Commons Sitting of 6 March 1822

MOTION RESPECTING HER LATE MAJESTY'S FUNERAL.
Mr. Bennetcommenced by saying, that, pursuant to notice, he rose for the purpose of bringing under the consideration of the House the circumstances attending the Funeral of her late majesty the Queen. In doing so, he did not think it necessary to make any apology. True it was, that when an individual so little qualified, either by his situation or abilities, undertook such a task, some apology might appear necessary; but, the importance of the subject, the deep interest which the people of this country took in it, and, above all, the honour and character of England which it involved, forced it upon him as a duty; and whatever various motives might be ascribed to him; he under this consciousness, fearlessly undertook it. Towards the latter end of the month of July last her majesty was seized with that illness, which, after some days of suffering, terminated her existence on the 7th of August. To him, it was matter of surprise, indeed, that she so long held out, under the accumulated wrongs and injuries which were heaped upon her; under the sort of persecution to which she had been exposed; but, above all, under that hope deferred which maketh the heart sick. Recollecting these circumstances,
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he repeated, that he for one was surprised she had not sooner sunk into the grave. But the force of mind—the fortitude of character—which she possessed, and that high spirit which belonged to her family, and no branch of which had it in a higher degree than herself, enabled her to contend so long, and with such a noble power of endurance, against multiplied calamities. During the whole of her illness, no decent respect was paid to her by the servants of the Crown. No inquiries were made respecting her health by any of his majesty's ministers; and he believed, that of all the branches of the royal family, his royal highness the duke of Sussex was the only one who took any notice of her existence. After several days of pain, her majesty's sufferings and her existence terminated. As soon as the melancholy event had taken place, notice was given to his majesty's government; and in an interview with one of them, one of the executors acquainted him with the will which her majesty had made, with all her testamentary bequests, and her last wishes. He (Mr. B.) held in his hand a copy of that will, of which there was only one part to which he felt it necessary to call the attention of the House. In that part her majesty desired that within three days after her decease her body might be conveyed to the tomb of her ancestors. The house, perhaps, would be anxious to learn the reason; which had induced her majesty to make such a request. It was not, he could state, that she wished to have the ceremony of her funeral hurried over, or that she did not wish her body should remain longer than three days in England—that country which had been her stem and stay in all her afflictions, and her great support in the height of adversity—no; another motive influenced her mind. At the time when a communication was made to her majesty by an honourable friend of his, who attended her, that her life was in danger, and that in all probability she could not survive long, she thanked him for the communication in her kind mariner; and with a simplicity and spirit which all who were acquainted with her knew her to possess, she replied, "I have no wish to live, and am not afraid to die." But to return to that part of the will in which her majesty desired to have her body conveyed to Brunswick within three, days. When told that it was not likely she could recover, her majesty said, "It

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is not likely that I shall die to clay, or perhaps to-morrow; but if I should survive three days, it will bring me to the anniversary of the day, on which I quitted England seven years ago"—that day which, she had too good reason to remember, when, contrary to the warning and advice of her best friends, she left this country. It was a very natural association, that she should fix upon the same clay which had been the source of all her subsequent calamities, as the one which might terminate all her earthly sufferings. As soon as his majesty's government had notice of the queen's death, they undertook to defray the expenses of her funeral. Lord Liverpool said that her request respecting the removal of her body should be complied with, and that the funeral should take place as soon as all convenient preparations could be made. His learned friend (Dr. Lushington), anxious to learn what preparations were to be made for the reception of her majesty's body at the other side of the water, was referred to a gentleman who might be considered the deputy of count Munster in this country; and the answer which he received was, that Stade was a very inconvenient route, and that there would be much difficulty in procuring horses and carriages for the progress of the procession. His learned friend, under these circumstances, found it would be impossible for the executors to carry on the funeral without knowing what arrangements were made for its reception, and particularly in a place where such inconveniences were likely to arise. Finding that government did not intend to grant any delay, the executors, with one accord, agreed to give up all management of the funeral, and leave it entirely in the hands of government. On Tuesday, August 14, the funeral left Brandenburgh house. He (Mr. B.) was present. He saw with his own eyes what passed, and heard the protest read by his learned friend against the removal of the body, because no fit preparations had been made. He (Mr. B.) complained first, that at Brandenburgh-house there was not that due solemnity which befitted the rank of the illustrious deceased. He had seen the funerals of many of the nobility of this country; and he would not say, that there was more splendor, for that perhaps was not a proper term to apply, but he would say that there were greater tokens of respect paid to the de-
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cease of any of them, than was shown by those who superintended the funeral of her majesty. The preparations were scantily and badly arranged, and it was not until the morning of the funeral that the hanging of part of the house with black was finished. It was, he believed, a privilege claimed by every member of the royal family, and always accorded, that the body should be borne to the hearse by the yeomen of the guard; and he believed that in no instance before that of her majesty was this ceremony omitted. But here were no yeomen in attendance to perform this rite: and her majesty's body was conveyed out of Brandenburgh-house on the shoulders of the undertaker's men. This might, perhaps, be considered a matter of no consequence. In the eye of the philosopher, certainly, it was none; but it was of consequence when taken as a proof of the neglect with which her majesty had been treated—when taken as a proof of the insults from which even her remains were not to escape—when taken as a proof of the determination to follow up the insults offered to her when living, by indignities to her body when dead. The funeral moved on from Brandenburgh-house, under the heaviest rain which he ever remembered; but, notwithstanding that it poured clown in torrents during the whole of the morning, crowds of persons lined the streets in every direction. In every place were to be seen numerous groups, not of what were usually termed mobs, but of the middling classes dressed in deep mourning, anxiously waiting to testify their respect for their departed Queen. Every house was filled and every avenue was thronged, with persons of this description. He spoke of what he saw until the funeral arrived at Cumberland gate; and he was certain that he should be borne out in his account by the statement of every person who witnessed the procession, that never was there any instance of a public funeral, where greater or more unfeigned marks of respect were paid to the deceased than were on this occasion by the thousands who attended. Indeed, he did not believe that the death of her majesty's lamented daughter and her child drew more tears than were shed on that day. After repeated stoppages and interruptions, which he would not now either excuse or condemn, the funeral arrived at Cumberland-gate. On what happened there it was not his purpose to

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observe. No doubt, scenes took place which all must regret; but of those scenes he would merely say, that whatever blood was shed, whatever calamities ensued, the fault was to be attributed to his majesty's ministers, whose arrangements had been throughout so ill-advised. From Cumberland-gate the funeral went on, many obstacles being opposed by the people in the by-ways and lanes through which ministers had thought fit it should pass. As it proceeded, its progress was marked with the same intensity of feeling, the same tokens of respect for the illustrious deceased, the same deep regret for her unmerited sufferings, which had been evinced at its outset. The inhabitants of the suburbs poured out in thousands, and a very great portion accompanied the procession for a considerable distance out of the city. At about eight o'clock it reached Romford, where it halted for some time. Soon after its arrival, there was a notice given by the parties who conducted it, that it would proceed that night on to Chelmsford. To this an objection was made by one of the executors, who represented, that no necessity existed for such haste; but it was replied that those who did not choose to accompany it that night might follow it in the morning. At half-past ten it left Romford, and arrived at Chelmsford at about half-past four on the following morning. Immediately on its arrival there, a notification was given, that it would set out again at seven; but though, as before, remonstrances were made against this haste, it was not until it was found that the horses were too jaded to proceed, that a further delay of a few hours was granted. At 11 o'clock it left Chelmsford, and arrived at Colchester at about 5. At first it was intended to go on to Harwich that night; but, after repeated remonstrances on the part of the executors, a letter was produced from lord Liverpool, in which it was stated, that the procession might occupy three days, but that the body should be on board on the third day; and therefore that a delay might take place for that night at Colchester. This letter, however, was not produced, until after it was ascertained that the state of the horses was such that they could not proceed without considerable delay. The body was after this conveyed to the church, where a scene took place which he would leave to others to describe. It should be recollected that it was a part of her ma-
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jesty's will that an inscription should be placed on her coffin. That inscription was, "Here lies Caroline of Brunswick, the injured Queen of England." A communication of this was of course made by one of the executors to lord Liverpool who objected to its being put on the coffin; but he believed he was not saying too much in stating, that lord Liverpool did not object to its being done by others. A plate with the inscription was prepared, but, owing to the carriage of the gentleman who had to take it to Brandenburgh-house having been delayed by the immense crowds through which he had to pass, he did not reach that place until after the funeral had left it. In consequence, the plate did not arrive at Colchester till a late hour on the evening of the 15th. It was then fixed on the coffin, and a scene ensued which he would leave to those who witnessed it to describe. He would only say, that the plate was taken off, and an interference of the soldiers followed, in no way creditable to the parties who directed it. Early on the morning of the 16th, the procession set off for Harwich, a distance of about 16 or 17 miles. He mentioned this to show that the distance did not require the haste at which it was made to advance. Indeed, the whole progress of the funeral might be considered as one which was going post. He should call it a funeral travelling post. Some parts of it were a mile asunder, and in no place was it accompanied by that solemnity which one would expect at the funeral of the poorest subject. The only solemnity witnessed on the occasion was on the part of the people who flocked from the neighbouring towns and country, in tens, and he might say hundreds of thousands, to pay their last tribute of respect to the memory of her whom they believed so deeply-injured. He spoke in the hearing of many gentlemen who witnessed the procession, and if he mis-stated any thing, he hoped it would be corrected. On the arrival of the procession at Harwich, without waiting for the coming up of the carriages, or giving the parties who had a right to attend time to get out, the body was dragged from the hearse, and being placed on men's shoulders, was hurried down to the place at which it was to be embarked. It was there lowered down into the boat, without a pall, without the crown, and without that ceremony which one might have expected on such an occasion. He be-

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lieved there was no instance of any person being sent out of this country for interment, where the same haste was observed. The coffin was placed in a boat, in which was sir George Nayler and his deputy, the undertaker and his deputy, but not a soul of those of' the suite who, it might have been supposed, ought to have accompanied it to the ship. The interment of the queen of England, he would call upon the House to observe, was then, as far as England was concerned, entirely at an end. There were no more rites, no more ceremonies, no more decency, than what he had described; and with those rites and ceremonies, such as they were, ended the control over the funeral exercised by the ministers of the king of England. On ship-board, no preparations had been made for the reception of the body. When the funeral arrived at Harwich, the attendants did not know whether they were to go abroad with it or not. The original plan was, that the body and the hearse, with one or two of the undertakers should be left to find their way to Brunswick, under the direction of an hon. and learned friend of his who did not understand the language, or know the people of the country through which it would be necessary for him to pass. That plan, was, however, abandoned by government, and the hearse was embarked with all its attendants. The vessel did not sail for Germany till the next day, and there was, therefore, no occasion for the hurry made to get her majesty's body on board; there was, therefore, no occasion to travel with it as if—he was almost ashamed to make the comparison—as if it had been a fish-cart; there was no occasion to inflict upon her memory such unprecedented contempt and indignity. The vessel, he repeated, did not sail for Germany till the next day, and did not arrive at Stade till three days afterwards.
He had now done with the government of the king of England, and was obliged to commence his observations upon the government of the king of Hanover. When the funeral arrived at Stade, no preparation had been made to receive it, and no bier had been constructed for the removal of the body. It was, however, carried on shore, and placed in the church on some trestles, that were provided by the zeal of the kind-hearted inhabitants of the town. The inhabitants—and he merely mentioned the fact to show the spirit of the
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proceeding, and the animus of those who directed it—the inhabitants joined with the municipality in asking permission to meet the funeral. They were refused permission. They applied for it a second time; they were again refused it. They applied for it a third time, and no answer was given to their application. The people of Stade felt like the people of England; and, though permission was not granted them to do so, paid every respect in their power to the memory of' her who had recently been their royal mistress. The battery saluted the corpse without orders; and well it was that it did so, for if it had waited for the orders which shortly afterwards arrived, no salute would have been fired. The next day the procession moved on; and throughout the whole country through which it passed was received, as he had been told, in a manner that proved that the people of all countries that were unseduced by bribes and temptation entertained a hatred against oppression, and a sympathy for the oppressed. He had been told that nothing could be more touching than their conduct; indeed, it was impossible for language to describe, or for man to conceive, the affectionate regard which all persons, and especially the women showed to the memory of her late majesty. Wherever the funeral went, it was preceded by women strewing flowers, and those women were the daughters of the principal inhabitants of the country. Through this group of people in mourning, the procession moved on to Brunswick; and there took place the ceremony—if ceremony he might call it—with which the queen of England was consigned to the vault of her noble and illustrious ancestors. The inhabitants of Brunswick on that occasion showed that they felt like the manly and gallant people of England. They were all—excepting the government of the Crown which threw every obstacle in the way of any public expression of sorrow—influenced by the same feeling. Would the House believe it, that even up to that very hour no funeral rites had been celebrated over the body of the Queen of England? In defence of so extraordinary an omission of respect, it was asserted, that it was not customary in Brunswick to celebrate funeral rites twice over the same corpse; and as a proof of the custom it was added, that when the body of her majesty's illustrious father was brought from the church of the

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obscure village near Jena, in which he had been buried after the battle there, to be re-buried at Brunswick, no ceremonies had been performed over it. But even allowing such to have been the fact in that instance, how did it apply to the case of her late majesty? He would leave the House to judge, when he stated that the funeral ceremonies had been once performed over the late duke of Brunswick before he was placed in the family vault, but never at all over the late Queen of England. If they were to be told that such ceremonies were mere idle prejudices—if the Hanoverian government had been visited by the new lights which first dawned upon the world at the commencement of the French revolution, and was convinced that death was nothing but an eternal sleep, and that no honours ought to be paid to the deceased—if such, he said, were the philosophy of the Hanoverian government, he would merely reply to it by stating, that it was not the philosophy of the human heart, which received consolation from the performance of such ceremonies, even though it knew that they conferred no honour or benefit on the dead. The Queen of England was now laid by the side of her gallant father and brother, both of whom had fallen victims to the cruel tyranny of Buonaparte; but he much doubted whether that tyranny, cruel as it was, could produce an example of oppression more black and damning than that under which her late majesty had at length fallen. Though no religious ceremony had been performed over her body, there was not a country in the world—he cared not what language its inhabitants spoke, or in what form they offered up their prayer to the Deity—in which the name of the Queen of England was not uttered by all who prayed for mercy against oppression—in which all who had heard of her sufferings, did not pray that her fate might not be their fate, that her lot might not be their lot. In what he had said, he had perhaps expressed himself warmly; but he felt warmly upon the subject, and should feel so as long as he lived.
Before he concluded with the motion which he intended that evening to submit to the House, he could not help coming back to England, and pointing out the conduct which government had pursued in another respect upon this occasion. Ministers must have been aware of the strong interest which the people of Eng-
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land had always taken in the fate of her late majesty. They must have known, or if they did not know, they ought to have known, the anxiety with which every person in England had watched the progress of the fatal disorder of which she died; they must have known, that from the moment of her decease, there were no persons in the middle, and but few persons in the higher classes of society that were not desirous of exhibiting their respect to her memory as she was conveyed to the tomb. One would have expected that, under such circumstanses, the government would have been careful to pursue such a line of conduct as could shock no man's prejudices—as could wound no man's feelings. The experience of the past ought to have taught them the expediency of conciliating the feelings of the public, where they knew that it would be impossible to prevent a display of those feelings. They had full notice of what the feelings of the country were; they had received no less a warning voice than that of the lord mayor, aldermen and common council of the city of London—a body which it was usual in that House to treat with the utmost contempt, except when it sided with the views of his majesty's ministers. Now he, who had been accustomed to look upon it with respect, even when he most condemned its conduct, thought that his majesty's ministers ought to have paid some attention to the opinions which it had expressed, especially as those opinions were held by all the people of England, who had not received from government money, or money's-worth. The corporation of London had, a few days before the Queen's funeral come to a resolution, which he would read to the House. It was as follows: "Resolved unanimously, that this court feels it a melancholy and irresistible duty to express its deepest concern and affliction at the premature and ever-to-be-lamented death of her most gracious majesty Queen Caroline. The eminent virtues she possessed—the amiable and unaffected condescension of her manners—the habitual kindness and benevolence of her disposition, and the vigour and intelligence of mind she displayed on the most trying occasions—her regard for the rights and privileges of the people, and the warmth of affection she evinced for the British nation, would of themselves have called for expressions of gratitude to her memory, and sorrow for her loss. But when

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this court calls to mind the painful and distressing vicissitudes of her eventful life, from the period she first landed in this country, under the most flattering and auspicious circumstances, and contemplates the domestic afflictions and the series of persecutions which, in unrelenting succession, she has undergone, it cannot but record its highest admiration of the temper, the unshaken firmness and magnanimity with which she met and defeated, if not destroyed, the malice of her persecutors; and that to the last moment of her existence she displayed the same fortitude with Christian resignation, forgiving all her enemies; and when under the weight of her complicated wrongs and sufferings, sinking into the arms of Death, she hailed him as a friend, in the hope of exchanging those scenes of sorrow and trouble for a crown of glory and immortality." That resolution was followed by another, which he should also read to the House—"Resolved unanimously that this court is anxious to do honour to the remains of her late majesty Queen Caroline, and in the event of the royal corpse passing through the city, they feel it their duty to attend the funeral procession at Temple-bar, and through the city."
He thought that these resolutions might have informed his majesty's government of the nature of the feelings of the inhabitants of the metropolis; and he further thought that it might have been permitted to the corporation of the metropolitan city, to take a part in her majesty's funeral procession. If there had been any thing in his majesty's ministers—he would not say like wisdom, but like that common sense which was necessary to administer the lowest and meanest affairs—they must have seen that the only course to be pursued with safety was to conciliate the feelings of the people by acceding to their earnest wishes and solicitations. By what fatal infatuation they had determined to drag her majesty's body through all the by-ways and by-lanes of the town, through all its obscure paths and tortuous roads, in order to prevent the people of England from showing their respect to her memory, the country would, perhaps, be informed in the course of the evening. The noble marquis, upon a former occasion, had insinuated that the Queen had requested privacy to be observed in her funeral. Now, he had read her will with consider-
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able care, but could not find a single word in it to that effect. He had inquired of those who were with her in her last moments if she had expressed such a wish, and they told him that she had done no such thing. It was also said, that she had desired her body to be removed within three days from her death. Upon that point he had already explained himself to the House, and would, therefore, say no more upon it at present, except that he believed that ministers were the only men in the country who would have come to the conclusion that they had done upon it. Upon their heads, therefore, rested all the responsibility of all the evil counsel, all the mischievous advice, and all the fearful consultations which had taken place, provoking and irritating the people to a breach of the law, which ended in the death of two individuals. The country was indebted to other individuals than the members of the government that more blood had not been shed. If there had been at the head of that procession persons as wrong-headed in action as others had been in counsel, a great sacrifice of human life must have taken place, which might have led to the most fatal results. What might have been the issue of them God alone knew; but of this he was sure, that the blood which was then shed would have been too clearly purchased if it had been the price of deciding whether the Queen should receive from the inhabitants of the metropolis those honours which they had always paid her during her life, and which they were anxious to pay her even when she was no more. At this stage of his speech, he could not help looking back to the period—and he was old enough to remember it—when the late Queen of England came to its shores, full of hope, and life, and joy. Beautiful he thought she was in person, amiable he knew her to have been in manners; and yet, within one short year, without any fault being even alleged against her, she was turned with her child from the house of her husband; and from that time there was not one suffering, which, in the visitation of calamity could befal mankind, that had not been heaped unsparingly upon her head. He spoke not merely of those calamities with which the All-powerful Disposer of events sometimes inflicted, in his wisdom, upon us all; but of those calamities which the wickedness and treachery of mankind had repeatedly brought upon her. She

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was taken up—and he had no doubt that the observations he was going to make would be received with cheers from the other side, but they touched him not—she was taken up as a party tool, and was alternately caressed and betrayed. When they could no longer use her to their advantage, the different factions, who had for a temporary purpose attached themselves to her, forsook her, and one of them had absolutely seduced her into that course which ultimately betrayed her to ruin. He would not go back to those disgusting scenes to which the people of England—to their everlasting honour be it mentioned—had put a stop by that hatred to oppression, and that manliness of feeling which they then displayed in so powerful and unequivocal a manner. Those measures would descend to future ages, a lasting record of the infamy of all engaged in bringing them forward, and would form a dark page in the annals of the historian who should review them, when all party-feeling should be at rest, and the paltry interests of the present moment buried in oblivion. But, whilst they fixed an indelible stigma on the conduct of those who originated them, they would form a proud source of triumph to those noble personages, who, in another place, had stood forward in behalf of themselves, and the constitution, and that gallant people who were never known to forsake the oppressed in their time of need, and who stood by her late majesty to the last hour of her existence.—I do not know (continued Mr. Bennet), or rather I do know, what will be the fate of my motion. I know it, by the fate of every other motion which has yet been made, regarding that ill-treated but high-minded lady; but I should be ashamed of myself, as a member of parliament—I should be ashamed of myself as an English gentleman—if I were on that account to refrain from giving vent to the feelings which actuate me on the subject. I have given vent to them, and I trust that I have done so decently and decorously. I have spoken out on the subject, because the subject required it of me, and because I was anxious to put upon record the sentiments which I felt on a question, which, whether I look to the past or to the future, I conceive to be of infinite importance to the peace and character of this nation. I now move, "That the respect and solemnity which by ancient custom have been observed at the funerals of the Queens of
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England, have been, at the funeral of her late Majesty Queen Caroline, unnecessarily and indecorously violated."
Mr. John Calvertsaid, he was present at the embarkation of the body of her late majesty at Harwich. He saw the coffin lowered into the boat in the most solemn manner. The naval officers and men who attended behaved with the utmost decorum; and every thing had been provided by the admiralty, that could insure a respectful attention to the remains of her late majesty. The guns had been fired both at Harwich and at Stade. On the arrival of the body at Zell, it was carried to the church, which was fitted up with black for the occasion. Throughout the whole of the journey the utmost respect and solemnity were observed. The Hanoverian government must have made great exertions to provide for the progress of so large a procession, in which there were sixty horses to be changed at every stage.
Sir G. Cockburnwished to say a few words on what had fallen from the hon. mover, with respect to the conduct of the navy at Harwich, which that hon. member had characterized as deficient in respect.
Mr. Bennetobserved, that so far from accusing the navy of disrespectful conduct, his meaning was directly the reverse. He wished to state distinctly, that the navy had conducted themselves on that occasion with the greatest feeling and propriety. What he complained of was, that no boats were ready at the jetty to convey her majesty's attendants on board at the time that the body was embarked.
Sir G. Cockburnsaid, he was happy to hear the explanation given by the hon. gentleman, although he could not admit the accuracy even of that explanation. He was not present himself, but he had it from a very excellent officer, captain White, who was there, that he ordered all the persons to be taken on board whom the executors pointed out to him for that purpose. He called on an hon. and gallant friend of his opposite to state how the navy had behaved on that occasion. A learned gentleman opposite had told him that nothing had ever been better done. He would appeal to that learned gentleman, whether the Admiralty did not express their disposition to give him a vessel of any description of force he chose, for the purpose of conveying the body of her late majesty to Cuxhaven? They had re-

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commended a small frigate, as better calculated to go up the river; but the learned gentleman had chosen to have a large frigate, as conceiving that it would be more respectful. In consequence a large frigate was immediately ordered round by the Admiralty from Portsmouth. Orders had been given to fire the guns, and to do every thing else that was proper. Under those circumstances he confessed that he was not prepared to hear any accusation of a want of due attention.
Colonel Gosselunderstood, that the hon. member for Shrewsbury found fault with the way in which the coffin was lowered into the boat. If any one was to blame on that occasion, it was himself. He had I consulted with captain Doyle as to the best and safest method of conveying the body on board. At the beach the water was shallow, and the coffin could not be carried to the boat. Both captain Doyle and himself agreed that the best way was to lower the coffin into the boat by the crane at the ordnance jetty. The next question was by whom it should be lowered? Several officers were appointed for that purpose, but they were so unaccustomed to the use of the crane, that it was thought expedient to employ four men who were so used to the work. Captain White tendered his assistance to carry all these dispositions into effect. There was abundance of room in the boat into which the coffin was lowered; and he confessed that he felt surprised that none of her late majesty's attendants accompanied the body. When the procession approached Harwich he went out to meet it, and riding up to the carriage in which was sir G. Nayler, advised him to take the body at once to the jetty, for that the tide would not serve above three or four hours longer, and, therefore, if the body was not embarked then, it must be embarked at night, or wait four and twenty hours. Sir G. Nayler and his attendants wanted rest. He (col. G.) had offered his dining room for the reception of the body. The church was not in a state to receive it. The mayor offered the Town Hall, but on examining the stairs, there appeared to be a sudden turn which would render it difficult to carry the coffin up. The question, therefore, was, if it became necessary for the body to remain all night ashore; whether it should remain at the Three Cups-inn, or at his house? He could assure the House upon his honour, that he had the windows taken out of his
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dining-room to prepare for the reception of the coffin.
Mr. Humesaid, he had witnessed the whole of the ceremony, and must do the navy the justice to say, that he never witnessed more creditable and honourable conduct than that of captain White and the sailors. Both officers and men, while the body was lowering into the boat, showed every mark of respect and feeling. When the coffin was lowered into the boat, the crown and cushion were immediately handed into the boat, accompanied by sir G. Nayler, who placed himself at the head of the coffin. But that of which his hon. friend complained, was, the disgraceful neglect in not providing the means of embarking the attendants on her majesty's funeral. Lord Hood, as chief mourner, had asked what conveyance there was for carrying him on board? There were no boats. Lord Hood then asked, how he could return, if he went to Cuxhaven? Captain White replied, that he had no instructions, but that he would take it upon himself to say, that his frigate, the Tyne, should attend for the purpose of conveying any part of her majesty's household back from the opposite shore. The gentlemen of her majesty's household, were, however, left on the quay; and it was for some time doubtful whether any conveyance on board was to be afforded them. He appealed to an hon. member opposite, whether considerable indecision had not been manifested, until a letter arrived from the Admiralty which, that hon. member said, contained the necessary orders? He was surprised that the gallant officer should have said there appeared any unwillingness on the part of the mourners attending the funeral, to go into the boat in which the body was placed. The fact was, that the persons who attended were ready and anxious to attend the coffin, but no attempt had been made to provide boats to take them off; indeed, so little was known upon the subject, that it was for some time a question with the mourners whether they were to proceed in the king's ship or take the packet. But this was a small part of the complaint made by the hon. member for Shrewsbury. Before, however, he quitted this part of the question, he felt it necessary to do justice to the conduct of the gallant officer (colonel Gossett). While the funeral remained at Harwich, that gallant member had used his utmost endeavours to pay the remains of her ma-

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jesty all due respect. Would to God that be had been appointed to join the procession in the first instance! Had that been the case, the country would not have witnessed those disgraceful scenes which unhappily took place. Having said thus much, he intreated the attention of the House to the main facts of the question. He would first state how the remains of her majesty had been treated on the other side of the water. On its landing, eight majors were appointed to remove the coffin, and the people insisted on having her body removed from the ordinary hearse. It was placed in a carriage brought for the purpose, and that carriage was drawn by a number of respectable burghers; in a word, every possible mark of respect was shown to the remains of her majesty. This was the conduct pursued by the Germans; and he had no hesitation in saying, that the people of England would have shown the same respect, were it not for the interference of his majesty's ministers. The complaint of his hon. friend was mainly against the manner of this interference. He complained of the shameless and indecent haste with which the proceedings were pressed on. So great had been that haste, that persons wishing to attend the funeral were allowed but a few hours to prepare themselves for the journey. This was the main ground of complaint. It had been said, that the respect usually paid to crowned heads had been paid to her majesty; and much stress was laid upon Brandenburgh-house having been hung with black. But all those who had witnessed what took place at that house, must have felt that the whole was a mockery. In the first instance, it had been determined to remove the body on Monday, and it was not until it was shown that lord Hood's horses had not come up, and that it would be impossible to complete the other necessary arrangements in time, that this idea was abandoned. It was this indecent haste that was complained of. And then as to the black cloth which was spoken of, it was not entirely put up until Tuesday morning; it was put up, not out of respect to her majesty, but in order to expend the cloth and other materials for the benefit of the individuals concerned. It could not have been put up out of respect to the Queen, as no one individual of the public was allowed to go in to witness the funeral ceremonies.—He now came to another serious charge against
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ministers. Why was not the funeral allowed to go through the city? Why were orders issued to have it taken through bye and crooked ways? The immemorial usage was, to take funerals along the highways; so much so, indeed, that he believed a private path through which a funeral passed became thenceforward a public way. Why was it that ministers kept the public, up to the last moment, in ignorance of the route which the funeral was to take? It was this which had brought such an accumulated mass of people to the west end of the metropolis on that day. Had the people been made acquainted with the line which the funeral would take, they would have waited quietly at their different stations until it passed. The reasons by which ministers were actuated in doing this, they were now called upon to explain to the House. They had to explain, too, why, after having refused her majesty a guard of honour in her life time, they sent one, as if in mockery, to attend her funeral; and, having done this, they wished to have the body taken a bye and tortuous course, well knowing that the people would not suffer her remains to be treated with indignity. He hoped the noble marquis opposite had had some conversation with that respectable magistrate, sir R. Baker, who had charge of her majesty's funeral; If so he must have been informed that the conduct of the people was every thing that could have been wished for on that day. The only complaint made was of the attempt to turn the funeral out of the direct and public road. The worthy magistrate, in the exercise of a sound discretion, had taken upon himself to alter the intended route, and take the funeral by the direct and open road. Had the worthy magistrate adopted this course a little earlier, he would have prevented much riot, disorder, and bloodshed. For his firmness, his mildness, and humanity, on that melancholy occasion, he deserved—not the reward he had received—but the thanks of the House and the country. He had never before been particularly partial to sir R. Baker; but he could not withhold his praise of the coolness, the temper, and moderation, with which the worthy magistrate acted on that day.—The funeral having been turned into the park, brought him to a point in which ho viewed the conduct of ministers as culpable in the highest degree. They gave the officers orders to take the funeral that

941
way (he presumed they must have given such orders, or surely the officers would not have acted as they did); and this led to a scene the most disgraceful of any that had ever come within his observation. He was himself present, and he saw with regret that those soldiers who had been sent out in aid, and under the control of the civil power, had acted entirely without orders; that they had not only not prevented, but had actually committed a breach of the peace. He found too, that the officers had given the soldiers no orders to fire. Was this the way in which our troops were disciplined? When he was in the field, he had always seen the men under the strict command of their officers. What was the case here? It appeared that the officers were at the head of their troops, and yet those troops used their swords and pistols against the people, without having received any orders so to do. How could he call those disciplined troops? He could consider them in no other light than as a lawless band, with arms in their hands, rushing furiously to attack those subjects whom it was their duty to protect. In doing this, they had been guilty of murder and manslaughter. He was most willing to admit that the soldiers had been placed in a situation of much difficulty on the 14th of August. He repeated that the soldiers had been so placed, but how often did it occur that soldiers were placed in situations which exposed them to a galling fire without being allowed to return a single shot without the orders of their officers? And when soldiers so placed disobeyed that order, they were considered as any thing but disciplined troops. He was willing to admit that stones had been thrown at the soldiers; though he could assure the House, as well from his own observation, as from what had reached him on the subject, that the soldiers were the first aggressors. The soldiers began with using their swords against the people, who in return attacked them with stones, and then the soldiers fired among the crowd. Then it was that the fatal occurrences which gave rise to a subsequent inquiry took place. The funeral having been turned into Tottenham Court-road, a party of infantry were seen advancing rapidly to assist the civil power in forcing the procession back to its originally destined route; but Sir R. Baker, much to his credit, declined availing himself of their assistance, and the funeral proceeded.
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Had those soldiers arrived ten minutes sooner, a most lamentable scene would, in all probability, have taken place; and all this for the purpose of carrying a point of inconsiderable consequence. The people who attended the funeral of her majesty, were not what some honourable members would call the lower and illiterate classes of society, they were persons of all ranks, who crowded to pay this last tribute of respect to her memory. He was sure that ministers did not consult either their own characters or the welfare of the country, in their proceedings upon that unhappy day.—The hon. member proceeded to complain, that the ordinary forms of decency had not been observed at the funeral, as the procession had scarcely reached Whitechapel when every ornament was removed, the usual foot attendants were withdrawn, and, after the first stage, the funeral was not to be distinguished (except by the attendance of the military) from that of a person in ordinary life. The House had all these circumstances before them. They had also in their recollection the fact of a verdict of wilful murder having been found, not against any person or persons unknown, but against the soldiers and officers who did duty at Cumberland-gate. What was it that the people of England expected in such a case? They expected, and had they not a right to expect, that government would deal out justice equally to all parties? If one soldier had been deprived of life on the 14th of August, and a coroner's jury had declared any ten or twelve of the people guilty of that murder, would not ministers have taken the necessary steps to bring the accused to trial? This was his complaint. Notwithstanding the verdict of a coroner's jury, no steps had been taken to ascertain the guilt or innocence of the accused. He did not mean to say that the Coroner's verdict was conclusive of the guilt of the parties, but he did maintain that it was sufficient to put them upon their trial. Sure he was, that ministers would best consult their own characters, and the feelings of the country, by instituting an inquiry. But, instead of doing this, they took every step within their power to throw obstacles in the way of the only measure which had been taken to attain justice. He hoped the gallant officer who, on a former occasion, threw aspersions upon the coroner's inquest was now in the House. If so, he (Mr. H.)

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could assure him, that there never had been a more respectable, or a more fairly constituted jury. The failure of the inquiries made by the secretary of state, in order to discover if any unfair means had been used to call that jury together, was the best answer which could be given to the aspersions thrown out by the gallant officer. The memory of the Queen had been treated with disrespect—the civil institutions of the country had been despised—it was proved in one instance that murder, and in another that manslaughter had been committed—it was admitted that blood had been shed; and yet ministers screened the accused, solely because those accused were the soldiery. Under these circumstances, he felt himself bound to support the motion of his hon. friend.
General Gascoynesaid, he had attended most watchfully to all which had been said with respect to her majesty's funeral, in order to ascertain whether the charges were made out. The hon. member for Aberdeen had attended at Brandenhurgh-house, no doubt with all that solemnity and sorrow which the great loss he had sustained was likely to call forth; and yet the hon. member could not check his habitual thirst for economy and retrenchment, for he had scarcely entered the house of mourning, when be complained of the extravagant expenditure incurred by putting up so much superfine black cloth. The hon. member had next complained of the conduct of the military, and he had condemned their want of discipline for having acted without orders, and in the next sentence he contradicted himself and justified the military; "for," said he, "I admit that the soldiers were in a situation of difficulty; I admit that it was a hard case." Really! The hon. member did then think it a little hard that men with arms in their hands should be pelted and knocked from their horses without making any effort to defend themselves. Did the hon. member mean to contend, that because a man put on a red coat he was to be deprived of all right of defending himself? Did he mean to contend, that when the military were called out to preserve the peace, they were only to form a part of the shew and pageantry? Perhaps, the hon. member would rather that no military escort should have been sent to attend the funeral of the Queen. But had ministers acted in that way, then the cry would have been, that they had
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degraded and insulted the memory of the king's consort, in not having sent the usual guard of honour. He was confident, that whatever might be the views of the honourable member upon the subject, there was but one opinion entertained in the country, namely, that there never was a more gross or disgraceful outrage than that committed by the populace on that day, in dragging about the body of that Queen who, in her life-time, had been made the tool of party and of faction.—Having risen in consequence of expressions which had dropt from the hon. member for Aberdeen, he must complain of that hon. member's allusion to him in his absence last night. He (general G.) would now express the regret he felt for having used a phrase on a former night, which appeared to have given offence to the hon. member. It fell from him in the heat of debate, and he regretted having used it. But what had the hon. member said, not in the heat of debate, but after a night's sleep over the words?—
Mr. Denmanrose to order. He was sure the House had heard with satisfaction the gallant general express his regret for a phrase he had used on a former night; but he was now referring to what had taken place on a former night, which was disorderly.
The Speakersaid, the House would feel the difficulties he should have to encounter if he were called upon when any deviation from strict order took place, to interpose. It was most certainly irregular to refer to a former debate; but as he had not interfered in the allusion of one hon. member, which was irregular when it was made, he was at a loss to see how he could now interfere to prevent another hon. member, who conceived himself alluded to in his absence, from giving that explanation respecting himself, which he deemed relevant.
General Gascoynesaid, that he had freely confessed his regret for the personal allusion into which he had been betrayed, on a former night, in the heat of debate. The hon. member had last night assumed something respecting the manner in which he (general G.) had acquired his present military rank. To that allusion he should only reply, that he had obtained his present rank by forty years of service, extending when and where it was required, or wherever he had the honour of a command, sometimes by loss of blood, and often with fatigue and danger.
Mr. Peelsaid, he must premise, that he had no personal knowledge of any of the circumstances involved in this debate; but, after the most careful attention he was capable a bestowing upon the documents to which he had referred in his office, his conscientious conclusion was, that throughout the arrangements for her late majesty's funeral, the responsible persons connected with government were entirely actuated by a desire to pay all proper respect to the high rank of the deceased. He wished to take this opportunity of recording his entire acquiescence in every proceeding upon that occasion, and his complete conviction, that no other course could have been pursued with equal propriety. He approached the discussion with the intention of doing that which seemed to be in conformity with the wishes of the House, namely, to avoid every topic that could create irritation, He would, therefore, leave unnoticed some things that had fallen from hon. gentlemen on, the other side. Upon those points he had already had an opportunity of expressing his opinion, and he did not wish to revive the topics, and to bring them again into discussion. The real question was embodied in the resolution of the hon. mover, and it was this:—whether it was fit for the House to mark its censure of government, by declaring that there was a want of due respect in the proceedings that took place after the demise of her late majesty. For himself, he was willing to rest the decision upon the speeches of the hon. members for Shrewsbury and Aberdeen, comparing the impression which those speeches' had made with the effect produced by the addresses of the lord of the admiralty, of the hon. officer who conducted the military arrangements, and of the hon. gentleman connected with the department of the lord chamberlain. He appealed confidently to the House, whether those three honourable gentlemen had not afforded conclusive proofs as to the animus by which the proceedings were governed; for it was impossible to draw from their statements any other inference, than that it had been the intention of government to regulate the whole funeral with every regard to the decorum due to an occasion so melancholy. If an accidental circumstance had occurred; if, as the hon. member for Aberdeen had contended, there was some defect in detail; if some strap had been broken, or some boat had been
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absent that ought to have been in waiting; would the House, from such a paltry deficiency, such an insignificant trifle, draw at conclusion adverse to all that had been said on the most unquestionable authority? As to what had fallen from the hon. member for Aberdeen, it had only produced a conviction in his mind, that whatever course ministers had adopted, the hon. gentleman would have been prepared to find fault with it. From those very circumstances that testified respect, the hon. member would have argued that it had been wholly disregarded. To one point the gallant general had very properly adverted. Was it possible that the hon. member, a professed mourner for the Queen, when be recollected the preparations that were made for hanging the apartments with black cloth, should have made an objection to them which it would have been thought could never have entered into the mind of any man except a tailor? Could any man believe that the wrath of the hon. gentleman was directed against the profligate expenditure in cloth employed upon that occasion? This evinced, beyond refutation, the disposition to find fault with ministers, whether right or wrong. Remarkable as the hon. gentleman was for economy, the economy of justice and of common candour in such an objection was to the full as remarkable. Next, the same hon. gentleman had complained, that the military escort was a mockery of her majesty; and yet, with singular inconsistency he had turned round and objected, that that mockery had been continued no further than White-chapel. The speeches of the three hon. gents. to whom he had already referred with so much satisfaction, must have established this fact, that, at least on the part of the admiralty, there was no want of respect in the preparations. The hon. member for Shrewsbury had admitted that the embarkation had been properly conducted. With respect to what occurred after the embarkation, even the hon. member for Montrose had allowed that if an hon. officer behind him, had been present there would have been no ground of complaint. On the conduct of the military he might refer the house, without hesitation, to the speech of the hon. colonel as distinctly and undeniably showing, that in that quarter no want of respect had been evinced. The question was thus considerably narrowed. He would

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follow the hon. mover through some of the points to which he had adverted, and he trusted that the explanations he should supply would be satisfactory. Her majesty died on Tuesday, the 7th of August, and a communication was immediately made to the executors, that government would bear the expenses of her interment. Her majesty had left a will, in which she expressed a strong desire, that within three days after her death, her body should be removed to Brunswick, and there buried. Whether her majesty had or had not good reasons for this request, he appealed to the House whether ministers were not bound to consult the recorded opinion of her majesty? It was the duty of government, as far as possible, to carry into effect the wishes of the Queen. He conceived also that this very fact—that the interval of three days only was allowed—conclusively spewed, that it was the wish of her majesty that her funeral should be as private as was consistent with her rank. He was fully authorised in saying, that it was the decided impression of government, that such was the wish of her majesty, because no time was lost in giving preparations on this side of the water, and also at Brunswick. The removal of the body did not take place until Tuesday, the 14th of August; and this delay beyond the three days prescribed was evidence that there was no indecent haste. The hon. member complained, that the usual mark of respect was not shown, the corpse not having been removed by yeomen of the guard. This was the first distinct and specific fact pointed out as evincing disrespect. Upon this point and upon every other, he might be permitted to observe, that it was intended that the funeral of the Queen should be conducted in the same way as the funerals of any other member of the royal family. The same ceremonies had been observed on the deaths of the duke of Kent, and of the duchess of York; the same orders had been given, the same military escort provided; the guns had been fired, and the flags hoisted half-mast high. He had made inquiry into the subject, and he was informed, on the first authority, that in the two instances to which he had referred, the bodies were not removed by the yeomen of the guard in this instance, therefore, there had been no failure of respect. The procession left Brandenburgh-house on the morning of the 14th of August. Government had,
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as he had mentioned, communicated their intention to take charge of the funeral and to pay the expenses attending it, and no objection had been stated to it. It was needless to remind the House of the circumstances that delayed the funeral on the first day of its journey. He would only say, that the annals of the world did not present a more disgraceful outrage. If such a scene had occurred in another country—if, on the funeral of the queen consort of any other kingdom, these insults had been offered, because the king had ordered the procession to take a certain course, and if it was actually diverted from its prescribed line, would not any dispassionate observer have deemed that the reign of anarchy in the country thus disgraced was complete? Application had been distinctly made, that the corpse should pass through the city, and that application was as distinctly refused and notified. Yet the people (or the rabble, miscalled the people) had made an assault upon the procession, had attacked the military, and had committed one of the grossest violations of the law. It was most absurd to contend that government, who had merely supported the laws of the land, were responsible for what had occurred on the 14th August. Those who resisted the law were alone answerable. The law must be asserted, and the penalty ought to fall upon those who obstructed its course. He hoped it would not be supposed that he was insensible of the loss of life sustained on that unhappy occasion, or that he treated it lightly. He had spoken as he had done, because he was a real friend of humanity. That ministers had no alternative but steadily and fearlessly to enforce the execution of the law; and, though he did not find fault with the intentions of the public officer employed to enforce it, he most cordially concurred with those who had held that he ought to be removed from his situation. With regard to the indecent haste which it was said attended the embarkation, he agreed that there was some apparent haste in this proceeding; but, let it be recollected that it was at first proposed that two days only should be occupied in the journey to Harwich, whereas three were consumed, and it was not until the afternoon of the third, that the royal corpse was put on board the ship prepared to receive it As to what had occurred at Colchester, the executors had resigned to the lord chamberlain the charge of conducting

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the whole funeral, and, while the body lay in the church, an attempt was made to place upon the coffin this inscription, "To the memory of the injured queen of England." Was it possible for the officers of his majesty to allow such words to remain? Had the executors undertaken the duty of managing the funeral, there might have been some room for discussion on this point; but as it was, was it to be endured that an inscription should remain, recording a condemnation of the king's government? Here he must again say, that if an outrage of decorum had been committed, those who attempted to affix, not who resisted the affixing of the inscription, were responsible. The only remaining point was the omission of the funeral service at Brunswick. He had made many inquiries, and had been distinctly informed, that the same ceremony had been observed that attended the interment of other royal personages in Brunswick. In point of fact, whatever was prescribed by the custom of the country was performed, and we were not to judge of other services by our own. The hon. gentleman had himself admitted, that the ceremony was the same on the death of the duke of Brunswick; and, if other members of the same family were buried under similar circumstances, it could hardly be said that there existed any ground of complaint. He had endeavoured to conform to the wish of the House, by confining himself to the topics urged on the other side. He had not travelled beyond the limits he had at first prescribed to himself; and he trusted that the House, by negativing the motion, would come to the conclusion, that government had been influenced by no other desire than to accomplish the wishes of her majesty, having conducted the whole proceeding with all due decency, decorum, and solemnity.
Dr. Lushingtonassured the house, that he felt the deepest regret at being compelled to rise to address it upon the present occasion. Could his own inclinations have been consulted, this subject would not have been brought under its consideration. It became, however, his bounden duty, as the question had been introduced, to make some remarks upon what had fallen from one side and from the other, and he would endeavour to follow the example of the right hon. gentleman in abstaining from touching upon topics likely to excite irritation. It had
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been his misfortune, in the course of all these transactions, to have incurred blame on both sides. He had been censured by those attached to government, for the line of conduct he had pursued, and by such as were more particularly denominated the Queen's friends he had been charged with not having done enough to support and enforce the observance of due solemnities. He had had a difficult course to pursue. He had been placed in circumstances of a very peculiar nature and from the first he had been anxious only to do his duty. He had determined not to take advantage of the situation in which her majesty had placed him to divert the solemnities of the funeral, or any of the circumstances connected with it, to party purposes. Having been placed by her majesty's will in the responsible office he held, he could not entertain for a moment the idea of again raising through the country that flame which had so lately subdued. The House would excuse him if he entered into some details of what did and what did not occur. After the death of her majesty he had been occupied during the whole night in making necessary arrangements, and in putting the Queen's property and papers in a state of security. Next morning at about 12 o'clock, he had had the honour of an interview with the first lord of the Treasury; and he should be ashamed of himself, if he did not state what sassed rather against than in favour of himself: if he knew his own heart, to give a false or even an exaggerated account was directly in opposition to his feelings. The first words of the earl of Liverpool (for he had made a minute of them) were these—"I have no hesitation in informing you, that it is the intention of government to bear the expences of he Queen's funeral." That was all that passed upon that subject, and so ignorant vas he (Dr. L,) upon the matter at the time, that he did not know whether the course stated was or was not customary; he had never once thought from what quarter the money for the expences was to come. The question he had put more particularly to the noble lord was, what facilities government would afford that he corpse might be buried according to the manner expressed in the will? At his period the earl of Liverpool had desired him to wait upon the first lord of he Admiralty, who would make arrangements for the conveyance of the body

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from this country. Accordingly, he had I had an interview with lord Melville and the hon. admiral opposite (sir G. Cock-burn), and he had no hesitation in saying, that he received from them every possible information, facility, and accomodation; nay, he had received more, and he was glad to declare it, he had received from lord Melville an act of kindness, for he personally recommended him to the civilities of captain Doyle. In the evening he found that an intention had been expressed of removing the body of the Queen on Saturday; but that was found impracticable, and Monday was the day selected. The motives for this arrangement were stated to be two:—first, that it was as nearly as possible complying with the direction of the Queen; and secondly, that his majesty was waiting in Ireland, that great expectation was excited there, and that great inconvenience might arise if the body were not removed from the country with all expedition. The earl of Liverpool had stated further, that, under all the circumstances, it might be considered that putting the body on board the vessel was equivalent to an interment. He wished the embarkation thereof to take place on Wednesday, or at latest on Thursday, that his majesty might make his entrance into Dublin. He (Dr. L.) should be sorry if it met with the disapprobation of those with whom he usually acted, when he declared that he immediately answered lord Liverpool, that he saw reason in what his lordship stated, and that so far as was consistent with decorum and propriety, he was prepared to second the wishes of his lordship. It was a mere mockery, and worse than a mockery, after all that had passed, to pretend that the royal personage in Ireland was overwhelmed with grief on the death of the Queen: public decency was all that could be consulted and expected. Lord Liverpool mentioned as an objection, that some of the household would not be prepared in time with dresses considered requisite; but he (Dr. L.) had answered, that he did not think it valid, but at the same time added, that he did not think due preparations had been made on the other side of the water; that he expected at Stade the greatest possible inconvenience from the want of specific orders. Lord Liverpool assured him, that a communication had been immediately made to baron d'Este, the representative of the Hanove-
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rian government in the absence of count Munster. Afterwards lord Liverpool had declared, that he should be perfectly satisfied if the funeral were ready by Tuesday morning, and in a letter to him (Dr. L.) had mentioned that he wished the journey to be performed in two days, but that three should be allowed if it could not be accomplished in less time with decency and full decorum. On Saturday he (Dr. L.) had made enquiries as to the preparations to be expected at Stade: because of all the wild schemes, the wildest would have been for him to undertake the journey with the corpse and retinue, without some knowledge of what accommodations could be afforded. When he first called upon baron d'Este, at Mortlake, he could not see him; but he was afterwards told by him, that by the last mail orders had been sent that every facility should be afforded. He (Dr. L.) had then begged to be informed whether any specific orders had been given on the occasion—whether any carriages or horses had been provided? the baron answered, "Carriages there are none in the country but German waggons, and no specific orders have been given, but a messenger shall be despatched on Tuesday." Tuesday was the very day the funeral was to start, and as the messenger must cross the sea, he could not be at Stade sooner than the corpse. The baron added, that Stade was a pretty little town, and that the Queen's body would, perhaps, have to remain there for several days. Under these circumstances, he (Dr. L.) knew not what course he ought to adopt; but he never could think it consistent with decency and decorum, that her Majesty's remains should be hurried from this country with all possible expedition, for the purpose of running the chance of lying at such a town as Stade for several days. It was not on the earl of Liverpool that any blame rested, but on those who were charged with the execution of the details. He (Dr. L.) had been told that the persons employed by government had orders to deliver the body to the executors at Harwich, attended only by two undertakers. What would have become of him and of the hearse if he had set oft with those two undertakers, he left it for the hon member for Huntingdon to decide. He could have done nothing but for the intervention of the superior authorities. He was of course astonished when he was told by the undertaker, that they

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were to give up the body to him at Harwich. "Neither I" (such was his language) "nor my men will go further: you must take charge of the body." He was to take charge of the body to Stade, where there were no conveyances but German waggons. He appealed to any man under such circumstances as to the course the executors could pursue. Were they to take upon themselves this grievous onus? He made inquiry of every indivividual he could meet with, acquainted with the country, and from one and all he found that the difficulties mentioned by baron D'Este had not been overstated. It was at last only by the great exertions of the Hanoverian government, that the body was moved at all from Stade. He (Dr. L.) had written to the earl of Liverpool, stating that he would not undertake the responsibility—that he did not dare undertake it; and he was assured that due preparations had been made on the other side of the water. In declining the office, he declined it with reluctance, and with a great violation of his own wishes. He had further requested, that some person receiving authority from government might undertake the charge, and he required that it might be assigned to some individual of the rank of a gentleman. He had to regret, that no such person had been appointed. When a queen of England had departed this life it was incumbent on Government to have taken care that some person of the rank and with the feelings of a gentleman was appointed to manage the obsequies: not to have done so, savoured strongly of indignity. He did not attribute any want of attention or consideration to lord Liverpool; but, in consequence of mismanagement somewhere, be (Dr. L.) had been compelled to take the course he had pursued. I will state to the House, (continued the learned doctor), as briefly as I can, the circumstances which occurred in the course of the funeral procession. Early on the morning of the 14th of August, in fact before six o'clock, I went to Brandenburgh-house: I inquired if any one was present who had authority from government to take charge of the funeral arrangements; and for some time no one answered. At last I was told that one of the undertakers had authority to move the body; and Mr. Thomas, a person possessing neither the rank, manners, nor appearance of a gentleman, came forward. Mr. Thomas said, that he was
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authorized to move the queen's remains; I requested to know the nature of his authority. The authority was then produced; and of what does the house think it consisted? It consisted of a copy of the intended ceremonial, which was without a signature, and was not addressed to Mr. Thomas by name. Now a copy of the ceremonial had been sent to me; so so that if the document did confer authority, in such authority I was Mr. Thomas's co-partner; but when that person asked, if I intended to resist the removal of the body, my answer was, that nothing could be farther from my intention. And here I must clear myself upon a point as to which I have been misrepresented. It had been stated, that, in a conversation with one of the undertaker's people, I expressed my disapprobation of the military escort provided. I beg to declare that I never used such an expression. It is not very probable that I should have communicated upon such a subject, with an individual standing in the situation of an undertaker. I thought at the time, and I think so still, that the attendance of the military was indispensable as a mark of respect to the deceased. What I protested against was, the removal of her majesty's remains, until due preparations had been made for such removal. With respect to the admittance of the public to Brandenburgh-house, it will easily be supposed there was a good deal of difficulty. To admit all who were desirous of admittance was quite impossible: for issuing tickets there was no time; and it was difficult to say where the exclusion should commence. At last it was agreed that one of the undertakers should let in such persons as appeared of respectable class. At length the procession was in motion. I had by that time divested myself of all responsibility, and I think I shall convince the House that my conduct throughout that day was cautious in the extreme. When the first stoppage took place upon the road, the officer who commanded the Blues rode up to my carriage. He stated the impediment which had already arisen, and the difficulties which were likely to arise in advancing; he then added, "I conceive you are invested with authority to go, which way you please; will you jusitfy me in taking another route?" My answer to the officer was, that I had no authority whatever, and that I thought the measure which he proposed would be attended

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with deep responsibility. I then advised him to send an express to lord Liverpool for further instructions; and I believe that an express was despatched. Shortly after this I received a second message, not from sir Robert Baker, but from an individual high in authority. The effect of that message was, to entreat me, a second time, to interfere, and a second time I refused to do so. And here I must take the liberty to deny that the wish for her majesty's remains to go through the city was the wish of the mob alone. I cannot yet be induced to believe that the whole corporation of London ought to be described as a mob. It would be rather bold doctrine for ministers to say that the wish of the people is to be degraded by calling it the wish of the mob. Upon the occasion in question, I do not hesitate to declare that there were the most extraordinary demonstrations of grief, regard, and affection, from almost every one who witnessed the melancholy spectacle. The expression of feeling exceeded all that I had anticipated; although I was prepared, from her majesty's death under such circumstances, to expect a very strong feeling; and I am sure that every gentleman who witnessed the passage of the funeral through the suburbs of London, and from thence to Romford, will confirm what I am stating. There can be few at this time who do not think it would have been better if ministers had harkened to the prayer of the city of London. They surely might have indulged the wishes of the people, without compromising either duty or principle; and it is with pain that I have heard words from a right hon. gentleman which may lead the House to believe that the route was marked out by one whom, by the forms of parliament, I am not permitted to mention. For my own part, however, I cannot suppose that ministers were deprived of due latitude of discretion. I cannot but think that, without offence to the Crown, they might have indulged the general wish of the people, and spared, by so doing, the bloodshed and confusion which ensued. Of the creation of that confusion, however, no portion fell to my lot. I remained a passive spectator in my carriage while the shots were firing round me; I might almost say a passive victim, for I was quite near enough to run the risk of suffering by that firing. And here I feel myself imperatively called upon to state one fact,
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bearing upon the conduct of the hon. member for Southwark (sir R. Wilson) That hon. member, at the time to which I am speaking, rode up to my carriage, and expressed his determination to stop, if possible, the effusion of blood. I tried to dissuade him from interfering, on account of the personal danger to which he must be exposed; but be did, like a gallant gentleman, expose his own life to save the lives of others; and it is my firm opinion, if this were the last moment I had to live, that the hon. member, when be left my carriage, had no desire or intention but to stop the effusion of blood, which was apprehended. The procession reached Romford at eight in the evening. All the persons attending upon her majesty's remains had, at that time, been thirteen hours in the mourning coaches, without an opportunity of leaving their seats. It was then suggested to me by certain three persons who assumed control over all our proceedings—the individuals composing this illustrious triumvirate being no other than, first, the honourable and ingenious Mr. Thomas, of the lord chamberlain's office; second, the highly to be respected Mr. Chittenden, whose occupation is that of letting out horses and carriages; and last, not least, but infinitely more respectable than the other two, Mr. Bailey, a partner in the house of Bailey and Saunders, the undertakers, who certainly did his duty to the best of his ability. This triumvirate, to whom the supreme control of the Queen's funeral was committed, suggested that we should proceed, that same night, to Colchester, I stated to the directors—from whom (excepting always Mr. Bailey) nothing like common respect, or even common decency of behaviour, could be obtained—the situation of the persons composing the procession. It was impossible for lady Hood and the female attendants to proceed that night. If the House considers that they had then been thirteen hours in the carriages, exposed not merely to fatigue, but to severe and dangerous trial, they will feel that it was impossible. I stated the difficulty in very strong terms, to Mr. Thomas; and what will hon. gentlemen thing was his answer? Mr. Thomas said, that if any attempt was made to delay the departure of the funeral, he would call in the military. My answer was, that I should always be ready to attend the body of my deceased mistress wherever went, and however it went; that per-

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sonal fatigue was to me a matter of no consideration; and accordingly, starting again at half past ten the same night, we arrived at Chelmsford about four in the morning—our horses knocked up, our procession disorganized—one coach here, another coach there, the hearse out of its place, the attendants scarcely able to move, and the whole procession in a state of confusion which would have been disgraceful on an occasion of infinitely less moment and solemnity. At Chelmsford, however, about half past four in the morning, her majesty's remains were deposited in the church. Sir George Nayler was then called for, to place the crown and cushion upon the coffin. Sir George Nayler was not forthcoming: although it was the duty of that officer to attend the funeral, he begged to decline following it at such a Newmarket pace. The ingenious Mr. Thomas said, that it was no matter whether Sir George was present or not, because they had orders to use as little pomp as possible. Having sent off a letter by express to lord Liverpool, urging that some proper person should be sent to take charge of the funeral, I received a peremptory order from the triumvirate to be ready at nine o'clock. At nine the attendants were ready; and we were then informed that the horses could not set off before 11—the convenience of the horses being attended to, however that of the human beings was neglected. We reached Colchester about 4 o'clock that afternoon, and received further orders to be ready again at eight in the evening. Here, finding it was vain for us to hope for any relief, as long as the wearied horses could drag the hearse along, I produced a copy of a letter from lord Liverpool, which I had received in the early part of the transaction, stating that the journey was not to be performed in two days, unless it could be done with convenience; and after some time I was told that that letter had produced some effect, although my remonstrances could produce none; and that we should be excused from proceeding until five o'clock next morning. I, of course, had nothing to do but to acquiesce.—I now request the attention of the House to some circumstances which I consider essential to the explanation of my after conduct. At my first interview with her majesty, on the 4th of August, she particularly desired that I should place upon her coffin the inscrip-
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tion which afterwards gave occasion to much difference. When I received her majesty's instructions, I did not at once feel the deep responsibility which they cast upon me. I begged she would repeat her commands. She did so; and solemnly enjoined me, with her dying breath, to see them executed. So strong was my feeling upon that occasion, that subsequently, on the 5th of August, I stated to my royal mistress, the difficulty which I might experience in obeying her injunction; and she said that she would put the order into a codicil, that the world might be sure she knew what that order was. The house will feel that my situation would have been a most responsible one, if I had come down to state to government and to the world, such matter as a private order from the deceased Queen; her majesty made a memorandum first, and the codicil afterwards spoke for itself: still I felt that the trust imposed upon me might be attended with difficulty in its execution; and I shall now state to the house what passed with lord Liverpool upon the subject. Lord Liverpool said, when the codicil was read, that it was impossible for the king's government to have such a plate fixed upon the coffin, because it would be pronouncing a censure upon them, I answered that nothing could be further from the intention of the executors. Lord Liverpool then said, that he made much allowance for my motives, but that government could not do the thing; if the executors did it, it was their own concern. I never entertained the slightest doubt, from all that passed, that lord Liverpool's intention was this—government can have nothing to do with it; if it is done by the executors, no notice will be taken of it. I did believe, that if lord Liverpool entertained any other intention, he would have distinctly avowed it, leaving me to make it known to the world that I had done my best, though uusuccessfully, to obey the orders of my mistress. The plate was not ready until the morning of the 14th of August. Mr. Wilde had undertaken to be ready at Brandenburgh-house to fix it on the coffin before the departure of the funeral; but his carriage being delayed by the pressure of the crowd, prevented him from reaching Brandenburgh-house in time. No other opportunity occurred while the body remained in England, except that which was made use of at Colchester; and I do not hesitate to declare,

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that it was after much painful consideration, that I adopted the course which was finally carried into execution. On the one hand, I did feel a reluctance to fixing the plate in the church; on the other hand, it was the last opportunity likely to be afforded to me, of keeping the promise I had so solemnly made. Now, what is the course which, under such circumstances, I ought in duty and in honour to have taken? For I do pray the House not to look at the matter with the cool calculation of after deliberation, but with reference to the feelings by which parties, at such a moment would be actuated. I took the alternative, which I believed to be the best; and if the thing were to occur again, and I had, as then, pledged my honour to my dying mistress, to fulfil her last intentions to the best of my power, so help me God! I would again pursue the same course. I know that I have been charged with having had no respect for the house of God—I know that canters and methodists, who, at the time, approved what I was doing, have since been base enough to tell other tales; but, if the House thinks that I have erred from the true path of my duty, I can only say that I have erred honestly, and with an intention to do the best. I took the opportunity when the church was nearly empty; the plate was fixed on in less than three minutes; and it was not until after it was actually fixed on, that any representation was made to me upon the subject. As I was about to leave the church, a communication with regard to the plate was made to me by the illustrious Mr. Thomas. I remonstrated against what was intended, and at last entreated that, before it was ' removed, an express might be sent to lord Liverpool, that the orders of govern-might be taken; for I felt confident that his lordship would not order it to be taken off. Of the confusion which occurred afterwards I know nothing. I left the church at once, and did not return until all was over. I heard that the military had been called in, but I know nothing as to what then happened. Nothing disgraceful or indecorous took place while I was present. On the morning following this transaction, the funeral procession proceeded to Harwich. And here the House is not in possession of all the circumstances which afford ground of complaint. I complain that, the procession having arrived at Harwich, the body was taken out of the hearse and carried along
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the quay with the utmost rapidity. Such was the fact, and I defy any eye-witness of the scene to deny it. But I will state another circumstance connected with this needless and indecent haste. There was no pall put upon the coffin when it was taken out of the hearse. It was carried to the boat without one; and I do think that even the most extreme expedition might have allowed a few moments for the putting on of a pall, for enabling the attendants to leave their carriages, and to divest themselves a little of that dust and dirt which rendered their mourning scarcely decent.—The learned doctor continued. What he again complained of here was, not that the body had been removed without his accompanying it, but that half an hour had not been given for decent and necessary arrangement. That such haste with the coffin had been unnecessary was clear, because he did not leave Harwich for an hour after; but he did believe that never had the funeral of any individual of rank been conducted with such a disregard of decorum and solemnity. Such improprieties could not have occurred, if, instead of the persons he had mentioned, the hon. member for Huntingdon (Mr. Calvert) had joined the procession at Brandenburgb-house. And here he felt it due to the hon. member to state, that he deserved his thanks for the manner in which he conducted himself. That hon. gentleman had discharged his duty honestly towards his employers; but, at the same time, with kindness and urbanity to all who were concerned, on the part of her late majesty, in the removal of her remains. When they carne to Harwich, so little was known of the intentions of government, that no adequate preparations had been made, beyond those which were necessary for the reception of the hearse. The friends of her majesty, who had accompanied the procession thus far, were, in consequence, prepared to go back to London. The hon. member for Huntingdon appeared to be precisely in in the same situation that be (Dr. L.) was in; with this difference—that he had authority to command assistance, while he (Dr. L.) had no power whatsoever. The hon. member, in this state of affairs, pressed at once into the service ten of the undertaker's assistants, who were compelled, much against their inclination, to place themselves and four carriages on board the vessel; and certainly a more doleful spectacle he never saw than that

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which they exhibited. When they arrived at Stade, such was the extreme difficulty of landing the body, that he was obliged himself to give all the personal assistance in his power. With great difficulty the landing was effected; and if it had not been for very considerable exertions, the remains of her majesty must have continued in the hearse throughout the whole time, or they must have been removed in a manner degrading and disgusting. On the landing of her majesty's remains, an officer of the Hanoverian legion was asked whether any intimation of the proposed interment had been forwarded to Brunswick? His answer was, that they knew nothing about it. He was then asked, whether he would proceed to Brunswick to make the necessary arrangements? and he replied, that he could not without authority. He stated, however, that he would go to Hanover, to learn what course was to be pursued. This he did; and he came back in time to Brunswick, to state what was to be done.—He now came to the selection of persons to attend her majesty's remains. The earl of Liverpool's directions to him were, You may select from the Queen's household such persons as you think fit to attend the funeral;" thus leaving to him (Dr. L.) the task of selection; that selection, however, being confined to those who belonged to her majesty's household. He did use the power of selection which was thus given to him, and it was with great pain he found that his conduct, in exercising that authority, had incurred the displeasure of one of the members for the city (alderman Wood.) When first the hon. alderman stated to him his wish to attend the funeral, he (Dr. L.) declared how anxious he was to set down his name. This, however, was before he received the directions which it had pleased the earl of Liverpool to communicate to him. Those directions referred exclusively to her majesty's household; and how, he would ask, in the name of honour, could he put down the hon. alderman's name as one of her majesty's suite? The House would, however, guess his astonishment, when, three weeks afterwards, he found the letter which he had written to the hon. alderman on this subject, printed in the public newspapers, together with a comment. This was the more extraordinary, because he had met the hon. alderman at Brunswick, and at that time he had made no
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complaint. It had been stated, that he received a carte blanche from the earl of Liverpool, to fix on any four names he pleased. But he had no such carte blanche. The fact was, that he was allowed to take one individual to act as German interpreter, and three others, to fill up the number, who were to be selected from the household. He trusted the hon. alderman would feel that he (Dr. L.) would have been the last man to have interposed any obstacle to his attending the funeral of his own creation. But it surely would have been very bad taste if he had, after the specific directions he had received, offered the hon. alderman a place, his eligibility for which might have been disputed. He conceived that he had some reason to complain of what had been stated on this subject; and he would now say, that he should have acted on the same principle, if instead of the hon. alderman, it had been the dearest friend he had alive who was concerned. He had now, to the best of his recollection, explained circumstances which were misrepresented at the time, and he hoped the House at large would do justice to the propriety of his motives if errors and mistakes had occurred in the course of the proceedings to which the attention of the House was that night called, they were on his part wholly unintentional. Her majesty had been pleased to honour him with her confidence generally in the absence of the hon. members for Winchelsea and Nottingham (Messrs. Brougham and Denman). When the trial was over, he thought his vocation was at an end; but some months afterwards, when he had little time to spare, his professional exertions were again called for. He mentioned these circumstances, because he deprecated above all things the idea that he had become at any time her majesty's political adviser. That duty, he felt, was in much better hands. As to the motion before the House, he must say (acquitting lord Liverpool of any desire to show disrespect to the remains of the Queen) that the preparations for the funeral were not such as were adequate to the occasion. In his view of the transaction, proper persons were not employed, and proper care was not taken, to conduct the funeral as it ought to have been conducted. Too much had been left to chance—decency had been violated—proper repect had not been paid—and the feelings of the country had been grossly outraged.
The Marquis of Londonderrythought it due to the learned gentleman to state, that he had met the point at issue, in a very fair and candid manner. After the able explanation of his right hon. friend (Mr. Peel), and the clear statement of his hon. friend (Mr. Calvert), the duty he had to perform was narrowed to one or two points, contained in the speech of the learned gentleman. By what had fallen from the learned gentleman, it was evident that the earl of Liverpool had done every thing in his power to facilitate the duties of those who were connected with the funeral. No blame could fairly be attached to the presence of the military; for he found the learned gentleman declaring, as executor, that it would have been a manifestation of disrespect if they had not attended. In short, he had very little necessity to step forward and defend the conduct of ministers, since it would be quite sufficient to quote the learned member's speech, in the course of which he had swept clean away every accusation that could be brought against them, as this was the case, he would leave the conduct of ministers out of the question, and apply his observations to certain points which required explanation. He would first look to the true position of the parties at the time—a point which the learned gentleman had not stated. The learned gentleman conceived it to be necessary that he should, by some act on his part, have divested himself of the character of executor, before the ordering of the funeral was taken cut of his hands: and, as he had done no such act, he inferred that it was in consequence of some special order issued by the earl of Liverpool that the funeral of her majesty passed from his hands, as executor, and was intrusted to those of the government. He had argued that if every thing had been conducted in a regular and suitable manner, he would have remained to the last, as the acting person. Now, he (the marquis) would contend, that though this might have been the case with respect to an executor under ordinary circumstances, yet the rule did not apply where a member of the royal family was concerned. The learned gentleman was informed, on the first interview he had with the earl of Liverpool, that the expenses of the funeral would be borne on the part of the Crown and of the public. This the learned gentleman admitted; and he also admitted that the earl of Liverpool was most anxious to hear and weigh every
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suggestion connected with the decorum of the ceremony. The noble earl would not, however, allow, that the superintendance of the funeral belonged to the executors: he could not suffer them to be responsible for that which belonged to the government and the country.—He now came to the mode in which the funeral was conducted, and which appeared to be the only point that bore at all on the servants of the Crown. The learned gentleman had argued, that the persons to whom the funeral was intrusted, were not suitable to such a charge. He, however, must oppose the description which the learned gentleman had given of them. Mr. Thomas was, in every respect, a gentleman; and the conduct of the learned doctor in leaning so much against that individual, did not correspond with the general liberality that characterized his speech. But, what was the fact with reference to the employment of this gentleman? It was merely this—Mr. Thomas acted under Mr. Mash, and was the next officer in the department. If Mr. Mash had been in England, it would have been proper to ask why he had not attended. But he was then in Ireland, busily employed in making preparations for those festivities to which the visit of his majesty gave rise. In his absence, Mr. Thomas was employed; and it ought to be observed, that Mr. Thomas was the person who, a short time before, conducted the funeral of the late duke of Kent, and conducted it, as was admitted on all hands, in a very proper and decorous manner. The circumstance be had stated showed, that it was the desire or Iris majesty's ministers to manifest every respect to her majesty's remains. They sent the secretary of the department to take charge of the funeral from Harwich to Brunswick; and they confided the previous proceedings to the highest officer who was immediately on the spot. What blame could attach to ministers when it was apparent that they made use of the whole force which it was in their power to lay their hands on? It was stated as matter of charge, that Mr. Thomas arrived at Brandenburgh-house with no other authority except a programme of the procession. What other authority did he require? He had received his orders from the government; and certainly he had no consent to obtain from the learned gentleman. If the learned gentleman knew Mr. Thomas, and was aware of his business, he ought to have respected his authority. The con-

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duct of Mr. Thomas appeared to have given gentleman the learned gentleman much offence: but it was evident that Mr. Thomas thought the learned gentleman meant to obstruct his authority; and that obstruction he felt he was bound to oppose. But it was said that sufficient ceremony was not used at the funeral. Let the House look candidly at every part of the transaction. Government, acting on their own responsibility, directed the funeral, and they did all in their power to have it conducted with due solemnity. Now, what was the first difficulty which the learned member interposed? What was the nature of the proposition which he made; and what was the wisdom, as proved by the result, which directed it? The learned gentleman called for delay. Yes; though he admitted that her majesty's directions were explicit on this subject—though he knew that she had directed her remains to be removed from this country within three days, still he wished the funeral to be postponed. Here, he must say that he agreed with his hon. friend, who expressed his opinion that her majesty was not anxious for great funeral pomp, nor for that popular pageantry from which, perhaps, she had not derived great advantage in her life-time. There was no reason for supposing that any such feelings operated on her majesty's mind. But what was the learned gentleman's motive for demanding delay? "I have (said he) no reason to think that preparations will be made at Stade by the time the body arrives there; and I will not allow it to be removed until such preparations are completed there." What was this, he would ask, but a dereliction of his duty as an executor? Was it not acting in contradiction to the course which her majesty wished to be taken? Would it not have had the effect of keeping the Queen's remains in this country, contrary to her desire, for three weeks or a month? At that very time orders were given to have a supply of horses on all the roads; and surely nothing could be more idle or more unnecessary than to delay the funeral under such circumstances. He had a letter from the secretary of the department, in which it was stated, that the body was landed on the 23rd at Stade, after a favourable passage; and so complete were the arrangements, that it arrived at its destination, without encountering even a day's delay on the road, on the 26th. Therefore, the decision of the earl of Liverpool
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was most correct. Baron d'Este, on the landing of her majesty's remains, sent forward a courier with the necessary directions, and every thing was done to expedite the ceremony.—The whole question then, narrowed itself into what occurred on this side of the water; and every one of the proceedings here could be defended without difficulty. As to the removal of her majesty's remains, could any course be pursued with propriety, but that of obeying the instructions contained in her majesty's will, as far as those instructions could be followed with a due regard to decency and solemnity? Her majesty desired her remains to be removed at the earliest possible period; and certainly the learned gentleman had communicated to the earl of Liverpool, if not the whole of her majesty's will, at least the codicil which contained that direction. The earl of Liverpool acted in the spirit of that codicil. He saw no reason for delaying the ceremony, and he gave the necessary directions. The first idea was, to have the funeral on the Saturday, her majesty having died on the Tuesday. Saturday was however, on reflection, considered to be too early a day. Monday was then mentioned and Tuesday was, in the end, preferred, as a more favourable day. No objection was made to the solemnization of the funeral on that day, and he believed the learned gentleman himself had stated that he was satisfied with the arrangement. How, then, could any imputation of an undue acceleration of the Queen's funeral be cast upon the sovereign? The House would go before him in perceiving, that the arrangement was made here, and that his majesty could have no motive in hastening the day. Having been accidentally in attendance on his majesty at Holyhead at that time, he could state, that it was not till two days after the death of her majesty that intelligence was received of what had taken place. His majesty had no other anxiety on the subject, but that an arrangement should be made, with every respectful attention befitting the solemnity of the occasion. He wished that the ceremony should be conducted in that solemn and respectful manner which was due to the obsequies of every member of his majesty's family. During the period to which he alluded, all those marks of respect which were customary on the decease of the royal family (such as lowering the flag, &c.) were observed, and his majesty never appeared on deck,

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except when he was obliged. As to the influence which her majesty's death produced on the king's visit to Ireland, it had nothing to do with this question. The Irish nation ardently expected his majesty's presence; and, after the notification of the arrangements which had been made for his reception, much public inconvenience would have arisen, had his visit been postponed. This, however, had nothing whatever to do with the arrangement of the Queen's funeral. That arrangement was made in this country, and his majesty had not in any degree influenced it.—With respect to what took place between the learned gentleman and Mr. Thomas, in the fulfilment of the duty which devolved on the latter, he begged leave to place that transaction in its true light. It certainly appeared to him, that the learned gentleman had no right to do what he had done. It was, on his part, an interference without authority. The remains of her majesty were in the hands of others, and not in his hands. Those who conducted the funeral to the coast declared that they would prevent the affixing a certain plate to the coffin, while her majesty's remains were in the hands of the officers of government; but they made no observation on any thing that might happen at Stade or elsewhere. While her majesty's remains continued in the hands of the officers of government, they felt it their duty to resist the placing an inscription on the coffin, which must be offensive both to the Crown, and the servants of the Crown. They never admitted, that the learned gentleman, as executor, had a right to take away the inscription already on the coffin, for the purpose of affixing, with his own hand, another inscription of a very different kind. Such a proceeding would have been an improper and contemptible evasion of a plain duty; because, admitting such a course to be taken by the learned gentleman, it would, though the act were done by his hand, be a direct deviation from the wishes of government. Those who had the charge of her majesty's remains, at the moment to which he alluded, merely said—"So long as those remains are under the care of officers employed by the British government, no such inscription as that proposed by you shall be placed on the coffin. As to what may be done afterwards, we neither know, nor is it our province to hazard
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any opinion about it." He now came to what occurred at Harwich, to which the earned gentleman had given a higher degree of colouring than the statement of his hon. friend (Mr. Calvert), or that of the secretary to the home department warranted. It was stated, that when the Funeral reached Harwich, the tide was Falling, and if advantage were not immediately taken of it, the body would be 24 hours longer on shore, unless it were embarked at night. It was, therefore, determined that the embarkation should take place immediately; and he understood that the great mass of her majesty's attendants were assembled before orders were given for the solemn ceremony of lowering her remains into the barge. An hon. and gallant officer was present, and that gallant officer had done every thing in his power to render the embarkation as respectful and solemn as possible. If any inadvertence was observable in the arrangement, it could only be attributed to the undertaker's assistants; and was that, he would ask, a fit ground for a grave charge against his majesty's ministers? Was the mind of parliament to be brought back to matter of the most painful reflection, because the undertaker had failed in some part of his duty? The question for the House to consider was—whether any intention to treat her majesty's remains with disrespect existed in the minds of ministers? The learned member had panegyrised lord Liverpool, he had panegyrised lord Melville and the Admiralty—in short, he did not know whom the learned member had not panegyrised, except those officers of the government to whom the care of the funeral was intrusted, and who, he thought, had endeavoured to conduct it with every proper respect. As to the alleged rapidity with which the funeral moved along, he could not join with the learned member in visiting it with censure. He could not agree with the learned gentleman in thinking that the funeral should have been delayed on the road, because riots had occurred in its passage through the town. Preparations were made at Chelmsford for the reception of the body at a certain time; and it would have created much inconvenience if it had not arrived at the prescribed period. Was it to be said that, because the first stage had not been gone so rapidly as had been expected, therefore, the other stages must be deranged? With respect to the refusal

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to defer to the city of London, and proceed in compliance with the wishes of the common council, he thought the explanation he had to give was abundantly satisfactory. If the wishes of the common council had been communicated before any arrangement had been made, it might have been considered whether they ought to be acceded to; but he held in his hand the letter which was written in answer to the prayer of the common council, and which showed that the question was, whether the arrangements which had been made should be changed in consequence of their wishes. He put it to the house, whether, after the arrangements had received the sanction of his majesty, it would have been fitting to change them, because the common council wished it? He was not disposed to speak with disrespect of the common council, however he might differ from them in opinion; but certainly there had been nothing in their conduct respecting the Queen, which should have disposed the government to conduct the funeral out of its way to gratify them. He had never heard that they had asked to pay the same respect to the memory of her majesty, queen Charlotte. It was true, the course of the funeral had not been through the city; but that was no reason why the common council might not have expressed a similar feeling of respect. He could not see any reason why this funeral should have been particularly honoured in this way, or why it should make a detour through the city, for the purpose of canonizing her majesty. But this was not the question. The question was, whether the government would have been justified in directing the funeral to go out of the way, for the purpose of honouring her majesty or the common council? The government felt a great relief in the consideration, that they were acting in unison with her majesty's desire, but they had had a great duty imposed upon them, not to suffer her majesty to be again made the vehicle for a faction and a cabal in this country. The first intention had been, to have the funeral conveyed by water; but the navigation of the river presented so many obstructions, that this intention was abandoned. Not only were the last wishes expressed by her majesty in favour of a private funeral but every principle of propriety connected with the tranquillity of the country, indicated that course. Looking to the
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whole of this subject, he deeply lamented that the attention of the House and the country had again been drawn to it. He thought that the sooner it was dropped, and a veil was drawn over the lamentable transactions connected with it, the better. He could not look back without pain and grief on the shameful attempt which had been made to turn the tragical circumstances of that day, into the means of invading the public peace, and disturbing the public tranquillity. It was one of the most atrocious attempts to oppose the execution of the law, and to obstruct by force, the officers of the Crown in the discharge of their duty, that had ever disgraced the history of the country, and one upon which be should never reflect without regret and sorrow.
Mr. Hobhousesaid, it was not his intention to have trespassed upon the House, had it not been for some expressions which had fallen from the noble lord, and the right hon. secretary. He had hoped, that they were not, at that time of day to be told that those who advocated the cause of the Queen were a faction and a cabal. He had hoped, that the people of this country would no longer have been termed a faction, because they had come forward with honest and manly sincerity in behalf of one whom they conceived to be suffering under the strong grasp of power, and to have been made the victim of the most unjust persecution to which any individual, in any age or country, had ever been exposed. If by the word faction was meant a vast majority of the people of England, in fact, the whole of the nation, except those whose interest it was to join in the persecution, then he could understand how its might be applied to those who advocated the cause of her majesty. But the term faction could not apply to the nation at large; it was applicable only to a few designing, base, intriguing, interested individuals, who had meanly endeavoured to raise themselves upon the ruin of a woman—and that woman a Queen, whom it was their duty to protect, the wife of their sovereign, to whom, instead of fostering his prepossessions, it was their duty to give sound and manly advice. These individuals where indeed, a factious cabal. It was not a portion of the English nation, but the whole of the people who had taken the part of the Queen. The generous sentiments which they had expressed in her behalf, would be confirmed by posterity;

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and, notwithstanding the efforts of the noble lord to suppress the inscription of "the Injured Queen," it would be attached for ever to the name of Caroline Queen of England; it would remain an indelible proof of the meanness of her persecutors, who would not even suffer her to rest in her grave, and who were base enough to stigmatize all who came forward in her defence. He was not often in the habit of using warm language in that House, but he could not refrain from expressing the language of his heart on this occasion. In undertaking the defence of this lady, he not only undertook her defence, but the defence of the people of England. The language which the right hon. secretary had permitted himself to use that night, appeared to be borrowed from a leaf in the book of another right hon. gentleman, from whom it came with as little grace, though perhaps with somewhat more of effect. It was an extraordinary, though not quite a new doctrine in that House, that there should be any portion of his majesty's subjects who were not entitled to protection, that there should be a floating portion of the populace, who were to have no protectors or friends, and who were to be exposed at all times to all the abuse, and contumely, and injury which the right hon. secretary, or the right hon. gentleman whom he condescended to copy, might think proper to heap upon them. As long as he had the honour to sit in that House, he would never cease to raise his voice in behalf of this despised portion of the people. The right hon. secretary had thought proper to say, that his hon. friend, the member for Aberdeen had made, the observation of a tailor La member suggested that the words were "fit for a tailor"]. Well, he would suppose the words to be "fitted or suited to a tailor," for he might not have entered into all the wit as well as all the refinement of the right hon. secretary's observation. He must say that this was an observation which he should least have expected to hear from the right hon. secretary; and he could not help reminding that right hon. gentleman, that it ill became him to make any disparaging allusions to a branch of humble industry. To say that the observations of any member of that House were only fit for a tailor [the appearance of Mr. M. A. Taylor, who walked up the House to his seat at this moment occasioned much laughter] was language which he could
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only attribute to the novelty of the right hon. gentleman's situation. Res dura et regni novitas. It was language ill suited to the abilities or the station of the right hon. gentleman, and the right hon. gentleman should take care what language he used, when he attacked his hon. friend. His hon. friend was well able to defend himself; but he must say, that if a question arose as to what course was most decent and decorous in regard to the late transactions, the country would have little difficulty in deciding between the claims of the right hon. secretary, and his hon. friend. It was much to the credit of the right hon. secretary, that while he was out of office he had taken no part whatever against the Queen. He had made one speech on the subject; but in that speech he had expressed no opinion of the general policy of the measures which had been taken against her majesty. He was at a loss, therefore, to conceive why the right hon. secretary should now come forward to take upon himself a gratuitous responsibility. He could readily account for the observations which had fallen from the noble lord opposite, with regard to the common council, because that body had expressed an opinion in unison with every other city of the empire. The noble lord had talked of the Queen of England repenting on her death bed of the relative situation in which she had stood towards the people of England, and lamenting the little advantage which she had derived from them. He had stated also, that she wished her remains to be interred with none of the pageantry or pomp which the people were desirous of forcing upon her corpse. This was, indeed, very extraordinary language. The Queen knew what the people had done for her; and the House knew what the people had done for the Queen. The earl c f Liverpool had declared, in another place, that he gave up the bill of pains and penalties, in consequence of the opinion expressed by the people of England in favour of the Queen. The noble lord had no authority for saying that it was the Queen's wish that her funeral should be private; for this wish neither appeared on the face of the will, nor was it at any time communicated to her confidential advisers. The noble lord affected to have obeyed the injunctions of the Queen; but how had he obeyed them with regard to the inscription on her coffin? He had, in fact, disobeyed them wherever it served

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his purposes, and had only obeyed them when they were alleged to be in conformity with his own intentions. The noble lord contended that the executors had no authority or control over the body of the Queen, because she was the king's wife, and not a subject. The noble lord held very different language at the period when he persecuted the Queen; for then it was contended, that she was not the king's wile, but a mere subject; Then she was termed an illustrious lady, and there was no term of insult or disparagement which was not employed to degrade her in the eyes of Europe. It was a little singular, too, that only a deputy's deputy in the Chamberlain's Office could be found to execute this last martial office of the king, if this duty were taken from the executors with a view of doing honour to the Queen. The main question was, whether or not the Queen's funeral had been conducted with that decency and respect which ought to have been shewn towards the remains of the Queen of England? From all he had seen, he was ready to answer distinctly in the negative, and to declare that there was not the least appearance of respect towards her from the beginning to the end. With regard to the troop of soldiers that attended the funeral, his learned friend seemed to approve of it. It should be recollected however, that a confidential friend of her majesty, one of her ladies in waiting, had intreated his majesty's government not to employ any troops on this occasion, and had expressed a strong conviction, that if they were employed bloodshed would ensue. For his own part, he saw no necessity for the employment of these troops; but even supposing them to be necessary, he begged the House to recollect, that it was not the guard of honour which occasioned the fray. It was not his intention to have adverted to that fatal catastrophe, but the right hon. gentleman had characterized it in language which called for some observations.—He had talked of the necessity of putting down the opposers of the law. What law, he should be glad to know—the law of the sword? He knew of no other law which could authorize gentlemen in red coats to cut down and fire upon the people. The Riot act had never been read. What law, then, he should be glad to know, did the people oppose? In fact, no law had been opposed, except by his majesty's government, who had, on many other occasions, violated the law in
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the same way, and had at all times shewn themselves willing to accustom the people to military execution. He did not throw out this observation accidentally; for it was his deliberate conviction that, for the last twenty years, the government had shown a systematic desire to accustom the people on all occasions to the interference of the military. He could state most distinctly, that no disturbance whatever took place in the park, until a party of horse guards rode by with swords drawn. Some groans and hisses were then raised on the part of the people, but no stones were thrown. It was not the soldiers, however, that the people of England had to complain of; but the government of the country, who had on all occasions shewn themselves prodigal of the lives of the people. The indecent haste with which the funeral had been hurried from London to Harwich was another point which the noble lord had failed in answering. The noble lord had said, that it was incumbent upon ministers not to suffer the funeral to be turned out of the way. Now, what he complained of was, flea the funeral was turned out of the way by ministers. The corpse of the Queen had not been dragged about by the people but by the government. The conduct of the people had been most exemplary throughout the whole of the transactions of that day; nor was any violence offered to the military, until they had reason to believe that they were going to be sabred, and that the scenes of Manchester were about to be renewed in London. It was true that he (Mr. H.) had advised his gallant friend (sir R. Wilson) not to stir from his place; but he had done so, because he felt, as he represented to his hon. friend at the time, that whatever he might say or do was sure to be misrepresented by those who were interested in putting an unfavourable construction upon his conduct. The question was not whether some of the more minute arrangements, upon which the noble lord had dwelt so much, had been sufficiently attended to, the question was not whether a sufficient quantity of crape or velvet had been employed—but whether the whole arrangements were such as were calculated to pay respect to the memory of an unfortunate Queen. He had no hesitation in declaring that they were not, and in that opinion he should be confirmed by posterity.
Colonel Cavendishsaid, the soldiers were pelted as soon as they appeared.

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The officer commanding had said, that on no occasion, when he had assisted the civil power, had he seen such ill treatment. He begged the House to recollect what had fallen on a former night from a gallant member, (sir It. Wilson) who had seen much service, and done great honour to his profession. That gallant member described the appearance of the soldiers to be that of a troop of cavalry which had been repulsed. The moderation and forbearance of the life guards had, on all occasions, been spoken of with admiration; and it was not likely that they should alter their conduct on this occasion without absolute necessity. He held in his hand a return from the surgeon of the regiment, which was made out on the 15th August, from which it appeared that 37 men were seriously injured. Nine remained a considerable time in the hospital, and one received sc severe a wound in the shoulder, that he had been since discharged. It was said that a soldier forfeited none of the privileges of a citizen, and surely one of those privileges was the right of defending himself when he was attacked. The conduct of the life guards had been marked throughout by the utmost forbearance, nor had they employed violent measures, until they were compelled to resort to them in self-defence.
Sir I. Coffinfelt satisfied, that no good could possibly arise from again bringing the case of the late Queen before parliament and the country. He was tempted to exclaim—"Infandum, regina, jubes renovare dolorem," when he reflected on the conduct of those who were injudicious enough to recall the attention of the House to this subject.
Mr. W. Lambdenied he had ever said that the mob were the only supporters of her late majesty. When be spoke about a mob, he had made no allusion to the people of England, nor could he consider the people of England as responsible for those acts which were done by a tumultuous rabble, of whose conduct they must disapprove. With respect to the question before the House, he would say, that he could not approve of the conduct of government, in ordering the route which they did for the Queen's funeral. He thought it should have been allowed to pass through the city. He thought so, because he had the greatest confidence in the quiet dispositions of the people. In seasons of excitement, he had seen them
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evince a steadiness which he was forced to admire. He could have wished the whole subject to have been buried in oblivion. On her majesty's death he had thought that it would be so, but he was sorry afterwards to see attempts made to prolong dissentions and to continue animosities. It had not only been stated in conversation, but had appeared in print, that she died of the persecutions to which she was subjected—that her heart was broken by indignities which she was called upon to endure. It did not become him to say what was the cause of her majesty's untimely end. It would be presumption in any one to decide whence the blow came. But if her majesty did fall a sacrifice to bitterness of spirit and to wounded feelings, he was persuaded she owed it to the step which she was advised to take in coming to this country, and exposing her conduct to the inquiry which it underwent.
Mr. Denmansaid, that if there was boldness in his learned friend's ascribing, as he had done, the untimely death of her majesty to her coming to this country, it was equally bold to aver, that in coming here she had acted on the advice of others, and not on the decision of her own uninfluenced judgment. When the House considered the treatment which she had received abroad—when they considered the conduct of government towards her—when they considered the threats and bribes with which it was attempted to keep her from our shores, they would see that she had no alternative but to come to England, no course left but to face her accusers. When she left Italy, and before she had taken counsel of any advise' but her own magnanimous spirit, her resolution was fixed to come to this country. When she arrived at St. Omer's she was to all intents and purposes in England, and must have acted as she had done, unless she had chosen to sacrifice her rights and to abandon her character. She had faced her accusers and she came to triumph. Nevertheless, calumnies continued to be heaped upon her, which banished her friends, and prevented her from enjoying that universal respect which the establishment of her character would otherwise have procured. His hon. friend had ascribed those sufferings which broke her majesty's heart to her imprudence in coming to England. But, were none of them to be ascribed to the atrocious libels with which, after her trial, she was

977
assailed? Were none of them to be ascribed to the systematic efforts of a publication established for the express purpose of calumniating her, of banishing, by falsehoods and slander, every respectable female from her doors, and of driving her from society? There were two questions involved in the motion before the House. Did ministers act right in ordering the route which they had done, for the funeral procession, and was there a proper degree of respect shown to her majesty's remains? Nothing could be more absurd or provoking than the conduct of government. It was well known that no feelings of respect and attachment were ever stronger than those entertained by the citizens of London towards her majesty. What was there to find fault with in their feelings, or why should they be denied the melancholy gratification of witnessing her funeral? It was true, her majesty directed that her funeral should be conducted with as little pomp as possible; but could she be understood, by the clause in her will, to decline that spontaneous homage of the heart which the inhabitants of London were prepared to pay her remains on the direct road through the city? The assembled people on this occasion could not be called a mob—it was composed of the respectable part of society, of the middle and lower classes. Why refuse them the gratification of their wish to see the funeral procession of her whom when alive they respected and honoured? The act was ill judged and cruel. With regard to the question of the respect to her majesty in the arrangements for her funeral, he was happy to hear what had been said by the noble lord and the right hon. secretary. When he found that a gallant officer had been ordered to pay all proper respect; when he found that the admiralty had neglected nothing that lay in the power of that department; and when he heard the noble marquis stating that the illustrious husband of the deceased had not only received the news of her death with feelings that did him honour, but that every becoming solemnity was observed by the fleet, he began to doubt whether the blame lay with the government, and whether the present motion was necessary. The charge against the government had been in a great degree removed, and if so, he saw no reason for persisting in the motion. He was sure that the great heart of her late majesty would not have wished that any thing which concerned
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her life or her death, should be perverted for factious purposes. It was not at her wish that she had been placed in the situation which she occupied during the last months of her life. She was dearer to the people by the persecutions which were directed against her. His hon. friend had expressed a wish that all should be forgotten; and he (Mr. D.) would not disturb the ashes of the dead, but, without violating any duty, he would demand whether proper honours and respect had been paid them? The tone adopted by the right hon. secretary, was satisfactory, as being different from that employed formerly by his majesty's ministers. That right hon. gentleman deserved the thanks of his colleagues for coming forward to defend measures in which he did not participate—the measures of an administration which had found the country flourishing and tranquil, but which had made it the scene of transactions, the most dangerous the most degraded, and the most stigmatized, that ever cursed the annals of any nation.
The motion was negatived without a division.

ARMY ESTIMATES.
On the orders, of the day for going into a committee of supply to consider further of the Army Estimates, Mr. Hume and Mr. Bernal objected to going into a committee at that late hour. The House divided. Ayes 116. Noes 28. On the motion, that. the Speaker do now leave the chair, the House divided. Ayes 118. Noes 21. The House having resolved itself into the said committee, lord Palmerston moved, "That 70,756 l. 7s. 11 d. be granted for regimental contingencies."
Mr. Humesaid, he had no wish to throw any impediments in the way of the public business, but it did appear to him, that, after the House had been occupied seven hours upon a most interesting debate, it could not bestow that attention to the proposed vote which it demanded. The first item was 37,000 l. for marching allowances, and for other purposes. This item was not in the estimates last year, and he trusted, therefore, that the noble lord would state why he had introduced it on the present occasion. There was an item of 6,000 l. for supplying the table at St. James's, of the life and foot guards. Now, to no other regiment in the army out the guards (except those stationed in Ireland)

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was any allowance made for mess, beyond the general grant. Up to 1793, no charge was made in the estimates for the support of any table for the guards. The practice previously to that time had been this: a table was kept by the senior officer of the guards on duty for the time being. The officer was remunerated for this by receiving money from those men who were permitted to go out to work for a certain number of days; the payment they received for which was called outlyers' money. He was willing to admit that such a system as this was injurious to the service, and that it ought to be abolished. But he objected to the practice which had been substituted. It appeared that the number of officers on guard, when the king was in town, was five; when he was not in town, the number was reduced to three. These officers, however, instead of dining together by themselves, were in the habit of making up a party of about 16, and these supernumeraries were not officers belonging to the guards or any other regiment, but only Messrs. A, B, and C, to whom the officers on duty gave a treat at the public expense. In order that the country gentlemen might perceive the purposes to which the produce of their wheat and barley was applied, he would read a bill of fare for the supply of the table of the officers of the guards. This important document he had drawn from the 8th report of the commissioners of military inquiry. A breakfast was provided at two different periods, consisting of coffee, tea, cold meats, muffins, rolls, bread, &c. A dinner was provided for 16, (that number was now reduced to 13, being about eight more than there was any necessity for), consisting of the best fish, and every thing else that the London market could supply; there were two regular courses, and in the second course were four dishes of roasted. There was a regular dessert of 13 dishes of confectionary, fruits, olives, &c. But the feasting did not stop there. The gallant officers were supplied with madeira, port, and claret without limitation. This was a merry way of carrying on the war. Perhaps the gallant general (Gascoyne), who had attempted to ridicule his exertions on a former occasion, had spent a considerable part of his campaigning in a similar manner. A regular supper followed. And it was to support such a system of waste and extravagance, that the committee was now called on to vote 6,000 l.
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Such a scene of profusion must set a bad example to the rest of the army. At all events, it the officers of the guards chose to be extravagant, let it not be done at the public expense. An hon. friend near him proposed to reduce the vote by 4,000 l.; but he thought it was better to let the guards down gradually, and he would therefore content himself with proposing that the vote should be reduced only one half in amount. The hon. member next objected to the item of 4,800 l. for the support of the board of general officers appointed to decide upon claims arising in time of war. During the war it was possible that the payment which the board received was not too much; but now, when the board met only once a week, that item ought to be reduced to 2,500 l. Another item was 8,515 l. for allowances to field officers and captains in the guards, in lieu of emoluments formerly derived from outlyers. The officers who had entered the guards upon the understanding that they were to receive certain emoluments from outlyers, were entitled when that system was abolished, to receive some equivalent: but all ground for the grant of the equivalent was taken away, when those persons who had entered the regiment in the expectation of receiving emoluments, ceased to belong to it, or were advanced to majorities. He would appeal to the hon. member for Corfe-castle, who had so clearly defined the principle of remuneration, and he would abide by his decision, whether this practice was fair. Another objectional item was 3,000 l. for printing the acts of parliament and the annual army list. The army list was, he believed, printed under the superintendance of a clerk in the noble lord's office. The profits derived from the sale of the work were considerable, and he should be glad to know whether their amount was credited to the public: 3,000 l. was an enormous sum to pay fur printing. He was convinced that any bookseller (Mr. Egerton, for instance) would thankfully publish the army list without receiving any payment from government. If he did not propose to reduce the item now, for fear of deranging the plans of the noble lord, he trusted the noble lord would spare him the trouble of doing so next year, by abandoning the item altogether. The navy list had formerly been a source of great profit to a family of the name of Steel, until government withdrew its

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patronage from that quarter, and placed a sort of official stamp upon the list published by Mr. Murray. If the navy list could be published by a private book-seller, he could see no reason why the army list should not also be published in the same way. Another very curious item was 2,000 l. for law expenses. He was at a loss to imagine what law expenses were necessary to be defrayed, when they had a judge-advocate connected with the army at a salary of 5,000 l. There could be very little occasion for resorting to law in the army, when it was seen that ministers could, with the stroke of a pen, dismiss officers without any trial. There was a small item, 50 l. for the inspection of great coats. There existed two inspectors of the clothing of the army generally; and he could not see why a man who inspected common coats should not also be able to examine great coats. Immediately following this item, was another of 60 l. for an inspector of regimental colours. He was not aware that sir G. Nayler, by whom that office was held, was particularly qualified to judge of the qualities of silks. If, indeed, it were a question of heraldry, no man could be a more competent judge. The next item to which he had an objection was that of 550 l. for rent of chaplain-general's office. He had before objected to the continuation of this office. It was one created for a particular purpose in 1792, and he did not think there existed any necessity for it. He now came to an item for the riding establishment at Pimlico. When it was considered, that during the whole of the last war the cavalry had so much distinguished themselves on the continent, and that their riding was never objected to, he did not see what necessity there existed for supporting this school at an expense of 1,450 l. Out of the sum of 70,000 l. for contingencies, leaving out 35,000 l. with which he would not interfere, he thought 15,600 l. might be saved; but he had not yet gone through half of the list [Cries of "adjourn."] As he did not wish to proceed against the opinion of the House, he would move, that the chairman do report progress, and ask leave to sit again.
Lord Palmerstonentered into a defence of the several items to which objections had been made. With respect to the clothing, he conceived nothing like a case had been made out. As to
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the rich bill of fare which the hon. member had prepared for the entertainment of the House, be contended, that the 6,000 l. which was thus expended, was an allowance given in lieu of some advantages which captains of the guards had been deprived of; and was one-fourth less than the sum allowed in 1793. As to the allowance for losses by officers, it was most reasonable. The noble lord next adverted to the emoluments derived to captains of companies from outlyers, which he said the captains had at all times been entitled to, and ought not to be deprived of: With respect to the per centage on the army lists, it had been given up, and the person who was employed in his office to complete the annual and monthly lists received a regular salary. The law expenses of which the hon. member spoke, were for the most part charges which had no reference to the Judge Advocate, and over which he had no control. As to the expense of inspecting great coats, it was last year only 50 l., and was paid to quarter masters for the inspection of the great coats sent to the men; and looking at the benefits of such inspection, he would say that no money was better bestowed. As to the office of inspector of colours, as no regiment was without its peculiar colours, and as these always brought to mind some of their proud achievements, such distinguishing mark, if left to the caprice of commanding officers, might be soon altogether done away with. As to the expense of chaplain-general, seeing that the hon. member had proposed to make a general attack on the property of the church, he was not at all surprised at this objection. But to any one who considered that the men were not made worse soldiers, by being made moral and religious, the expense of that superintendance which went to enforce the strict discharge of their duties would not seem too great. As to the riding establishment at Pimlico, it had been heretofore so much discussed, that he would only refer to what had been already said upon it; but he could assure the House, that the proposed change of the Opthalmic hospital into a riding school would be a considerable saving of expense.
Sir H. Hardingedefended the keeping up of the table for the guards, and contended that the junior officers of that corps were worse paid than the officers of the line, who had many allowances which

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the officers of the guards had not. In fact, the junior officers might be said to give their services for nothing for the money they received was not sufficient to pay for their lodgings in town.
The chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again.