§ 3.32 p.m.
§ Lord Rowallan asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ What progress has been made by the task force set up to find a buyer for the Govan shipyard, in view of its planned sale by Kvaerner.
§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Macdonald of Tradeston)My Lords, since its formation, the task force has had a round of exploratory meetings with a range of interested parties, including the management and workforces of the Govan shipyard and Clydebank engineering works, the local enterprise companies, local authorities and other organisations with an interest in the future of the companies. These meetings will, I trust, be the start of a process which will allow Kvaerner to dispose of its operations on Clydeside through arrangements that ensure continuing employment on the present scale in shipbuilding and engineering.
§ Lord RowallanMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply and wish the task force well. Will the Minister 1233 comment on Swan Hunter's interest in the yard, and in particular press speculation that it is only interested in the yard for small ship manufacture? As this is the last major large shipbuilding non-military yard left on the Clyde, and we already have two small yards further down the river in the form of Ferguson's of Port Glasgow and Ailsa at Troon, does not the Minister feel that we have an over-capacity of small shipbuilding and that we should be concentrating on getting a large builder to take over the Govan yard to ensure the long-term future for the workforce of that yard?
§ Lord Macdonald of TradestonMy Lords, there have been a number of expressions of interest in the Govan shipyard since the task force was formed, and no doubt other expressions of interest have gone to the Kvaerner company as the owner of the assets. We were pleased, as was everyone on Clydeside, that Swan Hunter came forward with a proposition. At the moment that is in rudimentary form. It does not contain a business plan. It has gone away to think about aspects of operations on Clydeside in more detail, having met the task force; and no doubt that will be subject to commercial negotiations with Kvaerner at the appropriate time.
§ Lord Monro of LangholmMy Lords, are not the Government concerned about their economic policies in Scotland, in that under their policies we have lost 14,000 jobs in two years? Also, can the Minister tell me whether there is a possibility of advancing orders by the Ministry of Defence for roll-on roll-off ferries, which I understand are not subject to European Union competitive policy? That might be an important way of enhancing the bids for the new yard.
§ Lord Macdonald of TradestonMy Lords, the figure quoted is not one that is familiar to me. From the statistics produced yesterday, the civilian workforce job series suggested that 25,000 extra jobs were created in 1998 in Scotland. Total employment has fallen over the year by 16,000. Noble Lords will be interested to hear that, based on ILO unemployment statistics, there was a decline of 5,000 in the unemployment figures in Scotland over the year, down to a figure of 7.2 per cent.—less than that of the North-East, Merseyside, Wales or indeed London.
On the second point, my understanding is that we have in prospect the possibility of building six ferries. These are commercial vessels. They need not be built; they could be supplied as part of a PFI order, and therefore the noble Lord is incorrect in asserting that they could be directed and would not be subject to European restrictions. I shall investigate that and if I am wrong I shall write to the noble Lord.
§ Lord Mackay of ArdbrecknishMy Lords, is the Minister aware that I, at least, sympathise with the position in which he finds himself of possibly being the Labour Government Minister who presides over the demise of the last major shipyard in Scotland, especially 1234 as I know he started work in that very yard many years ago? However, I hope he will be able to tell the House that the Government's objective is to save a shipyard that builds major ships, as my noble friend Lord Rowallan asked. That is vitally important. Is the Minister aware that any diminution of that role for Govan would mean a huge reduction in jobs? Is he further aware that that would add to the 16,000 fewer jobs we have in Scotland since this time last year? Lastly, does he appreciate the positive and sympathetic attitude of the Opposition in this case in contrast to the attitude taken by the then Opposition when Conservative governments had to face dramatic closures in Scotland.
§ Lord Macdonald of TradestonMy Lords, as a point of correction, I started my working life in a small shipyard with only 5,000 men next door to the shipyard in question. But we take seriously the threat to the building of large vessels in the Clyde. That is not in any way to diminish the achievements of Ferguson's shipyard further down the river which has been extremely successful in winning new work. But it would be the ambition of the task force—ably led by Sir Gavin Laird who has a great deal of engineering arid shipbuilding experience on the task force—to try to ensure that we find employment through arrangements that maintain work at its present level. But I wish to stress that, although 800 jobs are threatened in Govan, almost 800 further jobs are threatened in Clydebank, not in shipbuilding but in engineering. We will therefore make every effort to try to get a positive outcome for both sides of the Clyde.