European Social Charter: Policy (Hansard, 28 June 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Lord Strathclyde)
My Lords, the Government made clear from the outset their view that the practical effects of the social charter would be to regulate the labour market in a way which would put jobs at risk by raising costs, reducing flexibility and making our firms less competitive in world markets. The Government are therefore unable to support the social charter.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that somewhat predictable reply. I am sure he is aware that the Government have consistently emphasised their commitment to the social dimension. If they are against the social charter, can the Minister tell us what initiatives in the social sphere they are prepared to make and support?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, we very much want to see progress in the social area. We fully support the idea of a social dimension to the single market. We believe that that is best achieved by completion of the single market, stimulating economic growth and reducing unemployment.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the social charter is a singularly well-designed instrument for increasing both unemployment and inflation?

§ Lord Strathclyde
Yes, my Lords, and now the whole House will also be aware.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, are the Government aware that the social charter's preamble makes clear and stresses that employment direction and creation must be given absolute priority? It also states that the Community must respond to the competitive challenges of the future. That is part of the charter's preamble. Is the Minister aware that a Select Committee of this House examined the principles of the charter and made a recommendation to the Government that they should cease their total opposition to it? In addition, the committee said that if the Government wanted to make improvements they should do so by negotiation rather than by outright opposition.

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the Government feel that the social charter is inconsistent with the agreement reached by all heads of state and governments at the Madrid meeting of the European Council in June 1989. The agreement was that job creation and development should have top priority in the achievement of the single market. The Government also say that, despite the difficulties we have with the social charter, we shall play a full part in the negotiations on the individual proposals in the European Commission's action programme of measures to implement the charter.

§ Lord Allen of Abbeydale
My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is much in the social charter which is perfectly acceptable to this country? Does he further agree that it would have been much better if we had taken an active part in its preparation and put our difficulties forward instead of more or less standing on the sidelines and then grumbling at what eventually appeared?

§ Lord Strathclyde
No, my Lords, not really. We feel that there are some aspects of the action programme arising out of the social charter which we shall be able to accept. There is no point in signing up to 100 per cent. of an agreement which involves a programme that we simply could not accept.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the social charter condemns the closed shop and yet the Opposition have been very much in favour of retaining an element of the closed shop in this country? How can they support the charter in one factor and yet disagree with it in another?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I understand that it was the Labour Party's approval of the social charter which has now caused it so much confusion about where it stands on the issue of the closed shop.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, will the noble Lord acknowledge that the key sentence in the social charter relating to employee involvement states: Information, consultation and participation of workers must be developed along appropriate lines and in such a way as to take account of the laws, contractual agreements and practices in the member states"?> Is that not an admirable expression of the Government's own view? Should they not, therefore, warmly welcome it?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, that is why, as individual proposals come out of the Commission's action programme, we shall definitely be playing a full part in negotiations.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I and many other people are not prepared to allow major issues which affect the lives and working conditions of the British working people to be decided in Brussels? Is he also aware that many of the issues and many of the policies which are likely to be imposed by Brussels will be complete anathema to many in the Labour Party and, indeed, to most people in the trade unions?

§ Lord Ennals
Not so!

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
I do not know how my noble friend on the Front Bench knows about that. He has very little contact with the trade unions and, therefore, he really would not know.
Further can the noble Lord say, bearing in mind the fact that Mrs. Papandreou is behind this attempt to impose the social charter throughout the EC, whether Greece, which was a signatory to the 1960 social charter of the Council of Europe, has accepted and fully implemented that charter?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very valid point. One of the steps we have taken is to ensure that implementation is fully recorded by the European Commission and that it reports regularly to the Council of Ministers to advise member states on exactly how implementation is progressing.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the TUC General Council, of which I was until recently a member, has given unanimous support to the principles of the social charter? Is he also aware that our party on this side of the House has also supported those principles?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I am glad to hear the noble Baroness state that point. It confirms what my noble friend Lord Orr-Ewing said; namely, that the Labour Party has now rejected the principle of the closed shop.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, the Minister has already said that the Government accept some aspects of the social charter. Therefore, to enable us to understand what their policy is, can he tell the House which aspects they support and which they do not?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, we understand that there will be some proposals on health and safety at work which we shall be quite willing to discuss in the most positive way. However, there are other proposals on part-time work which we feel would be detrimental to the employment prospects of people working in this country.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, can the Minister say what legal advice the Government have received on the possibility of the charter becoming European law by majority vote? Further, can he say, in the event of it becoming law, whether they will reconsider some of their comments on the issue?

§ Lord Strathclyde
No, my Lords. The charter itself if not legally enforceable; it is simply a political declaration. It is from the social charter that the Commission has set up its action programmes. Their legal base will be decided on individual merits.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I am one of those who support the closed shop principle, but that fact is not to be confused with the views of the Labour Party?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I am sure that the whole House has heard the noble Lord's view.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is the Minister aware that there have always been elements in the Conservative Party who have objected to any restrictions on employment ever since they regretted the stopping of the practice of little boys jumping up chimneys?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, that simply shows that we are a party which is committed to freedom of discussion.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, with regard to the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, in which he suggested that the charter was a prescription for higher inflation and unemployment, can the Minister say what the inflation and unemployment rates are in those countries which have accepted the principles of the charter?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, this country has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the European Community. Our youth unemployment is below half the average in the European Community. Those statistics speak for themselves.