Commons Sitting of 14 January 1807

MINUTES.
Sir J. Newport brought up a bill, to amend the Act of the 42d of his present majesty, for regulating the trials of Controverted Elections, or returns of members to serve in parliament for Ireland; which was read a first time.—The Secretary at War presented the Army Estimates for the present year, and a copy of the warrant for fixing certain allowances and pensions, in pursuance of the Act 46 Geo. III. These papers were ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. He then gave notice, that, on Friday se'nnight, he would move those estimates in the committee of Supply. Mr. Perceval wished to know whether the papers moved for on a former night, by a noble lord, not now present (Castlereagh,) with a view to the elucidation of the state of our Military Establishments would be ready before that day. The Secretary at War conceived the papers now presented, might in a great measure afford the information the noble lord wished for.

AMERICAN TREATY.
General Gascoyne rose, and observed, that he thought it his duty to ask the noble lord opposite (Howick) a question, if the house would so far indulge him. It was of the last importance to the commerce and manufactures of the country in general, and in particular to that town which he represented, that some explanation should be given of the situation in which we stood with respect to America. It was necessary to give publicity to the question and the answer, otherwise he would have been satisfied with a private explanation. A letter had appeared in the public papers, with his lordship's name to it, from which it appeared that a Treaty of Amity, Navigation, and Commerce, had been signed between this country and America, by commissioners respectively authorized by both governments. The noble lord had left it very

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doubtful whether the late prohibitory decree had met with any alteration? whether the congress had assembled, or whether the president had any power to alter the provisions of the decree? The consequence was, that merchants were left entirely in the dark, whether or not they might with safety export those articles that had been prohibited. This was a state of suspence that ought if possible to be removed. He did not ask about the terms of the treaty; he knew any such question would be premature. But if his lordship meant to say, that these goods might be exported without danger, explanation was required, for he had not been explicit. If he meant to say that they could not be exported with safety, explanation was still requisite, for he had been explicit neither on the one point nor on the other. He hoped, therefore, that the noble lord would have no objection to remove all doubt on this subject, by giving a full explanation of his meaning. This was material, as the note in question had created much anxiety, among the commercial and manufacturing interests of the country.
Lord Howickwould be glad to be able to answer any question which was stated to be of importance to the commercial and manufacturing interests of the country. How far the hon, general might think explanation necessary, he did know, but the house would immediately see that his question, if he rightly understood it, was one which he could not possibly answer. The hon. general had said, that a considerable impression had been created among the commercial and manufacturing interests of the nation by the note which be had written. How any impression should have been conveyed by that beyond the simple fact, he was at a loss to conceive, He had merely stated the simple fact, that a Treaty of a certain description had been signed by the respective commissioners. What was to follow upon that, he could not take upon him to say. It would be improper at present to go any farther than the bare fact. He had stated, that there was such a treaty, leaving it to others to draw such a conclusion as they should see fit. In this, however, as in all treaties, the most obvious inference would be, that since it was signed by persons duly authorised, it would in due time be ratified. If there was such a treaty, and the inference was that it would be ratified, it might naturally be concluded that the pro-
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hibitions would be taken off. But all that he could take upon him to say at present was, that there was a treaty of amity, commerce, &. as he had stated in his letter. He could only communicate the fact, leaving it to others to draw such inference, as the fact might appear to them to warrant. A learned gent. (Mr. Perceval) the other night had adverted to this treaty, and seemed desirous to know whether we had bound ourselves down to a particular system of action with regard to the American and Neutral Navigation and Commerce, or whether his majesty had reserved to himself a right to proceed as far as was necessary to counteract the designs of the enemy, by using means equally severe against his commerce as he used against ours. He had no objection to answer that question. His majesty had reserved to himself a right to proceed with as much rigour against the French commerce as the chief of the French government had employed against us. This was a right which he hoped his majesty would always reserve to himself. Nothing had been given up therefore on that point by the treaty with America.