Commons Sitting of 7 February 1809

CONDUCT OF THE DUKE OF YORK.
The house resolved itself into a Committee of the whole house, to investigate the conduct of h. r. h. the Duke of York, the Commander in Chief, with regard to Promotions, Exchanges, and Appointments to Commissions in the Army, and Staff of the Army, and in raising Levies for the Army; Mr. Wharton in the Chair.
MR. JOHN FEW was called in and examined.
(By the Attorney General).
What business do you carry on? An auctioneer.
Do you know Mrs. Clarke? Not now, I do not.
Did you ever know her? In the year 1803.
Where did she thru live? In Tavistock-place, next door to Tavistock Chapel.
Did she order any furniture from you? No;
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at that time I lived in Bernard-street, Russel-square, and I had a share in a glass concern in Holborn. She called: and, by direction of my partner, I waited upon her; it was to consuit me about fitting up a Grecian lamp in her back room. After she had talked a little while, I sat down, and drank some wine with her. In the matter of conversation, from one thing leading to another, she seemed to be acquainted with almost every person that I knew. I sat there perhaps about half an hour; a person, whom I understood to be her sister, was present.
Did she represent herself as being a married woman, or a person who had been married? She talked of her late husband, and of her children, who were then at school.
What further passed? Nothing more than general conversation; I conceived that she knew almost every body that I knew. I can hardly describe her to you; for I never met with any person who, on the first interview, behaved so extremely polite and genteel to a stranger: I saw her two or three times, and drank wine with her; and she consulted me about the placing of some glasses, and the size and shape of some figures, whether they were toy large fur the room.
Did she give any orders to you? Yes; she desired I would have a Grecian lamp made, to fit up in the back room, which I believe came to about 20 l.
What was the price of that lamp? About 20 l., I cannot say exactly; the whole of the account with me was 20 l. odd.
When was the order given for this lamp? About the middle of May, about the 18th or 20th May; the first delivery to her was the 24th May, 1803.
Did you see any one but Mrs. Clarke at this house? I saw her sister and I saw her mother, but that was subsequent to my bringing an action against her. When I arrested her, she mentioned to me at the time that she had purchased that house of Mr. Burton, and given 1,200 l. for it: I applied to Mr. Burton, and he corroborated her having bought it, but I do not recollect the amount.
Did you ever observe any thing which led you to believe she was not a widow? I once called, I believe, in the morning, to see whether the lamp was properly hung; or I was asked by an upholsterer to get him a sight of the house, and I saw a cocked hat; I made an observation to the servant, and the servant said her mistress was a gay young widow, and had been at the masquerade the night before, and of course I did not suspect any thing after that.
Were you paid for those articles you furnished? Subsequently I was; I brought an action against her, but I was nonsuited.
How so? I do not understand the distinction, but she either pleaded her coverture, or gave it in evidence; I believe there is a distinction, but I do not know which it was.
You were defeated, upon the ground of her being a married woman? Certainly; I was in court at the time.
(By Mr. Wardle).
Did you ever write any letter to Mrs. C upon the subject of this demand? I am pretty certain I did not, I am almost certain I did not; do you mean the demand after my action or before; I believe I did not in cither case.
Do you recollect writing any letter, threatening to expose her? I cannot say, I might; I drew up a hand-bill and sent it to her, but whether I sent any note to her with that I cannot say; that hand-bill was warning the tradesmen in the neighbourhood of Gloucester-place, from trusting her.
Do you recollect sending the hand-bill to any body else in a letter? Yes, I do recollect, I enclosed one, to the D. of Y., directed to Portman-square; I think it was.
Do you recollect whether you wrote to the D. of Y. when you sent the hand-bill? I do not think I made one single letter inside; I am pretty certain I did not.
Are those letters your hand-writing? Yes, this is my hand-writing; I had not the least recollection that I had ever written it.
Is that the hand-bill? Yes, that is the handbill; I tried to get a copy of it when I was served with the Order of the House, but could not.
[The hand-bill and letter were delivered in and read.]
"Madam;—As I have not heard from you in reply to my last letter, I think myself justified in informing you, that in the course of a week the inclosed hand-bill will be published, which no doubt will prevent any other tradesman from subjecting himself to similar treatment. As the wording of the bill has received the legal sanction of very able men in the profession, I am perfectly at ease in regard to any additional threats that may he held out to me. I remain, Your obedt. serv.
"JOHN FEW, jun.
"22 June, 1804."
"Mrs. Clarke, No. 18,
"Gloucester-place, Portman-square."
CAUTION TO TRADESMEN.
"This is to give notice to the tradesmen in the neighbourhood of Portman-square, that they cannot recover, by law, any debt from Mrs. Mary Aun Clarke, formerly of Tavistock-place, Russell-square, but now of Gloucester-place, she being a married woman, and her husband now living, though his place of residence was unknown even to, herself or her mother. These facts were proved on the trial of au action, lately brought by a tradesman in Holborn, against this Mrs. Mary Ann Clarke, for goods actually sold and delivered to her; but she availing herself of her coverture (which, to the great surprise of the plaintiff she contrived to prove), he could not by law obtain any part of his demand; and, being consequently non-suited, an
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execution for her costs was, by her altorney, actually put into his, the tradesman's house!!!
"W. Marchant, Printer, 3, Greville Street, Holborn."
I understand you to have stated, that you were paid your bill; was that subsequent to that hand-bill being published? Of course it must be, I should hardly have published it, if I had had my bill. I received the debt and costs.
Did you recover your bill by any process of law? I could not.
You were paid it entirely through the will of Mrs. C.? It is impossible for me to say; I did not receive it from Mrs. C.
After being non-suited, and after that handbill had been published, Mrs. C. paid you your bill? I cannot say it was Mrs. C., I received the money through a Mr. Comrie; it was immaterial to me who paid it.
Did you know Mr. Comrie to he Mrs. C.'s professional man? That was impossible to say, Mr. Stokes defended the action, and afterwards Mr. Comrie paid me the money.
Is Mr. Comrie a lawyer? I believe so.
Do you know that he was Mrs. C.'s lawyer? It is impossible for me to know that, because one defended the action, and then it came to Mr. Comrie; it was impossible for me to tell.
Did Mr. Comrie defend the action against Mrs. C.? No; Mr. Stokes. I befieve so, because Mrs. C. told me afterwards, that she never authorized Mr. Stokes to give that plea.
Mr. Comrie paid you the money? By his clerk.
MR. THOMAS STOWERS was called in, and examined.
(By the Attorney General.)
Did you know Mrs. C. before she was married to Mr. C.? I did not.
Did you know her after she was married to Mr. C.? I did.
Do you remember the time when Mr. C. was married to her? I never knew the time.
What business did Mr. C. then carry on? When I first knew Mrs. C, by being wife to Mr. C., he was not in business just at that time; he was a young man.
What business did he afterwards carry on? That of a stone-mason.
Was that soon after his marriage? I cannot speak to that; I did not imagine, that he was married so soon as I understood he had an acquaintance with this lady.
Did he carry on the business of a stonemason while she was living with him? He certainly did.
For how long? Not less than 3 or 4 years.
Was she living with him all that time? As I never visited them, I cannot undertake to say she lived with him all that time, but I conceive she lived with him the principal part of the time.
Had they any children? Not less than 3.
Were those children born during the time he was carrying on the business of a stone-mason? Some of them were.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
Where did Mr. C. live at the time you speak of? The first part of the time he lived in Charles's-square, Hoxton; then he was not in business as a mason.
Was Mrs. C. with him at that period? Certainly she was.
How long did they live there? As I did not visit them, I cannot speak positively; I know it was not less than one year, and, I should imagine, not more than two.
Where did they live afterwards? I do not know of their living any where else, till they event to live in Golden-lane, where he carried on the business of a mason.
When was this? He commenced there somewhere about 1794, and he lived there about or 4 years.
Had Mr. C. a stone-mason's yard there? He had.
At the first place he lived at? In Charles's-square, Hoxton, he lived on his fortune; he had no business.
Did you visit at his house? I never did visit him at any time wherever he lived.
Did you know Mrs. C. by sight? Yes, I did.
Did you know when Mrs. C. parted with her husband? No, indeed, I did not.
You have no guess when she parted from her husband? No further than that it was after they quitted Golden-lane I understood.
Do you recollect who told you so? No; public report.
You know nothing about the matter of your own knowledge? I do not.
Where do you yourself live? In Charterhouse-square.
MR. JAMES COMRIE was called in, and examined.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
Do you know Mrs. C. I do.
Have you been employed by her in your professional line? I have.
What is your profession? A solicitor.
Had you ever any conversation with the D. of Y. respecting Mrs. C? In consequence of Mrs. C.'s wishing me to wait upon the D. of Y. I said that I should wish to receive a message for that purpose from h. r. h. I did receive such a message, I think in writing; in consequence of which I waited upon the D. of Y. in Port-man-square.
State what passed. The D. of Y. spoke to me upon private professional business; I therefore appeal to the chair, with great submission, whether, under those circumstances, I am bound to divulge it.
[The witness was directed to withdraw.
Mr. Fullerobjected to any question being put to the witness, which might lead
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him to disclose the secrets of h. r. h. as his client.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, he apprehended that it appeared by the witness's own account he was sent for as the solicitor of Mrs. C, and not as the solicitor of the D. of Y., and he was therefore bound to answer the question now put to him by the house.
[The witness was again called in, and informed, that it was the pleasure of the committee that he should answer the last question.]
His r. h. wished to know whether I could raise him the sum of 10,000 l. upon mortgage.
[The witness was directed to withdraw.
Mr. Wardlesaid, it was because he knew it was impossible for Mrs. C. to obtain money to the extent she did without such aid, that he had said on a former night, that a professional man was introduced to the D. of Y. for that purpose by Mrs. C., and he hoped he should be allowed to prove that fact, more especially as he had been so flatly contradicted upon this point.
Mr. Adam,feeling the last remark of the hon. gent. applied to something which had fallen from him on a former night, begged leave now to explain what he did say, and meant to be understood, namely, that the affairs of the D. of Y. with which he was confidentially intimate, were those with which he was charged confidentially as a trustee for liquidating the debts of h. r. h. But with that part of h. r. h.'s revenue reserved for his own private expenditure, he had had no interference.
[The witness was again called in, and proceeded as follows:]
I answered, that I believed I could. His r. h. after some conversation referred me to his man of business, Mr. W. Adam of Bloomsbury-square. H. r. h. asked me if I knew him? I replied, not personally, but by reputation. I mentioned that I knew him to be a man of very high character. Shortly afterwards, I called upon Mr. Adam, and saw him; I think he mentioned that h. r. h. had told him I was to call upon him (Mr. A.); we proceeded to discuss the business, and Mr. A. said that h. r. h. had occasion for that sum, I think he said to complete the purchase of some tithes in the vicinity of Oatlands; I am not quite sure as to that, but I think it was so; and he said h. r. h.'s then solicitors, Messrs. Farrer and Atkinson, would shortly send me the necessary abstracts, which they did. In the mean time, I had applied to n client of mine, a rich client, and he had agreed to lend h. r. h. the money. The abstracts were laid before a conveyancer, Mr. Walker of the Temple. We made some objections, I think, which is usual in those cases,

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'questions to be answered:' it generally happens to. The money was ready to be advanced, and the abstracts were returned to Messrs. F. and A. to answer those queries. I should state, that foe expedition (for it was mentioned that expedition was necessary) I had copies made of those abstracts to accelerate the business. I returned the abstracts to Messrs. F. and A., but those that I returned were never sent back to me, and the loan was afterwards declined, and Messrs. F. and A. desired me to send in my bill, which I did.
Had you ever any conversation, either at that time or any other, with the D. of Y. about Mrs. C.? I had.
Do yon recollect that he ever assigned any reason that was prejudicial to her character, when he parted with her? The D. of Y. stated to me, that he had been served with a subpœna to appear in the court of King's-Bench; I think it was on a trial which was then pending in which Mrs. C. was the defendant; which subpœna had been accompanied by a very severe letter, describing her very improper conduct in having pleaded her coverture to an action brought for goods sold and delivered; and I think, upon a bill of exchange, one or either, I do not immediately recollect which. His r. h. stated that that was the reason which occasioned the separation.
Do you mean to state, that you understood from the D. of Y., that she had done so without his knowledge? He did not state that; but he said, after such a thing as that, it was impossible but that they must separate, or words to that effect.
Did he complain of any other bad conduct in Mrs. C.? I do not recollect that he did. I think h. r. h. said, that he had sent the letter and subpoena to Mr. Adam.
Do you recollect any thing further that passed in the conversation? There was something passed about the allowance to be made Mrs. C.
Do you recollect what that allowance was? His r. h. and Mr. Adam being present, it was mentioned and agreed to, that she should be allowed 400 l. a year; but it was expressly mentioned that she must pay her own debts. Upon my mentioning the difficulty of that, for she had told me she was very short of money, h. r. h. said it was not in his power then to pay them, but that she had some furniture and valuable articles with which she could easily pay her debts.
[The witness was directed to withdraw.]
The Chancellor of the Exchequerappealed to the house and to the hon. gent. whether it was at all proper to proceed any further in a species of interrogation totally foreign from and irrelevant to the subject of enquiry, and which could throw no light whatever upon the charges of corruption preferred by the hon. gent. He would rather, indeed, put it to the good tense and discretion of the hon. gent. him-
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self, whether he thought it would at all contribute to his purpose, or be decorous towards the house, thus to occupy its time with a species of examination so foreign to the object proposed.
Mr. Wardleacceded to what appeared to be the wish of the committee, and consequently withdrew the question; but having one or two other questions to ask, desired that the witness should be called in again.
[The witness was again called in.]
Do you recollect paying a bill due to Mr. Few, for Mrs. C.? There was a Mr. Few who had a demand upon Mrs. C., and I paid that; I do not know the amount.
You paid it on her account? I did.
DAVID PEIRSON was called in, and examined as follows:
(By Mr. Wardle.)
With whom do you now live as butler? The hon. Mr. Turner.
Did you live as butler in Gloucester-place, when Mrs. C. was under the protection of the Commander in Chief? Yes, I did.
Do you recolluct in the summer of 1805 the D. of Y. going to Weymouth, and Mrs. C. to Worthing? Yes I do.
Do you recollect Ludowick, the servant that used to attend the D. of Y. being ordered by the Duke, on an evening about that period, to take a bank bill out and to get it changed? I do not.
Do you recollect any servant being ordered by the Duke to get a bank note changed? I recollect the housekeeper, Mrs. Favourite, bringing down a bill in a morning, and Ludowick going out and getting it changed and coming back and giving it to Mrs. Favourite again, and she took it up stairs.
Do you recollect any servant being ordered by the Duke to get a bank note changed? No.
Do you recollect Ludowick taking out a bank note to be changed? Yes, I do, on a morning.
Did you hear him ordered to do so by any body? The housekeeper gave him the note; I saw her give him the note, and he took it out.
Do you know the amount of the note? No, I do not.
Did you hear the housekeeper give him the order? Yes, I did.
Do you recollect what order she gave him; in what words? No, I do not in particular recollect what order she gave him; but she gave him a note, and he was to go and get it changed.
Are you positive that that note was not given on the night and the change brought back in the morning? I am positive I saw it given.
(By Mr. Brand.)
Was the D. of Y. in Mrs. C.'s house at the time this note was delivered to Ludowick to get changed? Yes, he was up stairs.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
At what time in the morning was this? Near eight o'clock.
Do you know that the Duke was up? I am not certain of that.
(By Sir James Graham.)
How long did you live with Mrs. C. in Gloucester-place? About 15 months.
State whether any and what servants of the D. of Y. came to Gloucester-place during that time? I never saw any one but Ludowick.
Can you state, as far as it came within your own knowledge, that no other servant of the D. of Y. came there? I never saw any other servant of the Duke come to the house, but Ludowick.
(By Mr. Lyttleton.)
In what year, and in what month in what year, did this transaction happen? About 3 years ago.
Do you know the amount of the note? I do not.
Do you mean that this passed about the month of January 1806? I mean in July or August, some time then about; it was hot weather when Mrs. C. went to Worthing; I do not recollect exactly the time, but it was in the summer time.
(By Mr. Lamb.)
How long was it before Mrs. Clarke went to Worthing; was it the day before or two days before or three days before? I do not recollect exactly, but it was a short time before she went to Worthing.
Was it more than three days? I cannot be exactly certain to the time.
(By Mr. Lytttelon.)
Is this the only note that you ever recollect Ludowick to have chanced? The only note.
Did Mrs. C. go to Worthing the same day that the Commander in Chief went to Weymouth; did they both leave London the same day? I think the next day in the morning that h. r. h. went away between twelve and one o'clock and Mrs. C. at four or five the next morning.
Was it the morning of the same day that h. r. h. went to Weymouth, that Ludowick took the note out to he changed? It was some morning a little time before.
Captain HUXLEY SANDON was called in, and examined.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
What interest had you in col. French's levy? I was concerned with him in the levy.
In what way and to what extent? A letter of service was given to us both, col. French and cap). Sandon.
Do you know Mrs. Clarke? I do.
Did you or col. French apply to Mrs. C. for
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her influence with the Commander in Chief, in order to your having this levy? In the first instance we were informed, that it was a person who had great interest with a leading person in this kingdom: we did not know at the moment that it was Mrs. C.
When you discovered it was Mrs. C., state your proceedings. We did not discover it till we had the letter of service.
What passed with the person whom you afterwards discovered to he Mrs. C., before you knew her to be so? We proceeded upon our letter of service.
Who gave you the information that took you to Mrs. C? Mr. Cockayne, who was my attorney, informed me that if I had any thing particular to ask for in the War-office, or at the Commander in Chief's office, in all probability he could recommend me to a person who could do any thing in that way for me that I chose to request.
Did he recommend you to Mrs. C.? He recommended me to her agent.
Who was her agent? I understood a music-master of the name of Corri.
Through the means of Mr. Corri had you any interview with Mrs. C.? I really do not know.
Had you any interview with Mrs. C.? It was a long time afterwards that I ever saw Mrs. Clarke.
How long afterwards? I should presume a month after the letter was granted; near upon a month; I cannot exactly say, perhaps, to a week; it might be three weeks.
When you had an interview with Mrs. C, can you recollect what passed between yourself and her? Nothing passed between. Mrs. C. and myself, because every thing was arranged and settled.
For what purpose did you apply to' Mrs. C.? It was settled previous to that; the letter of service was granted, and I had every thing that was asked.
For what did you apply to Mrs. C? Mrs. C. wished to see me.
What passed when she did see you? Very little. Col. French asked me to go to Mrs. C., who was, as we supposed, the lady, or the person, or the agent, for we did not at that time know whether it was male or female, at least I did not know; when I went to Gloucester-place, I found it to be a female.
Do you know whether col. French had, previously to that, seen Mrs. C.? Most assuredly he had.
Do you know when col. French saw Mrs. C.? No, I cannot pretend to say when.
Do you know whether col. French saw Mrs. C. before be received his letter of service? I rather think not; the letter of service was granted before he saw Mrs. Clarke.
Then you do know when col. French saw Mrs. C? No, I do not, for col. French wan going to Ireland, he was taking that part of the letter of service; the letter of service was so extensive, it was for England, Ireland, and Scot-

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land; he took for Ireland, and Scotland, and left me to take that for England.
At this interview between yourself and Mrs. C., what passed? I really cannot recollect.
Do you recollect the substance of it? No, he came to introduce me, merely to say, that was capt. Sandon, and this was Mrs. Clarke.
Do you recollect that the levy was spoken of that day? No; I cannot take upon me to say that it was mentioned.
Can you take upon you to say that it was not mentioned? No, nor can I take upon me to say it was not mentioned.
Do you recollect when you or col. French mentioned the levy to Mrs. C.? Col. French had seen her previous to my having ever seen her.
Had col. French mentioned the levy to her, previous to your seeing her? I really cannot say that.
Of your own knowledge, do you know that the levy had been mentioned to her? I really cannot say, col. French had seen the person who was to get that; he never mentioned to me whether it was male or female.
Who was that person? I really cannot say; I never knew her till I had the pleasure of being introduced to her, and then I found it was Mrs. Clarke.
When was the first time that you recollect having spoken yourself to Mrs. C. upon the subject of the levy? I really do not recollect any thing about it, for this reason, the business was entirely settled between Mrs. C. and col. French, and I thought I had nothing at all to do to interfere in it.
State the way and the terms on which the business was settled between col. French and Mrs. C. and yourself.—Col. French and Mrs. C. made it their agreement, which I did not understand; I was not present when they spoke about it.
What passed between col. French and yourself upon the subject? Of course we wished to get the levy; the letter of service.
What means did you take to get the letter of service? I understood from col. French, that he was to give a certain sum of money for it.
What passed between you and col. French upon the subject?
[The witness was directed to withdraw.]
Sir A. Pigottobjected to the questions, and wished the hon. gent. to shew how any conversation, which had taken place between the wilness and col. French, could be evidence against the D. of York?
Mr. Beresford,as the question had been asked, wished it to be answered.
The Attorney Generalhad not wished to interrupt the examination, or the course of evidence pursued by the hon. gent.; but as an objection had been taken by his learned friend, he must say, that the evidence was irrelevant.
Lord Folkestone,notwithstanding the
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legal opinion just pronounced, thought that any conversation between the witness and col. French, relative to the means of obtaining the letters of service, ought to be received as evidence upon the charge against the Duke of York.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerobserved, that the noble lord's argument did not apply to the case, because, putting Mrs. C. out of the question, and supposing the witness and col. French to have conversed upon what passed between the D. of Y. and col. French, his statement of such conversation would not be evidence. If they were to have what passed between col. French and the D. of Y., they must have col. French himself. He had nut objected to the course of his examination, because the hon. gent. having had notice not to proceed to the charge respecting col. French's levy without col. French, ought to have been sufficiently prepared, when he did enter on it, to go through with it. Besides, it would have been unpleasant to the house, that the hon. member should, under such circumstances, have been stopped in the course he was pursuing.
Mr. Yorkeagreed with his right hon. friend, that the course of the examination ought not to be interrupted, because it was desirable that the matter should be sifted to the bottom. Though he did not think that infamy would rest with the hon. gent., yet he was convinced there was something foul in the transaction, and that it would be found that bribes had been given to witnesses on this subject. It was the duty of the house to inquire into the matter to the bottom.
[The witness was again called in, and the question was proposed.]
When I saw him, he told me, as he had before, that he had settled every tiling with Mrs. Clarke.
Do you know what were the terms concluded by that settlement? Yes, he informed me that he was to give her 500 guineas.
What further? I understood that he gave her the 500 guineas afterwards.
Do you mean, that that was the only agreement with Mrs. C., upon the subject? I cannot take upon me to say what he made with her, that was the only agreement that I know of.
Did you yourself make any agreement with Mrs. Clarke? None.
You have stated, that of your own knowledge, you were not aware of any other bargain than the 500 guineas? Not till he went to Ireland; but previous to his taking leave of

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me, he told me that if she wanted more money, I was to give it to her.
To what amount did he authorize you to go? As tar as 5 or 6 or 700 l. more.
Do you recollect any application being made to Mrs. C., for any alteration in the original letter of service? There were a variety of alterations in the letter of service, because the bounty of different recruits were raised; in the first instance, we had it at 13 guineas, the bounty was raised to 19; we thought of course we were entitled to that 19 guineas; we applied to Mrs. C. to get that enlargement, without any occasion for doing it, for of course we could not get men at 13 guineas when the line allowed 19 guineas.
You mean, that the other recruiting parties were allowed 19, and that you were allowed 13? Of course.
And that you were not allowed the 19 till after you had applied to Mrs. C. to use her influence to get the 19allowed to you? All recruiting parties were precisely in the same situation; though we applied to Mrs. C, it must come otherwise, or our recruiting was at an end; we could not get a man.
You stated, that the oilier recruiting parties were allowed 19, but that col. French's levy was not then advanced? It was the order from government, that every recruiting party should receive 19 guineas, it was found that the 13 guineas was not sufficient, the bounty was raised; and though we had engaged to do it for 13 we could not do it for that; and on the general bounty being raised, we applied, and had ours raised too.
To whom did you apply? To the Commander in Chief, of course.
Then you did not apply, upon that occasion, to Mrs. C.? There was no occassion for it.
Do you recollect that you ever applied to Mrs. C. upon any other occasion relative to the levy? I do not recollect that we did.
As to boys? That brings something to my recollection about boys, that in every 100 men we were to have ten boys, which were to be allowed the bounty of the men; but the letter of service will state it better than I can, for it is in the letter of service.
Do you mean to state, that there was no alteration made or applied for with regard to boys, after the original letter of service? Not after the letter of service.
What alterations were made in that letter of service? The ten boys to the 100 men.
Was that done through the influence of Mrs. C.? I cannot take upon me to say, for col. French was the person who entirely finished the business with Mrs. C.
Do you recollect that you ever went to the Commander in Chief, in consequence of any communication or message sent to you by Mrs. C., at Lyon's Inn? I do not recollect it in the smallest degree.
Do you recollect any gentleman bringing you a note or message to such effect? I cannot take upon myself to say any thing about it; I do not remember.
Do you know Mr. Dowler? I once bad the pleasure of seeing him at Mrs. C.'s.
Do you recollect any thing particular that passed? Not a syllable whatever passed between Mr. Dowler and myself upon the subject.
Do you recollect Mr. Dowler calling upon you at Lyon's Inn? Mr. Dowler was never at my chambers; at least I never saw him there.
Do you recollect that, in consequence of any communication with any person at any time from Mrs. C, you attended on the D. of Y.? I once, in company with col. French, waited upon the Commander in Chief, to return him thanks for having given us the levy. I never saw the Commander in Chief afterwards upon that subject.
State what sum or sums of money were paid to Mrs. C. by yourself, or with your knowledge, upon this levy business. At various times, I conceive that I paid her 800 l.; it might be 850 l., but not more,
Do you recollect giving a check upon Mr. Grant for 200 l. in favour of Mr. Corri, on account of the levy? Perfectly well; but it was not a check, it was a draft at two months; but it was not for Mrs. C., it was entirely for Mr. Corri, who bad acted as the agent from her to Mr. Cockayne, the attorney.
Do you recollect any thing of a loan of 5,000 l. to the Commander in Chief, that it was in agitation should be advanced him by col. French? I never understood col. French to have 500 l. in the world; therefore bow he could advance five thousand, I cannot tell; for our account with our agent will shew we were very minus indeed, for we owe him 3,800 l. upon the levy.
You do not recollect any mention of such an advance upon the part of col. French? Most assuredly not.
You have stated, that 500 guineas was to be paid to Mrs. C. at first; and then, that you have paid her from 8 to 900 l. since? I think 850 l. I have the exact sums in my pocket-book; it appears by that that it is 850 l.
Can you state, whether that 850 l. arose out of any particular agreement, at so much a man raised, or in what proportion Mrs. C. was paid? It was to be general; if our levy had succeeded, we were to have made her a present of perhaps a couple of thousand pounds: It appeared to me there was no explicit agreement that a certain sum should be given. But our levy failed, and we were very much out of pocket; she was the only gainer, I believe, upon the business.
Do you recollect how you remitted her these sums yon have mentioned? Generally by bank notes; I generally gave them to her myself.
Did you ever give her any large sum of the 850 l. at once? 200 l. was the largest sum I ever gave her at once.
Endeavour to recollect, whether Mr. Dowler did not call upon you at Lyon's-Inn, and that you yourself might suite that Mrs. C was overpaid, and that you had no money for her at that time? No.
You do not recollect any thing of that circumstance? No; Mr. Dowler never called upon me with that message.
Col. French never stated exactly to yon the original bargain between him and Mrs. C.? I understood the 500 guineas in the first instance, and 200 l. to Mr. Corri, and it was left to my discretion to make up the 2,000 l. as the levy succeeded, or not; if we succeeded in the levy, we might have gone on to the 2,000 l. perhaps; if not, it was left entirely to my discretion.
(By Mr. Lyttleton.)
You have stated, that you never saw Mrs. C. till after the letter of service was granted; but in a former part of your evidence you have stated, that you had some dealings with respect to this business with one Corri, a music-master: what passed between yourself and Mr. Corri? Precisely what I have related; that he was to have 200 l. for the introduction, and any thing that Mrs. C. and col. French settled; he had nothing more to do with it.
I understand you to have stated that to have passed previous to the granting of the letter of service? The 200 l. was paid to him alter the letter of service was granted; because, if nothing was carried, he was to receive nothing.
This stipulation was made with Mr. Corri, in case he should succeed, by means of Mrs. C. in procuring the letter of service? He did not precisely know what it was we wanted of Mrs. C.; we did not tell him what we wished to speak to Mrs. C. upon.
You mean to state, that you only applied to Mr. Corri for an introduction to Mrs. C, without stating what use you meant to make of that introduction? We certainly did not inform Mr. Corri, the Music-master, what we meant to do with Mrs. Clarke.
You mean to state, that you only applied to Mr. Corri for an introduction to Mrs. C., without stating what use you meant to make of that introduction? Mr. Corri spoke to Mr. Cockayne, to make him a friend; Mr. Cockayne was the person that we had to do with upon the business altogether; Mr. Corri had nothing to do with it, he did not know what we were to do with Airs. C.; it was merely that he could get letters or any proposition conveyed to her.
What passed with Mr. Cockayne? I do not know what passed between him and Mr. Cockayne.
(By Mr. Herbert.)
You have mentioned, that several sums were agreed to be paid to Mrs. C.; state whether you know that fact of your own knowledge, or whether it is by hearsay from col. French? The 850 l. I paid myself; the 500 guineas, I understood from col. French, that he hail paid.
(By Mr. Barry.)
How often did you see Mrs. C. during the negociation respecting this levy? Previous to the letter of service being granted, I never saw her.
How often did you see her during the whole negociation? I dare say fifty times.
Was any direct application made to the Commander in Chief, upon the subject of this levy, from col. French and yourself? Of course a regular application was made from col. French and myself, to grant us this letter of service; that went through the regular office, and we received the regular answer.
It was long subsequent to that, that you and col. French applied to other individuals upon the subject? That I cannot take upon me to say. Col. French came to town, he had been raising two levies in Ireland, he had raised them with promptness and credit to himself, and great satisfaction to the Commander in Chief; he asked me, whether I would join him in getting the levy, and I imagined that the length of my service entitled me to ask of the Commander in Chief for tins levy with col. French.
For what purpose was the sum of 500 guineas promised by col. French to Mrs. C? When we understood that this music-master could introduce us to a person in very great power, we thought that we had better give the 500 l. for their assistance, whoever it was, whether male or female; and then in the regular form, we applied to the Commander in Chief.
Had you not reason to believe that the application would he refused, by the Commander in Chief, at that time? It had not been refused, we never had a refusal; we did not put it to the trial. I really cannot say whether the Commander in Chief would refuse it or not, I do not see why he should refuse it.
Had you not reason to believe, that the application would be refused by the Commander in Chief at that time? I had no reason to believe it would be; we had done nothing that was improper, and why should it be refused: I do not think it would have been refused.
If you did not think that the letter of service would be refused, how happened it that any application was made to any other person than the Commander in Chief, and why was a sum of money promised to obtain it? It would facilitate the letter of service when we presented the letter, of course; and that was the reason why we applied to the person in power.
(By Sir Thomas Turton.)
How long was the promise of 500 guineas, before the letter of service was granted? It was a long time before we got the letter of service; it was very near upon two months or ten weeks before we got it, after the first proposal.
What was the reason alledged by col. French to you for the further advance of the 7 or 800 l. He gave me no particular reason; he said that I had better give her that sum; he gave me no particular reason.
Have you any, and what reason to believe, that the letter of service was expedited by the money given to Mrs. C.? My own private opinion was, that it was not; for, I think, she

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had very little influence with the Commander in Chief.
Have you any reason to believe, that the Commander in Chief was privy to the money given to Mrs. C.? None in the world; I never could have the idea.
Having stated, that you considered the influence of Mrs. C. to he very small, upon what grounds do you found that opinion? The length of time we had in obtaining the letter of service.
(By Mr. Yorke.)
Had you any conversation yourself with Mr. Cockayne, respecting this transaction? No, it was merely we were to he introduced to this person who had great power, and there to state what we wanted to them.
You have continually said, you were informed that a person had an influence with a great personage; by whom were you so informed? Mr. Corri, the music-master.
What communication had you with Mr. Corri, the music-master, with reference to this transaction? He was a client to Mr. Cockayne, and he proposed or mentioned something of this nature to Mr. Cockayne, saying, that if any of his friends were military, and wished any assistance in the War-office, or the office of the Commander in Chief, he could assist them, through his introduction.
What did Mr. Corri mention to you; what personal communication was there between you and Mr. Corri? Nothing more than I say; I saw Mr. Corn once or twice, and he would no; tell me the name of the person; but he still persisted, in repeating what I have mentioned, that he had interest with this person.
Did the proposal come from you to Mr. Corri, or from Mr. Corri to you, and in what terms and what manner? Mr. Corri proposed it to Mr. Cockayne, Mr. Cockayne mentioned it to me, and then an interview took place between Mr. Corri and me.
Then I now understand yon had a personal communication with Mr. Cockayne yourself? Mr. Cockayne was the person who introduced Mr. Corri so me.
How did he introduce him, and open the subject? Exactly as I have mentioned. This man was a client of Mr. Cockayne; he informed Mr. Cockayne, that if any of his friends were military, and wished for assistance in the War-office, or the Commander in Chief's office, he had a person of his acquaintance that could be of very great use to them.
You are now only stating the conversation between Mr. Cockayne and Mr. Corri; did Mr. Cockayne relate to you, that he had had such a conversation with Mr. Corri, and what he would propose to you in consequence of that conversation? He did relate it to me, and I begged to be introduced, or to have an interview with Mr. Corri.
Did Mr. Cockayne come to search out you, or did you go to search out Mr. Cockayne? I really cannot say; he was a client of Mr. Cockayne; Mr. Cockayne it an attorney.
Mr. Corri was a client of Mr. Cockayne? Yes.
You have been relating a conversation between yourself and Mr. Cockayne; did Mr. Cockayne come to you to inform you of this channel, or did you go to search for Mr. Cockayne? Mr. Cockayne was my attorney; and going there upon other business, he then related this to me.
(By Lord Folkestone.)
Did that interview with Mr. Corri, in which 200 l. was offered to Mr. Corri for his good services, take place previous to the regular application to the Commander in Chief? No, I believe it was not; we did not mention any thing to him about the 200 l. then.
When was any thing mentioned about the 200 l. to Mr. Corri? After the letter of service was granted.
For what purpose was the 200 l. offered to him? He had previously mentioned, that he expected something for his trouble, in the event of the letter of service being obtained, but no sum was named.
Was the application to Mr. Corri previous to the application to the Commander in Chief? No, certainly not.
Was your first interview with Mr. Corri previous to your regular application to the Commander in Chief? Assuredly.
And, in that interview, it was understood that Mr. Corri would give you his good offices? With his friend, which was Mrs. Clarke.
Was the offer of 500 guineas to Mrs. C. made with your privity? Certainly it was; I empowered col. French to write thus much to the person who we understood was to be our friend in the business.
Was that previous to the regular application? Certainly.
(By Sir Mark Wood.)
Did you ever mention to col. French your idea, that Mrs. C. had not much interest with the Commander in Chief? Repeatedly.
What was col. French's observation? "We had better see what she can do."
Did col. French mention to you the necessity for keeping this transaction secret? Most assuredly he did; certainly.
From whom did you suppose it was to he kept secret? It was required, from the person who was unknown to us, that it should be kept secret.
Do you mean the person who was then unknown to you, as being Mrs. C.? As it proved afterwards.
Do you mean to say, that Mrs. C. required that this transaction should be kept secret? Not a doubt about it; that she requested it upon all occasions; and when I have seen Mrs. C. she requested I would not mention her name, or the Commander in Chief's name.
From whom did Mrs. C. wish it to be kept secret? From all the world, from every body.
Did Mrs. C. ever mention a wish that it

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should be kept secret from the D. of Y. her having received any money? Most assuredly, she begged that it might never escape my lips to any body.
Then from conversation yon have had with Mrs. C. from time to time, had you reason to suppose that she kept it secret from the D. of Y.? I cannot pretend to say that; I know nothing about what she did with the D. of Y.
Do you mean, in the last answer but one, that she wished you should keep it secret from the D. of Y.? And every body else as well.
I ask particularly as to the D. of Y.? Yes, certainly she did.
(By Mr. Grenfell.)
Was any money paid to Mrs. C. before the letter of service was obtained? No, nothing.
(By Sir Thomas Turton.)
I understand you to have stated, that you have seen Mrs. C. to the number of 00 times; in any of those times did she ever inform you that the D. of Y. was privy to the transaction of her taking any money? Never.
Did she ever at any of those times inform you that the D. of Y. knew of the application to her? No, she did not.
Was the money which was paid to Mrs. C. paid solely on account of col. French, or were you interested in that money yourself? I had part of the levy, and the money that was paid by us was from the joint stock.
When you had conceived, from the delay of the letter of service, that Mrs. C. had very little interest with the D. of Y. with what motive did you consent that your money should be thrown away afterwards to the amount of 850 l. to a person who had in your opinion no interest? I have only to say, that she persuaded us to the contrary, and said that she had a great deal of influence over the Commander in Chief.
I understood you to say, that you had concluded, from the delay of the letter of service, she had very little interest with the D. of Y. That was my opinion.
And I understood you to say, that, subsequent to the letter, you had paid her 850 l. consequently your payment of 850 l. was subsequent to your conviction that she had little interest with the D. of Y.; state therefore why, having that conviction at that time, as you have stated, you consented that your money, to the amount of 350 l. should be thrown away? It was my opinion, but it was not col. French's.
(By Mr. Beresford.)
Do you recollect the date of your application for the letter of service? No, I do not.
State by what sums the 850 l. which you paid to Mrs. C. was made up? 100 l. 100 l. 200 l. 100 l. 150 l. 100 l. and 100 l.
Will you state the dates? I have no dates.
Mr. DOMINIGO CORRI was called in, and examined.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
Do you know col. French and capt. Huxley
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Sandon? Only capt. Sandon; I never saw col, trench.
Do you recollect introducing capt. Sandon to Mrs. C.? I never introduced him; he introduced himself.
Did you give him the direction that enabled him to introduce himself? Quite the contrary; he asked me very often, but I never would tell him: he asked me several times, and I always told him I could not say who the lady was; but he found it out himself, and told me he knew the name of the person, and that col. French had gone to her.
Do you of your own knowledge know what the consequence of their going to her was? Yes.
Say what it was.—Capt. Sandon was introduced to me by Mr. Cockayne; and he told me that he knew that I was acquainted with the lady who had a great influence in the War office; and he told me that if I would speak to this lady, she would have 2,000 l. for what, I recollect, for the levy of the troops. I told him I would speak to Mrs. C. and so I did; and gave him the answer, that she would try what she could; but she said at the same time, it was a very difficult matter, that she was obliged to break through it gradually, and could recommend nobody but people of character, and qualified for the place, and to go through the War office, as every body else was; and this I told captain Sandon.
Do you of your own knowledge know any thing more of the bargain between Mrs. C. and col. French and capt. Sandon? Yes; capt. Sandon came to me and said that the Duke had screwed them down very hard, and that he could only give 700 l. "Well," I Said, "it is all the same to me what you will give, and I will tell her what you say;" and I told Mrs. C. of this new proposal. In this intermedium, capt. Sandon introduced himself, as I said before, to Mrs. C. and I never heard any more of the business, they settled it by themselves; except in the month of June 1801, Mr. Cockayne sent to me at the coffee-house, the Cannon coffee-house, and he brought a bill, I believe, which I never looked at, for 200 l. payable to my order, he said, upon Mr. Grant. I did not look at the bill; I put my name, and gave it to Mr. Cockayne, and said, you had better keep it yourself, I am under an obligation to you, you had better keep it. And that was the end of my business.
Do you of your own knowledge know nothing further of the bargain that was made? Nothing more; several people came to me applying to me for places, and I told Mrs. C.; but I never heard any more. She was very anxious to get the Gazette every night, expecting places; but I know nothing more of the parties, for I introduced them to her, and I had nothing more to do with it, and no more business of any sort passed between Mrs. C. and me, except the music.
Have you, since this business came before the house, destroyed any papers? I destroyed a paper in the mouth of July, the same year,

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soon after capt. Sainton's business. One day I went to Mrs. C.'s house, and she told me she was coming tome; that there was a terrible noise; that the Duke was very angry, and desired I would burn all papers and letters that I had; consequently I burned all the letters at that time.
Have you burned any papers since this business came before the house? I had none; I have four letters in my pocket now, which I received from Mrs. C. since the 1st January; but I was terrified at that time, and did not like the business, and I destroyed the papers which I had at the time of this transaction immediately after it had taken place.
(By Mr. Lyttleton.)
Are the four letters, which you have now in your pocket, to the same purport with the papers you burned before? No, invitations to go and see her, to go and spend the sixth day of the year with her; the first was an invitation to see her. The first day I went there was the sixth, and she desired me to dine and sup, and to remain the whole evening, which I did; and on the 15th I went and supped there again.
Has Mrs. C. ever stated to you any thing respecting the D. of York's opinion respecting these transactions? She never talked any thing to me; she always told me the same thing she had before, that it was always a very delicate thing to open such matters to the Duke.
When Mrs. C. stated to you that the Duke was very angry at what had passed, upon which statement you burned the papers; did she explain herself any thing further, and state at what the Duke was angry? Yes; she told me at that time that the Duke was watched very close by col. Gordon, and that Mr. Greenwood also watched her motions; therefore she was so situated, she could get nothing almost.
(By Mr. Beresford.)
What was the paper which you destroyed? O, just common things; I could not remember five years ago; a desire to capt. Sandon to go such a clay to the War-office, or something of that kind. I was there every day of the year, consequently we had plenty of time for conversation, and she need not send letters to me.
What do you mean by saying you destroyed papers? I mean, that Mrs. C. said to me, that I should destroy every paper, (because the Duke had heard of something of the kind, and he was very angry indeed) "for God's sake;" and my wife was present at this conversation, and she went home and burned the letters; further, she told me that perhaps we should be called where I have the honour to he now.
(By Mr. Croker.)
Did Mrs. C. mean to state, that the D. of Y. suspected that there had been some correspondence between her and capt. Sandon, and that the fear of the Duke's discovering that induced her to desire you to destroy all letters that had passed upon that subject? She was
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just going to Kensington Gardens at the time, the carnage was at the door, and she said in a great hurry, "For God's sake go home and burn the litters;" and there was very little more passed in the hurry.
You have stated, that you put your name upon a bill for 200 l. and returned it to Mr. Cockayne, saying that you bad obligations to him; do you mean to say, that you got no remuneration or reward for your services in the transaction between Mr. Huxley Sandon and Mrs. C.? None whatever, not one shilling.
What induced you to put your name on that bill? Because Mr. Cockayne told me it was payable to my order; I did not read the bill.
Did you owe Mr. Cockayne any money? Yes; I have Mr. Cockayne's account herefrom the year 1802 to 1806, debtor and creditor, and not one penny creditor but the 200 l. which took place in the year 1804.
What obligations did you mean in consideration of which you gave Mr. Cockayne this bill of 200 l.? I thought, in the first place, that he was entitled to the half, if it had been for us, for I never asked any thing; and I thought he should have the half; and at the time I said, "You may as well keep the whole, you are very welcome;" and he said, it is a very good act of generosity, Mr. Corri.
Do you know whether Mr. Cockayne got the money for that bill? I know nothing about it, he wrote me a letter, thanking me for this act of generosity.
(By Mr. Sheridan.)
In this letter of Mrs. C.'s, which you state yourself to have destroyed, did she express any apprehensions of the D. of Y.'s knowing any thing about the transactions in which yourself and she were concerned? Yes, it was in consequence of that that the Duke had heard something which had transpired, and that he was very angry, and that we should be called to this House.
You have stated, that you have seen Mrs. C. twice since the 1st of January, on the 6th and the 15th; was there any conversation at either of those meetings, when you supped each time, respecting the transaction to which this related? Yes, I was a little surprised, because soon after dinner she sent for the twelfth cake, and they sent, for a compliment, to some gentlemen, and two gentlemen came in the evening; and as soon as they came, the conversation of this affair of Mr. Sandon was introduced, and I repeated every word there just as I have here, that capt. Sandon told me she had received the 500 l. and Mr. Cockayne had received the 200 l.; and they were laughing at me, saying what a fool I had been; and this was the topic of the conversation of the whole night almost.
You have staled, that you were surprised at that conversation having been introduced by Mrs. C. that evening; did Mrs. C. assign any reason for introducing that conversation on the arrival of the two gentlemen you have mentioned? No.
Did Mrs. C. allude to any other transaction of a similar nature, before these gentlemen? No, the rest was spent in convivial conversation and merriment, and I left the gentlemen there at twelve o'clock, or a little after twelve, drinking there.
Do you know who the gentlemen were? I could describe the person; one I know, and knew the second time; she did not tell me the first time, but the second time she did, and introduced me to him; she asked me the first time, whether I could tell who he was, I told her he appeared to me to be a lawyer; he laughed very much, this gentleman did, and I knew no more the first time; the second time I could tell you who he was, if you please.
Were the same gentlemen present both upon the 6th and upon the 15th? The 15th, I am not altogether certain as to the little one; the long nosed one, the friend of Mrs. C., he was there, and she introduced me to him; but I believe the other one was there too, from my recollection.
Who was the gentleman whom you do know? Must I tell, for she told me in secret. [The witness was directed to answer the question.] She told me it was Mr. Mellish, the member, who I suppose is in the house.
Do you now know who the other gentleman was? I could describe the figure, if I could see him; my sight is not very plain; but I should not be surprised if he was here.
Was there any other person present besides these two gentlemen? The first time there was a young lady, besides Mrs. Clarke.
Was there no other gentleman present besides those two you have referred to? No; only Mrs. C., a young lady, and two gentlemen, and myself, the first time.
The second time? The second time there was another new gentleman.
Did Mrs. C. inform you who that third gentleman was? Yes, she told me he was a writer of some paper; she told me the name, but I do not remember his name at all; some writer of some paper; and she mentioned some paper, but I forget what paper it was; I took no notice of these things; she said that this man was to take care of her, she was obliged to have him with her to take care of her.
Did that person seem acquainted with the other gentlemen, or cither of them? Yes; when he came, he shook hands with Mr. Mellish.
You have stated, that in the letter which you destroyed by Mrs. C.'s desire, she expressed great apprehensions of the Duke's knowing she was concerned in any such transactions; state, upon your recollection, whether or not Mrs. C. did not more than once in this letter express her apprehensions of the D. of Y.'s knowing that she had received money in the way in which it was stated that she had.—I could not remember the contents of the letter; but this conversation was repeatedly with me, to take care that the Duke should know nothing of the kind; this was done everyday; and that she
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was obliged to have great caution, to break the matter cautiously to him.
[The witness was directed to withdraw.]
WILLIAM MELLISH, Esq. a member of the house, attending in his place, was, at his own request, Examined.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
Did you meet Mr. Corri at Mrs. C.'s, on the 6th or the 15th of January last? I never was at Mrs. C.'s in my life, nor did I ever see her, to the best of my knowledge, before I saw her here.
MR. DOMINIGO CORRI was called in again, and examined.
(By Mr. Mellish.)
Did you ever see me (Mr. Mellish, the member for the county of Middlesex) at Mrs. C.'s? No, it is not you; but I only say what she said to me; the person I saw was a gentleman of a darker complexion than you; if she tell me a lie, I cannot help it.
(By the Attorney General.)
Can you describe the third person you saw at Mrs. C.'s; the newspaper man? Yes, he is a very aukward figure, sallow complexion; I would call him rather an ugly man; very badly dressed; dark hair, and rough in his manner of speaking; he appeared to me not to be an Englishman, he had such a broken accent; he was not elegant in his speaking.
(By Mr. Beresford.)
Did the man squint? I think a little, I am not positively sure; if he squinted, it must be on the left side; I sat on his right side. (A laugh)
Was not his name Finnerty? No; I do not remember the name at all, I have a very bad memory fur names. She told me the name and the paper. He told me that he had travelled a great deal, and that he had been in Africa; and he said that he did not like any music but Scotch music, and he made me play a tune fifty times over, the same tune over again.
(By General Phipps.)
Did the person wear his arm in a sling? No: he wore them very careless, in that way (describing it.)
You have mentioned, that Mrs. C. told you the name of the paper to which he was writer; was he not a writer for the Morning Chronicle? It must be either the Morning Chronicle, The Times, or the Post, one of the three.
(By Mr. Sheridan.)
Did you hear any person call him by the name of Finnerty? No.
Have you any reason to think that that is his name, from what you have heard? Nobody told me his name; but we went into the back-

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room, me and Mrs. C., and left all the gentlemen in the other room, and there she told me about Mr. Mellish and this other person.
You did not hear the name of this other person mentioned at all? No.
Do you know the person of Mr. Finnerty? No; I could not recollect him at all; but I thought the name to be something like a foreign name; if I could see him I could tell.
[The Witness was directed to withdraw.]
WILLIAM DOWLER, Esq., was called in, and examined.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
Are you not just returned from the continent with dispatches? On Thursday last I arrived from Lisbon with dispatches.
Have you known Mrs. C. long? Several years.
How many years have you known her?—I believe 8 or 9 at least; I am not confident.
Do you recollect ever seeing col. Trench and capt. Huxley Sandon in Gloucester-place, while Mrs. C. was under the protection of the D. of Y.? I have.
Did you ever hear either of them speak to Mrs. C. on the subject of the levy? I have.
Did you ever speak to col. French or capt. Sandon yourself, by desire of Mrs. C., on the subject of the levy? I did.
Do you recollect any conversation that you had with col. French on that subject? I do.
State as nearly as you can, what you recollect to have passed at that time.—I saw col. French several times.
Relate, as nearly as you can, what passed between col. French and yourself upon that subject.—I saw col. French at Mrs. C.'s house, and was informed that he was there on the subject of the letter of service. I asked Mrs. C, from curiosity, the nature of it; she told me; and I recollect perfectly, that I took the liberty of saying that I disapproved, or thought it was exceedingly wrong, such a business, and endeavoured to dissuade Mrs. C. from it. That was one of the conversations I recollect to have had with Mrs. C. upon the subject; it was after col. French left the house that morning.
Do you recollect when you next saw col. French, and had any conversation with him respecting the levy? I cannot recollect when I saw col. French; it is a long time back; but that I did see him several times after that, I perfectly recollect.
State the substance of the conversations, as nearly as you can, that passed between you and col. French on the subject of the levy.—Mrs. C. told me she was to have 1,000 l. and a guinea a man, as far as my recollection serves me, to be paid on the completion of 500 men, when they were passed. I was likewise present when col. French or capt. Sandon, I am not positive which, paid Mrs. C. 500 guineas of the 1,000 that was first of all promised. Afterwards, I recollect seeing col. French there, and he stated, that there could not possibly be any but
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the usual bounty given, and that he came, (Mrs. C. was not visible at the moment he came) to request that an increased number of boys should be included in the number of the levy, which he should be able to procure at a less sum than the bounty given for men; and that then he should be able to go on with the service, otherwise, he said, that he should be obliged to abandon it. I do not recollect any thing particular that occurred after that time: but I understand that obstacle was removed with respect to the boys, that col. French's wish was obtained. I cannot speak to that beyond my recollection at this distant time.
Do you recollect any other application of col. French's, to have an obstacle of any other description removed? I do not.
Do you recollect that he requested at any time, that the recruits might be passed nearer the place where they were recruited than the rendezvous at that time was? I recollect that col. French stated, that as he expected to get the greater part of his recruits in Ireland, it would he very difficult and expensive to pass them in the Isle of Wight; but I cannot recollect the particulars of what passed at that time.
You have stated, that you remonstrated with Mrs. C. on this transaction; what answer did she make to you when you so remonstrated; what excuse did she offer? This and other proceedings I frequently mentioned, and endeavoured to dissuade Mrs. C. from having any thing to do with them; she stated, that the D. of Y. was so distressed for money that she could not bear to ask him, and that it was the only way in which her establishment could be supported. I beg leave to state, that in consequence of this, Mrs. C. was offended with my freedom, and I ceased to see or hear from her, for I cannot tell how long, till I think nearly my departure for South America in 1806.
What was the nature of the remonstrance you made with Mrs. C.? I felt that it might implicate her character or the D. of Y.'s at a future time, that was what I told her; that there was a great risk attending it, and I thought it was very dangerous to her reputation and to his.
(By Lord Folkestone.)
In what situation are you? I have lately been in charge of the account department of the commissariat at Lisbon.
How long have you been in the commissariat? Since 1805.
How did you obtain your situation in that department? I purchased it of Mrs. Clarke.
Did you apply directly to Mrs. C. for the appointment? Certainly not; she suggested it to me.
Did you pay any money to Mrs. C. for the benefit you received from it? I first of all gave her 1,000 l. and at other times other sums to a very considerable amount.
Did you ever make any other direct and regular application to obtain that situation? To no one.
You are positive as to that fact? Positive.
Never to any one but to Mrs. C.? To no individual whatever.
In what department lies the presentation to such appointment as that which you hold? In the treasury.
(By Mr. Yorke.)
In what situation of life had you been before you were appointed to the commissariat; had you ever been in any public office? I had never been in any public office. When my father retired from business, which was within the knowledge of gentlemen who are members of this house, I retired into the country with him; he was a wine-merchant and a merchant in general.
How did you become acquainted with Mrs. C.? Through a gentleman that is deceased, capt. Sutton, whom I had known for some years previous to my knowledge of Mrs. C.
When did capt. Sutton introduce you to Mrs. C., and in what manner and with what view did he so introduce you? He took me to dine at her house; the view was because there were a few musical persons to be there, a musical party; capt. Sutton asked me whether I would go out to dinner with him; and that was the cause of my being introduced to Mrs. C.
When was this? I have said as nearly as possible, about 8 or 9 years perhaps ago, but I am not confident as to the length of time.
In what manner and at what time did you make the proposition to Mrs. C., through her influence to procure the office which you How hold? She made the proposition to me.
In what manner did she make you the offer; and what passed between you upon that occasion, and when was it? She stated that she was extremely pressed for money, and requested that I would assist her, as the D. of Y. had not been punctual in his payments, and I applied to my father in consequence; he hesitated, and I told her I could not furnish her with more money than I had then given her; she then promised, not the situation I now hold, but another; I applied to my father, and he did not seem at the moment to give his consent to it. It was afterwards, a considerable time afterwards, for many months elapsed after the first suggestion wits made by Mrs. C. to me, be at last consented to it, if I could be confident it would be a matter that would not become public, if I felt myself secure in it. In consequence of that I was named to the appointment I now hold.
Did you never make any application for the office to any other person; and in what manner was your appointment to the office communicated to you? I never applied to any other person; Mrs. C. told me that I should he appointed sooner by much than I was, and at last stated as the reason why it was put off, because a Mr. Manby, who had been in the 10th regiment of dragoons, was to be first gazetted; my appointment was delayed in con-
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sequence of that; I believe it was about two or three months at the utmost before I was gazetted, after Mr. Manby.
In what year was that? 1805.
Was your father apprized of the object you had in view? Certainly.
Might not your father have made application through other friends, for this situation for you? I am certain not.
(By Mr. Huskisson.)
Do you recollect the date of this communication with Mrs. C. respecting this appointment? I do not.
State it as nearly as you can.— I really cannot state it at all correctly, because it was the subject of conversation; it was first of all pointed out to me, the situation of a commissioner of the Lottery, which caused the delay. I understood my appointment was on the point of taken place, but it was set aside because the vacancy that happened was given to Mr. Adams, the Secretary to Mr. Pitt; and then it was suggested to me, that the commissariat was an eligible and gentlemanly employment, and not an inactive one, as I believe the circumstances of my service will sufficiently shew.
Am I to understand from you, that this arrangement, about getting you the situation in the commissariat, arose about the time that Mr. Adams, the Secretary to Mr. Pitt, was appointed a Commissioner of the Lottery? I believe it was afterwards; but they were both the subjects of conversation previous to that.
Was it soon afterwards? I am sorry I cannot state that correctly.
Will you state the year? I do not know the dates, because they were both the subject of conversation before they took place.
Can you state the date of your commission appointing you in the commissariat? I was first in the stare department of the commissariat, previous to my going, and after I went to South America; and I was transferred to the account department on my going with Sir A: Wellesley.
Do you know the precise date of your first commission from the Treasury appointing you an assistant commissary of stores and provisions? I think it was in June or July 1805.
Do you know the names of the Lords of the Treasury by whom that commission was signed? My commission is at Lisbon with my luggage; I cannot answer that; as I came with dispatches, it was necessary I should not encumber myself with luggage, and it is there.
Cannot you state, upon your own recollection, the name of any one of the Lords of the Treasury who signed that commission? I cannot.
You also held a commission from the Secretary at War? I believe that commission was made out after my departure, and that it has never been in my possession; but I have no paper to help my recollection.
After your departure; for what place? South America.
You have stated, that you received your first commission in June or July 1805? I believe so.
Where were you employed after that time? In the eastern district, Colchester, and Sudbury, in Suffolk.
You have stated that Mr. Manby's commission took place before yours? It did.
And that Mr. Manby's having the precedence over yours, was the came of the delay in your appointment? Yes.
Do you know the date of Mr. Manby's? I do not; I believe it was the commencement of 1805, but I cannot be positive to the commission of Mr. Manby, as I never saw it.
You stated, that you were appointed, in June or July 1805, assistant commissary of stores and provisions; by whom was the notification of that appointment communicated to you? I was apprized of it a few days before it took place, by Mrs. C.; in consequence of which, I recollect paying her the remainder of the 1,000 l.
In consequence of this notification being received from Mrs. C., what steps did you take inorder to procure the instrument which put you into possession of your appointment? I was apprized that it was at the usual office in the Treasury, and Mr. Vernon was the gentleman, I believe, that signified it to me; I was in expectation of it every Gazette.
Do you know who Mr. Vernon is? I believe Mr. Vernon's is the Office in the Treasury where commissions are left.
Did you understand from Mrs. C., that she made her application direct to any person in the Treasury; or through what channel did you understand from her that that application was made? To the D. of Y.
Is the Committee to understand, that you gave your money to Mrs. C. under the belief that you had been recommended to the Treasury for this situation by h. r. h. the D. of Y., through the influence of Mrs. C? Certainly.
From the time that you first understood that this application had been made to the Treasury, up to the time that you received this commission, did you take any steps to hasten or to expedite the object of your appointment with Mrs. C., through any other channel whatever? I did not.
Had you had communication with any person connected with the First Lord of the Treasury, or any other gentleman then in the Treasury, on the subject of your expectations of your commission, up to the time that you came to Mr. Vernon's to take out that commission? Never, but mentioning to Mr. Vernon my expectation.
Then you saw Mr. Vernon before you were appointed? Certainly I know Mr. Vernon.
You saw no other person at the Treasury? None.
Between the time in which you state you paid the premium for obtaining this commission, and the time that you actually received it, did you receive any intimation from any
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person connected with the treasury, that your expectations were favourably entertained? Mr. Vernon mentioned to me one morning when I called there, a gentleman was speaking to him; I was desired to call in live minutes; he said, "I believe you are going to be appointed an assistant commissary," I do not know the exact term, there was a paper going up, and he said, "I have no doubt the appointment will take place, it has been signified from the Board," or some such expression.
Did you receive from Mrs. C., the person whose recommendation yon think procured you this situation, any information respecting the progress making towards the completion of the appointment? I have stated what passed between Mrs. C. and myself respecting Mr. Manby's appointment, it was the subject of conversation afterwards; but it was not of that consequence to me, as to make it the subject of particular inquiry.
What, in point of fact, was the distance of time between the money being paid by you and the appointment to the commissariat? I cannot at ail tell that.
Not whether it was in the same year? Certainly in the same year.
Within six months? Certainly.
I think you stated, that you had paid some sums of money to Mrs. C., in expectation of netting some appointment, before you paid to her the specific sum that was to lead to this appointment? Not in expectation of getting any appointment.
For what other reason? It was considered merely as a temporary relief to her; she was always stating, "the Duke will have more money shortly, and I will pay you;" and it was obtained from my father at my request, but with no view of any appointment.
Then is the Committee to understand, that the sums of money which you paid to Mrs. C., before you paid this sum for this appointment, were loans made to her without any expectation of any public employment being conferred upon you? Certainly.
(By Mr. Whitbread.)
When Mr. Vernon, from whom you received the notification of your appointment, made that notification, in what terms was it made; was it verbally or in writing? Verbally.
What were the terms of it? "I believe, Mr. Dowler, you are going to be appointed an assistant commissary," as far as I can recollect the expression.
In what terms did Mr. Vernon intimate to you, that you were actually appointed? The intimation was, that the appointment was in a train, not that I was actually appointed.
From whose hands, or from whom did you actually receive the warrant of your appointment? I believe from Mr. Vernon; there are fees paid upon them, and I am not certain whether myself or a friend received the commission, and paid the fees, or not.
You do not recollect whether you received it from Mr. Vernon's hand or not? I do not.
Do you recollect whether you received it in any letter from Mr. Vernon? I believe not, I am not confident, I cannot charge my memory with a circumstance which I did not consider of any consequence, at the distance of from 1805 to the present time; I am here very reluctantly; I am just arrived in England, and had but yesterday a summons to attend this house very unexpectedly.
(By Mr. Alderman Combe.)
From the time you have received the appointment in the commissariat, to the present time, have you never ascribed your appointment to any other interest but that of Mrs. C.? I stated, that Mrs. C. did not give me the appointment I hold, and that was the only answer I ever gave; I bought it.
Was not your father a common-councilman of the city of London? He was, for many years.
Did he not represent the same ward of the city of London of which sir Brook Watson was the alderman? He did.
Do you recollect a conversation that passed between yourself and me (Mr. Alderman Combe) at the top of the Haymarket, after you had received the appointment? I recollect seeing Mr. Combe, but what occurred I cannot possibly tell.
Do you recollect this having passed, that I congratulated you upon what I had heard, as to your having received an appointment in the commissariat, and that I put the question, Whether you had received it from the favour of Mrs. C., or the patronage and favour of sir Brook Watson? I have no recollection of the conversation that passed from Mr. Combe, but his congratulation to me; he was on horseback; I think the horse did not stand very still, and I ran into the middle of the street, to ask Mr. Combe how he did.
Are you quite certain, that to that question you did not answer, that it was entirely by the favour of sir Brook Watson? Upon my honour I cannot recollect what passed, as I have before slated.
Will you undertake to say positively, that you did not at that time say it was by the favour of sir Brook Watson? I cannot say positively, but I state what I stated before, that Mrs. C. did not give me the appointment; and many mistakes have occurred upon that, by persons supposing that I received it without having purchased it, which is the fact.
(By Mr. Sheridan.)
When you made the remonstrance you have stated, to Mrs. C., did she endeavour to allay your apprehensions with respect to herself, by any suggestion that the D. of Y. was privy to her taking money on such an occasion? I cannot say what conversation arose, except that she was offended with my freedom.
Did you not consider Mrs. C. as placing a
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very particular confidence in you, for a long course of years? On these occasions I thought so; but as my opinion did not accord with hers, communication very soon ceased on such subjects.
Is the Committee to understand, that Mrs. C. did not give you any reason to think that the D. of Y. knew of her taking that money? She gave me reason always to think that the D. of Y. was perfectly acquainted with it.
Do you not recollect that the transaction respecting col. French and major Sandon was in 1804? I do not recollect the time of the transaction.
Do you recollect whether it was before or after your giving Mrs. C. the 1,000 l. for the purchase, as you term it, of the place for you in the commissariat? My expostulation with; Mrs. C. on the subject of col. French, was previous to my appointment in the commissariat, I believe so, as far as my recollection goes; but I trust at this distance of time I shall be excused, if I am imperfect as to the dates.
The transaction with col. French was in 1804? I have a belief that it was so; but, not being positive, I would not venture to say that of which I am not sure.
If, from respect to Mrs. C., you thought it right to remonstrate and expostulate against the transaction with col. French in 1804, why did you yourself in 1805 bribe her with 1,000 l. to get an office for you? Because she w as peculiarly distressed for money at the moment, and because the appointment would remain a secret in my breast, and nothing but such an inquiry as this could possibly have drawn it from me. The D. of Y.'s character and Mrs. C.'s would never have suffered from that which unfortunately I am now obliged to communicate to this house.
Then the Committee is to understand that your only reason for remonstrating and expostulating with Mrs. C., was not against the impropriety of the act, but on account of the risk of a discovery? For both reasons, and her I answer, as far as I recollect, was this: I stated I to Mrs. C. the anxiety and trouble that it seemed to have occasioned to her in this business of col. French's; and that I advised her, by all means, to have a regular payment from the D. of Y., instead of meddling with such matters; and she told me, that he really had not the money.
Although then you might think the secret safer with you, did you not feel the impropriety of the act equally applied to your own transaction? I was principally induced to it from the difficulty and embarrassed situation she was in at the moment I purchased the situation.
You have stated, that Mrs. C. was so much offended with your expostulation and remonstrances, that you saw very little of her since? Not so frequently as before, by much.
[The following Question and Answer, given by the Witness in the former part of his Examination, were read.]
"You have staled, that you remonstrated

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with Mrs. C. on this transaction; what answer did she make to you when you so remonstrated; what excuse did she offer?" "This and other proceedings I frequently mentioned, and endeavoured to dissuade Mrs. C. from having any thing to do with them. She stated, that the D. of Y. was so distressed for money that she could not bear to ask him; and that it was the only way in which her establishment could be supported. I beg leave to state, that, in consequence of this, Mrs. C. was offended with my freedom, and I ceased to see or hear from her, for I cannot tell how long, till I think nearly my departure for South America in 1806."
(Mr. Dowler.) I beg leave to amend that; That I saw her less frequently during the interval; not so frequently as I had seen her before: it produced a great deal of auger in Mrs. C., my taking the liberty of giving my advice, as I have stated.
(By Mr. A. Baring.)
Were you personally acquainted with sir Brook Watson? Not sufficiently so to bow to him even passing in the street.
Do you know whether your father was acquainted with sir Brook? He was, but not intimately, not on terms of particular intimacy; he dined with him once a year with the common-councilmen of the ward, that was the utmost intimacy I know of subsisting between them.
Did you never hear your father say that sir Brook had interceded, or would intercede, to procure you a situation under government? Never.
(By Mr. Yorke.)
You have stated, that besides the 1,000 l. you paid Mrs. C., you paid her large sums at different times; can you state the whole amount of the sums you have paid to Mrs. C. at those different times? I cannot recollect the amount of them, but I recollect particularly that I paid 170 l. or guineas for a vis-a-vis to capt. Warner, who was going abroad, and she told me she should have the money in from the D. of Y. in a few days to pay me.
Did they amount altogether to 1,000 l.? I am unable to state, I kept no account.
What is the amount of the pay with emoluments of the office which you hold? In England, on the home staff, the pay of an Assistant Commissary is 15 s. a day, with various deductions.
Is that the whole emolument? There is an allowance for lodgings when you are not in barracks or billetted, but that ceases if you are billetted.
What were the emoluments of the office which you held before your last promotion, when you first obtained the situation under government? The first office was that of Assistant Commissary of Stores, the emoluments of which I have stated.
What do the emoluments of the present si-
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which you hold amount to? There is an extra five shillings, called Treasury Pay, given to the officers of the commissariat on foreign service, subject to the deductions of income tax, and others that are usual.
Did you obtain that promotion or change of your situation from any interest on the part of any body, or was it granted without application to any body? It was granted on my application to Mr. Harrison, in consequence, I would take the liberty of adding, of my stating to Mr. Harrison that I had suffered in my health from being in Sooth America; I did not wish to avoid foreign service, but was unable to go through the fatigue of the Store Department; but that if their lordships thought proper, I conceived myself able, and Was willing, to undertake that of the Account Department. Mr. Harrison replied, I will see about it. He went out of his office, and returned in a few moments, and said be could see no objection, if it was not objectionable to the person going at the head of the department. The pay of the two departments is the same.
Do not you conceive it probable, that, from the respectable situation your lather held in the corporation of the city of London, you might be likely to have several friends who interceded with government for the office to which you were first appointed? I believe not.
You have stated your belief, that the D. of Y. was acquainted with the circumstance of Mrs. C. taking this money; can you state what circumstances induce you to entertain that belief? The assurance of Mrs. Clarke.
You know of no other circumstances but the declaration of Mrs. C., to induce you to that opinion; no circumstances have occurred to corroborate that opinion? With respect to the money of course I cannot, but she said I should be gazetted very shortly, and I was so.
So that that opinion which you have given to the house was founded solely on the declaration of Mrs. C., without any other corroborating circumstance? Of course I had no communication with the D. of Y., and it was her declaration alone which led me to believe that he knew it, and my subsequent appointment.
(By Mr. Vansittart.)
Did you ever tell Mr. Vernon at the Treasury, at the time you received your appointment, that you owed it to the influence of Mrs. C., or at any time before, that you expected it from her interest? I do not recollect having any conversation with Mr. Vernon upon that subject.
Were you not, previous to your appointment, ever introduced to one of the secretaries of the treasury, or some other gentleman there? I never was introduced to either of the secretaries of the treasury, to my recollection; I have not the knowledge of the person of any one of the gentlemen who were then secretaries of the treasury.
Or one of the chief clerks? Not to my recollection.
(By Mr. Huskisson.)
Before you received your appointment from the treasury, were you not referred to the Comptrollers of Army Accounts, to he examined as to your fitness to be a commissary? I was.
Do you recollect what interval there was between that reference and your appointment? I do not.
From whom did you receive the letter of reference to the Comptrollers? I am not certain, but I recollect the circumstances of my going to the Comptrollers office; I saw the secretary; Mr. Fauquier, I think his name was, gave me the usual questions which were put, which I was to answer on a sheet of paper, what my habits of life had been, my knowledge of business, and so on; those I answered; and he said the Comptrollers were not then sitting, but if I was required further, he would let me know.
Do you know whether you received that letter from Mr. Vernon? I did not.
State to the Committee in what situation on the commissariat's staff you were employed immediately before you were sent on service in Portugal? The accounts of the commissary general were not made up, or rather my accounts, which are the last, having been kept at Buenos Ayres after the departure of the army, having been sent there to pay for the supply of the army and the navy on their return home; and I was apprized by Mr. Bullock, that I was placed on half pay, which could be but a few weeks previous to my departure for Portugal; and the day previous to my departure, I was the whole day with Mr. Bullock, finally settling our accounts.
You were Assistant Commissary, under Mr. Bullock, of stores and provisions, in the expedition to Buenos Ayres? I was.
Not being wanted at your return, you were placed on half pay, as soon as your services could be dispensed with? I was surprised to find that I was placed on half pay, though I believe it was but for a very few weeks, because my accounts with Mr. Bullock were not settled, and I resided in London in consequence of it.
Were you placed on half pay by any order of the Treasury? I was only apprized of it through Mr. Bullock, I do not know that it was the fact.
Do you know on what recommendation you were sent on service to Portugal? I do not, Mr. Coffin told me that he had not suggested my name.
Do you know whether Mr. Coffin, the commissary general, was called upon on the occasion of the Expeditions to Portugal and Spain, to furnish the treasury with a list of all assistant commissaries who were upon half pay, or not otherwise wanted on services in England, in order that they might be sent on service to those countries, without making fresh appointments? Mr. Bullock called upon me at the coffee-house where I had resided, and told me he had been informed that morning, that I was
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put down for the expedition under sir A. Wellesley; I was in bad health, and had been constantly occupied, and he knew that well; and he said, I would advise your going to the commissary general's, in Great George-street, tomorrow.
When you went to the commissary general's, were you told to hold yourself in readiness for foreign service? I think Mr. Coffin, or Mr. Morse, said to me, Well are you ready to be sent again? I said, I hope not just yet. I think Mr. Collin came out, and said, I did not suggest your name to the Treasury, I assure you; or that Mr. Morse said, he believed that Mr. Coffin had not done so.
Had you made no application or interest to go upon this service? Certainly not, except that which I made to Mr. Harrison, finding I was appointed to the Store Department.
Up to the period that you applied to Mr. Harrison, requesting that you might be changed from the department of Stores to the department of the Accounts, had you any reason, except that you could perform it with more satisfaction; did you consider it any promotion in the service? Certainly not, for I believe it is certain that there is a greater chance of promotion in the Store Department, from its activity, and that activity being in the eye of the Commander in Chief, than being in the Account Department.
(By Mr. Bootle.)
Before you were in the Commissaries Department, what was your profession of life? I was a long lime, after my father quitted London and quitted business, without any kind of occupation; my father's liberality rendered it unnecessary for me for some time previous to my appointment.
Before you were appointed to the Commissariat, did you not follow the business of a stock-broker? Some years previous to that, I believe in 1800, or 1801; I am not certain precisely as to dates.
Why did you quit that line of life, and when? It was my father's desire; and besides that, in consequence of peace first, and afterwards the renewal of hostilities, I lost a great deal of money by the failure of different persons, and my father was constantly urging me to quit it, as a very hazardous and dangerous employment.
Then your resignation of that profession was after the breaking out of hostilities? I am pretty sure it was.
How soon after did you pay 1,000 l. to Mrs. C. for this situation? My father paid it; my father gave me the money for it.
Was that the only reason assigned for your leaving your business of a stock-broker, or was it not from embarrassed circumstances in the Alley? I was invited to stay in the Stock Exchange by some of the members, but my father would not consent to it.
Did you pay all your differences? I paid my last shilling, and involved myself considerably.
Did you pay all your differences? I have never seen the paper, nor my books of the Stock Exchange, because they were delivered immediately into the hands of the committee; they were requested to be examined, and to this moment I have not received them back. All the differences would be that which you lose by the failure of others; and among other, E. P. Solomons and Mr. Cope wore deficit to the amount of 5 or 6,000 l. to me, which was the cause of my leaving the Stock Exchange.
(By the Chancellor of the Exchequer).
Have you paid the debts due from you, at the time of your quitting the Stock Exchange? Certainly not; because these are debts due from me in point of honour, as it is a place where many of the transactions are not legal: these are due from me; they came suddenly on me; and I believe they are the only transactions that I had with those persons.
Do you recollect at what time your quitting the Stock Exchange took place? The date I cannot tell; it was the time of the failure of Mr. E. P. Solomons and Mr. Cope.
It is a pretty important event in your life; do not you recollect when it occurred? No; not unless I had my papers; I was endeavouring to recollect this morning; but I have not a particle of paper here; I expect my things from Lisbon; and I could tell if I had my banker's book.
You have stated, that you had at various times lent money to Mrs. C.; had you lent any money to Mrs. C., previous to your quilting the Stock Exchange? I do not believe I had.
Had you given any money to Mrs. C., previous to your quitting the Stock Exchange? I do not believe that I had.
Were you acquainted with Mrs. C., previous to your quitting the Stock Exchange? Certainly.
For how long? I must refer to the former answer I have made, that I had know Mrs. C. several years.
Do you recollect the first time you either lent or gave any money to Mrs. C.? I do not.
How long ago might it he, two or three or four years ago? I wish I could answer the question, but it is impossible; I have not any recollection upon the subject that can be called accurate; or near it.
Was it all in one year, or in different years? Of the 1,000 l. 200 l. was first given her, and afterwards the 800 l.
Were these the only sums that you ever lent her? I have stated before, that I have lent her sums at different time, which I had always been assured would be repaid, amounting to a considerable sum, which I cannot recollect exactly, but which never were repaid.
Do you mean to state, that you lent various sums of money to a considerable amount, expecting them to be repaid, and yet have no recollection of what they were? Except the 170
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guineas for the vis-a-vis, I have no recollection of the precise sums.
Do you mean to state, that they were loans to Mrs. Clarke? Yes.
Had you any security for those sums of money that you lent to her? None.
Did you take any memorandum of the sums that you lent to her? I am pretty sure not.
And those sums were to a considerably amount, at various time, for which you took no memorandum? I have taken none.
You arrived from Portugal on Thursday last? Yes.
Have you seen Mrs. C. since your return from Portugal? Yes.
When did you see Mrs. C., since your return from Portugal? On Sunday last.
Have you seen her since? I saw her just now, in the witness's room.
Was any body with Mrs. C. when you saw her? I waited upon her, to request that I might not be called upon as a witness; seeing the circumstance of col. French's levy in the newspaper, I saw her address in the newspaper.
Was any body with Mrs. C. when you called upon her? Nobody but a young lady or two.
What conversation passed between Mrs. C. and you when you called upon her? I lamented the situation in which I found her placed, as to the notoriety of this, and that I had always told her I was fearful it would become known; and she said the D. of Y. to the best of my recollection, had driven her to it by not paying her debts, and not being punctual in the annuity, us she termed it, that she was to receive from him.
She told you that the D. of Y. had driven her to this proceeding, by not paying her debts, and not being punctual in the annuity that she was to receive from him? I do not know that she said he had driven her to it; my conversation was as short as possible, merely to request that I might not be called upon.
Had you seen Mrs. C. before you went to Portugal, in the course of last summer? Yes.
Frequently? I cannot positively state how frequently.
Do you recollect what was the last time you lent her or gave her money? I do not indeed.
Have you lent or given her any money since the time of your appointment to the Commissariat? Upon my word I cannot recollect; if it has been, it must be very trifling.
(By Mr. Hiley Addington.)
Can you positively assert, that neither you nor any other person connected with you, solicited sir Brook Watson to support the interest which you supposed to be making for you at the treasury, to procure the appointment in the commissariat department? Never to my knowledge.
Did you know that sir Brook was frequently consulted at the Treasury in making out commissariat departments? I was not acquainted with that circumstance; but I was not at all known, and I did not even bow to sir Brook if

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we met; I was not on sufficiently good terms with sir Brook to think he would aid me in the appointment; on the contrary, when I waited on him, having received my commission, he did not seem to know me, and ordered me to depart the next morning.
Can you say whether sir Brook knew that interest was making in your favour at the Treasury for that appointment? I know nothing of that circumstance.
Can you positively say that sir Brook did not, to the best of your Knowledge, make any application to assist with his recommendation the interest making for your appointment? I believe, to the best of my knowledge, that he did not aid me in procuring the appointment.
Have yon always and uniformly represented that Mrs. C. was the author of your appointment? I avoided saying any thing upon the subject as much as possible.
(By Sir Arthur Piggott.)
Did you ever at any time say that you owed your appointment to sir Brook Watson? I have not any recollection of saying so, to the best of my belief; but it is hardly possible to recollect circumstances of such long standing; I always, to shield Mrs. C. and to prevent any suspicion, said, that she did not give me the appointment, and therefore I confine myself to the truth intentionally; I gave that answer when I was pressed by persons who knew me; they might conjecture, but I always avoided the question as much as possible, and few persons took the liberty of asking me.
If you ever said von owed your appointment to sir Brook, could you ever have forgotten it? The errors of memory are so great, that I cannot positively speak to such a thing, but I should imagine I never did say so; trusting to one's recollection at a length of time is a very arduous task.
Do you admit, that you might have said to some person or other that you owed your appointment to sir Brook, and have forgotten that you said so? I do not think that I ever said so, but I do not pledge myself to say that I never did say so; but I do not believe it.
Do you admit, that you might have said to some person or other that you owed your appointment to sir Brook, and have forgotten that you said so? I have answered that question to the best of my knowledge.
WILLIAM HUSKISSON, Esq. a member of the House, attending in his place, was examined.
(By Mr. Calcraft.)
I believe you were Secretary of the Treasury in the months of May, June and July in the year 1805? I was.
Will you acquaint the Committee what is the course of application for appointments of this kind to the Treasury; and whether you recollect any application either of Mr. Rd. Manby, or of the gentleman who has just been examin-
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ed? The course of application for appointments of this nature, and all other appointments in the gift of the Treasury, as far as I know; is this: that an application is either made directly to the first lord of the Treasury or the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or more indirectly to those persons through the channel of one of the Secretaries of the Treasury, or the private Secretaries of those persons: sometimes, nay frequently, applications are made verbally either to the first lord of the Treasury or to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who makes a memorandum of the application, and it is then noted in the memorandum-book kept by his private secretary, or communicated to the Secretary of the Treasury, to be noted in a memorandum book kept there; If any application is made for an appointment on official grounds, that is made certainly in a different; shape; it would then be presented to the board of Treasury in the shape of a memorial, or some official document, which would go through the regular course of official business; of that nature are recommendation for promotions for commissaries, or any other servants of the public, who having distinguished themselves, receive recommendations from the superior under whom they have served: any document of the latter description, I believe would be forthcoming in the Treasury; but as to any application for an appointment, I know no instance of such a paper being considered an official application, or register or any public note made of it: in consequence of that, I do not believe that the most diligent search into the records of the Treasury will afford any trace of the quarter or of the manner in which this person was recommended to his appointment, whether the application was made to myself to be communicated to the then first lord of the Treasury, or made to my then colleague in office, or to any other person who had access to the first lord of the Treasury, or whether it was made to the first lord of the Treasury himself, I am altogether ignorant: I certainly have not the least, recollection of this person being recommended; and until he stated to the Committee this evening that he was an assistant commissary, I did not know that there was such a person upon the staff; upon his stating that circumstance, and that he purchased the commission from Mrs. C., my attention was of course called to his evidence; I then took the name of the witness, and I have recalled to my recollection, that a person of that name had been directed to proceed to Portugal, to serve in the commissariat there; and that he was directed for this reason, that when a very large force was proceeding to Portugal and to Spain, it of course became necessary, on the communication of that circumstance from the secretary of state, to provide a commissariat staff adequate to the amount of the army going to serve in those countries: I communicated this to the commissary general and the comptrollers of army accounts, and desired they would furnish me with a complete list of ail the commissaries who

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were either not absolutely wanted in the service in England, or being on half pay might he sent: in the list so sent, I must have found the name of this gentleman, and I can state that with the more confidence, because extensive as that army was, and numerous as the commissariat, there was not any one fresh officer appointed, the whole were taken either from the half pay of the commissariat as I have staled, or from persons who, in consequence of the reduction of the force in this country, it was conceived might he spared for foreign service. I am confident I never saw Mr. Dowler till I saw him at the bar; I certainly do not recollect any one circumstance connected with his appointment: I do not know when it took place, nor can I give any other account, than that which I have now given. I know that Mr. Manby holds an appointment in the commissariat, because, finding him upon half pay, he was directed to take charge of a district in England, from which another commissary, was sent on foreign service; but I cannot recollect whether Mr. Manby was appointed during the time I held the situation of secretary to the treasury, or at any other period. I am equally ignorant as to the circumstances which led to his appointment, and of the quarter from which he was recommended, as of the person who has been examined.
Do you recollect Mr. Adams being appointed a Commissioner of the lottery r I do recollect his being appointed a Commissioner of the lottery, when he was private secretary to Mr. Pitt, at the time he was first lord of the Treasury.
WILLIAM STURGES BOURNE, Esq. a Member of the House, attending in his place, was examined.
(By the Chancellor of the Exchequer.)
You were Secretary of the Treasury in the months of May, June and July, in the year 1805? I was.
Will you acquaint the committee whether you recollect any application, either of Mr. Richard Man by or of the gentleman who has just been examined? After the statement which has just been made, it will be only necessary for me to state, that I never saw Mr. Dowler, till I saw him at the bar to-night. I do not recollect any application being made to me on the subject of this appointment, and am totally unacquainted with the circumstances respecting it.
Mr. Wardleexpressed a wish that the committee should rise, and the Chairman report progress, on account of the late hour of the night. He also wished the postponement, as he was much fatigued, and it was necessary from the peculiar situation he was placed in, to attend the examination of all the witnesses. (A loud cry of "Go on! Go on!" from all parts of the House.)
Sir T. Turtonsaid, he wished that the far-
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ther examination of the witnesses should be continued. At the same time he conceived, if the hon. gent, who preferred the charges wished to postpone entering into further investigation for the present, he was entitled to the indulgence.
Mr. Wardleintimated that he was ready to proceed.
Mr. Crokersaid, if it did not derange the system which the hon. member intended to pursue, he wished Mrs. Clarke to be called in. Mr. Wardle not making any answer—Mr. Croker proceeded to say, it was his determination she should be examined that night, and he would insist that the committee should not rise until she was called in.—(A cry of Order! Order!)
Mr. JOHN GRANT was called in, and examined.
(By Mr. Wardle.)
Were you agent for col. French's levy? I was.
Do you know what agreement existed between col. French and capt. Sandon, with regard to the levy? That it was to be a joint concern.
Do you mean by a joint concern, that they were to stand in equal proportion of gain or loss? I do.
Do you of your own knowledge know through whose influence it was that col. French first obtained his letter of service? I have no further knowledge as to that fact than what was told me by col. French and capt. Sandon.
Will you relate what col. French and capt. Sandon told you? They told me that they were to have a levy, and were to get it through a friend, which friend at that time I did not k now, but before the letter of service came out, I was acquainted that it was through a Mrs. Clarke.
Did you know from them that they gained that letter of service through the medium of that friend then unknown to you? They told me so.
Do you recollect that during the progress of the levy, any alteration was applied for in the original terms of the levy through the same medium, Mrs. C.? I do know that an alteration was applied for: they applied, but I cannot say that that was through the same medium.
State what that alteration was.—I cannot immediately state it from recollection, but it will appear upon the letter which was issued from the War-office in consequence.
A letter sanctioning the alteration was issued from the War-office in consequence of an application, but through what medium you do not know? No.
Did you ever hear col. French or capt. H. Sandon say by what means they had obtained that alteration? I in fact knew the means, because it was a letter written applying for such an alteration.
To whom was that letter addressed? I understood to the Commander in Chief.
From col. French, and capt. Sandon? Yes.
Can you recollect that any other alteration in the levy was made? I cannot charge my memory with any more than one.
Was there any alteration with respect to boys? I think that was in the original letter of service; I cannot be certain as to that; but it was either in the original letter of service or in the amendment.
Were you acquainted with the terms on which Mrs. C.'s influence was obtained by col. French and capt. H. Sandon? I did understand at first that she was to have 500 l. or guineas; but afterwards I understood there was some other alteration, which was to allow a guinea for every man raised.
Do you know that any sum or sums of money were paid in consequence of that last agreement to Mrs. C.? I have been told so; but know nothing of it myself.
Were you told so by col. French or capt. Sandon? By both.
You were told both by col. French and capt. Sandon, that Mrs. C. received payments according to the last agreement of a guinea a man in addition to the 500 guineas originally contracted for? I cannot say whether it was upon the first or the last agreement, but that she received several sums.
Do you know that she received several sums subsequent to the agreement you speak of, of a guinea a man? I do not know at what period she received any sum; nor do I speak from my knowledge of her receiving any, but only from what I was informal by col. French, and capt. Sandon.
Did you as agent to the levy pay any sum of money to her or to any other person? To her none; but to several others very lame sums.
Do you recollect payings draft of 200 l. drawn in favour of Mr. Corri by capt. Sandon? I accepted such a draft, and it was paid by my banker.
The amount of that was placed to the levy account? To the levy account.
Have you ever understood or been told by col. French or capt. Sandon, that Mrs. C. has received very considerable sums for her influence on the levy account? I have.
Did they ever, either one or the other of them, tell you, or have you reason to know, the amount of the different sums paid to her on that account? I know nothing of my own self; but they have mentioned to me the sum, I think, of 1,700 l.
Did you ever hear col. French or capt. Sandon complain of Mrs. C. having disappointed them in any of their applications on that subject? I do not know that they ever made any others to her.
Did you ever bear col. French or capt. Sandon complain of Mrs. C. having disappointed them in any of their applications on that subject? I cannot call any such thing to my memory; it does not occur to me at present.
Do you recollect col. French and capt. Sandon to have expressed themselves satisfied with the exertions Mrs. C. bad made in their favour? No.
Do you recollect that col. French ever applied to you, respecting the loan of 5,000 l. that was to be raised for the Commander in Chief? He did mention to me that he wished to afford to the Duke such an accommodation.
Did col. French desire you to take any steps towards procuring that money? No.
Did he state to you his reason for wishing to accommodate the Commander, in Chief with that sum? No.
But you recollect that col. French spoke to you, respecting the raising of such a sum of money for the Commander in Chief? I do; that he asked me to lend it to him for the purpose.
Will you as nearly as you can recollect stale what passed upon that subject? I do not recollect any particulars that passed, further than his asking me to lend him such a sum of money for that purpose; as to the particular words I cannot possibly recollect.
You took no steps whatever for raising the money? None.
Did you state to col. French that it could not be done? I told col. French that under the heavy advance I already was for the levy, I certainly could not do it with convenience.
Do you recollect that col. French suggested, that this loan of 5,000 l. was to be advanced, provided the arrears due from government on the levy account were paid up? No such condition or provision was stated; but it was observed, that if that should be recovered it might form a part of it.
Was it col. French who made that observation? I really cannot recollect whither it was from col. French or from myself.
Then the mode of accommodating the D. of Y. was agitated between you? If that may be called a mode, it certainly was.
Do you mean to say, that if the sum due from government to col. French on account of the levy was paid up, the D. of Y. might on that event have been accommodated? No, certainly not.
Was any application made to your knowledge by the D. of Y. for the paying up of the sums due on the levy? Not that I know of.
Did col. French ever tell you such application was to be made or had been made? Col. French did promise that he would memorial the Duke upon it.
Did you say that if the money was paid up, the 5,000 l. was to be lent to him? No.
Then you mean merely to state, that if the money due on account of the levy was paid, that on that event you would have been able to have met col. French's wishes, and to have made the advances to the D. of Y.? No; I never mentioned any such idea nor took it into consideration.
I thought you said, that there being so much due from col. French on the account of the levy,

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you could not meet his wishes upon that subject? That did not relate to what was due from the War-office, but to a large sum still due from col. French and capt. Sandon; which they had expended perhaps in other ways, and which sum they are still indebted to me to a very large amount.
Do you recollect col. French complaining of other parties having larger bounties than were allowed to his levy, and that that hurt his recruiting very much? He did mention, that he met recruiting parties wherever he went; but as to the bounty being larger or not, I cannot undertake to say that he did.
It is understood that col. French and capt. Sandon had at one time 13 guineas, and at another time 19; at what period was the sum advanced from the 13 to the 19? I cannot speak particularly as to the period, but I think it was in May 1804; if the letter of service is referred to, that will shew it distinctly.
Did col. French tell you whether that advance was procured through the medium of Mrs. C? No.
Do you recollect that col. French ever told you that through the influence of Mrs. C. he had obtained permission to have his recruits passed nearer the places where they were recruited than before? No.
[The Witness was directed to withdraw.]
Lord Folkestonecalled the attention of gentlemen to the exhausted state of the hon. member who brought forward the motion, the state of the house, and the lateness of the hour, and proposed an adjournment—(A cry of "Go on! Go on!")
The Chancellor of the Exchequerobserved, that many members appeared to be impressed with the belief that the purposes of justice required that Mrs. C. should be examined to-night, and in that sentiment he was much inclined to concur. As justice was the object of all, he hoped that Mrs. C. would be called in and examined. Without her evidence, the whole that had been said was nothing, as the D. of Y. had not been implicated.
Mr. Wardlesaid that the right hon. gent. need not have so strongly urged upon him a regard to justice. If the Committee thought that justice required it, he was ready to proceed.
Mrs. CLARKEwas then ordered to be called.
Mr. Wharton(the Chairman) stated that Mrs. C. was so exhausted, that, she begged to he indulged with a chair. [A chair was accordingly ordered.] He then said, that he found from the Serjeant at Arms, that he had mis-stated the message, which was a request from Mrs. C. that she might not be examined to-night.
Mrs. C., however, was called in, and
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addressed the Committee as follows; 'I feel myself so very unwell, and so very much fatigued, that it is impossible for me to be examined this evening; I have been waiting here eight hours, and I am quite exhausted with the fatigue; my feelings have been very much harrassed dining the time.'
The Chairmantold her, that the Committee, in consideration of her fatigue, had ordered a chair for her.
Mrs. Clarke—The chair will not take the fatigue off my mind.
The witness was then directed to withdraw.
Mr. Yorkesaid, that unless the witness was examined that evening, she would have such opportunities to communicate with the other witnesses, that he thought, if it were in the power of the house, she ought to be committed to the custody of the Serjeant at Arms, with orders to deny her access to any person whatever. It was of the greatest consequence that either the one or the other of these plans should be adopted; and he thought the witness should be called in, and have the option given her.
Mr. C. W. Wynndoubted whether such an order as that proposed could be given till the house was resumed, and therefore till then the Chairman could not make the communication.—Mr. Rose agreed with the last gentleman; but Mr. Yorke thought there might be precedents of the Committee's making such an order.
The Speakersaid that there were certainly no such precedents in modern times, and the house ought to pause before they came to a decision upon a point, in which the liberty of the subject was so materially concerned.
Mr. Sheridanthought, that if the witness were examined in an ill state of health, she might afterwards say that her answers were not such as her more fresh and vigorous mind might have suggested. He deprecated the idea of locking her up in solitude here in a strange place, and because she was excused from examination. He did not see why all the other witnesses should not be confined in the same way; and thought that to single her out might look like the effect of party. The Committee would recollect, too, that to-morrow was the Fast-day, and that it was not unlikely she might remain in confinement till next Friday. She had already, too, had ample time to have made any communication with the last witness but one;

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and the first question the right hon. gent. should have asked her would have been, had she had any conversation with Mr. Dowler since he had been examined? The right hon. gent. thought that the measure of her commitment would be harsh and unreasonable.
Mr. Wardleproduced the note he had received from Mrs. C., before she bad entered the doors of the house that evening, which ran as follows;—"Mrs. C. very much wishes to see you, as she feels herself extremely indisposed."
Mr. Crokerthought that a communication between the witnesses might have taken place, and that it was absolutely necessary to examine Mrs. C. that evening.
Mr. Adamsaid, that in a cause of so great importance, and in the conduct of which the eyes of the nation were fixed on the committee, the committee ought to be guided by their soundest discretion, and that that discretion ought to take into consideration, in a proper degree, the public opinion. If the evidence of the witness in question ought not to be influenced by communications with other witnesses, so it ought not to be given under a state of mind, to the productions of which she might afterwards object. The committee were therefore in this dilemma; and as they could not accomplish their desire of preserving her from communication, the hon. and learned member thought that the committee had better postpone her examination, and allow the fact of her intercourse with other witnesses, to go to her general credit; and it would affect the whole of her testimony.
Mr. Secretary Canningagreed with the hon. and learned gent, as to the difficulty under which the committee laboured; but thought that one or two questions, as to the fact of her communication with other witnesses, might still be asked her tonight; and these might be made so-short as not to affect the most delicate state of health and spirits. If these questions were not put now, the committee would recollect there were other modes than personal communication, through which the witness might learn the procedings of the house.
Mr. Whitbreadconceived that the house would best consult its dignity, by allowing the hon. member to pursue the course of proceeding which he had a right to act upon. But even though it was unwilling to accede to such a principle, he begged leave to ask the house whether a female, in attendance for eight hours, and of course
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suffering much suspence, had not some claim upon the generous feelings of the house, without any reference to the immediate person to whom that feeling was extended? To speak, under such circumstances, of committing Mrs. C, he trusted would not meet the support of many in that house. (Hear, hear!)
Mr. Canningdeprecated any such seventy; at the same time, he was alive to the necessity of putting certain questions to Mrs. C., relative to any communication which she might have received from any of the witnesses examined that night. He still thought that a more preferable method might be pursued, to which on any side he could see no objection. Namely, that Mr. Dowler should be called in and examined.—Accordingly,
WILLIAM DOWLER, esq. was again called in, and examined.
Since you quitted this bar, have you had any communication with Mrs. C.? Only to offer her refreshment, us she was very unwell; I procured a glass of wine and water for her, which I put beside her.
Have you communicated to her the substance of what passed here during your examination? No.
How long were you in the room with Mrs. C? I imagine five or ten minutes: the gentlemen withdrew from the room for some time, and I was absent at the time: I was in the room perhaps five or ten minutes.
Did you give Mrs. C. any intimation whatever of what had passed in this house? She asked me the names of the gentlemen by whom I had been examined; and I answered that I did not know them.
What other persons were present in the room? The whole of the witnesses, I believe; she was unwell, and several gentlemen gathered round her, and asked her, whether she would take refreshment.
How many witnesses are there attending? When I say all the witnesses, I suppose there were eight or nine in the room, I cannot speak positively.
Were you apprised that you ought not to have any communication with Mrs. C.? I felt so.
And acted entirely from your own feelings upon the subject? Yes.
[The Witness was directed to withdraw.
[The Chairman was directed to report progress, and ask leave to sit again.]