Gulf War Forces: Medical Confidentiality (Hansard, 9 December 1996)

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe)
My Lords, solicitor/client privilege is recognised in law. A solicitor cannot be compelled to disclose information told to him by his client. A medical practitioner is under a legal and ethical duty to respect the confidence of his patient. This duty can, however, be broken in certain circumstances—for example, by a court order—where the interests of justice require it. I am not aware, however, of any circumstances involving Gulf War veterans where either solicitor/client privilege or medical practitioner/patient confidentiality has been broken.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that the organophosphate pesticide investigation team set up by the MoD in October has been calling sick servicemen for interviews at nine o'clock in the morning; that many of those servicemen have to rise at between four o'clock and five o'clock in the morning to get there; that the investigation team has been grilling them for three hours and then telling them that if they do not hand over what they have handed to their solicitors and medical practitioners, they will be investigated for dereliction of duty? If the MoD is serious in its investigation of the OP question, is it satisfied that it will obtain co-operation from servicemen who are treated in that way? It amounts to bullying.

Earl Howe
My Lords, there should be no question of individuals being pressured or coerced into giving information. That is not the way for these important matters to be taken forward. My clear understanding is that all interviews have been voluntary; witnesses have not in any way been compelled to attend; and evidence has not been taken on oath. Those most concerned about their condition have been interviewed in most detail, and therefore at some length. I stress that none of the interviews was adversarial or hostile, according to the information that I have. I understand that almost all witnesses were keen to talk to the team. I am confident 864 that we shall have a sufficient number of ex-servicemen coming forward to enable our research to proceed satisfactorily.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that this confidentiality, as with legal confidentiality, may always be broken at the request of the client—in this case, the patient?

Earl Howe
My Lords, my noble friend is right. What however should not happen is for the doctor or the lawyer to break that confidentiality without the explicit consent of the patient or the client.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, will the Minister rebut or confirm the allegations made by the noble Countess, Lady Mar? If they are true, and if members of a team inside the MoD have been compelling people under duress, or summoning people at unsocial hours, to give evidence, will he then say whether it is the Government's policy to do that kind of thing? If not, will he then say that he will look into his own department to ensure that it does not happen again?

Earl Howe
My Lords, I have already indicated that the noble Countess's allegations run completely contrary to my understanding. They do not represent government policy. What we must do, of course, is encourage those who believe that they are affected by their Gulf War service to come forward. That is the way that I have understood it to proceed, and I believe that that is the way that it is proceeding. Naturally, I take seriously the noble Countess's allegations and I treat them with the seriousness that I always do. I shall look closely into what she has said.

§ Baroness Park of Monmouth
My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree with me that this is an issue of honour concerning soldiers who have fought, and that it is of the utmost importance that he should be able to assure the House that they have been treated with all fairness? There is an issue here of morale and of a debt of honour.

Earl Howe
My Lords, my noble friend is quite right in all that she says. It would be retrograde were pressure to be brought to bear on ex-servicemen who have served their country well in trying circumstances when the whole object of the exercise is to get to the bottom of the allegations, which have been widespread, and to assist those very servicemen in their suffering.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I have had the opportunity to examine the correspondence that is in the possession of the noble Countess, Lady Mar, and that in my view it supports the allegations that are contained in her question? Will the Minister give the House an undertaking that her allegations will be examined extremely carefully by those above this particular investigation unit, and that a full report will be made to the House, answering in detail the questions put forward by the noble Baroness?

Earl Howe
My Lords, I am happy to give the noble Lord those assurances. If the noble Countess will furnish me with the information that she has I shall personally look into the matter.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Will he also check whether this might be a case of some interviews being more voluntary than others?

Earl Howe
My Lords, the noble Earl may have a point in the context of the noble Countess's allegations, although I do not accept that pressure has necessarily been brought to bear on anyone.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, the noble Earl has assured the House that he and his department will investigate fully the noble Countess's allegations. He has also given an assurance that a report will be made and that this House will be informed of its conclusions. May we expect that report before Christmas?

Earl Howe
My Lords, I shall look into the matter with all speed, but clearly I cannot give a specific undertaking about timing. I hope that I shall be able to report to the House prior to the Christmas Recess.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for his reply. I am willing to show him what information I have, as he has suggested. Is he aware that all that these people want is the diagnosis and treatment of their problems? If that had been done earlier there would be no case for litigation.

Earl Howe
My Lords, no writs have yet been served on the Ministry of Defence and no allegations of negligence or even causation have been made. I believe that while we all wish for matters to be processed more speedily, the Ministry has acted with speed and efficiency. I hope that they will be resolved sooner rather than later.