Commons Sitting of 24 April 1817

INDISPOSITION OF THE SPEAKER.
The House being met, pursuant to adjournment,
The Speakeraddressed the House to the following purport:—"In returning to the chair, I have to express to the House my most grateful acknowledgments for their indulgent consideration during my late indisposition. I beg leave to assure the House that I feel most deeply the favourable acceptance which my humble endeavours to discharge my duty in this chair have experienced from them. With respect to the arrear of business which has been occasioned by the late unfortunate interruption, I have to propose to

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the House, first, that all committees should be revived; and, secondly, to extend the time for receiving the reports of private bills, from Monday, the 12th of May to another week; namely, to Monday the 19th of May. As to public business, the course will be, at the proper hour, for the clerk to read over the dropped orders and notices; of which the House will dispose as it may suit their own convenience."
The question was then put, That the time for receiving the reports of private bills be extended to the 19th of May, and agreed to.

PETITIONS RELATING TO REFORM, &c.
Mr. Bennetpresented a petition from the traders, manufacturers, and mechanics of Wolverhampton, praying for a diminution of the present enormous rate of taxation, and a reduction of the expenditure. It was signed by upwards of 5,000 individuals, and stated, that, in that district, many had been reduced to extreme poverty, and others had actually perished for want of food. Perhaps in no district had the pressure of public calamity been more severely felt; for to such a miserable situation were the petitioners reduced, that they actually implored the House to afford them the means of leaving the country, and finding employment in some more favourable realm, where they might find employment different from that suggested by a noble lord whom he did not now see in his place, viz. digging holes in the earth, and filling them up again.
Mr. E. Littletonsaid, he was informed by letters from some respectable gentlemen near that district, that the petition did not contain the sentiments of the inhabitants of that town, but had been signed by persons in no respect connected with it, and that there was actually a person who was employed to sign it for those who could not write.
Mr. Bennetobserved, that he never meant to say that it was the petition of any other persons than those who had signed it.
Ordered to lie on the table.
Sir W. Lemonpresented a petition from Cornwall, complaining of the bills lately passed, and of the conduct of the noble secretary of state for the home department, in neglecting to present in due time, and in mislaying, an address of the county to the Prince Regent, voted in
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December last; praying that he would call together his parliament, and recommend to it measures of retrenchment. It stated, that an address had been voted by the county to the Prince Regent, in last December, which was transmitted to the office of lord Sidmouth. No answer was received, nor any intimation that the petition was presented. When inquiry was made into this circumstance of neglect, the high sheriff was answered, that the address had been mislaid, and could not be found. The petitioners complained of this instance of neglect, and prayed for such satisfaction as it might be in the power of the House to grant.
Mr. Bathurstrose to explain the seeming neglect complained of in the petition. On the 19th of December it was found, upon inquiry, that the address was mislaid. A letter was written on the 20th of December to the high sheriff, mentioning the circumstance, and asking for an authenticated copy, that it might be presented without delay. Having received no answer from the sheriff, the secretary of state wrote to a private gentleman of the county for an authenticated copy, which was soon received and laid before his royal highness. On the 20th of January the original was found, and was likewise laid before his royal highness. These circumstances should have been stated in the present petition, as they were known to the parties; and if they had been stated, would have removed the grounds of the complaint.
Mr. Tremayneacquitted the noble lord at the head of the home department of any neglect in the affair.
Ordered to lie on the table.

REGISTRY OF FREEHOLDS IN LIMERICK.
Sir J. Newportpresented a Petition from certain inhabitants of the city of Limerick, complaining that they were under the hardship of being obliged to register their freeholds, or be deprived of the privilege of voting at elections of members to that House. It was notorious that the magistrates in that city were completely in the interest of one of the parties, and that even a half hour was refused to those who came to register their freeholds, except they were the friends of that individual whose claims to be elected were sanctioned by the magistracy. The magistrates had no power by law to enforce this registry, but they nevertheless did it, and therefore electors had no alternative but

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to do so, or lose their privilege of voting. The petitioners were fully prepared to prove these facts at the bar. The House would at once see that if magistrates were allowed to exercise such arbitrary power, there was a door opened to every violation of the rights of the subject, and he therefore trusted they would not allow such a glaring abuse to pass unnoticed.
Ordered to lie on the table.

ISSUE OF EXCHEQUER BILLS FOR PURPOSES OF LOCAL AND TEMPORARY RELIEF.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerrose to call the attention of the House to a motion he intended to submit to their consideration on Monday, and which at this moment was particularly interesting to the country. Aware that the mere notice of that motion, without any introductory remarks, might excite some alarm, he felt himself bound to give a general account of what he intended that day. On Monday next it was his intention to move that in a committee of the whole House, his majesty shall, by a resolution of the committee, be authorized to issue exchequer bills to a certain amount, for the relief of the public distress, on security being given. This motion was intended for the relief of the labouring poor. He should propose, that the money be allotted partly to corporations to enable them to employ labourers in finishing public works, and in this instance security would be required for the repayment of the money in a given time. Other parts of the money would be given to parishes and associated bodies, on securities being given on the parish rates, and also by individuals. It was not meant however, that such money should be employed in what might abstractly be called distress, for the great object his majesty's ministers had in view, was the finding of employment for the poor, which indeed was the most rational and satisfactory way of giving relief. In order to prevent any unnecessary alarm, the sum he meant to propose would be between one and two millions, and he thought this could be no inconvenience to the money market. The right hon. gentleman concluded by giving notice, that he should on Monday move for the House to resolve itself into a committee, to consider of enabling his majesty to authorize the issue of Exchequer Bills to an amount to be limited, for purposes of local and temporary relief, upon due security given; the Prince Regent's recommendation being signified.
The Hon. W. Lambsaid, he would not enter into the details of the plan, as they were not yet before the House; nor would he attempt to decide upon the effect it would produce on the money-market; but there was one point of view in which it deserved the most serious consideration, and that was, whether it was to be considered as a means of temporary relief, or a substitute for all those other measures which were rendered necessary for remedying the evils which had arisen out of the system under which we had been so long acting. He hoped this plan of the right hon. gentleman was not the only one. He did not deny the propriety of this step, but he would protest against any reliance on its sufficiency. The subject was now pressed upon us by necessity; we saw the calamity under which the country laboured we should not rest satisfied with palliatives, but should go at once to the root of the evil, and endeavour permanently to counteract its malignity, rather than apply temporary remedies.
Mr. Broughamprofessed himself desirous to abstain from all discussion of the measure. He wished, however, that the chancellor of the exchequer would take one thing into consideration before he attempted to carry it through the House. As far as he understood him, his object was to grant an issue of exchequer bills to corporations or associations for the relief of the poor on their securities, recommending them to employ the poor in public works. With respect to bodies corporate he would say nothing, nor would he give any opinion about the propriety of the advance to them. He, however, entreated the chancellor of the exchequer to consider what would be the effect of placing such means of relief, at the disposal of associations of private gentlemen, at the same time requiring from them such securities as may be necessary to protect the public interest. The measure would place those gentlemen in the most delicate and embarrassing situation with regard to their poorer neighbours. As soon as any of the suffering poor began to reflect on their relation to the more wealthy, and saw that they procured no relief from them. Would they not say, "government has placed the means of assistance within your reach, and we are starving, because you are so hardhearted as to refuse your securities for advances that might relieve us, without injury to yourselves?" If they came forward on this remonstrance, they would render them-

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selves liable to the process of extent; if they did not so expose their property, they would render every poor unemployed man their personal enemy. He did not deny that this objection mightbe answered, but he threw it out for the attentive consideration of the right hon. gentleman.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerobserved, that one object of the plan was, to advance money to associations of individuals, and another to make these advances to public bodies. It was not intended that they should be made to single individuals for any purpose connected with the measure in question. The first object would embrace the support and encouragement of public works under certain limitations, and upon full security for the repayment of the money; the persons furnishing that security to take a counter-security upon the parochial funds.
Mr. Broughamsaid, he had accurately understood the right hon. gentleman. The persons to whom any advance of the public money should be made, would clearly render themselves liable to an extent whilst the parish funds might or might not be solvent.
Mr. Lytteltonapprehended, that very great difficulties would present themselves in carrying the proposed measure into effect. In the district with which he was best acquainted, the security of the poor-rates would be no security at all. He thought Monday was too early a day for entering upon the discussion of this question, as it was important to make various inquiries previously in many parts of the country.
Mr. Ponsonbysaid, it appeared that those to whom advances were to be made, were by the proposed measure to become liable to exchequer process, with no indemnity but the poor-rates. He thought some farther delay was absolutely necessary before the House decided on so new and important a subject.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerintimated, that he was desirous of laying his statement as early as possible before the House; after which, some future day might be appointed for taking it into consideration.