Commons Sitting of 6 December 1803

MINUTES.—
Mr. Graham,Inspector of Convicts on the river Thames, presented an account of the state of the hulks from Christmas to Michaelmas. Ordered to lie on the table.—Mr. Robinson, from the London Dock Company, presented an account of receipts and disbursements, from the 1st of June 1802 to the 31st of May 1803. Ordered to lie on the table.—Mr. Johnson from the office of the Chief Secretary in Ireland, presented an account of the distribution of the sum of 500,000 l. voted last session to the Directors of Inland Navigation in Ireland, and of the different sums granted to Grand Juries, which were ordered to lie on the table.—Sir F. Burdett brought up the Report of the Committee on the Petition of the Parish of St. Pancras, which Was read and agreed to, and a bill ordered.—The Secretary at War appeared at the bar and stated, that he was commanded by his Majesty to acquaint die House, that his Majesty had caused Major-General Napper Christie Burton to be put under an arrest, for a breach of military discipline.—He then moved, that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, that king his Majesty for his most gracious communication, and for his tender regard for the privilege of that House, Ordered,—Mr. Secretary Yorke moved, in pursuance of all order of the day, that the House should go into a Committee on the Irish Habeas Corpus Suspension Bill, The bill having gone though the Committee;

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the report was brought up, and ordered to be received to-morrow.—Mr. Secretary Yorke moved also, that the House do go into a Committee on the Irish Martial Law Bill. The House having accordingly resolved into the committee, and the clauses having been filled up, the report was brought up, and ordered to be received to-morrow.—The Report of the Committee of Supply of yesterday on the Transport Service, &c. was brought up, and the Resolutions read, and agreed to.—The Indemnity Bill, after a clause was received into it, on the motion of Mr. Corry, extending the provisions to Ireland, past a Committee of the whole House, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow r.iorning.—The Irish Sugar Bounty Bill went through the same stage.—The Bill to prohibit Distillation from Oats in Ireland was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.—As also the Portugal Wine Bonding Duty Bill.—The Bank of England Restriction Bill was read a third time and past.—The Malt Duty Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow morning. The Irish Small Note Suspension Bill went through the same progress.—The Five Million Exchequer Loan Bill went also through the same progress—The Irish Corn, Potatoe, and Provision Bills, in like manner, past the same stage.—As did also the Curates Relief Bill, and the English Sugar Drawback Bill.

IRISH BANK, RESTRICTION BILL.—
Mr. Corrymoved the order of the day for the second reading of the Irish Bank Restriction Bill and on the motion that the bill be now read a second time,
Lord Archibald Hamiltonrose. Pie said, he did not see any reason why the restriction of payments in specie should be continued, either on the Bank of England or Ireland, to the protracted period of six months after the ratification of the preliminaries of peace It must be obvious, his lordship thought, to every person, that the paper currency of Ireland was already carried to an alarming extent. It was his intention, he said, to move in the committee, that there should be a restriction of paper circulation in Ireland, and that the Directors of that Bank should be made responsible for the issues they should make.
Mr. Corry,in reply to the noble lord, admitted that it was, no doubt, a subject of regret, that the paper currency of Ireland was carried to such an extent. He was ready to admit this; but, at the same time, he thought the noble lord had better delay any motion
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of that kind till a more advanced period of the session. Many of the member, from Ireland were now absent, being engaged on account of the peculiarity of the times, and of the situation of their native country, in their military avocations. Their absence, from such ostensible and laudable motives, would be readily admitted by every man as highly to their honour. He had no objection that this subject should be brought before the. House; but he thought it was only fair, that a discussion of this kind should not be entered into in the absence of those gentlemen, who were most concerned, and who were most likely to understand the subject. It was probable that, after the recess, many of the Irish members would be able to attend the House. The hon. gentleman, proposed, therefore, to refer the business till a distant period, when such gentlemen might be present, and when accounts might be produced for that purpose. The hon. gentleman also, he said, would be enabled by such a delay to make up his mind upon the subject.—He concluded by moving, that the bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House} on Monday, the 13th of February.—Agreed to.

ORDER TOR COL. GRANT'S ATTENDANCE.—
Colonel F. W. Grant,who, on account of his absence on the Waterford Committee, had been ordered to attend in his place to-morrow, rose, and expressed his regret that he had given any trouble to the House. He stated, that it had been his intention, notwithstanding his military avocations, to attend, if absolutely necessary, on his duties connected with that House. From corresponding, however, with a friend in London, he was led to understand, that election committees were necessarily dissolved at the termination of the session, and that consequently his attendance on the Water-ford Committee was no longer necessary. The failure of duty of which he had been guilty had arisen from this misapprehension, and not from any intention to transgress the regulations of the House. The moment, ho said, he had received the order of that House for his attendance, he had set out from Dundee, where his regiment was now stationed, and where it would be necessary for him to return immediately. His military duties were of an imperious nature. He relied, therefore, on the indulgence of the House, and hoped they would attribute his absence, not to any want of respect for the House, or to any tendency to neglect his duty, but to the misapprehensions he had already stated, and the imperious commands of military duty.
The Speakerstated, that it was usual, in

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such cases for the House to say whether they were satisfied with the apology or not, and then either to discharge the gentleman from attendance on the committee, if satisfied; or, if nor satisfied with the gentleman's apology, the House would order his attendance to-morrow, as formerly.
Mr. Plumerrose and moved, "that, in consequence of the hon. gentleman's apology, the order for his attendance to-morrow be discharged."—The motion was agreed to, and (he order was discharged accordingly.—Colonel Grant returned his sin cere thanks to the House for their indulgence.

EAST INDIA BONDS.—
Lord Castlereaghmoved the order of the day, for the House to resolve itself into a committee on the bill for regulating the rate of interest on the bonds issued by the East India Company. On the I motion, that the Speaker do now leave the chair,
Mr. Dentrose, not to oppose the committal of the bill, but to call the attention of the House to the principal feature of it, which he considered rather extraordinary, as giving an indulgence to the East India Company, which he thought extremely partial, and one from which every individual and corporate body in this kingdom, was precluded. A few nights since, the hon. Secretary of the Treasury, in answer to a question put to him by an hon. member on his side of the House, respecting the tax on property and income, amongst other things had declared it to be the intention of government, to go through with the assessment of the tax, during the present year, in the manner prescribed by the existing bill. Now the present bill introduced by the noble lord, was calculated to affect, by a side wind, an exemption of the bonds of the India Company from the law to which every other species of public stock was liable; and, consequently, to give those bon is a considerable advantage at market, over Exchequer Bills and every other species of stuck; for the whole of the interest payable on Exchequer Bills, amounted to 51. 6s. 3d. per cent, per aim. payable yearly, and he could see no reason why an exemption should be extended to India Bonds, which would give them a preference at market over Exchequer Bills, seeing that they engaged a preference by the interest thereon being paid half-yearly. At least, if such an exemption as this was given to the public funds of the India Company, with a privilege of borrow mg at such an extraordinary advance of interest, he could see no right in precluding other corporations from a similar advantage.
Lord Castlereaghrose, and, in answer to that part of Mr. Dent's speech which referred to the Income Tax, said, that the declaration of his hon. friend neither had, nor ought to have, any reference to the affairs of the East-India Company; and he trusted that the House would not consider, at the present crisis, that any regulations which his Majesty's ministers might deem necessary in assessing the income Tax upon the property of individuals, ought to stand in the way of an important and necessary regulation, most materially interesting to the funds of a great commercial company, with the success of whose concerns die public revenues of this country were so deeply interested. He begged to call the attention of the House to the annual amount of the revenue paid to this country by the East-India Company, amounting, on an average, to £3,226,000 annually; and he trusted the House would feel too sensibly the importance of that concern which the country must have in the welfare of a company yielding such important aid to the state, to refuse, on light or trivial grounds, its assent to such regulations in die management of their funds and capital, as should be absolutely necessary to carry on their commercial concerns, under the present circumstances of the empire, without material disadvantage: for it was the province of the East-India Company, even under all the vicissitudes and disadvantages of war, to promote the commercial prosperity of the country in the most distant quarters of the globe; and this was not to be done unless they were enabled to keep a certain quantity of their funds afloat, and prevent them from returning back to their treasury, whereby their capital would be most materially diminished, and their means of trade consequently cramped. This could only be effected by enabling (hem so to regulate their rates of interest, as to maintain that respectability to their bonds, at market, which would prevent a decided preference of other-funds, to the depreciation of theirs. The hon. member had said, that the bonds of the company stood in no need of such aid, for that they at present enjoyed an advantage at market over Exchequer Bills, on account of their interest being payable half yearly. The fact, however, was otherwise; for Exchequer Bills were now at a premium of one shilling above par, whereas India Bonds were at a discount of two shillings. The noble lord then went generally into some financial statements of the company, in support of the bill: and contended that the increase of interest on their bonds was

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necessary to give them currency abroad. He concluded by expressing a hope that the House would not refuse this indulgence to a great trading company, in whom the revenue and the state were so materially concerned.
Mr. Johnsonsaid, the statement of the noble lord this night was in perfect consistency with the conduct adopted uniformly by him respecting the affairs of the company. In the last session, he amused the House with a pompous statement of the flourishing situation of their finances, and the brilliant prospects of their prosperity: but what is the first illustration the noble lord gives in this session? Why, a new plea of embarrassment, and a new appeal to the indulgence of the House, for the privilege of borrowing money, to answer their exigencies, at a much higher interest than any other corporate body, or individual in this country, dares venture to offer. Such was the conduct he should ever expect from the noble lord, so long as he presided over the conduct of India affairs; ever complaining of existing embarrassments, and ever holding out specious promises of future prosperity.
Mr. Vansittartsaid, that the present bill purported no more than a temporary relief to the India Company, from a species of embarrassment which in time of war must more or less affect all borrowers, public or private. The government of the country, at such times, always filled up its loans upon worse terms than were to be had in times of peace; and no company or individual could expect to be exempt from similar disadvantages: there was nothing, therefore, unreasonable, or unfair, in this mode of enabling the India Company to meet the terms upon which only their demands could be supplied.
Mr. Charles Grantsaid, the object of the bill was not to place the company in a better situation, but to prevent it from being placed in a worse situation. India bonds were coming in every day to be paid, and if the Property Tax was to be deducted at the India-House in fractional parts, according to the number of weeks and days upon which it might be necessary to calculate, it would create endless confusion and embarrassment, and must tend to depreciate the bonds.
Mr. William Dundasalso supported the bill; and denied there was any truth in the arguments of the hon. gent, opposite him (Mr. Johnson), that there was any proof in this bill of any embarrassment in the circumstances of the East-India Company, or
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any thing which could found a fair opinion against their prosperity.—After some further conversation, the question was put and carried, and the House having resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill, went through the same, and it was ordered to be reported to-morrow.