Multiculturalism (Hansard, 27 April 2004)

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, the Government believe in integration with diversity. That means both breaking down the barriers to, and positively promoting, integration, including working with communities to face down racism and other forms of extremism. They agree with the chairman of the CRE that everyone should be able to feel part of Britain and that their culture is valued and respected.

§ Lord Chan
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that very helpful and encouraging reply. With regard to the issue of integration and feeling part of the country, would she not agree that employment is a very important aspect? Therefore, is she not dismayed to read of recent studies that show that the unemployment rates for Bangladeshis, Pakistanis and Caribbean people is somewhere between two and a half to four times higher than those for the general population?
With that in mind, I want to congratulate Her Majesty's Government on putting into place the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000. As a result, all the statutory bodies that are signed up must have race equality schemes and ensure that they are implemented. To what extent have the Government been able to find out about the usefulness of race equality schemes in terms of employment and retention at work?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Chan, about the importance of employment. It is true that we are distressed that there appears to be a disproportionate approach to unemployment. The Government, through the measures mentioned by the noble Lord, such as the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 and others, are doing everything that we can to address the issue of inequality to ensure that there is a greater parity of treatment, and that any unfair discrimination is eradicated. We are continuing to do that across the piece of government activity, and monitoring as we go.

§ Lord Northbourne
My Lords, would the Minister agree that the differentials in employment are not unconnected with the differentials in educational achievement that we discussed in the first Question?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, can I say "Yes and no"? One of the issues that has been raised is 683 whether those with similar educational attainment are given similar opportunities. Even when those from BME communities have similar educational attainments or exceed the norm, there is a question mark as to whether they are treated equally.

§ The Lord Bishop of Chester
My Lords, would the Minister agree that it is perfectly possible to be enthusiastically British and yet also to support a different cricket team when it is engaged in a test match with England, provided that when England plays another country that person supports England itself? I notice that my Scottish friends find that insight hard to accept sometimes. Would it not be the true interpretation of multiculturalism that one can be culturally bilingual and entirely British in the process?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I certainly agree with the right reverend Prelate that one can enthusiastically support another country when it is playing Britain but then against all others Britain comes first. There are real benefits in celebrating diversity. I reiterate what I said in answer to the last Question: we in Britain have always had a diverse community, and we are, I hope, learning to celebrate it more easily now.

§ Lord McNally
My Lords, from these Benches, I assure the Minister of our full support for Trevor Phillips and his leadership of the CRE. Following on from what the right reverend Prelate has just said, did the Minister read in this morning's Guardian about Mr Sajid Mahmood, aged 22, who has just come back from a family wedding in Pakistan? Mr Mahmood has been watching Lancashire league cricket with his dad since he was five, joined the Lancashire team when he was 17, and his ambition, once he gets his bowling speed up to 100 miles an hour, is to play for England. Is that not a true reflection of 21st century Britain— and should we not all thank God that he was not born in Yorkshire?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, in relation to the Yorkshire/Lancashire question, I shall be truly British and say nothing. The noble Lord has given us an exemplar from which we can understand that we can cull the benefit of the rich variety that is now ours, to make Britain the very best that it can be.

§ Lord Roberts of Conwy
My Lords, nevertheless, do the Government not agree with Mr Phillips' recent statement that we should assert a core of Britishness rather than go on about multiculturalism?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, there are core British values. The point made by Mr Phillips was that multiculturalism has been interpreted by some to mean separatism. That is the difficulty. Language mutates; as an example, most of us in our generation would say that "bad" means "not good", but that is not an interpretation shared by the younger generation, who say that "bad" and "wicked" mean 684 good things and not bad things. That is what has happened to multiculturalism—it has come to mean separatism as opposed to integration with diversity.

§ Lord Blackwell
My Lords, does it follow from what the Minister said that the Government support the concept of a strong sense of nationhood as underpinning a stable and confident society? Would she therefore accept that nothing should be done in the name of multiculturalism to suppress that sense of national pride, however much we accept and take pride in different cultures?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I know an EU question cunningly disguised when I hear it! I can certainly say to the noble Lord that we are very proud of a nation that is multicultural and diverse, and that this Government will always protect what is quintessentially British.

§ Viscount Bridgeman
My Lords, while we welcome the very responsible initiatives by the Muslim Council of Britain, can the Minister tell the House what steps have been taken to counter the serious hate campaign, particularly among third-generation Muslims? An example of that was the recent burning of the Union flag in Regent's Park.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, we have had outreach programmes on a whole series of issues, not only by the Home Office but also by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. I can certainly assure noble Lords that the sort of behaviour that the noble Lord described is, as he indicated, not supported by the majority of the Muslim community. There is a small section of all our community that is dysfunctional in the way in which it expresses itself. It would be a very sad day if we equated that with the majority—it is a minority view.