Commons Sitting of 6 March 1815

PETITIONS RESPECTING THE CORN LAWS.
This being the last day for receiving private petitions, the Speaker entered the House at a quarter past three, and formed a House immediately after prayers. After some private petitions had been received, numerous petitions were presented by different members, from nearly all parts of the kingdom, praying that no alteration might be made in the Corn laws.
Mr. Calvert, on presenting the petition from the borough of Southwark, observed, that the shortness of the time had only enabled 7,500 inhabitants to sign it; but there was no doubt that the petition which would be prepared for another place, would be signed by more than three times that number. He took that opportunity of adding, that the object of this petition was not to entreat consideration whether 76 s. or 80 s. were the fittest price, I but decidedly to pray, that no alteration whatever might be made in the corn laws.
Mr. Barclaypresented one from the manor of Clapham, signed by 7,700 persons.
Mr. Blackburnpresented ten petitions from different parts of Lancashire; amongst them was the petition from Manchester, which was signed by 54,000 inhabitants. On this being presented,
General Gascoynetook occasion to observe, that when he had commented on the unpopularity of this measure in Lancashire, an hon. member for Lancaster had said, that the people were rather friendly than adverse to it. He would only ask whether the many thousands of names signed to all the petitions from those parts, did not prove directly the contrary?
The petition from Manchester was ordered to be read. It set forth the unequivocal and unanimous opinion of the petitioners, that the Bill was the most unadvised and injudicious measure ever brought forward: that the petitioners were convinced it would have the effect

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of raising the price of labour, and diminishing the demand for our own manufactures. It alluded to the great improvements in the cotton machinery on the continent, by which an important rivalship would exist towards us, that could not fail to undermine our manufactures, if this measure were passed into a law; the petitioners therefore viewed it with the greatest alarm, and prayed it might be rejected.
Sir Robert Peelsaid, that it was not without some uneasiness he rose on this occasion. He thought the petition must show the unanimous opinion entertained of the Bill in this large manufacturing town. He begged the House also to observe, that the petition was not urged by any want of attachment to the government; for during the most pressing periods of the war, the people of Manchester had abstained from all complaints, because they had hoped that the return of peace, whenever it might arrive, would cause a cessation of their burthens. He had witnessed their feelings on former occasions with great uneasiness, as they arose from a want of bread; but when they were told that it would be injurious to publish their complaints, they submitted to their hard condition with the most praiseworthy silence. He considered the present Bill as the most injurious and unprecedented measure which had occurred in his time, as it went to affect an immensely numerous and loyal body of people, who had supported government by their labour and the advantages derived from its exercise. Was it, then, to be endured, that ministers should lend themselves to such a measure? He would tell them that they had but one interest to consult, and that was, to support the labourer in manufacturing industry. Was it intended that we should for the future only live on the produce of our land? If so, what would become of the resources from our manufactures, when our machinery should be lost? He was persuaded our manufacturers would not sit still and see their trade frittered away and destroyed: they would go abroad and exert themselves where their labour would be properly appreciated, and enable them to procure the necessaries of life. He, however, yet hoped, that as the injurious tendency of the measure must now be evident, it would not be suffered to proceed, but that ministers would convince the anxious multitude that they were alive to their real and vital interests. The fact
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was, that the more the measure became known, the more generally it was execrated and condemned. The people were not to be cajoled by such arguments as that the Bill would give them cheap bread: they knew better; they knew the thing was impossible; and, considering the inevitable consequences of the measure, he hoped the House would not suffer it to proceed further.
Mr. Philipssaid, that the petitions before them were a complete answer to the idea that the minds of the people were changed. Upon no question were their opinions so unanimous. It had, indeed, been said that popular clamour was raised on this occasion, which was rather a curious term from a representative to his constituents. At all events, the present petition had no tendency to inflame, it was argumentative and rational; it came, in fact, from a quarter not remarkable for public meetings; for the practice at Manchester was, if a requisition was transmitted to the proper officer to convene a meeting, a counter one was also sent by a greater number of persons, and consequently no meeting was assembled. This practice he strongly reprobated; it went to discountenance the fair and constitutional expression of public feeling. What rendered the present petition of greater value was, that it was signed by those who heretofore objected to general meetings. A great deal had been said of the sufferings of the agriculturist. On this point he would only say, that an artificial extension of what was called their protection would increase their sufferings. Whatever public evil existed, the manufacturer bore his part of the pressure: his wages were getting lower, as the petition stated, and were likely to continue so. Great manufacturing and commercial distress prevailed, to the vital injury of those undeniable sources of national wealth and prosperity. The petitioners had further stated, that artisans were rapidly emigrating to France; and what would not be the consequence of an increase of those emigrations? The hon. member concluded by adverting to the enormous increase of the manufacturing population of Lancashire. In the year 1690 it amounted but to 234,805; it was now 828,000. Such an increase was entitled to the serious reflection of the House.
Mr. Cawthornesaid a few words in explanation of his former opinion, relative to the change in the people's minds upon the

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subject of this Bill. To the measure he had given his conscientious support. He denied that it was precipitated through the House, having been fully before them during a week's discussion. The hon. baronet had referred to the manufacturer's suffering, but the general support of the poor fell decidedly upon the landed interest. The hon. baronet should have observed, that he had not been much a resident in that part of the country. He did not know, perhaps, that considerable relief had been afforded to the people during that period of distress to which he had alluded.
General Gascoynerepeated his previous observations, and said, that the proof of their truth was to be found in the 118,000 signatures and upwards, from that county alone.
Sir R. Peelreplied to an observation which fell from Mr. Cawthorne, respecting his not having an accurate knowledge of the opinions of the people of Lancashire, in consequence of his not having resided for some time in that county, by asserting, that although he had been partially absent from the county, he would have the hon. gentleman understand that his great capital had been constantly employed in it, and had contributed to the support of the people, whose sentiments he could not but know as well as any man.
Sir William Curtisrose to present a Petition, signed by 40,000, and upwards, of the merchants, bankers, and traders of the city of London. There never was assembled a more orderly meeting; attempts were made to introduce extraneous topics for its consideration, which the good sense of the assembly altogether rejected. It was composed, said the worthy alderman, of all parties in the city, Whig and Tory, High-church and Low-church, Dissenter and Non-conformist. The worthy baronet contended that the representatives of the people of England should not shut their ears to the people's voice.
Sir James Shawwarmly applauded the temper of the meeting from which the petition emanated. It was carried with the utmost and most unexampled unanimity.
Mr. Baringwished to take this opportunity of saying that he believed a more numerous, respectable, and unanimous meeting had never been assembled, than that at which the present petition was agreed to. He entirely concurred in the sentiments stated in that petition. He believed that the measure now in progress through the House, was substantially a
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measure having no other effect but that of raising a considerable revenue from the consumers of bread for the purpose of raising the rents of land—[hear, hear!] He congratulated the House on the short delay which had already been gained. If it had not been for the adjournment, for one day, which he had been fortunate enough to succeed in obtaining, on a former stage, at three o'clock in the morning, the citizens of London would not have had an opportunity of stating their sentiments to the House, before this important period in the discussion. The great city of Westminster, where the two Houses of Parliament were held, had not even yet been heard on the subject. The hurry with which the measure had been carried through, had prevented them from yet having a representative from that great city in the House. The absence of one of the members was sufficiently accounted for; but the other member, the worthy-baronet, who had always been such a zealous defender of the rights and liberties of the people, would no doubt be anxious to come forward on such an important occasion as the present; and he must, at least, have been on the road from the moment that he heard of the measure. The distant parts of the country had been taken by surprise; they thought the subject had been set at rest last year; and many of the towns, from the precipitate manner adopted, had not yet been able to express themselves. It was not enough, in an important question of this kind, in which the whole community were so deeply interested, to have long discussions in that House; it was their duty to give the people time to express their sentiments. To every attempt he saw to hurry this measure, he should give his decided opposition.
Mr. Alderman Atkinssaid, that so far from the signatures to the petition being only 40,000, upwards of 40,000 had signed it on Saturday. He had on Friday night earnestly intreated the House to postpone the second reading of the Bill; but the result was known. It really seemed as if the purpose of this precipitation was to prevent the petition from receiving three times the number of signatures that were already affixed to it. ['No, no,' from different parts of the House.] At all events, he said, it had that effect. The unanimous proceedings which had lately transpired, fortified the view which he had originally, taken upon this subject. This petition

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together with those of the manufacturing districts, should induce the House not to proceed any further with the measure.
Lord Lascellespresented a similar petition from Leeds, subscribed by 24,000 persons; and petitions from Wakefield, Pontefract, and some other places in the West Riding of Yorkshire. He said, he believed there was a very general disapprobation of the Bill in the manufacturing districts.
Sir Samuel Romillypresented a similar petition from Westbury. He concurred entirely in the sentiments of the persons petitioning, and thought the present one of the most-injurious measures ever brought forward in that House. He lamented exceedingly that such an important subject should be carried through with such precipitation, and that they should appear unwilling to hear the sentiments of the country.
Mr. Whitbreadpresented similar petitions from Derby, Great Bedwin, and Hammersmith.
Mr. Yorkepresented a petition from the corporation of the conservators of the Bedford Level, stating their distressed state, and praying for an alteration in the corn laws. It was rather too much for gentlemen who took the opposite side of the question, to say that they expressed the sentiments of the people. That they expressed the sentiments of a part, he was willing to admit. How easy was it to get petitions signed in great towns like London? The agriculturists had not the same opportunities of coming forward as the inhabitants of great towns. The sense of the people was much divided on this question, and it was therefore a proper subject for the decision of parliament. If the agriculturists could be collected together to petition, the difference in number would not be great. The petitioners had redeemed between 3 and 400,000 acres of land from the water, under the guarantee of parliament, and they now claimed its protection.
Mr. Baringsaid, it seemed to be held out by those who favoured the present Bill, that the agriculturists were all on its side. Now, he would maintain, for he had had communications from various respectable quarters on the subject, that the tenantry and labourers in general felt no interest whatever in the price at which the protecting duty should be fixed—[Hear, hear!].—He would repeat it, that the labourers in agriculture, and even the
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tenantry, had no interest in the present question. He believed the prevailing sentiment among the tenantry was, that this was the landlord's affair, and not theirs, for they could only pay to the landlord what they could afford after defraying their other expenses. But to talk of the labourer was altogether ridiculous. Whether wheat was 120 or 80 s. the quarter, he could only expect dry bread in the one case, and dry bread in the other; and they therefore had no interest whatever in it. With respect to petitions from the Fens, he could not but express his opinion, that if any persons were more entitled than others to the thanks of their country, it was those who made land productive but there happened to be evidence as to these fens in the report before the House. That evidence was decidedly against 80 s.; and therefore, if the persons best acquainted with land of that description did not consider 80 s. as a necessary price for the protection of the petitioners, he considered it conclusive on the subject.
Mr. Methuenbegged to assure the House, that the petitions he had presented that day were not signed by manufacturers alone, but that they contained the names of many land-owners, who were convinced of the injurious tendency of the measure.
Mr. Home Summerpresented a petition from the inhabitants of Croydon against the Bill, and observed, that as he had already brought up one from the same place of a different tendency, he could not but regret that while he performed his duty, he should have to differ in his opinion from any portion of his constituents.
Mr. Calcraftpresented a petition from the inhabitants of Rochester, signed by 8,700 names. The hon. gentleman declared he fully concurred in the prayer of the petition, and hoped the House would even now find it necessary to pause in their precipitancy.
Mr. M. A. Taylorpresented a petition against the Bill from Poole, which, he said, was numerously signed; not by manufacturers, for there were no persons of this description in the town, but by merchants and others, many of whom were considerable landholders. Me trusted, that if the House should agree to the Bill, the people would sit down quietly under it; but, for his own part, he would give it his utmost opposition.—The same hon. member gave notice of a motion relative to Wills; and also of another, for a Bill to abolish the punishment of the Pillory.

CONGRESS AT VIENNA.
On the motion for going into a committee on the Corn Bill,
Mr. Whitbreaddid not rise to object to the Speaker's leaving the chair, but there were other orders of the day on which he wished to obtain some information. He desired to know, if the discussion on the Corn Bill should last long, how it was intended to dispose of the question on the renewal of the Bank Restriction Act. And he desired particularly to know what the noble lord opposite (lord Palmerston) meant to do in that case with the Mutiny Bill? While he was on his legs, seeing the noble viscount in the blue ribbon (Castlereagh) in his place, he wished to ask if the time for making those disclosures which had been called for, but withheld in his absence, was at hand, and if they might soon expect him to come down with a message from the Prince Regent on the subject of his late important mission?
Lord Castlereaghsaid, he should be happy to give the hon. gentleman every information in his power, but at present he was not able to intimate to him when any communication on the subject referred to was likely to be made from the Prince Regent. When he should know such a message was to be brought down, he would not fail to give due notice of it. If, before this was done, the hon. gentleman should wish to obtain information on any particular point, he thought it would be best, that he should raise some question—that after some days had elapsed, he should call for that which he thought necessary. The hon. gentleman would certainly understand that, under present circumstances, the explanations which he (lord Castlereagh) could give, would be in many respects limited. If, however, the hon. gentleman called for any information which he might consider desirable, it would enable him (lord Castlereagh) to state what disclosures he could make without injury to the public service. At present he could only say, though the proceedings were not closed, yet much had been done; and it was important to add, that what was done, had been done with the general concurrence of all the great Powers, who had made every arrangement for upholding those decisions which had been dictated by the common interest of all. All the great points in which this country was especially concerned, had been met by all the Powers in a spirit of peace, and arranged perfectly to his satis-
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faction, and he hoped in a manner that would prove satisfactory to the whole House.
Mr. Whitbreadthought the noble lord must have misunderstood the intent of his question. He had asked if he did not propose to give some information to the House; for whatever the noble lord might have been told by his colleagues, he (Mr. W.) did think the time was come when some information ought to be given from the Prince, or from the noble lord in his place, without being called for. From the answer he had received, he could hardly believe the noble lord was the man who had been at Vienna; for what had fallen from him was but a continuation of that system of evasion which had been practised in his absence. It would be most satisfactory to the House that the information to be given should come spontaneously from the noble lord; but if no communication was to be made to that House before the Easter holidays, he would certainly move for that which he thought necessary. He repeated, however, that it would be best that the noble lord should give what he thought himself at liberty to offer, and it would then be for the House to determine whether or not that was sufficiently ample and satisfactory.
Lord Castlereaghreplied, that whatever communications the Crown might have to make, would be made at the proper period; but if the hon. gentleman wished for any information in the present instance, he was at liberty to call for it; and he might be enabled in that case to state how the business of the Congress now stood, and whether that which the hon. gentleman, might desire should be produced, could or could not be given. That which had been done, had not yet received its full ratification. Most important questions had been decided, and the determinations of the Congress had been reduced to articles; but these not having yet been ratified, could not be produced. What had been done, had been done (he repeated it) with the concurrence of all the great Powers, and every thing had been satisfactorily arranged that regarded the peculiar interests of this country.
Mr. Whitbreadinquired if he was to understand, that unless some member moved for information, the noble lord proposed to remain altogether silent on these great subjects?
Lord Castlereaghhad not intended to assert this, but in the present state of

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things his communications must necessarily be limited.
Mr. Whitbreadwished to know if he was to understand, that at any given time, the noble lord would lay any information before the House, as a minister, or as a member of parliament?
Lord Castlereaghsaid not as a minister certainly.
Lord Palmerston, in answer to the question put to him, said, if the discussion on the Corn Bill should not take up much of the time of the House, it was his intention to proceed with the Mutiny Bill that evening. If, however, the House should be occupied till a late hour in the committee, he was willing to postpone it to a future day.
Mr. Whitbreadthen gave notice, that on an early vacant day he would raise a question on the subject of the noble viscount's mission, which would give the noble viscount an opportunity of laying before the House such information as he might give consistently with his duty.

CORN BILL.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for the House to resolve itself into a committee on the Corn Bill. On the question, that the Speaker do leave the chair,
Sir Gilbert Heathcoterose to object to it. He said, that improper motives had been imputed to the landed proprietors; but, however faulty their motives might have been, the blame was more attributable to the Government, who had given their sanction to the measure, when their duty ought to have pointed out to them that they had no right or business to interfere between two parties so situated as were the landed proprietors and the manufacturing interests; nay, indeed, as appeared from the innumerable petitions, he might say between the landed interest and a vast majority of the whole nation. But he must now call the attention of the House to the real question, which was this. The Government wanted to wind up the expenses of the war; the sum was no less than 20,000,000 l.; and in order to prevail on the landed interest to support them in the measures necessary to raise this sum, ministers had thrown out the alluring bait of giving their aid to this measure respecting the corn laws. It was in vain to come to any fair decision on the subject by the means which had been proposed; the only way to meet the matter fairly, would be by an immediate reduction of the rents;
[16
and looking the subject honestly in the face, with a due recollection of what had taken place in the case of the rents since 1791, he thought a reduction of one-third might very reasonably take place, which would be a most wholesome relief to the cultivator of the soil. The House was told that 80 s. was a very fair and moderate price, but on what authority did they receive this information? Look to the report, and it would be found, that they were to bottom themselves on the opinions of land-surveyors, who received a percentage according to the high value they put upon rents, by which, according to the arguments held up in favour of the present measure, the landholders were to fix the price of corn on the whole population of the kingdom. The true method of procedure would be to lower the rents, which could not fail to produce the best possible effect, and would render the present very unpopular measure totally unnecessary. He was himself a considerable landholder; and from the first moment of his being so, he had always objected to high rents, as tending to prevent all good offices between landlord and tenant, and to weaken, if not in course of time finally to destroy that desirable attachment which, in his opinion, ought ever to subsist between persons so closely and intimately connected in point of mutual interests. He thought the present measure might be avoided by empowering the Prince Regent, with the advice of his privy council, to stop the importation of foreign corn, whenever it might be found necessary, and by that means make the measure a temporary one. In addition to this, it ought to be the peculiar care and conduct of ministers to introduce economy into every department, both civil and military; and he had not a doubt but by these means the country would be relieved from its present pressure, without resorting to a measure so unpopular as the present Bill evidently was to the whole nation. He wished most particularly to call the attention of the landed interest to the melancholy events which were consequent on the French revolution. He would beg them to recollect who were the persons that formed the great mass of the refugees who emigrated to this country on that lamentable occasion. They would find that the great majority of these unhappy fugitives from their native land were great landed proprietors, who had brought on the revolution and the direful effects attendant on it,

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by rack rents, and treating with contempt the calls of a suffering people, groaning under their weight and pressure.
Mr. Horace St. Pauldeclared, that he would not have troubled the House with the expression of his sentiments, but for the precipitation that marked this measure in every stage of its progress—precipitate he would call it, with respect to the country, in not affording the people an opportunity of expressing their opinions on the subject—precipitate, likewise, as it respected the members of parliament, in not granting them a sufficient time to form their judgment—and, finally, he conceived it precipitate even for the ministers, from the imputation that might be cast on them, of hurrying it, as if they were apprehensive of its justice and policy: and certainly such an opinion might naturally be entertained, for the refusal of a reasonable time to examine its expediency, displayed symptoms of such an apprehension. He had now risen to enter his protest against their proceedings, and after having given the most anxious consideration to the subject, he had arrived at this conclusion, that all legislation on the article of corn was in the present instance unwise and premature; and, however he might think a protecting price ultimately necessary for the farmer, he would oppose such a law, while we were still ignorant of the veal state of the affairs of Europe. At present it was impossible to decide on this question; and it might be esteemed somewhat presumptuous to settle a price before we could ascertain the state of our currency, and our various relations with other powers. We were now proceeding in darkness and ignorance, without even that knowledge to direct us which we might have expected from its being made a ministerial question. But what must have been the surprise of the House to find that the speech of the right hon. gentleman who so modestly introduced this measure, contained no information on the subject—nothing new—nothing to instruct. The hon. member next observed, that the evils suffered last year by the agriculturists no longer existed; there was now no glut of foreign corn in the market, no property-tax, and the war with America was now terminated; these circumstances should weigh considerably in the decision of this question. The House likewise should consider who those persons were that promoted this measure, who the committee were that sat on the subject. Many of them were prejudiced
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in favour of it. Who were the evidence? Men whose characters were raised in proportion to the rise of land. Every landholder, he contended; was interested in this, for they would gain considerably in the amount of their rents. If corn was raised from 60 s. to 70 s. the landlord would gain a guinea an acre; if to 80 s. he would gain 2l. 11 s. [A laugh, and cries of Hear, hear!] The House might be surprised at this. Gentlemen might laugh within those walls, but there was but little laughing on this subject without them. But he would prove his assertion. An acre of land, at a low average, produced three quarters of wheat. If there was an increase of 7s. a quarter, there must consequently be a clear gain of one guinea an acre; and if the price be raised to 80 s. he fancied that on a fair calculation he would not be found to have over-rated the profits. As to the argument brought forward by certain hon. members, that the amount of rent made no difference in this question, he would not insult the understandings of the House by dwelling on it; but he would assure them, that fanners in general were hostile to this Bill, because it would afford a pretence to the landlords not to abate their rents. He could not agree with those who asserted that low prices would produce idleness. He knew that among manufacturers a man might earn as much in, three days as would support him for a week; but in agricultural labour the business must advance regularly, and without intermission. But who, he asked, supported the poor in the great scarcity? Not landholders or farmers, but the merchants and shopkeepers—No one, said the hon. gentleman, condescended, on the first night of debating this question, to mention the effect it would have on the quartern loaf. A worthy baronet (sir James Shaw) had proved that when the average price of corn was 80 s., the quartern loaf was considerably above 1s.; and his arguments were answered only by the assertion, that they were calculated to stultify the understandings of the House. It had been said that the people decided on the measure by fueling, rather than reason. How else, he would ask, could they decide, when their families were starving? He prayed the House to pause before they decided on so momentous a point; and declared that although a friend to the landed interest, he considered the general welfare of the empire as more important. The hon. gentleman then enumerated the various

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circumstances which were connected with this question; and observed, that if the House were deficient in information on any one of these points, they ought to pause; until they were perfectly satisfied. They ought to be completely acquainted with all the circumstances growing out of the situation of the times. At the present moment, when the affairs of Europe were by no means settled, when a great variety of interests were to be balanced, he thought the House ought not to precipitate a measure of such vital importance. He considered the hurrying of this Bill through the House, at this period, as originating in the grossest prejudice and ignorance of the subject: But, at the same time, he believed that there was not an individual in that House who was desirous of raising the price of corn on the community. The hon. gentleman concluded by observing, that they would assist the agricultural interest more by abstaining, at present, from any interference with the corn laws, than by pressing forward this or any other measure connected with the subject.
Mr. Vysedeclared himself to be friendly to the interests of the agriculturist, which it was his intention to support, not from any partial or unworthy motive, but because, if some measure like that before the House were not followed up, the state would be menaced with the greatest danger. He was convinced, that the effect of the measure would be, not to make bread dear, but to make it permanently cheap. The Bill before the House had been, in his opinion, met with unmerited reprobation within doors, and with machinations and contrivances without. If a bill protecting the agriculturist, were not sanctioned by that House, the consequence would be, that Trance, who could not fight this country in a time of war, would have the power of starving her in a period of peace. From one end of the country to the other, if the object and intention of the Bill were clearly explained—if its merits were fairly described—if it were shown to be a measure, as it really was, which would benefit no class in particular, bat would be useful to all—then he was sure that a greater number of persons would express themselves in favour of the proposed alteration, than had been induced to declare their hostility to it. Much clamour had been unfairly excited against the Bill; but if the clamour were ten times greater, he would support it. He felt it his duty, after coolly and conscien-
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tiously considering the question—after examining it, as far as his judgment allowed him, in its various bearings, to give the measure before the House, important as it was to every branch of the community, from one end of the empire to the other, his decided support. To make the legislature beloved and respected, it was necessary that they should act in a firm and determined manner. They would never be able to keep themselves in that proud and honourable situation, if, by clamours without doors, and by cheers within, they were deterred from pursuing that course, which their judgment pointed out to them as the most desirable to be followed. It was not his intention, on the grounds stated by an hon. gentleman near him, to vote for 80 s. as the protecting price; but he would support 76 s., and he thought, by so doing, that he should be essentially serving the best interests of the country.
Mr. Ellisonsupported the motion, and observed, that the assize of bread rendered the price of that necessary of life higher in London than in the country. He thought the amount of the protecting price was comparatively of little consequence. If 76 s. was agreeable to the country, he should be very well satisfied; the object was to give confidence to the farmer. It would be most unjust that the agriculturist, after sinking his capital in his land, should be open to the competition of the foreign corn grower, who, from the small burthens to which he was subjected, might undersell him. He said, that when individuals had applied to him on the subject of petitioning parliament with reference to this measure, he had endeavoured to dissuade them from any interference, because he thought the question had better be left to the deliberative wisdom of parliament, which would adopt such measures, and such measures only, as were calculated to benefit the empire in general. He was extremely adverse to the line of argument taken by those who opposed the Bill, which went to divide the country into two classes, the agricultural and the manufacturing. Now, he had always considered their interests as one and the same; he had ever looked upon the people of England as one great united body, however subdivided with respect to their pursuits and professions. No man despised clamour more than he did. They were met together to do their duty, and he trusted they would not be

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by noise and tumult, from adopting that which they conceived to be a wise measure. The times pressed hard on the grower of corn, and on every individual who was connected with the agriculture of the country. They had laid out their money for the general benefit, and it would be most unjust if they were not now supported. If the agricultural interest were suffered to decay, the ruin of the manufacturer, who would be unable to sell his goods in consequence, would soon follow. It was most important, in a national point of view, that the country should be rendered adequate to the supply of its population, instead of depending on foreign states, for an article of the first importance. So desirable a state of things could only be produced by affording a fair remuneration to the farmer; and all the provisions of the present Bill went, he contended, to procure for the manufacturers, and for the people in general, an abundant supply of bread at a permanently cheap rate. It was well said by the celebrated Swift, that he was the best statesman, who made three blades of grass grow where only one grew before; and certainly he who caused two blades of corn to grow, where ordinarily but one appeared, was worthy of great praise. It was to produce this effect that the Bill was brought forward; and such an object, he conceived, ought to be generally supported. It seemed to be imagined by many, that there was no fear of the farmer giving up the cultivation of grain en his land. But if the manufacturer was not properly remunerated for his skill and labour, would he continue to expend his capital? Certainly he would not. And, if the farmer was not protected, why should it be supposed that he would continue a losing trade?
Mr. Cartwrightspoke in favour of going into the committee, which was the proper place for settling what the protecting price ought to be. He was extremely surprised that any gentleman should use the language he had heard in that House. It was said, by an hon. member, that it was intended, by this measure, to starve the people. Such assertions, be knew, were calculated to occasion a ferment in the public mind; but he would beg gentlemen to recollect, that when a ferment was once raised, it was not an easy matter to cool it. He again pressed upon the House the necessity of going into the committee, where they might deliberate on
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the price with which it would be most proper to fill up the blanks. He trusted the House would permit no farther delay in the progress of this business. The measure was of the first importance, since it went to render England independent of foreign countries, with respect to a constant supply of grain. It was only intended to secure to the fanner such a fair remuneration for his labour, as would induce him to pursue the system of cultivation; and, so far from any blame being attached to ministers for the part they had taken on this occasion, be conceived they deserved the thanks of the country for their exertions.
Mr. St. Paulexplained. He meant not to attribute any ill intention to the members of that House. He had spoken merely of the probable effect of the Bill, without any improper reference to the motives of those who supported it.
General Gascoynesaid, that as it seemed that no lower price would satisfy the supporters of the Bill than 80 s. he should oppose the Speaker's leaving the chair. The assertion of the right hon. gentleman, that the effect of the measure would be to lower the price of corn was so extraordinary, that he had at the time thought he must have misconceived it; but it had been explained by the surveyor-general of woods and forests, that in the next ten years the average price would be lower than it had been in the last ten years. As few of the members of the House might survive to disprove this assertion, the prophecy was a safe one. If the right hon. gentleman could persuade the people that the effect of the Bill would be to lower the price of corn, there would be little opposition to it from them; but, on the other hand, what the farmers complained of was the low price, so that they would be ill satisfied, unless the right hon. gentleman could shew them that it would raise the price. If the present measure were carried, a Bill might be next introduced on the part of the apothecaries, to oblige the people to take a certain quantity of physic for ten years, that they might have the less to take the ten years after. It was clear that the present effect of the Bill would be to raise the price, whatever the future effect might be. He moved as an amendment, that the House do resolve itself into the committee on the first day after the Easter recess.
Mr. Robinsonsaid, he had been much misunderstood by the gallant general, but

23]
the present was not the time to go again through the whole of his former speech, If the gallant general supposed that he was capable of holding different lines of argument to different classes of persons, he must have been but ill acquainted with his character.
Mr. Bullerstated, that he had in his hand a petition, signed by 20,000 persons, from the place which he had the honour to represent, against any alteration in the present corn laws. He hoped the House would not act precipitately.
Lord Comptonentered into a short statement, to prove the fallacy of the arguments adduced by an hon. baronet (sir James Shaw) on a former night. He contended that the hon. Báronet's data led to conclusions quite different from those he had drawn from them. He was sure the hon. baronet had no wish to mislead the House, but when statements were made, which would probably have a great effect on the public mind, gentlemen ought to take care that they were well founded. The noble lord then proceeded to argue in favour of the Bill, which he conceived absolutely necessary for the protection of the agricultural interest, and consequently for the benefit of the country in general.
Mr. Alderman C. Smithexpressed himself in favour of the amendment. He had been informed, by several farmers, and he believed it to be the fact, that the measure would be of no service to them, though it would essentially benefit the great landholders.
Mr. Protheroesupported the amendment. It would afford an opportunity for considering whether a medium price might not be taken, which would relieve the agiculturists, and yet meet the general feeling of the country. As to the observation of a ferment being not easy to be appeased, he would certainly say, that the appearance of precipitation was not the best way of appeasing it.
Sir W. W. Wynncontended, that it was absolutely necessary something should be done for the relief of the cultivators of the soil. He should certainly vote for the Bill going into a committee, although he would not pledge himself to the adoption of any particular protecting price. He was inclined to think that 75 s. a quarter would be an eligible sum.
Mr. Marryattobserved, that when the business was first introduced, the fact of no petitions having been presented against it, was advanced as an argument to prove
[24
that the popular feeling was changed, and that the measure was a very proper one. Since that time, however, petitions had poured in from every part of the country, expressive of the strongest hostility to the measure. Now, if the silence of the people in the first instance, was insisted on as a proof of the excellence of the measure, he thought their disapprobation, powerfully expressed as it had been, ought to have some weight in the opposite scale. He was very anxious that a little more time should be allowed for considering the question. They had been so constantly employed in debating, that no time had been left for thinking. By a little delay they would be enabled to come to a decision more consistent with their own dignity, and infinitely more satisfactory to the public. Impressed with these sentiments, he should vote for the amendment.
Mr. Calcraftthought that precipitation was altogether unjustifiable under the present circumstances, when the ports were shut for three months. He must observe, that on former occasions the legislature was not so precipitate. In 1773, the bill which was introduced on the 1st of December was not out of the House till the month of April. In 1791, the bill was brought in the 16th of December, and was not passed till the 27th of May following. In 1804, the bill was brought in the 14th of May, and although it was late in the session, it was not passed until the 26th of July. He thought that if the Bill could be arrested in its course, only for a few short days, as proposed by the hon. general, some terms of conciliation might be fixed on. The feeling of the people on this subject was well known; and although the legislature were not to be overawed by the expression of this feeling, yet the voice of the people was deserving their most serious attention. He denied that the price of grain was falling in the way many gentlemen had stated; and, in proof of his position, he quoted the returns published in the Gazette, from which it appeared, that in January last corn was 59 s. per quarter, and by the last return it was 67 s. 3d.
Mr. William Smithdeclared, that he had often told his constituents that on a question of a local nature he should solicitously obey their instructions, but that on one affecting the whole community, while he listened to their opinion, he must be permitted to exercise his own judgment. In this case, however, although he had not

25]
received any instructions from his constituents he bad reason to believe that their opinion and his own coincided. On the best examination into which he had been able to enter of all the evidence on the table, he was convinced that 80 s. was too high a protecting price. He should therefore vote for the postponement.—The House divided on general Gascoyne's motion: Yeas, 61; Noes, 187. A second division then took place, on the question, that the Speaker do now leave the chair, when the numbers were: Yeas, 194; Noes 54. The House then went into the committee. The first and second resolutions were agreed to. On the resolution being read, which went to fix the price at which corn might be imported,
Mr. Robinsonrose, to propose that the blank should be filled up, by inserting the sum of 80 s. a quarter. This subject had already been so fully discussed in different stages of the measure, that he thought that the House would not now expect him to go over the argument again.
General Gascoynesaid, that he should follow the example of the right hon. gentleman. In proposing an amendment to the motion, he thought it unnecessary to repeat the arguments that had already been advanced; but in order to conciliate the feelings of the people with the measure proposed, he should move, as an amendment, that the blank should be filled up with the words 74 s. instead of 80 s.
Mr. Brookesupported the amendment.
Mr. Courtenaysupported the amendment. He had conversed with many members on this subject; and neither from conversations, nor from any thing that had fallen in that House, was he able to learn upon what grounds any member had fixed upon 80 s. as the proper price. If it was not apparent why 80 s. was the proper price for England, it was much less evident that it was the proper price for Ireland. If it was said that the English cultivators could not bring their corn into market under 80 s. he believed that no Irish gentleman would say, that the Irish cultivators could not afford it cheaper. In the county that he was most connected with in England, it was generally supposed that corn could be afforded at a lower rate than 80 s.; and from his knowledge of Ireland, he was sure that it could be grown there much cheaper. The Irish cultivators whom he had conversed with did not conceive such a price to be necessary. Unless members were satisfied that 80 s. was a price abso-
[26
lutely necessary for the protection of our agriculturists, he could not see upon what grounds they could support it.
Mr. Westernexpressed his anxiety to go to the utmost possible extent, short of rendering the measure a nullity, in order to make it one of conciliation. He felt how important it was to convince the people of the fact, namely, that parliament were legislating as much for their interest as for that of any particular class of the community; but he would not consent to give up the efficacy of the Bill for the purpose of consulting a temporary feeling. His persuasion on the subject was founded, not on theory, but on experience, and that the experience of nearly a century. For 79 years, during which period the duty on the importation of foreign corn amounted almost to a prohibition, corn in this country was at a price lower than it had been at anterior, and than it was at subsequent periods. This was a fact on which the opponents of the measure ought to dwell. One hon. gentleman who had noticed it, attributed it to the poverty of the country at that time, but of this there was no proof. On they contrary, from 1710 (the period at which the system he had described was in full operation) down to 1764, not only did agriculture improve, but commerce and manufactures kept pace with it. Agriculture had, in fact, so much improved within that interval, that bread was cheaper than it had been at any anterior or subsequent periods, while our exports and imports had advanced from 10 to 25,000,000 l. per annum. But the great cause which called for the interposition of the House upon this subject in order to encourage agriculture was the amount of our taxation, which so far exceeded that of France, that it was impossible our agriculture could go on, unless it was adequately protected. With a view to that protection the present measure was brought forward; and the effect of that measure would, he was confident, be in the end to lower the price of corn. Consequently it would serve to benefit the public, and therefore, he trusted, that no popular clamour, which must be temporary, would prevent the legislature from adopting a measure, the happy results of which must be permanent. For his part, he had no hesitation in stating, that the popular clamour should be withstood, and the more so because he was persuaded that it was mainly the effect of delusion. He estimated the opi-

27]
nion of the people as highly as any man; but he would never give up his own right of judgment, and he hoped that such was the resolution of every man who heard him. For if otherwise, they must give up even the government of the country. Not only the present administration, but any other, must give way if the will of the people were to be uncontrollable. He trusted, therefore, that the House would maintain its honour and character by persevering in the course which it deemed to be right; that it would not allow itself to be swayed by petitions, for the people might as well petition for the abolition of their liberties as for the abandonment of the measure under consideration, which involved their dearest interests. It was notorious that the people were too easily misled; that there were but too many always ready to misguide and inflame them: those, however, who were most forward to flatter the people, were, they might rest assured, very willing to deceive them. He knew that the people were deceived upon this subject, and therefore he would not capitulate to their wishes. But his right to decide for himself on all public questions, was the doctrine which he always avowed. When he became candidate for Essex, he told the electors that he went into parliament from and for them; but that he would not obey them, that he would be governed on all occasions by his own judgment and opinion, while he would never cease to consult their interest. That interest he consulted in this instance; for it was his firm conviction that the present measure, if carried with due efficacy, would tend most materially to their benefit. But the measure was egregiously misunderstood. When the people called out for cheap bread, they did not understand the meaning of their cry; for the true meaning of cheap bread was nothing else than cheap labour; and if so generally comprehended, he had no doubt that the general cry would be in favour of the measure before the committee.

PROCEEDINGS UPON COMPLAINT THAT THE APPROACHES TO THE HOUSE WERE OCCUPIED BY A MILITARY FORCE.
Mr. Baringwas proceeding to animadvert on the observations of Mr. Western, when
Mr. Lambtonrose, and stated, that on coming to the House in the discharge of his duty, he saw the avenues to it surrounded by the military force, which appeared to him so contrary to the princi-
[28
ples of the constitution, that he should move that the House do immediately adjourn.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that if the hon. gentleman had bestowed a little more consideration upon his motion, he would have been aware that it was not in a committee that it ought to be brought forward. The hon. gentleman should also have taken the pains of informing himself, whether this military force which he had seen was or was not under the command of a civil magistrate. [Hear, hear!] He might have also informed himself what was the cause of the civil magistrate having called in the aid of the military, and whether it was not in consequence of the House being surrounded by a numerous and tumultuous mob, who had been brought into the neighbourhood of the House of Commons for the purpose of menacing the members of that House. If this was the true state of the case, that magistrate had done his duty who had brought the military into the neighbourhood of the House. He hoped that the hon. gentleman would feel that it was highly proper to defend the civil power of the country; and what higher duty had that civil power to perform, than to defend the Parliament of the country from the menaces of a mob? If the members of that House were to be intimidated in the discharge of their public duties by the clamour and menaces of a mob, they would soon cease to be the representatives of the people, and would be degenerated and degraded to the condition of being themselves a part of that mob. He hoped, before the hon. member gave the countenance of his name to a complaint; against the employment of the military, that he would be satisfied they had been called out in an unconstitutional manner, and not for the due support of the civil power, and the protection of the independence of Parliament.
Mr. Lambtonsaid, in reply to the noble lord, that in coming to perform his duty in the House, he found himself menaced by a military force, and considering this highly unconstitutional, he thought some explanation was due to Parliament.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that the force was called out in aid of the civil magistrate, and not with a view to menace the members, of arliament.
Mr. W. Fitzgeraldstated, that when he came down to attend his duty in the House, he saw no military force, but he

29]
saw a most tumultuous mob, by whom the members were collared and dragged about. They were challenged to tell their names, and which way they had voted on the former stages of the bill, and how they meant to vote this night. Seeing an hon. friend of his (Mr. Croker) very rudely treated, and with difficulty rescued from this mob, he deemed it his duty to inform the Speaker, as the first magistrate in that House. It was probably in consequence of this information, that a military force was brought into the neighbourhood of the House—not to overawe its proceedings, but to defend its members from violence. He was sorry that the hon. gentleman had not come down to the House a few hours sooner; as in that case, he would have been able to have formed a better judgment of the cause of the military being brought into that neighbourhood.
Mr. Whitbreadwas not at all surprised that his hon. friend, on discovering a military force in the neighbourhood of the House, should have taken the earliest opportunity of stating that fact in his place; and if he had done so with warmth, he considered that warmth as venial, inasmuch as he was ignorant of the manner in which they had come there. He concurred with the noble lord and the right hon. gentleman, that if a tumultuous mob had insulted the members of that House on their approach to it, and the civil power was incompetent to repel those insults, it was proper the aid of the military should be called in. Bat he thought it was due to the dignity of the House to be informed what had taken place, to induce the Speaker to issue the mandate to which allusion had been made. With this view of the case, he thought the best course to be pursued would be for the chairman to report progress, and ask leave to sit again. The Speaker would then have an opportunity of taking the chair, and explaining, no doubt to the satisfaction of the Mouse, how it was that the military had been called in. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving,—That the chairman report progress, and ask leave to sit again.
Lord Castlereaghconcurred in the propriety of this suggestion, and said it would certainly be proper for the House to be informed of the facts which had occurred, from due authority.
The question was then put and carried, and the Speaker took the chair.
Mr. Lambtonthen rose and complained to the House, that, in his way to the House this evening, he had been nearly rode over by a squadron of horse, who had formed themselves in front of the door of the House, and that the avenues thereto were beset by a military force; and that he thought it his duty to make this complaint, as he conceived it to be a breach of the constitution, and of the privileges of the House, that the military power should be in a situation to overawe their deliberations.
Mr. Crokersaid, that in coming to the House his carriage was surrounded by a tumultuous mob, who demanded his name, and requested to know how he proposed to vote, or how he had voted upon the Corn Bill? But to these questions he declined to make any reply. However, on his arrival at the door of the House, both doors of the carriage were opened, and he was dragged out by the collar. He then received several blows, his assailants exclaiming that they would not let him, go, unless he declared his name and promised to vote against the Corn Bill. This promise, however, he refused to give, and endeavoured, with all the strength of which be was capable, to release himself; which he did not think he should have succeeded in effecting, if it were not for the violence and confusion that prevailed among the mob, who struck at one another. Thus he contrived to escape from them, and made his way into the House through the coffee-room of the House of Lords, there being no other avenue unimpeded by the mob. At the time he was so treated, he saw no soldier whatever about the House; and he was sorry to say, that he derived no projection from any constables, who did not indeed seem competent to afford any adequate protection. Upon coming into the House he thought it his duty to communicate to the Speaker what he had just stated, adding, that he understood several other members had also been ill treated by the mob, and he believed that the introduction of a military force to aid the civil power had been the consequence of such communication. Were not such means taken for the protection of the members, he agreed with his noble friend in thinking, that it would be quite absurd to talk of the independence of that House, or to calculate upon the maintenance of its dignity, or capacity for free deliberation.
Mr. Speakerthen desired to state to the

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House, his knowledge of the several steps taken in the course of this day, which had terminated in calling in the aid of the military, for the protection of the House and its members:—That before the House assembled this day, seeing the possibility of some tumult or obstruction to the passage of the members to or from the House, he had directed the Serjeant at Arms and Deputy Serjeant, with their messengers, to keep the lobby clear of all strangers, before the House met, and so long as it should continue to sit: That he had sent the Deputy Serjeant at Arms to the High Bailiff of Westminster, to signify to him the necessity of his special attention, this day, to the execution of the orders delivered to him at the beginning of each session, for keeping free the approaches to the House during the time of its sitting: That he had also desired that a Middlesex magistrate, belonging to one of the public offices, might attend with a sufficient number of constables, to keep a free passage from the lobby to the entrances from Westminster-hall and old Palace-yard respectively; and that if the civil power should ultimately prove to be inadequate for the protection of the House and its members, he should then, and not till then, call in the military, to maintain the peace: That some time in the course of this evening, before the House resolved itself into the committee upon the corn laws, he received a complaint from a noble lord, a member of this House, that he had been grossly insulted by a mob in Palace-yard, who had demanded his name, and his promise to vote against the Corn Bill; neither of which demands the noble lord had complied with; and that he had, with the greatest difficulty, and at the imminent hazard of his life, made his way into the House; and that thereupon he (the Speaker) had sent out his directions to the civil officers to call in the military; and for these directions he accounted himself to be responsible to the House; who, he doubted not, would be satisfied that he had done no more than his duty.
Mr. Whitbreadsaid, after this statement, the House must be satisfied that a military force had not been called in without sufficient cause. The hon. Secretary of the Admiralty, however, having stated, that the civil power had neglected to perform their duty, he thought it was essential that the House should examine into that circumstance. He should, therefore, pro-
[32
pose that the High Bailiff of Westminster should be called to the bar, to render an account of the steps he had taken to provide for the protection of the members on their approach to the House.
The Speakersuggested the propriety of also calling Mr. Baker, the Marlborough-street magistrate, to the bar, as, besides the communication which he had made to the High Bailiff of Westminster, he had also applied to that gentleman.
Mr. Crokerexplained, that when he said he had not seen any peace-officers, he meant on the outside of the door; for when he came from the House into the lower lobby, he then found abundance of them.
Mr. Fitzgerald,on hearing of the danger to which his hon. friend had been exposed, had proceeded with ten or twelve peace officers to his rescue. With this force he had attempted to effect his passage as far as the carriage-way, but such were the numbers and the strength of the mob, that they could not be penetrated.
Mr. Whitbreadsaid, it appeared the police officers were placed where they ought not to have been, instead of the place in which they could have been of service.
Mr. Ponsonbyconceived that the first step to be taken was to ascertain what had been done by the civil power which had the charge of the avenues without the House, and what degree of civil force had been called in. On constitutional principles, the military force ought not to have been called in, if the civil power were sufficient for the protection of the House and its members.
The Attorney Generalsaid, it so happened, that he was perhaps the last member who had entered the House by its usual avenues. To avoid passing through the throng, he drove to the entrance-gate of Westminster-hall. When his carriage arrived there, the door was opened, and he was asked who he was, by numbers, who also insisted on knowing how he meant to vote on the Corn Bill. He was aware, that for years past he had been too well known in Westminster to be able to disguise himself. He was never ashamed of his name, nor could he conceal it; and many, probably, knew him well enough. He said to the people, 'I won't deceive you, nor will I state what my vote will be. I shall certainly act according to the dictates of my conscience, after hearing this measure fully discussed. Unless you pursue a different conduct, you, and all

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of you, may regret your present attempt to overawe members of parliament; and if my life were in danger, I would sacrifice it in such a case as this.' Some of the mob said, he had always been the friend of the people. He thought that among so many, all might not think of him so handsomely. Some, however, formed an escort for him through the hall to the steps ascending to the lobby. There again he found an immense number, not to be resisted by mere peace officers. There again, they called upon him for a pledge; they urged the sufferings of the poor during a long war, and desired not to be offered up to the interests of the Irish. He told them there, that he had no objection to state his sentiments; that parliament would certainly do its duty; but that if something were not done, they might have soon to depend for their existence on foreign bread. He asked them to let him return home. Some of them who were friendly to him, told him he could not do that, as several members had been very roughly handled. He succeeded in a kind of bargain with his friends on the outside, and they permitted him to get in. The assemblage altogether was of such a nature as to excite serious alarm. The House ought unquestionably to need no aid but that of the civil power; but the case became quite different when an additional force was absolutely required.
Mr. Finlaysaid, that coming down with a noble friend of his, they were surrounded by a tumultuous assemblage, just as they were getting out of the carriage. He himself was assailed with sticks, and his friend had his coat and waistcoat torn. The mob was such as could not be dispersed but by a military force.
Sir Robert Heronshewed the skirt of his coat, which hung nearly torn from the body, and said, that besides this he could shew other visible marks of the treatment he had received. Instead of finding the mob as patient and mild as the hon. and learned Attorney General, he had experienced nothing but the most brutal treatment, and after having been buffeted about like a shuttlecock between two battledores, he escaped, with great difficulty, to tell his tale. [A laugh.] He said, he had not intended to deliver any sentiment on the subject, though his opinion on it had been long decided. But now, when it was attempted to terrify the House into submission to a mob, he should think himself unworthy a seat in that
[34
House, did he decline expressing his unqualified approbation of the measure; to which he should give his warm support.
Sir Frederick Flooddeclared, that he had been carried above a hundred yards on the shoulders of the mob, just like mackarel from Billingsgate-market, and that he thought they meant to quarter him. [A laugh.]
The Speakerentreated the hon. member, in a matter of such deep importance, to abstain from all argument or narration, unless he had something material to say on the subject.
Mr. Wynnthought, that as the proper course of proceeding was now before them, it was best to postpone all observations for the present.
The question for calling in Arthur Morris, esq. the high bailiff of Westminster, was then put, and carried nem. con.
Mr. Morriswas then called in; and in answer to the questions put to him by Mr. Speaker, stated, "That yesterday he received a note from Mr. Becket (the under Secretary of State in the Home department); and, as directed, took measures for calling out all the civil force in his jurisdiction. That he ordered the high constable to issue precepts to call out all the petty constables, appointing them to be in attendance this day in various parts of Westminster: that the whole number of constables under his authority is about 80; and as many came as could come: they came between two and three o'clock; and are here now; he placed them himself, and has been here ever since; some were stationed in Westminster-hall, some in the stone lobby, some within the entrance doors; and they remained in their places as far as he could see.
"That the civil force under him is a small part of the civil force of Westminster: and during every afternoon of the session, and till the House separates, some of his constables (as many as appear to be necessary) are in constant attendance.
"Of his 80 constables, about 50 attended to-day, or between 40 and 50; he found this force, joined with all the force of the police offices, quite insufficient to restrain the mob; he did not take any step to remedy this, because knowing the Bow-street magistrates were also here, he relied on them to do so. He had no power over any constables but his own: he did not inform any officer of the House, that the civil power was not strong

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enough; he relied on Mr. Baker and Mr. Birnie, whom he knew to be at hand; but he had no communication with them: he had seen a military force here, within a quarter of so hour or half an hour; and he did not hear of any before.
"A written return of the constables who attend, is made daily to Mr. Wilson, who acts under him: he does not know that any person has been taken into custody, for any breach of the peace within the avenues of the House." And then he was directed to withdraw.
Mr. Baker, a magistrate of the Marl-borough-street Police-office, was then Called in; and, in answer to the questions put to him by Mr. Speaker, stated, "That he is a police magistrate of the Marl-borough-street office; that inconsequence of the direction of the Speaker, as well as from lord Sidmouth, he attended at the House of Commons at two o'clock, with 50 constables; he understood the particular duty assigned to him by the Speaker to be, the care of the stone lobby, and the stone stair-case, and that the avenues between were kept clear.
"None of his constables were outside; but a party under sir Nathaniel Conant; he was aware of the difficulty of restraining the mob outside, but found no difficulty inside; much difficulty for the last hour and half: was fully satisfied that the civil force was insufficient, and advised to call in a military force: having received a message from the Speaker to that effect, he went to the Horse-guards himself, and brought down with him two troops of horse for that purpose. That at different times the constables within assisted those without, when their services were wanted.
"That he does not know that any person has been taken into custody for a breach of the peace, within the avenues of the House: that he had not seen any actual assault; but there was a great deal of hooting and hallooing in the street opposite to the Abbey."
Being asked, how many constables were with sir Nathaniel Conant, and what degree of assistance they gave? He replied, That he did not know the exact number, 20 or 30 at least; and that there was a general concurrence amongst all the constables, in trying to give assistance where most needed: he does not know the total number of constables. Sir Nathaniel Conant was called to another part of the town two hours before the military force was called in; but Mr. Kinnaird
[36
came to relieve sir Nathaniel Conant with another party of constables: he himself went to look outside of the door once or twice; saw a great crowd at the entrance of the members' waiting-room; he saw members obstructed; the constables attempted to get them in safely, and were principally occupied in that: they did not take any rioters into custody; his own exertions were directed to providing for the personal safety of the members; he did not send a message to recall sir Nathaniel Conant; he was gone, and he did not know where to send for him." And then he was directed to withdraw.
Mr. Kinnaird, a magistrate of the Thames Police-office at Wapping, was then called in; and, in answer to the questions put to him by Mr. Speaker, stated, "That he is a magistrate of the Thames Police-office at Wapping, and received orders last night to bring up the establishment to-day, to preserve the peace at Westminster: it was ordered by lord Sidmouth, that one magistrate from each office should attend him at twelve o'clock this day; he had himself been here the greater part of the day; some of his constables waiting from two o'clock at the Temple-bar, and the rest of his party was stationed from Parliament-street to Charing-cross: the establishment of the Thames Police-office is about 50 constables or thereabouts; some of them were placed in Westminster-hall, some at the side entrance and other avenues near the House: he observed the disturbance and anxiety of the mob to get into the avenues to the House; he saw no obstruction to members, and was not called upon to give assistance to any other magistrate: he was at the bottom of the stone stairs within side, about 10 o'clock; when outside he saw no pushing, shoving, or hooting: he did not come in the place of sir Nathaniel Conant; his station was sometimes inside, sometimes outside; when occasionally outside, he was attended by some of his peace officers; he is uncertain whether he saw any members go in or come out; he saw no persons obstructed." And then he was directed to withdraw.
Mr. Birnie, a magistrate of the public office Bow-street, was then called in; and, in answer to the questions put to him by Mr. Speaker, staled, "That he is a police magistrate at the Bow-street office; he attended at three o'clock with 40 constables; most of them were placed in Palace-yard; some were at the side entrance, where he saw a great mob, and many

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members justled, hissed and hooted: he and his constables did not apprehend any person for breaking the peace; he saw no ringleaders; a mere mob without direction; and he was occupied, as the first object, in protecting members of parliament; one of his constables has been wounded with a stone; but the offender escaped through St. Margaret's churchyard: the civil force was insufficient; he brought 40 from Bow-street; each of the other police-offices sent 7 or 8; he believes 7; the Thames Police-office sent a larger number than the rest." And then he was directed to withdraw.
Lord Castlereaghrose again and said, that the evidence appeared quite sufficient to establish the necessity of the interposition of the military for the protection of the members of parliament. Whether the conduct of the magistracy had been as vigilant as possible, was a point that might become a question of inquiry. A future day might be appointed, with a view to inquire into that matter, and to provide more certainly for the security of members upon future occasions. He then moved that the minutes be printed.
Mr. Lambtonexpressed himself satisfied with the explanation which had been afforded with regard to the employment of the military on this occasion, but vindicated his motives in bringing the business under the consideration of the House.
Lord Castlereaghwas convinced the hon. gentleman had no other motive for the course which he had pursued than that just jealousy which ought to be entertained of the employment of a military force, where the exertion of the civil power might be deemed insufficient.
Mr. Wynnthought the House under great obligations to the hon. gentleman. The discussion was necessary, that the House might show its just constitutional jealousy. Though satisfied on the chief point, yet he thought the conduct of the magistrates open to inquiry. They did not appear to have been sufficiently active, and he thought they should be admonished by the Speaker, and desired to pay a strict regard to their duty in future, since a similar inconvenience might recur even to-morrow.
Mr. Whitbreadwas convinced that the military were not called in till it was necessary, but perhaps the civil power had not done its duty. He thought they had better continue this business then, and proceed with the Corn Bill on another day.
Lord Castlereaghwas adverse to any such proceeding this evening, as the attendance of these magistrates might he necessary at their several stations. He however observed, that no absolute blame appeared to him fairly imputable to the conduct of the magistrates.
Mr. Addingtonconcurred in this opinion, observing, that the principal magistrate, sir N. Conant, had been called away by riots in another quarter of the town. The right hon. gentleman vindicated the measures taken by the Executive.
Mr. Whitbreadthought that the Executive had done its duty, but was inclined to believe that the civil power had not been sufficiently active.
The minutes were ordered to be printed, and taken into further consideration on Monday next; also that the said high bailiff and magistrates do then attend. It was likewise ordered, That the said high bailiff and magistrates do repair to their several posts forthwith, and prevent any further outrage or disorder in the passages to and about the House, during the time the House shall continue to sit this evening, and until after the departure of the members.

CORN BILL.
The House then resolved itself again into a committee on the Corn Bill.
Mr. Baringrequired to know upon what ground it was that 80 s. had been fixed upon as the price necessary to the encouragement of the farmer, as no explanation upon this point had yet been given by the authors of this Bill?
The gallery was not re-opened during the remainder of the evening; but we understand that the following members participated in the debate which ensued, viz. Mr. Baring, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Marryatt, Mr. Alderman Atkins, and lord Castlereagh.
Lord Castlereaghcontended strenuously that 80 s. was not too high a price in the present situation of the agriculture of the country. He reprobated the principle of making it a temporary measure. Some permanent regulation was indispensably necessary, and every parliamentary proceeding was revocable at the discretion of the Legislature. On a subject so calculated to agitate the popular mind it was not desirable to protract or multiply discussion. For the sake of the lower orders, who were affected not so much by an actual price as by uncertainty or fluctuation, he

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wished to see the Bill before the committee pass into a law.
Mr. Baringreplied to the speech of the noble lord, which he considered as the least argumentative and the most declamatory that had been delivered on the subject.
The committee then divided:—For the Amendment, 77; Against it, 208; Majority, 131. The House then resumed, and the report was ordered to be received on Wednesday.