Commons Sitting of 1 April 1808

MINUTES.
Mr. Bankesreported, from the Committee appointed to try and determine the merits of the Petitions complaining of an undue Election and return for the county of Sussex, that John Fuller, esq. had been duly elected, and that the petitions were not frivolous nor vexatious.—The bill for preventing the grant of Places in Reversion, for a time to be limited, was read a second time.

PETITION FROM LONDON, RESPECTING THE OFFICES IN REVERSION BILL.
The Sheriffs of Londonpresented to the house, a Petition of the lord mayor, aldermen, and commons of the city of London, in common council assembled, setting forth, "That the petitioners have, during a long course of public events, productive of so many calamities, patiently submitted to unexampled burthens, and are still ready to make such further sacrifices as may be necessary for maintaining the honour and independence of the realm; and that these burthens have been considerably augmented by gross abuses in the management and expenditure of, the public money, and by a profusion of sinecure places and pensions, which have not only greatly added to the

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sufferings of the people, but created a pernicious and dangerous influence, corrupting and undermining the pure and free principles of the British constitution; and that after the enormous abuses brought to light by the various Commissions of Enquiry, it is a matter of deep concern to the petitioners that the offenders thereby discovered have not been brought to justice, and those who so grossly misapplied the public money have hitherto escaped with impunity, and the petitioners did therefore rely upon parliament that speedy and effectual measures would have been adopted to reform such abuses, and detect and punish the offenders in future; and that the petitioners viewed with much satisfaction the formation of a Committee of Finance, and hailed the introduction into the house of a Bill to prevent the granting of places in reversion as the first step towards these salutary reformations; they beheld with increased satisfaction the measures taken by the house, both during the late and present sessions of parliament, to carry the same into effect; and that it was with grief and disappointment they observed the views and intentions of the house unhappily frustrated; and they have too much reason to apprehend that the defeat of this measure has arisen from that baneful and predominating influence which such abuses must necessarily create, and which this Bill was intended to correct; and that it appears to the petitioners at all times essential that a rigid economy should be observed in the expenditure of the public money, and that no places or pensions should be bestowed but for real public services, more particularly so at the present moment, when it is declared, 'that this country is at the very crisis of its fate,' and the people are called upon for such unexampled sacrifices and exertions; they beg further to suggest to the house, the serious consequences likely to result should a disposition be evinced by either branch of the legislature, at a period so awful and momentous, not to participate with the people in their dangers, sacrifices, and privations; and therefore praying the house not to relax in their endeavours in carrying so necessary and beneficial a measure into effect, and causing enquiries to be made into the receipt, management, and, expenditure of the public money, adopting measures which may effectually guard against such abuses in future and for abolishing all unnecessary places and pensions, as well
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in reversion as otherwise, as the best means of consolidating the strength of the empire, and calling forth the united energies and exertions of the people at a time so necessary for the safety and security of his majesty's dominions."—Ordered to lie upon the table.

ASSESSED TAXES AND GAME DUTIES.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer,in a committee of ways and means, rose, to submit the propositions, of which he had given notice, respecting the transfer of the duty for licences to shoot game, from the Stamp Duty to the Assessed Taxes, and for consolidating the additional 10 per cent. with the Assessed Taxes, to the consideration of the committee. As to the first point, he should only observe, that it was notorious that the duty was evaded in a variety of cases, a circumstance which could not take place when the duty was transferred to the Assessed Taxes, in consequence of the mode in which the Assessed Taxes were collected. Upon this head, therefore, he should propose a Resolution to the committee, that the present duties on Game licences do cease, in order that others should be granted in the Assessed Taxes in lieu of them. When the Bill that was to be founded upon this resolution, should be brought in, gentlemen would have an opportunity of considering how far the provisions it was to contain would be efficient to its object. Under the present system, much inconvenience was felt by those gentlemen who happened to reside at a distance from the county town, in obtaining their certificates from the clerk of the peace. This inconvenience would be wholly removed by the arrangement which he proposed, for the certificates would be forwarded to the collector of the district, to be issued on the production, by the person requiring it, of the receipt for the payment of the duty. Since the subject had been under his consideration, several communications had been received, which represented that the evasions were chiefly practised by persons pretending that they were shooting woodcocks and snipes, whilst, in reality, they were engaged in pursuit of game. In order to remove this source of evasion, therefore, it was deemed desirable to include woodcocks and snipes in the enumeration of game. The other proposition that he had to submit to the committee, was a resolution for the consolidation of the 10 per cent. additional to the Assessed Taxes granted the year be-

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fore the last, with the Assessed Taxes. It would be remembered, that at the time this addition had been brought forward to make up the deficiency in the ways and means of the year, which had arisen from the abandonment of the iron tax. The stage of the session did not admit of that mature consideration which was desirable. The consequence was, therefore, that in almost every instance there were fractional payments, which the committee would feel it right to do away. For this purpose, he proposed to add 2 per cent. upon the whole, and in all the lower classes to reduce the payment, in case of a fraction, to the next integer; and in the higher classes to raise it to the integer immediately above, so that the whole addition being at the rate of one in fifty, would give an addition of 110,000 l. upon 5,500,000 l. the present amount of the Assessed Taxes. But, the effect of lowering the fractional payments to the next integer below them in the inferior classes, would be to reduce that sum to about 107,600 l. in the year. For instance, the amount of Assessed Taxes for a house having more than six windows, and not worth more than 5l. rent, was at present 6s. 7d. and would, according to the rate of addition proposed by him, be raised to 6s. 8¼d; but, according to the scale of reduction he had in contemplation, it would be lowered to 6s. 6d. the sixpence being the immediate integer below the fractional sum. In the higher classes, on the contrary, the payment would be carried to the integer above the fraction. There would be a consequent decrease upon the lower classes, but the slight addition on the higher classes would compensate for that, and make the augmentation upon the whole 107,600 l. He therefore moved, "That it is the opinion of the Committee, that the present duties on Game Licences and the Assessed Taxes do cease and determine, in order that other duties be granted in lieu thereof."
Mr. N. Calvertthought the regulations proposed by the right hon. gent. for transferring the duties on Licences for shooting game, from the Stamps to the Assessed Taxes very good, but suggested, that there should be duplicates of the receipts given for the amount of the duty, in order that the person who paid the duty might have something to shew in proof of his having paid it.
Mr. Spencer Stanhopeexpressed his regret there was no clause in any of
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the Assessed Taxes bill which subjected assessors guilty of making surcharges wantonly, to the payment of costs, if the surcharges should not be confirmed. He was convinced that power ought to be given for subjecting persons of that description to the payment of costs.
Mr. T. Jonesalso complained of the wanton manner in which surcharges were often made, and wished that some mode of prevention might be found consistent with the bona fide collection of the revenue.
Mr. Biddulphsaid, there were other objects worth the right hon. gent.'s attention, before imposing new taxes; he meant measures of reform. He would go along with him certainly in preventing frauds and evasions. But he thought it would be better if the right hon. gent. had come down with a paper in his hand of the defaulters of former years.
Mr. Huskissoncould not conceive in what possible shape an account of this kind could be brought before the house, or of what use it would be to the revenue. If it could be made out, it would of course be granted like other accounts, relating to the public money, on a motion for that purpose.
Mr. Biddulphwas not then prepared to specify the heads, but would inquire into the subject with a view to a specific motion.—The Resolutions were then agreed to.

PETITIONS AGAINST THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL.
The house resolved itself into a committee of the whole house, for the further consideration of the Petitions against the Orders in Council. Mr. Brougham was then called to the bar, and addressed the house in a very able and eloquent speech of three hours length in support of the prayer of the Petitioners.—After the learned counsel had finished, he withdrew, and a conversation arose on the expediency of hearing further evidence.—The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Marriott, Mr. Stephens, and sir C. Price, contended, that if the house were then to take any step on the evidence that had already been adduced, it would be in complete ignorance of the subject. It was therefore proposed by them to examine witnesses, who might fill up the chasm left by those who had been examined. Mr. Tierney, Mr. Whitbread, Dr. Laurence, Mr. Ponsonby, and Mr. A. Baring, expressed their satisfaction to find, that it was at length intended by the hon. gent.

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opposite to enter into a full investigation of this most important subject. Mr. Tierney declared his intention of moving for the attendance at the bar of the 34 gentlemen who had signed the Petition in favour of the Orders in Council presented by an hon. bart., that they might communicate to the house the information which they described themselves to possess.—It was ultimately agreed that the chairman should report progress, and ask leave to sit again; and the house having been resumed, the committee was appointed to sit again on Monday, for which day, on the motion of the chancellor of the exchequer, several witnesses were ordered to be summoned.