Air Safety Standards: Foreign Aircraft (Hansard, 15 July 1996)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Sectary of State, Department of Transport (Viscount Goschen)
My Lords, in January, the Government announced a package of measures to strengthen the oversight of safety standards of foreign aircraft operating to the United Kingdom. Since then the Civil Aviation Authority has carried out nine checks on such aircraft at our request. An audit of the aviation authority in Bulgaria has also been undertaken to measure that state's compliance with International Civil Aviation Organisation standards.

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Can he say whether Her Majesty's Government will encourage the publication of names of airlines whose aircraft fall below the required safety requirements, as is done in other countries, particularly the USA?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, the first point to make is that the aviation industry has been extremely successful but extremely safe. We undertake random checks of foreign aircraft in this country where we have reason to doubt that states are not complying with International Civil Aviation Organisation standards. In those circumstances, we shall invite the CAA to inspect those aircraft. Fortunately, those circumstances are very few. The results of such inspections are usually either that the aircraft are not in the condition that some people might expect in terms of the safety standards—in other words the check was satisfactory—or that measures are quickly taken to put things right. If measures are not taken to put matters right, we shall take action and possibly ban aircraft from that company.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, can my noble friend say how many foreign airlines have been supervised in this way and how many have been adversely reported upon?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, I can give the figure for the number of inspections carried out since we announced the package of new measures in January. So far, nine inspections have taken place. Where we have 612 had specific doubts about the safety condition of aircraft from other countries, the results have been largely satisfactory.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House what has been the result of those nine inspections? Have there been breaches of the minimum ICAO standards? If so, what sanctions are being applied?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, I believe I have answered that question. For the nine inspections that have taken place, the results have been largely satisfactory. There have been some minor safety questions raised and in those circumstances the national authorities have taken action to address those questions. I shall be happy to write to the noble Lord with a list of the inspections, the dates and safety concerns that were originally raised and any problems that are outstanding.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for deciding to do that. However, is he aware that there is an increasing practice of foreign airlines being used by UK operators where there is a need to bring in some additional help because of shortage of capacity and that frequently those foreign aircraft do not return to their home base? Does he believe that that is giving rise to some abuse and some considerable difficulty in being able to carry out the necessary inspections to which he alluded?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, first, the inspections to which I alluded are the exception. They take place when specific doubts are raised about the safety standards of a particular airline or country's administration. Secondly, I recognise that in the charter airline sector some charters—so-called fifth freedom charters—are undertaken by aircraft to a third country. But that is a relatively small proportion of the charters undertaken—some 5 per cent. or under. We recognise that UK charter carriers should be given a fair competition basis on which to operate. That is why I announced approximately one month ago some tightening of the measures relating to charter aircraft. To address the specific issued raised by the noble Lord, we have introduced a measure which will mean that particular charter carriers can only undertake a certain number of charters, thus preventing them from being based over here. That number is 10.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, can the Minister say whether there is any research on the relative safety of former Soviet aircraft and western aircraft respectively? If no such research has been undertaken, do the Government believe that it would be a useful idea to commission such research, in view of the anecdotal evidence that some of those Russian aircraft are less than safe?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, the first point to make is that Russia and the former states of the Soviet Union are signatories to the Chicago Convention. They are members of the International Civil Aviation 613 Organisation. The principle of the regulation of these international industries is that we mutually recognise each other's certification. We have undertaken checks from time to time on aircraft from countries of the former Soviet Union. I understand that the American federal administration has also participated in a programme. We believe that this is best done internationally on the basis of ICAO work. We are co-operating with its programme and indeed have contributed the use of some CAA experts towards that.

§ Lord Desai
My Lords, I welcome the Minister's promise that he will give information to my noble friend on the Front Bench. However, is it not proper that such information about safety should be available to everybody, especially those passengers who have some kind of citizen's charter in this area?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, the information requested by the noble Lord is largely technical. I can give some examples. There was the aircraft from Venezuela which was inspected and checked on 25th June. Nine items only were noted and no detention was warranted. An aircraft from Zimbabwe was checked on 30th April and there were no safety problems. I could read out details of the nine inspections, but it might try the patience of the House.

§ Lord Whaddon
My Lords, are the Government able to satisfy themselves that the pilots of the aircrafts are competent and physically fit, as distinct from the machines?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, that goes back to what I said earlier: that we are part of an international civil aviation industry regulated on an international basis but specifically by the member states. It is not possible for any one country to be the world's policeman. It is not possible for our Civil Aviation Authority to check every foreign pilot in the world, nor for other countries to check every English pilot. The system must work on mutual recognition. Where problems arise or where there has been an accident and that reveals difficulties, we must take action on that basis.

§ Lord Finsberg
My Lords, will my noble friend look again at the Answer he gave to our noble friend Lord Gainford? As one who travels at lot in east and central Europe, at one stage various government departments advised us not to fly with certain airlines. Can my noble friend say whether such advice is still extant and, if so, which airlines?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, advice is given on the basis of a number of factors. For instance, in some areas of the world we may give advice because we believe that there are security threats. We are talking of aviation services to and from the United Kingdom run by specific airlines. I stress the importance that we place on aviation safety. If we have doubts about a specific airline operating to and from this country, we will inspect it. If difficulties are found that cannot be overcome, we will not allow that airline to operate to this country.