
Mr. Sykesreminded the House, that the signatures had been fairly and openly obtained, at a time when, from the general cheapness of provisions, there was little incitement to discontent. He believed that for the present petition, the friends of reform were a good deal indebted to the late member for Liverpool, who now held so distinguished a place in the councils of the Crown (Mr. Canning). That right hon member, in a speech at Liverpool, had pointedly alluded to the reformers of the county of York. The county of York by its petition now answered the right hon. gentleman.
Ordered to lie on the table.

CONDUCT OF THE SHERIFF OF DUBLIN.
Sir F. Burdettsaid, he rose in pursuance of the notice which he had given of a motion growing out of the discussion of a question of a former evening relative to the late trials in Dublin. It was a subject which nothing but a sense of imperative duty could induce him to undertake. All who heard him must have witnessed, on various occasions, how unpleasant and even dangerous it was, to touch upon any of the circumstances connected with the misfortunes of Ireland. That country was in such a state of peculiar difficulty, that no question really affecting its interest could be discussed without giving rise to irritated feeling; but at the same time that it was painful to witness this, it was also the duty of the House to find out some alleviation for the evils of that country, and to ameliorate its condition, seeing that that condition was so intimately interwoven with the welfare and happiness of the empire. It was time to put an end to a state, which was that of a smothered civil war continually breaking out into acts of mutual hostility. If he believed that the bringing under the consideration of the House any of the transactions of party in Ireland would, instead of palliating, tend to irritate still further the feelings of the country, he should be the last person who would not be desirous to draw the veil of oblivion over every past event in the sister kingdom. But he looked upon it as childish, idle and vain, to be apprehensive of discussing Irish questions from the fear of
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increasing party exasperation. It was like the dread of a superstitious person, who would not whistle in the storm for fear of increasing the wind. No one could doubt that events had taken place, from which had arisen the necessity of a full and free inquiry into the state of that unhappy country. When the subject with which his motion was connected was last under the discussion of the House, the hon. member for Armagh—who had introduced it with an eloquence which gave so much gratification to the House, and so much gratification to the House, and which he hoped would produce a beneficial effect to his country—had embraced a variety of topics, which he did not propose to touch upon. He wished not to speak the language of party, or to deal out any measure of partiality on one side or the other. He knew the issue was regarded in the light of a trial between the contending parties, at the head of which were two high official persons—the attorney-general for Ireland and the high sheriff; the former of whom was entrusted with a power, which, however, he considered it oppressive and unconstitutional—he meant that of filing ex officio informations—formed no subject for their present consideration. With that authority, which allowed the attorney-general to put any man on his trial on his own bare suggestion, he had now nothing to do. But holding that high office, the learned gentleman had thought necessary to make a grave and serious charge against an Officer, scarcely less intrusted with the care of the public welfare than himself. He thought, therefore, that this was a case in which the House was imperatively called upon to exercise those great inquisitorial functions which belonged to it, for the safety of the constitution and the protection of the liberty of the subject. He thought, too, that they could not, upon these grounds, refuse to accede to the motion with which he intended to conclude his address. The more he had considered this subject, the more gratified he was that he had not been called upon to give a distinct vote when the subject was last before the House. His first impression had been one of decided hostility to the attorney-general, against whom a heavy charge had been made; that of having put a man on his trial by virtue of an ex officio information, after an indictment preferred against him for the same offence had been thrown out by a grand jury. This had appeared at first to be a case of gross and

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unexampled oppression: but after hearing the statement of the right hon. gentleman, he felt that if ever a case had occurred in which the exercise of that power could be justified, this was the case. So far was he now from thinking, that this was an act of oppression on the part of the attorney-general, that he was of opinion he could not have pursued a more favourable mode towards the parties accused, than by first preferring an indictment before the grand jury, and, when he found that the ordinary courses of justice were obstructed, resorting to his ex officio information. He wished most sincerely that every other attorney-general would follow the example, and would not presume to file an information until after a grand jury had refused to find a bill; for if it were to be supposed that an attorney-general had been actuated by levity or malice, in filing an ex officio information after the rejection of a grand jury, the defendant would be greatly protected by this previous negation of the charge.—The hon. baronet then proceeded to examine the opinions of the writers who had treated of ex officio informations, and, inferring from them that they were generally unconstitutional, repeated, that this was perhaps the only case which had fallen within his observation in which their exercise was justifiable. The statements which had been made against the attorney-general had met with so decided a contradiction, that it would have been impossible for him (sir F. B.) to have concurred in a vote of censure against him. An hon. gentleman opposite wished a course to be adopted, by which neither a triumph nor the appearance of a triumph should be given to any of the parties into which Ireland was unhappily divided. Now, that course appeared to him to be the most mischievous that could be well imagined. To follow it would be to lose sight of that strict justice which the House was called upon to do between the right hon. gentleman and the grand jury. That hon. gentleman had seemed to consider it in the light of a contest between the Orange party and the Catholics of Ireland. If he (sir F. B.) had thought so, he should have been very unwilling to give a triumph to a minority of about half a million, and to have visited with discontent and despair, the great majority consisting of six millions of the people. But he must say that, with respect to the charge made against the right hon. gen-
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tleman, his own opinion of it had diminished to a small point before the speech of the hon. member for Armagh was concluded, when he had given up the point of the legality of his conduct, and only insisted upon his want of discretion. Upon that point he was not required to give an opinion. The hon. member for Armagh had asked, what was there, that was right to be done on one side of the channel, and not right to be done on the other? He would tell him, that impartial Englishmen, who looked to the customs and habits of their own country only, would find it impossible to form a fair opinion on a question like that, when they knew the extraordinary state of that country. There must be a general impression on the minds of Englishmen that there was no impartial justice in Ireland for the great bulk of the Roman Catholic population. That was his own impression; though he would not allow it to influence his consideration of questions in that House. But, when he saw the situation of the right hon. gentleman, endeavouring to reduce a party to the government of law, that had long domineered over the people, and checked and controlled the due course of justice—when he saw the strange anomaly of a lord-lieutenant in Ireland, willing and desirous to protect the whole people—when he saw the first law officer of the Crown anxious to secure the multitude against the vexations of organised and long-confirmed oppression, and trying the strength of the law, against the strength of a faction; when he saw this and took into view all the extraordinary circumstances of the situation of that country, he felt he should be culpable had he agreed to a vote which would have condemned a system intended to lead to equal justice and political amelioration. The right hon. and learned gentleman having in his own defence stated what affected the character of other persons, whose other persons were unquestionably entitled to have the opportunity of answering the charges brought against them. At the same time, he did not think that the right hon. gentleman had been well treated by his own friends. For if they really had confidence in him, they should not have consented to suspend the opinion of parliament on his conduct; they should not have consented to leave him in a state of ambiguity—a state neither just not satisfactory. He had not the slightest idea on what ground it was possible his motion for an inquiry could

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be opposed. He could not conceive what argument could be adduced against it. He was quite sure, that the learned gentleman himself would not oppose it. He was also convinced, that the friends of the learned gentleman would give it their support. Under these circumstances, he was, therefore, at a loss to imagine by whom the motion could be resisted. He understood, however, that an amendment would be moved, ordering the prosecution of the sheriff. He did not know whether he was justified in taking up the time of the House by touching on these points, and directing the attention of gentlemen to the motives and feelings of those who were likely to oppose his motion. He should, therefore, refrain from introducing topics which were likely to irritate either party; because he wished the House, for once, to come to a cool and dispassionate vote, perfectly free from party feeling and party prejudice. He must, however, say, that if such an amendment as that to which he had alluded were proposed, he could not accede to it; because it would involve a principle not strictly just and impartial. In the first place, it would be extremely improper to give the authority and weight of that House to an accusation of which they were not at present in a condition to judge. It would be extremely unfair for the House, so circumstanced, to take any step which might convey an opinion either on the one side or on the other. By the proceeding of the other night, the House seemed to agree, that an exact equilibrium should be preserved between the parties; and that at that time no further proceeding should take place. At the same time it was quite clear, that it was impossible the matter could be allowed to rest where it was. It would be extremely unjust, however, on the part of the House, to order a prosecution to be instituted against the sheriff, until they were in possession of the whole of the case, and it was with a view to put them in possession of the whole of the case that he should now move, "that the statement made by the attorney-general of Ireland, in his place, on the 15th day of April, respecting the proceedings on the trials of Forbes, Graham, and Handwich, renders it incumbent on this House to institute the strictest examination into the Conduct of the Sheriff of the city of Dublin on that occasion."
Mr. Plunkettsaid, he meant to trouble the House with a few observations on
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what had fallen from the hon. baronet. He begged leave, in the first instance, to assure him, that he did not mean to offer any opposition to the motion. He was, indeed, the last person in the House from whom such an opposition could be expected. He thought, however, that his case did not stand on the ground on which the hon. baronet had thought fit to place it. He had, it was true, in the discharge of his duty, exercised a power which appeared to give offence to some persons; and the question ultimately resolved itself into this—whether he had exercised a sound discretion in the application of that power? The opinion of the House was called for on this point—whether he had used his discretion unduly, oppressively, or improperly? It was not, whether, under the same circumstances, he should again exercise the same power—or whether, in the peculiar situation of Ireland, it was necessary to resort to his legal prerogative? These were not the disputed points. The question was—whether he had exercised the power entrusted to him with a fair and honest intention? It was not because others would, perhaps, under similar circumstances, have acted differently, that he was to be censured. Different individuals would take different views of the expediency or inexpediency of exercising a discretionary power; but still their intentions might be equally pure and upright. The situation of a public functionary would be most lamentable, if, because he differed from others in the use of a discretionary power, he was, therefore, to become the object of censure, no matter how just and proper his motives were. In order to make a public functionary the fair object of censure, the House must arrive at this conclusion—that he had acted on some sinister principle. If what he had done, and which he considered neither unconstitutional nor illegal, came to be inquired into, no censure could be directed against him, unless the House was of opinion that he had acted from a love of oppression, from a malicious intention, or from some other base and unworthy motive. If they could not arrive at this opinion, he was discharged from all matter of accusation. He thanked the hon. baronet for the fair and candid mode in which he had brought forward this proposition; and he would do him the justice to say, that on no occasion did he ever forsake that gentlemanly urbanity of

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manners which he had displayed that night. Under the circumstances of the case, he (Mr. P.) had, on a former evening, stated the reasons which induced him to act as he had done. He, however, knew, that the statement which he had then made for the purpose of absolving him-self, must of necessity draw after it this inquiry. But he would ask whether this brought the question to the point—whether, in exercising his legal power, he was, or was not censurable? In his opinion it clearly did not. If he brought forward charges against individuals, he might on that account, lay himself open to the censure of the House; but that censure could have nothing to do with his conduct in the exercise of his legal prerogative. Having stated the general grounds on which he conceived his conduct to have been justifiable, he next stated the particular grounds on which, as it appeared to him, it became peculiarly necessary that he should adopt the discretion which had given rise to so much animadversion. In the course of that statement, he certainly had advanced matter which involved a very high censure on an individual holding a situation of great importance. What he asked of the House to give him credit for on that occasion was, not that the charge was exactly as he had stated it—not that he knew it of his own knowledge to be a perfect truth—but that it was conveyed to his mind in such a manner, as fully impressed him with an idea of its truth. Now he would ask, if he were completely satisfied in his own mind that those facts were true, was he not justified in acting on that impression? It was a case of very great importance to the country—it was a case in which he felt that justice ought to be done as speedily as possible; and therefore he proceeded by the readiest mode. Was he, under all the circumstances, to forego any proceedings against the rioters, until he could procure affidavits which would enable him to institute a prosecution against the sheriff? If he had done so, he thought it would have been a gross violation of his duty. The only question, therefore, was—whether he had that reasonable conviction in his mind of the truth of those facts which would form a fair ground for adopting the proceedings to which he had resorted? He certainly felt that conviction; and therefore he contended, that the proposed inquiry was one in which he had no more
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interest than the hon. baronet, or any other person in that House; except that he should be sorry if, by any chance, it could be supposed that he brought a charge against a public officer lightly or unadvisedly. He meant not to allege any thing which could give rise to acrimonious feeling; but this he would say, that his suspicions with respect to the conduct of the sheriff were not removed, but were considerably strengthened, by what had since taken place. He had no hesitation in declaring, that he thought the conduct of the sheriff was a very proper object for prosecution. He deemed it right now to state, without meaning to interfere with any course which the House might think proper to pursue, that if the business were not taken out of his hands by the House, it was his intention to institute such a prosecution, for the purpose of arriving at the real justice of the case. He agreed with the hon. baronet that it would be an essential denial of justice, if the sheriff were not afforded an opportunity of entering on his defence. If the House proceeded with this inquiry, the case would, of course, be taken out of his hands. If, however, the House declined interfering, he would institute such a prosecution as the case called for.—Having said thus much, it would, perhaps, be expected that he should give some explanation to the House, as to his not having proceeded sooner. It might be asked, "Why did you not proceed against the sheriff before, if you considered him liable to prosecution?" He would, in answer to that question, state what must appear to every candid mind a full and sufficient reason. He had received the information with respect to the conduct of the sheriff from different quarters. As that information reached him, he communicated it to the lord lieutenant; and it was from time to time communicated to his majesty's government. To show, that the idea of a prosecution was no after thought, he had to observe, that he had stated to the government, that it would be a matter of grave and serious consideration, whether a prosecution should not be instituted against the sheriff for his conduct in empanelling the grand jury. From the first moment the information was given to him relative to the manner in which the sheriff had conducted himself, the impression was strong on his mind that the matter must be probed to the bottom. The trial of the rioters commenced on the 24th or

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25th of Jan., and certainly that was not the fit time for instituting a prosecution. Mr. Sheriff Thorpe was the person by whom the panel for the grand jury was returned. At his (Mr. P.'s) desire, he wished the two sheriffs to join in that panel, the thing being perfectly legal: he conceived that would have been the better way, as two of the traversers were related to Mr. Sheriff Thorpe. The fact, however, was, that the panel was signed only by Mr. Sheriff Thorpe, for though he showed it to his brother sheriff', no alteration was made in it. He, however, had hoped that the petty jury for the trial of the traversers would have been differently returned; and that thus a fair trial would take place. Therefore it was, that he did not think it necessary to stop the proceedings, for the purpose of prosecuting one of the sheriffs. Soon after his arrival in town, the hon. member for Armagh gave notice of a charge which he meant to bring against him in that House. He asked, whether he would have been justified if, when accusations were pending against himself, he had instituted a prosecution against the sheriff. When the hon. member for Armagh gave notice of his motion, he (Mr. P.) entreated that it might be brought forward immediately. He complained of having that charge suspended over his head for two months. Until five minutes before he stood up to defend himself, he did not know what the specific accusation against him would be. If, under these circumstances, he had instituted a proceeding against the sheriff, would it not have been said, that it was intended as a set off against the accusation levelled at himself? As regarded himself, he thought the question had been completely disposed of the other evening; as the proposition that he was not influenced by any undue motive in the exercise of his discretion was acquiesced in. As regarded the sheriff; he repeated, that if the House did not take the matter out of his hands, he would institute a prosecution. He must do it also by the unfavourite mode of an ex-officio information; for as to applying to a grand jury of the county of Dublin to find a bill against the high sheriff, that would be utterly useless. He should file an ex-officio information, and he should next apply to the court of King's-bench, that the case might be tried at the bar of that court, but that the venue might be directed to come from another county. The sheriff would then have an
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opportunity, by the testimony of witnesses, and by other legal means, to make his defence. If, on the other hand, the House resolved to enter on an immediate inquiry, to that course he could not possibly entertain the slightest objection. But as in the event of the institution of a prosecution, he should be called upon to prosecute, it was not his intention to give his vote either for or against the motion. He, however, perfectly agreed with the hon. baronet, that it would be rank injustice if the sheriff, who wished to vindicate his character, were shut out from a fair opportunity of entering on that vindication.
Mr. Denmanwas of opinion, that the defence entered into on a former occasion by the learned gentleman did not excuse him, even if it were made out in evidence; and, if it were not substantiated by evidence, it really amounted to nothing. He thought the best way of showing the upright conduct of the learned gentleman would be, not by dragging forward another public functionary, but by entering on his own justification, when the question was fairly introduced. He thought the motion of the hon. member for Armagh had been very properly worded, because the offence complained of was, that recourse had been had to an ex-officio information, after the law officer of the Crown had taken his chance with a grand jury. He could not but look with astonishment at the circumstances out of which the proceedings arose. How a play-house riot, even though it might have been previously concerted, could be converted into high treason, and how under such a charge individuals could be kept in prison for several days, was what he could not understand.
Mr. Plunkettdenied that any charge of high treason had been made.
Mr. Denmansaid, that undoubtedly the parties were sent to prison and confined there for ten days, because it was stated that there offence was an attempt to assassinate the lord-lieutenant, the king's deputy in Ireland; though that charge was subsequently withdrawn, and neither the grand nor the petty jury was called on to say, whether a plan had been laid to assassinate the lord-lieutenant. He, if placed in the situation of a grand juror, would have treated the charge with contempt. Looking to the information which he now had on the subject, he would have thrown out the bill. He had read the trial

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with great attention, and, on his oath, he would state, that he believed there was no intention to molest the lord-lieutenant, before the parties went to the play-house. That there was a concerted plan to riot he believed; but, in his opinion, the throwing of the bottle was the act of a drunken individual. That it was aimed at the head of the lord-lieutenant was negatived by every witness. As to the flinging of the rattle, it was the act of a journeyman shoemaker, a boy of 18 years of age; and certainly it would have been more magnanimous in the Irish government to have overlooked the offence, rather than to have visited it with the severities of an ex-officio prosecution. He would not compare the conduct of the attorney-general in pursuing this course to that of Judge Jefferies, or of Mr. Justice Whitshed, who sent the jury back nine times, for the purpose of securing a verdict against the publisher of Dr Swift's Drapier's Letters; but certainly he was of opinion, that a public officer went greatly beyond his duty, when he threw reproach on a grand jury, and then turned round and declared, that he would use the power which was placed in his hands to contravene the decision of the jury. The learned gentleman must have known that there was a strong spirit of party in Ireland; and if he thought that it was unsafe for him to submit his case to the determination of a grand jury, that would have been a proper ground for the exercise of his power in filing an ex-officio information. But, when he had taken his chance, and his bill was ignored, it was not right to appeal from the grand jury to himself, and instead of resting satisfied with their decision, to resort to the prerogative. If the grand jury were worthy of reproach, it was not right that they should escape it; but it would have been more regular, if the charge against them had been reserved for some other occasion. He did not know at what period it had come to the learned gentleman's knowledge, that those gross mal-practices were committed by the grand jury of Dublin: but, if it were known, at the time when the proceedings against the rioters commenced, that Mr. Sheriff Thorpe prevented his brother sheriff from taking any part in striking the panel, that two of the traversers were his relations, that he declared the traversers had nothing to fear because he had struck an Orange panel, then the question was, why were not these offences
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marked out and punished? If these allegations were founded in fact, the story of the bottle and the rattle shrunk into complete insignificance; because the statement tended to prove, that the stream of justice was polluted at its very source. If it were so, the learned gentleman should have taken the earliest opportunity to vindicate the insulted laws of his country. Instead of filing informations against a few journeymen, who appeared to have been excited by one person in a higher rank of life, he should have selected a victim worthy of his indignation. He should have instantly brought the sheriff to justice. Instead of that, from January to April, no blame was thrown on the conduct of the sheriff, until the conduct of the learned gentleman happened to be arraigned. It was said by the learned gentleman, that a public functionary was not to be lightly dealt with. He agreed in that proposition. How the sheriff would apply it to his own case, he knew not; but certainly he would have a right to complain that he was hardly dealt with, if his conduct did not command that inquiry which he looked for and courted. The learned gentleman had argued, that unless it was shown that he acted from corrupt motives, he was not liable to censure. But, what the House were afraid of were, the evil consequences which might flow from a bad precedent. If they saw an invidious power badly exercised, that was sufficient to warrant their interference. The attack which the leaned gentleman had made on another party was infinitely more serious than that which had been made on himself. It had created very great disappointment, that a motion which had been levelled at the attorney-general fur Ireland should be met by the other orders of the day. Either party who acquiesced in that amendment, acquiesced in his own shame. He was sorry that this had been treated as a party question. It was very improper, when the matter was brought before a jury of the country, to treat the persons implicated in the offence as part of "a gang." They had been spoken of as a mere branch, from the great Orange society in Ireland; than which nothing, so far as the evidence went, could be more unfounded. He would not touch on the merits of those people, let them be called by whatever name gentlemen pleased. He viewed them only as subjects of the state. He might be told that they were enemies to liberty; but he

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was glad to find them resorting to the laws of the country, to defend themselves against an oppressive power. Were they not English subjects? And if so, had they been treated according to the principles of the English constitution? It was not dealing fairly with them to place them on their trial as Orangemen. It was stated, that one of them was a great Orange agent, and was with difficulty prevented, by an armed force, from dressing the statue of king William. But there was no proof given of that fact. Again, it was said, that the conspiracy was got up at the Orange-lodge where those parties met. Now, it did not appear that they had assembled in an Orange society: but the fact was assumed, because they met at a house where an Orange-lodge was in the habit of assembling.—With respect to the proposed inquiry into the conduct of the sheriff; he must say, that if one officer charged another with improper conduct, he thought the proceedings of both ought to be inquired into. It was one of the great grievances of Ireland, that the system of English law had never been fairly tried there. The manner in which juries were empanelled was peculiarly objectionable. He could not forget the unhappy affair at Manchester, where some hundreds of people, who were peaceably assembled, and for a peaceable purpose, were trampled down by an armed force. It was admitted, that hundreds were destroyed on that occasion; but the House were called on not to notice that business, because, forsooth, the grand jury of Lancashire had thrown out bills connected with it. The duty of the House was however, to investigate such abuses. When the comparative merits of attorney-generals and grand juries were talked of, he would freely say, that he preferred the decision of the worst possible grand jury to the best attorney-general. Such a jury might possibly be impartial; but there was almost an impossibility that an attorney-general could be so in particular cases; he being ex necessitate a party man. The charge here was of immense importance; it was not one for attorney-generals, or grand juries, or judges to try; but for the great tribunal of parliament itself. Let them show the people of Ireland that they had a paternal legislature to protect them, which they were entitled to enjoy as long as they showed themselves worthy of its enjoyment.
Mr. Bankeswas of opinion, that the
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attorney-general for. Ireland had shown a leaning in the prosecution against one party, which it would have been well for the calm purposes of justice if he had avoided. But he did not think this to be that sort of case which called for the exercise of the inquisitorial powers of parliament.
Lord Miltonthought, that the attorney-general for Ireland laboured under some misapprehension respecting the effect of the former debate. That learned gentleman now assumed, that he had obtained an acquittal, by the House passing to the other orders of the day; as if there was an inseparable identity between the merits of his case, and the demerits of the high sheriff. The impression made upon the House by the speech of the attorney-general had an effect unfavourable to the sheriff and the jury, but favourable to himself; but the learned gentleman should not conclude, that although the House might look unfavourably on the sheriff, they were at all satisfied with the conduct of the attorney-general. The learned gentleman had talked of corruption. No corruption whatever was imputed to him. There was indeed a charge of indiscreet exercise of authority; and had the motion of the member for Armagh been confined to that charge, he would have voted for it. The learned gentleman would now get out of the motion of the hon. baronet, by telling the House somewhat tardily, that he intended to prosecute the sheriff of Dublin. But instead of complaining of the member for Armagh for hanging the charge over his head for two months, be ought to be grateful to him for having given him an excuse for not sooner prosecuting the sheriff. If there were grounds for the transactions imputed to the sheriff of Dublin, there might be grounds for similar transactions throughout Ireland. At the bar of that House, and no where else, ought such an inquiry to be made; not so much with a view of punishing this identical sheriff, if guilty, as of holding out a warning to the sheriffs of Ireland generally.
Mr. Brownlowsaid, he persevered in his opinion, that the conduct of the attorney-general for Ireland had been harsh, unprecedented, and unconstitutional. He hoped, that upon the present occasion there would be one unanimous feeling of the irresistible necessity of an inquiry, at the bar of that House, into the conduct of the high sheriff; in order that, should he be found as guilty as he believed him in-

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nocent, he should receive that punishment which such misconduct deserved, and that they might have it in their power to eradicate, root and branch, the whole system which had fostered such a monstrous abuse of power. The attorney-general had informed the House, that he was obliged to have recourse to a harsh and injurious exercise of the prerogative, in consequence of the conduct of the sheriff, who had conspired to prevent the ends of justice from being attained. The learned gentleman had said in his place, that the jury were packed. Now, he was informed, that nineteen out of the twenty-three grand jurors who ignored the bill of indictment, usually sat as grand jurors; that their names appeared in every panel for ten years back; and that during that time they had frequently received the thanks of the judges for their upright and impartial conduct. It had been stated by the attorney-general, that one of the traversers was the first cousin of the sheriff. Now, he was no more connected with the sheriff than he was with the learned gentleman himself. The attorney-general had informed the House, that a Mr. Poole applied to the sheriff to be put on a jury; that the sheriff had consented, but that, subsequently, Mr. Poole having expressed his inclination to carry into effect the conciliatory views of the king's letter, he was not put on the jury. The high sheriff had informed him (Mr. B.), that three weeks before the jury was impanelled, Mr. Poole begged to be put on the grand jury. The sheriff said, he would submit his name to his colleague. In the mean time, a letter was addressed to the sheriffs by the Crown solicitors, by the orders of the attorney-general, requesting that both the sheriffs should join in making out the panel. Mr. Poole renewed his application to be put on the grand jury, when the sheriffs informed him that they felt the necessity of being cautious, and that he had disqualified himself by the applications he had made. Mr. Sheriff Thorpe asked what reason he had for pressing the application? "I'll tell you," said Mr. Poole; "the case of a Mr. O'Mara is to come before the grand jury. I am acquainted with facts, connected with that case, which are not known to the rest of the jury. I wish to be on the grand jury that justice may be done to Mr. O'Mara. Put me on the jury, and I'll give you my word not to divide on the question of the play-
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house riots." The sheriff replied, that nothing (after such a declaration) would induce him to put Mr. Poole on the jury. With respect to the conduct of the grand jury, there was no notice of motion respecting them, but he was authorized to say, that every thing the attorney-general had said with respect to them was incorrect and unfounded. The attorney-general had been misled and misinformed by some calumniator. The attorney-general had said, that a witness of the name of Moran had been produced before the grand jury, and that but two questions had been put to him when he was shown to the door; the jury authorized him (Mr. B.) to state, that the witness was asked a greater number of questions in the grand jury room than he was asked on the trial.—Now, he would state to the House the nature of the evidence, as far as rumour went, given on the other side. It was said, that the attorney-general had received information, that a person, seated in the pit on the night of the riot, could give material information relative to the throwing of the murderous bottle, and which, by the by, was stated to have fallen in the middle of the orchestra. That bottle, if thrown at all, might, for aught which appeared to the contrary, have been directed as much against lord Combermere as against the lord-lieutenant. The man who so offered his evidence, said, on his examination, that on the night in question he had seen a person in the pit, drinking a bottle of porter (not spirits), and after drinking the contents of the bottle, he chucked it over the stage lights. "Very well," said the attorney-general, and the witness was immediately shown to the door. He might go on multiplying similar statements, for the purpose of showing how many falsities were uttered upon the one side as well as the other; but the instance which he had adduced was sufficient to show bow little belief was to be attached to such statements on either side. Perhaps it would surprise the House to hear, that a person now dead had made affidavit to a person now living, and who could be produced, that Graham was not the man who threw the bottle, for that he himself had thrown it, and that on his death-bed he felt it necessary to declare that he had done so. The hon. member, in conclusion, alluded to the oppressive effect which an ex-officio information must necessarily have upon the interests of Mr. Thorpe, who, though

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acquitted, must bear the expense, as well as the disgrace, of such a proceeding.
Mr. Goulburnsaid, that if circumstances called for inquiry, he certainly should prefer the course proposed by his learned friend the attorney-general to that recommended by the hon. baronet. The House must perceive, that the question as it now stood, let it take what course it would, no longer involved the conduct of his learned friend or the Irish government. The question to be considered by the House was—not whether any suspicion could attach to the conduct of the attorney-general—not whether he had committed any error in judgment—but whether, upon the whole of the facts, there was prima facie ground to justify the course which his right hon. friend had pursued, whether the facts were sufficiently strong and well authenticated to make it his duty to pursue such a line of conduct? His hon. friend, who spoke last, had himself stated, that nothing more could be attributed to his right hon. friend than an indiscreet and unwise exercise of the power vested in him by law. Upon the late discussion he (Mr. G.) had agreed to accept the course proposed by his hon. friend (Mr. Bankes), not because that course was most satisfactory to the attorney-general or himself, but because such a course was likely to be most conciliatory to all the parties concerned. The real question for the consideration of the House was, whether the inquiry should be by examination at the bar, or whether it should be proceeded in in the manner proposed by the attorney-general? He was determined to vote against the motion of the hon. baronet, because the course which be proposed was not likely to do justice to the character of the sheriff; or elicit the whole facts of the case. Supposing the sheriff to be called to the bar, what could he offer in answer to depositions upon oath, except the statements of persons who could not be sworn? This, instead of serving the sheriff; would be productive of injury to his case. In his opinion, the course proposed by the attorney-general was by far the more preferable one. But there was a general principle which opposed still more strongly the course proposed by the hon. baronet. He meant the impolicy of that House allowing its dignity and high functions to be mixed up with questions which might and ought to be decided by inferior tribunals. He was aware that gentlemen on the other
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side might urge it as argument that the conduct of the sheriffs in this instance was only a specimen of what was to be expected from the Irish sheriffs generally, This he begged leave most positively to deny, The sheriffs of Ireland were, as a body, totally undeserving of such an imputation. The right hon. gentleman proceeded to argue, that it would be most unwise to institute an inquiry into the conduct of the high sheriff at the bar of the House, because, in that case, mere statements would be set up in opposition to evidence given upon oath. Such a proceeding, too, would be calculated to keep alive in Ireland those angry feelings which it was the wish of all prudent men to see extinguished. The statements made at the bar would be doled out to the public day by day—the proceedings would be continued from week to week—, and finally, the House would arrive at no result which could satisfy the minds of any class of men. For these reasons, he should vote against the motion.
Colonel Barrysaid, that if this had been a case of slight personal delinquency on the part of the sheriff, he should not wish the House to interfere in it; but, from the whole tenor of the hon. baronet's speech, he was confirmed in the idea, that public justice demanded this investigation. He thought, moreover, that such an investigation was not likely to be at all successful in its object if carried on in Ireland; and that even an ex-officio information was not competent to attain it. He called, therefore, on that House, as they loved justice and detested calumny (and here he begged to say, that he was far indeed from meaning to impute to the right hon. gentleman any thing like a designed calumny) he called upon them to bring the parties on their floor. He could by no means agree with the right hon. gentleman, that his conduct was now out of all question, for it was not the law, but the facts of the case, upon which that question must turn. The only step, indeed, that the right hon. gentleman could take, was an ex-officio information; and that could not now be effectual in that country.
Sir J. Newportsaid, that, if the House showed an unwillingness to entertain this motion the dissentions in Ireland would be increased instead of being diminished Certain members seemed to think, that the course proposed by the hon. baronet was injudicious. If such were the opinion,

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let the House at once abdicate its most important duty—let it renounce that which it ought to consider one of its most sacred obligations, the guardianship of the administration of justice. He was most anxious for the investigation of this question in this country, for another reason. In England the strength of public opinion was great. In Ireland there was no public. That country was divided into parties; but there was no public. If the question was investigated here, there would be nothing to hear from mutual animosity and conflicting passions. For this reason, he would support the motion. He could not see how it could be refused. The parties were on the spot and sought the inquiry. Two parties only had been mentioned in these transactions—the government, and the party which bearded that government. There was, however, a third party, which required justice from the House; namely, the people of Ireland.
Mr. Spring Riceobserved, that the right hon. secretary for Ireland had said, that the discussion of the other night had entirely disposed of the whole question before the House. To that proposition he must give his unqualified dissent. He would not agree to any new rule for the government of affairs in Ireland, unless it could be shown that those affairs required a different rule from that which obtained in this country. He did think, however, that if such a state of things were ever to exist in England as had recently existed in Ireland, the king's attorney-general would have been justified in adopting the same proceedings as the learned gentleman had adopted. The present question did not regard any, set of men, forming, the government of Ireland; but whether the grand jury or sheriff of Dublin possessed the power to intercept or pervert the administration of justice? Last session he happened to be placed in the chair of a committee upon the local taxation of Dublin. On that occasion it appeared, that the taxation of Dublin was principally managed through the agency of the grand jury; and in the report of that committee, it was expressly stated, that the election of the grand jury appeared to be always made from the corporation; while persons who were not members of that body, whatever other qualifications they might possess, were excluded from serving as grand jurors. The same thing was asserted in a memo-
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rial laid before the lord-lieutenant in 1819, and the same inference was drawn; namely, that this sort of limitation was obviously calculated to defeat the ends of justice. The House would desert their duty to the country, if, from any circumstances of personal inconvenience, they should shrink from the proposed inquiry.
Mr. Secretary Peelsaid, it seemed to be agreed upon all sides, that, in justice to the high sheriff and to all the parties concerned, some inquiry should take place. The question, then, was, what was the best mode of making such inquiry? He conjured the House to confine itself, in the consideration of this subject, to the principles which had ever guided them on such occasions—principles which in this instance would, he trusted, be separated from all party feelings. He appealed to any man who heard him, whether the arguments adduced for inquiry at the bar of the House were sufficient to show that this case was an exception from the general rule? The hon. member for Limerick had said, that the conduct of the grand jury ought to be inquired into. Surely the hon. member must have forgotten the terms of the motion. In that the conduct of the sheriff only was included. If they were to go farther, let it be so stated; but if they were not, let them confine themselves to the question before them. But, supposing the conduct of the grand jury was to be examined, how were they to proceed? Were they to receive the evidence of those whom the grand jury had examined, or of those who stated that the grand jury had refused to examine them? If they did this, how were they to put the grand jury on their defence? How could they call upon them to disclose that which they were bound by oath to keep secret? This was not a case in which the political circumstances of Ireland could be taken into consideration. The noble member for Yorkshire had argued, that this was a case where the House was bound to inquire not only into the conduct of the sheriff of Dublin, but into the conduct of sheriffs generally. Now, this was opposed by the hon. member for Limerick, who stated, that the case was widely different from that of other sheriffs: and this was a reason which would induce him to send the case for inquiry, to a court of justice, rather than to the bar of that House. From the loose statements made upon this question, most of

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which were contradicted as soon as made, the bar of the House, where parties could not be examined upon oath, was not so fit a place for inquiry into the circumstances as a court of justice, where an oath must be administered. This was not a case where there was a denial of justice, for the attorney-general for Ireland was ready to prosecute, if necessary. By instituting a process at their bar, the House would be adopting that course, for which some hon. members were so ready to blame the attorney-general; namely, taking the case out of the regular and ordinary administration of the law. There were, in the recollection of the House, instances where it had interfered. He alluded particularly to that of an hon. member (Mr. W. Quin), where the delay had been not merely from day to day, but from week to week. He did not say that the time of the House should not be so occupied, if occasion required; but he did think that if this inquiry were gone into at their bar, it would be found to extend to a most inconvenient length. Besides, in the case of a conviction on the part of the House, that some ulterior proceedings were called for, they must in the end send the matter to a court of justice; and that would be sending the sheriff to trial with a strong prejudice against him, arising from the decision of the House. It would, therefore, be much better to let the matter take its course before the ordinary tribunals of the country.
Mr. Tierneysaid, that if the question was merely whether the sheriff should be prosecuted in a court of law, or examined at the bar of that House, he would agree with the right hon. gentleman in the conclusion he had come to. But this was a greater and more important question. It was a question important to that part of the empire which had been incorporated with England by the Union. He would grant that the sheriff could not be formally tried at their bar, as he might be in a court of law; but he would contend, that the circumstances of this case were such as the House had a right to inquire into. The House, as the grand inquest of the nation, had assuredly a right to enter upon such inquiries as that now proposed. Let the House go back a few months into the history of this transaction. The blame arose out of what he would call the meritorious conduct of the attorney-general for Ireland; but, and he said it with great respect, it arose also out
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of a government of compromise; for while one half the cabinet was encouraging the cry of "No popery," the other half was saying, "We will prosecute you if you do." Well, after this sort of feeling in the cabinet was known, the lord-lieutenant went to the theatre; and there a riot, which all must lament, took place. Then the attorney-general appeared to prosecute the parties; first, for a conspiracy to kill and murder the king's lieutenant: that failing, he had recourse to an indictment for a conspiracy to riot; that failing, he tried an ex-officio information; and, that failing, the learned gentleman was himself put upon his trial. [Hear, hear.] It could not be said, that in this latter case the conduct of the sheriff was tried. That was postponed; but the trial of the one and the accusation of the other were so mixed up, that they could not tell which was prosecutor or which defendant. The learned gentleman, in his defence, had inculpated the sheriff. Were they now to be told that, after such inculpation, and after the parties accused had petitioned for a fair hearing, that that should be denied, and that the only answer which should be given to them was, that they were to be prosecuted at law by the very party whom they accused of calumniating them? This was an odd way of conciliating parties. It might be understood in Ireland; but certainly it was contrary to the notions of conciliation which prevailed in this country. It was mother effect of that government of compromise to which he had before alluded. See what the situation of the House and of the learned gentleman would be, if he were directed to prosecute those parties in Ireland. With what countenance could he, their accuser here, appear officially against them in Ireland. Such a prosecution could not, in fairness, be carried on by the attorney-general. The office which he held would be degraded by it. But it was asked, would you put the grand jury on their trial by this motion? He answer ed—let the inquiry extend to all, and let he example tend to keep all corporate sheriffs in proper order. After the statement of the attorney-general, it would be injustice to all parties if inquiry were withheld. The refusal of the inquiry would tend still further to irritate the higher orders, and goad the lower to madness. Let the inquiry, then, go on at the bar of that House, and not by a prosecution by the attorney-general; for

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that would not be doing justice to the accused, nor would it satisfy the country.
Mr. Secretary Canningsaid, it had been urged, that if the House consented to go into an inquiry at their bar, it would draw all the topics of the agitated state of Ireland—all its practical grievances, and a consideration of the mode of redress—into, discussion. He little doubted that it would take, a wider range than the motion described. But surely that was not a reason why they should adopt it, if the object was, to come at the facts of the case before them. It was plain that the speeches of honourable members on the other side must be much narrowed to meet the object of the motion, or the motion must be much enlarged to meet their speeches. For his own part, in occupying the attention of the House for a short time, he thought he should do well to follow the speech of the hon. mover It seldom happened that he could agree in the general topics of the hon. baronet's speeches; but he had seldom heard one in the general topics of which he more cordially agreed than that which the hon. baronet had that night delivered. He fully concurred with him, that in the whole transaction his right hon. and learned friend stood rectus in curia. He agreed with him in the opinion that his right hon. and learned friend stood acquitted, even before he came to that part of his statement which related to the sheriff; and that part certainly did not weaken the opinion which he had formed of his right hon. and learned friend's innocence. The vote of acquittal which the House had come to was a right one; but that acquittal did not necessarily infer the guilt of any other individual. It was not necessary for the acquittal of his right hon. friend that the examinations upon oath should turn out to be true; but it was necessary for the acquittal of the individual charged; and, therefore, it was necessary that the matter should be sent to a tribunal, where the evidence would be given under the most solemn sanction. The House was precluded from hearing sworn evidence. They would therefore go into the inquiry with affidavits sworn against the sheriff of Dublin, and that sworn testimony would be met by testimony unsworn. And yet they were called to go upon this course of inquiry as a measure of justice to the sheriff of Dublin! It was easy to see in which way the justice of the case could best be met. The
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proper officer of the Crown had told the House that he was ready to institute an inquiry. "The question, then before the House was, whether there should be a prosecution instituted by his learned friend, or an inquiry at the bar of that House? No person could say with truth, this prosecution was taken up on the sudden to answer a particular purpose. He could give his testimony to, the, contrary; for he knew that such was the intention of his learned friend, and that it was only delayed because he was himself in the situation of an accused person. If an inquiry at their bar were necessary for the justification of the sheriff of Dublin, he would readily consent to that inquiry; but there was another and an obvious course, free from all the inconveniences which were acknowledged to belong to an inquiry by that House, and by which the question of guilt or innocence could be ascertained with a degree of certainty which an inquiry at the bar of that House did not possess; such an inquiry must terminate in one of two ways. The sheriff might be acquitted of all blame, but then it must be taken with the circumstance that the evidence was un sworn; but if the testimony should substantiate the charge, then the individual must be sent to trial with the House as his prosecutor, and the prejudice resulting from the weight of their authority against him. Looking, therefore, either to expedience or justice, he thought the plain and open course of judicial investigation was that which was due to the public, the House, and the individual immediately concerned.
Mr. Broughamsaid, that the chief objection urged against an inquiry at the bar of the House, was, the unfavourable effect which it might have on the future trial of the sheriff, if the House should think proper to direct a prosecution. But, was it not a little singular that the sheriff himself did not make such an objection; that, on the contrary, he should have petitioned for that very mode of inquiry? God forbid that justice should be violated in the person of any one—even in one of the Orange association! God forbid that, with the weight of the censure of that House hanging about his neck like a millstone, any man should be sent to take his trial! But, when the person himself came forward and entreated to be heard, was be to be told that he did not know his own case? This compromising government, however, had shut its ears against his

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petition. They had said that the general rule of the House was against inquiry, which was so troublesome a thing, that it would be better to rely on the attorney general and think no more of the grand inquest of the nation. He had not so read the constitution; nor would be consent to a doctrine which it was reserved for the third year of George the 4th to promulgate for the first time. Besides, it was to be remembered that the case of Mr. Wyndham Quin, which had been alluded to, was investigated by the House with success, and followed up by an enactment to prevent the repetition of the abuses there disclosed. And, what was the question that called for investigation now? Was it not an alarming matter, that there had been an attack on the purity of the administration of justice by the packing of a jury, and that that had been done by an officer of a corporation, and for the purpose of courting a party which was of great weight for its rank and wealth, and some of whom were even high in office? The administration of justice was said to have received a taint, through the misconduct of the sheriff of Dublin. And who made the charge? The first law officer of the Crown, in defence of himself, and to secure his own retreat. Was not this, then, he would ask, an extraordinary case, and coming strictly within the principle of the exception? He could not take the same view of the result of the inquiry a few nights ago into the conduct of the attorney-general for Ireland, which was taken by the right hon. gentleman who spoke last, though he acquitted him of any thing even bordering on a corrupt motive. The charges against him of unprecedented, unwise, and unconstitutional conduct, were of a sufficiently grave nature, and were felt so by the learned gentleman himself; but his friends, the government, applying to him the same over-measure of kindness which they now wanted to apply to the sheriff, and accusing him of bungling conduct in his own case, chose a line of their own, and said, "We won't convict you, for that would be dangerous to the peace of Ireland: but we can't acquit you, for that would be dangerous also; therefore, we will not give to innocence its just meed, but pass to the order of the day, because we will treat the attorney-general as we mean to treat the sheriff of Dublin on Tuesday next." This was what was called an ac-
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quittal of the learned gentleman; but whatever might be the view some gentlemen had taken of it, what really carried the House along with it was, the distinct and alarming charge of packing a jury. The acquittal (for, he would not quarrel about words) was due to that charge. Of all the alarming comments, on the filing of ex-officio informations, the intended proceeding by the attorney-general for Ireland with respect to the sheriff was the most alarming. He denied that an inquiry by trial would fulfil the object which they had in view. The issue would in that case be confined to the mere question, whether the party charged were guilty or not? The whole proceeding might fail from a trifling flaw; and there would be no opportunity of inquiring into the conduct of other parties, if the sheriff were shown to be not guilty. He knew of no tribunal half so effective for the purpose of sifting the truth, as an inquiry at the bar of that House, by an examination on the part of all the members, renewed day after day; an inquiry from which no equivocation could escape, no concealment could take shelter, and out of which the truth must in the end be elicited. The House had that night heard a lesson with regard to the state of Ireland, emanating from the long experience and great patriotism of his right hon. friend (sir J. Newport); not founded in violent or chimerical notions, but pregnant with the soundest political wisdom. His right hon. friend had declared it to be the curse of Ireland to be torn by factions, mobs, and associations; and to have nothing which could be fairly called a public. The Union, notwithstanding all the evils which had attended it, had at least brought to Ireland the chance of acquiring that inestimable blessing. Let it not be said, when Ireland complained of grievances, that the best way of allaying heats, of quelling dissention, and of diffusing satisfaction through the country, was, not to remedy those grievances. Let her voice be heard—let her wrongsberedressed—let her just demands be conceded, and they would hear no more of, turbulence and dissention with regard to Ireland.
The House divided: For sir Francis Burdett's motion 219. Against it 185. Majority 34. The committee of the whole House to consider of the said inquiry was ordered to set on Friday, and Mr. Sheriff Thorpe was ordered to attend.