HL Deb 20 November 1996 vol 575 cc1256-8

2.53 p.m.

Lord Dubs asked Her Majesty's Government:

On what basis they judge the effectiveness of the bail system as a safeguard against improper use of detention powers under the Immigration Act.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, detention is used very sparingly but must be available for people who would otherwise not comply with their admission conditions. Effective safeguards are provided through review at senior levels in the Immigration Service, bail and, where appropriate, review by the courts.

Lord Dubs

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Does she remember that when this House debated the asylum Bill in the summer she gave repeated assurances that the use of bail was an effective remedy against the abuse of powers by officials who detained people under administrative procedures? Can she reconcile those assurances with the answer she gave to a Parliamentary Question a couple of years ago, when the Government admitted that they had no information at all as to whether bail was working in the case of persons detained under Immigration Act powers? Was that not misleading?

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, I have certainly not misled the House on this issue. If the noble Lord is comparing remarks made during the course of the Bill's passage through this House which were based on updated and current information with an Answer given two years previously when information was perhaps not available and the database not so up to date, I have to ask him to accept my more current information given to him during the course of debate on the Bill. I give him the reassurance now that we believe that the system is working effectively and that the safeguards that are in place are sufficient.

Lord Dubs

My Lords, the Answer to the Parliamentary Question is dated 6th November this year. In the light of that, will the Minister reconsider her reply?

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, in his supplementary question the noble Lord said, "a couple of years ago", and I answered in that light. If the noble Lord meant a couple of weeks ago, the answer is that the system is used sparingly. It is an effective use: keeping people in custody or allowing them out on bail and, after proper consideration allowing them an appeal. We believe that the safeguards are in place and are sufficient.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, will my noble friend accept that it does not appear, certainly to me, that there is any essential inconsistency at all; and that judicial discretion as to whether or not bail is granted is properly exercised and has not been criticised so far as I know?

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, my noble friend is right. If the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, believes that there is an inconsistency and that there has been a breach of procedures, we should be pleased to hear about it.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I have not heard any accusation that there has been a breach of procedures. However, is it not the case that the Minister replied to my noble friend only two weeks ago that she could not answer the question as to how many bail applications were successful and how many of those detained who applied for release were asylum seekers? Surely that is not information that could be provided only at disproportionate cost; it is fundamental information which is required by Parliament in order to understand the situation.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, there is nothing inconsistent about that. If the noble Lord asks for the number of applications for bail that are successful, they are very many indeed. It would be disproportionate to go back into the accounts. What is important is not to spend time and a great deal of money and effort retrieving that information, but the number of people detained in custody who fail to receive bail; namely, 1 per cent. of all applications. If the noble Lord is interested, I can give him the figures. As of 1st October this year, 864 people were detained. Of those detained, 82 per cent. spend less than six months in detention; some 28 per cent. spend less than one month in detention; only 34 of the 864 spend more than one year in detention.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, is it not still the fact that Britain has the highest proportion of asylum seekers in close detention of any country in Europe? Will the Minister agree that there is a case for looking at non-detention lodging houses where basic facilities could be provided, rather than the present combination of detention and throwing asylum seekers on the mercy of local authorities?

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, as the noble Lord will know following our long and arduous discussions during the course of the Bill, this country has a very high level of asylum seekers. We on these Benches have done what we can to minimise the number of abuses in the system. Happily, those reforms are now working, without the support of noble Lords opposite.