HL Deb 23 June 2004 vol 662 cc1235-7

2.48 p.m.

Lord Redesdale

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What future plans they have for the Illicit Trade Advisory Panel.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, the past four years have been important in seeing the key recommendations of the Illicit Trade Advisory Panel's 2000 report being successfully implemented or under way. My right honourable friend Estelle Morris is considering what future advisory structures should best be in place for the Government to continue to draw on specialist advice in this important area, and expects to be in a position to make a decision before the Recess.

Lord Redesdale

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Why was no provision made for a replacement when closing ITAP down was originally considered? On what basis is there specialist knowledge within the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to ensure enforcement in the area of illicit trade, because the department does not seem to have experts in this field?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, as the noble Lord will recognise, ITAP was set up to produce a series of recommendations and a crucial report in 2000, which it did. The Government have begun the process of implementing the report's main recommendations. Two of them—access to the UNESCO convention and the introduction of an Act to make certain activities illegal—have already been implemented.

The noble Lord is right to indicate that the Government will need to call on expert help. However, he will recognise that the committee was there not to implement policy but to make recommendations on what policy should be carried out. It has performed that task.

Lord Faulkner of Worcester

My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that it is unacceptable for Internet auction houses, such as eBay, to take such a cavalier attitude towards the items of treasure that appear on its website? Is it not time that auction houses are subject to the Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Act 2003?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention to a potential abuse. The Government are working with the Portable Antiquities Scheme to inform eBay of any potential breaches of the Treasure Act 1996 or the Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Act. Of course, the Government and the department would not be responsible for bringing any prosecution—that would be a matter for the police and prosecuting authorities.

Lord Lea of Crondall

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the high degree of expertise in Britain in the field of antiquities was the reason the British Museum played the leading role in co-ordinating the international effort after the looting of the Iraq Museum? It obtained the agreement of UNESCO—as well as that of the Hermitage, the Louvre and the Smithsonian—to take the lead, and it is very important that the Government do everything that they can to sustain this leadership role and competence.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, that is certainly the case. My noble friend has emphasised the crucial role played by the British Museum in an area where we recognise that prompt—even emergency—action was necessary because of the real difficulties that developed in Iraq. I am able to report to the House that more than half the stolen objects from Iraq have been recovered. Of course, that still leaves a substantial amount of work to be done. My noble friend is right to draw attention to the fact that the British Museum has played a critical leading role in this work.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, going back to the days of the late Lord Perth, when that Bill that he so loved went through this House after three tries, one was totally dependent on the British Museum. Is there any reason to think that the British Museum's help plus the help of the noble Lord, Lord Renfrew—who I am sorry is not here today—is not available to the department?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, on the contrary. Such help is absolutely critical to the department. I accept the point that was made earlier in this Question Time that the department does not carry enormous amounts of expertise in highly specialist areas and will need to draw on the resources of the British Museum— and one or two noble and distinguished Members of this House. I also regret that the noble Lord, Lord Renfrew, is unable to be present today. He expressed his regret that he could not participate in these exchanges.