Commons Sitting of 26 June 1821

IRISH REVENUE INQUIRY BILL.
The bill having been read a third time,
Mr. Denmansaid, he had an objection on principle to putting members of that House on commissions, particularly when there was to be a salary or remuneration. It was desirable that members should hold no office under the Crown, and it was so laid down in the act of settlement and several others, but particularly the 6th of Anne. The provision of this act was extended by 1 Geo. 1st, and 25 Geo. 2nd. His lion, friend (Mr. F. Lewis) had spoken in strong terms against the supposition that such an appointment could have the effect of influencing his vote on a particular question; but that observation would go to repeal all those acts, The gentlemen opposite were equally justified, and were bound indeed in theory, to make the same assertion, and to state that they sat there not as officers of the Crown, but as members of parliament. If true at all, it must be taken as true to its fullest extent. A different principle had, however, been avowed in the debate, on the member for Shrewsbury (Mr. Bennet's) motion. It was then stated on the opposite side of the House, that if persons under government did not give their votes in its support, the government could not be carried on. It was this dead weight of influence which tended to corrupt the House, degrade its character^ and deprive it of moral authority with the nation. It was but a hollow support which government received from those who derived an income under the administration, while the people were dissatisfied, and parliament failed of making its due impression on the public mind; There were not four divisions during the session, in which the number of the majority had equalled the number of placemen in the House. The 71 gentlemen who held places were vigilant pairers off, and therefore their power in the House was felt on every question of public importance. The general principle for which he contended was against the increase of members holding offices; and the question was, whether there ought to be a departure from that principle in the present instance? His hon. friend had on the former night expressed himself very emphatically on this pointy and had said, he hoped the earth would open and

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swallow him, if his vote should be influenced by his appointment. He had no doubt this asseveration was sincerely made; but he could not help its reminding him of the classical passage, "Tellus prius ad ima dehiscat;" yet the lady who said that, was married or worse, in not many hours after that vow had passed her lips. The hon. and learned member then proceeded to corroborate his opinion as to the unconstitutional principle of the bill, by a reference to a series of statutes, and concluded with moving, to leave out the words "Thomas Frankland Lewis, esq."
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that in the present instance the commissioners were not appointed by the Crown, nor did they look to the Crown for their reward. As to the hon. gentleman to whom the motion applied, he was eminently qualified for the situation, and his acceptance of it was a favour conferred on the public.
Mr. Hobhousesupported the amendment. He stated one ground of objection that had not been remarked on before namely, that as the commission was to be hereafter examined by the House, if members were upon that commission, they would, contrary to the spirit of British law, be parties and judges in the cause. With respect to influence, it was an insult on common sense to say it could be resisted by those who enjoyed the sweets of office; such could not be the case until the gentlemen opposite could alter human nature. No one could doubt the infringement of the principle of law, in the case of the hon. member under discussion.
Mr. J. Smyththought that the difficulties attending the collection of the revenue in Ireland for centuries, made it very desirable to have members on the commission of such qualifications and character as the hon. member alluded to.
Mr. S. Ricewas willing that, in this instance, the general principle, which directed that members of parliament should not hold their seat, together with offices of emolument, should be departed from. The revenue department of Ireland was said to be an Augean stable. This was not a charge against Ireland, but against the misgovernment of England. The commissioners were going over, not to wage war on clerks, or on obscure individuals but, to attack the magnates of the land the great powers and constituted
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authorities on that side of the channel. He hoped that the system of economy which they would introduce would amply compensate for the temporary violation of a principle to which he was thus ready to accede.
Mr. Scarlettsaid, the question was, whether that House would appoint one of its own members to a situation, to which a provision would be attached, either now or hereafter? He thought the House would stand much higher in the estimation of the country, if they did not give the public money to their own members.
The Amendment was negatived. After which, Mr. Denman moved, to insert after the word "Ireland," the words, "provided always, and be it enacted, that no member of either House of Parliament, who shall be appointed a commissioner under this act, shall receive any remuneration for and in respect of the execution thereof." Upon this the House, after a short conversation, divided t Ayes, 35; Noes, 80.

MR. OWEN'S PLAN—NEW LANARK.
Mr. Maxwellrose, pursuant to notice, to move for the appointment of a commission to examine into the feasibility of Mr. Owen's plan. The hon. member spoke as follows:—It is painful to contemplate nakedness and famine in the midst of plenty—to hear that the shower of May, and the sunshine of July are a curse; to know that those who clothe our fields with luxuriance, and animate the landscape with their flocks, must withdraw their eyes from the smiling face of nature to the bitter perspective of a bankruptcy and a dungeon. When we behold the ignorant stoicism of those who have induced such disorder in practice, and such impiety in theory, like Nero looking with unpitying eye on the sorrows they have caused, we are tempted to exclaim in the words of an amiable French, woman, on tracing the ravages of the modern Brennus in Switzerland,—"Les montagnes furent verdoyantes comme autrefois, les prairies florissantes comme jadis, le cœur d'homme seul pourquoi n'etoit-il qu'un desert?" The calamities which have sprung from corn-laws, inequitable to the consumer and useless to, the agriculturist—from a sacrifice of the present generation by a Vansittart,, to; atone for the folly of a past one under the auspices of a Pitt, have traveled through the labouring classes and the productive

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capitalists, and are now settled on the land-owner; and those who could not appreciate the effects upon others, doomed labour to die down to the level of wages, or visited their convulsive movements with the stern compression of military power, are subjected by the perfect justice of Providence to a more convincing evidence, by its action upon themselves. I hope they have nearly expiated their offence against Heaven by their neglect of the manufacturing districts, and that the time is fast approaching when the monied interest will find it right to yield the inequitable increase which the legislature, with good intentions and great folly, have ignorantly bestowed upon it, and to lower their rent upon the community from five to four per cent; to obviate the tardy but certain application of the sponge of necessity. I lament the sufferings of the landlord, of the merchant, and of the manufacturer; but their interests will be protected who hold boroughs, or thrust themselves on the House through the trafficking privileges of the citizens of Cornwall. My object is, to call the attention of the House to the unrepresented labourer of the British empire, who has drained his best veins for the House of Hanover, and now, with impaired force but unshaken fortitude, is working the vessel of the state out of that maelstrom into which a rash and ignorant pilot had steered it. I shall endeavour to prove, not that the poor man has been ill-treated by the legislature, or that he has been neglected by the government, but that his interests have been misunderstood, and his condition overlooked, both by one and the other; and that the indignation which he feels against his wealthy neighbour, and his want of loyalty to the institutions of the country, are misdirected, and in some degree misapplied. The inclosure of commons since the year 1760, has been stated by a judicious and intelligent inquirer into the principles of labour and of poor-laws, to amount to 3,500; and that the increase of the poor-rate appears to have kept pace with the loss of their common rights—the green meadows, which our benevolent and wise forefathers had destined as the life-rent property of successive generations of villagers, the solace of their evening homes, and the arena of their infantine gambols, has become the haunt of the pettifogging attorney, or the unsightly villa of some sordid money-lender. The poor man dependant on his employer,
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became the menial of the farmer and tradesman, instead of his independent and unshackled domestic. But Mr. Pitt, by a restriction on the issue of a metallic currency, and a long and expensive war, soon rendered the nominal shilling of Great Britain, the real sixpence of baiter, and the employer found it better to give money than subsistence to his work people. Unable to maintain his family in the decency of a happier era of his life, the uncomfortable and mortified man sought refuge in the crowded assemblies of manufacture, where, if his mean appearance was less noticed, and his humiliation unknown, a less cleanly cottage, and equal wages, were gladly exchanged for those altered scenes, and that humble position which degraded his mind and wounded his spirit. But here, alas, he was doomed to meet with new misfortunes; and no sooner had the extravagant system of Mr. Pitt carried taxation to a given point, than artificial labour evading his burthens, was launched in half-taxed elasticity, to tear the abundant supply of bread, which loans at home, and exclusive commerce abroad, were beginning to bring within the workman's reach, as they had already done to the other classes of society. Again brought back to the penury and privations with which he was before assailed, he entered into combinations with his fellow-workmen, in imitation of his rich employer; but his wealthy model showed him, that what was lawful to riches was illegal to poverty, and the manufacturer showered from his borough-throne the scalding leaven of the combination laws on his audacious head. Disgusted with his rulers, enraged with his employer, his indignant feelings attack machinery, and, caught in the act, he is immured in a cell, or transported to New South Wales. The term of confinement or banishment arrives, and his grey hairs are sent back to whiten on the pittance of poor-rates, or as a pivot and automaton of some smoked and greasy steam engine, he mendicates the means of life by the degradation of human nature. This I believe to be a faithful picture of the unrepresented labourer; who will, whilst I have a seat in this House, never want a feeble, but, I hope, a sincere advocate; and I ask the man, who has the common courage of his species, if these wrongs might not have tempted him "to take up arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them," as my misguided and suffering country-

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men did at Bonnymuir? If any one can doubt that this is the situation of the labourers of this country, let him inspect the hulks, the gaols, the bridewells, the penitentiaries—let him read the press which writes for the poor—let him visit the manufacturing districts—let him examine the most religious and loyal part of the artisans and mechanics of the island, and his scepticism will disappear. Crime and disaffection could not grow as they do, in spite of the exertions of the religious philanthropy of the public, if some great injustice did not exist in the distribution of the profits of labour, or in the imposition of the public burthens: the violent language of the press could not be relished, if the people of this enlightened land did not feel themselves deeply injured by the privileged and influential classes of society. The orations of a demagogue, and the inflammatory style of an editor, are the effects, and not the cause of public dissatisfaction; both are the barometers of the sentiments of their readers, and their interests make them, as much as their speculative opinions, a faithful index of political feeling. Having made these remarks, to show the motive and impressions which have led me to take the petition of the county of Lanark, I shall proceed to point out what appears to me to be the nature of Mr. Owen's schemes-r-although nay practical efforts have been and will be directed to another channel, and devoted to reduce taxes, not only to relieve the labour of the country from the fetters of a forty per cent property tax, but to save it from the undue influence of the Crown, and from misgovernment. Mr. Owen conceives, that the substitution of the spade to the plough, and a re-union of rural labour to the task of the artisan and mechanic—with a judicious combination of the general stock of industry, and with the savings of fuel, of the profits of retail, and of time in the management of a family, added to a system of education, enforcing the practice of honesty, sobriety, industry, and benevolence, would permit the working classes of society to derive most of the necessaries and a greater share of the happiness of life; and rescue them from the degradation and its consequences—vice and disloyalty which now has become their lot. How far his conception is just, how far his theories might be reducible to practice, it is impossible to say; but he undoubtedly has rendered that establishment over which he presides unusually
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and peculiarly exempt from bad feelings and from profligate lives, without in any way wasting the property over which he is superintendent and joint proprietor, although restricted in his plan by want of land, and inconvenienced by a too numerous population, and an imperfect habitation. The tendency of his plan would unquestionably be, to increase the consumption of the poor, and consequently to augment the value of all articles of home production—of course, to render taxation less oppressive, and to diminish the expenses of government, by reducing the number of starving and disaffected persons. The hon. member concluded by moving, "That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, that he will be graciously pleased to issue a Commission to visit New Lanark, to examine the condition and treatment of the working classes in that Establishment, to inquire into any farther arrangements which Mr. Owen may propose for the benefit of labourers, and to report the same to the House; and to assure his Majesty, that the House will make good the expenses of the same."
Mr. J. Dawsonsaid, that the plan of Mr. Owen had not been treated with all that attention which any proposition for the improvement of the country deserved. He wished the motion had been brought forward at an early period of the session. They had now carefully examined the estimates, and voted the supplies. They had had an insufficient report on foreign trade, and he wished he could say they had had none on agricultural distress. In the report of the latter committee they had an account of all the speculations of every speculative farmer and tradesman. The sum of the report was, that the farmer must receive less for his produce, the landlord less rent, and the shopkeeper less profit. As the farmer had less money to spend, he must reduce his expenses in every direction, and some of the reduction must fall upon the labourer. It was under these appalling circumstances, that a learned gentleman had introduced a bill to stultify that generous system of legislation for the poor on which this country had so long acted. Mr. Owen proposed a more humane plan for the improvement of the poor-laws. His plan was exposed to much prejudice; of which all inventors had to stand the brunt, till it was dissipated by time. It was no small testimony in favour of Mr.

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Owen, that such a petition was presented in favour of his plan from the county of Lanark, which was the scene of his experiments. The benefit which he expected to derive from a parliamentary commission, was from the complete investigation and public discussion which would thus be excited.
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid, that a proposition similar to the present had formerly been rejected by the House, and he still had great doubt of the propriety of deciding that parliament should charge itself with the responsibility of deciding on the prospect held out to the community by Mr. Owen's plan. The mode in which his hon. friend had referred to the report which had been made to parliament during this session, increased those doubts. For, if the report of the agricultural committee was so unsatisfactory, what would the feelings of the country be, if, after being told that a plan existed for bringing back the golden days of paradise, and that parliament had given into the trick, all the bright colours melted into air? In this free and happy country, any plan of this kind would be sufficiently investigated, without the intervention of parliament. The hon. member had told us that the spade was preferable to the plough, and that we should never be happy until we were all digging; that a cotton manufactory could never be carried on well until there was a Mr. Owen to take care of the morals of the people when they came out Of the mill, so that society would lose its dispersed and independent character, and would be reduced to a system of machinery, which the hon. member would drive out of the world, except as applied to human beings. He protested against the House being the proper body to take upon itself the investigation of abstract principles, or of all new inventions, the success of which so often depended on the zeal of the inventors. He hoped they would not undertake an inquiry which would add one to those fruitless results which were supposed to lower their character in public estimation. There Were large and intelligent bodies which had a direct and lively interest in any plan for the improvement of the administration of the poor; and it was not necessary to a trial of Mr. Owen's plan (if it held out any prospects) that the country should be carved out into parallelograms, in order to put the poor under the management of the exchequer.
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The state of discipline recommended by Mr. Owen might be applicable enough to poor-houses; but it was by no mean's applicable to the feelings of a free nation? He did not stand there to oppose any benevolent scheme, but he felt it necessary to protest against parliament being made the tribunal for investigating every abstruse principle and every new scheme for remodelling the established order of society.
Sir W. De Crespignythought that the House was precisely the place for considering of any plan that might lead to the improvement of the people, and bore testimony to the prevalent good effects of Mr. Owen's establishment.
Mr. Humesaid, he had never heard a speech from the noble marquis in which he so entirely concurred. The very principle of this system went to take away from the people of this country all that independence and spirit which were among their noblest characteristics. He admitted the extraordinary regularity of habits and discipline which it was calculated to introduce among them; but that very regularity furnished one of the strongest objections against the system. If a man were not called upon, from the circumstances of his situation to think, he never would think; and thus, if Mr. Owen's system produced so much happiness with so little care, the adoption of it would make us a race of beings little removed from brutes, only ranging the four corners of a parallelogram, instead of the mazes of a forest. He could not, however, sit down without expressing the respect and admiration he felt for the virtues and the extensive benevolence of Mr. Owen.
Mr. F. Buxtonobserved, that there was hardly a remark which had fallen from the noble marquis with which he did not entirely concur; and on the other hand, there was scarcely one observation made by the hon. mover with which he did not absolutely disagree. He could not bring himself to believe that England would be able to find a remedy for all her distresses in the quadrangular paradises of Mr. Owen. There were reasons, however, which induced him to support the motion. He had inspected many of the work-, houses in this kingdom, and the result of his observations was, that those institutions were better adapted for promoting vice and misery than any other object. It was impossible for persons to visit our

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workhouses, and not to remark the squalid and unhealthy appearance of the children. Now, it appeared that nothing could surpass the condition of the children in Mr. Owen's establishment, in point of health, vivacity, and good conduct. In the hope that some improvement would be made in the regulation of our workhouses, if the motion were carried, he would vote for it.
Mr. Scarlettthought that the mode proposed was not the most expedient mode of inquiry. If any gentleman thought the principle good, perhaps the best way of proceeding would be to bring in a specific bill on the subject.
Mr. H. Gurneyobserved, that although he was opposed to the principle of Mr. Owen, which tended to destroy all individuality in the societies conducted on the plan of that gentleman, yet he thought he possessed claims to the favourable consideration of the House. There was one circumstance which he thought it necessary to allude to. In the district in which Mr. Owen's' establishment was situated, a peculiar degree of distress had existed which had not in any way affected his establishment. Now the plan of the individual who had thus been able to keep the population of his establishment free from distress, whilst all around him was misery, must possess some meri.
Mr. Wilberforcehad the highest opinion of the disinterested benevolence of Mr. Owen's views, but thought a commission quite unnecessary. Any four or five members who would take upon them to examine Mr. Owen's establishment, and put the result of that examination on paper, would receive full credit from the public. Thus, all useful information would be obtained without the danger of having it understood out of that House, that they took up the principle of Mr. Owen as a sort of panacea for the present distress.
Dr. Lushingtonconsidered the plan to be the most visionary, and the most impracticable he had ever met with. The praise-worthy exertions of Mr. Owen had made it succeed, on a small scale, with persons under his influence and control, but to attempt it on a general scale would, in his opinion, be utterly useless. That House had not now to learn from Mr. Owen that it was desirable the poor should support themselves by their own industry. He was delighted with the plan, which, according to Mr. Owen,
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went to demonstrate the means by which the poor might be not only enabled to support themselves, but rendered willing to do so. These were undoubtedly objects of great importance. But how were they to be obtained? Why, arrangements were to be made by which the people in these new communities were to meet at certain periods—were to be fed at certain hours like horses, and to be exercised at stated times. He perfectly agreed with the noble marquis that such a system was utterly unfit for the people of this country. To improve the morals of the people was very desirable; but he was not prepared to do so by the exclusion of all religion.
Mr. Canningsaid, that he had formed the highest opinion of the zeal, talents, and benevolent disposition of Mr. Owen. He had been unwilling, therefore, to do any thing that might hurt the feelings of that gentleman. Mr. Owen had, however, strongly urged him to attend; and he (Mr. C.) having given his word that he would attend, felt it necessary now to say, that after the most impartial consideration of the subject, he must decide against the motion. First, the general application of the plan, as had been well observed by the noble marquis, would lead to the complete destruction of individuality, and to the amalgamation of the population into masses, which was totally repugnant to the principles of human nature, and above all, to the genius of the people of this country. The inference which was drawn from the excellent management of Mr. Owen's establishment at Lanark, that it would be successful when acted upon on a more xtended scale, was, in his opinion, perfectly fallacious. Individuals must be congregated together upon some known and intelligible principle, It was a known principle which connected tenants with landlords, and workmen with manufacturers. But on what principle thousands of persons could be congregated together in Mr. Owen's establishments, he could not conceive. If a number of individuals should unite together as volunteers, supposing all the diffiulties opposed to such an undertaking by parochial regulations and other circumstances to be overcome, there was nothing to prevent the society, which, as it had commenced in delusion might end in disappointment, from becoming the seat of the worst of passions. He wished also to state, and he hoped he might do

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so without incurring the charge of bigotry, that the House ought to pause before it proceeded to set the example of a community existing in Christendom, in which there would be no religion. There had always existed an established religion, in heathen as well as Christian countries; and though he was not a man who would impose penalties on persons for dissenting from national religion, yet he thought it improper that parliament should be called upon to adopt all the peculiarities of an individual on such an important subject. He had not intended by any thing he had said, to discourage individuals from trying the plan of Mr. Owen, and afterwards bringing the result of their experiments before parliament. But he did think that on one trial, no man had a right to call upon the House to give its implied approbation and support to this system.
Mr. W. Smithsaid that, if the present question was for the adoption of Mr. Owen's plan, he would say, no; but at the same time he felt it necessary to vote for an inquiry into the nature of that system which was found to produce so much local advantage in the only part of the country in which it was tried.
Lord A. Hamiltoncontended, that Mr, Owen's plan included the strict observance of religious duties. He would support the motion for inquiry, without at all pledging himself to the details of the plan.
Mr. Maxwellsaid, it was not his intention to divide the House upon the question.
Mr. Broughamsaid, that if the hon. member had pressed the question to a division, he would have voted for the inquiry. He wished to correct a mistake into which some gentlemen had fallen with respect to Mr. Owen's plan. He could assure the House, that if any fault was to be found with the system pursued at Lanark, it was on the score of too much religion. He was aware that there could not be too great an observance of sound religious principles; but there were persons who complained that there was too much of the vehemence of religion practised at Mr. Owen's establishment.
The motion was negatived.

SLAVE TRADE.
Mr. Wilberforce,in rising to bring forward his motion on the subject of the Slave Trade, observed, that the situation in which he now stood was very different from that in which he was placed when he addressed the House upon
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this subject on former occasions. A considerable period had elapsed before the different interests of this country could be brought to favour the abolition of the trade. That great object was at length accomplished, and the whole voice of Great Britain was unanimously raised against it. Shortly after that determination came the bill of his hon. and learned friend (Mr. Brougham), which, by enacting a severe punishment of all those found engaged in this detestable trade, put the sincerity of the country beyond all doubt. It was proposed, that the measures adopted by this country for the abolition of the slave trade, during the war, should be followed up, on the arrival of peace, by the endeavours of our government to prevail upon foreign powers to carry into effect the principles which we had adopted. During the war we were the only carriers in Europe. The vessels of the other European nations navigated the ocean solely upon our permission. After the abolition of that detestable trade which had lasted for more than two centuries, we found that the African was not that degraded being which he was supposed to be; we found that he was a being possessing the same reasoning powers with ourselves; a being who, when his liberty and property were secured, was anxious to attach himself to habits of industry, and to form himself into a useful member of a peaceful community. Such was the state of the case when that struggle, in which the whole of the European powers were engaged, terminated in a peace. On the ratification of that peace the noble marquis opposite had used his utmost endeavours to induce the other great powers to co-operate with us in the abolition of the slave-trade. It was gratifying to find that the great powers in question had all expressed the same sentiments of disapprobation of this detestable traffic, and had also all expressed a wish that this scourge of the human race should be terminated. Spain and Portugal had hesitated most; but they at length joined in the same feeling, and the utmost which they pleaded for was, that a certain period should be allowed to the persons then engaged in the traffic. This country had, with a liberality highly to its honour, granted to Spain and Portugal a considerable sum as a remuneration for the losses sustained by those countries from the prosecution of our plan of abolishing the slave-trade. It was natural that we should now inquire into the result of

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the treaties into which we had entered with those countries. And here he felt it necessary to mention what had been done by the noble marquis, to whose labours and persevering ability the country was so much indebted on this occasion. The noble marquis had in all his negociations supported this cause with the greatest zeal and earnestness. Notwithstanding all the steps which had been taken, however, he was sorry to say that the slave-trade was still carried on to an immense extent, and in many instances with a degree of barbarity sufficient to exhaust human suffering on the one hand, and human cruelty On the other; and more than sufficient to justify all which had been said of it on former occasions.—The hon. member, after alluding to the conduct of the government of the Netherlands on this question, expressed a hope that that country, with which our interests were in a great measure bound up, would be induced to join us in our endeavours to protect so large a portion of our fellow-creatures. He trusted that Spain also would be induced to join us in this great work. He was the more inclined to entertain this hope, from a knowledge that there existed in that country a number of great and high-minded individuals who would be inclined to co-operate with us the moment that they felt the effects of living under a free constitution. From Portugal, also, he wished to entertain the same hope, but he was unfortunately forbidden to indulge that hope by the conduct of Portugal heretofore; that conduct having evinced the most decided disposition to pursue the traffic in slaves merely for the acquisition of gain. Whether the new institutions in that country would produce any change in the character of its government, or in its commercial system, upon this subject particularly, he could not pretend to say; but it would be strange indeed, if a country professing to sanction the principles of freedom and justice should tolerate the slave-trade—especially after governments upon the principle of arbitrary monarchy had decidedly declared against it. His wish was, that the several powers who had denounced this odious traffic, should appoint assessors to super-intend and cnsure the execution of their views, arid that Portugal should be peculiarly called upon to attend to this arrangement. It was gratifying to learn that America, which had derived great benefit from this traffic, had acted very differently from that of Portugal. As the
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Americans arose from the same source as ourselves, this indication of their character was a just cause of pride to Englishmen. But it was extraordinary that a nation so high spirited and chivalrous as France, had manifested quite a different feelings It was impossible, indeed, for any man acquainted with the character of the French, not to feel extremely disappointed at the disposition of that people to persevere in this odious traffic, after it was abandoned by England, and its nefarious practices were universally proclaimed; for these practices were such as to throw into the shade the utmost cruelties which sullied the French revolution; for while the latter might naturally be supposed to proceed from passions strongly excited, the former could have no other impulse than a cold, deliberate desire for gain.—Here the hon. member took a review of the case of the French ships engaged in the slave-trade, which were mentioned last night in the House of Lords, by lord Lansdown, and in which slaves were found stowed in casks, while others were thrown. overboard in casks, to avoid a search; remarking, in the most pathetic strain, upon the case of the slaves, and the crew; afflicted with ophthalmic. It was peculiarly revolting, he observed, that when this ophthalmic affliction was made known to the French government, the disease itself became the subject of mere medical, analysis, instead of provoking any inquiry as to the horrid cause of its existence. The most effectual guard against the continuance of the slave-trade would, he thought, be, to allow the mutual right of search, by officers of each nation; and to such an arrangement the French government would, he hoped, be easily reconciled; for the establishment of such a right could in no degree compromise its pride or consequence, especially where an officer on the part of each nation should be appointed to direct that search. The American legislature had, much to its honour, pronounced any ship of that nation engaged in the slave trade, guilty of piracy. It were to be wished that all governments should issue a similar decree, for the most vigorous measures were necessary to counteract the wide-spread evil of this traffic. There were some papers en the table which alleged the diminution of this trade, but those papers were contradictory in themselves, and therefore, by no means to be regarded as authority. This was the more evident upon

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looking to the representation of sir G. Collyer, who stated, that he saw 40 sail at the Havannah destined for the coast of Africa, at the very time to which some of those papers referred, and that, at the same period, there were 28 sail at Bonni waiting to take in cargoes of slaves. The facility of obtaining such cargoes, it was lamentable to say, was considerably increased by the measures of this country for the abolition of the slave trade; for, through those measures, the unfortunate natives of Africa were encouraged to collect in villages upon the banks of rivers and on the coast, from which they shrunk, while the ravages of the slave-trade were notoriously uninterrupted and openly pursued by British shipping. He could not help congratulating himself on the part which he had taken in rescuing this country from that abominable traffic. But although England, which had formerly prosecuted this trade with the greatest vigour, and which, had derived from it the greatest profit, had rescued itself from the disgraceful pursuit, the work of humanity and justice must still be incomplete while other nations were engaged in it. To induce those nations, then, to abandon that traffic, was a most desirable object. He imputed no lukewarmness or want of ability to his noble friend opposite. He was fully aware that his noble friend had great difficulties to encounter in the prejudices of foreign powers. The policy pursued by those powers was founded upon a mistaken sense of gain; mistaken, he called it, for the Great Disposer of events had ordained, that national gain could never be promoted by a violation of justice, and that the course prescribed by the principles of justice and humanity was also the course which was most consistent with commercial prosperity. The hon. member concluded with moving,
"That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, representing to his Majesty, That in the various documents relative to the Slave Trade, which, by his majesty's command, have been laid before the House, we find a renewed and most gratifying proof of the persevering solicitude with which his Majesty's government has laboured to meet the wishes of this House, and of the nation at large, by effecting the entire and universal abolition of that guilty traffic:—That we learn from them, however, with the deepest regret, that his Majesty's unwearied efforts to induce various powers to per-
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form their own solemn engagements have not been more successful:
"That, notwithstanding the deliberate denunciation by which the Slave Trade was branded with infamy at the Congress of Vienna, as a crime of the deepest eye, and notwithstanding the solemn determination there expressed by all the great powers of Europe, to put an end to so enormous an evil; nevertheless, that this trade is still carried on, to an extent scarcely ever before surpassed, by the subjects, and even under the flags, of some of the very powers which were parties to those declarations:—A Dispatch of a more encouraging tenor, from his Majesty's commissioner and the chief criminal judge at Sierra Leone, has indeed been very recently communicated to this House, but we have too-much reason to-fear that the hopes expressed in that communication are far too sanguine, and even the papers previously in our possession contain intelligence of a most painfully, opposite nature:
"That the Trade, faithful to its malignant character, is still productive of the same destructive effects as heretofore:—nay, though in the conduct of this detested traffic, every form of inhumanity might be supposed to have been already exhausted, yet of late it had been attended with unprecedented enormities:
"That we lament deeply our not having experienced the cordial co-operation which we might on every ground have so reasonably expected from the court of the Netherlands:—We have witnessed, however, with great satisfaction, the strenuous and able exertions with which the king's minister at that court has followed up the instructions of his Majesty's government, in contending for the just construction of our treaties with that power:—And we cannot but hope that commercial nation will feel the duty and necessity of adopting a policy more consonant at once to the principles of justice and humanity, and to the dearest obligations of good faith towards her most ancient and steady ally:
"That we have seen with extreme regret the Slave Trade carried on of late years by Spain to an extent before unparalleled; and, also, that the local government of the Havannah has shown an evident indiposition to employ the means recently stipulated for its repression; but the time haying at length arrived when Spain solemnly engaged that all Spanish

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slave trade should cease absolutely and for ever; that high-minded people, we cannot but feel confident, will prove faithful to their engagement, and will be induced cordially to unite with us in promoting the effectual and universal extinction of the Trade, by every civilized power:
"That we cannot contemplate the conduct of the court of Portugal, with respect to the Slave Trade without the deepest concern:—That court, indeed, though not calling in question the true nature and effects of the Slave Trade, forbore, even at Vienna, complying with the earnest, request of all the other European powers, that she would name some fixed period for the termination of the Trade:—Even the Treaty by which she engaged to abolish the Slave Trade to the North of the Line has been little regarded; and to this day, though every form of intreaty has been exhausted by the great European powers not the smallest hope is held out to us of the total abolition of the trade:—Under these circumstances, we cannot but think that both Great Britain, and the other powers assembled in Congress at Vienna, would not he faithful to their high obligations and engagements, if they were any longer to rest satisfied with mere intreaties and remonstrances, which experience compels us to believe would be of no effect; and we are necessarily led to revert to the suggestion which was countenanced by the high contracting powers at the Negotiation at Vienna, of excluding from commercial intercourse with their respective dominions, any state which should pertinaciously refuse to abolish the Slave Traded after it should have been prohibited by all other nations:—We are impelled, however, reluctantly to intreat his Majesty to endeavour to induce those powers to carry the above suggestion into effect, and at least to, prohibit the importation into their dominions of the produce of any colonies belonging to the Crown of Portugal, so long as she shall continue thus to set herself in direct opposition to the moral feelings and concurrent wishes of all the Christian powers, and to defeat every hope of the civilization and improvement of Africa:
"That we contemplate with far different feelings the conduct of the United States of America; not only have their cruizers been actively employed, in co-operation with our Own, in suppressing
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the Slave Trade on the coast of Africa, but an act has been passed by Congress, which places the Slave Trade in the list of piracies, and subjects to capital punishment all citizens of the United States who shall be found to engage in it; that in witnessing the conduct of the Legislature of the United States on this occasion, we are led to reflect with grateful exultation on our common origin, and on those common laws and institutions, whose liberal spirit has prompted our American brethren to be among the very foremost in thus stamping on a traffic in the persons of our fellow-creatures its just character and designation:—And we cannot but express our earnest hopes, that not only we ourselves shall speedily follow so honourable an example, but that the day is not far distant when, by the general concurrence of all civilized nations, this detestable traffic shall be pronounced to be piratical, to be an offence against all human kind,, which all are entitled and bound by duty to suppress:
"That from the gratifying contemplation of the zeal manifested by the United States, to promote the cause of humanity, we turn with feelings of the most painful disappointment to France, by some of whose subjects the Slave Trade has been for some time carried on to ah unprecedented extent, along the whole range of the Western Coast of Africa; and whose flag not only protects her own subjects in their criminal enterprizes, but serves to protect the subjects also of other powers, who engage in this commerce, but who are prevented by the vigilance of British cruizers from finding any shelter under the flags of their own countries:
"That we are bound by every consideration of duty and feeling to take an especial interest in the fate of those countries, now possessed by France on the African continent, which were restored to her dominion by Great Britain:—And we cannot reflect without the deepest pain, that whereas while under our protection; they not only enjoyed a temporary respite from their miseries, but were beginning to enjoy the security and comfort arising from the exercise of a peaceful industry, and of a legitimate commerce; the renewal of the Slave Trade, which almost immediately followed their cession to France, has utterly blasted these delightful prospects, and has again consigned those unhappy countries to rapine and anarchy, to barrenness and desolation;—

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That we cannot believe, if the opprobrious facts of the cases were fully known in France, that so great and gallant a people, blessed by the bounty of Providence with all that render a nation powerful and prosperous, would tolerate the prostitution of its flag to such base and flagitious purposes, or would stoop to take up and prosecute a traffic which so many other powers had indignantly abandoned on account of its incurable wickedness and cruelty:—more especially when its real nature and effects have, been unquestionably established; when the French legislature has decreed the entire abolition of the trade, and when their sovereign himself, under his own hand, has solemnly pledged himself to join with his Majesty in effecting the extinction of a traffic, which, to use his own emphatic language, 'tends to the destruction of mankind:'—That notwithstanding the sacred obligations thus contracted by France, so numerous and so flagrant have recently been the unpunished violations of her engagements, that, but for the confidence we wish, ever to repose in the upright intentions of those who administer her affairs, we should find it very difficult to believe that these violations could have taken place without their knowledge and connivance; and we must have been compelled to suspect, that some partial interests, or some mistaken Views of policy, had interfered to prevent the faithful performance of duties, to the fulfilment of which they are solemnly bound, not only by the most sacred obligations of religion and morality, but by the pledged faith of their government, and even by the personal honour of their sovereign:
"That we therefore entreat his Majesty seriously to represent to the, court of France, how deeply the credit and reputation of the French government are involved in these transactions, and. that his Majesty will be graciously pleased to renew the most earnest efforts, to induce them to make good their various solemn engagements on this subject, and in particular, to fulfil the promise recently given, to employ new and more efficient, restraints, and call into action fresh penal sanctions, in order effectually to prevent the carrying on, by French subjects, of this odious and disgraceful traffic:
"That while we thus entreat his Majesty to concert with other powers the, means of carrying into complete effect this great cause, we are not merely prompted
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by a sense of what is due to the general obligations of justice, and humanity:—we cannot but feel that to Africa we owe a debt which conscience and honour oblige us to repay:—And though we cangratulate his Majesty on the generous zeal, which Great Britain has manifested, and the costly sacrifices she has made, in vindicating in this instance the rights and happiness of our fellow-creatures, yet we cannot reflect without remorse that we ourselves were too long among the very foremost in carrying on this guilty commerce:
"Since we are now aware, of its real character, it becomes us to be earnest and incessant in our endeavours to impress the truth on others who may have been misled by our example:—And as we contributed so largely to prolong the misery and barbarism of the Africans, we should now be proportionally earnest in using the means with which Providence has endowed us, for promoting their civilization and happiness."
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid, that in common with the House, he always listened with the greatest pleasure to every speech of his hon. friend, especially, upon that great question of which he was the parent, and which, by his, benevolent and persevering exertions, he had brought to a successful issue. He could assure his hon. friend, that he had heard him with the greater satisfaction, because he observed, that while, his hon. friend endeavoured to rouse the feelings of the House and of foreign powers in the common cause of humanity, he did not omit to remind the House that it was long, before even this moral and Christian nation felt the full objections to the traffic in slaves, and could wind itself up to use the necessary exertions for its abolition. While his hon. friend, therefore, was pressing his majesty's government to make this appeal to foreign powers, he must feel that they could not be at once awakened to that state of moral feeling which we, had ourselves attained only by slow degrees. With regard to the address, it was impossible that the House should not observe that many passages in it conveyed very strong and pointed reproaches upon the conduct of foreign governments. He had no, hesitation in saying, that if he looked to the question merely in a political point of view, and with reference to the state of responsibility in which it was calculated, to place him, he should feel

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himself bound to object to many parts of the address, and to modify many of its expressions. He trusted, however, that if he yielded to the proposition of his hon. friend, his motives would not be misunderstood abroad. It was right that foreign powers should know how the country and parliament fe1t with regard to this great question. He believed it would be impose sidle to give final and decisive success to the great work of humanity, unless foreign powers could be brought to agree upon a common system of punishment as applied to this offence. His hon. friend was much mistaken, if he supposed that the principal difficulties in effecting this desirable object arose from absolute, and not from free and representative governments. On the contrary, the American, government, though he was ready to admit that it acted upon liberal and enlightened principles with regard to the general question, was still, of all other governments, the most opposed to a qualified system of common search. With regard to the two representative governments of Spain and France, though the slave-trade had been abolished in Spain, the colonial interests had sufficient influence in the Cortes to procure the rejection of a proposition for increasing the severity of the penalties. In France, the dealing in Slaves was no crime by the existing laws; it was merely a civil offence, punishable by fine and confiscation of the property embarked in it, and the efforts of the French government had not yet been able to overcome the national prejudices so far as to render it a criminal offence. With regard to Portugal, he was compelled to observe, that that government formed an inglorious exception to the rest of Europe, and that it felt no disposition whatever to abolish the traffic in slaves. The Brasilians were as much persuaded that the abolition of the slave-trade would be attended with the most ruinous consequences to themselves, as our colonists in the West Indies were ten years before his hon. friend carried his bill. Though he objected to many parts of the address as a diplomatic instrument, he was ready to support it as a moral appeal to the foreign powers, animating them to rouse the moral energies of their people to an active and cordial co-operation with this country in the great work of humanity.
Sir James Mackintoshsaid, that his chief reasons for troubling the House was, to embrace the opportunity which the
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address was intended to afford to every member of delivering his sentiments in accordance with it, in order that the unanimous voice of parliament, speaking the Unanimous sense of the people might produce a due impression on the continent of Europe. It was only by reiterated appeals to the feelings and consciences of nations that any hope could be entertained of the final abolition of a system that disgraced the name of trade. He did not intend to discuss, whether concession was more likely to be obtained from free or from absolute governments: he well knew that vulgar notions often found their Way among representative bodies; for a vulgar notion upon this very subject had long withstood the united argument and eloquence of many of the great men of the last Century. He laid out of the question what had been done by powers in the north of Europe, because where there was no interest, there was nothing to relinquish: but looking at others, he could not perceive, that in any representative government the sense of the people had been the true obstacle to concession by the authorities. The noble lord had called Portugal an inglorious, but he (sir J. M.) termed her an infamous exception, to the liberal spirit of other nations. The independent provinces of Spain in South America were governed by representative bodies, yet in all of them the slave-trade had been abolished. Portugal alone opposed the civilization and liberty of mankind: she was as singular in her practice among the states of South America as she was singular in her principles among the powers of Europe. Her conduct had been base and shameless; it admitted of no excuse; and when the noble lord talked of the commotions that threatened her, it ought not to be forgotten that five years ago, after the Congress of Vienna, she had none, of them* t6 dread; yet then she had opposed to the abolition a resistance as obstinate as it was senseless. In 1810, five years before the Congress and the condemnation of the traffic, Portugal had entered into a positive treaty with this country regarding the slave-trade; yet, with this atrocious aggravation peculiar to her, she still refused to carry it into effect. Recollecting all these circumstances, he could not help saying that Portugal had proclaimed herself an outlaw in the community of civilized nations, refusing to pay to humanity even that tribute which hypocrisy was said to

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pay to virtue. The noble marquis had said, that our own conduct with regard to the abolition ought to teach us forbearance in the delays of other nations. He admitted the fact. But the noble lord stood on higher ground when he called upon other nations now to relinquish this traffic, than we occupied when we interposed delay, and yielded for a time to obstacles which all the zeal and exertions of his hon. friend were unable immediately to remove. When his hon. friend began his labours, it was alleged that our West India plantations could not be cultivated without new importations of slaves; that our colonial prosperity depended on our traffic in human blood. Now we had experience in favour of the abolition; we had given up the slave trade, and we had not been ruined. This foreign nations might see. They could observe that we had not suffered by the cessation of a traffic, which was said to be essential to our colonial existence. The noble marquis had stated, as one of the reasons why we should address ourselves with temper to the other nations concerned in this traffic, that having been convinced of its wickedness and impolicy ourselves, we were making an appeal to them, and calling upon them to adopt our opinions; but in making this apology for these powers, the noble lord had weakened his own cause. We did not call upon them to adopt our opinions but to fulfil their own engagements. The noble marquis had stated, with truth, that in France the slave trade was not prohibited by its criminal code; but was it not monstrous to think, that after six years' delay, after declarations of the wickedness and barbarity of the traffic, the carrying of it on was not declared a crime and rendered liable to punishment? Could the government of France plead the reluctance of the people to any penal statute upon the subject? It might be seen by all who read the debates of the French chambers, and particularly by those who had perused the speech of an old friend of his, M. La Fayette, that those who generally opposed the government would zealously join in supporting a law for punishing slave-dealers. Until he saw the trial made, he would hold it to be a calumny against the French legislature, a calumny against the French nation, to say that they would cover with impunity so criminal a traffic. He would rather believe, that the fault lay in the insincerity of the government. How could any one trust
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in its good faith on this subject, after what had recently happened? Had they tried the captain of the Rodeur? There might be no criminal law in France to punish slave trading, but was there no law against murder? Was ever any picture of cruelty and misery drawn more appalling than that which the Rodeur presented—a scene worthy of the sublime and terrible genius of Dante to describer—a scene which was not exceeded in horror by any of his, descriptions of those regions where the perpetrators of such enormities must be punished? It were to be wished that a sublime living genius of our own country, who inherited the power, and now resided in the land of the great Italian poet, would paint in becoming colours such enormities, and hold up this horrible traffic to the execration of mankind. The House had no doubt read the accounts on the table transmitted by that meritorious officer, sir G, Collier. He stated that in the course of one year 60,000 persons had been carried into slavery from the coast of Africa, and that a great proportion of this number were exported in French ships. Was not this fact known to the French government, and if it was known, why did it take no step to bring these monsters to justice, who were thus vomited forth to pollute and desolate the soil of Africa? The United States of America had done that without treaty or stipulation, which the powers of Europe had neglected to do, in contravention of their most solemn engagements. He rejoiced to find that two nations of English, blood, allied by religion and liberty, had been the first to place in their criminal code this enormity. Though separated in government, they showed themselves still united in the principles of freedom and humanity, by abolishing the trade in the same year, and by since both declaring it piracy. He could not observe without indignation on the base pretext set up by Portugal, that the cruelty of the trade was diminished, with her, as she merely sent slaves from her possessions in the east, to Brazil. While he was in India he had had an opportunity of knowing the kind of humanity thus exercised on board Portuguese slave vessels. He had, in his capacity of judge, condemned two of these ships, and he could say, that nothing could be more false than these pretensions to humanity. With the conduct of that state which called itself Christian because it was bigotted, and civilized because it had acquired the power to op-

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press, he could honourably contrast the behaviour of the Mahometan governments in India, and on the island of Madagascar, which had kept their engagements and abolished the trade: and here he must pay a due tribute of praise to marquis Wellesley, who had first carried into effect the abolition in our Indian dominions, with that elevation of mind and comprehensiveness of view which he brought to all of his measures, though of some of them he could not altogether approve. The motion of his hon. friend suggested the question of the possibility of ultimately abolishing the traffic. Some persons not favourable to the abolition were of opinion that it could not be extirpated by all our sacrifices and exertions; while the progress of the work seemed slow and irregular to the benevolent impatience of good men. Compared, indeed, with the life of man, its progress was slow; but not so when compared with the great instances of human improvement found in history. Every one must allow that much had already been done, who considered that all Europe had solemnly pronounced against it; that England and America had declared it piracy; and that those who now carried it on were obliged to cover their actions under some mean and hypocritical pretence. When he reflected on these things, he did not despair. He had lived long enough to have heard his hon. friend and those who acted with him, denounced as jacobins, and accused of the most dangerous purposes, for merely exerting themselves to procure the abolition of that traffic which was now called a crime in our Statute book. He did not then despair. He believed that the principle of reformation in this country of reason and liberty, where opinions were free, and discussion permitted, would always ultimately triumph, and that from this country it would spread to others. There was enough of difficulty to excite our vigilance, and call for our exertion; to induce us to make frequent appeals to the public opinion of nations, and the reason and conscience of sovereigns. Our efforts would in time diffuse public opinion over Europe, and abolish this nefarious traffic, leaving no trace of it but the abhorrence which its recollection might excite.
Dr. Lushingtonsaid, that America had not done enough by passing one act. The making of slave-dealing piracy would not prevent it, unless a sufficient number of cruisers were kept along the coast of Africa, to enforce the penalty.
Mr. Bernalstated, that it had cost us a million of money to prevail upon Portugal by stipulations not to trade north of the line; yet those stipulations had been violated.
Mr. Marryatsaid, that the learned member for Knaresborough had been mistaken in stating, on a former occasion, that slaves were treated better in the East than in. the West Indies, and cited passages from Dr. Buchanan's book in support of his statement: he also animadverted, on the difficulties, thrown in the way of the question itself by the emperor of Russia, who bad given the monopoly of supplying his dominions with sugar to Portugal and Spain, on account of our duties imposed upon foreign linen. He thought the powers favourable to the abolition ought to join in the prohibition of the consumption of Portuguese commodities.
Mr. Gurneyasked whether there was; any thing in the motion which pledged the House to support measures of hostility against those countries who refused to comply with the terms of the motion?
Mr. Broughamreplied in the negative, and with respect to the question, observed; that although America had done much to put down the slave-trade by her act of abolition, and by declaring the traffic piracy, yet until the right of reciprocal search was allowed, her efforts could not be complete. This, right of search, had acquired an ill-name by circumstances of the last war, but as we now offered a present equivalent to America for what she could give up, and not any thing future and contingent, as when one was belligerent and the other neutral; he trusted the difficulty would be soon obviated.
The Address was agreed to nem. con.

CHIEF BARON O'GRADY.
The marquis of Londonderry moved that the ninth Report of the Commission of Inquiry into Courts of Justice in Ireland, together with the Answer of the Chief Baron of the Exchequer thereto, be referred to a Select Committee. Mr. S. Rice concurred in the motion. Mr. O'Grady cheerfully acquiesced in the motion, convinced as he was that the more light was thrown on the subject, the more would the result appear what he wished it to be. A Committee was accordingly appointed.

NEW STAMP-OFFICE IN EDINBURGH.
Mr. Humecalled the attention of the

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House to an instance of disregard to the public business on the part of government. A new Stamp-office being wanted, a gentleman was appointed to search for a convenient building. Such a place was accordingly found; but ministers, in order to favour an individual, had, not withstanding the recommendations of the hoard of Stamps and the board of Works in its favuur, decided on building a new office in a less appropriate situation, with fewer conveniences and at a greater expense. To him this appeared one of the grossest jobs that had ever come within his recollection. The only person that had in the first instance recommended the situation preferred, was a grocer of the name of Johnson; but the work having been begun early in 1818, in 1819 lord Melville had examined it, and pronounced the building to be suitable. The work had also been examined by the lord advocate, and on the opinions of lord Melville, the lord advocate, and Johnson the grocer, it had been carried on^ in opposition to the recommendation of the board of Stamps. He took occasion to notice another instance of negligence on the part of government. The revenue of Scotland, amounting, to 3,000,000 l., had been transmitted to this country by certain bankers, at forty days. A friend of his had offered to transmit it at twenty, and to give exchequer bills in advance, or any security that might be required. This, however, had not been attended to, and the others having come down to thirty days, the chancellor of the exchequer had left the business in their hands, and thus a loss was sustained by the country. The House first offered for a Stamp-office had a hundred feet of ground belonging to if. The spot finally chosen had not a foot of ground belonging to it behind the building, and it was liable to be built close up. To prevent this he understood a 1,000 guineas had recently been paid. An hon. baronet had engaged to purchase the ground for a much smaller sum; but he understood the chancellor of the Exchequer, with much good nature towards him, but with little regard for the public purse, had consented to let him off, and had not held him to his agreement. The building had cost 9,100 l., and the total expense was upwards of 12,000 l., the hon. member concluded by moving a resolution detailing the principal facts to which he had referred, and condemning the whole of the transaction.
Sir J. Marjoribanksexplained the cir-
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cumstances connected with his purchase of the ground on which the Stamp-office had been built, and his offer-of the same to government. He had recommended the builder to submit an offer to ministers, and had offered to be his security. The situation, he contended, was in various respects more eligible than any other that had been offered. Adverting to what had been said of the allowances to Scotch bankers for transmitting, the revenue, he traced the circumstances under which the existing arrangement had been formed, and gave it as his Opinion, that they did not profit by it.
After a short conversation, the motion was negatived.

MR. THEODORE HOOK.
Mr. Bennetsaid, he rose to move for the production of certain papers containing an account of the suspension of Mr. Theodore Hook from his office of treasurer in the Mauritius; and of the sums of money due by him to the government of that colony. It might be in the recollection of the House, that about 17 or 18 months ago, he had put a question to an hon. gentleman opposite respecting the transaction which he had just alluded to. The answer given upon that occasion was, that ministers had received no official information on the subject, but they knew that Mr. Theodore Hook had arrived in this country. He had repeated the question this year; possessing, however, at the time, no information on the subject to which it referred. He had since obtained some information, the nature of which he would state to the House. He had reason to believe that the information was strictly correct. He would not now mention the name of the gentleman from whom he had received his information, but would reserve to himself the privilege of doing so, if he thought fit before the discussion terminated. It appeared from the facts which had been laid before him that on the 15th; of January, 1818, the acting governor of the Mauritius, governor Hall, received a letter from Mr. Allan, one of the confidential clerks of the treasury of the colony, informing him that Mr. Hook had appropriated to himself a part of the allowances for the expenses of his department, by appointing his own coachman to the situation of office-keeper, at a salary of 40 dollars a month, and his cook to another situation with a salary of 15 s. Mr. Allan who was the master clerk of the treasury, also re-

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ported to the governor, that Mr. Hook had appropriated The himself the sum of 39,150 dollars. The governor replied to Mr. Allan, by a letter dated the 25th of January, 1818, in which he stated, that it was a subject which could not be kept secret, and therefore he would send his letter to Mr. Hook, to whom it referred. The governor afterwards received another letter from Mr. Allan, in which he stated that Mr. Hook has given him the letter which he had written to the governor, and bad accompanied it with his dismissal from the office he held, and declaring that he Allah was ruined forever. The governor next received a letter from a Mr. M'Manus, who informed him that Allan had been desired to quit the colony by Mr. Hook, who pretended that the governor had authorized him to give that order. The governor, however, in a letter to Mr. Allan, denied that he had issued such directions, and desired him to remain. Mr. Allan again wrote, requesting that some inquiry might be instituted, and that in the meantime the stamps and other official documents might not be altered. He had not seen this letter, but he was informed that it showed the mind of the writer to have been in a state of extreme anxiety. In consequence of this letter, the governor, on the 9th of February, appointed a committee, consisting of his chief secretary, the auditor, and his deputy, to examine the accounts. The result of this inquiry was, that all the statements of Allan were found to be correct. This unfortunate individual did not, however, long survive the ill usage which he had received. He died before the report was made by which his character for truth and integrity was established, and the accuracy of the information he had given incontestably proved. In consequence of the nature of the report made by the committee, governor Hall suspended Mr. Hook from his office, and being of opinion that he could not be tried for his offence in the colony, he sent him to England. When Mr. Hook arrived in this country he was, he supposed, dismissed; but he did not know any thing certain on this point. He wished now to know what portion, if any, of the money due by Mr. Hook, the government had received. It appeared from a regular official document, signed Thomas Webster, 8th of December 1818, that the accounts of Mr. Hook's office stood as follows:—The debtor side amounted to 63,865 dollars, and the cre-
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ditor side to 24,132 dollars, leaving a deficiency of 39,733 dollars. This being the case, he thought that the House should possess some authentic information on this subject, and, to obtain it was the object of his motion. Before he sat down, however, he wished to ask the right hon. gentleman opposite, whether Mr. Hook had given any sureties for his conduct. If Mr. Hook had given sureties, he supposed that government would be entitled to call upon them to make good, the deficiency.
Mr. Goulburnthought that the House would not be acting justly, if it acceded to the motion of the hon. gentleman. Whatever might be the demerits of the individual whose conduct was now brought under consideration, he was still entitled, in common with every other person labouring under a charge, to a fair measure of justice. He could have no objection to the production of the despatch moved for, were it not for the reasons which he would briefly state. The case of Mr. Hook involved a question of considerable importance. When the dispatch which contained the substance of what had been stated by the hon. member was received in this country, it was thought fit to refer it to the Colonial Audit-board, in order that the accounts might be examined. The governor of the Mauritius had confined himself to sending Mr. Hook to this country, together with his papers. When Mr. Hook arrived, which he did in the character of a prisoner, and accompanied by other persons who were to be tried for offences committed at the Mauritius, application was made to the law officers of the Crown, to know whether the government would be justified in detaining him, and whether the circumstances of the case were of such a nature, as to authorize the institution of a criminal proceeding against him? The law officers of the Crown were of opinion that government possessed no legal power to detain Mr. Hook a prisoner, and that a criminal information could not be supported on the facts laid before them. Under these circumstances, no other course could be taken than to leave the Audit board to proceed with the examination of the accounts, and to endeavour to obtain fresh information from the Mauritius. Mr. Hook, was at this moment under examination by the Board of Audit; and a fresh case had been submitted to the law officers of the Crown, to ascertain whether he could now be prosecuted criminally.
The motion was then withdrawn.