Apples: EU Marketing Standards (Hansard, 29 October 1996)

Lord Lucas
My Lords, there are no new regulations that would limit the size of apples on sale within the European Union. Quality and marketing standards have operated in the United Kingdom in various forms since 1928. The European Union marketing standards have 224 been in place in the United Kingdom since 1973 and were last amended, in consultation with the industry, in 1990.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, I am not surprised that the noble Lord is not aware of the regulation concerned. There has been a deluge of regulations over the past couple of months with which the Government have not yet caught up. Would he care to get in touch with the prospective Conservative parliamentary candidate for Tunbridge Wells, who is also the principal director of Asda, and inquire of him what precipitated his move to dump on the market thousands of such undersized apples free of charge?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, indeed, I have been in contact with Mr. Norman. I think that he had a most amusing stunt which I am sure added greatly to the publicity for Asda and perhaps to his candidacy for another place. I do not believe that it has any relevance to the regulation.

§ Lord Boardman
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, whatever the state of the regulations, it is appropriate that the diameter of an apple should be assessed by the retailer and the consumer and not by some bureaucratic body?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, there is a great deal to be said for setting standards. First, it enables international trade to take place and international buyers to know what they are getting. Secondly, it helps to keep the quality image of British produce up at the top where it should be. One has to face the fact that small apples tend to be immature and not to taste so good. Noble Lords may disagree but the fact of the matter is that so far as concerns the English Cox, size matters.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that his last reply is most worrying? He will recall that his right honourable friend Douglas Hurd, when he was Foreign Secretary, said that he did not want the European Union to interfere in the nooks and crannies of our national life. It now seems that the Minister is quite happy for the European Union to interfere with our Granny Smiths and indeed our Cox's Orange Pippins. Perhaps he will reconsider his remarks.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, as I said in my initial Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, these regulations, or something very similar, have been in place since 1928, when I believe the noble Lord would have been a boy in body as well as in mind. Maybe he enjoyed his time scrumping apples. I am sure that he chose the bigger ones when he did so because apples are best to eat when they are ripe and appealing to the eye. Since 1928 we have pursued a policy that allowing small apples onto the market would tend to diminish the regard in which English apples are held. Before we joined the European Union, I believe that those arrangements were voluntary. Since joining the European Union they have become compulsory because of the way in which size restrictions interact with 225 intervention. I am sure the noble Lord will be delighted to know that today we have agreed a very substantial amendment to the European fruit and vegetable regime which will result in a 40 per cent. reduction in intervention prices and limitation to 10 per cent. of any producer organisation's output. That will take us a long way down the road towards no restrictions and back to the original pattern of recommendations rather than rules.

§ Baroness Oppenheim-Barnes
My Lords, does my noble friend accept the saying that many of us have used for years; namely, that you should not judge an apple by its size?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, nonetheless, one can judge a good deal about an apple by its size.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, is the Minister saying that what was a quality standard is now enforceable by European regulations?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, yes. We cannot market apples that do not conform with the quality standards; otherwise we will have problems under intervention. The noble Lord will recall the extent of the problem with Greek nectarines which resulted in 70 per cent. of an unmarketable crop being accepted for intervention. That was a scandal we would not wish to see repeated in the apple market.

§ Lord Tebbit
My Lords, does my noble friend recollect the Answer he gave me in October last year concerning the sale of nectarines of less than two-and-a-quarter inches in diameter? He told me then that, The Commission has sought to tackle this to some extent by limiting the size of fruit that can be marketed and thus limiting the cost to EU taxpayers". He went on to say, In the forthcoming reform of the EC Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Regime, the UK will be pressing for the abolition of withdrawal aid. Then, the needs of the market will determine the size of the fruit that is available to the consumer".—[Official Report, 16/10/96; cols. WA 76–77.] Is that not an extremely good ambition? Have we yet achieved it?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, yes, it is a good ambition; but no, we have not yet achieved it. We are making progress towards it.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that a number of factors affect the size of apples; for instance, the number of fruits the tree is allowed to bear and the amount of pesticides and fertilisers used on it? In the case particularly of Cox's Orange Pippins, is the Minister aware that many mothers like the small 226 apples for their children? They can cope with a small apple but not with a huge one. So half the apple goes to waste. Or perhaps that is good salesmanship.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, the minimum size for a marketable Cox is 55 millimetres, and that is a pretty small apple.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that his answers confirm what I have suspected all along? I refer to the fact that the Government are in favour of the right of the Commission to determine the size or quality of all apples sold in the United Kingdom?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, our ambition is clearly to get rid of intervention in these products. When that is gone, all need for regulation will be gone. Nonetheless, there is a need for internationally agreed standards for fruit to be internationally tradeable. As those align closely with the present Commission standards, the Commission is on exactly the right lines.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that since the regulations came into force we have been unable to sell good Scottish apples like Tower of Glamis, Bloody Ploughmen and Winter Strawberry?

Lord Lucas
My Lords, if my noble friend can persuade Asda to stock them, perhaps there will be a sufficient demand to enable us to persuade the European Union to make the necessary changes in the regulations, which are purely practical. I suspect that those apples are produced in small quantities on a local basis and therefore can be sold freely in farm shops and at the farm gate.