Commons Sitting of 25 March 1805

MINUTES.
A message from the lords announced their lordships' assent to the Irish Customs bill, Excise bill, Stamp Duty bill, the Postage bill, the Malt and Spirits bill, the Sugar Drawback bill, the English Exchequer Bills bill, the English Sugar Drawback bill, the Promissory Notes bill, and the Expiring Laws bill, all without any amendment. Soon afterwards, the gentleman usher of the black rod appeared at the bar, and summoned the speaker and house to attend in the house of lords, to hear his majesty's assent given, by commission, to certain bills. The Speaker and members accordingly attended; and on his return he acquainted the house, that he had heard the royal assent given, by commission, to several public and private bills, among which were those above enumerated, as also the Irish Warehousing bills.—A person from the Stamp-office presented an account of stamp duties and balances in the hands of the collectors at this present period.—Mr. Bagwell, after obtaining leave to withdraw the Irish Election bill which he had lately brought in, moved for leave to present one more perfect. Agreed to.—Mr. Fitzgerald moved for leave to bring in a bill for regulating the Right of Common in Ireland, in the same manner as in England. Leave given—Mr. Fitzgerald, also moved, that there be laid before the house copies of the patents under which the commissioners of the treasury in Ireland held their offices, at the time of making their returns; and the warrant or warrants issued for paying their salaries, also a list of the several persons appointed commissioners of the treasury, and the funds out of which the several payments have been made. Ordered.

REPORT OF THE SUPPLEMENTARY BUDGET.
Mr. Alexanderbrought up the report of the committee of ways and means. The several resolutions with respect to the new taxes were read, and when the clerk came to that relating to the proposed tax upon auctions.
Lord Henry Pettyrose, and after admitting that the other taxes proposed, were as unobjectionable as under the circumstances could be well expected, animadverted on the tax just referred to as likely to bear with peculiar hardship upon a very distressed part of the people, and therefore irreconcileable with the principle which the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer had himself laid down on a former evening. The noble lord pressed upon the consideration of the house, that auctions were already subject to a tax of from 10 to 12 per cent. and that small traders, who generally disposed of their goods in that way, and distressed persons who were often obliged to have recourse to it, would be much affected by the proposed addition. He recommended an exemption in favour of such persons, on the same principle on which an exemption was granted under the property and other taxes.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that he should not at present enter into a discussion of the merits of this proposition. He should only observe, that, if the noble lord's argument were adopted, it would be impossible to bring forward a tax that should be received; for no tax, however generally good, could be free from some particular objections. The objections, however, stated by the noble lord were not applicable to the general principle of this tax.—Upon the resolution being read relating to the tax on cider And perry,
Mr. Bastardstated, that, according to information which he had received this day, cider was, in consequence of an alteration made by the excise in the course of the last year, raised from the nominal duty of 20s, to 24s. per hogshead. With the proposed addition, therefore, it would be subject to 36s. per hogshead. He hoped, however, that the new duty would not attach to the stock on hand. If it should be so proposed, he declared his intention to oppose it.—The resolution was agreed to, as were the others, and bills ordered accordingly.

ROMAN CATHOLIC PETITION.
Mr. Foxprevious to bringing up this Petition, addressed the house, and said, that he
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never rose with more satisfaction in the whole course of his life, than at this present moment, in being the instrument of presenting the Irish Catholic Petition to that house of parliament. Whatever might be the discussion which the subject of this petition was likely to give rise to, he was convinced it would afford a most satisfactory proof to every feeling mind, that the great body of Catholics in Ireland had to complain of numerous grievances, and that they meant to adopt the moss respectful manner of procuring redress, by this humble application to parliament. He did not think that the present would be a proper time to make any further observations upon the subject, and he should therefore only move for leave to bring up the petition. He then stated shortly the substance of the petition;. and leave being given to bring it up, Mr. Fox appeared at the bar, and brought up the petition, which was then read by the clerk (see p. 97). After it was read, Mr. Fox moved that the petition do lie on the table. On this motion being put from the chair,
Mr. Cartwrightrose. He said it was not his intention on that occasion to enter into the merits of the question, but he could not help expressing his regret, that the subject of the petition was likely to be brought to a discussion under the present circumstances of the country. Much as he lamented what did pass upon the subject not long since, and much as he lamented the importance attached at that time to the immediate concession of the privileges withheld from the Catholics, he was in hopes no further steps would have been taken to accomplish that object, till at least there was some reason to suppose no insurmountable difficulties stood in the way of its attainment; and he could not help expressing his surprize, that the advocates for these concessions should be so anxious for a discussion, knowing as they do all the circumstances of the case, and the certainty of no success. He could not comprehend the policy or patriotism of creating a discussion, if not likely to go further, and of thus unseasonably agitating a subject of such general expectation and importance, on which the feelings of the inhabitants of Ireland were so unhappily alive, and which may lead to no small fermentation and disturbance in that country.
Mr. Foxsaid, that the hon. member had alluded to an insurmountable obstacle; but what that obstacle was, the hon. gent.

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had not mentioned. He should wait to hear, upon the discussion of the measure to which the petition referred, what the nature of that obstacle was, and then he should take occasion to state his opinion respecting it. At present he should only say, that it was his intention to appoint a day for the discussion of a proposition founded on the petition. From information received, he understood that the Irish members were for the most part at present in Ireland, upon the business of the assizes, and that they could not conveniently return for some time. It was his wish to fix upon as early a day as possible; he should mention the 9th of May, but in the course of the ensuing week he should be able to state the precise day.
Dr. Duigenanurged the propriety of ascertaining with precision the day on which the motion of the hon. gent. would be brought forward, and hoped he would positively fix on the 9th of May for that purpose.
Mr. Foxhad no objection whatever to that day himself, but until he had consulted those who were more immediately interested, he did not feel entitled to say that that should certainly be the day on which he would make his motion.—Adjourned.