Commons Sitting of 7 April 1812

PETITION FROM BLACKBURN RESPECTING THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL.
A Petition of several inhabitants of the town of Blackburn, in the county palatine of Lancaster, was presented and read; setting forth,
"That the Petitioners beg leave to address the House in consequence of a Petition having been transmitted to the House from several inhabitants of the said town and neighbourhood, particularizing many grievances which those Petitioners are stated to labour under, and praying for a revocation of the Orders of Council, that the advantages of the East India trade shall be enjoyed without exclusion or limitation, and especially that measures towards the pacification of Europe may become the subject of the immediate deliberation of the House; and that, feeling for the credit of the town of Blackburn, and disapproving of many of the sentiments conveyed by the said Petition, they should consider themselves wanting in duty to the House, and also personally to themselves, were they not to state to the House, that the Petition to which they allude is not sanctioned by the inhabitants of the town at large, that it originated with individuals, by whom it was privately prepared, that the signatures to it have been industriously obtained by lodging the Petition in different parts of the town, where persons have been employed to procure

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them; and that many of the persons subscribing the Petition have been induced by a representation that it would lead to a termination of the war, and without any consideration whether peace was attainable, except on terms which would probably produce our own subjugation; and that, though the Petitioners are anxious for, and deeply interested in, the revival of commerce, which by many is thought to have been greatly checked by the Orders in Council, yet, as they cannot fully see how far these Orders may bear upon and thwart the political views of our implacable and insidious enemy, they presume not to express a wish that the Orders should be rescinded, but trust that the united wisdom of the House will adopt such measures as may ultimately tend to the national prosperity; and that, though the Petitioners conceive that an open and unrestricted trade gives rise to a liberal competition, a generous emulation, and an increasing activity and exertion, yet they think it indecorous to dictate what ought to be done, in full confidence that the House will comply with the general wish respecting the East India Company's charter, and consult the general welfare; and that they lament, in common with the Petitioners before-mentioned, the horrors and calamities occasioned by war, and would be grateful for a re-establishment of public tranquillity; but, at the same time, they have the firmest reliance that no opportunity will be lost, or endeavours wanting, to cultivate a friendly intercourse with the united states of America, and to procure a general peace, upon terms of honour to the crown, being fully convinced that it is the earnest desire of the Prince Regent to relieve his Majesty's subjects from the burthens of an expensive war, to extend commerce, and to augment the prosperity and happiness of the kingdom."
Ordered to lie upon the table.

PETITION FROM THE SHIP BUILDERS OF LONDON RESPECTING THE EAST INDIA COMPANY.
Mr. Marryatt presented a Petition from several ship-builders in the port of London, setting forth,
"That an attempt having been made, in the year 1795, to legalize Indian built ships, the jealousy and fears of the various classes dependant on ship-building in that port were so much excited and alarmed, that they petitioned the legislature against the Bill which had been brought into parliament for that purpose; and that the
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Petitioners were at that time informed the measure was to be limited and temporary, and accordingly an Act, the 35 Geo. 3, c. 115, was passed, authorizing, during the last war, and for eighteen months after its conclusion, ships not British built, arriving from the East Indies on account of the East India Company, to enter inwards and outwards if such ships were actually built within the Company's territories; and that similar attempts having been subsequently made, some of the Petitioners applied, in 1797, to his Majesty's then government on the subject, when they received the most positive assurances that the regular and China trade of the East India Company should be confined to British built ships; and that under this persuasion, and convinced of the sincerity of the assurances so given to them, the Petitioners were enabled to quiet the alarms of the industrious persons before-mentioned, who had at that time formed meetings, and had entered into resolutions expressive of their fears and dissatisfaction of the measure; indeed, the impression which it appeared to have made on their minds was such as if their existence depended on its total relinquishment and suppression; but on a pledge being given to them by the Petitioners, in conformity with the explanation they had received from his Majesty's then government, that the measure was partial and temporary, and that the Company's regular trade would be continued in British built ships, these artificers and others were pacified and prevailed on to return to their respective employments; and that, in perfect confidence and reliance on the solemn assurances so given to the Petitioners, they did not entertain any apprehension that further encouragement or extension would be given to the employment of Indian built ships by the East India Company beyond the partial and limited admission of them under the statute before-mentioned in their irregular trade, which is the first instance of the legislature recognizing, as the Petitioners believe, of Indian built ships; they therefore observed, with astonishment and dismay, the recent extension of India built ships in the Company's general service; and that the Petitioners beg leave to state, that they understand the East India Company have formed a systematic plan of building and equipping ships in the East Indies for their regular trade, and that, under some specious pretext or other, they have already taken up several Indian

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built ships for that service, besides giving encouragement for the building there of ships of lesser tonnage for sale in Great Britain; and the Petitioners have reason to believe, that in furtherance of this system, many sets of workmen, particularly rope-makers, taking with them the machinery now used in that manufacture, have quitted this country for India, where, in a few years, they will disseminate the knowledge they possess, to the manifest injury of the trade of this country; and that the fears of the Petitioners were increased from having found, in the course of 1809, that, by a clause introduced into an act of parliament, embracing other objects, which was passed in 1802, namely, 42 Geo. 3, c. 20, sec. 6, the admission of Indian built ships to entry in Great Britain, as before stated, has been extended, to continue in force during the Company's monopoly; and that it is under this Act the directors have taken up the Indian built ships before-mentioned for their regular trade, notwithstanding the reasons alleged by them in their third report of the 25th of March 1802 on the private trade, of the impolicy of employing ships of that description, and the Petitioners beg leave most respectfully to refer to the serious facts therein stated in favour of the employment of British built ships in the Company's service; and that the Petitioners were not aware of any intention to extend the provisions of the Act, first before-mentioned, otherwise they would have appealed to the legislature, on the latter occasion, for that protection which they now most humbly solicit of the House; and that, under these circumstances, the Petitioners, with the greatest deference and respect, venture to appeal to the House, as the crisis appears to them to have arrived when it is to be considered, whether the extensive establishments which have been formed within the port of London for ship-building, mast-making, rope-making, sail-making, and the various and numerous branches of trade and manufacture connected with them, in which are employed so many thousand individuals of the most estimable classes in a maritime country, are to be sacrificed to the interests of the settlers in India, and to a mistaken notion of economy which will ultimately prove as prejudicial to the Company as ruinous to the state; and that the Petitioners humbly presume it will be admitted that these establishments are not the production of a few years, but that they have gradually risen
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with the trade and naval power of the country; and that on them, in a great measure, must depend their continuance, as the private yards, especially those in the port of London, are the great nurseries for the King's yards, yielding on the commencement, and affording in the progress of a war, a continual supply of able-bodied men for the public service, and, on the return of peace, an asylum for them when discharged from it; and that the Petitioners refrain from further observation on the impolicy of the introduction of Indian built ships into the Company's regular service, and into the general trade of the country, and of having extensive marine establishments in the East, which must inevitably conduce to that species of colonization which has already proved so disastrous to Great Britain, it being evident, that the building equipment and employment of such ships will reverse the natural order of the Indian trade, estrange the affections of the persons engaged in it from the mother country, make India the commencement and termination of their voyages, and lay the foundation of a system which will render more equivocal and precarious the continuance of British influence and British power in that quarter, of the globe; and that the Petitioners humbly hope that the legislature will, in future, confine, by statute, the regular and China trade of the East India Company to British built shipping, and that the permission granted to the East India Company by 42 Geo. 3, c. 20, sec. 6, may not be renewed or continued after the expiration of the period limited by that Act."
Ordered to lie on the table.

PETITIONS FROM PAISLEY, GLASGOW, KIRKALDY, AND KILMARNOCK, AGAINST THE RENEWAL OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.
A Petition of the magistrates and common council of the town of Paisley, in council assembled, was presented and read; setting forth,
"That the charter of the united company of merchants of England trading to the East Indies being soon to expire, the Petitioners presume to express their sentiments on a subject peculiarly interesting to that populous and manufacturing district of the country, as well as to the nation in general: and that they, in common with the rest of their fellow subjects, conceive that they have a right to a free trade with all parts of the British empire, and other countries in amity with the

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united kingdom; and they are humbly of opinion that the great object of all legislative regulation in the commercial concerns of the country is the protection of this equal right in the subject, and the further extension of a just and legitimate commerce, and that therefore all monopolies, which exclude the general body of the people from this commerce, are a violation of their natural rights and privileges; and that, of the injurious consequences at-tending all attempts at an exclusive traffic, the Petitioners have good reason for concluding the present monopoly of the East India Company affords renewed evidence, it being not only prejudicial to the general interest of the country, but also, if they are rightly informed, unprofitable to the Company itself, whose capital, there is strong reason for believing, is by no means adequate to so extended a trade; and that, in the present depressed state of the manufactures and commerce of that part of the united kingdom, every measure of assistance that the House can afford, ought to be exerted, and the Petitioners look up with confidence, and indulge the most anxious hope, that partial considerations will not be permitted to sacrifice and set aside their most serious and important interests; and that, from these and various other considerations, the Petitioners do humbly and earnestly pray, that the House will adopt measures for the total abolition of the commercial monopoly of the East India Company at the expiration of their present Charter, or at least that such monopoly may not be permitted to deprive British subjects of those privileges allowed to neutral nations; and that the charter, if renewed, may be made subject to such modifications and conditions as may be best calculated for promoting the commerce and manufactures of the united kingdom."
A Petition of the bailies and trustees of the united towns of Port Glasgow and Newark, was also presented and read; setting forth,
"That under the present pressure upon the trade of this kingdom by its inveterate enemy, the Petitioners do conceive that every possible relief should be given to the mercantile and manufacturing concerns upon which depend, in a great measure, the finances of the country; and that a free trade with the British possessions in India, and with the other territories east of the Cape of Good Hope and west of
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Cape Horn, offers a very considerable substitute for what the enemy has shut up from this kingdom in Europe; and that the United States of America, and other countries in amity with his Majesty, have long enjoyed the privilege of trading to our India possessions, from which our fellow subjects have been excluded; and that whatever political or other reasons may have heretofore existed for such an exclusion, the Petitioners presume that the present period of distress calls loudly for an effectual removal of that exclusion upon the termination of the present charter of the East India Company; and praying the House to adopt such measures as may give relief in this respect to the subjects of this realm."
A Petition of the trades house of the city of Glasgow, was also presented and read; setting forth,
"That from the present depressed state of the commerce and manufactures of this country, arising from the very limited channels for exportation, owing to the continental restrictions lately laid thereon, the Petitioners have observed with deep regret the shock which the trading and manufacturing interests of the united empire has thus sustained, and the consequent state of distress and poverty which many thousands of their constituents employed in the manufactures of that city and neighbourhood, as well as the manufacturers and artizans throughout the kingdom, have been reduced to without any immediate prospect of being soon restored to their former situation; and that, impressed with these feelings, and being convinced of the baneful effects resulting from whatever tends to cramp the mercantile and trading interests of this kingdom, the Petitioners take the liberty of suggesting, and earnestly recommending to the serious consideration of the House, the policy of discontinuing the privilege or monopoly hitherto enjoyed by the East India Company, of trading to all those countries comprehended between the Cape of Good Hope and the straits of Magellan exclusively, to the prejudice of all the other subjects of the empire; and that, as the inhabitants of the United States of America, and indeed the subjects of every other government in amity with this country, enjoy free commercial inter-course with the British possessions in India, the Petitioners consider it a hardship, bordering on injustice, that the subjects of

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this kingdom should be burdened, to a certain degree, with the expence of the naval and military establishments for defending those possessions, while they are deprived of that free commercial intercourse which is enjoyed by foreigners; and that if, therefore, a free trade with the large proportion of the population of the globe, comprehended under the exclusive grant to the East India Company, were to be afforded to the mercantile talent and capital of this empire, the Petitioners are hopeful that a channel would thereby be opened up, which would not only baffle the attempts of our insidious and inveterate enemy, but give useful and profitable employment to mercantile capital in general, and thereby in a great degree give relief to the labouring and at present distressed state of the manufacturers and artizans of this kingdom; and praying the House to adopt such measures as may render it lawful for any of his majesty's subjects, from and after the expiry of the East India Company's present Charter, to carry on, from any of the ports of the United Kingdom, a free and equal trade with the countries between the Cape of Good Hope and the Straits of Magellan."
A Petition of the provost magistrates and town council of the royal burgh of Kirkaldy, in council assembled, was also presented and read; setting forth,
"That as the Charter under which the East India Company enjoy an exclusive trade to the countries lying to the East of the Cape of Good Hope, and to the West of the Straits of Magellan, will expire at no distant period, the Petitioners are desirous to draw the attention of the legislature to that subject; they feel themselves particularly called on to do this at the present time, when their manufacturing and shipping interests, as well as those of their fellow subjects, are suffering the severest pressure from the Continental restrictions imposed by the enemy, and other causes necessarily connected therewith: and that at this enlightened period the petitioners conceive, that it is unnecessary for them to state at any length the injurious effects and general inexpediency of commercial monopolies, or the advantages that would result to the trading and manufacturing interests of this kingdom, were the extensive and populous countries above-mentioned laid open to the industry and mercantile enterprise of all the subjects
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of this empire; and they beg leave shortly to express it as their opinion, formed on deliberate consideration, that no monopoly whatever should be granted or continued which may have the effect of precluding the merchants and ship-owners of this kingdom, in every port thereof, from enjoying all the benefits of a free trade with every country to which the British Flag is admitted, subject always to such regulations as the government and legislature may deem just and expedient for national purposes; and that the Petitioners hope for further indulgence while they suggest two considerations in relation to this subject, which appear to them to have strong claims to attention: first, that to many of the countries comprehended under their exclusive charter, the East India Company have never traded, and to which their limited capital will never permit them to extend their connections in trade; it seems therefore difficult, if not altogether impossible, to assign any good reason why other persons and other capital belonging to the same country should not be allowed at any rate to do that for which the present monopolists are inadequate; second, the subjects of States in amity with his Majesty, and particularly those of the United States of America, have for a number of years past enjoyed the freedom of trade with the countries alluded to, while the subjects of Great Britain and Ireland have been excluded from that privilege, or at least the privilege to which the private trade is admitted, is fettered with such restrictions as to render it in a great measure nugatory; and that the Petitioners are totally unable to reconcile this arrangement with any principle of justice or good policy, and they cannot for a moment doubt the readiness of the legislature to remove so just a ground of complaint, while the removal of it would tend to greatly promote the commercial and political interests of the kingdom; and praying the House to take this subject into serious consideration, and to adopt such measures in respect thereof as shall most effectually serve to open new markets for the decaying manufactures and commerce of the nation."
A Petition of the magistrates and council of the town of Kilmarnock, in the county of Ayr, was also presented and read, setting forth,
"That the inhabitants of Kilmarnock, in common with those of other manufacturing

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towns, have for some time past experienced much inconvenience, and been subjected to many and severe privations, from the stagnation of trade; and that, considering this stagnation to arise in a great degree from the unprecedented measures resorted to by the government of France, for excluding our commerce from the continent of Europe, and believing the war in which the country is engaged to have been forced upon it, and that the government of the United Kingdom has no alternative but to persevere, and bring it to an honourable conclusion, the Petitioners have hitherto submitted, and will continue cheerfully to submit, to those privations; and that, whilst this is their determination, and whilst they observe that France is about to extend her anti-commercial regulations, the Petitioners cannot but consider it as a most fortunate occurrence that the existing charter of the East India Company is about to expire, because the legislature will thereby be enabled to open up the trade to India, and thus a ready channel will be found into which the capital and enterprize of the British merchant in general may be turned with advantage, it is humbly conceived to the kingdom at large; and that the adoption of such a measure will afford great relief to the manufacturing interest, and counteract so far the designs of the enemy, now peculiarly levelled against our trade; and that the Petitioners feel it would be improperly consuming the time of the House, were they to enter into any lengthened detail on the subject, the more especially as the matter is very fully and ably discussed in several applications from the first commercial bodies, now lying on the table; and praying the House to take the subject into serious consideration, and either to open up the trade to India and China generally, by refusing to continue the commercial monopoly of the East India Company, or to do so to such extent at least as may afford some vent for a free trade, which will have a most beneficial effect, the Petitioners are convinced, on the commercial concerns of the nation."
And the said Petitions were ordered to lie upon the table.

PETITION FROM MAYO RESPECTING THE ROMAN CATHOLICS OF IRELAND.
Colonel Dillonpresented a Petition from the Freeholders of the county of Mayo, praying the extension of a constitutional privilege to their Roman Catholic fellow subjects.
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He stated the Petition to have been resolved upon unanimously, by one of the largest county meetings he ever remembered to have taken place in that county. This was no inadequate criterion of the general sense of that county in favour of the Catholic claims, the freeholders of which exceed eleven thousand. He stated also that the Sheriff who presided at the meeting had signed the Petition. The Petition was then read, setting forth,
" That, at the time of his present Majesty's acession to the throne of these realms, the laws in force against his Roman Catholic subjects of Ireland deprived them of most of the rights of Irishmen, and of several of the common rights of mankind; that, by-the acts of 1778 of the Irish Parliament, recommended by his Majesty, Roman Catholics were empowered to vest the fruits of their industry in landed property, from which auspicious period the Petitioners observe the improvement of that country, in its agriculture, in its commerce, and in all the enjoyments and improvements of social life: immediately after this repeal followed a war between England and France, when, the whole army being withdrawn from Ireland, its defence was necessarily intrusted to its own people, of which his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects form so considerable a proportion; they, in common with their fellow subjects of every other persuasion, stood forward a volunteer army for its defence, at a time when there was a French navy, and a power of invading their country, and did by so standing forward, as is known, prevent an invasion of Ireland; some years after, in the 32d and 33d years of his Majesty's reign, by the special recommendation of his Majesty to his parliament of Ireland, a further relaxation of those restrictive laws against Roman Catholics took place; they were admitted by the legislature to vote at elections for members of parliament, and thereby to derive political power and consequence from that land which the former liberality and good sense of the legislature had allowed them to acquire; they were allowed to hold most of the employments of the law and the revenue; they were allowed to hold commissions in the army and navy; most situations of honour and emolument were opened to them; from which period the Petitioners have seen talents added to the war, and strength and efficiency to the army; they have seen the triumph of British armies-officered by Roman Catholics;

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they have seen the triumphs of the British navy increased: and they have seen as conscientious a discharge of all public duties performed by Roman Catholics of Ireland, in all situations, as by any other classes of his Majesty's subjects: those restrictive laws are to the present race of Protestants matter of history only, none of them having been enacted during his present Majesty's reign, or by any Protestant now alive; with the progressive repeal of those laws they have seen the energies of this empire raised to a pitch of glory unequalled in the page of history; from this experience they see with concern any remains of those laws making distinction between the Roman Catholics and Protestants of Ireland; and they humbly pray that the House will take into their consideration the wish and prayer of all classes and religious descriptions of that country, that a total repeal of every test, oath, declaration, or provision, which has the effect of subjecting Roman Catholics to any disability whatever on account of religious persuasion, may be repealed, and that the genius talent and energy of the whole of this empire be called forward for its safety in these times of unexampled difficulty; and that, in arranging this great and salutary measure, the Petitioners leave it to the wisdom of parliament to connect with this final settlement and conclusion of restrictive laws such adequate provisions for the maintenance of the civil and religious establishments of that part of the empire as may be deemed necessary, convinced as they are that such may be done with the strictest adherence to the tenets and discipline of the Roman Catholic religion; and that, on this basis of mutual satisfaction and security, it is the earnest prayer and advice of the freeholders of the county of Mayo, that all the rights of the civil constitution of this country be extended to his majesty's Roman Catholic subjects of Ireland."
Ordered to lie upon the table.

PETITION FROM THE EAST INDIA COMPANY FOR LEAVE TO PRESENT A PETITION FOR THE RENEWAL OF THEIR CHARTER.
Mr. Mills presented a Petition from the united company of merchants of England trading to the East Indies, setting forth,
"That, by an act of parliament made and passed in the 33d year of the reign of bis present Majesty, intituled, 'An Apt for continuing in the East India Company for a further term the possession of
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the British territories in India, together with their exclusive trade, under certain limitations, for establishing further regulations for the government of the said territories, and the better administration of justice within the same, for appropriating to certain uses the revenues and profits of the said Company, and for making provision for the good order and government of the towns of Calcutta, Madras, and Bombay; reciting, that it was expedient that the exclusive trade of the Petitioners, within the limits of their charter, which, by an act made in the 21st year of his Majesty's reign, for establishing an agreement with the Petitioners, and other purposes, was continued to them for a term thereby limited, should be further continued to them and their successors, under certain limitations and restrictions, for a term of 20 years, to be computed from the 1st day of March 1794, liable to be discontinued at or after the end of such period, upon three years notice previously given by parliament for that purpose: and that during the said further term all the territorial acquisitions obtained in the East Indies, which, by an Act made in the 7th year of his Majesty's reign, for establishing an agreement for the payment of a certain annual sum, for a limited time, by the Petitioners, in respect of the said acquisitions and the revenues thereof, and by subsequent acts, were continued in the possession of the said Company, together with the territorial acquisitions then lately obtained there, with the revenues of the same respectively, should remain in the possession of the Petitioners, without prejudice to the claims of the public or of the Petitioners, subject to such powers and authorities for the superintendence, direction, and controul over all acts, operations, and concerns which related to the civil or military government or revenues of the said territories, as had been then already made or provided, by any act or acts of parliament in that behalf, and to such further powers, and under and subject to such other rules, regulations, and restrictions relating to or concerning the said Civil Government, and the appropriation of the said revenues, as should be then made and provided by the authority of parliament; it was thereby enacted that the said territorial acquisitions in the said former acts mentioned, together with the territorial acquisitions then lately obtained in the East Indies, with the revenues

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thereof respectively, should remain and continue in the possession of the Petitioners for and during the further term by that Act granted to them in the said exclusive trade; subject nevertheless to the several regulations and provisions in that Act contained; and by the said Act his Majesty was empowered to nominate, constitute, and appoint, during his pleasure, such members of the privy council, of whom the two principal secretaries of state and the chancellor of the exchequer for the time being should always be three, and such other two persons as his Majesty should think fit to be, and who should accordingly be and be stiled, Commissioners for the Affairs of India; and the said board of commissioners were by the said Act invested with such full power and authority, to superintend, direct, and controul, all acts, operations, and concerns, which in any ways should relate to or concern the civil or military government or revenues of the said territories and acquisitions in the East Indies; subject nevertheless to such directions, rules, regulations, and restrictions, and to such appropriations of the said revenues as were by that Act made, provided, and established; and it was further enacted, that the Petitioners and their successors should have, use, and enjoy, and should continue to have, use, and enjoy, the whole sole and exclusive trade and traffic, and the only liberty, use, and privilege of trading, trafficking, and exercising the trade or business of merchandize into and from the East Indies, and into and from all the islands, ports, havens, coasts, cities, towns, and places between the Cape of Good Hope and the Streights of Magel Ian, and limits in an Act made in the 9th year of the reign of king William the third, or in a certain charter of the 5th day of September, in the 10th year of the same king, mentioned, in as ample and beneficial manner as the Petitioners could thereby or otherwise lawfully trade thereto, subject nevertheless to the several limitations, conditions, and regulations, in that Act contained, and also subject to the proviso thereinafter contained for determining the same, any former act or acts, matter or thing, to the contrary notwithstanding; and it was further enacted, that the Petitioners should at all times thereafter (subject as aforesaid) have, hold, and enjoy, and be entitled unto all, and singular the profits benefits and advantages privileges franchises abilities capacities
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powers authorities rights remedies methods of suits penalties forfeitures disabilities provisions matters and things whatever, which by any former act or acts of parliament, or by any charter or charters founded thereupon, or by any clause or clauses in the said acts or charters contained, were enacted given granted provided limited established or declared, to for touching or concerning the Petitioners, either by the name of 'The General Society entitled to the advantages given by an act of parliament for advancing a sum not exceeding two millions for the service of the crown of England,' or the body politic and corporate called by the name of 'The English Company trading to the East Indies,' or the body politic and corporate called by the name of 'The United Company of Merchants of England trading to the East Indies;' and not by that act, or any other act then in force, repealed or altered, according to the tenor and true meaning of the said acts and charters, and of that act, freed and discharged from all provisoes and conditions of redemption and determination in any former act or acts contained, and the same and every of them were and was thereby ratified and confirmed, and to continue to be held and enjoyed, and be practised and put in execution by the Petitioners and their successors, for the better or more effectually sealing and securing to them and their successors the whole sole and exclusive trade to the East Indies and parts afore said, and for the preventing trade thereto contrary to the true intent and meaning of that act, and for securing also their pos sessions estates and effects, and governing their affairs and business in all respects as fully and effectually as if the same profits benefits advantages trade privileges franchises abilities capacities powers authorities rights remedies methods of suit penalties forfeitures disabilities provisions matters and things were severally repeated and at large re-enacted in the body of that act, subject nevertheless to such restrictions covenants and agreements as were contained in the said acts or charters then in force and not therein or thereby repeal ed varied or altered, and subject also to the several enactments conditions limitations and provisoes in that act contained; and it was thereby further enacted, that at any time, upon three years notice to be given by parliament after the 1st day of March which would be in the year of our

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Lord 1811, upon the expiration of the said three years, and upon payment made to the Petitioners of any sum or sums which, under the provisions of any act of that present session of parliament, should or might, upon the expiration of the said three years, become payable to the Petitioners by the public, according to the true intent and meaning of such act, then and from thenceforth and not before or sooner, the said right title and interest of the Petitioners to the whole sole and exclusive trade to the said East Indies and parts aforesaid should cease and determine; and it was thereby further enacted, that nothing in the said proviso last there in before contained, or in any proviso in the said act of the 9th year of king William the third, or in the said charter of the 5th day of September in the 10th year of his reign, or in any other act or charter contained, should extend or be construed to extend to determine the corporation of the Petitioners, or to hinder prevent or preclude the Petitioners or their successors from carrying on, at all times after such determination of the right to the sole whole and exclusive trade as aforesaid, a free trade to in and from the East Indies and parts aforesaid with all or any part of their joint stock in trade goods merchandizes estate and effects, in common with other the subjects of his majesty, his heirs and successors, trading to in and from the said parts or limits; and by the said act it is enacted, that for and during so long time as the Petitioners should be entitled to the whole sole and exclusive trade and traffic into and from the East Indies and other places within the limits of their charter, subject to the provisions regulations and limitations in that act contained, the clear profits arising from the said territorial acquisitions and revenues in India, after defraying the charges and expences of collecting the same, should be applied and disposed of to the uses and purposes therein mentioned and expressed; and also that, during the continuance of the exclusive trade to the Petitioners, the net proceeds of their sales of goods at home, with the duties and allowances arising by private trade and all other profits of the Petitioners in Great Britain, after providing for the payment of bills of exchange then already accepted by the Petitioners, as the same should become due and for the current payment of other debts interest and other outgoings charges and expences
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of the Petitioners, their bond debt always excepted, should be applied and disposed of in the manner therein mentioned as by the said act, relation being thereunto had, may more at large appear; and that the notice required by the said act of parliament hath been given by the Speaker of the House, for determining the exclusive trade of the Petitioners on the 10th day of April, 1814; and that, since the said act was passed, further territorial acquisitions, yielding a large revenue, have been obtained by the Petitioners, and such acquisitions have been annexed to the several governments of the Petitioners in the East Indies, and sundry debts, to a large extent, beyond what are mentioned in or referred to by the said act, have been incurred by the Petitioners, in the defence and protection of the British possessions in India, and by reason of wars in which the British nation has been engaged with European powers; that such debts bear interest, and some of them are due in the East Indies, and others of them have been discharged by the Petitioners, by means of money raised on their credit in this country, under the authority of parliament; and that, by virtue of the terms of the obligations for other part of such India debt, further sums, to a large amount, will be payable shortly in this country, for which purpose it will be necessary for the Petitioners to raise a further sum of money here; and that the system established by the said act, for the government of the territorial acquisitions in the East Indies, for the management of the revenues thereof, and for the general conduct of the affairs of the Petitioners, hath been approved by experience; but the appropriations made by the said act of the profits arising from the territorial revenues in India, and of the profits of the Petitioners at home, appear to the Petitioners to be inapplicable to the present state of the Indian debts and resources, and of the concerns of the Petitioners; and that the Petitioners believe that it is undeniable that the exclusive trade carried on by the Petitioners has been a great positive advantage to the nation; and although they do not presume to slate, as an incontrovertible fact, that greater public benefit would accrue from its being continued in its present state than from its being any further opened, yet the Petitioners do venture humbly, but confidently, to assure the House, that the trade with China could not be opened in any degree

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without extreme danger; and that, if it should not be seen fit to enlarge the term now held by the Petitioners in the whole of the trade which they now enjoy without qualification, the Petitioners are ready to submit to such regulations as shall be just, and as parliament in its wisdom shall enact, for the conduct of the commercial intercourse of his majesty's subjects with those places which are within the exclusive limits granted to the Petitioners; and that, on account of the length and variety of the matters necessary to be considered and prepared in relation to the subject of this Petition, the Petitioners were unable to prepare a Petition, praying leave to bring in a Bill or Bills relative to the Indian territories and trade, until the time limited for presenting Petitions for private Bills was expired; and praying, that leave may be given to present a Petition to the House, for bringing in a Bill or Bills for continuing the possession government and management of the territorial acquisitions in the East Indies in the Petitioners, subject to regulation, and for altering the appropriations of the profits arising from the Indian revenues; and for enabling the Petitioners to raise such sums of money, or to contract such pecuniary obligations as their affairs may require, in respect of the payment in this country of debts originally contracted in India; and for settling the trade to the East Indies and China, and other places, from the Cape of Bona Esperanza to the Streights of Magellan, or that the Petitioners may have such other relief as their case may require."
Ordered to lie upon the table.
On the Motion that leave be given to present a Petition as desired,
Lord A. Hamiltonrose, not to oppose the motion, but to ask a few questions of the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer with respect to transactions of public notoriety, which had taken place since the House last met. At a meeting of the proprietors of East India stock, it was asserted, that the right hon. gentleman had been understood to have pledged himself to four points—first, an exclusive trade to China: secondly, the supply of whatever monies might be wanted for the service of the company, for two years; thirdly, the confining all Asiatic importations to the port of London; and lastly, the giving up to the Company the controul of the army in India. If
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the right hon. gentleman had not given pledges on these points, he should be glad to hear him contradict what had gone abroad; but if he had pledged himself, he could conceive nothing more disrespectful to the House, than thus to bind himself to measures without previously laying them before parliament.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerthought that nothing that bad passed at the East India House, or between himself and the directors, could at all letter the proceedings of parliament. He had thought it his duty, before he brought a subject of such importance before that House, to form his own opinion on it, and preparatory to submitting a measure to parliament, some correspondence with the directors of the East India Company had to him appeared necessary. Before a Bill was brought in on the subject, he had thought it proper to communicate to them what was the bearing of his mind on certain propositions involved in the question. That he had done so he thought was no mark of disrepect to the House, and no breach of his public duty. With respect to any particular opinion that he might have ex-pressed, if it should appear that he had taken an erroneous view of the subject, the sanction of the House could be withheld, and the propositions he might submit to them, it would be for them to reject; but at present he did not conceive he had a right to be called upon by the noble lord, or by the House, to state what those opinions were, or at all to discuss the subject, when they could not go on with the discussion, so as to make it lead to any practical result. He hoped the House would not call for his opinion on this subject, and that the noble lord would think it no disrespect to him that at present he declined to reply to the question he had put. He would now only state that he had taken a most erroneous view of the subject, if it was a breach of duty on his part to communicate with the directors of the East India Company, or if it was disrespectful to parliament to endeavour to form an opinion himself on the merits of the question, before he brought it under their consideration.
Lord A. Hamiltoncomplained of having been misrepresented by the right hon. gentleman. He did not say that he was wrong in forming any opinion he pleased, or communicating with the East India Company on the extension of their charter; he merely wanted to know, whether he,

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as minister, had made the pledges before alluded to.
General Gascoynesaid, that he should suffer no opportunity to pass without pressing upon the House the injustice of the regulations said to be connected with the renewal of the charter. Those regulations were injurious to the out-ports, and directly contrary to the articles of the Union with Ireland. He never could conceive that it could enter into the contemplation of government to make all ships coming from Asia discharge their return cargoes in the port of London. To-morrow he should make a motion, founded on the papers made public in another quarter. He should, however, previously move, that those papers be laid before the House.
Mr. Howarthcomplained of the delay which had taken place in the negotiations between the Board of Controul and the Directors. From the 13th of February, 1809, for two years and ten months, it appeared that no communication had been had between them.
Mr. Wallacecould not give an official answer to the question of the last speaker. He, however, proceeded to explain that which had been noticed, and was understood to say, that though he did not know that any official correspondence had taken place within the period alluded to, yet there had been communications and discussions on the subject. Some delay had occurred in consequence of its being thought desirable to wait for the Report of the Committee on the Finances of the East India Company. With respect to what had been said by the noble lord of the concessions which had been made by his right hon. friend, he thought they Were answered by those very proceedings on the report on which he had founded his statement, as it had there been stated, that all was conceded on the part of the company, while nothing was secured in return. The papers for which the hon. general intended to move, were papers to the production of which he did not know that any objection would be made, but he thought the motion at present might be premature.
The Petition was then presented and read; containing the like allegations as the last preceding Petition; and praying, "That leave may be given to bring in a Bill or Bills for continuing the possession, government, and management of the territorial acquisitions in the East Indies in the Petitioners, subject to regulation, and
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for altering the appropriations of the profits arising from the Indian revenues, and for enabling the Petitioners to raise such sums of money, or to contract such pecuniary obligations, as their affairs may require, in respect of the payment in this country of debts originally contracted in India, and for settling the trade to the East Indies and China, and other places, from the cape of Bona Esperanza to the streights of Magellan, or that the Petitioners may have such other relief as their case may require."
Mr. Creeveybegged to ask, what course it was intended to follow on this occasion.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that the Petition would be referred to a Committee of the whole House, and that certain Resolutions would be proposed to the Committee.
General Gascoynemoved for Copies of all Correspondence which had taken place between the Board of Controul and the Directors of the East India Company, respecting their present charter.
Mr. Wallacehad no objection to the production of the papers.
The Papers were ordered accordingly, and will be found in the APPENDIX to this Volume.

SCARCITY OF PROVISIONS IN IRELAND.
Sir John Newport, after adverting to the scarcity of grain and other provisions which existed in many districts of Ireland, and to the necessity of preventing the distillation from grain in that country, moved for a general return of all the grain, malt, meal, and flour exported from Ireland, from the beginning of the present year to the latest period at which the same could be made out.
Mr. Wellesley Poledid not rise to oppose the motion, but to state that he had not altered the opinion be had already expressed on this subject. He was convinced that there was no real scarcity of provisions throughout Ireland. The apparent deficiency was merely local, and arose from exports; but, at the same time, he allowed that it was the duty of government to allay the fears, however unfounded, which the people of Ireland entertained. With this view he intended to move, tomorrow, for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent the exportation abroad of Irish made spirits; and be also intended to move in the Committee of Ways and Means, for an additional duty on those spirits imported to any part of the empire.

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The right hon. gentleman then went over the comparative price of potatoes, and other articles of first necessity, in various counties from the 14th of January to the 8th of March, and concluded with asserting, that the advance in price had been but trifling.
Mr. Latouchewas of opinion, that it would be expedient to take into consideration the policy of putting a temporary stop to the distilleries.
Sir J. Newportsaid he had been informed, that the distillers had sent to Mr. Pole exaggerated accounts of their stocks of grain, and in confirmation of which he read part of a letter.
Mr. Shawof Dublin said, that the alarming price of provisions in Dublin had excited a strong sensation, so much so, as to induce the magistrates to make representations on the subject to the lord lieutenant, with a view to the adoption of some measure of relief. He agreed that the stopping of the distilleries now would be unjust, but thought they might be prevented from commencing again, as usual, in September, and that they ought to be obliged to suspend their work until the January following. Such a measure would, in his opinion, be sufficient to relieve the apprehension of scarcity.
Mr. Parnell, from all the information which he had been able to procure, was not of opinion that any sound apprehension could be entertained of a scarcity. It had been stated to him, that in many parts potatoes were still sold at 4d. per stone, which certainly could not be called dear. The fact, he believed, was, that the deficiencies were local, and fully compensated by the abundance of other parts of the kingdom. The evil, he conceived, was one that would naturally remedy itself, unless this effect should be counteracted by the activity of magistrates, or the government.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, the subject was of the highest importance, and if there was really a prospect of scarcity in Ireland, it deserved their immediate consideration. He hoped the House would keep in mind, that the information they were possessed of was at present very defective. It appeared that in many parts there was great abundance, and the mischief chiefly arose from the difficulty of transporting provisions from one part to another. The House would therefore be cautious how they stopt the exportation of provisions from Ireland to England. As to the stoppage of the distilleries in
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Ireland, it was to be considered, that if we stopt them where they were legal, we gave advantage to those which were illegal; which, while it would be no saving of the quantity of human food, would in a very material degree injure the revenue.
Mr. Pole, in answer to the observations of Mr. Shaw, stated, that the Irish government had received no information which could lead them to think there was a general scarcity. On the contrary, his opinion was, that there was plenty of grain, and that the increase of price and consequent alarm was owing to certain outrages and speculations which had taken place. If there was any apprehension of a general scarcity, he could assure the hon. gentleman that government would take any step which might be necessary, even were it the total stoppage of the distilleries; but as that was not the case, he thought they should not proceed to do what must injure the revenue, and the agriculture of the country.
The motion was then agreed to.