HL Deb 27 May 2004 vol 661 cc1431-3

11.7 a.m.

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, in the event that the photographs of alleged ill treatment by British troops of Iraqi prisoners, published by the Daily Mirror, were purchased by that newspaper, what action, including criminal charges, they anticipate will be taken against the former editor.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, the Government are unable to comment on specific cases. It would be inappropriate to speculate on action, if any, that could or might be taken against the former editor of the Daily Mirror, not least because of the effect that such speculation might have on any action that could or might be considered appropriate.

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer, but it is surely a fact that a nation, irrespective of personal opinion or prejudice, does not caricature, exploit or seek to discredit our Armed Forces at a time of conflict. We recognise that those we call on in times of war do not have the opportunity of reply. Did the dishonest activity of Piers Morgan not compare with the treachery of William Joyce? Was it not high treason and should this latter-day Lord Haw-Haw not be made to face the full rigours of the law?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, that is less a question and more a statement of opinion. As I have indicated to the House, there are legal proceedings involved in respect of a case relating to soldiers in our Armed Forces. Therefore, we have to take the greatest care in making any comment that might affect any such proceedings.

Lord McNally

My Lords, regardless of the issue of the Armed Forces, to which the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, rightly draws attention, would it not be a good rule of thumb that when the cheque book comes out, news values go out of the window, and that the Press Complaints Commission should continue to enforce the strictest of codes of conduct about the use of cheque-book journalism?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, that is a broader question of press responsibility. I know that the noble Lord has been very active in the past on that matter. He is right that in the past there have been clear cases of abuse in the field of cheque-book journalism. Of course, the Press Complaints Commission recently strengthened its code with regard to journalism. It is primarily that body that must take responsibility for action in such areas where the code is broken.

Baroness Buscombe

My Lords, does the Minister think that the newly published, amended code of practice for the Press Complaints Commission has made one iota of difference to the mindset of newspaper editors?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, judging the mindset of newspaper editors is a difficult task for all of us. We all recognise that there is a great variety in the British press, and that is one of its glories. The idea that each and every editor pays due regard to the Press Complaints Commission in equal measure is certainly fanciful. Some clearly have much less respect for its work than others. But the noble Baroness will know that representative editors serve on the Press Complaints Commission and play their part in its work.

Lord Dubs

My Lords, is that not just part of the problem—that the Press Complaints Commission has on it a number of people who are actually prime movers in some of the issues that come before it? Are the Government satisfied that the PCC does the job that we want it to do, or ought the Government to be moving to a different structure for dealing with the issue?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, as my noble friend will recognise, the Government are extremely cautious about any additional or alternative move, not least because the issue of press freedom is one that we all recognise is of crucial value to our democracy. It is right that the Government should tread with great care in that area.

As for the participation of editors, it might be recognised that it cuts both ways. As my noble friend suggested, it may give them a voice on the commission, which affects its judgments, but it is also the case that they are outnumbered by lay members—and those appointments are now advertised freely. Those lay members have the benefit of working beside working, practical journalists of the highest level, who make their contribution to the issues before them.

Lord Chan

My Lords, as the Minister approves of the change made by the Press Complaints Commission in getting more lay members, I declare that I am one of those lay members. Are there other actions that he thinks the Press Complaints Commission could take to strengthen self-regulation?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, as the noble Lord and most Members of the House will recognise, the recent changes came into effect only two months ago. Consequently, it is a little premature to make a judgment on the increased effectiveness. Such changes to the code to improve the position have been made in response to previous complaints. I detect, certainly from the question that I have just answered, that there are a number of Members of this House, and, of course, of the other place, for whom the structure of the Press Complaints Commission is not a satisfactory answer to the overall position. But the Government will tread here with very great care indeed.

Lord Tordoff

My Lords, I declare a former interest, as I was the predecessor of the noble Lord, Lord Chan, on the Press Complaints Commission. Is not the problem that we face that we either continue with self-regulation, and try to make it more effective, or we go in for a statutory body regulating the press? This is a difficult balance to achieve but there is no doubt that any pressure that can be put on the Press Complaints Commission to tighten up the code at any time and to make sure that the editors who stray from it are properly dealt with, not only by the Press Complaints Commission, but by their proprietors, would be desirable.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that the only significant, dramatic action other than strengthening the role of the Press Complaints Commission and seeking to ensure that it does its job adequately would be statutory regulation. That would take us down a path that I think very few Members of this House would wish to follow.

Baroness Strange

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the lifeblood of a newspaper is its circulation? If people stopped buying and reading a newspaper it would shrivel up and die.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right. There was one very dramatic instance when offence was caused to people of one city in this country which had a very dramatic effect upon circulation, which dropped in that city. In that respect, there is a response from the public in the most extreme cases.

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