Commons Sitting of 11 May 1815

EXCHEQUER BILLS.
The report of the Committee of Ways and Means being brought up, the first Resolution was agreed to.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that as to the second Resolution, which respected Exchequer bills, he should move that it be re-committed, in order to make an alteration in the form of it, as it appeared that the old subscribers, who were allowed to subscribe to the amount of 80 per cent, on their former subscriptions, had not come forward with subscriptions enough to fill up the whole sum which it was intended to raise.
Mr. Tierneysaid, that in consequence of the change in the mind of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the short space of two hours on Monday morning, several persons had been losers to a considerable extent. The right hon. gentleman had at first sent a letter to the city, in which it was said that Exchequer bills only would be received in the hew subscriptions; in consequence of which Exchequer bills rose 7 and 8, and even 10 shillings. Shortly, after, however, a new letter was sent, in which it was said that Exchequer bills were not at all necessary. The consequence was, that Exchequer bills fell as much as they had before
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risen, and the purchasers had thus incurred a heavy loss.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that he had been induced to make the change in consequence of a representation that the subscription would not be filled up under the former plan. The purchasers of Exchequer bills would not be losers, as the original subscribers would still be at liberty, as before, to set down their names to the amount of 80 per cent, on their former subscriptions.
The Resolution was ordered to be recommitted to-morrow week.

ROMAN CATHOLIC PETITION.
Sir Henry Parnellsaid:—Sir; I hold in my hand a Petition from the Roman Catholics of Ireland. The gentlemen who intrusted it to my care have informed me, that the Roman Catholics are particularly anxious that the merits of their claims should be taken into consideration during the present session. I think it proper, therefore, to give notice, that I shall move, on this day fortnight, that the House do form itself into a committee, to take into consideration the laws affecting the Roman Catholics. Prior to that period, if the courtesy of the House will allow me, I shall submit certain Resolutions, containing the full extent of the claims of the Catholic body. I do not mean to introduce them for the purpose of provoking a premature discussion; but from a desire to pot the House in possession of every thing relating to those claims. I shall afterwards more the Resolutions in the committee, if it be conceded. At present I shall merely move, "That the Petition be now read."
Mr. Tierney—If I understand the hon. baronet, he has mentioned, that claims of a definitive nature will be submitted to the House, in formal resolutions, if the committee be granted. Now, I wish to know whether those resolutions speak the sense of the whole Catholic body, or only of at part of it? And if the latter be the case of what portion does it speak the sentiments?
Sir Henry Parnell.—I can answer the questions of the right hon. gentleman, I think satisfactorily. This is the petition of certain Roman Catholics of Ireland, whose signatures are affixed thereto, on behalf of themselves and the Catholic body of Ireland. It comes exactly from the same description of persons with whom the other petitions, on the same subjects

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which have been discussed by the House, originated: and, as far as that opinion can be expressed, under the existing restraint which the law puts on them, and which prevents them from sending delegates to meetings, it does express the sense of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. With respect to the extent of unanimity which the sentiments contained in the resolutions meet with, I can state, from communications I have had on the subject, that they speak the correct and unequivocal opinion of the mass of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. With regard to the claims of the Catholics, and the propriety of laying those claims before the House, in the shape of Resolutions, before the main discussion came on, the reason is this—it appears to be very desirable, that, in entering on a new discussion of the Petition of the Catholic body, the House should be put in possession—and, as far as is practicable, they ought to be put hi exact possession—of all that the Roman Catholics require from the House. I have it in my power to state decidedly to the House, that I shall submit to them resolutions, that express correctly the opinion of the Catholic body, with respect to the extent of their claims; so that if the House accede to what is contained in those Resolutions, they will give perfect satisfaction to that great body of their fellow-subjects.
The Petition was then brought up and read; setting forth, "That the petitioners are excluded from the enjoyment of the free constitution of these realms, and are subjected to the endurance of such exclusion not on account of any imputed deficiency of disposition or of ability in the service of the Crown or support of the State, but solely on account of their conscientious adherence to that religion which was professed by those princes and patriots of Great Britain who originated and matured her justly-boasted constitution; and that the petitioners again implore the House to grant to them the redress of the oppressive grievances of which they so justly complain, and to restore them to the full and unrestricted enjoyment of the rank of free subjects of the empire." On the motion, that the Petition do lie on the table,
Sir J. C Hippisleyobserved, that he should be very ready to enter into an adequate investigation of the claims of so considerable a body as the Catholics of Ireland, as far as could tend to the fulfil-
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ment of the resolution of the House in a former session, that of a conciliatory adjustment which might be conducive to the strength and peace of the kingdom, to the stability of the Protestant establishment, and to the general satisfaction and concord of all classes of his Majesty's subjects: but he thought it incumbent upon him, at the same time, thus early to declare, that he should oppose the claims, such as announced in the petition, of unqualified concession.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. Bankesgave notice that he should to-morrow move that the House be called over on this day fortnight, as every one must be of opinion that on such an important question as would then come on, a full attendance was requisite.
Sir H. Parnellgave notice, that he should on this day week move the resolutions pro forma, and that on this day fortnight he should move that the House should resolve itself into a committee on the laws affecting his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects.
Mr. Bankessaid he did not hold himself bound to give his assent to the previous stage which had been given notice of by the hon. baronet, as the case was not one in which the House was ignorant of what it was required (as the hon. baronet had termed it) they should do. He felt it his duty to resist, on every opportunity, the claims of the petitioners, if they insisted on them in their full extent.

FREEMEN'S ELECTION RIGHTS BILL.
Mr. Lockhart,according to notice, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the right of freemen and burgesses to vote at elections of members to serve in parliament. He observed that the object of the measure which he had to propose was to oblige freemen to take out their freedom a certain short time before they could vote. Such a measure was called for by the great number of persons who took an opportunity to become freemen of boroughs immediately before a contested election, whereby the expense of those contests was increased to an extravagant amounts. Whether the period was three months, one month, or even a fortnight, it would answer the purpose which he had in view.
Mr. Tierneysaid the proposed measure being one which would deprive persons who had a perfect right from exercising it

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during a certain time, was such a partial disfranchisement that could not be justifiable unless a strong case were made out.
Mr. Rosesaid a faw words in favour of the measure.
Mr. Wetherellthought the Bill could not be rendered justifiable by any particular case of inconvenience.
Sir M. W. Ridleydisapproved of the measure.
Mr. Calcraftsaid, that the Bill would disfranchise many of his constituents, and other voters, who were sea-faring men, and therefore had often no opportunity to take out their freedom before the time of election, although on that account there could be no reasonable objection to their votes.
Mr. Wynngave no opinion on the measure before the House, but thought that the great source of the expense and criminality at contested elections, arose from the non-resident voters, with respect to whom some measure should be adopted.
Sir J. Newportthought some measure was necessary to put it out of the power of the mayor to act partially with respect to the admission of freemen. It was now in the power of the mayor in many places to refuse to admit a freeman at a particular time, by declining to call a court for his admission.
Leave was given, and the Bill being brought in was read a first time.

IRISH MALT DUTIES BILL.
The House having resolved itself into a committee on the Irish Malt Duties Bill,
Sir John Newportsaid, it had long been the anxious wish of the House to discourage the consumption of spirits in Ireland, and to introduce malt liquor, as a more wholesome beverage. This feeling was founded in a laudable desire to promote habits of morality and industry amongst the lower classes in that country. Now, he feared, that the increased malt duty, under this Bill, would have the effect of bringing the Irish population back to the use of spirits. The right hon. gentleman, he was aware, had laid an additional tax on the distilleries, proportioned to the augmentation of the duty on the brewery; but this was likely materially to encourage the practice of illicit distillation.
Mr. Vesey Fitzgeraldsaid, the difficulties of the sister country were such, that it was impossible to adopt any measure that would be entirely effectual, or to which some objection could not be offered. He
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entirely concurred with the right hon. baronet in the desirableness of introducing malt liquor, instead of spirits. But, from the manners and habits of a great part of the population of that country—habits growing out of their peculiar occupation, vast numbers of them being employed in agriculture, and necessarily scattered over a large extent of country—it was impossible always to supply them with malt liquor. To counteract the effect of the additional duty on malt, an increased tax had been laid on the distillery. This the right hon. baronet seemed to think would induce an extension of illicit distillation. The laws, however, to prevent that evil were put in force with the most unrelaxed activity. And when it was found that government were determined to follow up those measures, which, however severe in the beginning, were, in the end, the most merciful, he hoped the good sense and hottest feeling of the country, would operate to remove the evil of illicit distillation.
Mr. W. Smithdenied the justice of the right hon. gentleman's observation, when he said, that it was impossible, because the population of Ireland was much scattered, to introduce malt liquor amongst them. The very contrary of his inference was the fact. Where great numbers of persons met together, in cities, far more spirits were consumed, than the same number would make use of, if they were scattered through the country. One hundred thousand people spread over the country, and engaged in agricultural pursuits, would not consume one-tenth part of the spirits, in a given time, that would be drunk by the like number of persons in London or Manchester.
Sir J. Newportpointed out the necessity of establishing large breweries in those districts where illicit distillation was known to be most prevalent.
Mr. W. Smithobserved, that the general consumption of malt liquor in this country did not originate in the formation, of large breweries, but was effected by the small farmers, who brewed their own beer.
Mr. V. Fitzgeraldsaid, the small farmers in Ireland had it not in their power to brew their own beer; they were really incapable. He was friendly to the establishment of breweries in that country, which was proved by his having preferred a tax on malt, to a direct beer duty, which would be more likely to pre-

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vent the growth of breweries. Whatever measure Parliament thought fit to adopt, to give encouragement to the establishment of breweries, should receive his support.
The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received tomorrow.

LIBERTY OF THE SUBJECT.
Mr. SerjeantOnslow moved, "That a committee be appointed to inspect the Journals of the House of Lords, with relation to any proceeding upon the Bill, intituled, 'An 'Act for more effectually securing the liberty of the subject;' and to make report thereof to the House:"—and a committee was appointed accordingly.