HL Deb 08 February 1990 vol 515 cc945-7

3.15 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether English is increasingly becoming the main language used internationally in information technology and what encouragement they will give to British industry to take advantage of such a development.

The Minister of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, English is generally accepted as the main working language in information technology. That stems from the fact that the major programming languages are of American and British origin. As United Kingdom firms themselves recognise, this gives them something of a natural advantage.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply, in the light of which does he not agree that British industry should be able to benefit, since international companies make their recruits in this field undertake courses in English when it is not their native tongue, and Japanese is still little used in this field outside Japan?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, my noble friend is quite right. There is a very considerable demand for expert and particularly experienced programmers in this field. Clearly, if they speak English, and especially if English is their mother tongue, they have a head start.

Lord Winstanley

My Lords, does the Minister agree that we are perhaps overlooking something rather important? Is it not a fact that children in Germany and France (and in Japan, for that matter) are not now taught English but are taught American? Is it not also a fact that companies in Britain which provide translation services, translating from any language into any other language but in the main specialising in translating technical papers and journals, now tell us that much of their work comprises translation from English into American? That is not for American clients but for the Europeans, Japanese and others who insist on having English technical publications translated into American. If the Minister can do anything to reverse that trend, I for one would be very grateful.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, as one who undertook part of his education in the United States, I sympathise with the noble Lord's view. However, it is important that documentation relating to particular products meets precisely the requirements of the customer, and that depends very much on his background.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, in view of what has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Winstanley, will the Minister confirm that it is a role of the British Council (which I believe it carries out very well all over the world) to promote English as it is spoken in Britain?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, yes, indeed. The British Council does extremely good and important work in this area. Some 66,000 people were taking advantage of British Council services last year, if my memory serves me right. It is a business worth some £25 million.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the premise of the noble Lord's Question and his supplementary question as well as the Minister's Answer is correct? One grants that English is the major language for international business, but is it not true that the language for information technology is the language of electronic data processing? In other words, if I may use shorthand, it is computer language. Will he agree that the basis of that language is mathematics and that we should concentrate on education in mathematics in that regard?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, there is a difference between the language which a computer uses to talk to itself (if I may describe it in that way) and the language which a computer uses to talk to its user; namely, the language that appears on the screen. The language that the computer talks to itself is highly technical. It is not English or any other language known to the noble Lord or to myself. However, it is important that the computer's capability puts it in a position to talk to all its different customers, whether they speak Japanese, English or any other language.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, will the Minister agree, in the light of his reply to the noble Lord, that my Question was concerned with the spoken languages and not with the technicalities of mathematical computer languages?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am grateful for that clarification.

Lord Pym

My Lords, I should declare an interest as chairman of the English Speaking Union. Does my noble friend agree that at this point in history, when such enormous changes are taking place, there ought to be an increase in our own investment in teaching and spreading the English language by means of the British Council and through the World Service of the BBC? Does he further agree that it would be quite wrong to sit on our laurels complacently content with the present levels and that if we were to make such a further investment the return would be very handsome indeed?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, my noble friend is quite right. I dare say that he is talking about Eastern Europe. He will have heard of the know-how fund that has recently been established by the British Government. Among other things it will be able to provide additional language training.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, will the Minister indicate whether the phrase "sitting on one's laurels" is English or American?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I seem to recall that laurels were a peculiarly Roman institution.