Commons Sitting of 25 March 1814

ELECTION LAWS IN IRELAND.
Sir F. Floodrose to give notice of a Bill of a very important nature, for which it was his intention soon to move. United as Great Britain and Ireland now were, it was desirable to assimilate the law of the two countries. He believed that such was the opinion of every member who heard him; for no one could deny that—
The Speakerrequested the hon. member not to enter into any argument, but to confine himself to a simple notice.
Sir F. Floodthen added, that the object of his Bill would be, to limit the continuance
360
of the poll during election contests in Ireland, in the same way as it was now done in this country. He could not name the precise day on which he would bring forward the subject; but it would not be until after the recess, as until after that period the presence could not be expected of many members from the sister country, whose assistance in the measure would be indispensable. There had been a recent instance, in the election for the county of Mayo, of the ill effects attendant upon the existing unlimited duration of election contests; the result of which was, inevitably, not only to injure the parties immediately engaged in them, but to disturb and harass the whole country; besides—
The Speaker again called the hon. baronet to order, and sir F. Flood sat down.

CORRUPTION OF BLOOD, AND PUNISHMENT OF HIGH TREASON.
Sir S. Romillybrought in his Bills for taking away the corruption of blood consequent on attainder for felony and treason; and, for altering the punishment of high treason. They were read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday the 18th April.

CLERGY PENALTIES BILL.
This Bill was read a second time. On the motion (by Mr. Bathurst) that it be committed,
Sir W. Scottwished to be allowed to say a few words in reply to some remarks which he understood had fallen yesterday from the hon. member for Bedford, on his (sir W. Scott's) absence from the House. The fact was, that he did not think it likely that any discussion could arise in that stage of the Bill. If he had foreseen the possibility of such an occurrence, he would have spared the hon. gentleman the performance of that part of his public duty. There were other insinuations which the hon. member for Bedford had chosen to throw out with respect to him; and one was, that he had taken the Bill out of the hands of a worthy and hon. gentleman. He confessed that he thought his character and conduct in that House would have saved him from such an imputation. The fact was, that the Bill introduced by that hon. person (for whom he had the highest respect, and whom he met on terms of great intimacy) had for its sole object to relieve the clergy from prosecutions under the Act of Henry 8. That hon. person expressed a disinclination

361
to render his measure a prospective one, and it was on that account he (sir W. Scott) had adopted it. He could assure the hon. member, that he had not contemplated the task without feelings of the greatest dismay, knowing the difficulties which attended it, and which arose, not only from the nature of the subject, but from the contending opinions of those who were interested in it. In proceeding with the undertaking, he was not disappointed in his expectation of strong opposition—an opposition so strong, as to induce him in many instances to adopt the views of others, although they were extremely repugnant to his own judgment. Without meaning to disclaim his own share of the measure, he could assure the hon. gentleman that the Bill did contain clauses, not less in hostility to his own opinions, than they could possibly be to those of the hon. gentleman himself. But the matter had been reduced to a question of discretion; and it had remained for him to determine only, whether to proceed with the Bill so altered, or to expose the clergy to the prosecutions pending against them. When he said this, however, he did entertain a hope that the inconveniencies which the clergy might experience from some parts of the Bill, might be balanced and remedied by the securities afforded them in the other parts. He understood that the hon. member had intimated that he (sir W. Scott) had chaunted the praises of the Bill. He was certain that neither the hon. member nor any other person had heard him do so, either in public or in private. The responsibility for the regulations which the Bill might contain when passed into a law rested, not with the individual by whom it was proposed, but with the legislature by whom it was ultimately established.
Mr. Whitbreadexpressed his regret that the hon. and learned gentleman should have felt any uneasiness in consequence of what had fallen from him yesterday. If the hon. and learned gentleman had been absent yesterday on private business, or on an emergency, and intended to be present at all the other stages of the measure, then he also regretted that he had made the observations which he had made in the hon. and learned gentleman's absence. But if by those observations he had awakened the slumbering attention of the hon. and learned gentleman to the subject, he was persuaded that he had done a great public service. In saying that the hon.
362
and learned gentleman had taken the Bill out of the hands of the late member for Somersetshire, he by no means meant any improper imputations For the performance of that which a private man found impracticable, the hon. and learned gentleman was then, as now, selected. The hon. and learned gentleman admitted that he had always conceived the task a difficult one, and that he still found it so. He even allowed, that he had been compelled to introduce clauses into the Bill which he himself considered objectionable. Whether, however, any objectionable or ambiguous clauses were or were not the propositions of the hon. and learned gentleman, he was equally bound to come down and afford to the House the assistance of his great learning and abilities, in order that, to the evils which were dreaded, as adequate a remedy as possible should be provided. Another reason why he expected the presence of the hon. and learned gentleman in every stage of the measure was, that if the Bill should be carried into operation, and all the clergymen subjected to the penalties, and to be pursued by the informers as the Bill authorized, there had never existed a situation or circumstances in which the church establishment had been so much endangered by the certain degradation and ruin of a large portion of the inferior clergy. As on other occasions when the hon. and learned gentleman thought the church in danger, and he (Mr. W.) thought it was not, the hon. and learned gentleman did not fail to attend and to speak to the question; so on this occasion when the church was in real danger, and many of its members exposed to the horror of being dragged to a prison, he conceived the attendance and exertions of the hon. and learned gentleman peculiarly desirable. There was an open field for the exercise of the hon. and learned gentleman's talents and attainments, and he could not do a more eminent public service than by occupying it. Every day the grossest hardships among the clergy were to be met with, either in print, in manuscript, or orally. It appeared, if the statements of the clergymen were true, that Mr. Wright had entrapped some of them into a situation of difficulty for which there was no remedy; and had threatened, unless they compromised with him for a large sum of money, to take such measures as must ruin them for life. He denied that he had ever said, that the hon. and learned gentleman had

363
"chaunted" the praises of the Bill; and repeated his regret, that what he had yesterday felt it to be his duty to observe, had given the hon. and learned gentleman so much uneasiness.
The Bill was then ordered to be committed on Monday.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the House went into a Committee of Supply.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerrose, in pursuance of his notice, to propose that there should be granted an additional two millions, on account of the army extraordinaries; making, with three millions formerly granted, the sum of five millions. This sum was much beneath what would be required for the service of the current year. The sums voted for the service of last year amounted to nine millions; and the sums required this year would not certainly be less. This grant, he hoped, would not now be opposed; as opportunities would afterwards arise for discussion, when ministers should find it necessary to come again before parliament.
Mr. Tierneycould not help lamenting that a necessity should exist for bringing forward the present demand, as it was placing the House in a very awkward situation. The House had now met, after two long adjournments. When the first adjournment was proposed by his Majesty's ministers, it was unanimously agreed to. They had previously obtained from the House, grants to the extent of not less than 35 millions.—When the House again met, they were called upon by his royal highness the Prince Regent, without any assigned reason, to adjourn for another long period. And now, when they were again met, without being informed of the present state of affairs, or what had been done with the sums which the House had entrusted to the management of his Majesty's ministers, they were called on for other two millions. If this matter could be postponed for a few days, till the House should know what had been done with the sums already voted, it would be to him personally agreeable; for the present grant would be noticing less than giving his sanction to the prosecution of the war, without knowing the principles on which that war was carried on—whether those which were avowed at the opening of the present session were still adhered to, or whether a different system had been
364
adopted. This was making the House the mere pack-horse of the Treasury. He wished, therefore, this matter could be postponed for some time longer, till it should be convenient for his Majesty's ministers to give the information he desired. He should otherwise be recognizing that the 35 millions had been properly spent, and giving his consent to the expenditure of an additional two millions.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, if it was unpleasant to the House to grant such large sums of money, without being supplied with the information which was now demanded by the right hon. gentleman, it was much more unpleasant to those who came forward to ask the House to repose a confidence in them to such an extent. The right hon. gentleman had led the House into an error, in stating that the grants already made amounted to the sum of 35 millions. In this sum would be included the sums voted for the service of the Navy and Exchequer bills. [No, said Mr. Tierney.] The right hon. gentleman would, he believed, find it hard otherwise to make up his 35 millions.
Mr. Tierneysaid, the right hon. gentleman would find, if he put together all the sums which had been voted for the service of the army and navy, they would amount to no less than what he had stated. Would the right hon. gentleman say, that the sums already granted had all been applied in the way appointed to be done by the House? He did not wish at present to provoke any debate. He had to repeat, that 35 millions had already been voted in supply, without taking into account the sum voted to pay Exchequer bills. The right hon. gentleman had stated one thing, at which, he confessed, he was rather surprised; that it was more painful for him to ask money, than for the Commons to grant it. He could not but confess that that was something new. When the former sums had been granted, he knew the principles which were then professed by his Majesty's government; but he did not know what views might have been since taken. He wished, therefore, that the right hon. gentleman would postpone this grant till it should be convenient to come before the House, and explain the system upon which the war was to be conducted during the rest of the year.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerobserved, that if he had 35 millions voted, without any controul as to its particular application,

365
there would have been no necessity for coming forward at present to ask this sum. No minister of the crown could apply to the service of the army money which had been expressly voted for the service of the navy, or vice versa.
Mr. Tierneyasked, if he was to understand, that no money which was voted for one service could be afterwards applied to another, and at a future period repaid?
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that no great branch of the supply could be so applied.
Mr. Huskissonsaid, the servants of the crown had never been considered as at liberty to take the navy money for army services, or the money voted for the army for the service of the navy. In point of fact, however, no money had last year been applied for, on account of the army extraordinaries, till a much later period than this. It would have been more becoming, perhaps, to have asked a farther grant on account of the ordinary services of the army, and to have applied part of it to the extraordinary services.
The question was then put, that two millions should be granted for the extraordinary services of the army for 1814.—Agreed to.
Other sums were thereafter voted, which will be accurately detailed on the bringing up of the report.