Meat Hygiene Service (Hansard, 19 April 1999)

§ The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Donoughue)
My Lords, enforcement of meat hygiene legislation in licensed fresh meat premises in Great Britain is carried out by the Meat Hygiene Service, an executive agency of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. All officers of the Meat Hygiene Service are fully trained to standards required by European Union directives which are enshrined in United Kingdom law.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the essential difference between an ordinary veterinary surgeon and an officer of the Official Veterinary Service is that he or she has law enforcement powers? On that basis, does he find it acceptable that young female Spanish vets with a poor understanding of our language, who have little understanding of British law and British law enforcement methods, should be placed in a position where they are enforcing the law for a group of British citizens after only one week's training? Would he find it comparatively acceptable if 300 young Spanish people were dressed in Metropolitan Police uniforms, given one week's training and put out on the streets to enforce the law in this country?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, all vets working for the Meat Hygiene Service have training in enforcement and other matters. The hierarchy of enforcement is set out in the manual of their training.
937 I should point out that no junior vet, as described, would be able to pursue the law against an abattoir owner. Senior veterinary officers are involved at an early stage, and no reference to the law can be made other than by the director of operations in the Meat Hygiene Service and then the legal side of the service will consider it. It is not the case that a junior and inexperienced vet will bring down the full force of the law on a British meat operator.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, is it not true that the latest diktat from Brussels means that we shall require another 400 of these OVSs, that costs will have to rise by a further 128 per cent, and that many more small firms will therefore go out of business? Given the plenteous supply of foreign OVSs, can the Minister tell the House what other EU countries are doing about meat hygiene?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, from our investigations other countries are pursuing meat hygiene under the European Union directive broadly in the way that we are.
The costs are increased because of the need for increased supervision and inspection. That is following infraction procedures taken against us because the previous administration under-implemented the rules. We are suffering because of that. Costs are higher in this country. One reason is that the costs of British vets are significantly higher than the costs of vets trained in other European countries—sometimes 300 per cent higher.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, can the Minister inform the House as to the nature and reference number of the European legislation which amended ordinary British law prior to its coming into existence in this matter? If it is dependent upon European legislation, will the noble Lord inform the House of the exact nature of that, preferably by referring to the number by which it can become identified?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, I have learned not to tangle with my noble friend on details of European legislation. However, I shall arrange for the noble Lord to be written to. I hope that there will be an appropriate number in it to satisfy him.

§ Lord Beaumont of Whitley
My Lords, is it true that no deaths have been traced through negligence in red meat abattoirs in this country over the past 30 years? If that is so—and I believe that it is—what is the purpose of this bureaucracy?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, the purpose of inspection and supervision of our abattoirs and other meat plants is to protect the public health in every way.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, on the costs of the meat hygiene inspectors, is the noble Lord aware that in many rural parts of this country abattoirs will cease to exist? On a recent visit to Stornoway it 938 was brought home to me that the abattoir there could easily cease to exist and the crofters return to the old-fashioned method of slaughtering at home. Does the Minister think that this will be an improvement in meat hygiene?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord that small abattoirs have an important function, especially in the more remote parts of the United Kingdom. That is why we are looking at whatever ways we can to protect and preserve them. However, as I am sure he is aware, this is against a background in which there is an oversupply of abattoirs and in which profit margins are extremely tight. We cannot wholly prevent the workings of the free market.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, can the Minister tell us who or which body he thinks should pay for this increased enforcement? Does the noble Lord think that the beef farmers are so rich that they can pay for it; or does he think that the distributors and the retailers are better able to do so?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, under European Union law we are required to recover from the industry the full costs of the supervision. We are in the process of doing that.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the closing of small abattoirs up and down the country is not only bad for them and their owners but for the animals, which will have to travel greater distances to slaughter? Will my noble friend give that matter a good deal of consideration, because if he does not many animal lovers in the country will not be happy with his performance?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that as regards animal welfare it is helpful if there is an abattoir, small or otherwise, in close access. Small abattoirs often perform a service for the small producer who needs access to a nearby abattoir which will take only a few animals. I wholly agree that small abattoirs perform a very importance service.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, the Minister said that other countries will establish broadly the same service. Is there an indication that the EU will apply the same standards to Portugal, which has only five inspectors to cover its 200 abattoirs?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, that matter has given us considerable concern. The department has made inquiries into practices on the Continent of Europe and the Meat Livestock Commission is in the process of doing so. The bulk of the information does not meet the anecdotal belief that on the Continent they do not apply these rules. I do not have information with me on Portugal, but if we have it I shall write to the noble Baroness.