Commons Sitting of 4 April 1814

CLERGY PENALTIES BILL.
Mr. Bathurstexpressed a wish that the further consideration of the report of the above Bill, which stood for to-morrow, should be postponed for a day or two.
Mr. Whitbreadsaid, that he, as well as others, was prepared to enter into a discussion of the merits of the Bill to-morrow; and, if it were put off for a short time, perhaps be should not be able to attend. He thought it should be postponed till after the holidays, if it were postponed at all.
Mr. Bathurstdid not see the necessity for so great a delay.
Mr. Whitbreadobserved, that if the assertion contained in the petition of Mr. Wright were true, that he could do away a great number of the allegations made against him by his opponents, sufficient time ought to be given to him for that purpose. Though the business might have been taken up with strong feelings of prejudice against Mr. Wright, yet he did not think there was any member of parliament but wished the real state of the case to be fairly investigated, and that everything which Mr. Wright had to state should be fairly heard.
Mr. Bathurstsaid, Mr. Wright had only desired liberty to contradict statements contained in one petition, that of Mr. Priest. If, by application to the House, or by any other means that appeared more likely to attain his end, he thought he could disprove the statements of his opponents, he might, of course, do so.
Mr. Whitbreadbelieved that a petition had been presented from Mr. Wright, praying to be heard by counsel, at the bar of the House, against the Bill; and every reasonable time should, therefore, be allowed him.
Mr. Bathurst then postponed the further consideration of the report until Monday the 18th instant.

COPPER CURRENCY.
Mr. Grenfellmoved, "That there be laid before the House a copy of the Memorial of certain manufacturers, dated the 4th of March last, and addressed to the lords of the Treasury, on the subject of the present state of our Copper Currency."
Mr. Whitbreadstated, that, in consequence of the refusal to take Tower halfpence in payment, which was so general throughout the country, he had heard that great distress was felt in the manufacturing districts. The shopkeepers would not take these halfpence; and, in one town, he was informed, persons who collected the poor rates had also refused them, by which very great inconvenience was produced. He was aware, that the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Vansittart) had done every thing in his power to check the evil, and a proclamation had been issued on the subject. He (Mr. Whitbread) was, how-ever, of opinion, that much good would result if a fresh proclamation were published.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, he could add nothing to what he had already stated on this subject. He had publicly declared, that the Tower halfpence were a legal tender, and that fact was still farther made known by proclamation. He was not aware, that any of the officers of government had refused to take them; if they had done so, their conduct was improper. Persons possessing halfpence of this description, would receive their full nominal value at the Mint.
Mr. Whitbreaddid not mean to throw any imputation on the course pursued by the right hon. gentleman. All he intended to say was, that a fresh proclamation might be of use. Instances, he believed,

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had occurred, in which persons, having nothing but these halfpence with which to purchase necessaries for their families, were, in consequence of their not being taken, obliged to apply for assistance to the parish.
Mr. Grenfellsaid, it was not generally known, but ought to be perfectly understood throughout the country, that the full nominal value was given, at the Mint, in Bank notes, for Tower halfpence.
The motion was then agreed to, and the Memorial ordered to be printed.
Mr. Grenfellthen gave notice, that, probably soon after the recess, but certainly before the period arrived when the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Vansittart) should make his arrangements for a new loan for the service of the country, he would call the attention of the House to the 26th of the King, which gave authority to the commissioners for the management of the sinking fund, to apply the whole or any part of that fund in furtherance of any loan or loans.

RUPTURE OF THE NEGOCIATIONS.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer:—I am authorised by his royal highness the Prince Regent, to inform the House, that the negociations lately opened at Chatillon have terminated in a rupture, and that a further communication on that subject will speedily be made to parliament. I am happy to be able to state, that the mode and spirit in which these discussions have been conducted and carried on to the point of their termination, have met with the entire concurrence and approbation of all our Allies; and that they are about to submit a Declaration to Europe, and to the world, in which they will explain the principles by which they have been guided, and justify themselves of all blame in the failure of this pacific attempt. As soon as this Declaration is issued, and shall reach this country, it is his Royal Highness's intention, that it be laid, together with all papers and documents relative to the late conferences, before this House.—I cannot, with propriety, say any thing more upon the subject at present, and shall therefore move the order of the day.
Mr. Ponsonbywished to ask, in the first place, whether all the papers which were necessary to enable the House to form a correct judgment on the negociation would be laid before them? and, secondly, at what time the communication would be made?
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that no communication would be made of any thing, the disclosure of which would be detrimental to the country; but that every disposition existed on the part of his Majesty's government to afford the fullest information to the House. It was impossible to ascertain exactly at what time the Declaration would arrive in this country; but, if possible, it would be laid before parliament, with the other papers, shortly after the recess. Full time would then be given to the House for the consideration of the papers; as there was no disposition on the part of his Majesty's government to press prematurely for a determination on the subject.
Mr. Ponsonbydeclared himself perfectly satisfied with the explanation.

ADJOURNMENT.
Mr. Ponsonbysaid, inconsequence of what had fallen from the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Vansittart), who had just made a communication to the House by the authority of his royal highness the Prince Regent, he begged leave to ask, what duration it was his intention to give to the next adjournment? When they last had some conversation on this point, the right hon. gentleman said, that the adjournment would be of the usual length, which would carry them to that day fortnight; for he believed, the ordinary practice was, to adjourn on the Thursday before Good Friday, to the Monday week following. The right hon. gentleman had told the House, that they would not have any information immediately from their own government on the subject of the negociation, but that they must wait till the Allies had published their Declaration on the continent—which, when received in this country, would be laid before parliament, accompanied by such papers as would enable the House to form a correct judgment on the circumstances. He recollected the right hon. gentleman (when the conversation took place to which he had alluded,) observed, that the adjournment would not be of greater length than usual, but that it might probably be shorter. Now, it was material for the House to know, whether the right hon. gentleman intended to propose an adjournment of the ordinary length, or to shorten it. Because if they were to depend on the Declaration of the Allies being sent to this government, before any communication could be made to the House, it must be evident to every man,

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that the time might be prolonged at the pleasure of those Allies; and the House, during the whole period, might remain without any communication from his Majesty's ministers on this most interesting subject, in consequence of the Declaration being kept back. This would be a very awkward situation both for parliament and the country. The proper course of proceeding he therefore thought would be, not to adjourn, in the first instance, for so great a length of time as was intended, but to shorten it considerably. Parliament would thus have an opportunity of acting according to circumstances. In that view, the shorter the period of adjournment the better, and he could not conceive any reason which called for a recess of more than a very few days.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, it was intended to adjourn the House, on Thursday next, till Monday fortnight.—With respect to the Declaration of the Allies, it was clear that they must be most desirous to lay their conduct before the world as speedily as possible. Therefore, little doubt could exist, but that they would publish their Declaration immediately after the rupture of the negociation. He hoped, however, that, about the time when the intended adjournment would terminate, his noble friend (lord Castlereagh), who was best able to explain the circumstances connected with the subject, would have arrived in this kingdom. If, however, the allies should change their intention of publishing a Declaration, it would, of course, be the duty of government to give to the House such information, with respect to their conduct and principles, as might be deemed necessary.
Mr. Ponsonbysaid, in all former cases of that kind, it was not customary for this country to wait for information, and to stay proceedings in parliament, depending on a Declaration to be published by their Allies. He admitted, that a Declaration of their Allies generally preceded the notice, in parliament, of subjects of this nature; but the present proceeding was entirely different—because the right hon. gentleman expressly stated, that they were not to receive any information until the Declaration of the Allies was received in this country. But if they vacillated in the course they proposed to pursue, or if they changed their intentions altogether on the subject of a Declaration, then government would state something on the
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subject themselves; so that, in fact, it all depended on the conduct of the Allies. This was a most novel situation—that they were to depend on the conduct of other powers for information, and not on the act of the British government itself. This was a state of things perfectly new, and such as was never before known in parliament. Nor did he think a proceeding such as this could be defended, by which parliament and the nation were kept waiting for information on a point of the utmost magnitude, until certain acts were performed by other states.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, the right hon. gentleman had misunderstood him. He did not mean to state, that the information to be laid before parliament was entirely to depend on the Declaration of the Allies; but that, as the Allies intended to publish such a document, it would be better to wait for it, that it might be submitted to the House, in conjunction with the other papers relating to the same subject. Besides, the whole of the Allies would join in the Declaration to which he had alluded; it might, therefore, be considered as affording an explanation of the conduct of this government.
Mr. Ponsonbyobserved, that, according to this explanation, he certainly must have mistaken the right hon. gentleman. He understood him to have stated to the House, by authority of the Prince Regent, that it was the intention of the Allies to publish a joint Declaration; and that, when it was received in this country, it should be laid on the table of the House, with such other papers as were necessary to elucidate the subject. If, however, he had not understood him correctly, he had nothing more to offer on the subject.

NEW CUSTOM HOUSE.
Mr. Baringsaid, that the motion which he was about to make appeared to him to be of such a nature, as would not call forth any opposition from the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Vansittart). Government were now about to cause a new Customhouse to be erected in the city of London; and when so large a portion of the public money as it must necessarily demand was about to be expended, it should, in some shape or other, come under the cognizance of parliament. He did not by any means suppose, that the plan was a bad or an improperly, expensive one; but a building of this description was of such importance, that an estimate

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of the expence of erecting it should be laid before parliament. The hon. gentleman then moved, "That there be be laid before this House an estimate of the expence of building a Custom-house in the city of London."
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, he had no objection to the production of the paper.
The motion was then agreed to.