Commons Sitting of 2 February 1807

MINUTES.
Lord Euston, chairman of the Saltash Election committee, reported, that that committee had been prevented from proceeding on the investigation of the matters given in charge to it, on Friday and Saturday last, in consequence of the absence of A. Robarts, esq. one of its members; that this day Mr. Robarts did attend, and the committee had proceeded to business as usual. Doctor Bailey stated at the bar, that Mr. Robarts's absence was occasioned by indisposition; and Mr. Robarts was excused for having absented himself on the above-mentioned days.—Mr. Yorke as chairman of the Weymouth Election committee, reported that the sitting members were duly elected, and that the petition against them was not frivolous or vexatious.—Sir G. Heathcote, chairman of the Maldon Election committee, reported that Mr. L. Hughes, a member of the said committee, had absented himself, on the ground that his presence was necessary in the country, in consequence of the alarming indisposition of his father. Sir R. Williams deposed to his belief of the fact, and Mr. Hughes was excused from further attendance; and the committee empowered to proceed without him.—On the motion of Lord Howick, the thanks of the house were voted to the Rev. Frederick Barnes, the Chaplain, for the excellent sermon preached before the house, at St. Margaret's Church, on Friday. Mr. Barnes was requested to print the same.—On the motion of Mr. Vansittart, the house went into a committee on the acts relating to the mutual Importation of Spirits between Great Britain and Ireland. Mr. V. adverted
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to the act of union which had wisely provided that all articles of the growth and produce of either country, should be received in the other, on paying the same charges as were paid on the home production of the same kind. The drawbacks on the spirit intercourse between England and Ireland had been regulated on this principle. But the duties being lower in Scotland than in England, advantages had been taken in consequence, which went to defraud the revenue in England, and to impede the distilleries in Ireland. With a view to correct these evils, he should move, that the chairman be instructed to move for leave to bring in a bill to suspend, for a time to be limited, the drawbacks on the mutual importation of spirits between Great Britain and Ireland; and also to suspend the countervailing duty on the importation of the Irish spirits into Scotland, so as to give the Irish distiller a fair competition with the Scotch and English. The chairman reported, and leave was given to bring in a bill accordingly.—Lord Folkestone gave notice, that to-morrow he would move for leave to bring in a bill to constitute into a law the regulation of the house for giving notice to parties in cases of Controverted Election.—Mr. Rose gave notice, that on Wednesday he should move for certain financial papers, calculated to afford information which was requisite to satisfy doubts which were entertained as to the first Financial Resolution submitted by the noble lord opposite, on Friday. In answer to lord Henry Petty, Mr. Rose stated that the accounts he wished for were intended to show the quantity of certain articles imported before the commutation.

TREASURERSHIP OF THE NAVY.
Mr. Sheridan,in rising, pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a bill for the further regulation of the office of Treasurer of the Navy, did not think it necessary to go at length into the grounds of his motion, as the facts which rendered such a bill necessary were within the knowledge of the house. On a recent occasion, doubts had been entertained by the Judges as to the construction of the act of his present majesty, which was intended to prevent the Treasurer of the Navy from making any extraordinary emolument of the public money entrusted to his charge for official purposes. It was necessary to remove those doubts, and though some hesitation had existed as to the best means of removing them, no doubt whatever was

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entertained of the fact that they ought to be removed. A short act of parliament had, at length, been determined upon as the best mode of removing them, and of regulating the future management of the navy money, in the manner best adapted to the public service, and productive of the least possible inconvenience to the bank. Mr. S. moved accordingly, and leave was given to bring in the bill.

IRISH TREASURY BILLS BILL.
Sir John Newportmoved the order of the day, for the house to resolve itself into a committee on the Irish Treasury Bills bill. He hoped that, before the Speaker quitted the chair, the house would indulge him with a few words, for the purpose of clearing up some doubts, with reference to a statement made by an hon. member (Mr. Johnstone) on a former night. In moving to bring in this bill for raising 1,000,000 l. by Treasury Bills, for the service of Ireland, he trusted it would not be thought that he had claimed an unwarrantable confidence, when it was considered that a power had been given the Irish government to raise half a million for the service of the last year, which power had not been used, nor had any Treasury bills been issued.—He would ask, whether it could with justice be presumed, that the Irish Finances could be in the situation that hon. member had described them, when the Irish government had not found it necessary to avail itself of a power to raise half a million of money? In fact, there had been no occasion for making use of that power; on the contrary, he had been able to discharge a debt due from the Irish Treasury to the English Treasury, of a sum of 276,000 l. advanced by the English Treasury, for payment of the lottery prize in 1802. That was no proof of a failure of the Irish Finances. After payment of that sum, there remained, allowing for the subsistence of the army, a sum of upwards of 500,000 l. belonging to Ireland. He was extremely sorry he had not been present on Thursday, when the noble lord near him (H. Petty) had made so very happy a statement of the finances of Great Britain. But he deprecated all comparison between the finance of G. Britain and the finances of Ireland. But though Ireland was not in that prosperous situation with respect to capital, industry and commerce, which would enable her to raise a large portion of her expences within the year, she was far from being in a situation of financial failure or depression. Her revenue was more than adequate to
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the payment of the interest of her debt and the sinking fund, and, with that ability, and with the sums in hand, which he had mentioned, she could not be considered in a state of failure or depression, as she had been represented by an hon. gent. on the night he alluded to. The revenue of Ireland was 3,800,000 l. which was far above the interest of its debt and Sinking Fund.
Mr. Johnstoneregretted that he was not in the house when the hon. baronet began his speech, but he seemed to intimate that he (Mr. J.) had taken advantage of his absence. He wished the hon. baronet had been present to have heard him. He did not say that Ireland was in a bankrupt state, nor had attempted to convey any such impression. His argument was, that as the Irish revenue was only equal to the payment of the interest of the debt, and to the defraying of civil charges, it followed that she must raise 4,000,000 l. by way of loan. He did not take the revenue too low, for he took it at 3,800,000 l. as the hon. baronet had stated it, though, if he had taken it lower, speaking from the documents before him, he could not have been properly chargeable with error. If the hon. baronet therefore made a speech in order to combat a charge of bankruptcy, he spoke with regard to a charge that existed only in imagination. He had not said that Ireland was in a state of bankruptcy; he had only said, that as she could not raise the greater part of the supplies within the year, she must have recourse to loans here, and that this would interfere with the noble lord's plan.
Sir J. Newportknew of no civil charges, on the revenue of Ireland, nor of any, charges beyond the interest of its debt and sinking fund. These amounted to 3,132,000 l. which, deducted from the revenue of 3,800,000 l.,left a surplus of near 700,000 l. applicable to the current expences.
Mr. Johnstoneobserved, that the hon. baronet's statement confirmed his allegation on the former night. The Irish part of the point charged being 5,300,000 l. and the surplus of revenue applicable towards it being hut 700,000 l. there would remain to be borrowed 4,600,000 l. instead of 4,000,000 l. as he had stated.—The bill then went through the committee.

THIRD MILITARY REPORT—CONDUCT OF MR. ALEXANDER DAVISON.
Lord Archibald Hamiltonstated, that since he had given notice of his intention to bring forward a motion respecting the Third Re

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port of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry, he had understood that proceedings upon the subject were now pending in the Treasury. Under this circumstance, and having communicated with his noble friend (lord II. Petty), he was apprehensive that, if he made the motion, he should be trespassing upon what was the province of the treasury, and interfering with their arrangements; but he hoped the house would indulge him while he read the motion which he had intended to have submitted, and stated the peculiar situation in which he felt himself placed. He had intended to have moved, that the attorney-general should be instructed to take the necessary measures to ascertain, and secure, by due course of law, such sums as should appear to be due to the public from Mr. Alexander Davison, in consequence of the transactions disclosed in the Third Report of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry. If it should appear to the house, that he had been somewhat hasty in giving his notice of the motion, he trusted the importance of the subject, and the nature of the fraudulent and iniquitous transactions at which his notice was directed, would sufficiently excuse him. A charge of being too forward to institute enquiry against fraud and peculation, was a charge from which he should not shrink. As he imagined there were many members who would have been glad to have delivered their opinions upon such a subject, he feared lest they should feel some mortification at the opportunity being denied them, in consequence of his having relinquished his motion. He felt it his duty to state the view with which he had taken up the subject. He had considered that the report having been made, it was far from creditable that it should have been suffered to have remained so long on the table unnoticed. The opinion he had at first formed respecting the transactions developed by the report, he was by no means disposed to abandon. He had considered, that it would have been more desireable for the house to have instituted some process against Mr. Alexander Davison, than that it should have been done by the treasury. Indeed, he had not yet wholly relinquished that opinion, though certainly by his communications with his noble friend, it had been very much weakened. The enormity of the offence was so great, and so general and extensive, in its operation, that it called for the most public and exemplary
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punishment. Nothing could be more destructive to a government than those agents, who while they were well paid for the duties they performed, yet made use of the confidence reposed in them to plunder the public.
The Speakerhere interrupted the noble lord, and said, that if he did not mean to propose any motion, it would be inconvenient and improper to enter upon the particulars in a case of this nature.
Lord A. Hamiltonagain rose, and said, that he was sorry to trespass on the attention of the house, but all that he had said, or meant to have said, was intended merely to account for the line of conduct which he had pursued in this business.
Lord H. Pettywas sensible of the irregularity of prolonging the discussion, but hoped he should be excused for taking this opportunity of explaining to the house the proceedings which the treasury had thought it right to adopt upon the third report of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry, which he was not surprised to find had attracted the notice of his noble friend, and of the house in general. No delay had taken place in the steps which the treasury had thought it its duty to pursue; and it would under these circumstances be an imputation that ministers had not used proper activity, if the house should take the prosecution out of then hands, and institute steps of its own. The commissioners of barrack accounts had very properly communicated to the lords of the treasury their opinion, that it was very necessary Mr. Davison should produce his cash account with the barrack-master-general. The lords had in consequence directed the commissioners to call for this account; they had written two letters to Mr. Davison, containing a demand to that effect; no answer had been returned to these letters, and the commissoners reported the fact to the lords of the treasury. The lords of the treasury then called peremptorily on Mr. Davison to produce the account, and Mr. Davison did reply to them, assigning a domestic calamity as the excuse for his delay, and declaring his readiness to give such information as to his cash account as he could give; but stating, that as his cash account was mixed with his other accounts, it was impossible he could give a clear view of it. This answer was referred to the commissioners, who stated upon it that it was not satisfactory; and that if the accounts kept by Mr. Davison were in such a form as to be

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useful at all, the information which the commissioners wished could be collected from them. The lords of the treasury upon this ordered the Third Report of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry, and the correspondence between the barrack commissioners and the treasury and Mr. Davison, to be laid before the attorney and solicitor general, for their opinion, as to what steps ought to be taken to obtain the disclosure of the cash account, and to have justice done to the public in the recovery of what was due to it. The attorney and solicitor general reported their opinion, and recommended as the more speedy mode of proceeding, if parliament should concur in the opinion, that a bill should be passed, enabling the commissioners of barrack accounts to call upon Mr. Davison to produce his books, and to enforce his compliance, rather than to institute proceedings to that effect in the exchequer. He believed, his learned friend the attorney-general was prepared to submit a motion to that effect this night. It was not competent to him to say, in the present stage of the business, whether any evidence upon which to ground a criminal prosecution would be found; but if it should, the attorney and solicitor general would be instructed by the lords of the treasury to institute proceedings upon it. Mr. Davison had written to the lords of the treasury, stating that he would produce an account in his own defence, which would prove satisfactory. But unless he could produce his cash account, the noble lord did not see how it could be satisfactory. The commissioners, however, had called for the cash account by the direction of the treasury, and directions had been given for the recovery of the sums due; every step, therefore, that could possibly be taken, had been resorted to, and therefore he flattered himself that his noble friend would not repent the fair and candid manner in which he had consented to withdraw his motion.
The Attorney-Generalthen moved, that there be laid before the house the commission appointing Charles Herries, esq. and W. Bragge, esq. commissioners for barrack accounts. He also gave notice, that he should to-morrow move for leave to bring in a bill, to invest the commissioners for enquiring into the barrack accounts with the same powers to examine persons on oath, as the commissioners of army expenditure.